Final Fantasy Hacktics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlaKQ_jn ... annel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlaKQ_jn_1E&feature=channel_page)

This is effin' horrible man. I didn't even realize.

Ok. Time to go post this on every site you've ever visted ever. Ready...? BREAK!

Go go go get out the word.

Eh... YouTube falls and we go to Veoh, what's the problem?

I just think YouTube has not gone to far to be saved yet.

Also I have yet to set up a Veoh account and am lazy.

I've seen this video being spread around.  I dont' know what to think about it.  Is it possible that it's just a lot of fear mongering?

Checked out some of his other vids.  Not exactly encouraging.  This guy's definitely an idiot.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuoL0UY ... annel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuoL0UYG-Y&feature=channel_page)

the video is old.  Youtube is still here, basically in a fashion described by the video, and still going strong.  And no one said anything until now?  Seriously?  


THE END IS SOON.  REALLY GUYS, I MEAN IT THIS TIME.

Veoh hates my computer.

Quote from: "philsov"the video is old.  Youtube is still here, basically in a fashion described by the video, and still going strong.  And no one said anything until now?  Seriously?  [/b]

you are a silly man

the video was uploaded 2 days ago

and if by old you mean over-the-top or exaggerated in it's claims, then I urge you to have a little talk with


http://www.youtube.com/movies (http://www.youtube.com/movies)

http://www.youtube.com/shows (http://www.youtube.com/shows)


just wait till they're done with the real changes

Quote from: "philsov"THE END IS SOON.  REALLY GUYS, I MEAN IT THIS TIME.

the video is not announcing the end of youtube, did you even watch the whole thing? It's not a "THE END IS NEAR!" video at all.

Quotethe video was uploaded 2 days ago

I can't re-watch it atm, but I could've sworn it talked about some events from months ago as well, like they were happening "soon".  The whole time reference took me for a loop.

QuoteIt's not a "THE END IS NEAR!" video at all.

Unless you're one of the smaller channels trying to get a name for itself, sure.  But that's what the video blathers about for about half its time.  

Quotejust wait till they're done with the real changes

And I'll still probably upload my videos there and use the search function to watch videos I want to.  This really only hits the bored wanderer who gets sidetracked by shiny gum wrapper.

QuoteI can't re-watch it atm, but I could've sworn it talked about some events from months ago as well, like they were happening "soon".

you were wrong, next time pay attention to what you're watching before calling it old and exaggerated? all of the information on the video is truth, and recent

QuoteUnless you're one of the smaller channels trying to get a name for itself, sure. But that's what the video blathers about for about half its time.

re-watch the video, there's more to this than just it killing the chances of smaller partners

youtube has a huge censorship problem

QuoteAnd I'll still probably upload my videos there and use the search function to watch videos I want to. This really only hits the bored wanderer who gets sidetracked by shiny gum wrapper.

you can do as you wish on youtube after the make the changes

the video is still true regardless (and very, very recent)

hell, it's the #1 Rated, #1 Responded, #1 Commented, #1 Discussed, and #1 Favorited video on ALL OF YOUTUBE for today

http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=md (http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=md)
http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=ms (http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=ms)
http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=mf (http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=mf)
http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=tr (http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=tr)

And?

This video is nothing but alarmist. So I'll get less views on my channel? I really don't care. Youtube is bullshit, but for other different reasons. There are several ways to raise your channel view/subscriptions if you're really concerned about that.

Quote from: "Dokurider"So I'll get less views on my channel? I really don't care.

do you even make that many vids? perhaps you don't care because you have no money to make from YT like smaller partners do

QuoteYoutube is bullshit, but for other different reasons.

which?

if it's so bad, why are you on it?

QuoteThere are several ways to raise your channel view/subscriptions if you're really concerned about that.

yup

and the entire point of the video is that being an independent original content creator will NOT be one of the viable ways to do it after this change


the purpose of the video flew right by your ignorant little head it seems doku

Youtube is gonna get owned?

I'll believe it when I see it :o

If independent content creators don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

Quote from: "Dokurider"If independent content creators don't like it, they can go somewhere else.

Why should they have to?

It's called "you"tube not "us"tube.

Youtube is privately owned. They can do anything they want. At best, you can suggest something and hope they care. Otherwise, live with it or go somewhere else.

Privately owned yes, but they are a consumer site.

They need to invest in making their users happy9and by users I mean those who watch videos AND those who make them) because at the end of the day that is how they make revenue.

If they wanted to make a hulutube why not merge with hulu or make another site for all the movies and shows.

Youtube should stay youtube, because at the end of the day the sites major history is user generated content not professionally produced content.


All they are doing is pissing off the people who have made them such a success. Kinda like say Voldemort telling melonhead that he wasn't necessary for the development of 1.3

Quoteyup

and the entire point of the video is that being an independent original content creator will NOT be one of the viable ways to do it after this change


the purpose of the video flew right by your ignorant little head it seems doku

Do you really know if IOC creators will be able to get less views after it's new changes? Maybe it's stay the same? Maybe you'll get more? Where's the evidence? The video never cites it's sources.

Quotewhich?

if it's so bad, why are you on it?  

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/22/th ... al-videos/ (http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/22/the-secret-strategies-behind-many-viral-videos/)

Read that article. And why I have an account on Youtube? Convenience. It's the first video hosting website that popped into my head. I haven't bothered checking out any other hosts because the service I get from Youtube is satisfactory. If I find a host that's satisfies me more or Youtube's service stops being satisfactory, I'll change services. Simple as that.

Quotedo you even make that many vids? perhaps you don't care because you have no money to make from YT like smaller partners do

To date, I have 33 videos uploaded, and more coming up in the following weeks. I consider that as making many videos.

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Privately owned yes, but they are a consumer site.

They need to invest in making their users happy9and by users I mean those who watch videos AND those who make them) because at the end of the day that is how they make revenue.

If they wanted to make a hulutube why not merge with hulu or make another site for all the movies and shows.

Youtube should stay youtube, because at the end of the day the sites major history is user generated content not professionally produced content.


All they are doing is pissing off the people who have made them such a success. Kinda like say Voldemort telling melonhead that he wasn't necessary for the development of 1.3

And you and realworldnews or whatever knows more about making money than Youtube? You think something like trying to make their page less cluttered and more visually appealling is going to make them less money? Please.

QuoteAnd why I have an account on Youtube? Convenience. It's the first video hosting website that popped into my head. I haven't bothered checking out any other hosts because the service I get from Youtube is satisfactory. If I find a host that's satisfies me more or Youtube's service stops being satisfactory, I'll change services. Simple as that.

you have an account on youtube because youtube is the only video site that has so many eyeballs

no other video site comes close

you think your measly 50 views on a 1.3 video is a lot?

it'd be zero views on any other video service if you were not on youtube

QuoteTo date, I have 33 videos uploaded, and more coming up in the following weeks. I consider that as making many videos.

you're wrong

# of vids doesn't say anything (especially not 33 which is next to nothing)

some people with less than 100 videos have 100,000+ subs and are partners, making money off those views

which is why I said before it is understandable why you don't see the issue here, you got nothing to lose here, because you don't really have much presence in youtube, relatively, and you have no real views / money to lose in the first place

REMEMBER - some independent content creators DO make money off youtube and the changes DO affect them greatly , thats what this video is getting at

QuoteDo you really know if IOC creators will be able to get less views after it's new changes? Maybe it's stay the same? Maybe you'll get more? Where's the evidence? The video never cites it's sources.

the entire point of the video is to prevent it from happening in the first place

that's what the video tries to explain

you can't have sources when you are trying to pre-empt your sources from existing in the first place

were you even awake when you watch it?


Darthpaul is correct

youtube / google can do whatever they want, but if they piss off the people who MAKE youtube what it is (and what gives it as many eyeballs as it has right now), you can be sure there's MANY other people clamoring for Youtube's spot on #1, sites which won't hesitate to capitalize on the mistake, ESPECIALLY if youtube turns corporate and drives away alot of it's userbase

QuoteAnd you and realworldnews or whatever knows more about making money than Youtube?

Youtube doesn't make a comparatively great deal of money.. alot of people seem to assume this, and I'm not sure why

the great majority of it's earnings go right back into maintenance of the service

what will keep youtube alive is the companies who have an interest in keeping it alive, because it is their #1 source of advertisement and market penetration

Youtube isn't making changes to make more money, it's making changes to survive

Youtube needs to either please the small guys that make it what it is, or please the big companies who would otherwise destroy it

the video is telling youtube to come to our side, and not the corporate side , and find another way to survive than to turn into HuluTube

the video is trying to stop youtube from going to the corporate side to survive

Voldemort thank you I can not say it any better without restating what you already have said.

