Changing Generic Skillset Associations

[Angel]

I only wanted to say that I also loved Final Fantasy XII's translation, with the exception of 'magick'. It was still on the same level of writing as Vagrant Story, which was also great. WotL laid it on quintuple thick, though. XII and Vagrant Story were both more on a medieval fantasy standard, well within the range of suspended disbelief. WotL just... really went too far on the obfuscation. I had no problem with them redoing the dialogue (the proper noun changes are what draw my ire, and then some), but I really wish they stepped back on it a few dozen paces.

For all the fixes we've had for WotL to make the gameplay more palatable, I do wish we had more and better tools for it. It's the version all new members are interested in, after all. But at this point, I don't expect it to ever happen. Much as I'd love to see some talent fly in from nowhere and completely change the situation, that likelihood falls further each day.

I really really really wanted to jump into the Android version and make that a valid option for modding, but Squeenix just absolutely mangled that port beyond all help.

[Bonesy]

ye olde warre of liones

[BleuVII]

Holy Crikes guys! Aren't we all here because we love the same game? I have never, in my life, seen such animosity in a group where everyone is gathered because of a common interest.

So let's just state two things clearly:
(1) I like the WotL script. I played the original FFT back when I was in high school and college, and I found the story hard to follow. I don't have examples of mistranslations except for spell names because I haven't PLAYED the PSX version in over a decade. I just have memories, accurate or not, where I sat staring at the screen saying, "Huh. I bet that actually sounded good in Japanese." When I played the WotL script, I found it stylistic, nuanced, and immersive. You can disagree with me on this. I have nothing to prove.

(2) I'm not planning on learning ASM for this project. I have great respect for those of you that do it, but aside from the one thing that I started this topic about, the rest of my vision is accomplished without it. I have nothing against it; it's just a level of immersion that is outside the current scope of my project plan. You guys would look at this and consider it a lesser project, and you would be right on that. I'm not TRYING to make Journey of the Five. I'm trying to rebalance the vanilla version. If I try to make everything absolutely perfect, I'm never going to finish it.

I am glad you have pointed me towards the patches that add in the WotL script, and that added the WotL events in the game. I am looking into those to see if I can use a combination of the two to go back to the PSX version, because I really would like to use more of the tools that you have here without the headaches of the PSP version. WHEN I AM DONE WITH MY OWN PERSONAL PLAYTHROUGH, WHICH I AM DOING ON FRIGGIN PSP BECAUSE I'M ALREADY FRIGGIN FINISHED WITH IT AND 25% OF THE WAY THROUGH THE GAME, I will do the cleanup on my project and port the changes to the PSX version.

Finally, as someone who is here because of a common, shared interest, I have realized in reading back through this thread that your mind equates board games with things like Monopoly, Candy Land, and Sorry, which is why you think experience in one field has nothing to do with the other. Most designers these days look at those games the same way a modern developer looks at Pac-Man and Donkey Kong... the place where it all started, but not something to emulate. Almost a quarter of us got into modern board games BECAUSE of either FFT or Fire Emblem. If nothing else, just look up Krosmaster Arena and Pixel Tactics. Neither are my games, so this isn't self-promotion, but both games were made by people who love Tactical JRPGs, and it shines through in every card.

[gatebuster202]

As one who enjoyed both games, I want a bit of feed back... Why did they not Cell Shade animate the most pivots and poignant scene of Chapter 4 after the credits roll?

Most know the one I am talking about. The one that cements this game as a true Greek Tragedy in the face of it's medival romance. Square Enix was afraid of ruining the scene. Which meant that they were afraid of their own game. How can they make a good game when they were afraid of the legacy of the original. Hell, 15 promises to be a departure from this fear of the Shadow left by the loss of the core team that made 1-9. Square Enix almost screwed up WotL, beyond playability for most. For a few here, it is beyond hackable. I for one hate them for this and the lack of PC release that could allow untold possibilities.

[Timbo]

Holy Crikes guys! Aren't we all here because we love the same game? I have never, in my life, seen such animosity in a group where everyone is gathered because of a common interest.

So let's just state two things clearly:
(1) I like the WotL script. I played the original FFT back when I was in high school and college, and I found the story hard to follow. I don't have examples of mistranslations except for spell names because I haven't PLAYED the PSX version in over a decade. I just have memories, accurate or not, where I sat staring at the screen saying, "Huh. I bet that actually sounded good in Japanese." When I played the WotL script, I found it stylistic, nuanced, and immersive. You can disagree with me on this. I have nothing to prove.

