Final Fantasy Hacktics

This the R999 holy place, where his loyal servants will reunite to pray for his mercy and to have theire life spared
Here we will post his pearls of wisdom about FFT 1.3 and more
I will start

1)

Quote from: "R999"Rafa has Low brave. No matter what you tell me there's no way you can convince me that a low brave character can be good for any reason at all. Reaction abilities are a huge part of the game. Most of the matches I have come to almost be dependent on them to trigger at least 70% of the time. This is a significant disadvantage compared to most generics. If you are going to keep a low brave character a good alternative, then you'll better make sure that this character is very worthwhile to go without a reaction ability.

Never heard of Abadon and weapon guard man? They don't use the Br value

2)

Quote from: "R999"The only time when I consider Oracle's skillset to be better is solely because of the MP Drain ability, which used right, can be game breaking

LULWUT?

3)

Quote from: "Voldemort"

Quote from: "R999"But that's not really what I was after. I guess I am more talking about this from the perspective of balancing the game's classes. To me it just makes more sense when Skillsets and Job multipliers alone should determine the balance of the classes, and not stat growths.

stat growths do NOT determine the balance of classes more than job multipliers and skillsets

4)

Quote from: "Zeron"

Quote from: "R999"I have never once said that I have done sufficient research. All I am saying is merely based on what I am familiar with and what I know. Obviously.

So shut the fuck up.  You admit that you don't know shit all, yet you insist that everyone entertain your ideas.  
If this is what you know then you need to go out and learn more.

5)

Quote from: "Zeron"

Quote from: "philsov"And, imo, yes, it should be this way; it's a conceptual thing.  Wouldn't you expect a career-long knight to have different stats than a career-long summoner?  Some weak-ass caster will have withered armed by that time while the knight wouldn't know the difference between Fairy and Golem.  

Quote from: "R999"Actually no I would not.

Someone who sits at a computer all day should definitely be just as strong as someone who works out everyday.  Obviously.  philsov is so dumb...

6)

Quote from: "philsov"

QuoteCan't you fix that by simply increasing the whoever boss's jump level so he can just jump out of the range? Is this possible?

wat

7)

Quote from: "R999"Considering Damage is the ONLY thing Hydras can do

Dark whisper hits 6 times and can inflict sleep - death
With monster skill they can use a special - instant version of Mbarrier on themself and on nearby dragons...
Are you sure that damage is the ONLY thing they can do?

8)
9 He/she started a whole project, only to leave it alone after 7.3 seconds 'cause Arch flamed him/her

10

Quote from: "philsov"And, imo, yes, it should be this way; it's a conceptual thing.  Wouldn't you expect a career-long knight to have different stats than a career-long summoner?  Some weak-ass caster will have withered armed by that time while the knight wouldn't know the difference between Fairy and Golem.  

Quote from: "R999"Actually no I would not.

Someone who sits at a computer all day should definitely be just as strong as someone who works out everyday.  Obviously.  philsov is so dumb...

lol this thread

Quote from: "Voldemort"lol this thread

This is meant to be a good or a bad thing?

neither

I'm saying it's funny

Quote from: "Voldemort"neither

I'm saying it's funny

Ah, I see

Genious

Updated with

add this PM he sent me after I moderated his topic

(http://i49.tinypic.com/wr5fl.png)

Thanks for your donation to our church, Voldemort
Your soul will be blessed

lol thanks for the thread.

If you actually spend time to read all the responses in those things, I stand corrected in each and everyone of those. With the exception of the last one about Hydras. 6.25% chance to inflict status, big fucking deal lol. Even hitting 6 times in a row, without miss, that''s nearly 70% to not inflict any status. Surely, that is the intended behavior. You mind as well call Agrais and Orlandu Status characters by your logic (and they are even better at it than the Hydra!)

But thankyou dome for taking the time to correct my mistakes.

Quote from: "R999"lol thanks for the thread.

If you actually spend time to read all the responses in those things, I stand corrected in each and everyone of those. With the exception of the last one about Hydras. 6.25% chance to inflict status, big fucking deal lol. Even hitting 6 times in a row, without miss, that''s nearly 70% to not inflict any status. Surely, that is the intended behavior. You mind as well call Agrais and Orlandu Status characters by your logic (and they are even better at it than the Hydra!)

But thankyou dome for taking the time to correct my mistakes.

