Final Fantasy Hacktics

I'm working on getting a team together involving a mime not using talk skill or item. Haven't decided in which direction to go due to mime positioning. Keep fighting the good fight lads.

Being 1-0 is better than being 0-1 though. Nothing wrong with a little rivalry.

Also I'll watch those matches eventually. Me gramps broke his hip last week and I haven't been paying attention to youtube or arena.

I'll comment on the next 6 matches so there's no way of telling if I'm commenting on my own matches or not. No spoilers that way since I'll probably end up commenting matches that aren't my own.




Sound's great this time Heroebal. GJ fixing it.

Removed the previous post with the Halloween team since it was just for WKW's Halloween matches.

Wasn't complaining about the but I see what you mean.  I like the idea of a mulligan match to make up for one sided RNG match ups though.



Also twistedmime posted some new teams, but didn't bump his post. Just a heads up to uploaders in case you guys missed it.

Requesting one match for the concept team. I ran some test matches and think it's worth one exhibition match. GL vs RNGesus.

My only tip to you twistedmime009 is....

Thanks for the match Andrew. Definitely had all three of those battle royale matches spoiled. Two thumbs up. I'll just skip those and wait for the next set of matches.

Probably missed an inning or two but it was a great watch.

I really like that format Heroebal. Haven't watched any of the videos yet but I like to see It's different and I'll definitely go back and watch all these matches after today's world series game is over. Keep it up Heroebal I'll be back.

Good stuff all.

Choosing to organize teams is entirely up to the player. I still see you don't understand that though silentkaster since I went and explained that the players with the same views as you will just fit the neutral category automatically. Borderline projecting like in the balance discussion thread  when you keep coming to the conclusion of me forcing anyone here to do anything.

No need to go that far WKW. Way too much effort when the majority of players seem not care about making rng match making less rng. To each their own really. If I end up having teams that don't go unused due to no one else having competitive teams then so be it. There's always testing teams the old fashioned way.

I won't go into any more detail on this subject either. It only took up half a page and seemed to rub people the wrong way unfortunately. Progress through change? I guess not that's too much to ask, so we'll continue to go with progress through consistency. RIP the dream.

@silentkaster
1. I don't think you understood any of the categories if you think it discourages new players. What's discouraging is this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTj1M4U_W18 . Nobody's at fault here except maybe RNGesus forsaking Joorum who was a new player at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10S6lDAh6KU 42 Minutes in against Malroth's team. Again, you're not at fault, I'm not at fault, and Malroth definitely isn't at fault here, but wow if this isn't a good example of a why there needs to be some pooling, seeding, or match making system then I don't know what is. At least in the next AI tournament we will have teams made specifically for testing tournament teams since there will 100% guaranteed be a team in the competitive category and a for fun team that follows a NO JP Cap or past tournament ruling.

2. I'm not forcing anything on the recorders but to maybe respect the players choices when it comes to pairing up their competitive and for fun teams with those that aren't sorted aka "neutral category". In the past people have taken the time out to make teams made specifically for one purpose like for fun or supposedly competitive and I feel leaving things how they are now wastes an opportunity for these players and maybe even for the uploaders themselves. It solves a player feeling like all of their teams have to be ready to compete and prevents uploaders from having to apologizing for taking the time out to record a match. I don't understand how you're not seeing the categories being the same thing as labeling too. Every point you've made at the end there just fits the neutral and maybe "for fun" category.

3. Definitely didn't understand the point of the categories again. If you don't care for them then you're automatically neutral. The categories aren't about the people that don't care, they're there for players that do. 14 categories? It's almost as if you didn't read the spoilered info at all so I'll explain again at the end of this post.

4. The categories doesn't stop all requests. I just posted twice about there needing to be a universal system for players to organize their teams, that's it, the system doesn't change much. The only thing that will change is a player being unable to have a match against a team if it's not in the same category. Of course if the player is active they can always accept requests, but if an inactive team were to have organized teams and someone wanted to have a match up with one they'd have to have a team in the same category matched up out of respect for the inactive player's wishes.

Quote from: White Knight Wiegraf on October 24, 2015, 03:07:30 pm
I think Shintroy's system is really not that complex. Any unsorted team would be considered neutral, like it is right now. There really wouldn't be that many competitive teams, so overall it would not affect things that much. We'd just have some matches that are at least semi-guaranteed to be competitive. We could also set limits or restrictions to keep the numbers down. For instance if someone enters themselves as competitive but they go on a losing streak, clearly that means they aren't ready yet. They could just be sent back to neutral until they update their team and try again. As for the fun/themed category, it was pretty much just unofficial at this point.

Exactly WKW. I admit I didn't as good of a job as I could have explaining the categories since it was done right on the spot, but it's obviously silentkaster didn't understand enough to fully agree or disagree with them as much as you were able to.

You have a good grasp on the reasons behind the neutral and competitive categories and how teams always have the option to change between them. The for fun category is definitely an odd one that I need to put more thought into. I think a lot of players need to rethink how teams are since there's a lot of players that may believe a "themed" team should or could fit in the "for fun" category.