And?

One of my videos has 35,000 views, I'm so cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhIbfcRiDpU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhIbfcRiDpU)

Quoteyou have an account on youtube because youtube is the only video site that has so many eyeballs

no other video site comes close

you think your measly 50 views on a 1.3 video is a lot?

it'd be zero views on any other video service if you were not on youtube

Don't put words in my mouth. I said I have an account on Youtube out of sheer convience and that's that. I was only answering your question about whether I even have videos on my channel or not. I don't recall you asking me about my view count. No I don't think 50 views is alot. I never said that either.

I'd be perfectly fine if my view count stayed at zero. That's not the reason why I upload videos. I upload videos as a favor to you guys at 1.3. I didn't expect to get alot of views. Even if you guys didn't care, I'd still be fine with that. I make videos as a benefit to myself. It's very helpful to me to review how I did in a battle, so that I can refine my strategies and overall be a better player.

Quoteyou're wrong

# of vids doesn't say anything (especially not 33 which is next to nothing)

some people with less than 100 videos have 100,000+ subs and are partners, making money off those views

which is why I said before it is understandable why you don't see the issue here, you got nothing to lose here, because you don't really have much presence in youtube, relatively, and you have no real views / money to lose in the first place

REMEMBER - some independent content creators DO make money off youtube and the changes DO affect them greatly , thats what this video is getting at

I only said I have a lot of videos because most channels have no videos, period. But if that's not the case, then that's fine. Remember, I was only answering your question.

Who I am is beside the point. Who I am is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand. Quit trying to suggest I'm missing something or my arguments are less relevant because I don't make a livelyhood off of Youtube.

Once more, this video doesn't cite any evidence. There is no reason to  believe that anything it says is true. None at all.

Quotethe entire point of the video is to prevent it from happening in the first place

that's what the video tries to explain

you can't have sources when you are trying to pre-empt your sources from existing in the first place

were you even awake when you watch it?

"Pre-empting your sources" is synonymous with talking out of your ass.

Once again, it does not cite it's facts. No one has any reason to believe anything that video says. If it's too early to come up with any hard facts, then perhaps that's a sign that it's too fucking early to say anything definite about the effect that these changes will have on IOC creators at all! You simply have no evidence. That's that.

Quoteph33rb0t is correct

youtube / google can do whatever they want, but if they piss off the people who MAKE youtube what it is (and what gives it as many eyeballs as it has right now), you can be sure there's MANY other people clamoring for Youtube's spot on #1, sites which won't hesitate to capitalize on the mistake, ESPECIALLY if youtube turns corporate and drives away alot of it's userbase

What makes you think Youtube is making a mistake in the first place?

QuoteYoutube doesn't make a comparatively great deal of money.. alot of people seem to assume this, and I'm not sure why

the great majority of it's earnings go right back into maintenance of the service

what will keep youtube alive is the companies who have an interest in keeping it alive, because it is their #1 source of advertisement and market penetration

Youtube isn't making changes to make more money, it's making changes to survive

Youtube needs to either please the small guys that make it what it is, or please the big companies who would otherwise destroy it

the video is telling youtube to come to our side, and not the corporate side , and find another way to survive than to turn into HuluTube

the video is trying to stop youtube from going to the corporate side to survive

Quote-- Categories will now be found under the "Videos" tab.

-- Dropdown menus make for a smoother transition when clicking through popular pages, ie. "Most Viewed," "Top Favorites," "Recently Featured," etc.

-- Tabs and video browsing pages have a new overall look and feel.

These are the changes that Youtube is making. Here's a pretty picture.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/Dokurider/youtube_ss_new.png)

Do you honestly think that a Javascript making things more steamline is going to to oppress IOC creators? You, all of you, are making a mountain out of a goddamn molehill. You are all full of shit if that's what you think. These changes will have no affect on your livelyhoods and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise. If you don't like this changes, feel free to leave. I'm sure someone else will be willing to take your place.

Quote from: "Dokurider"

Quoteyou have an account on youtube because youtube is the only video site that has so many eyeballs

no other video site comes close

you think your measly 50 views on a 1.3 video is a lot?

it'd be zero views on any other video service if you were not on youtube

Don't put words in my mouth. I said I have an account on Youtube out of sheer convience and that's that. I was only answering your question about whether I even have videos on my channel or not. I don't recall you asking me about my view count. No I don't think 50 views is alot. I never said that either.

I'd be perfectly fine if my view count stayed at zero. That's not the reason why I upload videos. I upload videos as a favor to you guys at 1.3. I didn't expect to get alot of views. Even if you guys didn't care, I'd still be fine with that. I make videos as a benefit to myself. It's very helpful to me to review how I did in a battle, so that I can refine my strategies and overall be a better player.

I was making an example of why youtube is by far the biggest video service and why it is desirable to have an account there instead of other services

I very much doubt people make videos and upload them so they can get seen by zero views

if you only care about reviewing your gameplay, why do you upload it? just watch it on your PC

QuoteI only said I have a lot of videos because most channels have no videos, period. But if that's not the case, then that's fine. Remember, I was only answering your question.

Who I am is beside the point. Who I am is completely irrelevant to the argument at hand. Quit trying to suggest I'm missing something or my arguments are less relevant because I don't make a livelyhood off of Youtube.

Once more, this video doesn't cite any evidence. There is no reason to  believe that anything it says is true. None at all.

I wasn't talking about who you are

I was saying that because you are not a youtube partner it is easy to understand why you would not care about this / think it's all fake

and it is a fact that you're not a youtube partner, btw

I wasn't talking about who you are (x2), I was talking about the relationship your account has with youtube, and it's not a partership

you have no money and even less audience at risk here, compared to the people who actually are YT Partners

Quote"Pre-empting your sources" is synonymous with talking out of your ass.

Once again, it does not cite it's facts. No one has any reason to believe anything that video says. If it's too early to come up with any hard facts, then perhaps that's a sign that it's too fucking early to say anything definite about the effect that these changes will have on IOC creators at all! You simply have no evidence. That's that.

ah I see

so making observations based on the changes we know youtube is going to make in order to avoid potential future consequences is useless?

the facts are already there for all to see... like I said before

www.youtube.com/movies (http://www.youtube.com/movies)
www.youtube.com/shows (http://www.youtube.com/shows)
www.youtube.com/music (http://www.youtube.com/music)

the video is making observations based on the behavior it is seeing from youtube

you are asking for too much from a youtube video, and/or analyzing the idea too harshly

are you also against the idea of global warming because no one has provided enough facts for you?

are you also against action on the US economy because no one has given you FACTS that it's going to take a turn for the worst?

your attitude of "do nothing now in case the worrying people are wrong" is the same attitude that causes "oh fuck the worrying people were right I wish we would have done something back then"

there is no harm in campaigning for youtube to go back to how it was in 2007, that's what the video is about--

repeat: were you even awake when you saw it? this isn't a science experiment, it's just a campaign to get youtube to stop going corporate (which FYI WILL affect YT Partners if it happens, just because of the very nature of how the system is changing)
 

QuoteThese are the changes that Youtube is making. Here's a pretty picture.

Do you honestly think that a Javascript making things more steamline is going to to oppress IOC creators? You, all of you, are making a mountain out of a St. Ajora molehill. You are all full of shit if that's what you think. These changes will have no affect on your livelyhoods and you have no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Those are not the only changes youtube is going to make

the changes the video talks about have not taken place yet

your picture says nothing

QuoteIf you don't like this changes, feel free to leave. I'm sure someone else will be willing to take your place.

I have no stake in this, I am not a Youtube partner, I have nothing at risk here, and I'm not going to leave regardless

however unlike you, I can understand the issue this represents for those who do

How old is that pic anyway?

It has an ad for the republican debates for crying out load! Wait I looked past the elephant and saw NOV 28.

Sorry to say this Doku, but that pic is phail.

QuoteI was making an example of why youtube is by far the biggest video service and why it is desirable to have an account there instead of other services

I very much doubt people make videos and upload them so they can get seen by zero views

Don't try to backpedal. You explicitly said I was uploading videos for the views when I said I wasn't. Doubt me if you want, it's very true.

