First, you have the whole deliberate slow down for no apparent reason. Then you got the fact that you have to grind one class to 9999 JP just to have a shot at upgrading the Onion Knight, (And the way they do it is asinine as well. I mean, it's true no one use Fly, but, are you really going to make it cost 4999 JP? You couldn't have just coded the job so that you have to reach 9999 JP to master it, or if you couldn't have done that, just make some placeholder ability that costs 4999 JP or whatever. Why did you think it was a good idea to begin with?) which, at best, you can only have 5 people get (due to Zodiark or whatever). Granted, there are ways to get it on other team mates, but I'd rather blow my brains out.
However, what really clinches it for me is that fact that they made no attempt at balancing the game at all. The other ports of FF at least tried balancing the games out. Here, it's not even attempted. You can still roll over the computer like they weren't even there, and you are still only going to use a handful of classes and a handful of abilities. I wasn't expecting 1.3, but I was expecting something. And that, to me, is the biggest disappointment in WoTL. Hell, even if I wasn't spoiled by 1.3, I would have been disappointed. Granted, the new translation and cut-scenes are nice and the addition of new battles (most of which you can't get to without a friend), and being able to go head to head against other players is nice, but, in all honesty, those can only go so far. The game is still broken, and because of that, FFT is still an example of a game that could have been one of the greatest games ever made, but is shackled down by it's myriad of flaws. I mean, all they had to do is at least try. FFT is a complicated game, and I wouldn't have blamed them at all if they didn't get it right. Just trying to balance it out would have elevated WoTL in my eyes. But they didn't, so I consider WoTL, a disappointment.
QuoteHowever, what really clinches it for me is that fact that they made no attempt at balancing the game at all.
Understand that their target audience is nostalgic fanboys. Any modification to the core gameplay would have a ton of people crying foul. And they
certainly wouldn't turn it into 1.3 -- at least not difficulty wise, unless they WANTED to alienate the majority of their customers.
The game should've been balanced when released on the ps1. But it wasn't, because of time restraints or whatever. That's what hacking is for - to make a game you like even better (or to put a new spin on an old idea).
The disappointing parts for me are the extra content being locked away by multi-player exclusivity and the completely nonsensical slowdown.
Quotewhich, at best, you can only have 5 people get (due to Zodiark or whatever). Granted, there are ways to get it on other team mates, but I'd rather blow my brains out.
Low faith and low MA caster, smack an enemy summoner with it. 90% chance of learning it, 50% chance of crystalizing when dead, 90% chance of being in the crystal. That's a 40.5% chance to learn on one character from a battle with an enemy Summoner if you keep it going long enough to grab the crystal. And really, do you NEED that many with Zodiark? Onion Knights suck in this game anyways.
Quote from: "Kaijyuu"QuoteHowever, what really clinches it for me is that fact that they made no attempt at balancing the game at all.
Understand that their target audience is nostalgic fanboys. Any modification to the core gameplay would have a ton of people crying foul. And they certainly wouldn't turn it into 1.3 -- at least not difficulty wise, unless they WANTED to alienate the majority of their customers.
The game should've been balanced when released on the ps1. But it wasn't, because of time restraints or whatever. That's what hacking is for - to make a game you like even better (or to put a new spin on an old idea).
Like I said, I wasn't expecting 1.3 at all, but I was expecting something. They balanced Edward in the DS release of FFIV and I haven't heard no fanboys bawwing over that, so I don't think that was a problem.
I think the main issue was laziness. And I suspect tactical RPGs are harder to balance than the normal turn-based RPGs. I don't think anyone has a clue what they were thinking for the slowdown though.
Regarding Fly, that was probably it's JP cost in the original Japanese version of FFT, since this is really a port of the Japanese version (for the most part). Just FYI, since I agree that its JP cost is ridiculous. That aside...
Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Understand that their target audience is nostalgic fanboys. Any modification to the core gameplay would have a ton of people crying foul. And they certainly wouldn't turn it into 1.3 -- at least not difficulty wise, unless they WANTED to alienate the majority of their customers.
