Things you always wanted to say

[degrofm]

Fine. I'll rebuttal Arch's post.

atheism isn't an opinion, it is what everyone is born as (yourself included), it is the default lack of any religious beliefs that we have as animals - before they ram religious / cultural fairy tales down YOUR throat since you were young

Right. It wouldn't be an opinion. More accurately, it would be lack of opinion, because you're born ignorant.

I'm not entirely sure that that rebuts Arch's post.

[Asmo X]

- People should look at how much medical care sucks in Britain and Canada before they talk about socializing health care

HAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAA





AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAH.

I had no idea we had one of those drum-beating "socialism" fuckheads on the forums and what's more they actually believe health care in Britain and Canada is a failure. Even if it was, notice how this guy leaves out France as one of the countries with "socialist" health care. Or Sweden. Or Italy. Or Spain. Government health care doesn't look quite so bad when you don't cherry pick which examples you use.

[AngrySurprisedFace]

- People should look at how much medical care sucks in Britain and Canada before they talk about socializing health care

HAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAA





AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAAHAH.

I had no idea we had one of those drum-beating "socialism" fuckheads on the forums and what's more they actually believe health care in Britain and Canada is a failure. Even if it was, notice how this guy leaves out France as one of the countries with "socialist" health care. Or Sweden. Or Italy. Or Spain. Government health care doesn't look quite so bad when you don't cherry pick which examples you use.

<3

[philsov]

that business is not evil

Buh?

Sorry, but no.

Acid Runoff Iron Mountain Mine Superfund Site

The largest point source of highly toxic heavy metals in the nation feeds Spring Creek. The Iron Mountain Superfund site also releases the most highly acidic mine runoff on earth, running up to 100 times the concentration of battery acid. This acid drainage stains rocks with toxic heavy metal rich precipitates. The Iron Mountain mine ripped open the side of a mountain in search of iron silver, gold, copper, zink and pyrite. The abandoned mine left highly reactive iron pyrite exposed to the elements. Iron pyrite reacts with oxygen and water to form sulfuric acid. This causes massive leaching of heavy metals from the rock and soil it passes. Due to extreme toxicity to fish, a treatment plant and holding dam collect and reduce toxicity of the polluted rainwater. At times of sufficient flow in the Sacramento River the collected water is released. This alows high flows to dilute the toxic compounds enough that endangered salmon are not killed for miles downstream.  Nearly one billion dollars will be paid by Aventis CropSciences USA, Inc. for cleanup efforts durring the next 30 years.

If health codes, building codes, the FDA, the EPA, BBB, and other such laws/agencies didn't exist, a large number of businesses would forego the expenses in order to make things safe, clean, and produce minimal longterm environmental impact.  The only check prior to the creation of these things was either good old fashioned vigilantism (done after the fact) or people simply refusing business to said shady SOB  -- also realized after the fact -- after the served food was partially rotten, after the contaminated water destroyed the fish crop,  after the crappy materials caused the house to dilapidate etc etc etc.  

Business, by nature, has the primary goal of increasing revenue and cutting costs, and in terms of pure cash flow one can sweep a LOT under the rug and by the time people realize what happened you're set in the bahamas or dead.

IRS, on the other hand, is just a collection agency.    Don't hate the agency, hate where the funds go (sometimes) and why the collection is occurring in the first place.

- People should study the soviet union in order to figure out just why communism sucks

"Once in power, the Bolsheviks immediately withdrew Russia from the First World War, established workers' control in the factories, legalised divorce, installed universal suffrage, granted freedom and self-determination to national minorities, carried out major land reforms in the interest of poor peasants, initiated mass literacy campaigns, assisted the restoration of oppressed religious minorities, decriminalised homosexuality, separated the church and the state, began the task of eliminating homelessness and "freed" women from the burden of housework by setting up communal kitchens, laundries and free nurseries for children. Many of their progressive policies such as the decriminalisation of homosexuality were however reverted once Stalin assumed power."

It's not all bad, socially speaking :p

- People should realize that Bush wasn't that bad, and that Obama is causing irreparable damage

Damage like what, exactly?

- People should look at how much medical care sucks in Britain and Canada before they talk about socializing health care

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_in_France

If the term "socialized" is incorrect, then whatever the hell that is labeled seems like a pretty good path to take imo.

and that conservatives want less taxes and the ability for a person to manage his own life.

Did you completely forget about the entire sect of uptight moral conservatives, who are ALL FOR government power controlling other people's lives?  Fiscal conservatives, sure, but if you're going to lump hippies and anarchists with the liberals (anarchists that want more government, go figure), at least be aware of the hypocrisy.

