Final Fantasy Hacktics

The phrase, I mean.

I'm tired of hearing about lolpatches.

I was, myself, greatly successful at just ignoring lolpatches and letting them fail or succeed in their own good time.

Now you guys are devoting more time and energy into destroying any and all patch ideas that seem like they might not go anywhere than the creators of lolpatches spend creating their lolpatch. That's dedication. But if a hundred topics about lolpatches die, and sit around here "taking up space," how does that actually effect any of us? It gives us more topics to ignore, and the few people interested in helping some poor dope and his or her new lolpatch will make friends and learn how to not get any further in their lolpatch together. In some RARE occasions, something will spark, and an amazing patch will suddenly be in the works--but that's certainly not going to happen if every lolpatch is judged right from the start and destroyed with impunity.

I agree that any up-and-coming lolpatch creator should put more time and effort into their patch before creating a topic. They should definitely have something to show for it. But you guys are talking elitist hierarchy--a near-Gamefaqs level of moderation. What good is a site like this, a site devoted to hacking FFT, if you won't even allow the half-interested just as much access to public attention as the extremely devoted? So what if they're only half-hearted about their ambitions? You guys really think they should drop their meager plans in order to contribute to larger, worthier projects with their meager abilities?

Maybe they only want to play around with the idea of hacking FFT for a short while, and then move on to other things. Not everyone makes this a hardcore hobby.

Don't get me wrong; those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects make this a great, strong community. But if we turn into a clique, and start making laws that prevent the up-and-coming talents from having a chance to prove themselves, then we're going to continue to be a small clique. If you want rules, keep them simple, so you don't alienate everyone right from the outset:

1) Don't post a new project with the expectation that others should do your work for you.

2) Take some time to gather your ideas, test them a bit and develop your goals before presenting it in a topic.

That's it. The dedicated will thrive, the half-hearted will fade into obscurity. Those of us interested enough in a good idea to support it will keep those topics alive.. and the rest will float down to the bottom without causing us any more grief.

The way you guys have been discussing lolpatches lately.. Well, let me put it this way: If I had never created the CoK, and I suddenly, today, posted a new topic about my idea to create a cinematic fanfiction of FFT, you'd judge it as a lolpatch and ridicule me into leaving before I could even finish the first scene. It wouldn't matter to you if I had a script, my characters, my ideas and my goals all lined up and written out; Asmo could take one look at it, see that it doesn't offer anything fresh to the community (as a plan, anyways), call it a lolpatch, and then everyone else would hop on board with him and fire the cannons until I sank.

Granted, I could hold off and not post anything until I had a completed first video, but those of you familiar with the CoK and its history know that the only reason I was able to finish The Villian of Ivalice was because I had such strong support from the Gamefaqs community. If I didn't have that, I would have stopped around the Grog Hill scene and decided that my time would be better spent working on my novels or short stories instead.

TL;DR

I think we should:

- moderate the new projects topics that LACK PRE-DEVELOPMENT

- Stop judging the ideas ourselves, and let them do what they do

- Allow success and failure to occur naturally

thank you

can't make a patch without experience

can't get experience without trying to make a patch

Come to FFH knowing everything about hacking already or gtfo.

~

On a slightly related note, anything I can help with on CoK, bp?

My thoughts exactly... but the other's just won't see it this way. Maybe this will convince them. I honestly had no problem with them.

I agree with most of this. but the problem with spamming lolpatches is its space that we PAY for. its not like zodiac pays 9.99 a month for unlimited space. he is allowed a set storage, and most likely if he were to go over that, he has a fee to pay, or the site goes down.

Saying that letting numerous topics sit and distill has no harm is like saying 'metallica sucks cause it doesnt rap enough'.

Asmo or VC as mods would be great, but i do hope that if one of them makes it as a mod, that they let some of these patches be. alot of them are good ideas, but there are so many vague and useless ones...those are the ones they are talking about getting rid of. things like call of power, that is a really good start to a project. asmo wouldnt remove something like that, even BEFORE the videos were released. especially not cause he didnt like it.

If it is  a fail idea, asmo would say so. but nto eveyones tastes are to asmo's. and he knows that. if someone likes something done one way, there are others out that may like it to. hes not going to delete it cause "it sucks" to him, hed delete it if the topic has serious developmental/informing problams.

QuoteI agree with most of this. but the problem with spamming lolpatches is its space that we PAY for. its not like zodiac pays 9.99 a month for unlimited space. he is allowed a set storage, and most likely if he were to go over that, he has a fee to pay, or the site goes down.

Considering most topics are just text (no ppf, uploaded images onto FFH space, etc), the bandwidth usage is minimal.  It's just text for the reader to wade through, but the data space argument is horrible.

I should also add two points:

1 - I don't want to be the moderator of this board. Don't nominate me.

2 - The Villian of Ivalice was released in June of 2008. At the rate things are going, it's looking like Part 2 will be released around the same time, if not later. That's ONE WHOLE YEAR that Cheetah and I have spent working on it, and production has often been slowed or completely stopped by IRL disasters or obligations. There have been long periods of time where I haven't posted anything around here, I disappear, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm not dedicated to the project. It just means I have real life obligations that sometimes take priority over my hobbies. By the definitions expressed here lately, that puts me in the lolpatch zone.

Philsov, I appreciate the offer. At the moment, there isn't a whole lot to help with.. but then again, progress has slowed because A) I'm a full time student and full time employee, so my spare time is severely limited for the next few months and B) Cheetah is working full time as well, starting grad school and planning a wedding. We each have our to-do lists for the project, and it's just a matter of doing what we can when we can. Perhaps we could use some more help.. but I'd have to think about the logistics, as it can often become more complicated to take on more help, due to lengthy explanations and directions and such. Let me think about it, and I'll definitely contact you if I think of a way you could help.