Oddly enough Dragon PowerUp's effects aren't listed with the other ability stats.  It's easy to just look it up in the patcher though.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Oddly enough Dragon PowerUp's effects aren't listed with the other ability stats.  It's easy to just look it up in the patcher though.

There is an even easier way...try it in-game xD

True enough.  He should have one around if he's commenting on them.  How much JP does that support cost?  200?

Dome you are a genius.  This thread is an instant classic.

Quote from: "Dome"

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Oddly enough Dragon PowerUp's effects aren't listed with the other ability stats.  It's easy to just look it up in the patcher though.

There is an even easier way...try it in-game xD

Since when did we want to make players try out everything in the game? By the same token and your logic, what is the point of putting up a list of changes made at all? Why not just remove everything and let the players find out everything themselves

Instead of admitting that there was something missing in the guide, you go ahead and try to use it as an excuse.



By the way, you actually think Oracle's spell absorb is not a good spell? Or did I just forgotten that this is nothing but a troll. Surely I am expecting you must have an opinion too, about a spell of a game.

QuoteSince when did we want to make players try out everything in the game?

Vanilla.

I think the point is more that Oracle has a number of useful abilities that you are overlooking the usefulness of, not just that single spell, and there are other means of eliminating enemy MP that are more potent, even if they do need an extra Chakra or Ether than Oracle would.  Eliminating enemy MP prevents them from using their more useful options, which is better than leaving them a bit more than you would have just because you wanted a bit of MP healing at the same time.  It is good but hardly game breaking.


And seriously, why are you trying to defend yourself in THIS thread of all places?  No matter how rational you manage to be, doing so here is like suicide.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"

QuoteSince when did we want to make players try out everything in the game?

Vanilla.

I think the point is more that Oracle has a number of useful abilities that you are overlooking the usefulness of, not just that single spell, and there are other means of eliminating enemy MP that are more potent, even if they do need an extra Chakra or Ether than Oracle would.  Eliminating enemy MP prevents them from using their more useful options, which is better than leaving them a bit more than you would have just because you wanted a bit of MP healing at the same time.  It is good but hardly game breaking.


And seriously, why are you trying to defend yourself in THIS thread of all places?  No matter how rational you manage to be, doing so here is like suicide.

@silvasRuin,

Perhaps we have a disagreement in the Oracle's abilities. I juggle around Oracle / Summoner / Sage with my main casters. I am not denying in anyway at all that Oracles have great abilities. I love their skillset, but there is a lot of overlapping for the Oracle and the Sage. Spell Absorb is game breaking to me, about 30% of the battles I was able to burn up the enemy mages/swordskillers mana. We seem to agree with that part at least right?

Quoteother means of eliminating enemy MP that are more potent

Maybe I am mistaken, but other than Osafone (Samurai), and MP Ruin (Knight), what else is there? Osafone is a given. And I use Spell Absorb together with it (unless, I am at earlier levels of the game where I don't have access to the Saumrai sword). Used together with the Samurai's Osafone, I can safely say that you will never find anyone who can last 1 Osafone followed by 2 Spell Absorbs. Effectively making the enemies, including A LOT of the special class bosses, useless. If you don't believe me, I encourage you to try it out for yourself.

edit: I should also probably state that there are some ??? enemies that can be completely handicapped by Spell Absorbs, including a few Zodiac battles. At least for the one at the Dycedarg/Zalbaag battle. Draining 999 MP, you only need to cast Spell Absorb a few times. He'll do a counter magic to gain some mana back, afterwards he'll just whack you with physical attacks / other weak spells. According to the Master Guide, he has Spell Absorb too, but that didn't happen to me. And you can guess what would I do next even if he did.

Agreed that this isn't a good place to talk but whatever. At least I find Dome's posts to be entertaining enough.

"Since when did we want to make players try out everything in the game?"

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :lol:

Quote from: "Shade""Since when did we want to make players try out everything in the game?"

 :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :lol:

Awesome. We should delete the 1.3 Complete Guide right now! [/sarcasm]

I think you are even funnier when your dead enemies get resurrected to full life! Happens all the time!  Maybe you like getting hit by big spells like Hellcry Punch than a Physical Attack too while you are at it. MP burning is effective. And it's incredibly easy to do.

Witch Hunt (Dance) is by far the best way to remove MP imo.

Quote from: "FFMaster"Witch Hunt (Dance) is by far the best way to remove MP imo.

I knew someone was  going to say this. Dancers are okay. It's just a lot of fights where you need to strip away the enemy's MP in no less than 2 turns, is impossible using the Dancer. Maybe I should go make some videos if I were to play 1.3 again (maybe easytype next time).