The game should've been balanced when released on the ps1. But it wasn't, because of time restraints or whatever. That's what hacking is for - to make a game you like even better (or to put a new spin on an old idea).
^^^^This.
The only disappointing thing about it is the slowdown (and the multiplayer to a lesser extent, but I've people to play with and two PSPs in a pinch, so it isn't as much an issue with me).
Quote from: "Dokurider"Like I said, I wasn't expecting 1.3 at all, but I was expecting something. They balanced Edward in the DS release of FFIV and I haven't heard no fanboys bawwing over that, so I don't think that was a problem.
They
buffed Edward, which he definitely needed. And he's still very good. If anything, he was better in FFIV Advance when he rejoins you and he's given his best equipment.
I could point to the buffs to Rafa, Malak, and Meliadoul in this case, but I don't think that's quite what you're getting at.
I found it disappointing as well. Translation issues aside (which does offend some "nostalgic fanboys"), deleting spell quotes and other small tidbits while increasing spell animation time is rather unnecessary (even with the new sidequests and previously Japanese only text; the game file still has plenty of space). More significantly, however, we all know that calculator and Holy Swordsman needed to be weakened. The only people who would have "cried foul" are the ones reliant on CT5Holy or Orlandu to win fights (which can hardly be called strategy; you can set your units to AI control and still win). Similarly, the multiplayer-only items not only take away from the difficulty of the game (you can get rare equips from non-story battles at much lower risk), but also decreases the importance of the story in getting items,=.
In short, Square didn't fix what should have been fixed, and added in more bugs and unbalanced features.
For starters, are we talking about just "balance" or are we really just talking about difficulty?
How much would have been enough? How much more difficulty or balancing before some folks in here would have been satisfied?
I can tell you right now that Orlandu and Calculators aren't the only "problems."
Ii sounds like some folks expect their ports to be significantly more difficult than the game it's based on. How many ports of older games are like that?
For me, I'd say balance = boss or storyline significant battles are hard enough that no setup with 5 units at equal level can win by setting all units to save fading life without having a 50%+ chance of permanently losing at least 1 character.
That's difficulty, not balance. Balance would be altering job innate abilities and multipliers so none of them are particularly useless, giving some sort of drawback to the math skills, speeding up spells so they don't become useless later on, making monsters compete with humans more, taming the power of the Knight Swords and buffing up the usefulness of cloths, harps, axes, and flails, and doing something to make Shirahadori less game breaking.
If you want your game to sell well, you make it easy enough that the vast majority of your players can beat it. That's why the game is "easy" in many parts (did they nerf Velius in wotl? He was definitely harder than necessary on the ps1).
If you think the AI shouldn't be able to win battles, understand that many players are much less intelligent than the AI.
Hell no, I love WOTL. My main beefs are the multi player, (it would be cool if you could do it yourself with two teams or something...) and the slowdown. Other then that basically everything is better over vanilla...
WOTL was a quick and dirty port of the PSX engine, which was obviously optimized for the PSX hardware. Not all of the code made a smooth transition, which is why you see things like the unfortunate effect/spell slowdown. Had WOTL been a ground-up rebuilding of the FFT software, slowdown and other relics would have been eliminated. But that would have been more costly and time consuming an undertaking than Square-Enix probably deemed worthwhile, given the potential market size for the game on the PSP (quite small, if extremely loyal).
At the end of the day, there is usually a decent business reason for cost-cutting decisions like these. In the case of WOTL, the decision probably had a lot to do with estimated market size and revenue projections weighed against potential development costs. In the final analysis, it made more financial sense to port over the old game and spend time on cutscenes, a new translation, and a few new characters and events, but probably didn't make sense to rebuild the game from soup to nuts. Square knew that the die-hard FFT fans would buy this game in any form, half-baked or otherwise, so long as it was baked at all. And honestly, I can't say I blame them. I'd rather have a flawed, but additional-content version of FFT on the PSP than no version at all.
It's fun to play armchair developer/publisher and discuss all the things we would have done differently were we in Square's shoes. But we need to remember that the actions of a for-profit company are bound by the constraints of profitability vs. loss. Square isn't going to release a game at a financial loss if at all possible. This is the cold, harsh reality of video game publishing.
