Patch Proposals/Ideas Thread

[Sephiel]

Well, at the end of Chapter 2, I can make put more fights with Wiegraf in the team in which he shows more of his sorrow about Milleuda's death... Here's the idea. One year later, he is hunted down, and is hunting Ramza to find revenge... At the end of a fight, we see him alone in the battlefield, and he has a burst of anger... Well, not really fitting to Wiegraf's character I think, but it is a beginning. After he joins the Church we play a little as him, until the Brigade Leader resurrects the Brigade...
And yes, the Wiegraf-Milleuda relationship will be shown on a new... Well, it will be shown. Because all we see from their relationship is... nothing. If we don't count Wiegraf's behavior after her death.

Having Wiegraf's followers being Celia and Lettie would be great indeed, but I wonder if putting humans wouldn't be better. For tragicness...

About specials, the Leader will be one, and he may have a friend who will be a special. Besides, what about Chapter 1 Wiegraf skillset ? I feel giving him access to too much of the Holy Knight skillset to early would be stupid, so using two different White Knight classes would be okay...

And to finish, can someone give me by PM the latest tactext editor, (I see many talk about it, but every link leading to it is broken) and... well, I forgot what the other thing was...

[mav]

Well the game gives the reason he was compatible with Belias "his despair and resentment called to him". I'm sure Rofel and Vormav knew this as well, hence the reason they brought him on board. My guess is that Miluda's death really affected Wiegraf much  more then he lets on, though it might have been those bottled feelings, that really stretched it's hand out to Velius.

Very well put LD. I don't think FFT touched on this heavily, but for a more Wiegraf-centric story to take place, Mileuda's death, the ensuing despair, and Wiegraf's eventual resentment should be key elements.

As for your conclusions regarding Loffrey, I can understand where you're coming from. Perhaps it is a stretch for Loffrey to be an Ultima Demon, but I think it's undeniable that he has a different aura about himself than some of the others...and didn't Ramza also specifically mention that he sensed the same evil about Loffrey as he did for Celia and Lettie? Anyhow, your analysis fits, so whatever.

[DarthPaul]

I feel the theory about Rofel being an Ultima Demon as flawed. If he were he would have transformed, rather then simply died the way he did, Ramza remarks about Rofel being "not human" but I think he means "not human" in the same way Balk was brought back rather then being an Ultima Demon, he also says something similar to Algus in WoTL.

This or he is stating that he is "not human" in the way that you would refer to say a spartan. I think he was referring to Rofel's sheer power without merging with the Lucavi. In a sense he has "inhuman" fierceness and power.

[Vanya]

The way I see it is that Ramza's comment points to either Loffrey being a demon himself or that he is the one that summoned Celia, Ledde and possibly all the other demon-type monsters the player encounters. Personally I like the idea of him being a demon like C&D.

[LastingDawn]

Heh, interesting case Darth Paul, but I'm afraid there's a bit to contradict that, he only says that before you fight Rofel, he would have no reason to say that, as he hadn't measured his strength much at all, except at Murond Holy Place, where... well they aren't two threatening.

The other contradiction is...

Rofel: I've been waiting for you, Ramza. That's far enough!
Rest eternally beneath this monastery!

Ramza: This feeling...same as when I fought Celia and Lede!!
You are not human.

Rofel: No, I am not...I've risen above humans... I have
obtained eternal life with the help of Vormav's power... Hee,
hee, hee... You can't understand the joy.

Ramza: What are you trying to do? What do you want?

Rofel: Do you really want to know, Ramza? If you do, then
you'll have to beat me. That is, if you can...

Which he basically says is the same as when he was fighting Celia and Lede, which were the First Two humanoid Abnormalities, (other then the Lucavi and Demons) he had fought.

Ramza: There is something familiar in this. Something reminiscent of our battle
with Celia and Lettie. You are no mortal man.

Loffrey: No, that I am not. I am something far greater. Folmarv has made it
possible for me to leave behind ignorance, the frailty of the flesh. I am given
the gift of life eternal. A joy you can never know.

Ramza: What drives you to do what you do? What is it you seek?

Loffrey: Questions...so many questions. But your search for answers is in vain.
They wait beyond me, forever beyond your reach!

In both his text points to his case being the Exact Same as Balk, he says similar things about it, a demon wouldn't have to beg immortality, he already is immortal. Celia and Lede never speak of such a thing, then again they hardly speak at all...

[DarthPaul]

Good points, I admit to a slight ignorance of the dialogue in his battle as I always rushed him. Though he makes it sounds as either he merged with a Lucavi (which I doubt, as you do too it seems) or the stone can grant immortality by turning one into a demon. If he started out human then became a demon, it would make sense for him not to become one before he died. Hence the Celia and Lede case.