I find they do it pretty quickly anyway. In 2 rounds, it activates like 5 times already, meaning a huge amount has already been killed. And its actually 100% accuracy, rather than being blockable like Magic Ruin.

Quote from: "FFMaster"I find they do it pretty quickly anyway. In 2 rounds, it activates like 5 times already, meaning a huge amount has already been killed. And its actually 100% accuracy, rather than being blockable like Magic Ruin.

That's the thing I like about Oracles, success rate is always 85-100%, 4 range, any facing direction-- for Spell Absrob, and from chapter 1-4 levels 1-90 it fires off instantly. Second best next to Samurai's Osafone (can do 200-400 MP damage in a single hit, 100% accuracy, multiple targets). Oracle's Spell Absorb is better for the Caster obviously. It's also totally gamebreaking against the ??? enemies (999 MP hell yes). You can be immune to status, but you can't be immune to 0 MP (only a handful of late game bosses can do something when they have more than 0 MP).

I have used Dancer's witch dance with some degree of success, but it wasn't good enough for me (even with dual dancers). Even hitting 10 witch hunts sometimes can't drain all of their mana. By that time, its usefulness would have been diminished.

You actually bother to kill MP lategame? I thought you only meant early game...

For Zodiacs, just forget it. Mind Ruin and Power Ruin are enough. I wouldn't ever waste my time killing 9999 MP.

The Draw Out is ok, but I find it easier to just anti-sandbag with them via Asura/Kotetsu/whatever.

Even during the normal game, I wouldn't bother with it too much. It just provokes Elixir/Chakra spam once Chapter 4 starts.

Quote from: "FFMaster"You actually bother to kill MP lategame? I thought you only meant early game...

For Zodiacs, just forget it. Mind Ruin and Power Ruin are enough. I wouldn't ever waste my time killing 9999 MP.

The Draw Out is ok, but I find it easier to just anti-sandbag with them via Asura/Kotetsu/whatever.

Even during the normal game, I wouldn't bother with it too much. It just provokes Elixir/Chakra spam once Chapter 4 starts.

Yeah but the funny thing is the AI don't use Elixir to restore mana. Rarely uses Chakra to restore MP as well (if they are in combat range, and is full HP). Sometimes I even suck their MP while they are sleeping/confused. Just incase they become active again. Chapter 4 uses are limited but not much. Because this has been my dominant strategy, I have found that there are actually a lot of units without the ability to use Item / Chakra. Even those Mages who has access to Chakra, it takes them at least 2-3 turns to get enough mana for 1 spell (enough for you to do anything to them). Osafone is a St.AJORA class ability (instantly make 2+ mages/swordskillers useless in chapter 4 is a lovely sight). If they actually attempt to use Hi-ether, Chakra, or even Elixir, just rape their mana again (either with Osafone or dual Spell Absorbs). It's even more effective when you get to rape their mana while they are casting (waste another turn, the most common scenario actually).

One fight on top of my head where Mana burn is incredibly powerful is the battle with the zombie Zalbaag. Instantly raped the demons and Zalbaag's mana to 0 is pure win. There are many battles like this for Story and some random fights as well. Usually it makes things like Stealing much easier when they are out of mana. I don't think most Zodiacs actually have 9999MP, they have somewhere like 3000 or less? Not sure. Just a few Spell Absorbs it's gg.

For normal battles ->

Damage > MP Damage, especially considering you have so much of the former compared to the latter. Unless it is a durable boss unit, stuff post-Chapter 2 will typically go down in 3 attacks at most and it will force the AI to rez-chain which is more advantageous than just disabling one unit with MP draining. Zalmo was pretty much the only battle I used MP Ruins in (Bizen Boat / Osafune) and I still didn't feel it was necessary as my team could cope with the occasional Raise2's pretty well at that point. For all the other assassination missions, it's usually just a bumrush, MP Ruins aren't useful at all considering their whole team rapes you sideways either way (Balk, Murond battles).

QuoteOsafone is a St.AJORA class ability (instantly make 2+ mages/swordskillers useless in chapter 4 is a lovely sight). If they actually attempt to use Hi-ether, Chakra, or even Elixir, just rape their mana again (either with Osafone or dual Spell Absorbs). It's even more effective when you get to rape their mana while they are casting (waste another turn, the most common scenario actually).