My only problems with the game were that I didn't like the new style of translation - Story and names..
I didn't like the slowdown damn near all the time in every battle..
And I didn't like the horrible new sound effects.
Other than that, it was good stuff.
i didnt find a problem with tha psp version.the typos were fixed up big time but the addition of luso kinda suckd. balthier however was awesome. plus his job had safeguard. but i hated that u couldnt steal elmdores genji equipment.
I don't like the small party size. I think the max party size should be huge (given the size difference between a PSP memory stick and a PS1 memory stick).
Are there any codes or hacks to increase the max party size?
If not it needs to be done!
^Thats a good idea, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. At least the room is bigger than the PS1 version
Quote from: "Mickey B"I don't like the small party size. I think the max party size should be huge (given the size difference between a PSP memory stick and a PS1 memory stick).
Are there any codes or hacks to increase the max party size?
If not it needs to be done!
We can only Dream in the PSX version that we can have a 24 Member Party, that's one of the better things in War of the Lions in my opinion.
that would be awesome though, i hate the fate that i have to dimiss 5 of my members in order to fit guys like orlandeau and the byblos in my party.
I was excited about seeing new sprites,however, to my disappointment... none of the new ones even look like they match the game properly in the first place...
yes.
I was mainly disappointed by the slowdown of the battle animations. Not only were they slower but the sound effects did not sync with the animation.
The new classes were... underwhelming. Sure we get the Dark Knight but NONE of it's moves have original animations. Onion Knights are more for nostalgia rather then abilities. What I do like about the Dark Knight is that Females have access to Move +3.
Also the new characters just seemed to be slapped together of other jobs.
I did love the New Animations. Also More Character slots.
Also about 're balancing' sounds like something for a brand new game.
Quote from: "Donkeyton"...But that would have been more costly and time consuming an undertaking than Square-Enix probably deemed worthwhile, given the potential market size for the game on the PSP (quite small, if extremely loyal)...
... Square knew that the die-hard FFT fans would buy this game in any form, half-baked or otherwise, so long as it was baked at all. And honestly, I can't say I blame them. I'd rather have a flawed, but additional-content version of FFT on the PSP than no version at all...
...Square isn't going to release a game at a financial loss if at all possible. This is the cold, harsh reality of video game publishing.
The psp community is populated with pirates. This is a fact, I'm not saying that everyone who owns a psp pirates any or all of their games, but it does happen in large enough numbers to matter. If a company produces games, and sees that despite it being a popular game it doesn't sell well . . .well they aren't gonna put a whole lot of money into it.
I make it a point to purchase games that I thing have worth, WoTL is a huge example of this. I bought it as soon as I knew it existed, full retail from Wal-Mart. Yes from Wal-Mart, a company like this gets pull with a company like Square-Enix by having the ability to say "Well we have a bajillion stores in a bajillion countries and we see that people are buying *this particular* type of game." So in essence the act of purchasing this game tells the company that I want them to continue to produce this kind of game.
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions is not a disappointment, it is a marvelous standard to which others should be compared.
i was disappointed that the orator's name was changed to mediator.
The only disappointing aspects of the game for me were the slowdown and sound effects.
This game does seem to have problems, but I do not think that is a dissapointment. It's the best PSP game I've ever played. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, almost all PSP games blow. Honestly, the only ones I've actually been pleased with is Final Fantasy and Star Wars Battlefront games. I thought getting a PSP would be fantastic and that there would be really cool games, but I was a little dissapointed, until I got FFWoftL. I was ssoooo pleased. It's really a great game with a great story line. I wish the story was a little longer though and that Dark Knight wasn't so ridiculous to get to.
yep
big dissapointment
Quote from: "thisisstupid999"dissapointment.
qft
QuoteDo you think that, overall, WoTL is a disappointment?
Yes.