QuoteI was, myself, greatly successful at just ignoring lolpatches and letting them fail or succeed in their own good time.

That's nice. I'm sure we are all able to do that NP, and have been for awhile. The problem is that by current rules + voting system, anyone can get own forum section. While it is not a problem now (and probably won't be in the future when Zodiac re-works the way the projects are organized and divided) it will be a major problem when you see 8 different forum sections on a project that is basically the same glorified lolpatch.

QuoteBut if a hundred topics about lolpatches die, and sit around here "taking up space," how does that actually effect any of us?  

It'll convince Zodiac that something is indeed wrong and cause some changes to happen

how else did you think it can actually affect you?

If Asmo becomes moderator of this forum (best person for the job by far), your mother is gonna feel the effects

QuoteIn some RARE occasions, something will spark, and an amazing patch will suddenly be in the works--

Right, and it'll be the moderator's job to allow that patch to have its own topic and contribute ideas for it, maybe even 1 day getting it's own forum section

QuoteDon't get me wrong; those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects make this a great, strong community. But if we turn into a clique,

and this is where your entire argument hits a reality check fail

those of us that are truly dedicated to our projects are the people who make this site what it is

people like melonhead, lasting dawn, zodiac, you, zozma, and others

however if people who ARE NOT dedicated to their projects have a chance of getting own forum sections, they detract attention away from the projects that deserve work put into them

relying on the

Quotesuccess and failure to occur naturally

is not working, and is the entire reason the lolpatch issue has been started

if the

Quotesuccess and failure to occur naturally

was working on it's own, intervention would not be needed, and we would not be calling for New Projects to get it's own Moderator


And I'm sorry, but if Asmo saw a rough draft of the CoK (and based on what I have seen from your VERY early work) he would NOT delete any of that

I know you like to play devil's , but there IS something wrong with this section

and pretending like it'll go away on it's own is NOT the solution


TL:DR

I DISAGREE!!!!!


Asmo for moderator of this forum and all your lolpatch issues will go away, and you can be sure only quality IDEAS (not hacking talents, btw philsov, because we are all still learning just like the hacking n00bs) will get the attention they deserve

what arch, gonna ignore my money issue? that is a really good counter point to BPs "how does that actually effect any of us"

And it is agreed, arch. there isnt "ALOT" wrong with the section, other than lots of lolpatches/personal projects that are asking/recieving their own section. though i think BP missed this point

If money and bandwidth usage is really an issue, I nominate myself as moderator of the spam forum.  It contributes nothing to this site, and uses more bandwidth.  It should be the first to be culled.

You speak as though the front page is overloaded with failed patches with their own forums.

All I see is:

Mercenaries

FFT v1.3

Symbols of Rage

FFT Remix


I think your response falls into what I described as "going overboard" in my poll. You're seeing a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger problem than most of us are seeing.

If the current voting method for getting a forum section is flawed, then why does the front page only have 4 main project boards?

If anything, when the community would give VOTES to nominate a project to its own section, it was done back when there weren't a lot of us in the community. I agree with an overhaul of how that system should work, to adapt with the changes, but do you see any of us throwing our votes into any and every good idea that shows up here anymore? A great idea is just a great idea; we don't think to nominate it for its own board until that great idea has become a year's worth of great ideas and legitimate progress has been made.

Weird how you say that BP. i had a whole bunch of votes for little-to no project. barely even a class demo. granted i quickly exapnded, but even back when the community was small. it took 7 hours for me to get a forum section, with only screenshots.

agreed philsov. i take your point and eat my own.

QuoteIf the current voting method for getting a forum section is flawed,

it is lol

did you see Zozma's "HEY taim for FFT REmix own forum section" topic?

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2098 (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2098)

you'll get a kick out of that one

what we're saying is that's gonna happen again

change the system before it does

QuoteNew requirements to get a forum section will rise up like hell now. FFH became too big for just 100 points.

This is already acknowledged by zodiac.

Quote from: "philsov"

QuoteNew requirements to get a forum section will rise up like hell now. FFH became too big for just 100 points.

This is already acknowledged by zodiac.

ya

and you're still gonna see votes from guys like this:

Quotesame here, I haven't been following the patch but I still agree it should get a forum section

point system won't work even if it was 500 points

sorry

people vote based on what looks cool and flashy

not on projects that have people dedicated to finishing them / the time to make them worth a damn / good ideas

I'll repeat it again here: Asmo for moderator

SentinalBlade, are you still working on your patch?

Are you still keeping up with this community, and posting frequently, and networking with the rest of us, and keeping a close eye on the talents and personalities of FFH?

Are you still motivated?

I'll go ahead and answer that: Yes, all of the above.

So shut up already. You deserve your forum section, because you're still an active creator. Even if you slow down, and even if it takes you two years to finish one chapter of your patch, you're still contributing to a great idea.

If we someday end up with "zomg 8 forum sections" of New Projects, and FFH spirals into the nightmare reality of too many great ideas being worked on by too many people, then Voldemort will be the first person I apologize to for allowing things to get that bad.

We should stop them all now, surely.

havnt been following the patch...wtf? so he votes anyways?

it seems like of one person does it, the rest thinks its okay to do it.

Quote from: "bastardpoetry"when FFH spirals into the nightmare reality of too many great ideas being worked on by too many people, then Voldemort will be the first person I apologize to

that's exactly  the situation right now

except that our comminity is SO SMALL that the work being divided into the currently existing projects + lolpatches is causing the same exact splitting up of talent you are describing

except it's worse, because the good talent is being divided between good AND terrible ideas

I expect an apology via mail or email (or you can send a guy dressed in a teddy bear) soon!

Just to bakc up Voldemorts 'numerous personal patches' and work divided point...

