What I was thinking the other day was something along the lines of this:
QuotePotshot (tentative name) :
Deals 7/8 Weapon damage. Unevadable.
The reasoning behind this attack is to encourage different builds of Archers rather then it's current state of "Concentrate or GTFO". I wanted it to be so that an Archer can still be effective without Concentrate.
I get 7/8 from wanting "Potshot" to be weaker than your regular attack, yet if you had Attack Up equipped on, "Potshot" will be stronger than your regular attack if you didn't equip Attack Up.
QuotePoison Shot:
Deals Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Poison.
This attack would be the attack you'd spam the most.
QuoteBlinding Shot:
Deals Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Blind.
You would also spam this attack a lot if your front-line units have high evasion. Maybe not.
QuoteSilencing Shot:
Deals Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Silence.
Great vs. Mages.
QuoteSlowing Shot:
Deals Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Slow.
Great way to impede advancement of enemy units.
QuoteSlick Shot:
Deals Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Oil.
I'd be okay if this had to go. It's designed to soften up targets for Wizard and any other types packing fire.
QuoteFlaming Shot:
Deals Fire Elemental Weapon damage.
Self-Explanatory.
QuoteKilling Shot:
Deals Half of Weapon damage with 25% chance of adding Dead.
Should be used as a last-ditch effort.
I don't think that Charge is an effective skillset for the Archer at all. At best, it's somewhat effective, acting as a small damage supplement, but is usually worthless. I think this skillset is much more effective for Archers, and might be effective for others as well.
Thoughts, comments, suggestions?
If we could somehow cause both Charge +X and some other skills to work within the same skillset, I think it'd be a lot better off. The same can be said for Jump as well -- both of those skillsets could use some supplimentary skills like above to help round them out.
Quote from: "philsov"If we could somehow cause both Charge +X and some other skills to work within the same skillset, I think it'd be a lot better off. The same can be said for Jump as well -- both of those skillsets could use some supplimentary skills like above to help round them out.
Charging Jump?
In fact, that's a great idea.
Think about it. Jump, Jump+1, Jump+2, Jump+3, Jump+4, Jump+5, Jump+7, Jump+10, Jump+20. Each +1 takes off 1 speed for the Jump Calculation to compensate.
Thatsa fucking great idea doku!
i wonder how hard itd be to fine the block of code charge/jump is in... this would take alot more space than what im alloted in battle.bin
*speculates in a dark corner*
Honestly, I don't think it would be that hard. I'd imagine the most complicated part would be the -1 speed aspect. Otherwise, it's just an issue of adding Jump to Charge+X. (Jump is considered a status, right?)
Then again, I only play a coder on TV.
while on the subject of jump, I can't find its animation on the patcher
anyone know why?
erm, I was more talking about allowing the Charge skillset to have both Charge +5 and Poison arrow and not somehow glitch. Can Charge +X work outside of a skillset marked Charge? Can an ability in a skillset flagged for Charge still work?
You -could- mark up some abilities to act just like charge -- that is, swordskill formula, weapon range for effect area, and +PA and CTR variables to set as needed -- but that involves ability consolidation. I'm talking about the real Charge skills here >_>.
Jump is a little more tricky, I haven't toyed much with the jump status. Still, additional abilities would be a welcome addition to both skillsets.
Quote from: "akwikone"while on the subject of jump, I can't find its animation on the patcher
anyone know why?
it doesn't have one in the patcher
its a skill use animation, like how when you cast magic they collect energy or when you summon you see those orbs, or when u use a sword skill they swing a sword
http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... c&start=20 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=888&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20)
oh, ok, thanks Zozma
also, those abilites sound great but how... i mean without sacrificing other skills
Is there the same issue with throw?
Can we add different skills with it that work?
I would love to see better ninja skills, leave shuriken and ball but drop the rest for some real ninja action.
I think throw is okay, actually.
no i dont think you can, like any comand using items i think they are sensitive to that sort of thing arent they?