Hmm... "Attack" and "AoE Damaging Abilities" are top-tier abilities. Instantly make 1 or more units useless / force them to run away in chapter 4 is certainly lovely. If they actually attempt to use Phoenix Down, X-Potion or even Elixir, just rape their HP again. It's even more effective when you get to mow them down while they are casting (yay for 100% hit + increased melee damage!)

For Zodiacs ->

MP breaking doesn't help much if at all considering Mind Ruin does the job much better, perhaps even baiting the AI into casting weak spells. Furthermore, Mind Ruin typically goes faster, and the Zodiacs that are heavily reliant on MP have other alternatives (Queklain, Adramelk).

THIS IS SPAM, DON'T EXPLAIN, JUST HATE!

OK then.

I hate your avatar, which is why its blocked.

Quote from: "FFMaster"OK then.

I hate your avatar, which is why its blocked.

good

Spam needs more quality posts.

Quote from: "Aquilae"Spam needs MOAR KRABS

Dome, seriously, where the fuck do you find all of these random videos?

Quote from: "Portmanteur"Dome, seriously, DO YOU fuck all of these random videos?

Not all, just some

Congratulations, R999; It seems like you are famous on the internetz.

ETA: Speaking of crabs... http://bagofcrabs.com/ (http://bagofcrabs.com/)

Quote from: "Aquilae"it's usually just a bumrush,

I see what you did thar!

I realize this is the spam section, but who cares?

@Aquilae,

QuoteFor normal battles ->

Damage > MP Damage, especially considering you have so much of the former compared to the latter. Unless it is a durable boss unit, stuff post-Chapter 2 will typically go down in 3 attacks at most and it will force the AI to rez-chain which is more advantageous than just disabling one unit with MP draining. Zalmo was pretty much the only battle I used MP Ruins in (Bizen Boat / Osafune) and I still didn't feel it was necessary as my team could cope with the occasional Raise2's pretty well at that point. For all the other assassination missions, it's usually just a bumrush, MP Ruins aren't useful at all considering their whole team rapes you sideways either way (Balk, Murond battles).

It depends on the battle. I don't understand why you would say Damage > MP Damage (normal battle) because there is more HP (former is more than the latter)? Post chapter 2 indeed, most units go down in less than 3 hits if they don't have support. But have you considered that, if you mana burn, sometimes they go down in ONE hit as opposed to 3? The part about the burning Zalmo's MP isn't because you needed it, it's because, if you teleport to him and Osafone him once, the match is already over (Delita should be able to nearly solo the map by himself with some help). This works not just for this particular battle. On top of my head, the battle with Meliadoul, you wouldn't even need to wear Maintenance. Lure her to walk close to you by waiting (she still out of range), and start off the fight with Osafone + MP Absrob (100% success rate). The match is already over at that point. Yes, it's possible to win these fights by other means of course, but what I am saying here is that MP breaking gives the player an immensively easier playing experience (in fact, a lot of these battles are even easier than Vanilla because Swordskillers require MP). On a personal note about Assasination battles, I always kill the target last whenever possible. I will kill every unit in the map and wait for them to Crystalize, steal all their items, and then finally go rape the MP-less boss. It's just more fun this way. I say MP Damage >= HP Damage depending on context and your goals.

QuoteHmm... "Attack" and "AoE Damaging Abilities" are top-tier abilities. Instantly make 1 or more units useless / force them to run away in chapter 4 is certainly lovely. If they actually attempt to use Phoenix Down, X-Potion or even Elixir, just rape their HP again. It's even more effective when you get to mow them down while they are casting (yay for 100% hit + increased melee damage!)

What happens if you can't kill the target, especially when they have so much more HP than MP. Two Sages are charging nukes on you, Oracles firing off Confusion and Sleep. All you have to do is teleport in, and Osafone the mofos, and then they will almost always be permanently screwed, for the rest of the battle. How can you possibly achieve this with an AoE attack that probably need at least 3-4 turns to kill them off? The AI is usually very smart about who to Phoenix Down/Raise2, they tend to raise people who will have a turn immediately after. So you'll ultimately have to go and kill these ressurected targets again, possibly after they get another turn (perhaps even Elixir themselves). A dead target with 0 MP is far less of a thread compared to a dead target with full MP. In fact, sometimes I prefer them to have 0 MP + Sleeping than Dead, because the AI tend to ignore sleeping targets more than dead targets. Unless you can instant kill them 100% of the time (and in range), there's absolutely no way you can be as effective when you could drain off their MP in a distance. I guess my point here is that raping their MP is FAR more easier than raping their HP (in the right context of course).