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=577&highlight=support)

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367&highlight=support)

http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtop ... ht=support (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=419&highlight=support)


thats 3. without searching. their names even have something akin to 'my patch' in the title

to back up Voldemorts voting thing

in the ovelia chapters topic. the ovelia chapters is clearly NOT A PATCH, but goomba clearly says

Quote from: "Goomba"I'd like to see this patch created.

we are giving this man the power to vote, over a topic that was tl;dr

It speculates much later in the topic, that it may become a patch, but right then, it was just a script of a story that was made up.

Are you really saying that the Ovelia patch will have its own forum section within the next few months because of Goomba's joke post? Zodiac, and the numerous other people it takes to vote it up to the new quota of points, are not that stupid. Maybe that's the problem. You guys assume the voters are all retards, just because a handful of people like one idea in one topic, when the majority of people ignore it and don't vote. Notice that those projects don't have their own forum sections? You guys are getting too worked up over nothing.

Your assesment of how the "strong talents are being divided," really only applies to guys like Cheetah and Zozma, who lend their spriting expertise to anyone they feel like helping. Should it really matter if they choose to help me one minute and a guy with 2 posts the next? Do any projects suffer from the fact they happen to be talented, nice, and capable of helping many at once?

Perhaps I need to clarify this to you, Voldemort, because I don't think you even know what you're arguing with, against me. I think you're ignoring my points and fighting me on the ones you've wrapped yourself around in your own head.

MY POINT: A moderator for this forum IS needed, but s/he should monitor laziness; NOT judge ideas.

Read that again carefully, and let it soak in. I'm NOT saying that this section shouldn't have a moderator. I'm NOT saying that the voting system for getting forum sections is perfect. I'm NOT saying every idea is a great idea and deserves a forum section.

I'm saying you're TOO PISSED OFF and you're blindly taking it out on EVERY IDEA that arrives on the New Projects board now, assuming the worst of all of them. You believe that stupid voting will give all of them their own section, even though FFH history has shown that the best and brightest ideas are the only ones that get them.

Steps ARE being taken to increase the vote quota, Zodiac DOES pay attention to his forum, and I highly doubt--scratch that, DOWNRIGHT REJECT--the idea that a lame duck project would get its own forum section because too many people voted for it without thinking.

QuotePerhaps I need to clarify this to you, Voldemort, because I don't think you even know what you're arguing with, against me. I think you're ignoring my points and fighting me on the ones you've wrapped yourself around in your own head.

What? I'm trying to improve the site and nominating Asmo as a moderator, that's all I am trying to do

I'm ignoring alot of your points because you don't seem to understand the situation as well as the people who frequent the site more (like SB)

the only points I've wrapped myself around in my head is that this forum has a problem and Asmo is teh solution!

QuoteI'm saying you're TOO PISSED OFF and you're blindly taking it out on EVERY IDEA that arrives on the New Projects board now

lol

I think you are confusing me with Asmo

I rarely even post on this forum, and have given zero indication for being pissed off at anyone... really, the "YOU'RE JUST ANGRY!!!" accusation doesn't make much sense here

QuoteMY POINT: A moderator for this forum IS needed, but s/he should monitor laziness; NOT judge ideas.

that's half-assing it and is a subpar solution

not every idea is created equal, and people who are critical of what ideas are awesome and what ideas are lolmypatch do exist (Asmo)

QuoteSteps ARE being taken to increase the vote quota,

vote quota (increased or not) is not a valid solution

never has been

like I said to philsov, it'll solve nothing




Also, in case the reason you are defending the lolpatchers is because you somehow believe CoK would be classified as a lolpatch or something (which you gave some indication of in your OP):

CoK is not a lolpatch and with a moderator like Asmo a project like it WOULD indeed thrive

We need less differentiation between New Projects and Spam. You know, to fool people into posting their lolpatch ideas into the spam thread. They'll be easier to weed out.

I agree with bastard.

*Dormin Jake gains Transparent*

Okay, now I understand where you're coming from, Arch.

Quote from: "Voldemort"I'm ignoring alot of your points because you don't seem to understand the situation as well as the people who frequent the site more (like SB)

Nevermind the constant lurking I do. Nevermind the valid points I've made that Zozma, LD and philsov have agreed with.

I'll just put it bluntly, then:


What you're trying to do is not going to make the site "better."

You're turning FFH into an elitist playground with a "No Girls Allowed" sign.

I may be playing Devil's Advocate for the underdogs, like I always do, but you're advocating Cronyism.

Power only to those willing to play on your terms.

You want to talk about a better site, and better talents, and better projects and better ambitions, holding on to the best and the brightest people and encouraging them to thrive, then let me ask this:

Where's Curu these days?

QuoteYou're turning FFH into an elitist playground with a "No Girls Allowed" sign.

if by this you mean "no lol patches - serious discussion of serious ideas that have dedication and purpose behind them"

then yes, of course that's what I would love to turn FFH into

Quotebut you're advocating Cronyism.  

I don't even know what that means dude lmao

QuotePower only to those willing to play on your terms.

wtf? I think you are over-analyzing my suggestion for Asmo as moderator WAY too much...

what terms?

I'm saying nominate someone who is good at detecting BS

like Asmo

again, what terms? Asmo will surely behave differently than these proposed "terms" of mine, and I don't care

if I needed things to be "my way" I would be nominating myself for moderator,  don't you think?

QuoteYou want to talk about a better site, and better talents, and better projects and better ambitions, holding on to the best and the brightest people and encouraging them to thrive,

Yes, and that's what a good moderator in this forum will produce, end of story

QuoteWhere's Curu these days?