Quoteif you only care about reviewing your gameplay, why do you upload it? just watch it on your PC

QuoteI'd be perfectly fine if my view count stayed at zero. That's not the reason why I upload videos. I upload videos as a favor to you guys at 1.3. I didn't expect to get alot of views. Even if you guys didn't care, I'd still be fine with that. I make videos as a benefit to myself. It's very helpful to me to review how I did in a battle, so that I can refine my strategies and overall be a better player.

I also upload them to prove that I'm beating the 1.3 battles legitimately.

QuoteI wasn't talking about who you are

I was saying that because you are not a youtube partner it is easy to understand why you would not care about this / think it's all fake

and it is a fact that you're not a youtube partner, btw

I wasn't talking about who you are (x2), I was talking about the relationship your account has with youtube, and it's not a partership

you have no money and even less audience at risk here, compared to the people who actually are YT Partners

So, what's your point? What does it matter that "it is easy to understand why would not care"? What does my relationship with Youtube have to do with anything? Your whole "I don't make a livelyhood off of Youtube." is completely irrelevant .

Quoteah I see

so making observations based on the changes we know youtube is going to make in order to avoid potential future consequences is useless?

Never said that. How does one make observations of something that doesn't exist yet anyways?

Quotethe facts are already there for all to see... like I said before

www.youtube.com/movies (http://www.youtube.com/movies)
www.youtube.com/shows (http://www.youtube.com/shows)
www.youtube.com/music (http://www.youtube.com/music)

Where? It's certainly not in the video.

Quotethe video is making observations based on the behavior it is seeing from youtube

you are asking for too much from a youtube video, and/or analyzing the idea too harshly

I'm not asking too much. How hard is it to cite your damn sources? I was doing it when I was 13. Put something at the end of the video or in the description.

But perhaps you're right. Maybe we shouldn't take Youtube videos so seriously. I mean, after all, it's way too much work to be credible. So I guess we shouldn't listen to them at all, including this video.

Quoteare you also against the idea of global warming because no one has provided enough facts for you?

If there isn't enough evidence for an idea, that idea is not credible. No matter what it is. That's how it works.

Quoteare you also against action on the US economy because no one has given you FACTS that it's going to take a turn for the worst?

How am I against me making money?

Quoteyour attitude of "do nothing now in case the worrying people are wrong" is the same attitude that causes "oh fuck the worrying people were right I wish we would have done something back then"

Your attitude of "Let's do something in case some single stupid asshole is right" is the same attitude that causes "Oh fuck, I fucked things up. I wish we didn't do that back then".

Quotethere is no harm in campaigning for youtube to go back to how it was in 2007, that's what the video is about--

But I get pissed off when pretentious assholes try to shove propaganda down my throat. No harm in counter-protesting either.  

Quoterepeat: were you even awake when you saw it?

Was your brain turned off when you saw this video?

Quotethis isn't a science experiment, it's just a campaign to get youtube to stop going corporate (which FYI WILL affect YT Partners if it happens, just because of the very nature of how the system is changing)

How do you know that these changes will negatively affect YT Partners? HOW do you know this?

QuoteThose are not the only changes youtube is going to make

Then please, direct me to a place where Youtube has all of it's changes listed. I know about the new movies and TV shows, but what else is gonna  kill you?

QuoteI have no stake in this, I am not a Youtube partner, I have nothing at risk here, and I'm not going to leave regardless

I guess that means you've accepted Youtube's changes then.

Quotehowever unlike you, I can understand the issue this represents for those who do

How do you understand the issue better then I can? Because I understand that this video is full of it and you don't?

QuoteWhere? It's certainly not in the video.

The video itself was made when these pages went live:

www.youtube.com/movies (http://www.youtube.com/movies)
www.youtube.com/shows (http://www.youtube.com/shows)
www.youtube.com/music (http://www.youtube.com/music)

Are those links not proof enough for you that what the video is saying is true? The video says Youtube is turning into HuluTube, and it's saying it will change Youtube's priorities, phasing out small partners and original content creators. I don't see why the video is wrong in this.

When Youtube begins renting / purchasing IP's for those pages, it will turn into HuluTube. The first step was the HD for TV Shows and Movies (which now mostly get produced in HD), and this is the next step.

QuoteThen please, direct me to a place where Youtube has all of it's changes listed. I know about the new movies and TV shows, but what else is gonna kill you?

When big sites make broad all-encompassing changes such as the links I gave you, they don't let people know of it in a change-list fashion. They'll formally announce it when it's ready, and most likely when they already own several IP's to give those pages a bit more attention with shows that can compete with what Hulu is offering. I can't direct you to a place where Youtube has all the changes listed because that's not what they are going to do. They are a little smarter (and more subtle) than that, they know that the backlash will be even worse if they allow people to formally see the changes before they happen. They will try to make the transition as quietly as possible.

Why do you think there is NO formal links to those linked pages anywhere on Youtube? They are testing them out, but they will NOT publicly acknowledge those pages, even though you can see them yourself already. I can understand why you think the video is BS, but the very fact that you can't find a formal change list for what's going to happen means Youtube has successfully led you to believe that it's not a big deal. The more people that react like you, the better it is for them.

They'll never pre-maturely write up a 1.3 style change-list like what you are demanding. That's part of the plan.

QuoteYour attitude of "Let's do something in case some single stupid asshole is right" is the same attitude that causes "Oh fuck, I fucked things up. I wish we didn't do that back then".

It's not just a single "asshole" campaigning for this. The PHASING YOU OUT OF YOUTUBE video has been #1 most discussed, #1 rated, #1 responded, #1 favorited, #1 mirrored video on Youtube for three days after it was uploaded. I'm not trying to mount an ad populum here, just saying that your claim that it's just 1 stupid asshole is wrong.

QuoteBut I get pissed off when pretentious assholes try to shove propaganda down my throat. No harm in counter-protesting either.

Not to mention that therealweeklynews (same guy from MrBlacksMovieReviews) has been a LONG-TIME member of youtube. His news are usually un-biased, neutral, and very well done. His videos vs youtube started right around the time that Youtube did nothing to correct the blatant legal issues of censorship and false DMCA claims that are still present on the side today.

To call the creator of that video a "stupid asshole" and "pretentious" just because you disagree is not only ignorant, hasty, but it's also wrong and shows how little you know about the intent of that video and the validity behind the guy who made it. That video would not be 5% as popular and as effective as it has been if it had not been made by a reputable and respected member of Youtube.

QuoteHow does one make observations of something that doesn't exist yet anyways?

How do you know that these changes will negatively affect YT Partners? HOW do you know this?

You can make observations based on experience. Entities (including companies) have predictable behavior that is observable. It's called a hypothesis / prediction. I am sure you draw conclusions based on past experiences and observations every day of your life. Everyone does. The changing world is not as simple as "show me facts that this is going to happen, or else there is NO CHANCE that it's going to happen. You know that's not how things work, and it's definitely not how people react.

If you watch the video, you will see that it mentions Youtube's behavior in the past with regards to issues such as this. Issues where Youtube sided with the corporate to save itself over having to please it's users and get murdered in court for it.

 They did it on the DMCA Reform, they did it for capped video size / lengths, they did it for World Music Group, they did it for Universal, they did it for every single record company who has filed false IP claims that violate the law of Fair Use. In every single one of these cases, Youtube did the same. They screwed over their users and they helped the big companies that can otherwise RAPE YOUTUBE IN COURT. And you're telling me this video has no foundation for it's claims? Yeah that's what I thought.

QuoteYour attitude of "Let's do something in case some single stupid asshole is right" is the same attitude that causes "Oh fuck, I fucked things up. I wish we didn't do that back then".

As stated before it's not just a single asshole. The great majority of the youtube community have mirrored and helped this video grow. Again, not trying to mount an ad populum, because that doesn't help my case. Just saying. Also, taking action now, assuming Youtube DOESN'T side with the corporate side (like they always have in the past!) would not really end up as a case of "Oh fuck, I fucked things up. I wish we didn't do that back then".. It'd end up more along the lines of: "Oh, well, good thing they listened to our outcry and didn't side with the corporate, for once!"

The more you argue the more your lack of Youtube's history shows, as well as a categorical misunderstanding of the intent of the video. Arguing from an lack of credibility will not make your understanding of the situation any greater.

QuoteThis video is nothing but alarmist.

Even under the assumption that EVERYTHING on the video is false and never happens (and it's already happening unfortunately), all the video is doing is promoting Free Speech and Equality on Youtube. Equality along with Fair Free Speech will completely vanish as soon as Youtube favors it's mega corporate partners over the users who made them what they are. Actually, it's too late for that, because with all the false flagging, false DMCA'ing, and false takedowns they let their partners get away with, the Free Speech and Equality on Youtube is already dying.


