CT (clockticks) & Speed

[Lydyn]

I was looking at the Battle Mechanics guide and saw that the speed of the unit modifies how fast the CT bar fills up.

My main question is when is CT counted for? In between turns or at some other point in time? Trying to figure out when someone's ability will go off in relation to another unit, with preferably, an equation of some kind.

Like for example, a unit with 8 speed throws out a CT: 2 spell, when will it go off compared to everyone else?

[Skip Sandwich]

the speed of a spell is equal to 100/ct. the character's speed has no affect (except for jump). The CT bar and spell ct are two different things

[philsov]

Gameflow summary c/p (based off the BMG, think its appendix A)

Status Check
S+ phase
SR phase, if required
C+ phase
CR phase, if required
<loop>

- Status check removes a tick counter from statii that have a time span, much like haste, charm, and sleep. Here's a table:

Charm ........ 32 clockticks
Don't Act .... 24 clockticks
Don't Move ... 24 clockticks
Faith ........ 32 clockticks
Haste ........ 32 clockticks
Innocent ..... 32 clockticks
Poison ....... 36 clockticks
Protect ...... 32 clockticks
Reflect ...... 32 clockticks
Regen ........ 36 clockticks
Shell ........ 32 clockticks
Slow ......... 24 clockticks
Sleep ........ 60 clockticks
Stop ......... 20 clockticks

(edit: these are vanilla values.)

For example, if a unit is hasted on tick 14, then haste will wear off on tick 46.

- S+ phase is the one in which the charging actions decrease by a tick based off the CTR (clockticks till resolution). Much like the status check phase, this is a mostly hidden step in Tact due to the absolute system. If one charges a Holy on tick 54, then it'll resolve on tick 60. You really don't need to keep track of how many ticks have passed, but simply resolve the action on its appropriate tick.

- The SR phase is the one in which all charging actions which are ready to resolve (ie, it's their tick) do so. They do so in character list order, which is explained at the end of this page. Time Magic is capable of causing confusion here, but that'll be discussed next bit.

- C+ is when characters gain CT equal to their speed. If a unit has 60 CT on tick 20 and 9 speed, then on tick 21 he'll have 69 CT. Note that CT incrementation occurs after spell resolution, so in the cases of Haste and Slow, the modified speed is instead incremented on the tick the spell resolved. In the case of Quick, a unit's CT actually reaches 100 in the SR phase and ACTS within the SR phase. So, the quicked unit also gains CT on the tick they are quicked.

- CR phase is the one in which characters whose CT is 100 or greater get to act. Despite what the BMG says, the character list/tiebreaker is only brought in between units of the same CT, not just all above 100. A 108 CT unit will always act before a 103 CT unit. Between two 108's, then it's tiebreaker time.

After all units have acted, it's time for the next tick, and the cycle goes on and on.

~

So in direct answer to your question, for those sorts of questions its best to create an arbitrary and absolute tick numbering system.

Say its the start of the fight.... so the 8 speed unit will get a turn on tick 13, since then their CT will have incremented to 100.  (104 CT, to be exact).  Thus, their 2 CTR spell will resolve on the start of tick 15.  So if you cast it on an ally with 7 speed (he gets his first turn on tick 15, with 105 CT), it'll resolve before he gets action since SR goes before CR (charging things resolve before CT increments and people act).  CT does roll over, so in the case of your 8 speeder, on tick 14 she'll have 12 CT assuming he both moved and acted.  If for example you cast short charge Haste (1 CTR), it'll resolve usually immediately simply of how gameflow works.

The only drawback of this system is that since you can't really pause the game by ticks, its very easy to lose track of where you are after the 3rd or so round.  In this case, you can start another arbitrary zero point and go from there.  

Say you gain an AT with one of your ninjas.  Looking at the AT, you can see your resident time mage is up, and the next person to act is an injured enemy knight.  Your time mage is at 80 CT and has 10 speed.  You'd like to finish the knight off with the time mage and so the ninja can run off and kill something else.  But the enemy knight has 52 CT and 8 speed.  Will you be able to get off a Demi?