She doesn't come around anymore, and I don't know the reasons

what the hell does Curu have to do with any of this?

seriously now you just seem like you're posting just for the sake of getting the last post in


 I don't get it

Addendum: posting a poll asking "should there be stricter rules on lolpatches!?" in this forum is obviously going to get a predictable response

Quote from: "Voldemort"what the hell does Curu have to do with any of this?

Quote from: "bastardpoetry"You want to talk about a better site, and better talents, and better projects and better ambitions, holding on to the best and the brightest people and encouraging them to thrive, then let me ask this:

Where's Curu these days?

What he's saying that Curu was one of those amazing people we had on our site with her amazing spriting abilities.

She's gone for "unknown" reasons.

Quote from: "AngrySurprisedFace"

Quote from: "Voldemort"what the hell does Curu have to do with any of this?

Quote from: "bastardpoetry"You want to talk about a better site, and better talents, and better projects and better ambitions, holding on to the best and the brightest people and encouraging them to thrive, then let me ask this:

Where's Curu these days?

What he's saying that Curu was one of those amazing people we had on our site with her amazing spriting abilities.

She's gone for "unknown" reasons.

right

and her being gone for unknown reasons has nothing to do with this discussion or the changes we are proposing for the forum
 
(irrelevant to any discussion, really.. since no one knows why she left or even if she'll ever be back)

Wow Voldemort, stop listening to your E-penis.

I don't agree too much though, BP, okay, we ARE overeacting, but something needs to be done. It's not about the storage, Zodiac has eough for a community like us. (or at least, thats what ive been told) and if he needs donations one day, i am sure FFH will provide.

I simply think that this ''New projects'' should not be about random projects, with one guy that never changed events, and that never changed anything in FFTpacther ever. They should aquire some experience or have something to show, a new pacth post withouth pictures, story or info about the changes (not just items X are stronger, item Y are bad now) is not quite amusing to see.

And i've been thinking, Voldemort, if i lauched a vote for COP to get it's own section, it would not pass, i guarantee.

heh... our replies are nothing more then throwing more dry wood onto a fire.

ignoring the problem will be impossible if ppl keep responding to "it".

Quote from: "Kokojo"Wow Voldemort, stop listening to your E-penis.

I don't agree too much though, BP, okay, we ARE overeacting, but something needs to be done. It's not about the storage, Zodiac has eough for a community like us. (or at least, thats what ive been told) and if he needs donations one day, i am sure FFH will provide.

I simply think that this ''New projects'' should not be about random projects, with one guy that never changed events, and that never changed anything in FFTpacther ever. They should aquire some experience or have something to show, a new pacth post withouth pictures, story or info about the changes (not just items X are stronger, item Y are bad now) is not quite amusing to see.

And i've been thinking, Voldemort, if i lauched a vote for COP to get it's own section, it would not pass, i guarantee.

I agree (e-penis you really think so!!   )

and COP would pass a forum section vote test if you showed ALL the work you have

which I know is ALOT more than what is on that thread

Hem, you're actually quite wrong on that point. All i have done otherwise is some sprite import. 5-6 custom abilities, redone a part of the intro, and the story itself classes by events. And i am trying to crack the mid battle event. so no, it would't, i don't have much.

So well said!

Quote from: "Kokojo"Hem, you're actually quite wrong on that point. All i have done otherwise is some sprite import. 5-6 custom abilities, redone a part of the intro, and the story itself classes by events. And i am trying to crack the mid battle event. so no, it would't, i don't have much.

oh ok

then no, it wouldn't pass

whats ur point?

lolpatches are:

- unpopular and the creator relies on popularity to continue hacking; therefore PHAIL
- inactive... the topic is created and the patch maker will not do any progress until his/her topic has enough posts; therefore PHAIL
- the creator wants to make his/her personal patch, and doesn't care for other's opinion; therefore PHAIL

So let me get to the point:
Personally I, and I'm sure others, don't read the New Projects section anymore because it's so full of lolpatches and finding a good patch in that looks like hell.
How is that any worse than using a lolpatch radar to handle the currently existing lolpatches and other patches as well?

The point of having a mod is not banning creativity at all, it is to make sure people won't try to create lolpatches anymore... Or are you saying one must make a lolpatch before making a good one? If our mod can tell the person why their patch is a lolpatch and they should do something else, then how is it bad for anyone?

A lolpatch topic is useless on our forum, a waste of time, and makes this all garbled.

You guys (especially BP) are seeing some extreme measures which no one ever said would happen. Did the sprites section became super strict and unfriendly when I made Cheetah and Zozma mods? I think not. And Zozma did clean.

Quote from: "Zodiac"lolpatches are:

- unpopular and the creator relies on popularity to continue hacking; therefore PHAIL
- inactive... the topic is created and the patch maker will not do any progress until his/her topic has enough posts; therefore PHAIL
- the creator wants to make his/her personal patch, and doesn't care for other's opinion; therefore PHAIL

So let me get to the point:
Personally I, and I'm sure others, don't read the New Projects section anymore because it's so full of lolpatches and finding a good patch in that looks like hell.
How is that any worse than using a lolpatch radar to handle the currently existing lolpatches and other patches as well?

The point of having a mod is not banning creativity at all, it is to make sure people won't try to create lolpatches anymore... Or are you saying one must make a lolpatch before making a good one? If our mod can tell the person why their patch is a lolpatch and they should do something else, then how is it bad for anyone?

A lolpatch topic is useless on our forum, a waste of time, and makes this all garbled.