If you automatically label efforts to promote Free Speech and Equality on a medium as relevant and as ground-breaking as Youtube as just one "pretendious asshole" trying to make much about nothing (alarmist), then I don't know what else you put up with from others when they try to force something on you.

If you disagree with the video, just don't support it.

But don't try to mount attacks on it just because it is trying to get something done for the good of the users and the small guys. I would much rather be wrong about this and end up causing much-a-do about nothing than having taken Youtube's corporate, censoring, law-breaking dick up my ass quietly like you are suggesting needs to be done.

QuoteThe video itself was made when these pages went live:

www.youtube.com/movies (http://www.youtube.com/movies)
www.youtube.com/shows (http://www.youtube.com/shows)
www.youtube.com/music (http://www.youtube.com/music)

Are those links not proof enough for you that what the video is saying is true? The video says Youtube is turning into HuluTube, and it's saying it will change Youtube's priorities, phasing out small partners and original content creators. I don't see why the video is wrong in this.

When Youtube begins renting / purchasing IP's for those pages, it will turn into HuluTube. The first step was the HD for TV Shows and Movies (which now mostly get produced in HD), and this is the next step.
 

So? I never had any doubts these changes were happening. What I have doubts about are if this changes will have a negative impact on IOC creators, which you and the video consistently fail to demonstrate. These links are not proof.

QuoteWhen big sites make broad all-encompassing changes such as the links I gave you, they don't let people know of it in a change-list fashion. They'll formally announce it when it's ready, and most likely when they already own several IP's to give those pages a bit more attention with shows that can compete with what Hulu is offering. I can't direct you to a place where Youtube has all the changes listed because that's not what they are going to do. They are a little smarter (and more subtle) than that, they know that the backlash will be even worse if they allow people to formally see the changes before they happen. They will try to make the transition as quietly as possible.

Why do you think there is NO formal links to those linked pages anywhere on Youtube? They are testing them out, but they will NOT publicly acknowledge those pages, even though you can see them yourself already. I can understand why you think the video is BS, but the very fact that you can't find a formal change list for what's going to happen means Youtube has successfully led you to believe that it's not a big deal. The more people that react like you, the better it is for them.

They'll never pre-maturely write up a 1.3 style change-list like what you are demanding. That's part of the plan.

I love how you're trying to add a sinister spin to this, like they are literally out to get you.

Actually, most major websites do announce changes they make, and Youtube is no exception:

http://www.youtube.com/blog (http://www.youtube.com/blog)

A little out of the way, but nothing a determined search could find.

QuoteIt's not just a single "asshole" campaigning for this. The PHASING YOU OUT OF YOUTUBE video has been #1 most discussed, #1 rated, #1 responded, #1 favorited, #1 mirrored video on Youtube for three days after it was uploaded. I'm not trying to mount an ad populum here, just saying that your claim that it's just 1 stupid asshole is wrong.

Didn't say anything about campaigning. You are all up in arms because ONE guy made un-cited claims about the changes youtube is making is going to have a negative affect on IOC creators.

QuoteNot to mention that therealweeklynews (same guy from MrBlacksMovieReviews) has been a LONG-TIME member of youtube. His news are usually un-biased, neutral, and very well done. His videos vs youtube started right around the time that Youtube did nothing to correct the blatant legal issues of censorship and false DMCA claims that are still present on the side today.

To call the creator of that video a "stupid asshole" and "pretentious" just because you disagree is not only ignorant, hasty, but it's also wrong and shows how little you know about the intent of that video and the validity behind the guy who made it.

I was talking in general, quit taking my words out of context.

QuoteThat video would not be 5% as popular and as effective as it has been if it had not been made by a reputable and respected member of Youtube.

That's assuming good faith on the part of the Youtube userbase.

QuoteYou can make observations based on experience.

I'll bite, how does one 'make observations' based on 'experience'? Is that synonymous with 'Anecdotal Evidence'.

QuoteEntities (including companies) have predictable behavior that is observable. It's called a hypothesis / prediction.

The very definition of a hypothesis is that it's unproven. I'd believe that companies have predictable behavior though.

QuoteI am sure you draw conclusions based on past experiences and observations every day of your life. Everyone does. The changing world is not as simple as "show me facts that this is going to happen, or else there is NO CHANCE that it's going to happen. You know that's not how things work, and it's definitely not how people react.

How is how I operate from day-to-day basis have anything to do with this? I go into different situations with different mindsets. If I was working on a  nuclear reactor, I wouldn't act and think the same way I would if I was on the street or at home.

QuoteIf you watch the video, you will see that it mentions Youtube's behavior in the past with regards to issues such as this. Issues where Youtube sided with the corporate to save itself over having to please it's users and get murdered in court for it.

They did it on the DMCA Reform, they did it for capped video size / lengths, they did it for World Music Group, they did it for Universal, they did it for every single record company who has filed false IP claims that violate the law of Fair Use. In every single one of these cases, Youtube did the same. They screwed over their users and they helped the big companies that can otherwise RAPE YOUTUBE IN COURT. And you're telling me this video has no foundation for it's claims? Yeah that's what I thought.

At best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not. But that's all you got. You still have no evidence that these  changes will actually hurt anyone.

QuoteAs stated before it's not just a single asshole. The great majority of the youtube community have mirrored and helped this video grow. Again, not trying to mount an ad populum, because that doesn't help my case. Just saying. Also, taking action now, assuming Youtube DOESN'T side with the corporate side (like they always have in the past!) would not really end up as a case of "Oh fuck, I fucked things up. I wish we didn't do that back then".. It'd end up more along the lines of: "Oh, well, good thing they listened to our outcry and didn't side with the corporate, for once!"

How do you know it won't?

QuoteThe more you argue the more your lack of Youtube's history shows, as well as a categorical misunderstanding of the intent of the video. Arguing from an lack of credibility will not make your understanding of the situation any greater.

I don't need to know anything about Youtube or the creator of the video, because any and all arguments you can and have mustered all fall in the presence of one simple fact: The claims in this video are completely unfounded. No matter how much you try, you cannot refute this one damning fact. No matter what the intent is, if there is no evidence to support it, then it is unfounded. Simple as that.

QuoteEven under the assumption that EVERYTHING on the video is false and never happens (and it's already happening unfortunately), all the video is doing is promoting Free Speech and Equality on Youtube. Equality along with Fair Free Speech will completely vanish as soon as Youtube favors it's mega corporate partners over the users who made them what they are. Actually, it's too late for that, because with all the false flagging, false DMCA'ing, and false takedowns they let their partners get away with, the Free Speech and Equality on Youtube is already dying.


If you automatically label efforts to promote Free Speech and Equality on a medium as relevant and as ground-breaking as Youtube as just one "pretendious asshole" trying to make much about nothing (alarmist), then I don't know what else you put up with from others when they try to force something on you.

If you disagree with the video, just don't support it.

But don't try to mount attacks on it just because it is trying to get something done for the good of the users and the small guys. I would much rather be wrong about this and end up causing much-a-do about nothing than having taken Youtube's corporate, censoring, law-breaking dick up my ass quietly like you are suggesting needs to be done.

Once again, Youtube is a privately-owned organization. Private organizations has the right to suppress Free Speech on it's own website(s). Gamefaqs does it all the time. But once again, what does this have to do with the fact that this video has no evidence to support it's claims? Fast response BTW.

Youtube may be privatley owned yes but lets say they took the stand they are taking now back when they started.

*chirp*

*chirp*

Who would be the dominant internet video website?

Probably veoh cause they don't pull this shit.

yet.

Then they'll get popular, rake in big bucks from corporations, and the cycle goes on.

Which is why when that happen videos like this are made to throw a wrench into the proverbial cogs of that cycle.

moved to 2nd post

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Which is why when that happen videos like this are made to throw a wrench into the proverbial cogs of that cycle.

Youtube is ultimately a business, meaning they want to make money.  They are quite aware that if they sell out they will lose some user base.  If they lose too many users, it becomes counterproductive.   If they go under for not going corporate, that's even worse.  

Unless that video is advocating leaving the site if it becomes too corporate or encourages people to somehow hand over money to youtube, it's nothing short of masturbation.  Asking youtube to "DO SOMETHING" isn't helping anyone anywhere.