[mav]

Ah, very enlightening, LD. By the way, where are you getting the scripts from? It'd be quite useful for personal analysis...

Anyhow, those quotes are crucial to understanding Loffrey. If anything he's in the same league as a few of the others, like Balk. He's risen above humanity, in a sense. Is this something exclusive to the Templar?

[LastingDawn]

Scripts are from gamefaqs.com, under Final Fantasy Tactics and War of the Lions respectively. What I really do like about the case is that it shows more of random characters, he doesn't lose his cool but simply asks Rofel what his end goal is, even knowing that he is no longer human, he still thought to speak with him in a civil manner, Rofel does not respond in kind though.

Also the first time you hear the babble of being "more then human" is from Draclau... which unfortunately the makers of the script on gamefaqs missed. Alright only WoTL for this reference I guess... Or not, wow... then again I guess in the normal game it's almost difficult to get Ramza down to 50% HP to initiate the conversation in the Queklain fight.

[Dominic NY18]

Anyways, I'm not diving fully into it all, as I'm sure there's been some progress in the way of story-editing. I just don't have time for that, but I am finding myself with some time to make something worth-wild (I hope).

Someone mentioned elsewhere about making Bard & Dancer require level 2 Squire and branching out from there with a tree for males and females, much like the Tactics Ogre game. I found this an inviting concept, so I ended up with a job tree like this;

Code Select Expand

Squire --2--> Bard/Dancer

Bard --2--> Knight
Dancer --2--> Chemist

Chemist --2--> Archer, White Mage
Knight --2--> Monk

Bard --3--> Black Mage

White Mage --2--> Time Mage
Archer --2--> Thief
Black Mage --2--> Oracle/Mystic
Monk --2--> Geomancer

Time Mage --3--> Mediator/Orator
Thief --3--> Lancer/Dragoon
Geomancer --3--> Samurai
Lancer/Dragon --3--> Ninja
Mystic/Oracle --3--> Summoner

Squire --8--> Calculator (Mage Sword)

I am in need for some suggestions that hopefully strike a cord within my inspiration though. Above all, for the Bard and Dancer, since I hate to see their skills introduced so early in the game. Any other ideas are welcomed as well. The only other tad-bits I have to give is that I plan on changing Ramza's job from Squire to Knight/Guardian/Fire Storm and that the new job points are as follows;

Code Select Expand

Level 1: 300
Level 2: 600
Level 3: 900
Level 4: 1200
Level 5: 1500
Level 6: 1800
Level 7: 2100
Level 8: 9999


[SilvasRuin]

I think you might should move the Mage Sword over to the male's side.  It's a bit lopsided otherwise.  It also looks weird to have the male side branch one job earlier than the female side.

I don't know how each class can be altered without screwing things up, but if you could place Geomancer's stubborn skillset on the Bard and basically swap the two, that would be helpful in starting that side off.  Geomancers are hybrids after all.  You could put the Geomancer turned Bard somewhere on the magic line, assuming the switch between the two is possible.  The Mage Sword could be unlocked through Summoner and Samurai.

With females, you could see about swapping the ability list of Chemist and Dancer.  Females have less hybrid types... hm...  you could try statting Dancer as a hybrid.  Ninja and Orator are feasible requirements, not that the vanilla requirements made all that much sense in some areas to begin with.  That should even up the two sides fairly nicely, I think.  Males would ironically wind up favoring magic and females would wind up favoring physical.

[Sephiel]

I finally decided how I will do the Brigade Patch.
First, I'll work with classes, abilities, sprites... well, everything except the events/story. I'll make a patch that will use the changes, but with the vanilla story, in order to ensure that my changes are good...
Then, the story editing will take place, and after it will be done, I'll just have to combine the two steps to get the patch...
Is this a good idea ?
Of course, I won't work often, due to the fact that the only computer in my house is a family computer, but after october things may go way faster...

[LastingDawn]

Yes, that is the way to go! If you do one without the other things could get quite confusing. We already have an overview so that's enough of a storybase to work off of.

[Sephiel]

So, I'll begin working on some things, like preparing skillsets, names, effects and all the rest... Then, I'll have to jump into the animations... From what I've seen, I feel like I will suffer a little to understand all these things...
Well, I'll prepare a topic about the patch, very complete, with all the changes planned, and then I'll try to work !
(BTW, if someone want to help me, all help is welcome :p)
(PS : Thanks for your help LastingDawn, and good luck for Mercenaries, I feel like this patch will be a very enjoyable experience to play =))

[Eddie]

Hi everyone.

I'm new here and I wanted to introduce myself. I have been playing FFT since it came out. I love this game and have played the game lots of time and done a couple challenges. After seeing the 1.3 version (I think should be the standard FFT) I was hooked again on my favorite game.