You guys (especially BP) are seeing some extreme measures which no one ever said would happen. Did the sprites section became super strict and unfriendly when I made Cheetah and Zozma mods? I think not. And Zozma did clean.

thank you

I should sig this entire thing but it's too long

SentinalBlade, you are so right. Well, you are right in saying that it was just a script. It was. It was an idea that I had and was fascinated with. And I totally respect your decision if you don't support me. But this isn't going to be just a script, or an 'lolpatch'. Even if it takes me 5 years, or 10, I -will- finish this. And yet, you are somewhat wrong... or maybe it was my screwy typing skills :)

Thank you Bastardpoetry for saying so elegantly what I have been thinking ever since the term "lolpatch" started cropping up around here. Just know that I support everything BP has said and will likely ever say on this topic. One of the main reasons I am here is to help people learn, build the community, and been learning more about how this game works. If someone has put effort (and I don't really care how much) into something FFT related then I don't really care if they post in the project section. If I have time I will look at it, if it looks interesting, then I will keep looking at it, and if it doesn't interest me then I can stop looking at it.

I could say a lot more on this topic, but BP is already saying it. The fact that members of this community are mocking the effort that other people are putting forth is really sad and pathetic. Do we really need to e reminded that "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."?

Once again, Voldemort, you missed the point entirely.

Zodiac, you missed it too, as far as what I'm saying versus what I'm fighting about. Look at the results of that poll I created, read what Zozma, philsov and Lasting Dawn (EDIT: and now Cheetah) have posted, and look at where we're coming from. That's all it is: A call for maturity on the boards.

My fight with Voldemort is something else entirely.

I started this thread as a way of saying yes, there is a problem here, a moderator is needed, but it's not going to be solved by terrorizing every new idea that comes along and labeling it a lolpatch. Voldemort and Asmo have become thugs, and their endless complaining about lolpatches and their zealous desire to kick anyone with an idea is not going to improve this community. I have not, at any point, said that taking administrative action, as Zodiac has done, is going to lead to the stifling of creativity. Quite the opposite, in fact. His new sticky topic is EXACTLY what I wanted to see.

I'm seeing "extreme measures," as Zodiac put it, with Voldemort's attitude and proposed solution. I don't think Asmo should be the moderator if the result is destroying any idea he deems unworthy. I think they have a thug approach that is too extreme. Someone could have a great plan, plenty of resources and ambition and all to create a sequel to FFVII using the FFT engine, and they could have amazing success with it, but Asmo could destroy it before it even really starts because he doesn't like FFVII. My point is that the rules should apply to every New Project, objectively; not the ideas that they think are worthy versus the ideas they think aren't.

Which is, again, EXACTLY what Zodiac has done. (Regarding his post; that's what I wanted, Voldemort. It's amazing how you took his post here and presented it as though that somehow showed me up).

The point about Curu: She left because her presence here caused extreme horndogism and jokes about her on the Spam board and, if I had to guess, she was repulsed by the immaturity.

That was my way of saying: Voldemort, quit lulzing for a fucking second and realize that there are consequences to your actions. You think it'd be funny to watch Asmo tear new project ideas to pieces; your nomination has nothing to do with the belief that he'd actually clean up the board with objectivity and rationality.

Hell, I don't even want to see Asmo put into the position of having to deal with moderation objectively and rationally. He's too good at tearing people up with blunt honesty. He'd absolutely HATE having to be an objective moderator.

Anyways, I can't keep doing this. Voldemort, I'm not trying to get the last word against you. I didn't even start this with the intention of fighting with you. But if you keep treating me like an antagonist, I'll keep responding to you like one. All I ask is that you read what I'm saying, and understand where I'm coming from. If you can respond to that, I'll continue. If you can't, then I won't continue trying to reason with you. It's too much like fighting with someone who plugs his ears and says "I can't hear you!"

Quote from: "Cheetah"Thank you Bastardpoetry for saying so elegantly what I have been thinking ever since the term "lolpatch" started cropping up around here. Just know that I support everything BP has said and will likely ever say on this topic. One of the main reasons I am here is to help people learn, build the community, and been learning more about how this game works. If someone has put effort (and I don't really care how much) into something FFT related then I don't really care if they post in the project section. If I have time I will look at it, if it looks interesting, then I will keep looking at it, and if it doesn't interest me then I can stop looking at it.

I could say a lot more on this topic, but BP is already saying it. The fact that members of this community are mocking the effort that other people are putting forth is really sad and pathetic. Do we really need to e reminded that "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."?

You and BP both don't see lolpatch as a problem, (or perhaps you guys are way too nice to "fix" the problem if it involves killing other people's ideas)

 you'd prefer to just leave things as are and hope for rainbows

I understand not everyone likes change

but I agree strongly with what Zodiac just said on this topic

and if this forum gets a moderator (asmo or someone else) the problem will have been addressed in my eyes

Quote from: "bastardpoetry"FFH spirals into the nightmare reality of too many great ideas being worked on by too many people, then Voldemort will be the first person I apologize to for allowing things to get that bad.

We should stop them all now, surely.

This is extremely well said. lolpatch is an annoyance and ultimately degrades the site as a whole. how can a community be respected when 1/100 POSTED AND STATED ideas are actually good and worked on seriously?

i've worked on 3 lolpatches that i kept to myself because they suck or fail and i'm just trying to learn how to use the patcher more efficiently. people are posting their own ideas for attention and because they just wanna be cool and have their own forum section

Arch you seem to be missing the point time and time again.

Read the words spoken to you without a need to argue against them. Then if you still have a problem that's when you post.

I agree 100% with BP on the issue at hand.

Quotence again, Voldemort, you missed the point entirely.

Zodiac, you missed it too

That's pretty funny because Zodiac controls what happens on the site

if he missed the point on the problems in his own site I don't know what to say about you then

QuoteVoldemort and Asmo have become thugs, and their endless complaining about lolpatches and their zealous desire to kick anyone with an idea is not going to improve this community.

what in the world are you talking about? I never even post here dude

so where exactly am I getting a 'zealous desire to kick everyone with an idea'??