QuoteFor Zodiacs ->

MP breaking doesn't help much if at all considering Mind Ruin does the job much better, perhaps even baiting the AI into casting weak spells. Furthermore, Mind Ruin typically goes faster, and the Zodiacs that are heavily reliant on MP have other alternatives (Queklain, Adramelk).

Agreed. But as I have said there are still a lot of Zodiac battles where they are still prone to MP damage (and it's easy, 999MP per Spell Absrob, 100% success rate, any facing direction, 4 range). I use a combination of MA break (usually with Mustadio with Two Swords) and MP damage to absolutely cripple these fights. Far more effective than just doing HP Damage and MA break alone.



Oh, and Dome loves his avatar.

Quote from: "R999"I realize this is the spam section, but who cares?

@Aquilae,

QuoteFor normal battles ->

Damage > MP Damage, especially considering you have so much of the former compared to the latter. Unless it is a durable boss unit, stuff post-Chapter 2 will typically go down in 3 attacks at most and it will force the AI to rez-chain which is more advantageous than just disabling one unit with MP draining. Zalmo was pretty much the only battle I used MP Ruins in (Bizen Boat / Osafune) and I still didn't feel it was necessary as my team could cope with the occasional Raise2's pretty well at that point. For all the other assassination missions, it's usually just a bumrush, MP Ruins aren't useful at all considering their whole team rapes you sideways either way (Balk, Murond battles).

It depends on the battle. I don't understand why you would say Damage > MP Damage (normal battle) because there is more HP (former is more than the latter)? Post chapter 2 indeed, most units go down in less than 3 hits if they don't have support. But have you considered that, if you mana burn, sometimes they go down in ONE hit as opposed to 3? The part about the burning Zalmo's MP isn't because you needed it, it's because, if you teleport to him and Osafone him once, the match is already over (Delita should be able to nearly solo the map by himself with some help). This works not just for this particular battle. On top of my head, the battle with Meliadoul, you wouldn't even need to wear Maintenance. Lure her to walk close to you by waiting (she still out of range), and start off the fight with Osafone + MP Absrob (100% success rate). The match is already over at that point. Yes, it's possible to win these fights by other means of course, but what I am saying here is that MP breaking gives the player an immensively easier playing experience (in fact, a lot of these battles are even easier than Vanilla because Swordskillers require MP). On a personal note about Assasination battles, I always kill the target last whenever possible. I will kill every unit in the map and wait for them to Crystalize, steal all their items, and then finally go rape the MP-less boss. It's just more fun this way. I say MP Damage >= HP Damage depending on context and your goals.

QuoteHmm... "Attack" and "AoE Damaging Abilities" are top-tier abilities. Instantly make 1 or more units useless / force them to run away in chapter 4 is certainly lovely. If they actually attempt to use Phoenix Down, X-Potion or even Elixir, just rape their HP again. It's even more effective when you get to mow them down while they are casting (yay for 100% hit + increased melee damage!)

What happens if you can't kill the target, especially when they have so much more HP than MP. Two Sages are charging nukes on you, Oracles firing off Confusion and Sleep. All you have to do is teleport in, and Osafone the mofos, and then they will almost always be permanently screwed, for the rest of the battle. How can you possibly achieve this with an AoE attack that probably need at least 3-4 turns to kill them off? The AI is usually very smart about who to Phoenix Down/Raise2, they tend to raise people who will have a turn immediately after. So you'll ultimately have to go and kill these ressurected targets again, possibly after they get another turn (perhaps even Elixir themselves). A dead target with 0 MP is far less of a thread compared to a dead target with full MP. In fact, sometimes I prefer them to have 0 MP + Sleeping than Dead, because the AI tend to ignore sleeping targets more than dead targets. Unless you can instant kill them 100% of the time (and in range), there's absolutely no way you can be as effective when you could drain off their MP in a distance. I guess my point here is that raping their MP is FAR more easier than raping their HP (in the right context of course).

QuoteFor Zodiacs ->

MP breaking doesn't help much if at all considering Mind Ruin does the job much better, perhaps even baiting the AI into casting weak spells. Furthermore, Mind Ruin typically goes faster, and the Zodiacs that are heavily reliant on MP have other alternatives (Queklain, Adramelk).