If this game was a disapointment, why would we all be actually on this website right now that was actually made specifically for this game and hacking it? We all obviously love this game, at least enought to go the trouble of hacking it and talk to random people online about it.
the site was originally for the original fft tho. theyre just saying that the WOTL version had a few disappointing aspects such as the gfx slowdown (which just kills the game for me as i love casting spells)
Yeah I'm with you on that. In the original FFT, the mages weren't quite as powerful, I think, but they're spells casted immediately, and I also miss Bangaa, Moogles, etc. being available to join you. I miss that...
@thisisstupid999 That would be Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced. Which came after the Original FFT. The Original FFT is the same as WotL except without some bonus things like weapons, multi-player, extra characters and jobs, etc. It was released like a long time ago on the Playstation One. Thats the game that brought this site together. In like 2008 they made the portedPSP version of the game and added a bunch of stuff to it like Onion Knight and Dark Knight, and bonus scenes and stuff. Essentially they're the EXACT game just with one being portable with bonus stuff and the original with a horrid translation lmao.
To me, WotL was not a major disappointment. I really didn't mind the slowdown at all when I first played WotL since I hadn't played the original since like 2001 so i never noticed it. I loved the new translation, it seemed to fit the time period they were trying to portray the game as. There are some broken things in the game and such, but it was, to me, a decent port of the original.
After getting the original again (since my first copy broke in 2001) i did notice the slowdown of the PSP version, it kinda did bothered me, but not too much. Yet, i still believe it was a good port and not a total disappointment.
@Miroshi Beshima
Oh how dumb of me. Sorry, I was thinking of the wrong game. Yes of course I know of the original one. I don't know what was going through my head. Just had one of those days I guess.
War of the Lions is the best game ever made. I swear if it didnt have the slowdown everyone would be raving over it instead of the original with the sloppy humerously bad translation. I personally got used to the slowdown really fast and it doesnt bother me at all.
Quote from: "Wiegraf"War of the Lions is the best game ever made. I swear if it didnt have the slowdown everyone would be raving over it instead of the original with the sloppy humerously bad translation. I personally got used to the slowdown really fast and it doesnt bother me at all.
If I could like a post, I would like yours lol.
Everyone always talks about a slowdown in the game. I have never experienced anything of the sort on the PSP game. What is it?
The special effects don't line up with the sound they make. Use Stasis Sword (or whatever they call it on the PSP), and you'll hear the effect hit before you see it hit.
Concerning the translation, I find it just as bad as the PSX one (though in different ways). Nostalgia however pushes the PSX one above the PSP one for me, though.
Quote from: "thisisstupid999"This game does seem to have problems, but I do not think that is a dissapointment. It's the best PSP game I've ever played. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, almost all PSP games blow. Honestly, the only ones I've actually been pleased with is Final Fantasy and Star Wars Battlefront games. I thought getting a PSP would be fantastic and that there would be really cool games, but I was a little dissapointed, until I got FFWoftL. I was ssoooo pleased. It's really a great game with a great story line. I wish the story was a little longer though and that Dark Knight wasn't so ridiculous to get to.
Well, it's fft, so obviously it's the best game for PSP. But wouldn't the original also be the best game for psp? I honestly don't believe you've ever played the original FFT. Without the original, there would be no psp version.
Plus, why not mention the slowdown? That IS the reason we hate it. And that stupid script.
Quote from: "Kaijyuu"The special effects don't line up with the sound they make. Use Stasis Sword (or whatever they call it on the PSP), and you'll hear the effect hit before you see it hit.
Concerning the translation, I find it just as bad as the PSX one (though in different ways). Nostalgia however pushes the PSX one above the PSP one for me, though.
I have encountered nothing of the sort on my game...
Quote from: "ffta707"Quote from: "thisisstupid999"This game does seem to have problems, but I do not think that is a dissapointment. It's the best PSP game I've ever played. Just in case anyone hasn't noticed, almost all PSP games blow. Honestly, the only ones I've actually been pleased with is Final Fantasy and Star Wars Battlefront games. I thought getting a PSP would be fantastic and that there would be really cool games, but I was a little dissapointed, until I got FFWoftL. I was ssoooo pleased. It's really a great game with a great story line. I wish the story was a little longer though and that Dark Knight wasn't so ridiculous to get to.