I have little editing/hacking experience. I want to use it to learn some basics and experiment, so I can start my patch.

My plan is to make another take on the story behind the game. The main character would Izlude. I always found him to be a noble character (if he hadn't died he was going to join Ramza 100%). Naturally the plot will need a mayor rewriting. If anyone has additional information about Izlude, Vormav and Meliadoul please let me know.

I haven't done a complete outline of how I would like the new story to go. So most things are expected to change or be polished by the time I start writing.

The Izlude story
We know Delita did exist and he was King after the war; on the other hand. Ramza's story is unknown to most, so maybe he didn't stop the lucavi, maybe the true hero was another man (Insert Izlude here).

First battle will be with Izlude in his Temple Knight sprite, Meliadoul will replace Agrias. The two sibblings will be in your party most of the game. This script for this battle will have to be completly redone.

Chapter 1

You start as a young Izlude in the Church Knight Academy. The intro is all about the good things done by the church in the war and how its pure awesome and goodness. It also mentions the great heros Draucla, Vormav and others. Then a Priest goes in and tells you that since most of the church army is mobilized the cadets are helping nearby a town that got attacked by bandits. He also tells Izlude he will lead the group to end with "go and make Ajora and your Father proud!"

After the first battle the game goes to the Balbanes scene. Here will see Vormav in his death bed, Meliadoul in Zalbag's spot, and their Eldest brother in Alma's spot (Dycegards place will be empty). Izlude runs in and Vormav tells him to makes his family proud and follow into becoming a great chuch knight, and to be a good rightous man...

Algus will be replace with a high ranking church oficial that will join Izlude party. He will shot His brother at the end of the chapter. This will make him start doubting his faith.

Now about Vormav, he was a great hero from the war, his wasnt as big as the cardinal but he had quite a reputation. In his death bed he got a visit from his great friend the Cardinal. He gave him the Leo stone "a gift from the church, In hope of your health improving"

All the DC, Miluda, Wiegraff battles will be rewritten to match the story. They will be replaced by a group of heretics that want to expose some secrets from the church, not the truth about ajora, but smaller things that church has done wrong. The both the characters replacing Wiegraff and Miluda will know the truth behind Ajora; however, their group is more worried with lowering church taxation then Lucavi myths.

Chapters 2 3 4 and other ideas

I'm thinking about leaving Delita's part in acts 2 3 and 4 mostly unchanged. Just changing the lines a bit, and maybe have him say "you remind me of an old friend" would tie it into the plot. (when all the Izlude parts are finished I would like to edit it but that can be the final part)..

Other fun things we could see

- Ramza in Izlude's position, head crushed barely able to see, saying  Izlude was right. He died trying to stop Vormav from taking his sister.
- I might make a Rad a Dark Knight (Gafs Apprentice) a special char that joins after his friend Ramza dies.
- Izlude goes to Igros to tell the Beoulves that Ramza died fighting Lucavi, and that Alma was taken. Dycegard turns into a Zalera and Zalbag  (that suspected Balbanes death) joins the fight. After Zalera is defeated, Zalbag forsakes his family name and joins the party. His quest? to save his only living family member. Maybe we can even have a stone raise Zalbag

The Jobs system will be the same as the one in 1.3, with maybe 1 or 2 new jobs replacing bard/dancer and mime
   
Please leave comments and specially suggestions

[LastingDawn]

One thing about Izlude is he believed with 100% certainty what he was doing was right. He and Meliadoul were truly the children of a man loyal to his faith. I believe Vormav's wife was probably taken by an illness rather then a human. Regardless of the case both had the same effect. I'm personally glad to see that I'm not the only one that thought more on Vormav's character, hehe. Basically the same end I came to, his wife dies, goes mad with grief, the stone offers a solution and he succumbs. He had no reason to doubt a "Holy Stone", after all.

As for Izlude... he couldn't fight any Lucavi before a fleeting battle with Hashmalum. Also it would make no sense for Ramza saying "Izlude was right". Since by the point they would believe the same thing. Izlude is a very grey character, yet one of the best remembered. His lines are powerful and he represents a different path that Ramza might have taken (as so many other characters do...) he is blind to the church's wrongdoing, and believes that his family can bring peace through a subtle war. Once his father transforms and he somehow survives, I would bet that he wouldn't join Ramza, I think he would run to Funeral to tell him the news. Izlude is first and foremost loyal to the church.