Yes they are... oh gods... yes they are... Ninja, Dragoon, Geomancer, Chemist, Samurai! Bah! All so case sensitive it is mind boggling!
I'm dumping all those skill sets in my hack in favor of more 'interesting' ones.
Ninja is getting a Ninjutsu set with the old ninja spells and hopefully I'll be able to make a skill similar to throw. I imaging it'll require some ASM to get working correctly. especially if I want it to consume shuriken etc.
Dragoon is getting a set with dragon breaths and a better set of jump skills. especially since we can already make functional jump skills with varying ct's.
I have no problem with Geomancy as is.
Chemist is a bit of a problem. I have to test out that 'all units have item command' hack. I'm hoping that it grants all skills by default to all units so that I can give chemists a completely different skillset. But it'll probably be another hassle.
Samurai aren't as much of a problem now that we can turn the % chance of breaking katanas down to 0. They'll probably get a new skillset anyway though.
Since my hack won't feature any generic units at all I'll be able to avoid those little problems from using them with alternate skillsets.
That was actually a mistake on my part, Vanya... it was a guess I made a long time ago that just happened to be an eerie coincidence, I assure you, unique character or not, if you deviate from the initial skillset of those five jobs there will be repercussions down the line.
Out of curiosity, what would be the repercussions of changing Lancer and Ninja skillsets? Less abilities available for the patch, or something worse?
Broken skillsets, they plain will not work, very well at all.
but can't you bypass that, through either flagging them normal and putting in "standard" abilities or simply dumping some standard abilities into an otherwise blank skillset and assigning it to that class?
That you cannot, the game is very finnicky with what skills are assigned to what skillset, in example... the game only stores the JP and JP gained of your Main skillset and the generic skillsets. This makes getting by much more difficult. If you equip a self made skillset in place of a job, the result will be Chance To Learn%, when used in battle, regardless of what skills you've already "learned". Now if you change abilities for some classes (such as Samurai) you get a few interesting results... but all in all, unusable, for instance, the items it reads seems to be set in a strange way, Putting Cure and Cure 2 will opt the game to want to use a Defense Ring and Magic Ring (if Memory serves right) though by doing this nothing happens, if it could, it would make some people's work a bit easier. Changing them to "normal skillsets" doesn't seem to do a thing.
Quote from: "Dokurider"Honestly, I don't think it would be that hard. I'd imagine the most complicated part would be the -1 speed aspect. Otherwise, it's just an issue of adding Jump to Charge+X. (Jump is considered a status, right?)
Then again, I only play a coder on TV.
Thats relativley easy, and wouldnt be any trouble
The hard part is finding the code that executes jump/charge function. as far as i can tell, all i see is the damage formula, not that long list of hex
okay so i have a few questions, vanya says that they are able to make jumps now, but are you having the same trouble i am where they dont display the damage that they deal?
and about these jobs, what about using a blank skillset creating your own stuff and assigning that to the jobs like samurai? is that included in the bugs you are referring to?
well, this is quite the long shot, but here goes...
-for 'Charge' skillset, i would delete the samurai's 'Draw Out' and rename all of his abilities after arrows
-change the graphics (menu screen graphics) to look like different types of arrows
-change the 'Broken!' message into 'Lost!'
-changing the 'chance of break' to bee 100% for all of them
-changing the attack animations/graphics to be regular attacks with appropriate SFX's.
the better arrows will not be cheap and the even better arrows won't even be sold (gotten through poaching, battle rewards, etc.). like the 'Throw' skillset, each skill will be only 100 JP to learn, and can be used as long as the arrow is available
examples:
- Baobab Arrow: deals normal damage, has 2 extra range (btw, has anyone ever tried placing range = 2 while the 'weapon range' boolean is checked?)