[Silent One]

Well then, go to one of those European countries with the health care you so love. And when it takes you a month to get any medical attention, because of non-tax paying, non-working, probably-on-welfare people who clog up the system, perhaps you can see why people FROM THEIR complain about it.

I'm not cherry picking examples, I'm just picking the ones Americans would be most familiar with.

[philsov]

Well then, go to one of those European countries with the health care you so love

Yes, let's drop all social connections, employments, education, learn a new language, apply for green cards/visas/citizenship, and start our lives complete over just so we can get better healthcare.    

Or... we can hopefully change the current system into something better.  

Gee.  

I can't decide.

[degrofm]

Well then, go to one of those European countries with the health care you so love, and when it takes you a month to get any medical attention, because of non-tax paying, non-working, probably-on-welfare people who clog up the system.

I'm not cherry picking examples, I'm just picking the ones Americans would be most familiar with.

That's a rational reaction. "Hey, you like this thing that this other country has, so why don't you leave the country you currently live in, and move to that other country?"

Also, the second half of that sentence doesn't make any grammatical sense. I'm expecting some sort of finishing thought, since "when it takes you a month to get any medical attention" has the feel of an incomplete thought to me. Instead I find a nonessential clause that isn't set off from the rest of the sentence properly.

[degrofm]

Well then, go to one of those European countries with the health care you so love

Yes, let's drop all social connections, employments, education, learn a new language, apply for green cards/visas/citizenship, and start our lives complete over just so we can get better healthcare.    

Or... we can hopefully change the current system into something better.  

Gee.  

I can't decide.

Philsov, the more of your posts that I read, the more of a fan of yours I become.

[Silent One]

that business is not evil

Buh?

Sorry, but no.

Acid Runoff Iron Mountain Mine Superfund Site

The largest point source of highly toxic heavy metals in the nation feeds Spring Creek. The Iron Mountain Superfund site also releases the most highly acidic mine runoff on earth, running up to 100 times the concentration of battery acid. This acid drainage stains rocks with toxic heavy metal rich precipitates. The Iron Mountain mine ripped open the side of a mountain in search of iron silver, gold, copper, zink and pyrite. The abandoned mine left highly reactive iron pyrite exposed to the elements. Iron pyrite reacts with oxygen and water to form sulfuric acid. This causes massive leaching of heavy metals from the rock and soil it passes. Due to extreme toxicity to fish, a treatment plant and holding dam collect and reduce toxicity of the polluted rainwater. At times of sufficient flow in the Sacramento River the collected water is released. This alows high flows to dilute the toxic compounds enough that endangered salmon are not killed for miles downstream.  Nearly one billion dollars will be paid by Aventis CropSciences USA, Inc. for cleanup efforts durring the next 30 years.

If health codes, building codes, the FDA, the EPA, BBB, and other such laws/agencies, a large number of businesses would forego the expenses in order to make things safe, clean, and produce minimal longterm environmental impact.  The only check prior to the creation of these things was either good old fashioned vigilantism (done after the fact) or people simply refusing business to said shady SOB  -- also realized after the fact -- after the served food was partially rotten, after the contaminated water destroyed the fish crop,  after the crappy materials caused the house to dilapidate etc etc etc.  

Business, by nature, has the primary goal of increasing revenue and cutting costs, and in terms of pure cash flow one can sweep a LOT under the rug and by the time people realize what happened you're set in the bahamas or dead.

IRS, on the other hand, is just a collection agency.    Don't hate the agency, hate where the funds go (sometimes) and why the collection is occurring in the first place.

- People should study the soviet union in order to figure out just why communism sucks

"Once in power, the Bolsheviks immediately withdrew Russia from the First World War, established workers' control in the factories, legalised divorce, installed universal suffrage, granted freedom and self-determination to national minorities, carried out major land reforms in the interest of poor peasants, initiated mass literacy campaigns, assisted the restoration of oppressed religious minorities, decriminalised homosexuality, separated the church and the state, began the task of eliminating homelessness and "freed" women from the burden of housework by setting up communal kitchens, laundries and free nurseries for children. Many of their progressive policies such as the decriminalisation of homosexuality were however reverted once Stalin assumed power."

It's not all bad, socially speaking :p

- People should realize that Bush wasn't that bad, and that Obama is causing irreparable damage

Damage like what, exactly?

