Final Fantasy Hacktics

Is it just me or has SE gone a little overboard with the number races in the world of Ivalice? I mean they had Hume, Viera, Bangaa, Moogle(ish), & Nu Mou already. They added like 7 more in FFXII. And then added the Aegyl and Feol-viera. OK now in FFTA2 they feel the need to have a winged-race for some tactical variety. What was the need to make another race? The Aegyl weren't good enough? What?

Those two races were add in FFXII:RW, not in FFTA2.

The races make for some interesting variety that I enjoyed in FFXII, but I'm not such a fan in FFTA&A2. Ultimately I like the mostly human thing a lot more for FFT. At least it isn't like a series standard across all the FF games and is just a part of the Ivalice Alliance (and only certain time periods at that). Plus Vera are awesome.

I like the variety of having multiple races, but I wish the number of jobs each race could have was more even (Humes have 13 possible jobs, Gria only 4), and I think the races ovelap a little too much in the jobs and abilitieis they can have. But overall I like it. It is a bit puzzling that they added the Gria when they already had the Aegyl, but I do like the Gria.

And yes, Viera elementalists rock.

FFXI also has races, as well as the Crystal Chronical games on the Nintendo systems. Sure those two games are different worlds than the one in Ivalice but I think its a bit much already.

Aegyl's has a lifespan of only  40 years lol
that's why they weren't included

FFIX was probably the worst one with like a billion different beast-man races.

I'm not a fan of the ton-o-species Ivalice either.  I enjoy the WotL universe where Humes are the only civilized race.  In my mind, I like to consider the Ivalice of FFT:WotL and Vagrant Story seperate from the Ivalice of FFXII, FFTA, and FFTA2.  I justify myself by saying that one is the "real" Ivalice, and the other is the Ivalice created in FFTA.

i donno what happened between the time ramza existed, up untill ffxii but i dont like the races either... one or two here and there but it seemed like 1 in 3 characters wasn't human. thats too much for me, its like watching a sci fi series like stargate or something

Some have surmised that FF12 takes place before FFT, at least 1800 years. There are also others that say that the Great Cataclysm which wiped out the other races was Altima's Retribution which occured when Ajora was executed. Though Human's as well refer to the time before Ajora as a Golden Age. So it's hard to say...

Hmmm.. well, their's of course the theory that Goug Machine City was built by Moogle's, plus the fact that in the manual for FFXII, it mentions "In a time when airships plied the skies"... also, you have to consider that the Occuria/Eternal aren't mentioned at all in FFT, and they are considered Ivalice's gods in FFXII. So their is a possibility that FFT is set after (way after) FFXII.

Regardless of the History (as inticing as it is) I love the number of races in FFTXII/FFXII:RW/FFTA/FFTA2, my favourite being the Aeyrl (For their Dragoon Like qualitys. So I personally like the variety of races (Though that's personally down to two of the four, FFXII:RW and FFTA2.) Which reminds me.. just out of interest...

How many people would like to see versions of this races appear as monsters in FFT? Just a thought. Could try and make some SPR files...

And by the by... if FFTA is a seperate Ivalice, how come Vann and Penelo appear in FFTA2? But to be fair, in FFTA, it is a Ivalice that is fabricated, created entirely from Imagination... And if your being really picky.. Isb't it fair that FFT:WOTL is part of the Ivalice Alliance, whereas FFT itself is different in many ways, so FFT:WOTL belongs to the FFTA, FFXII multirace future/past? So FFT and Vagrant Story belong in their own seperate universe..?

If anyone takes this into consideration, thanks for listening.

And to be fair, the only FFT game that we know for sure that exists in a different universe is FFTA, simply because it has been said time and time again...

I believe that officially FFTA is the only one that takes place in another realty. However it has been speculated that the *real* world in FFTA is, in fact, the real Ivalice far in the future. Also, I think it was officially established that FFXII is the far past of FFT & is the same place that Luso ventures to in FTA2. So the order of the games is something like this:

PAST

FFXII
FFXII:RW
FFTA2
FFT:WotL (FFT & FFT:WotL are the same story/setting)
VS
FFTA(*real world*; the Ivalice here is a fabricated realty)
FFTA2(*real world*; notice the name of the Librarian in Luso's school.)