Agreed. But as I have said there are still a lot of Zodiac battles where they are still prone to MP damage (and it's easy, 999MP per Spell Absrob, 100% success rate, any facing direction, 4 range). I use a combination of MA break (usually with Mustadio with Two Swords) and MP damage to absolutely cripple these fights. Far more effective than just doing HP Damage and MA break alone.



Oh, and Dome loves his avatar.

:ban:

:ban:

:gay: :ban:

EDIT: fail :(

Quote from: "R999"The AI is usually very smart about who to Phoenix Down/Raise2, they tend to raise people who will have a turn immediately after. So you'll ultimately have to go and kill these ressurected targets again, possibly after they get another turn (perhaps even Elixir themselves).

No, they aren't smart at all. The enemy try to revive at all costs. To counter PD, use Geomancy. Kills off the revived unit, hits the other, chance of status. For Raise 2, hit them with a physical. Wow, they can't cast it anymore!!!!

Quote from: "R999"But as I have said there are still a lot of Zodiac battles where they are still prone to MP damage

Please, give me an example. A specific one. All I've heard is "Zodiac battles" continuously.

Quote from: "R999"It depends on the battle. I don't understand why you would say Damage > MP Damage (normal battle) because there is more HP (former is more than the latter)? Post chapter 2 indeed, most units go down in less than 3 hits if they don't have support. But have you considered that, if you mana burn, sometimes they go down in ONE hit as opposed to 3?

wtf?

QuoteThe part about the burning Zalmo's MP isn't because you needed it, it's because, if you teleport to him and Osafone him once, the match is already over (Delita should be able to nearly solo the map by himself with some help).

Zalmo has a large pool of MP, meaning that if you Osafune him once it won't deplete his MP fully, he can still casts around 2-3 Raise2s. Zalmo still has Item meaning he can sandbag you to hell even if you repeatedly drain his MP. Besides, Delita can't cope with Zalmo's guys which have lots of sandbag capabilities ensuring that he will go down eventually.

QuoteThis works not just for this particular battle. On top of my head, the battle with Meliadoul, you wouldn't even need to wear Maintenance. Lure her to walk close to you by waiting (she still out of range), and start off the fight with Osafone + MP Absrob (100% success rate). The match is already over at that point. Yes, it's possible to win these fights by other means of course, but what I am saying here is that MP breaking gives the player an immensively easier playing experience (in fact, a lot of these battles are even easier than Vanilla because Swordskillers require MP).

Or you could steal / break Meliadoul's weapon, the latter of which is much easier than relying on tricky positioning. It simply requires a guy with a Gun and Battle Skill, and a bit of luck, and you've defanged her without needing to Osafune + MP Absorb, the latter of which is very risky considering the Ninjas and Archers running around.

QuoteOn a personal note about Assasination battles, I always kill the target last whenever possible. I will kill every unit in the map and wait for them to Crystalize, steal all their items, and then finally go rape the MP-less boss. It's just more fun this way. I say MP Damage >= HP Damage depending on context and your goals.

A list of the post C2 Assassination battles (because the earlier ones bar Wiegraf needed you to kill off the team before taking down the target, as you can't really "assassinate" the boss):

Riovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

I'm not seeing many worthwhile items to steal. The only bosses which are useless when out of MP are Meliadoul, Dycedarg and Zalbag. Meliadoul can be disabled by easier means, while Dycedarg's guys don't have useful equipment to steal, and Zalbag is running around killing stuff anyway. The Demons don't give you anything in the case of Zalbag, unless you want Remedies and useable items.

All the rest of the bosses still rape you without MP, and it isn't a viable strategy at all to disable them. The only item which is truly unique is the Chaos Blade from Rofel at Murond Temple, in which you can't disable any one of them (700+ damage melee / Swordskills say hi). The Oracle at Balk I has a Whale Whisker, but that is poachable and isn't a useful item either way. Balk I anally rapes most units, making trying to obtain it more trouble than it's worth.

QuoteWhat happens if you can't kill the target, especially when they have so much more HP than MP. Two Sages are charging nukes on you, Oracles firing off Confusion and Sleep. All you have to do is teleport in, and Osafone the mofos, and then they will almost always be permanently screwed, for the rest of the battle. How can you possibly achieve this with an AoE attack that probably need at least 3-4 turns to kill them off?

All you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over. Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy. Charging just makes units very vulnerable, and given your description it should be a cakewalk. 4 Ninjas, rush in and one-shot the mofos. They can even pull off a tanky setup due to the relative frailness of the casters, not needing a lot of power to take them down.