(2) I'm not planning on learning ASM for this project. I have great respect for those of you that do it, but aside from the one thing that I started this topic about, the rest of my vision is accomplished without it. I have nothing against it; it's just a level of immersion that is outside the current scope of my project plan. You guys would look at this and consider it a lesser project, and you would be right on that. I'm not TRYING to make Journey of the Five. I'm trying to rebalance the vanilla version. If I try to make everything absolutely perfect, I'm never going to finish it.

I am glad you have pointed me towards the patches that add in the WotL script, and that added the WotL events in the game. I am looking into those to see if I can use a combination of the two to go back to the PSX version, because I really would like to use more of the tools that you have here without the headaches of the PSP version. WHEN I AM DONE WITH MY OWN PERSONAL PLAYTHROUGH, WHICH I AM DOING ON FRIGGIN PSP BECAUSE I'M ALREADY FRIGGIN FINISHED WITH IT AND 25% OF THE WAY THROUGH THE GAME, I will do the cleanup on my project and port the changes to the PSX version.

Finally, as someone who is here because of a common, shared interest, I have realized in reading back through this thread that your mind equates board games with things like Monopoly, Candy Land, and Sorry, which is why you think experience in one field has nothing to do with the other. Most designers these days look at those games the same way a modern developer looks at Pac-Man and Donkey Kong... the place where it all started, but not something to emulate. Almost a quarter of us got into modern board games BECAUSE of either FFT or Fire Emblem. If nothing else, just look up Krosmaster Arena and Pixel Tactics. Neither are my games, so this isn't self-promotion, but both games were made by people who love Tactical JRPGs, and it shines through in every card.

I will agree that people are very sensitive about their love of the original version and that some of the more important members of the community tend to single out and humiliate members of the community that don't see things their way. However, for the most part, they are right. The original version is far superior to the WotL version and when you add in all of the work that has been put into the original version from this community there really isn't a comparison. The only thing I actually disagree with them on is that I believe the original translation is inferior to the WotL translation. I will however admit that both translations suck and that which version is best comes down to a matter of personal preference.

[3lric]

Holy freaking christ.

The entire thing started because of this, if you still can't see that:

I can balance skillsets, create thematic gameplay, and force players into interesting choices all day, but without your guys' coding expertise, I'm crippled. 

My hack is a "vanilla" hack that will probably never be played by anyone here

All this comes off as is someone whining because they NEEDED our expertise to do something they weren't willing to learn and expecting that the community you were asking for help wouldn't even play it.

THAT IT! Nothing more! Had you ever read what I wrote, you'd have known that.

The fact that it's even gone on this far is dumb. This is a site that set out to mod the PSX version, down the road, minimal support was added to WotL in a couple of tools, but it is not what we primarily mod here, this is why WotL modding has nothing but a small subforum. And stop using my mod as an example. No one asked you to make a Journey of the Five type story mod, so even bringing it up makes no sense. We know you are making a vanilla mod. This wasn't about events, this was about ASMs and you being 'crippled' without us making them for you because you don't want to learn to do it yourself. You keep pressing the point that you are not making a story mod. You are making a SMALL vanilla mod. So all the stuff you keep saying about board games or whatever is completely irrelevant.

I didn't even CARE what you were modding until you started talking about the advantages of WotL. Except, you already know we were biased, and knew what our reaction would be, and yet ya did it anyway. So were you just trying to start an argument? FFXII dialogue and WotL dialogue do not match. I'm fine with FFXII, but the shit they used in WotL was never at any time used in the human language and is completely incorrect and over exaggerated. Outside that, everything that was added was not added by the original creators and is not considered canon. WotL is a fan game at best (and worst). So you can have your opinions on it and we will have ours. But don't get your panties in a twist when we express them. The animosity wouldn't even be there had you not decided to throw that in with your quote from above, which still makes me sick that you don't even understand what I'm saying. You can't ask a community for their help and then say that it's unlikely that anyone here will play it. THAT is the issue here, everything else is just back and forth banter, but that quote does make it a lot worse, since it's all I keep thinking about while replying to this.

End of discussion.