- People should look at how much medical care sucks in Britain and Canada before they talk about socializing health care

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_in_France

If the term "socialized" is incorrect, then whatever the hell that is labeled seems like a pretty good path to take imo.

and that conservatives want less taxes and the ability for a person to manage his own life.

Did you completely forget about the entire sect of uptight moral conservatives, who are ALL FOR government power controlling other people's lives?  Fiscal conservatives, sure, but if you're going to lump hippies and anarchists with the liberals (anarchists that want more government, go figure), at least be aware of the hypocrisy.

Wow, lets take this on one at a time.

1a. These things about business are often blown way out of proportion. Did you know for example, the Erin Brokovich case was proven false?

1b. The IRS is positively demonic. They care nothing about the hard working taxpayer. They go after the upper middle class with extreme vigor. The IRS will pursue taxes past a person's death (perhaps suicide because of the inevitability of financial ruin because of taxes) and proceed to ruin a person's family who are already suffering from that person's death. It;s amazing how people don't realize that a person who makes 150,000 dollars a year with 140,000 dollars of debt has the same amount of money as a person who makes 40,000 dollars a year with 30,000 dollars of debt... But the person with the "low income" has soooo many more options to help them out...

2. I never said that pre-soviet union Russia was any good either. The Nazi's did a lot of good for Germany. Are you going to say that they had a good system?
Perhaps you like being told the career path you will take. Perhaps you think it is right for a doctor to make as much money as a factory worker. What do you think happens when everybody makes the same no matter what they do? They only work hard enough to not get fired, which with the labor unions, is not very hard at all.

3. Obama has raised the national debt by a massive amount. His plans for the economy will only hurt the country as a whole.

4. By socialized health care I mean the government payment to people who can't afford it on their own. In some cases, there are people who just got unlucky, but a lot of lazy non contributing morons would take advantage of free health care. At tax payer's expense. The government will pay for people who "can't afford it" probably people making less than 50,000 dollars per year. The middle class will still have to pay their own way even if they have a mountain of debt that the great Obama has promised would go away. Once again, the middle class gets screwed.

5. Uptight moral conservatives don't speak for us all. Many of us actually believe in separation of church and state. Many of us are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. But, we are the ones who want lower taxes. Explain how lower taxes equals more government? I just don't understand how people who hate the government can support the people trying to give it more power.

[philsov]

1a) Out of proportion or not, these things DO occur.  I'm all for a parental figure looming over private businesses.  

1b) The IRS is still not the one to blame.  Blame congress.

2)  I... am agreeing with you loudly!?

3) The worst irony is that McCain proposed the exact same bailouts if elected.  As I see it, it doesn't matter which political affiliation was rocked, the deficit was going to skyrocket regardless.  Only differences are the pundits and their blind followers that praise/shun the poor guy.

4) So then there needs to be a way to remove the parasites but actually provide the industrious poor with medical care.

5)  Buh?  I'm just barking up the semantic tree.  Moral legislation and enforcement leads to more government. It doesn't get simpler than that.

[Asmo X]

Typical self-centered bullshit that just reinforces the conservative stereotype. Who are you to say how many people are just in hospitals to "clog it up"? What is this based on? Are they getting treatment for imaginary complaints? Can't a doctor tell?

I don't need to go to some European country to get health care. I have it here in Australia. I had a general checkup last year and the doctor found suspicious symptoms with my head and heart. I had blood tests, an ultrasound, a CT and a chest x-ray and 2 appointments with the doctor and it came to the grand total of $180. We have this system because, in a very market-like way, we demanded affordable health care. Thats the great irony of opposing a government system only based on this churning sludge of stupid buzzwords like "socialism". You are gazing outwards, away from your self-interest, which the market thrives on, and that's a great way to ensure your system will not serve you properly.

[Vanya]

...BULLSHIT...

Now that's how you ask for a shower of (un)holy liberal flaming!

...probably people making less than 50,000 dollars per year.

Where the fuck do you live that makes 50k middle class?
Not in this economy is that middle.

...a lot of lazy non contributing morons would take advantage of free health care. At tax payer's expense.

You say that as if that weren't already the case. Why the hell do you think premiums are so high? It isn't JUST greed. It's because the cost for ppl that go to the emergency room with no insurance gets passed on to the insured. Since hospitals are private businesses whose goal is to turn a profit do you really think the hospital CEOs are gonna spend profit on the uninsured?
That's what a lot of conservatives like to ignore. Also, the fact that billions of dollars get sucked out of the system by Insurance Profit. I'm no economist, but I know this. Before Bush privatized Social Security my mother didn't have to pay for most of her medications, but now she can't afford most of her medications and has to co-pay pretty much all of them.