I said that having a mod in here will improve this community

and trust me

it will

QuoteI'm seeing "extreme measures," as Zodiac put it, with Voldemort's attitude and proposed solution. I don't think Asmo should be the moderator if the result is destroying any idea he deems unworthy.

Huge assumption..

 You have ZERO idea of how Asmo (or anyone else Zodiac is thinking of for mod) would be like as Moderator. Then again you don't know Asmo as well as Zodiac and I do.

Perhaps you take his troll posts seriously, in which case, your view of him is HORRIBLY distorted from what he is really like

QuoteThe point about Curu: She left because her presence here caused extreme horndogism and jokes about her on the Spam board and, if I had to guess, she was repulsed by the immaturity.

wrong

she mentioned that she had some IRL problems to deal with, posted twice, then left

she also mentioned several times that she cared not about the joke topics made about her

nice try trying to bring in a totally unrelated point into this discussion about lolpatches, though

QuoteVoldemort, quit lulzing for a fucking second and realize that there are consequences to your actions. You think it'd be funny to watch Asmo tear new project ideas to pieces;

no I wouldn't, nice assumption though

Quoteyour nomination has nothing to do with the belief that he'd actually clean up the board with objectivity and rationality.

wrong again

my nomination has to do with my experiences working with asmo on 1.3 in the past

that guy has a sense of design and problem solving like no one else on this entire site, and he would make a great mod for this forum just because of how he can spot a good idea immediately

then again you wouldn't have figured that out on your own, you went right for an assumption based on... I don't know, your imagination, of why you think I'm nominating Asmo for Mod

QuoteHell, I don't even want to see Asmo put into the position of having to deal with moderation objectively and rationally. He's too good at tearing people up with blunt honesty. He'd absolutely HATE having to be an objective moderator.

Blunt honesty never hurt anyone

nice speaking in Asmo's place there, though


Are you a fortune teller? you talk like you knew how Asmo will act as a moderator!!!

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Arch you seem to be missing the point time and time again.

Read the words spoken to you without a need to argue against them. Then if you still have a problem that's when you post.

I agree 100% with BP on the issue at hand.

hi there 3rd party guest-in-the-argument

your level of relevance here is undetermined

Exactly what I am talking about man.

You are looking for a fight and are now starting to act like a cornered animal.

Fighting back to those who may not even hold animosity towards you, as I do not.

why does everyone think asmo would tear up the new projects forum?? yeah he gives criticism but that's because SOMEONE needs to instead of saying "good job dude!!" which is how undeserving forum sections get created... because no one wants to hurt anyone's fucking feelings. Asmo isn't the dick everyone thinks he is, and he deserves a mod position more than most

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Exactly what I am talking about man.

You are looking for a fight and are now starting to act like a cornered animal.

I'm not looking for a fight, I am trying to make people understand that a moderator is needed here

and if you back up BP's point of view that things are fine and dandy I am going to call you out on what you're doing (joining the argument for fun)

QuoteFighting back to those who may not even hold animosity towards you, as I do not.

I don't think anyone here holds animosity towards me

the only person who has reason to hold animosity towards me is blackmageshin

I ate that guy alive a couple of months ago and made him ragequit the site

so trust me, that's not the reason I am replying to you right now

nice theory though I guess

Quote from: "dwib"because no one wants to hurt anyone's fucking feelings.

exactly

and feelings, unfortunately for you carebears (BP, Cheetah, others) have little to do with solid ideas

the sooner you realize this the sooner you understand the problem

Also, Dwib is right about Asmo

when it comes down to it, Asmo is way more tame than you're making him out to be

he will sit down with you and give you a solid logical process of why an idea won't work, and why x or y solution is better in your specific project

he's that good

like I said before those who don't know Asmo don't know what they are talking about

There's a reason blunt honesty has such a name. It does hurt people. Constructive criticism =/= blunt honesty. Blunt honesty will get you fired, get you beat up, stifle relationships, cause people to either lose or gain respect for you (double edged sword). That's just the short list.

Constructive Criticism:

"I don't like how this and this turned out. You should look into this, this, and that or try this - otherwise so&so feels lacking. Consider the effect of blah blah on the blah blah."

Blunt Honesty:

"Yea, the such & such are all wrong. Fix them or you won't end up with anything  of merit."

If you don't notice the difference there...

I did not join the argument just for fun, that is the last thing I would do as I never do anything "just for fun".

I never said a mod isn't a good idea and neither did BP.

I am overly critical of Asmo because whenever I have tried to have a decent conversation with him he tried to make me ragequit.

If he is as you say we should make him a mod. I am just speaking from experience of dealing with him. In all off our conversations he tried to troll me and on occasions admitted that he was being serious. Though again if I could see him as you do that would be nice.

If we could end this argument in a way that helped the site I think it would be for the best. All I see happening right now is a small scale civil war which could end very bad for us.

I love this place and would like to see it flourish. For that to happen though we need a solution to this argument everyone agrees with. (Or at least the vast majority.)

Quote from: "SydneySoul"There's a reason blunt honesty has such a name. It does hurt people.

enlighten us

Quote. Constructive criticism =/= blunt honesty.

Constructive Criticism = Blunt Honest when you limit the Constructive Criticism to the person's ideas for a FFT project

the problem is way too many people take CC for their projects AS Blunt Honesty and get their feelings hurt

Blunt Honesty about a FFT project never hurt anyone

QuoteBlunt honesty will get you fired, get you beat up, stifle relationships, cause people to either lose or gain respect for you (double edged sword).

examples are irrelevant and are borderline on stupidity

you don't Blunt Honest your boss, cuz you get fired

however you do Blunt Honest when you want an idea to improved



this is a FFT hacking site

blunt honesty about trying to improve ideas works, without it, "constructive criticism" candy coats too much of what needs to be said

QuoteConstructive Criticism:

"I don't like how this and this turned out. You should look into this, this, and that or try this - otherwise so&so feels lacking. Consider the effect of blah blah on the blah blah."