This also begs the question: what about the rest of the scrubs? Physical enemies are more common than spellcasting enemies, and it is doubtful whether MP Draining is a viable strategy as it doesn't help with ~60% of the enemies.

FFM already addressed the other stuff.

Quote from: "Aquilae"Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy

Velius, but destroying his MA is better than using mp absorb on him
That's why R999 sucks, he doesn't even understand the game

Quote from: "Dome"

Quote from: "Aquilae"Also, I've never heard of a single battle in 1.3 that is so Magic-heavy

Velius, but destroying his MA is better than using mp absorb on him
That's why R999 sucks, he doesn't even understand the game

I never said destroying MP is better than destroying MA. *rolls eyes. When I get the chance to play 1.3 again I'll list the battles out. It does not have to be Magic-heavy. In any fight where there are a few casters, it can make a huge difference in a fight. For instance, do you consider Zalbaag Magic Heavy? It does not have to be that way. Unless you meant to say MP-heavy.


@Aquilae, seems we have come to a disagreement. That's fine I will hold my opinion you hold yours. We are playing the same game. Zalmo is owned after one or two Osafones, or with help of a Spell Absorb. I don't remember on top of my head. So what if he has Item, it didn't matter when I was fighting him. He was trying to use Phoenix Downs and X-Potions throughout the battle more than anything else. Managed to  use Hi-Ether before getting sucked out instantly again. I haven't seen this guy cast Raise2 once. Delita can solo the map with little support.

QuoteRiovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

Bervenia Free City - How is a little Wait command and initial position = Tricky? I don't even need luck in this fight. As I have said previously, Osafone and Spell Absorbs are 100%  and 85% spells. Weapon Breaking with a gun, is surely a lot more risky.

Outside of Church - If your Samurai/Osafone is weak, or you have bad Zodiac compatibility, you will have a harder time to suck his MP. I certainly did not.

Bed Dessert - There's one oracle here that can be rendered useless with one Osafone. No need MP draining abilities in this fight.

Inside of Igros Castle - There is one or two Knights that can has magic here. And if sometimes they tend to do PA/MA breaks (I hate these) on you or Zalbag. In this fight, I still strip their MP anyway - makes it slightly easier and more fun.

Hall of St. Murond Temple - if this is the fight with the Holy Priest with Swordskills, the same Osafone can rape his mana to 50 MP in one shot. Making this fight significantly easier.



I can assure you that there are a lot more battles in 1.3 where there are situations where using such a strategy will make it significantly easier throughout the game.

QuoteAll you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over.

The difference here is, if you can't kill them in one turn, their spells will fire off and you will eat it. Even if you can, they will be resurrected with some degree of threat, where if they are killed with no mana, they become even less of a threat.


PS: @FFM, I never said I had trouble with countering PD once. There are a ton of ways to counter that. Short-charge Raise2 or instant-cast Raise2s are more problematic. I also find that Geomancy has poor vertical radius. I prefer using Summons and Lightning Stab/Stasis Sword for these over Geomancy.

Quote from: "R999"I never said destroying MP is better than destroying MA. *rolls eyes. When I get the chance to play 1.3 again I'll list the battles out. It does not have to be Magic-heavy. In any fight where there are a few casters, it can make a huge difference in a fight. For instance, do you consider Zalbaag Magic Heavy? It does not have to be that way. Unless you meant to say MP-heavy.

What I meant was battles with a lot of casters. When there are a few casters, midcharging them and targeting them first would make a huge difference. The only battles where you have that much casters in your example are battles with multiple demons, in which case their MP / HP would be too high to care about.

Quote@Aquilae, seems we have come to a disagreement. That's fine I will hold my opinion you hold yours. We are playing the same game. Zalmo is owned after one or two Osafones, or with help of a Spell Absorb. I don't remember on top of my head. So what if he has Item, it didn't matter when I was fighting him. He was trying to use Phoenix Downs and X-Potions throughout the battle more than anything else. Managed to  use Hi-Ether before getting sucked out instantly again. I haven't seen this guy cast Raise2 once. Delita can solo the map with little support.

Contradiction much?

QuoteRiovanes Rooftop
At the gate of Limberry Castle
Inside of Limberry Castle
Bervenia Free City (Meliadoul)
Outside of the Church (Zalmo)
Bed Desert (Balk I)
Inside of Igros Castle (Dycedarg)
Hall of St. Murond Temple
Chapel of St. Murond Temple (Zombag)
Murond Holy Place x3 (Balk, Kletian, Rofel)

QuoteBervenia Free City - How is a little Wait command and initial position = Tricky? I don't even need luck in this fight. As I have said previously, Osafone and Spell Absorbs are 100%  and 85% spells. Weapon Breaking with a gun, is surely a lot more risky.