FUTURE

Ah.. but I also have a theory. Well, if FFTA's Ivalice is fabricated... let's just say that FFTA's Ivalice, while not remaining in place over FFTA's Future "St.Ivalice"... maybe by crafting A "Ivalice" using the Grimore, this Ivalice that is created... is Ivalice in the past. Paradoxical? Yes. Because this means that Marche created Ivalice in the future, leading to it's distant past. This would explain why all the races came first, plus why their are no real "Gods" of Ivalice. Because Ivalice was created not by "Gods"... but by a young boy in the distant future. So, in essence, Ivalice needs Marche of the future to "create" it's past.

Like I said, it's just a theory, but this is just a Paradox creating a ccircle required for existence.

That's a good theory. But, don't forget the really screwed up part of the story. The fabricated *past* Ivalice is largely based on the kids' memories of a video game they played called "Final Fantasy"! How's that for a mind-fuck?

Ah.. so that would mean that the Ivalice that is created in the Ivalice Alliance series is down to the Final Fantasy Series (Because bear in mind that Marche, if it had been FFXII onward that he played, would recognize the Bangaa's at the beggining of FFTA as Bangaa's and also known (as has been illustrated in the games) they don't like being called Lizards.

Well, yeah. The game Marche plays is a fictional one not related to ours.

Wonder what their Final Fantasy's are like, seeing as how their Final Fantasy's used to be real...

sigh... i suppose from the point the made ffta and onward they will always have all those races (as i said like some sci fi where the planet is a rest stop for a bunch of different aliens or something)... unless they make an fft with the first arrival of st ajora

Yeah.. do you like any of the races?

i like humans as the dominant race, i don't mind like 1 or 2 moogles
and some other stuff (for a tactics rpg) but not having to be a moogle or a bangaa or something just to get some of the jobs.

the only unfortunate thing about the moogles is that theyve started to look like freaky rabbits more than the catlike creatures of the earlier ff games like 6. well i really dont mind other races, just only in very sall doses.

What do you think of having Moogles (with Tactics abilitys... not taking the jobs fully from Humes) as random mosters in FFT?

actually i want moogles in the game.... but u know what, i think i want to make a moogle like Mog from ff6, having full access to human skills, basically a human that looks like a moogle. or one that has a magic skillset. i might make one a REAL moogle, not a bunny moogle.

wait? they arent "human" they dont have noses, so they are "humes" lol... woops

Well that's cool, right? I mean, that's the whole point of being able to sprite. So you can make things look exactly how you want.

but if i want thim to be able to equip anything he'll have to be set as male or female which is okay i guess itll just seem weird when they die and scream like a man

Well, to be fair, everything has a gender, right?

monsters don't

Heh.... so what is Ultima? I mean...

I believe she's female. Also, I found out recently that officially St.Ajora is referred to as a female. So it makes sense that Ajora and Ultima wanted Alma as a host.

did they mistranslate in the story when they said that it was a he?

if so then maybe that portrait of a blonde haired girl with a blue hood was her real look

That's another theory, he is called a male in FFT and WoTL, but some seem to think that was to give the church the power to make men dominate. Transforming all of the legends surrounding her into "him" wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish. It would also show how corrupted the Glabados was when it was founded. My guess is that portrait of the "woman" with blonde haired is too ambigious, it can be either male or female. Regardless of intentional or not, Square probably chose against using it because that subplot, (if they ever planned it) was dropped.

Aren't a number of the unused portraits from the story mini-games they dropped from the US version?

Also, read the References section here:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Saint_Ajora_Glabados

It mentions where the idea of Ajora being a woman comes from.

I got this picture that looks like 2 pictures that are joined together which is the Ivalice in FFT and in FFXII also the place in Vagrant Story..

The two pictures matched.. This means There are different settings of where the story takes place.

Well. There's your Ivalice.