My feelings are now hurt

your Blunt Honesty has now hurt my feelings and I will ragequit the entire project

bye

I agree with SydneySoul. If Asmo or you, Voldemort, would just help with the constructive criticism and tell them what's wrong with their patch that makes it an 'lolpatch' in your eyes, instead of 'this sucks!', maybe there would be less 'lolpatches'. Just a thought. But I do think that there should be a point in time where, if the poster of the topic requests that their particular topic be deleted because they don't want to do it anymore, then I think it should be complied. That would  free up more space, so SentinalBlade wouldn't have as much of a problem.

I did not see a solid argument in that reply Arch. Sorry it just didn't happen that time.

Also HM the same could be said about that agreement statement.

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"I agree with SydneySoul. If Asmo or you, Voldemort, would just help with the constructive criticism and tell them what's wrong with their patch

don't you think a moderator would be more efficient with this?

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"I did not see a solid argument in that reply Arch. Sorry it just didn't happen that time.

I did not take logic101 class so you might see me using some ad hominems and some red herrings

sorry my arguments don't adhere to your high standard of quality DP

Quote from: "Voldemort"I did not take logic101 class so you might see me using some ad hominems and some red herrings

sorry my arguments don't adhere to your high standard of quality ph33rb0t

I do not have high standards it would just be nice to see arguments with merits and not the start of a flame fest.

Sometimes, yes. But not just one. One person in control of this could spell disaster for you and bastardpoetry both, if it goes either way. That is why I think we need two- one from each side. They would both have to agree on something for it to happen. Even, no?

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"Sometimes, yes. But not just one. One person in control of this could spell disaster for you and bastardpoetry both?

uh... not really

(unless Asmo gets it because some people seem to not want Asmo as mod of this place)

Debate is a good class though, you should take it, it is quite fun.

The solution to this problem is evident, Algus must be made the moderator! The way he mends words is uncanny.

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"

Quote from: "Voldemort"I did not take logic101 class so you might see me using some ad hominems and some red herrings

sorry my arguments don't adhere to your high standard of quality ph33rb0t

I do not have high standards it would just be nice to see arguments with merits and not the start of a flame fest.

where have I flamed anyone

Your reply to SSoul was less constructed argument and more borderline flamebaiting.

Who is a nice person that people don't want as moderator? ... hmmm. This may not be solvable.

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Your reply to SSoul was less constructed argument and more borderline flamebaiting.

really?

I was trying to tell him that blunt honesty is an essential part of constructive criticism for ideas

I don't know why you think that is flamebaiting

Quote from: "Voldemort"

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"I agree with SydneySoul. If Asmo or you, Voldemort, would just help with the constructive criticism and tell them what's wrong with their patch

don't you think a moderator would be more efficient with this?

That is the job of a true community. Right now, I see a collection of cliques and very little essence of community.

It's also quite apparent that you , even though you deployed sarcasm, didn't get that constructive criticism and blunt honesty have fundamental differences that were already pointed out clearly enough for most to see.

Quote from: "SydneySoul"

Quote from: "Voldemort"

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"I agree with SydneySoul. If Asmo or you, Voldemort, would just help with the constructive criticism and tell them what's wrong with their patch

don't you think a moderator would be more efficient with this?

That is the job of a true community.

yes, but now that the community is larger than it was before (I'm not sure you were around here for that) that job is no longer done very well by the community alone

QuoteRight now, I see a collection of cliques and very little essence of community.

then I guess you can be our coach and show us how a community should act and police itself

QuoteIt's also quite apparent that you , even though you deployed sarcasm,

I am sorry for the sarcasm

I just cannot take your opinions about what this community should do on things like this seriously when you're posting from an account that was made 4 days ago

you're getting off easy here

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"Who is a nice person that people don't want as moderator? ... hmmm. This may not be solvable.

DARTHPAUL

Blunt honesty and constructive criticism are two part of the same tree and I have seen Asmo use them both very well. The problem is you have the conception they are the same thing.

CC is BH that is meant to be less blunt and help people.

BH is meant to assume the role of CC but has the ability to cut deep. Also the BH speaker normally is only trying to help. Seeing it that way you can understand why both get slung around here.

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Blunt honesty and constructive criticism are two part of the same tree and I have seen Asmo use them both very well. The problem is you have the conception they are the same thing.

I know they are different

I was trying to say that BH + CC can be good when it comes to ideas so malleable as FFT Hacking

Acting as a coach and showing the community how to act is the responsibility of both the moderators and admin/Zodiac. Yes, I'm new here. However, as a new member, I feel my words should be heeded. My views are likely shared by other incoming members that spend a few days browsing the topics. If I didn't have an interest in staying here and seeing what develops in terms of hacking, I'd already have been turned away (or used my extremely limited knowledge of two Japanese classes to struggle at understanding the Japanese hacking community XD).

Policing ourselves isn't ideal, however we should hold ourselves up to certain expectations and standards, just as we do offline.

I also denounce your 'nomination' of me. :p I hate playing leader.

Again, SydneySoul, I agree. The clique that is most prevalent in here includes some of the best people at hacking FFT. Which is a shame, because they could help everyone by pitching in on guides and helping with others' projects when they can. I mean, with their skills available for teaching, anything is possible!

We need a 'Guides' section, I think, because I (I hope I'm not alone) hate having to browse in the different sections for guides, and even then all I get are links to great guides for stuff, where it looks to be on this website where I can't find it, AND as a plus, it redirects me to the home page in 5 seconds right when I get there! I get really mad, and I think guides could provide the info noob patchers need to make their patches. Thus, creating less 'lolpatches'. Yay more ways to play FFT!