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What makes a team a team? Obviously it's four functional units trying to achieve the same goal "to win". But what about teams that want to do more than win or just have a wacky match that goes on forever? In those cases it's not just about winning and losing and I believe these teams need a system so that they're matched up better.

Now I'm not the only one that thought there needed to be a ranking system of some sort. It's been discussed in this thread and others like the annual tournament thread. Seeding has been discussed, but I don't think it's fair for players since would end up in numeral ranking and with players at the bottom which would probably end up badly for the spirit of the game since players wouldn't have a choice if they ever competed in the competitive tournaments. Ranked matches has also been proposed, but I don't think this would be a good idea either since it would require everyone to make competitive teams, uploaders to do the matches, and a point system to rank players. Too much work and it's probably intimidating for newer players to be paired up with a top ranked player even if it's one of their bad or fun teams. All discussion for these ideas have died out since I guess everyone's fine with the current system.

That's when I thought of a way for the neutral players to stay neutral and for players that want to be matched up with other high level and gimmick teams. The three categories won't have ANY affect on the players that don't to or aren't able to organize their teams. They'll only affect the players that choose to use them.

The competitive category is pretty self explanatory; a category for teams designed specifically for high level play. Teams in this category will only be able to fight against other competitive teams so there's nothing to worry about for the casual passive player. Their team will have zero chance of being paired up against cutthroats unless an uploader does so.

The "For Fun" category is an odd one since not everyone has the same idea of what makes a team fun. So I'll explain what kind of labeling doesn't automatically make a team fit this category.


With the for fun category we'll also be able to have some new matches like no jp cap exhibition matches and other rules we've never been able to have outside of tournaments.

The neutral category is for players that don't want to categorize and for players that don't care about what their team gets matched up against. This category is just the current system in short where any type of teams get matched up. A competitive team will be able to fight a for fun team and vice-versa here, but now players and uploaders will know what's possible here unlike before. So no more apologies and feeling sorry for yourself in this category since there's always the option of making a for fun team or competitive team.
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So many posts while typing this. Looks like everyone at least understands this as entirely optional (neutral). I'm just glad I'm not alone in trying to make it easier on the uploader's conscious when using RNG and getting poorly matched up teams.

Quote from: silentkaster on October 24, 2015, 05:12:14 pmBut Shintroy is suggesting/proposing an unwritten rule, essentially, where it is either required or highly suggested that players organize their teams. I say no. Let players do what they want.

Still not understanding the point of the neutral category. It's not about the players that are against the categories, it's about the players that care about how some of their teams are matched up. In the future when we have the S5 (or is it 6?) tournament there will definitely be more matches like I posted above where someone's tournament team gets showcased against other non tournament teams for exhibition. The categories will without a doubt make uploaders jobs easier when it comes to these types of videos since all they will have to do is pair them with competitive teams.

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Thanks for the match Andrew. Hope you're not overworking yourself with these matches. Subscribed yesterday.

Quote from: Reks on October 24, 2015, 01:57:07 am
While I do think that organization of your teams for more possible matches is good, I'm currently locked to my phone, which is nightmarish for editing text and such.

None of mine are really "for fun" and I don't really make purely competitive teams, either.

Just remain neutral and maybe make new teams to fit the other categories. Players that can't categorize won't be affected by the sorting of team as previously said, but they won't be able to fight a player's high end or for fun teams.

If are actually able to sort your teams I'll do the formatting for you and just send you the post to copy and paste. All you would have to do is delete the spaces on the [b ] [/b] and add the brackets for Also if you need a .mcr or whatever the android/extension for memory cards is I'll make you the file with the teams you want since you aren't able to use excel on mobile. At least I don't think you're able to use excel. I haven't tested if my new phone is able to use complex spreadsheets.



There was discussion about ranked matches with a point system months ago in this thread and in the S4 tournament thread and there's been a couple of tournament suggestions thrown around like a mime team tournament and a SCC tournament with regular rules. I think categorizing all teams in to three groups would please a lot of sides without needing to do things like tournaments or making threads like a ranking thread that would need constant managing. Categorizing will also help uploaders who have admitted having problems matching up teams sometimes. (I'm beginning to repeat myself I'm about to go to sleep.)

No one is pushing the sort, but I do encourage people to think about it so we can have a lot more entertaining matches instead of one sided ones like we've been getting a lot of recently. There's also no need to rush or feel pressured since this will only slow progress. I'd hate to see someone get their for fun team destroyed or even a competitive listed team get a free win not because of having a good match up, but because someone listed a team incorrectly.

Quote from: White Knight Wiegraf on October 24, 2015, 02:18:09 am
Generally, my teams start out with an experiment, and I just build a team around it. Over time I try to make it competitive. If you want to gauge how competitive one of my teams are, I guess the version number could be a rough indication.

Same here and probably for many others WKW. If you don't think a team is strong enough to compete with a high end team then just list it as neutral. If you're making a competitive team, but are posting an early, weak, or even an untested version of it then list it as neutral. If you're like me and are in your tenth update of a supposedly competitive team then maybe it's time to let go (RIP My Me XI, Barrows X, Buff PA V, Power Rangers VII, etc). If you want to list them as competitive anyway then so do. There's always losing in the first round in a tournament. No pressure.