QuoteActually, most major websites do announce changes they make, and Youtube is no exception:

http://www.youtube.com/blog (http://www.youtube.com/blog)

A little out of the way, but nothing a determined search could find.

Hehe did you even read that article? Take a look at your own link:

QuoteToday we're excited to announce a new destination for television shows and an improved destination for movies on YouTube, where partners like Crackle, CBS, MGM, Lionsgate, Starz and many others have made thousands of television episodes and hundreds of movies available for you to watch, comment on, favorite and share. This addition is one of many efforts underway to ensure that we're offering you all the different kinds of video you want to see, from bedroom vlogs and citizen journalism reports to music videos and full-length films and TV shows.

To help you navigate through all this great content, we're introducing two new tabs to the YouTube masthead: the "Shows" tab allows you to browse shows by genre, network, title and popularity, while the "Subscriptions" tab will grant logged-in users one-click access to fresh content from their favorite creators.

Another change you'll notice today is the wider roll-out of in-stream ads, which we've been testing since October, to support our shows and movies content -- not unlike what you might see when viewing this type of content on TV.

While shows and movies are currently limited to users in the U.S., we look forward to expanding to other regions as soon as possible, and we're pleased to inform you that the "Subscriptions" tab will be available worldwide in the next few weeks.

We hope you enjoy watching shows and movies on YouTube. There's still work to be done and we look forward to iterating with you, whether that's rolling out new engagement features, expanding our content offering or improving your viewing experience. And, as with everything we do, we'll track your usage and feedback to preserve your fundamental YouTube experience while we take these steps to enhance it.

IE: Hey we haven't added the Hulu IP's yet, just give us a few. And our links split aren't on the actual site yet, but they will, and then HuluTube is complete and everything on Youtube ATM gets moved over to the "Subcribtions/videostablol" where your views will become.. exactly like therealweeklynews said!

I think the importance of the split between "$$$Corporate-backed Intellectual Property Rental Streaming with Ads thrown in" and "Everything else" flew right by your head with regards to the impact it will have on the Youtube user.

Quote from: "Dokurider"Once again, Youtube is a privately-owned organization. Private organizations has the right to suppress Free Speech on it's own website(s).

Free Speech and a free and fair exchange of ideas is what built Youtube. What we are getting at is that Youtube --> Hulutube is a change which will remove the things that made Youtube popular and loved by so many in the first place. We are warning of what will happen if Youtube goes through with it's observed, predictable, and repeated behavior to side with the corporate in the past.

QuoteGamefaqs does it all the time.

Corporate-backing Hulutube will become worse and worse the more it becomes like GameFAQS. I'm glad you brought that example up.

Listen to what DP is saying.

As for the proof of the video, I think we already established that for me, YT's previous behavior as stated in the video is proof enough for me, but it isn't for you.

QuoteThe claims in this video are completely unfounded. No matter how much you try, you cannot refute this one damning fact. No matter what the intent is, if there is no evidence to support it, then it is unfounded. Simple as that.

Then I guess you will have to wait for them to be proven true beyond all doubt before you agree to them. The thing is by then, it will be too late to do anything about it. Thus the whole point of the video.

You already agreed that entities like companies have predictable behavior, especially when you are able to understand their reasons.

Like you said here:

QuoteI'd believe that companies have predictable behavior though.

Things like Youtube's decision making being split between their own survival as a business (read: has more to do with users than money) and their appeasing of the corporate world at the cost of users are examples of this.

If you can understand that, the claims in this video are far from unfounded.

That is like me telling you the following:

IMAGINARY EXAMPLE: Zodiac has always closed the first topic of the month on the 1.3 forum for the past year. Next month, if he does it again, things are going to change. Everyone is tired of when he does it. You as a small 1.3 forum reader need to consider how it will change things this time. That's what the video is saying.

Are you saying it is unfounded to make a statement (video) that talks about the consequences of Zodiac acting in the same, predictable, observed behavior that he's always had?

You keep saying the claims in the video and my arguments to support them fall because they are unfounded, but the only reason you perceive it that way is because you don't (or seem to refuse to) understand that they have, in reality, a very good backing based on Youtube's past behavior.


Like I said before, not everything revolves around "Show me X Numerical Factual Proof, or it's unfounded and I just can't do anything about it, sorry".

If you seriously think this is how the behavior of Youtube, it's users, and other entities (everyone else) is formed, then you are sorely mistaken.

By your logic, we should never do anything about anything, because we have no factual evidence to prove that a predictable, observable pattern is going to fuck us in the ass yet again.

Why prepare for Hurricanes? Weather patterns are impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. Why prepare for them Doku?

We don't have 100% conclusive evidence that the hurricane will come this way, do we?

Let's just go to the beach!

You have observed that every few months of the year, some small island in the caribbean gets wrecked to fuck in an extremely violent, high-category freak of nature storm.

Why WOULD YOU prepare for it? Let's just do nothing about it and sit on our asses.

The TV Reporters telling everyone to get the fuck off the island or die are just being alarmists. They are making unfounded claims based on past behavior!!!

Fuck that observable, predictable, and repeated past behavior! I can't be bothered to make decisions based on observing it!!


Why call child abuse? The father beats his kid every friday night he comes home drunk. Everyone has seen him do it repeatedly.

BUT WAIT! We have no 100% conclusive evidence that he will do it NEXT Friday, or ever again!

Let's do nothing about it. They are just being alarmists.

Like you said:

QuoteThere is no evidence to support it, then it is unfounded.

QuoteWhat we are getting at is that Youtube --> Hulutube is a change which will remove the things that made Youtube popular and loved by so many in the first place.

Except you've provided no evidence that IOC creators will even be negatively affected in the first place.

QuoteCorporate-backing Hulutube will become worse and worse the more it becomes like GameFAQS. I'm glad you brought that example up.

Listen to what ph33rb0t is saying.

As for the proof of the video, I think we already established that for me, YT's previous behavior as stated in the video is proof enough for me, but it isn't for you.

QuoteAt best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not. But that's all you got. You still have no evidence that these changes will actually hurt anyone.

Intent =/= Actual Harm

QuoteThen I guess you will have to wait for them to be proven true beyond all doubt before you agree to them. The thing is by then, it will be too late to do anything about it. Thus the whole point of the video.

Do you really know if will be too late to do anything about it, before actual evidence comes out? Who is working on providing actual evidence? Exactly when will be out? What if the evidence comes out contrary to your claims? What if it comes out before its 'too late', irregardless of whether it supports your claims or not? You'll look like a real dumbass then.

QuoteDo you really know if will be too late to do anything about it, before actual evidence comes out? Who is working on providing actual evidence? Exactly when will be out? What if the evidence comes out contrary to your claims? What if it comes out before its 'too late', irregardless of whether it supports your claims or not? You'll look like a real dumbass then.

The point of the video is to try and take action before it becomes too late.

I think the purpose of the video isn't very worried about "looking like a dumbass" if it's wrong, Doku.

If the video turns out to be wrong, the video wins. That it's purpose. To force Youtube to listen and NOT go ahead with their plans.

The video makes it's claims based on Youtube's past behavior. If Youtube doesn't go through with the repeated behavior, then the purpose of the video was fulfilled.


(And since you did not respond to my examples stating that sometimes it is actually a pretty good idea to act based on past behavior, and that not every call to action requires 100% factual evidence to be valid, I'm going to assume you agree).

QuoteExcept you've provided no evidence that IOC creators will even be negatively affected in the first place.

Did you read my reply to you where I mentioned:

QuoteThey did it on the DMCA Reform, they did it for capped video size / lengths, they did it for World Music Group, they did it for Universal, they did it for every single record company who has filed false IP claims that violate the law of Fair Use. In every single one of these cases, Youtube did the same. They screwed over their users and they helped the big companies that can otherwise RAPE YOUTUBE IN COURT. And you're telling me this video has no foundation for it's claims? Yeah that's what I thought.

???

Or did you just skip over it because you couldn't refute it?

Every single instance mentioned there negatively impacted IOC's.

Every single one.

They were all the result of Youtube ass-kissing to it's corporate masters, and ignoring the users.

They were all the result of observable, predictable, repeated behavior on Youtube's part to side with the corporate.

They were all instances which negatively impacted IOC's. Are you aware of what it means for Youtube to be letting corporate partners (but not users) get away with: False DMCA takedowns, violations of the Fair Use law for entertainment, education, observation, and analysis and the like? It's not only censorship, it's illegal, and guess what; it negatively impacts IOC's in ways even worse than simple corporate programs.