Ramza was right About the Lucavi, this changes a few things but not everything. Meliadoul joins Ramza (I feel partially...) because the rest of her family was dead and she had to find out what had happened to her father. In my opinion you should have Ramza and Izlude split ways yet meet each other from time to time, killing Ramza and making Izlude the hero just seems cheap, he should stay to the side and assist where he can. Also Delita trusted and Only trusted Ramza, but Ramza and Delita had something special, they could predict eachother's moves. Delita is just Really lucky it was Ramza vs. Lucavi, not Ramza vs. Delita. They both countered each other wonderfully.

Ramza and Izlude on the other hand are a good pair to meet up with and talk and discuss plans for a while. Izlude strikes me as very independent. I think he would search for things his own way.

[Eddie]

Thanks for you insight. As I said the plot is still very experimental.

I do think Ramza will die trying to save Alma. That makes Zalbag joining more poetic.

This would be a different take on what happened behind the war. We now have the Durai papers telling the Story of Ramza, but just like the gospels in real life we have different versions of the same events. Maybe the Durai papers are just parcially true, and the true hero was Izlude.

I do have to say I love the Idea of having Ramza and Izlude meet on several occasions. The Delita part I really havent decided.

thanks again for your ideas

Ill make an more complete outline of chapter one in a couple days. Ill also start changing/chosing some sprites.

[Redux]

I have been thinking of developing a patch with my brother for quite a while. We are going to develop the job tree and skillsets first and foremost as well. The job tree is finished. Dancers, Bards, and Oracles are dead. Poor oracles. As a tiny taste for the patch here is the outline for the Red Mage:

Red Mage

Concept:
   
   This is not your daddy's Red Mage. It is a tweaked, and unique Red Mage. With the death of the Oracle, the Red mage will inherit a sample of Yin-Yang Magic along with a mix of Time, White, and Black Magic. This mage is adept at all, master of none. His time skills are limited to one skill, his black magic, though strong will pale in comparison to the real pointy-hatted mage. His white magicks will be simple healing, basic resurrection, and shell and protect. He will have good skills of all three without having all the essential abilities, like flare or esuna.
   What the Red Mage has up its sleeve is its ability to wield a variety of weapons, ranging from staves to rods, from swords to sticks. This versatility makes the red mage primary skill set even more attractive than just Red Magic secondary. While heavy armor use will have to be tested and decided on, the red mage will definitely have access to clothing and robes at the very least.   A mediocre mage with a variety of equipment, a variety of magic and a few spells unique to Red Magic.

Equipment: Hats, Clothing, Shields, Swords, Sticks, Rods, and Staves.
Skillset: (Red Magic <- working title)
Cure 2
Raise
Protect
Shell
Refresh
Bolt2
Ice2
Fire2
Bio
Slow
Mp Drain
Sleep


Rate, Hate, Pontificate? If requested I will spill the ideas for bard and dancer replacements.

[Sephiel]

Well, I was getting bored, so I wrote the (possibly) first scene of the patch...
If you want change it, then go on :p

[mav]

Sounds like a neat project, Alpha. If you can get it off the ground I'll be thoroughly impressed; it sounds a bit different from most proposed patches here, so you got that going for ya. Good luck with the coding.

[SilvasRuin]

I've been pondering the combination of certain gameplay elements and have been toying with them to see how I can make things fit.  I'd want to alter it from the original in most areas, but I've not even begun to learn how to use many of the resources, so progress on any fronts but the basic stuff would be slow indeed.  I'm not even starting on the basics in earnest yet, but felt like posting my musings on whim.  The key aspects of it would include:

Flat growths for all characters and jobs, except for gender/monster differences.
A reason for every job to be desirable to use rather than just the abilities.  (A different job tree is planned, of course.)
All monsters and armor bearing elemental weaknesses and resistances and all weapons bearing an element.
Multiple equipment of the same type falling on the same tier, providing more choices per tier but likely fewer tiers.
* Elements combined for simplicity and allowing the leftovers to provide specialty target abilities.  (i.e. like Sidewinder from FFTA, though I won't actually use that particular example)
A specialty for each of the "normal" elements.  Current leanings:  Fire, damage; Earth, AoE; Wind, range; Water, speed.
Rare/expensive expendable items so that potions and phoenix downs aren't so spamable.  (Different expendable items too, but I've not gotten to those yet in my ponderings.)
Currently leaning towards giving everything innate Def Up and Mag Def Up to keep fights from being too short and to provide more room for growth for characters without one-shotting everything.

* Current thoughts for elements include Fire and Earth unchanged, Water and Ice combined into Water, Wind and Lightning combined into Wind, Darkness being used as the healing and poison element (Life or some such name) for purposes of interaction with undead, and one of the remaining elements at least used for Dragons and Dragon targeting attacks/weapons.

I've been rather preoccupied lately, so work on this, again, will be slow at best.  This is just my musings over an overall concept.