Quote from: "Zozma"actually i want moogles in the game.... but u know what, i think i want to make a moogle like Mog from ff6, having full access to human skills, basically a human that looks like a moogle. or one that has a magic skillset. i might make one a REAL moogle, not a bunny moogle.

wait? they arent "human" they dont have noses, so they are "humes" lol... woops

read the sweegy woods info.... It says moogles are extinct... itd be nice ot have them maybe as a special guest... like "save the last living moogle"...lol

hehe not any more, ill be editting that txt file mwahaha.... nah ill probably make an event for Mog the moogle where you rescue him from deep dungeon.

Quote from: "Sen"I got this picture that looks like 2 pictures that are joined together which is the Ivalice in FFT and in FFXII also the place in Vagrant Story..

The two pictures matched.. This means There are different settings of where the story takes place.

That picture has been brought up before. the problem is that it doesn't match any descriptions in any of the games. Plus they're scaled to make them match up. And on top of that, if you look at the top right corner of the FFT map it's covered by the border, so you don't really know if it matches.

Also, the difference in how Ivalice and Ordalia are labeled in each map should be noted.  On the FFT map, Ivalice and Ordalia are both countries, were as in FFXII, Ivalice is the entire continent of which Ordalia is merely a continent in.

Someone once noted how it seems the as time goes on in the Ivalice setting the term keeps getting shrunk down to smaller and smaller spaces until you're in the far future and there's only a town called St. Ivalice left.

Good Point. However, bear in mind that when Marche transfuses St.Ivalice through the Grimore, wouldn't people have wanted all Ivalice to be a dramatic fantasy land? What if St.Ivalice is the name of the region, not the twon. I'm sure it was never fully esatblished.

No, it was established. The game says specifically that Marche lives in the town of St.Ivalice.

Ah. Well, guess I was wrong. Though it is strange how their teacher remarks at the beggining of the game how Marche isn't used to the snow of St.Ivalice.. Does it snow in just the town then?

Ahh well..

I imagine not, but in normal conversation if I said you must not be used to the heat in Miami it doesn't mean that the rest of the state isn't hot too. it just means that Miami is hot and that you must be or have been in Miami at some point.

It could be both, there are real world examples like new york, new york.

all i can say is, im happy with THIS fft where more than half the population is"hume' as its called later... a select few moogles is fine, in fact i like moogles... but not being more than half the population.... come on... back off a bit.... i don't like bangaas at all.... sorry guys

I don't even really mind having a handful of wide-spread races. My whole problem is that it seems that every time Square needs a niche race to fill a specific roll they just make a new one instead of using already established ones.

Take the Gria in FFTA2. Obviously the designers wanted a race that could fly and would make sense to have the jobs they were given. What was the problem with just using the Aegyl from FFXII:RW? Did they die off after that game or something? I mean FFTA2 takes place after RW. Why not make the story more dynamic and say that after RW some of the Aegyl decided to venture down off their floating continent? Wouldn't that have made sense?

yeah there was that widespread aegyl virus that killed them off... kind of like how the cetra died in ff7

ZOMFG!!! Bird-flu!!!

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read somewhere that in the FFXII Ultimania book, it shows a timeline with XII and Tactics. XII happens approximately 1400 years earlier, with the "Great Cataclysm" happening sometime in between.

This is merely speculation, but could the Great Cataclysm be the results of someone actually vanquishing the Occuria? I mean, they're apparently the Gods of Ivalice, and it seems like they aren't around by the time of Tactics, seeing as the Lucavi (The Scions) are apparently running amuck.

Actually, XII's ending felt... rather rushed. As I played, I was getting the impression that I was going to kill the Occuria at the end. I was sorely disappointed, as Venat was the only one I got to kill, as well as the only one doing the right thing and rebelling against the rest.

I believe that's mostly due to the fact that the game's original director left Square part way through development.

Also, your idea for the cataclysm sounds logical enough. Maybe the final battle against them was so terrible that it actually is the cataclysm itself?

That's what I think, but until they directly state it, I can't be sure. It would be cool though.

In the end, I'm glad the XII party didn't kill the Occuria, as they'd probably die painful deaths in the process.
Now if only Balthier's cameo made sense...

Why is that Fran was not with him also. If he did take a time machine then he could have brought Fran with him.

I have a theory on that. The sprite they used in his cameo is from an early production sketch. So maybe the it's a younger Balthier who hadn't met Fran yet.