Are you gonna ignore this too and say it's not conclusive enough evidence for you?

And?

Doku this reminds me of an old saying they taught us in Primary School "better safe than sorry".

QuoteIE: Hey we haven't added the Hulu IP's yet, just give us a few. And our links split aren't on the actual site yet, but they will, and then HuluTube is complete and everything on Youtube ATM gets moved over to the "Subcribtions/videostablol" where your views will become.. exactly like therealweeklynews said!

I think the importance of the split between "$$$Corporate-backed Intellectual Property Rental Streaming with Ads thrown in" and "Everything else" flew right by your head with regards to the impact it will have on the Youtube user.

What do you mean by "IE"? Imaginary Example? Are trying to sum up what the actual article says? Because if you are, then goddamn, you fail at reading. The article doesn't even so much as MENTION Hulutube. Were did you, or therealweeklynews, even find out that Youtube is becoming Hulutube, anyways? Besides, you are missing my original point anyways. My original point was that Youtube does announce it's changes. It's not some scattered in the wind bullshit like you were saying.

QuoteYou already agreed that entities like companies have predictable behavior, especially when you are able to understand their reasons.

lrn2read. I was not stating that as an fact. I was stating that as a opinion. Just because I would believe something, that does not make it true. At no point did I tout that as a fact.

QuoteThings like Youtube's decision making being split between their own survival as a business (read: has more to do with users than money) and their appeasing of the corporate world at the cost of users are examples of this.

If you can understand that, the claims in this video are far from unfounded.

How does who Youtube consider in it's decision making suddenly validate any claims made in this video? Remember, Intent =/= Actual evidence.

QuoteThat is like me telling you the following:

IMAGINARY EXAMPLE: Zodiac has always closed the first topic of the month on the 1.3 forum for the past year. Next month, if he does it again, things are going to change. Everyone is tired of when he does it. You as a small 1.3 forum reader need to consider how it will change things this time. That's what the video is saying.

Are you saying it is unfounded to make a statement (video) that talks about the consequences of Zodiac acting in the same, predictable, observed behavior that he's always had?

Your example falls apart because you've have yet to establish that the changes Youtube is making are bad in the first place! If Zodiac closes the first topic of the month, that would be...slightly annoying. I mean, I'd have to remake my topic again.

QuoteYou keep saying the claims in the video and my arguments to support them fall because they are unfounded, but the only reason you perceive it that way is because you don't (or seem to refuse to) understand that they have, in reality, a very good backing based on Youtube's past behavior.

No. The reality is that the video's main claim is unfounded. You are the one that is failing to (or refusing to) understand this. Once again, quit trying to substitute intent for actual proof. Just stop it. No amount of perversion of logic and reason can make it real.

QuoteLike I said before, not everything revolves around "Show me X Numerical Factual Proof, or it's unfounded and I just can't do anything about it, sorry".

If you seriously think this is how the behavior of Youtube, it's users, and other entities (everyone else) is formed, then you are sorely mistaken.

But this video does need Numerical Factual Proof. When you make a report, YOU HAVE TO CITE YOUR EVIDENCE, OTHERWISE PEOPLE (or at least people with a brain) WILL ASSUME YOU ARE JUST PISSING IN THE WIND! Don't you remember having to make reports in school about something and you had to cite your evidence? How is a video different from that?

He mentions at some point in the video that "the amount of views get will drop by 25%." How does he know this? Does he have the data on hand or knows where it is? Why doesn't he show us then? Or maybe he was just pulling numbers for his asshole.

QuoteBy your logic, we should never do anything about anything, because we have no factual evidence to prove that a predictable, observable pattern is going to fuck us in the ass yet again.

Nice strawman you got there. Think he'll scare away the crows?

QuoteWhy prepare for Hurricanes? Weather patterns are impossible to predict with 100% accuracy. Why prepare for them Doku?

We don't have 100% conclusive evidence that the hurricane will come this way, do we?

Let's just go to the beach!

You have observed that every few months of the year, some small island in the caribbean gets wrecked to fuck in an extremely violent, high-category freak of nature storm.

Why WOULD YOU prepare for it? Let's just do nothing about it and sit on our asses.

The TV Reporters telling everyone to get the fuck off the island or die are just being alarmists. They are making unfounded claims based on past behavior!!!

Fuck that observable, predictable, and repeated past behavior! I can't be bothered to make decisions based on observing it!!


Why call child abuse? The father beats his kid every friday night he comes home drunk. Everyone has seen him do it repeatedly.

BUT WAIT! We have no 100% conclusive evidence that he will do it NEXT Friday, or ever again!

Let's do nothing about it. They are just being alarmists.

Hurricanes, by their very nature, are unpredictable. We can predict when they'll start forming, but were will they go, we have a general idea, but it's not reliable. They can suddenly change course on a dime. That's why we watch it's every move, with satellites, doppler radar and other meteorological shit like that.

You also have a great understanding of familial law. Child abusers don't get thrown in jail because they beat their children on a regular basis, they get thrown in jail because, get this, they beat their children, period. There is proof that they beat their children. Witnesses saw it. Marks on the child were consistent with whatever they where beaten with. Child's testimony. Mountains of evidence to throw this guy in jail. Case adjorned.

Quit trying to say that I'm somehow against empirical evidence. I never said that, nor did I ever imply that.

Despite all the straw and shit you've flung at me, you've still have yet to prove the video's main claim that IOC will be negatively affected by this new change. You cannot, repeat, cannot substitute intent for actual evidence. You do not know if any harm will come of these changes. Nor is your claim that your video doesn't need factual evidence, despite how it props itself up as factual. Your argument are not true no matter how many times you dress them up in different clothing or reword it or add convoluted examples.

QuoteThere is no evidence to support it, then it is unfounded.

Like I said, yet you just don't get it.

QuoteThe point of the video is to try and take action before it becomes too late.

I think the purpose of the video isn't very worried about "looking like a dumbass" if it's wrong, Doku.

If the video turns out to be wrong, the video wins. That it's purpose. To force Youtube to listen and NOT go ahead with their plans.

The video makes it's claims based on Youtube's past behavior. If Youtube doesn't go through with the repeated behavior, then the purpose of the video was fulfilled.

Why should Youtube listen to what the video says? None of it's claims are even founded. Once again, intent =/= actual evidence. You have no proof that any changes Youtube has made to it's website have negatively effected IOC creators, nor do you have any proof that even if they did make changes that negatively affected IOC creators (no) that they made enough of them to make it a pattern.

QuoteAnd since you did not respond to my examples stating that sometimes it is actually a pretty good idea to act based on past behavior, and that not every call to action requires 100% factual evidence to be valid, I'm going to assume you agree).

Actually, I copied your post before you added that whole tirade. If I was really frivolous, I could accuse you of trying to trick me and trying to backpedal and trying to play dirty tricks to gain a upper hand. However, I won't, because I'm not like that.

Next time you wanna make amendments to your posts in an argument, just post another post like I do.

QuoteDid you read my reply to you where I mentioned:
Quote:
They did it on the DMCA Reform, they did it for capped video size / lengths, they did it for World Music Group, they did it for Universal, they did it for every single record company who has filed false IP claims that violate the law of Fair Use. In every single one of these cases, Youtube did the same. They screwed over their users and they helped the big companies that can otherwise RAPE YOUTUBE IN COURT. And you're telling me this video has no foundation for it's claims? Yeah that's what I thought.

???

Or did you just skip over it because you couldn't refute it?

Every single instance mentioned there negatively impacted IOC's.

Every single one.

They were all the result of Youtube ass-kissing to it's corporate masters, and ignoring the users.

They were all the result of observable, predictable, repeated behavior on Youtube's part to side with the corporate.

They were all instances which negatively impacted IOC's. Are you aware of what it means for Youtube to be letting corporate partners (but not users) get away with: False DMCA takedowns, violations of the Fair Use law for entertainment, education, observation, and analysis and the like? It's not only censorship, it's illegal, and guess what; it negatively impacts IOC's in ways even worse than simple corporate programs.

Are you gonna ignore this too and say it's not conclusive enough evidence for you?

Um, hello? I did answer your reply.

QuoteAt best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not. But that's all you got. You still have no evidence that these changes will actually hurt anyone.

I guess you want an more in-depth reply.

All those violations Youtube has made, false DMCA claims, violations of Fair Use, etc. were illegal.

Changing the look of your website and getting permission of companies to host their movies and TV shows and music is perfectly legal.