Outside of Church - If your Samurai/Osafone is weak, or you have bad Zodiac compatibility, you will have a harder time to suck his MP. I certainly did not.

Bed Dessert - There's one oracle here that can be rendered useless with one Osafone. No need MP draining abilities in this fight.

Inside of Igros Castle - There is one or two Knights that can has magic here. And if sometimes they tend to do PA/MA breaks (I hate these) on you or Zalbag. In this fight, I still strip their MP anyway - makes it slightly easier and more fun.

Hall of St. Murond Temple - if this is the fight with the Holy Priest with Swordskills, the same Osafone can rape his mana to 50 MP in one shot. Making this fight significantly easier.

Will Meliadoul move up all the time? Will the Archer up top rush forward and snipe your guys? Will the Ninjas run up and Throw stuff at you? Will your Osafune user + Spell Absorb caster be put at unnecessary risk facing those Ninjas? A Weapon Breaking unit doesn't take up two slots, can disable Meliadoul all the same and stay back to support. Meliadoul won't be Swordskilling at all, if her MP is depleted she can still SS with the help of a Hi-Ether.

Zalmo is still dangerous when out of MP, and he has no lack of MP Recovery / other options. Besides, to deal with him you often have to go through his team, which is a challenge in itself. MP Draining will stop Raise2s, and that's it.

Hall of St. Murond is Rofel, Vormav and Kletian.

The point I'm trying to make is that in Assassination Missions, that strategy of yours is not viable at all.

QuoteI can assure you that there are a lot more battles in 1.3 where there are situations where using such a strategy will make it significantly easier throughout the game.

What are they?

Quote

QuoteAll you have to do is teleport in, melee the mofos, and you permanently screw them and their Item-happy teammates over.

The difference here is, if you can't kill them in one turn, their spells will fire off and you will eat it. Even if you can, they will be resurrected with some degree of threat, where if they are killed with no mana, they become even less of a threat.

The difference is, if you Osafune them as opposed to killing them, you cannot disable their teammates as well, which will no doubt pose a threat to your guys / restore MP to the casters. If you kill one of them, the enemy team loses two turns, one for the caster and the other for the scrub that attempts rezzing. Also, I think you're overestimating the durability of the casters

QuotePS: @FFM, I never said I had trouble with countering PD once. There are a ton of ways to counter that. Short-charge Raise2 or instant-cast Raise2s are more problematic. I also find that Geomancy has poor vertical radius. I prefer using Summons and Lightning Stab/Stasis Sword for these over Geomancy.

I don't think you understand. His point was countering PD > countering Hi-Ether / a flood of melee guys who aren't forced to rez.

R999, I don't exactly see why your strategy is necessary.  If your mission is to KO the boss, the easiest way is to usually bring a super-offensive team and focus fire on the boss.  Your indirect method exposes you to more attacks, especially since a unit with 0 MP can still deal decent damage (unless he's a mage), while a unit with 0 HP can't.

Quote from: "formerdeathcorps"R999, I don't exactly see why your strategy is necessary.  If your mission is to KO the boss, the easiest way is to usually bring a super-offensive team and focus fire on the boss.  Your indirect method exposes you to more attacks, especially since a unit with 0 MP can still deal decent damage (unless he's a mage), while a unit with 0 HP can't.

Oracles can do massive book damage and stick damage.

why are you guys insisting with this,he'll always say that MP Damage is better and blabla and units do not restore MP and blabla,just ignore it.

btw,with his strategy,he has to act more,meaning that he gets more exp,which will occasionally means overlevel,also,units do restore MP with a certain frequency,in a different patch,units often use Elixirs/Hi-Ethers/Chackra for MP purposes,a good example was 1x1 Wiegraf using Chackra to restore MP many times during the battle and he dont even ran out of MP or had low HP,and he used it a few times when full health and about 20% of his MP

(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm203/PX_Timefordeath/20p4w7b.jpg)

He died?

MP draining in Chapter 4 is useless you say?

Quote from: "Dokurider"MP draining in Chapter 4 is useless you say?

MP Draining is not useless, but it isn't gamebreaking, at all

Updated
Read the first post

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"

spoiler: My theory:2j6zwr9o

R999 = Voldemort. You know, like in fight club.

could be