- Iron Arrow: (PA+Sp+K)/2 * WP basically, this can be used for more than one arrow, with a higher constant for stronger ones
- Composite Shaft: never misses
- Razor Shaft: always critical
- Mage Slayer: 50% chance of silence OR does half damage (to the MP)
- Toxic Needle: half damage, always poisons
- Dragon/Zombie Slayer: 1HKO on the appropriate creature
- Divine Trinity: high damage, holy element, rare (only given as a story battle reward); uses 'Dispose' graphic
@Zoz: I haven't tested it in a long while so I can't say. I don't remember running into that problem, though.
@BB: That's interesting, but I wonder how much editing this would require since we really don't have an arrow animation to work with yet?
its just that the way i got it to work, it doesnt display damage even tho it actually does it.
Had another brainstorm yesterday about knights. It's kinda in the same vein as the Archer skillset suggestion.
What if Knights' Item break skill did damage and had a chance of breaking whatever item? Weapon formula and PA+whatever% chance to break item? That would turn Knights from an 'okay' class to an awesome class.
Why would you ever use the basic attack, then?
Maybe half or 3/4 damage and the % to break, sure.
yeah for an instant skill that doesnt cost mp
Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Why would you ever use the basic attack, then?
So? Knights should be destructive. I don't see a problem with being able to augment your attack.
Quote from: "Vanya"@BB: That's interesting, but I wonder how much editing this would require since we really don't have an arrow animation to work with yet?
you use the same animation every skill that "strikes" uses, but the SFX will be something different, like for say 'Dragon Slayer' it could do the Stop [Breath] SFX
Quote from: "Dokurider"Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Why would you ever use the basic attack, then?
So? Knights should be destructive. I don't see a problem with being able to augment your attack.
Every offensive class "should be destructive." Giving abilities that are 100% better than the basic attack in every way invalidates the basic attack's existence. It, like every other ability, should have a niche (and not as a stepping stone; those are pointless).
Besides, it's annoying to navigate through a menu for the same ability every time.
Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Quote from: "Dokurider"Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Why would you ever use the basic attack, then?
So? Knights should be destructive. I don't see a problem with being able to augment your attack.
Every offensive class "should be destructive." Giving abilities that are 100% better than the basic attack in every way invalidates the basic attack's existence. It, like every other ability, should have a niche (and not as a stepping stone; those are pointless).
Besides, it's annoying to navigate through a menu for the same ability every time.
I really don't see why you're so opposed to this. It's just Basic Attack+Item Break.
Besides, it's not "100% better in every way". My suggestion replaces weapon magic, so you can't do weapon magic if you use it. Also, what if you wanted to steal it instead of break it but still wanted to deal damage?
If it really is a problem, then it can be randomized.
Again, it's just an augment to Basic Attack. It's a lot like what I suggested for Archers.
And finally, annoying to pick the same ability over and over again? I find that it's only annoying if it's not working.
Quote from: "Dokurider"Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Why would you ever use the basic attack, then?
So? Knights should be destructive. I don't see a problem with being able to augment your attack.
I agree with Kaijyuu.
If you're gonna give the job a boosted attack to replace Attack Command, make sure they have to sacrifice something for it. (Damage, MP, Accuracy, Charge Time, something.)
Otherwise it's just Original FFT Lightning Stablololol all the time for that job.
See: Sonic Boom from FFTA. Completely nullifies the purpose of Attack with 0 mp 0 ct 0 penalties, PLUS AOE!
I still don't agree with your line of reasoning, but, I thought it over the weekend, and I do agree that it does need a cost, because it's OP. MP cost would be fine.
Actually, scratch that. Damage reduction would be better. 1/2 Weapon formula sound good?
I'm also betting that you guys would want something similar for the Archer skillset I suggested initially as well? 7/8 Weapon Formula as well.
I think your archer skillset is fine, so long as it has some sort of moderate charge time. Like, each of the status inflicting ones would have a charge time of 3, potshot (aimed shot?) of 2 (since it already has a damage reduction).
Nah, damage reduction is the way to go.
That works too.
Personally, I'd try to keep some of the original charges intact. They're unique in their own way; you'd just have to get rid of the useless ones and add these new shots onto the list for variety and flexibility.
Then again, that might require more ASM than it's worth.