They are not the same thing.

Youtube may be biased toward who they moderate. They may side with corporations in lawsuits. But that does not mean that their changes are bad for IOC creators. Or at least this change is. Just because someone's a thief and a murderer, it does not mean he is also a rapist.

When someone is accused of murder, the most important thing you need to convict him include a body, the scene of the crime, and a weapon. If a weapon isn't found, you still might be able to get a conviction. If you don't have a crime scene, you still might be able to get a conviction. If you don't have a body, you won't get a conviction. If you don't have two of the three pieces of evidence, or none at all, you definitely won't get a conviction and the accused gets to walk away. You don't have a body (IOC creators being negatively affected) or a weapon (failed to connect the changes Youtube makes as negative. But you sure do know a lot about who they side with in lawsuits and moderation).

And a crime scene? Okay, I admit, the metaphor breaks down there. But, you have not been able to establish any real evidence that Youtube changes negatively affect IOC creators. You've established intent (or at least that they don't really care) and have repeated tried and failed over and over again to establish that evidence=intent and that all we need to force Youtube to stay the same.

If you and theweeklyrealnews are so sure that the changes Youtube is making is illegal, then why are you and the creator of the video wasting your time making and mirroring videos when you can be filling a lawsuit? Your videos don't do jack shit except rile people up for a while, then everyone will forget about it. If it's illegal, then you can challenge it. And don't give any 'oh, but their corporate lawyers are too strong' and 'the justice system is corrupt and they'll just bribe the judges and everyone and it'll be like something out of a dystopian fiction'. Like you said, you don't care if you look like an ass or fail, so what do you got to lose? You would've struck a victory for freedom and justice, by just challenging them. As it stands now, you are not doing all you can to fight injustice. You are no better than Youtube.

Besides, your campaign has failed anyways. It has achieved #1, yet you have not stopped Youtube from implementing its changes. You have failed, so STFU.

QuoteYoutube may be biased toward who they moderate. They may side with corporations in lawsuits. But that does not mean that their changes are bad for IOC creators.

lol
I'm guessing you are looking for # of channels taken down by false DMCA's, # of videos censored / deleted due to false DMCA's, and the like as evidence?

Im guessing you are looking for the endless videos and outcrys people have made about false DMCA's and yelling at Youtube to stop the BS and fix it's issues as proof? Oh wait.

I am pretty sure Youtube's IOC community has made it clear that what I mentioned above negatively impacted IOC's, dude.

Search Youtube for "False DMCA".

There's even a community channel called:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DMCAabuse (http://www.youtube.com/user/DMCAabuse)


If you honestly believe that false DMCA takedowns and the like (observed behavior of youtube siding with the corporate) is NOT a negative impact for IOC's, you're dellusional.

QuoteBesides, your campaign has failed anyways. It has achieved #1, yet you have not stopped Youtube from implementing its changes. You have failed, so STFU.

Ah, well, now I'm convinced. That STFU at the end did it!

I'm not sure if the video has had an impact yet. The video's message wasn't that Youtube is going fall. It's not that Youtube's going anywhere.
The message was that 'YOU' (IOC) are slowly being phased out. You keep trying to see this as a black and white, over-night thing, but it never was.

QuoteYour videos don't do jack shit except rile people up for a while, then everyone will forget about it. If it's illegal, then you can challenge it.

Err, the changes coming to Youtube aren't illegal. This was never about taking legal action against Youtube, the illegal part is just something I told you was illegal (false DMCA abuse IS illegal), and it negatively impacts IOC's. The whole "why don't you take legal action here then if you're so worried!!!" doesn't really apply.

Besides, that's now how you challenge changes that a private company makes without caring for the consequences of it's OIC's; like you agreed to here:

QuoteAt best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not.

Youtube not caring for the changes they make negatively affected IOC's is pretty damn good evidence that they will make sweeping changes with zero regard to what happens to IOC's.

QuoteBut, you have not been able to establish any real evidence that Youtube changes negatively affect IOC creators.

lol

You think none of the DMCA / false takedowns / IP violations I brought up are negatively impacting IOC's... if you honestly, believe that, then I have no clue what else you believe.

How is people's channels being taken down for no legal reason, their videos getting censored illegally, and their entire messages deleted because they happened to fall for a false take down / audio censor  NOT a negative impact?



Are you saying that isn't bad for OIC's, because last time I checked, those are negative consequences.

Getting IOC channels deleted for no legal reason, getting IOC messages and videos censored for no legal reasons is a negative impact, Doku.

2x: I am pretty sure Youtube's IOC community has made it clear that what I mentioned above negatively impacted IOC's, dude.

QuoteNice strawman you got there. Think he'll scare away the crows?

Except that's not a straw man. It's literally what you are suggesting. You yelled alarmist, remember?

QuoteI was stating that as a opinion. Just because I would believe something, that does not make it true. At no point did I tout that as a fact.

Erm, alright, excuse me for thinking than when you said you believe something, you support it as a possibility.

You agreed to it. Don't go saying "Oh! I agreed that it was MY OPINION, not that it's FACT."

You can't agree to something then when it's turned against you try to distance yourself from it, lmao.

You agreed that companies have predictable, observable behavior, and by extension you also agree that this behavior can be used as empirical evidence to support claims / action like in the video.

I'm sorry that fucked you over, but calling it non-fact now won't help you. Besides, it's safe to call it a fact. It has been observed many, many times already Doku, that's why you agreed to it remember?

QuoteQuit trying to say that I'm somehow against empirical evidence. I never said that, nor did I ever imply that.

You're not against empirical evidence, which is why you agreed to this part:

QuoteAt best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not.

You said you're not against empirical evidence, right? You also said that you agree that companies have observable behavior.

So you agree that through empirical evidence (youtube's siding with corporate in the past, repeated times, in an almost predictable fashion) we can observe what they have done in the past.

What they have done in the past resulted in False DMCA takedowns, censorship, and all the other crap we already discussed. You know those things exist, you can see people complaining about this negative impact on IOC's all over the youtube community.

In other words, this video's claims are based on youtube's behavior in the past, which has obviously negatively impacted IOC's in the past.

I think it's safe to assume it will negatively impact IOC's again, Doku.

Let me put it in simple terms for you so that there is no possible way for you to mis-understand it:

1) Empirical observation of Youtube =  Siding with corporate. They always do it.

2) Siding with corporate had secondary consequences = False DMCA's. Channel take-downs. Un-founded threats of legal action.

3) False DMCA's. Channel take-downs. Un-founded threats of legal action. = A Negative impact to Youtube IOC's. The IOC's have themselves been calling attention to it as a problem for them. They are themselves SAYING it is a bad, negative thing.

4) It is reasonable to expect that Youtube siding with corporate yet again will produce a negative impact for IOC's.


This is a very real possibility. It's not even debatable.

Thus, the video.

I hope that lets you understand why the video was made, and why it makes such claims.

Quote'm guessing you are looking for # of channels taken down by false DMCA's, # of videos censored / deleted due to false DMCA's, and the like as evidence?

Im guessing you are looking for the endless videos and outcrys people have made about false DMCA's and yelling at Youtube to stop the BS and fix it's issues as proof? Oh wait.

I am pretty sure Youtube's IOC community has made it clear that what I mentioned above negatively impacted IOC's, dude.

Search Youtube for "False DMCA".

There's even a community channel called:
http://www.youtube.com/user/DMCAabuse (http://www.youtube.com/user/DMCAabuse)


If you honestly believe that false DMCA takedowns and the like (observed behavior of youtube siding with the corporate) is NOT a negative impact for IOC's, you're dellusional.

You literally have no idea what I'm talking about, do you? It's like I could have a seizure on the keyboard and post the results and you would still read it any way you want. I am NOT saying that false DMCA takedowns and like don't negatively effect IOC creators, I'm saying it has nothing to do with Youtube updating their content and look and whether it has a negative effect or not! It's an false assumption. Just because one barrel of fruit has gone bad, doesn't mean the whole crop is bad.

QuoteThe video's message wasn't that Youtube is going fall.

Going to fall? Who said this? Nobody said anything about falling.

QuoteYou keep trying to see this as a black and white, over-night thing, but it never was.

Stop putting words in my mouth. In fact, stop putting words into the video's mouth too. But it is pretty clear cut, if you make claims and don't have any evidence to back it up, then your claims are unfounded.