And, on a similar note, what the fuck is up with insurance companies covering Erectile Dysfunction medication, but not contraceptives and Birth Control? That there is one of the many benefits of private Health Insurance, coverage for what's popular instead of what is necessary or preventive.

Fuck the status quo! You can keep that shit. >=P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snhiofL2Rh4


PPL! Stop paying your credit debt beyond what you originally spent! Credit scores are just made up economic bullshit! Show these greedy fucks who has the real power around here! If even 30% of the ppl who have debt stopped paying it the banks and low-life collection companies would take a shit right there. The people need to exercise there rights to force what is fair from time to time.

Did you guys know that once you default on a debt and it is sold to a collection company you have no obligation to pay that debt? They never told us that shit did they!? As long as you don't agree to pay it they have no right to collect it and no debt can lower your credit score more than  once. If any of you guys fall on hard times and the collectors come knocking just remember this. I had 2 credit cards that went south, then the collectors started up. When I found out about this technicality I starting the debt collectors that bought my credit debt to go fuck themselves and suddenly the phone calls started falling away. An account can pass through only so many companies before other debt collectors start shying away from it.

[Mental_Gear]

Am I the only one who sleeps at peak FFH time?

[dwib]

Asmo - You're a badass
People who wear Naruto headbands in public - Stop it
People who play WOW - Stop it
People who RP - Stop it
People who don't play sports without a legitimate excuse - get off your ass
Athiests and Liberals who think they're better than everyone else because of their idealology - Who gives a fuck if I'm a conservative Christian. I'm perfectly happy with you guys the way you are and you should be happy with me. We're all people. And hell even though I'm conservative I don't like Glenn Beck so don't throw "nutcase" shit down my throat either cause there are people like that on both sides, and yes he's one of them, and yes I realize that. If you want to see someone with a political midset I tend to agree with watch some of John Stossel's stuff.

- People should realize that Bush wasn't that bad

I agree with this. People blew the negatives of his administration way out of proportion. It goes to show that some liberals are just as nutty as conservatives. For example... the conspiracy theories that Bush planned (or was a part of) 9/11. Who in their fucked up mind would think something like that?

4) So then there needs to be a way to remove the parasites but actually provide the industrious poor with medical care.

How about a cheap government healthcare option that provides people with the very very basic healthcare benefits that they must pay into. It would be just like an insurance company, but cheap and accessable to everyone, and more importantly, it will be theoretically fair (as most insurance companies are said to be greedy and evil and all that jazz). By having them still pay into their own cheap, indiscriminite system, or even have the option of payment plans if they are going through hard times, it would prevent people who are happy with their healthcare from having to pay for someone else's.

[Kaijyuu]

I'm not entirely sure that that rebuts Arch's post.

Well, it'd be impossible to "entirely rebut" it, since he's right that we're born without knowledge of religion and that we learn of it/get it shoved down our throat later in life.

My point was that no knowledge of religion =/= atheism. If you're ignorant of the issue, you don't have an opinion. If you're conscious of it, you do.



@healthcare stuff

Can't wait for a better healthcare system. I'd prefer it being more socialized than what's happening right now, though.

[Kokojo]

2. I never said that pre-soviet union Russia was any good either. The Nazi's did a lot of good for Germany. Are you going to say that they had a good system?
Perhaps you like being told the career path you will take. Perhaps you think it is right for a doctor to make as much money as a factory worker. What do you think happens when everybody makes the same no matter what they do? They only work hard enough to not get fired, which with the labor unions, is not very hard at all.

The doctors did make more money than a factory worker, just so you know.

It's so funny this is in spam.

[Jumza]

Global warming is a myth.

[Mental_Gear]

Back on topic...

PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid
PSP Go is stupid

Yeah. I don't really like the PSP Go.

[Fusso]

We should change the name of this topic to "Arena Of Egos"

and by the way, i don't speak about religion... i feel like killing a kitty with an axe when i debate this subject with someone who still believes in imaginary friends

of course, a lot of rednecks in here
you americans are funny, you got one of the worst health system in the world (and the worst among the 10 richest countries) and the only guy who had the balls to do something is being stoned in public square

way to go uncle sam!

i feel sorry for the half of you that can think outside of your own bellybutton, it must be very hard to live in a christian and conservative based society

[Mental_Gear]

Hey, Fusso, where you from?