Thought of another way to explain, or at least go into more detail in each category with explaining how players can sort "special request" teams. In the past there have been teams meant to only face a certain type of team and even against one single team. These teams would go in the for fun category since they're teams teams meant solely for fun and don't fit in the other two categories. Special request can be anything like "SCC Only", "vs Mime Only", or something specialty tournament worthy. Even a "NO JP cap", "S3 AI Tourney rules only" or something ridiculous like "vs NO LIMITS only".

"SCC Only" "NO JP Cap" "X Only"= For Fun. It's possible to make a SCC team, and compete with competitive and random team match ups sure, but this type of team will obviously only be paired up with other for fun teams with a "SCC only" special request tagged to it.

SCC Teams, Mime Teams, Twin Teams, Themed Teams = Neutral or Competitive. SCC teams can be made competitive, but at the same time can definitely out class a for fun team (See silentkaster's Thieves Guild). These teams are just teams with specific rules and can definitely be made high level (See any squire team).

This is just my input on the categories. The one that decides how their teams are organized is up to the player. I'm only worried about new players unaware of category "rules" accidentally putting a competitive team in a for fun team. The vice-versa doesn't really matter, but it does since it wastes the other team's time if they just end up getting steam rolled. No point in thinking about it now. Matching up teams hasn't even begun yet. Let's worry about the holes when we get there.

Quote from: Corosar on October 23, 2015, 06:46:11 pm
technically i have already did something like that with my sorting though i have 4 groups

Tournament Teams: For teams that are also meant to win... but they were used in previous tournaments i still plan to improve them but they are more of a memory thing then anything else.
ranked: For matches meant to win... these are the ones i will do everything i can to make them better

Themed: For Fun teams usually with a gimick of some sort... may they be based on something or have a certain thing about them

Collab Teams: for when i team up with another person or take part in a team effort. These teams are updated based on what the player that made the units want.

I'm aware of you and others that sort out their teams. Still though, I think it'd be best if we all organized our teams the same way. I noticed you have both tournament and ranked teams. I have the same thing going on with my tournament team, but unlike yours it isn't included in with my exhibition teams. Your tournament category could just fit in the competitive category since they're basically a tournament team updated for exhibition matches. Once a S4 team is updated it's no longer the same team used in tournament. All tournament teams are archived in the S4 thread (I'm just realizing this) so I'm actually going to remove mine from the team submission thread. If you were to sort yours this way you should keep yours in the competitive category, since unlike me you want to improve yours and have it compete against other teams also meant for tournament/ranked/high level play.

Themed and Collab teams can still be included in the categories I suggested. If they're gimmick heavy teams then just include them in for fun. If they have a lot of potential or you're unsure then go neutral, and if they're really great teams and you want them to only fight other teams then put them in the competitive category. My bad breath team was a for fun and themed team, but it has too much potential to be put up against other for fun teams. Everyone will just have to look at their teams objectively and sort them out.

Quote from: Andrew on October 23, 2015, 10:08:37 pm

spoiler: In regards to Shintroy's idea and the videos I post.

RNGesus apologizes for the one-sidedness of some of the matches I post.  In all seriousness, if people do not like my current system, then feel free to speak up and I can change things.  Truth be told, I think the random match-making element is fun, but I didn't consider the possibility that it could bother some people.  If everybody agrees with and acts upon Shintroy's idea, then, for each match I record, I shall draw from the predetermined "competitive", "neutral" or "fun" team pools for both participating players.  We could take the time to categorize the inactive accounts' teams, as well, and perhaps improve some of them while doing so.

Nothing to worry about since you're not the only one who uses RNG to pair teams up. Your system is fine, I'm just proposing a way to make it better. Everything will still be done randomly just with a filtering system as you said.



For now I just want to read more input the idea. Inactive accounts can stay inactive. I don't think players on break need to have their teams being used and rated. I think everyone behind Anima Zero is inactive. If you want to include those teams in your matches it would be fine since they'd be considered neutral to the people who are active and have their teams organized. It all works out actually since it's impossible for competitive and "for fun" teams to be matched up against inactive teams.

Quote from: Heroebal on October 23, 2015, 10:29:57 pm
I might attempt this I'm doing a round robin tournament of my teams to see where they stand tier wise. It should give me a good idea once I'm through. Some are tough to judge though like Mimesmania whom can pack a punch but are basically all glass cannons. Kind of like the butterbean of fft arena. And bards from hell (5-3)are somehow outperforming dancers from hell (2-6), which I don't get b/c Dancers from can do everything the bard's one can do but better.

I think bards have more potential than dancers just because they have access to superior AoE abilities due to their MA. Both are at 8 SP and 3 mobility, and have horrible weapon options sure, but being magic based means you're able to get more out of your turns than being physical based and they get more options in reaction, movement, and support abilities.

GL organizing your teams. There's really no need to unless you have some you want to only be matched up against competitive and for fun teams, but thanks for doing so since you'll be helping prevent mismatches in the categories where they matter.