QuoteErr, the changes coming to Youtube aren't illegal. This was never about taking legal action against Youtube, the illegal part is just something I told you was illegal (false DMCA abuse IS illegal), and it negatively impacts IOC's. The whole "why don't you take legal action here then if you're so worried!!!" doesn't really apply.

Then what's the fucking connection you're trying to make here? It's like you're trying to say, "DURR YOUTUBE SIDED WITH DA CORPORATIONS AND UNFAIRLY MODERATE PEOPLE, THEREFORE ANY ACTION YOUTUBE TAKES IS AUTOMATICALLY BAD FOR US DURR." Do you realize how retarded that sounds?

QuoteBesides, that's now how you challenge changes that a private company makes without caring for the consequences of it's OIC's; like you agreed to here:

Quote:
At best, you've established intent, that Youtube doesn't care if it hurts IOC creators or not.

Youtube not caring for the changes they make negatively affected IOC's is pretty damn good evidence that they will make sweeping changes with zero regard to what happens to IOC's.

Then how do you then? Campaigning? If Youtube doesn't care about IOC creators, then it double doesn't give a shit about your opinions either and it'll do whatever it whats and laugh in your face. You can't have it both ways, you can't have Youtube not give enough of a shit to make a change that will effect IOC creators negatively, yet it gives enough of a shit to listen to you and undo it's changes that didn't give a shit about who it was effecting in the first place! That doesn't make any sense.

Are trying to convince people to boycott? Then you have failed also, since no real boycott was made. Even you say you never leave the site.

What are you and the video trying to do? How is this change going to come about? What do you what me to do about it? MIRROR AND COMMENT PLZ. What the fuck is that going to do? You're basically asking us to just bitch and moan, which never gets jack shit done. Are you just hoping it'll just 'happen', that it'll just fall in your lap? Like Youtube will roll over and suddenly go, "Oh, you're right, we shouldn't have made those changes. We'll change it ASAP!" And once it does that, how is Youtube supposed to keep it's website running now that it's kicked all of it's corporate partners to the curb (because I'd imagine they'd pissed off) and is totally for the people now. IOC creators don't pull enough revenue to keep the website going.

Thoughts do not equal action. Just because IOC creators aren't on the mind of Youtube when it makes it's decisions, it does not mean that thoughtlessnesses doesn't magically convert itself to malicious action. And just because your video is #1 in a lot of things and is on the mind of everyone on Youtube, that does not mean that will somehow magically convert into action and change. You may as well be praying.

QuoteYou think none of the DMCA / false takedowns / IP violations I brought up are negatively impacting IOC's...if you honestly, believe that, then I have no clue what else you believe.

How is people's channels being taken down for no legal reason, their videos getting censored illegally, and their entire messages deleted because they happened to fall for a false take down / audio censor Shocked NOT a negative impact?



Are you saying that isn't bad for OIC's, because last time I checked, those are negative consequences.

Getting IOC channels deleted for no legal reason, getting IOC messages and videos censored for no legal reasons is a negative impact, Doku.

2x: I am pretty sure Youtube's IOC community has made it clear that what I mentioned above negatively impacted IOC's, dude.

My St. Ajora, you are dim. I never, ever, said that. I never meant it, I never implied it. I said it does not prove that the changes Youtube is making is negative. Intent =/= Evidence.

QuoteExcept that's not a straw man. It's literally what you are suggesting. You yelled alarmist, remember?

Except that's not what I said. I never said "We should never do anything about anything ever again." Those are your words you tried to put in my mouth. My logic was that your video's main claim is unfounded, therefore I don't have to do anything. There is a world of difference between your video and a hurricane warning issued by the National Hurricane Center.

QuoteErm, alright, excuse me for thinking than when you said you believe something, you support it as a possibility.

You agreed to it. Don't go saying "Oh! I agreed that it was MY OPINION, not that it's FACT."

You can't agree to something then when it's turned against you try to distance yourself from it, lmao.

You agreed that companies have predictable, observable behavior, and by extension you also agree that this behavior can be used as empirical evidence to support claims / action like in the video.

I'm sorry that fucked you over, but calling it non-fact now won't help you. Besides, it's safe to call it a fact. It has been observed many, many times already Doku, that's why you agreed to it remember?

You just can't tell opinions from facts, can you?

I'd believe that I would enjoy tofu. I'd believe that I will live to be 200. I'd believe that your head is up your ass. Just because I support it as a possibility, does not mean that it is a fact or true. Unless of course, OPINIONS = REALITY and I enjoy tofu, will live to be 200 and your head really is up your ass.

QuoteYou said you're not against empirical evidence, right?

Right.

QuoteYou also said that you agree that companies have observable behavior.

Wrong. It is of my opinion.

QuoteSo you agree that through empirical evidence (youtube's siding with corporate in the past, repeated times, in an almost predictable fashion) we can observe what they have done in the past.

You can't "observe something with empirical evidence". You can make predictions with empirical evidence.

QuoteWhat they have done in the past resulted in False DMCA takedowns, censorship, and all the other crap we already discussed. You know those things exist, you can see people complaining about this negative impact on IOC's all over the youtube community.

In other words, this video's claims are based on youtube's behavior in the past, which has obviously negatively impacted IOC's in the past.

I think it's safe to assume it will negatively impact IOC's again, Doku.

Let me put it in simple terms for you so that there is no possible way for you to mis-understand it:

1) Empirical observation of Youtube = Siding with corporate. They always do it.

2) Siding with corporate had secondary consequences = False DMCA's. Channel take-downs. Un-founded threats of legal action.

3) False DMCA's. Channel take-downs. Un-founded threats of legal action. = A Negative impact to Youtube IOC's. The IOC's have themselves been calling attention to it as a problem for them. They are themselves SAYING it is a bad, negative thing.

4) It is reasonable to expect that Youtube siding with corporate yet again will produce a negative impact for IOC's.


This is a very real possibility. It's not even debatable.

Thus, the video.

I hope that lets you understand why the video was made, and why it makes such claims.

So you predict that because Youtube sides with the big guys and unfairly moderates, any and all actions it takes are automatically bad for IOC creators. I shouldn't need to tell you how ridiculous that sounds.

Perhaps what the problem is that you are struggling to understand how to prove your case, this is how:

1. Collect data on the amount of views each user gets per video (channels views can also be included) one month before youtube implemented this change and one month after, being sure that you categorize the users (ie, the 0-500 viewed users, corporate users, something like that). Also be sure to tell how you got these numbers. How do you do this? I don't know. Ask around.

2. Compile the results into a graph. See if the accumulation of view counts does indeed go down. If it does, then you were right! If not, then you were wrong.

3. Give me results.

Remember, YOU don't have to do the dirty work yourself, you don't have to collect the data yourself. You can ask someone else to do it, but it is ultimately the burden of proof lies on you or therealweeklynews. Until you do this, I will consider all and any arguments you can come up with to be faggotry, fail and AIDS and will be ignored. You may ask for clarification on the experiment and negotiate it's parameters, though. Until then, I have nothing more to say to you on this subject. I got things to do IRL, and I can't spend another week arguing with someone that can't admit defeat or fault. Good day.

Now feel free to gloat and beat your chest in victory for "pwning me by repeating the same argument over and over again in different clothing", like the man-gorilla you are.

QuoteSo you predict that because Youtube sides with the big guys and unfairly moderates, any and all actions it takes are automatically bad for IOC creators. I shouldn't need to tell you how ridiculous that sounds.

No, I predict that because Youtube has sided with the big guys in the past, which has caused a negative impact for IOC's in the past,
siding with the big guys now will also cause a negative IOC impact now.

I don't think that sounds ridiculous at all.

You already conceded that there has been a negative impact to IOC's in the past, here;

QuoteI am NOT saying that false DMCA takedowns and like don't negatively effect IOC creators

False DMCA takedowns and the like negatively effect IOC creators.
False DMCA takedowns and the like are the consequence of Youtube siding with the big guys in the past.

Youtube is siding with the big guys yet again.

It is reasonable to assume that this will produce negative consequences to the IOC creators yet again.

You called the video alarmist, I was just trying to explain to you why the claims in the video were made and
are truly far from alarmist, considering the negative impact Youtube's history with corporate has had on IOC's in the past.

QuoteI got things to do IRL, and I can't spend another week arguing with someone that can't admit defeat or fault

Winning an argument is not a criterion that is simply achieved by declaring it.

Indeed, the mere fact that you need to make such a statement seems to suggest that you do not think
that this is self-evident from your argument.

I can't believe I read that all .