Well, it's fft, so obviously it's the best game for PSP. But wouldn't the original also be the best game for psp? I honestly don't believe you've ever played the original FFT. Without the original, there would be no psp version.
Plus, why not mention the slowdown? That IS the reason we hate it. And that stupid script.
No, I haven't played the original, and I don't care to. The differences sound dumb compared to what I'm used to, in my opinion. Also, I don't care what you hate and what you don't. It's of no concern of mine.
Quote from: "thisisstupid999"Quote from: "Kaijyuu"The special effects don't line up with the sound they make. Use Stasis Sword (or whatever they call it on the PSP), and you'll hear the effect hit before you see it hit.
Concerning the translation, I find it just as bad as the PSX one (though in different ways). Nostalgia however pushes the PSX one above the PSP one for me, though.
I have encountered nothing of the sort on my game...
I have.
Judgment Blade, is what it's called.
Really a horrible game if you ask me. Why would anyone change "Stasis Sword" to "Judgment Blade."
Quote from: "ffta707"I have.
Judgment Blade, is what it's called.
Really a horrible game if you ask me. Why would anyone change "Stasis Sword" to "Judgment Blade."
I must agree with you, some of the ability names are a little dumb sounding. "Stasis Sword" sounds much better than "Judgement Blade."
Hmm...maybe I'll use TacText and change the name's of all the ablilities to the names of the original WotL. That will be interesting...
I am quite fond of WOTL, but I also love the original.
For modding, I prefer the PSX version.
For playing through the game normally, and getting everything, I prefer WOTL.
For challenge runs, the original is the only way to go.
I actually like pretentious purple prose dialog, so I prefer the new translation.
F*ck the slow-down, if it really was going to be a problem, then gimp the graphics or something, but never, ever make a slow game slower.
I miss spell quotes and the dam fight, also, not being able to steal from Elmdore is really disappointing.
As for multi-player, I won the spouse lottery, my wife loves SRPGs too, so we just play multiplayer together. The multi-player fights are a lot of fun, and have a great deal of variety in them. Uber black chocobo with 10X HP and counters for 999 damage...
Overall it was a little disappointing, as there is no excuse for the slow-down, or removing the better aspects of the English PSX version. But I still love it.
Well I think the main issue was laziness. And I suspect tactical RPGs are harder to balance than the normal turn-based RPGs. I don't think anyone has a clue what they were thinking for the slowdown though.Am i right or not???
I think that WoTL was a fine game.
I could care less about the names of skills or such. Its the game its self. (Except Tailwind)
The games are basically the same thing. One is just portable and the other isn't.
Also I hear a lot that the game lags. I have yet to see this happen.
I personally don't care what version of the game I play, both are very mod-able and great games.
the lag = hell. and i agree with many people = everyone got used to the crappy translation of the original that the new one...doesn't seem right. I wouldn't consider it a disappointment though. I do think the storyline was much better explained, played out, though. For instance, in the first playthrough I ever did of the original FFT back in '98 I barely understood the storyline at all after Chap. 2, and with WoTL it makes it hell of alot clearer.
Quote from: "R-Alalia"Well I think the main issue was laziness. And I suspect tactical RPGs are harder to balance than the normal turn-based RPGs. I don't think anyone has a clue what they were thinking for the slowdown though.Am i right or not???
It cuts both ways...tactical RPGs have more variables than turn-based ones. This gives game makers more variables to add balance (and fun) with, but it also makes it harder to check every feature against the other.
Yes it was...
i'll just put it this way... i've played through the original tactics (vanilla version and gamesharked like crazy) 20+ full playthroughs. WotL... only finished it once.
when i think of all the cool things about the game... the stuff they added in WotL doesn't pop into my head. it just didn't really add to the game.
i would have preferred if they just made a more definitive/complete version, like having any bugs fixed and making it widescreen. i know they did that, and then some, but then they kept doing more to it, like adding 2 more random guest characters (even the original cloud was just to please all the FF7 fans out there) and changing all the script.
but the real kicker was after they fixed the bugs, then they added the worst bug of all... that damn skill graphic slowdown. QQ