(Hint, the equation for knowing how many ticks a character will move is {(100 - CT) / sp}.  {_} means always round up.)

A more elaborate (and informative) example is the Meteor setup I've been rocking for a few Deep Dungeon fights.  This is probably the best because it shows both charge time synching and AT/spell synching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAxMr7vzohs

The combo with the lancer is as such:

14 sp lancer, 13 sp meteor setter.

Tick 8: Lancer gets 112 CT, moves and doesn't act (20 CT rolls over, along with excess)
Tick 8: Wizard gets 104 CT, charging a meteor onto Lancer set to resolve on tick 14 (Short charge meteor is 6 CTR).
(End of tick 8, Lancer now has 32 CT and wizard has 4.)
Tick 13: Lancer gets 102 CT, able to move/act
Tick 14: Meteor resolves, quite well, thanks to the Lancer being able to act RIGHT before the meteor resolve and also jump to avoid the damage.
Tick 16 - 108 CT - Wizard's back up and not charging

Despite that both quick and meteor resolved on the same tick, quick resolved first because Reis was higher on the character_list which is set in stone based off starting positions (also in the BMG).  Plus based how everyone's speed was setup this enabled Ramza to move twice after all this crap had been charged on him, which really helped make sure he moved all the way downfield to disable the Taiju.

Edit:  Also, I had to compensate for the speed of the enemy.  The window of action for both 15 sp mimes and 12 speed samurai around tick 14 is nothing, assuming they all move and don't act.  Additionally, if a Samurai gave all the mimes haste they still wouldn't get their second turn until tick 15.  This is partially why the casters have 13 sp instead of 11 or 14.

[Lydyn]

Well, this is all for an attempt to balance speed growth and maximum speed ... as well as a balance CT for spells and such. I guess I'll try my best off of all this information. I wish it wasn't so complicated sometimes though, lol.

[philsov]

It isn't THAT complicated, its just a series of {(100 - CT) / sp} rate lines all moving at once.  For spells you just take that and add spell CTR at the end.  A 52 CT, 8 sp mage casting a 5 CTR spell will get it off in ({(100 - 52) / 8} + 5) ticks.  

In cases of uniform speed (like, chapter 1) this is really easy because everyone has like 6 sp.  The headache only comes with staggered CTs in midbattle thanks to both differing speeds and various waits.

[Asmo X]

I thought it was pretty easy to understand actually. I skipped over it in the BMG because numbers usually taint my ability understand anything within a mile of them.

[Zaen]

Interesting, not too hard to understand, but a little arithmetic if you wanna be precise.

One Que.... *backspaces*

Just got the example, philsov. That explains it perfectly and answered what I was just gonna ask.

/Edit : OH, one question quick, forgive me if it was already stated, but how much is not moving shave off the CT? I mean, I know acting is 20 CT, but how much is moving?/End_Edit


I imagine this is extremely useful information for 1.3 playthroughs, eh?

[Lydyn]

"Tick 6 - 102 CT Ramza moves and doesn't act. (now at 22 CT)"

Apparently it takes off 80 CT. I understand it much better now, taking the time to study it a little.

[philsov]

yeah, either not acting or moving takes off 20 CT a pop.  If you fullwait that's 40 CT on your counter at the end of your turn.  

Note, however, that if you're afflicted with Don't Act/Don't Move you can't get that respective 20 CT bonus

I imagine this is extremely useful information for 1.3 playthroughs, eh?

Was a massive help on setting up quick to resolve immediately after unit action to set up a Rafa gatling gun, notably.

Plus, this sort of thing is vital for Jump because the game doesn't auto-calc it for you.

[Zaen]

Hah, Don't Move/Act are such good friends.

I'm probably gonna have my calculator at ready for those tough battles to help time stuff.. good thing it bought some AAA's. xD