Title: Speed Growth and You
Post by: Paheej on December 16, 2010, 09:48:06 pm
Post by: Paheej on December 16, 2010, 09:48:06 pm
Gentlemen,
I know a while back there was a large discussion on Speed Growth and ways to alter or solve issues associated with it (particularly late-game balance, de-leveling, and the like). A while back I made a Powerpoint on it for my own mod - in order to tell users unfamiliar to the Battle Mechanics Guide, or Tactics modding in general, what was Speed Growth, how we dealt with it, and how others were dealing with it. Well today I finally got around to adding audio and uploading it as a video. I've been trying to tie up all the lose ends and get my mod out on December 19th, 2010. Anyway, I thought you guys might like to see and/or discuss these videos; considering these are the esoteric things that such communities love.
Without further ado:
Also embedded on the webpage at: http://www.nexus-studios.org/?page_id=319 (http://www.nexus-studios.org/?page_id=319)
I know a while back there was a large discussion on Speed Growth and ways to alter or solve issues associated with it (particularly late-game balance, de-leveling, and the like). A while back I made a Powerpoint on it for my own mod - in order to tell users unfamiliar to the Battle Mechanics Guide, or Tactics modding in general, what was Speed Growth, how we dealt with it, and how others were dealing with it. Well today I finally got around to adding audio and uploading it as a video. I've been trying to tie up all the lose ends and get my mod out on December 19th, 2010. Anyway, I thought you guys might like to see and/or discuss these videos; considering these are the esoteric things that such communities love.
Without further ado:
Also embedded on the webpage at: http://www.nexus-studios.org/?page_id=319 (http://www.nexus-studios.org/?page_id=319)
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: LastingDawn on December 16, 2010, 10:32:20 pm
Post by: LastingDawn on December 16, 2010, 10:32:20 pm
I love it. I posted my thoughts in your videos, but this concept really intrigues me. It shows me you are thoroughly serious about your project and I hope to see some information on it. Also feel free to join us on chat. We can try to help you if you'd like and its always fine to have another modder join us on IRC.
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: philsov on December 16, 2010, 10:33:58 pm
Post by: philsov on December 16, 2010, 10:33:58 pm
hah, I'm quoted XD. 190 is just an optimum growth number... I ran a variety of equations and that gave a stable enough curve while still allowing for a minimum amount of speed gear to exist (and restricted to slots to avoid stacking) and gave a decent sense of progression through the same. In my patch the only speed boosting items are in the helm slot or accessory. I see y'all employ the dagger bit instead of sprint shoes, which should work out quite well too.
I just sped through the videos, so apologies if I missed some vital commentaries as I'd like to think I'm versed enough in level up and such tactics.
I like your solution with the tiered system, I think it'll work well for what y'all are trying to do. It seems y'all are pretty much set, but a more radical twist (and forgive the pedantics) would be to alter pre-raw stats. Instead of starting at 6 speed, for example, you can just start everyone at 5 or 4 speed. Because of how stat leveling up works, these smaller seeds means even smaller growths in the absolute sense. Starting off with 5 speed and 255 growth, slow pokes (90-95 SPM) are 4 to 6 speed (1-99), normals (102) are 5 to 7 (7 at like... level 97, pure 100 is 5 to 6), and speedies (115-120) are 6 to 8. It's a more stable curve, if that's what one of the aims is. Just a suggestion
Oh, and I'm pleased to see progress being made on Rebirth! Make sure to check out the newest hacks made at the hands of FFM and Xif (the ability requirement hack is epiiic, if you're into that sort of thing), too.
I just sped through the videos, so apologies if I missed some vital commentaries as I'd like to think I'm versed enough in level up and such tactics.
I like your solution with the tiered system, I think it'll work well for what y'all are trying to do. It seems y'all are pretty much set, but a more radical twist (and forgive the pedantics) would be to alter pre-raw stats. Instead of starting at 6 speed, for example, you can just start everyone at 5 or 4 speed. Because of how stat leveling up works, these smaller seeds means even smaller growths in the absolute sense. Starting off with 5 speed and 255 growth, slow pokes (90-95 SPM) are 4 to 6 speed (1-99), normals (102) are 5 to 7 (7 at like... level 97, pure 100 is 5 to 6), and speedies (115-120) are 6 to 8. It's a more stable curve, if that's what one of the aims is. Just a suggestion
Oh, and I'm pleased to see progress being made on Rebirth! Make sure to check out the newest hacks made at the hands of FFM and Xif (the ability requirement hack is epiiic, if you're into that sort of thing), too.
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: FFMaster on December 16, 2010, 11:29:30 pm
Post by: FFMaster on December 16, 2010, 11:29:30 pm
Added this thread to the sticky, just in case it people want to see it at a much later date. Very useful for all patches that aim to balance.
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: Zaen on December 17, 2010, 12:10:34 pm
Post by: Zaen on December 17, 2010, 12:10:34 pm
I like this.
Also, good points on the "Tactics Ogre" style (which is my preferred system). I've found that the best way to balance in that way is to make all stats like that. Like staying in Thief for too long will severely handicap your PA/MA/HP/MP, as if you were to stay as a different class.
But yeah, your final solution sounds great. I just dislike the idea of weapons giving speed, especially with Two Swords thrown in the mix, but that was just colliding with one of my systems.
Also, good points on the "Tactics Ogre" style (which is my preferred system). I've found that the best way to balance in that way is to make all stats like that. Like staying in Thief for too long will severely handicap your PA/MA/HP/MP, as if you were to stay as a different class.
But yeah, your final solution sounds great. I just dislike the idea of weapons giving speed, especially with Two Swords thrown in the mix, but that was just colliding with one of my systems.
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 17, 2010, 11:58:42 pm
Post by: RavenOfRazgriz on December 17, 2010, 11:58:42 pm
...We're using the exact same fucking Speed balance system almost to the letter. The only difference being how I handled monsters vs you and some slightly tweaked multipliers due to a level cap change.
Wow... haha.
Wow... haha.
Title: Re: Speed Growth and You
Post by: Paheej on December 18, 2010, 03:13:32 am
Post by: Paheej on December 18, 2010, 03:13:32 am
@Raven
Yeah I figured someone else would be doing something similar, I just hadn't seen someone present it in that manner.
@Zaen
Yeah, there are some good points to the "Tactics Ogre" system. We just thought it discourages changing classes, as changing classes after being one class for a lot levels doesn't make any sense (you wouldn't be good at those abilities of the new class). And in our mod we wanted to encourage people to use classes they hadn't before. However everyone here would probably be interested in why you choose to do it that way, and how it enhances your mod overall.
Yeah I figured someone else would be doing something similar, I just hadn't seen someone present it in that manner.
@Zaen
Yeah, there are some good points to the "Tactics Ogre" system. We just thought it discourages changing classes, as changing classes after being one class for a lot levels doesn't make any sense (you wouldn't be good at those abilities of the new class). And in our mod we wanted to encourage people to use classes they hadn't before. However everyone here would probably be interested in why you choose to do it that way, and how it enhances your mod overall.