SMACKDOWN

[Archael]

I think you lost me


- Statistically improbable designed universe may happen via a method
- Statistically improbable designed universe is improbable
- Statistically improbable designed universe is not impossible
- Therefor, statistically improbable designed universe does not and cannot prove existence of g0d?

that's what I'm getting, but I don't understand it

TL;DR: Just because our universe had say, a .0000001% chance of forming the way it needed to in order to support life, and then have intelligent life evolve from it, does not prove or disprove the existence of any higher being because statistically improbable != impossible and requiring intelligent design of that caliber, simply because it is possible on a technical level for it to happen without said intelligent design.

Clearer?

yeah I think I get it now, I just felt like there was a rather big leap from this

- Statistically improbable designed universe may happen via a method
- Statistically improbable designed universe is improbable
- Statistically improbable designed universe is not impossible

to this

- Therefor, statistically improbable designed universe does not and cannot prove existence of g0d

the conclusion should be something like

- Therefor, statistically improbable designed universe does not necessarily prove existence of any designer

 I guess

 

[philsov]

nor does statistically improbable universe necessitate a designer.  And if a designer is not necessitated, then for the purpose of thought clarity he can be removed from the picture since it is both irrelevant and excessive.  It's like asking if the designer had a designer.

Most designer pundits say that the universe crossed over the coincidence threshold, saying certain events/outcomes are "too complex" to have happened by chance, but then again for some people the same thing can be said about a microwave oven....  HOT POCKET IS DONE!  THANK $DEITY!  IT'S A MAGICAL MIRACLE.

btw every time I hear the clock analogy I throw up a little.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

- Therefore, statistically improbable designed universe does not and cannot prove existence of g0d

- Therefore, statistically improbable designed universe does not necessarily prove existence of any designer

The bottom line is that since it could have all happen by chance, design can prove nothing.  Perhaps, it could imply but it cannot prove.  Because there is another option readily available, it cannot and will not prove existence of God.  I don't see the jump here that you speak of.  To use philsov's loathed example of Paley's watch in a perverted form, if a watch could be explained to have been made by random chance (no matter how small that chance), then we cannot say with complete certainty that a watchmaker exists.  I guess we should note that this random chance does not say with any certainty that a watchmaker doesn't exist, either.

I hope I was clearer this time around.  If not, oh well.

For those of our audience that don't know the Paley's watch analogy:
Watch = Universe
Watchmaker = God (or whatever higher being/reality/intelligence you want call it)

[philsov]

my shoes

[Samuraiblackbelt]

Came into this thread expecting wrestling, left disappointed.

[DarthPaul]

The bottom line is that since it could have all happen by chance, design can prove nothing. Perhaps, it could imply but it cannot prove.

I would just like to interject this. A wise man once said that the chances of anything that has happened are 100%. Meaning religions "there was a low probability" argument can go to metaphorical hell.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

Creationist argument against that would be that the low probabilty event didn't happen, therefore the 100% would mean nothing to them.

[DarthPaul]

Creationist argument against that would be that the low probabilty event didn't happen, therefore the 100% means nothing.

Hence the "metaphorical hell" part. I make sure to cover my bases.

[Asmo X]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA6fWoXIh-k

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

Hence the "metaphorical hell" part. I make sure to cover my bases.

Gotcha. I overlooked that. My Bad.

[Kaijyuu]

hai guyz i liekz talking bout religion how bout u

[Mental_Gear]

Atheist reassurance topic #351...

[Luiakyn]

I was hoping Asmo's post was awesome enough to make everyone wary about posting

[Dome]

These discussion of religion are worse than a fat ugly bitch that roped you and want to suck your cock on sunday morning after you drunk too much
P.s: Thanks Asmo that you actually posted something related to wrestling...

[Archael]

Atheist reassurance topic #351...

no

ID debunking topic #1

once again, atheism is not a belief that requires "reassurance" of faith in it

atheism is the lack of belief in theistic claims, more specifically, the g0d claims

the only "reassurance" in the atheist position (especially the agnostic atheist like myself) is the complete lack of evidence for theistic claims (ID) presented so far

evidence for theistic claims would make me re-consider my lack of belief

[Aquilae]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA6fWoXIh-k

[Archael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkEl_R0dTfY

[Kokojo]

Dance dance rocket baby slim shady is here with you in his teeths wee!