Some of us have the idea but not the skill... I myself falling a little into that category. Thank the Lord I don't have a forum.

I realize they can help, but BH causes some problems and arguments like this to occur.

BH is more or less something that should be chatted about over chat than the forums as more time passes here and thought and opinions warp in those lapses in posts.

Quote from: "SydneySoul"Acting as a coach and showing the community how to act is the responsibility of both the moderators and admin/Zodiac. Yes, I'm new here.

Fair enough

but I know Zodiac isn't interested in the position + he has tons of other things to do already

would you say a moderator is such a bad idea?

it works fine in other sections

I do not wish to get into an argument here, but these are my thoughts.

It is quite apparent that this section needs it's own dedicated moderator. However, my experiences may be little with Asmo, but I have witnessed him being quite "cruel" at times. The moderator for this section needs to be tolerant. And, I fear that Asmo personality type (from my limited view) may not be right for this position. He seems like a person who sometimes acts on impulse, choosing his times to be cruel seemingly at random. I may have phrased this in an incompetent manor, but my point is I don't think he would be good to be in a position of being a "judge".

Judges have to be fair, and at times I don't know if Asmo would be. I know some of his posts may be misunderstood, and his overly-blunt (often times unneeded) criticism may be mistaken as a "low blow". But, not everyone knows him like Voldemort, knows him. Yes, criticism is crucial for the development and advancement of ideas, but the way it is portrayed makes all the difference.

As this site grows, the more problems that accumulate, as with all things. The decisions that we make today, literally we determine the future of this site. The more "diverse" our population becomes, the clashing of heads will become more frequent. We must make our decisions as a whole community, if we do not the community could very well implode on itself.

Maybe moderator isn't so popular in this area because you are wanting Asmo as the moderator, which is getting some angry because of some crap that he jokes on them. And, is it just me, or did my 'Ovelia Chapters' come at the wrong time?

A moderator is needed of course, but as stated most don't think of Asmo the way he "really is". If he would troll less and show this real side of him we would understand. Though personality flaws do exist. Also Asmo has stated numerous time he doesn't want the title. Aso we don't have anyone with the "eye" for ideas that you say he has. If we do and I am mistaken tell me who it is and I shall work to change the render of my judgment.

Quote from: "CidIII"Assumptions about how Asmo would act as Moderator when he isn't even Moderator yet

Oh ok, I guess Asmo would make a terrible moderator then... let's scratch that idea.


The community's not going to implode on itself over this, dude

this is nothing lol

nicely written statements

Asmo is still the best choice for the position tho

I'm not against having a moderator at all. However, my understanding of this Asmo person's personality tells me he may not be the best for it. I haven't researched his character myself but if members of the community can't agree that he should have this responsibility then there might very well be reason behind this.

What's needed is a well-developed, slightly larger community voting for one to moderate. The nomination is the hard part, since a large chunk of members should share similar views. This is a small community, so choosing a moderator is hard work because you all know each other possibly too deep. With experience on other forums, moderators tend to have a small group of close friends and a large group of acquaintances or people that at least know of them before they are actually chosen as mods.

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"Maybe moderator isn't so popular in this area because you are wanting Asmo as the moderator, which is getting some angry because of some crap that he jokes on them. And, is it just me, or did my 'Ovelia Chapters' come at the wrong time?

Yes it did I would back up your data and submit it after some more progress has been made so that it will not as likely be seen as a "lolpatch".

What we need is a third-party moderator. Someone who isn't really staunch for or against this. In effect, they would have the perfect qualities of a moderator for this kind of forum. A soft-spoken individual with patience and a slow temper with no outbursts of mean-ness, but knows when enough is enough. For some reason I feel I should nominate Cheetah. If I recall correctly(forgive me if I'm wrong) he never said he was for or against this 'lolpatch' thing, but he said he would still help those who asked.

QuoteA soft-spoken individual with patience and a slow temper with no outbursts of mean-ness,

in other words

keep things as they are right now

jesus H Christ

you guys are pussies

Thank you darthpaul, I will not release any more info on it until I can be sure it will not be seen as an lolpatch.

Cheetah does seem like a good candidate, but we don't want to "overload his plate" as it where.

SydneySould and HatterMadigan are getting totally off subject.
Back to the real issue. Asmo is NOT such a bad guy. Asmo WOULD clean up the forums. Asmo IS the best man for the job right now. If I said Asmo is HOPE and CHANGE would you want him to be moderator? If I used happy words instead of mean, angry words like "realistic" and "critical" (which are positive traits for this position) would you want him to be moderator? I don't get what people want, becasue SydneySoul and HatterMadigan seem like they are arguing because they want to argue.

Quote from: "Voldemort"you guys are pussies

I think she meant a calm but honest person. Someone who know were the line is on roughness but will also step in to stop the lol.

Also as the quote goes FLAMING 101.

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"A soft-spoken individual with patience and a slow temper with no outbursts of mean-ness, but knows when enough is enough.

i just pooped my pants

Voldemort, I've got news about pussies... I HAVE ONE. I'm a girl! And I stand by what I said. Most don't want a bull on rampage as a moderator of their precious ideas! They want someone to help, guide, whatever, so that their idea can see fruition. I doubt that the majority would be happy with a mean moderator. Someone who can be mean is needed, yes. But not neccessarily mean, as I have heard about Asmo.

Soft-spoken people generally do not make good leaders.

And, I don't see hazing people off of the site as a positive trait.

Dwib I think you have touched the point.

Though realistic is a good quality while critical is the quality that has thrown us into this argument.

The mod has to be a critic of the ideas at hand but not become to critical of the ideas or users get angry.

the thing is too many people think "Asmo" they think "pwning n00bs and making them ragequit"

and while he has done that before

he's still an amazing idea person

if you don't know Asmo beyond the random flames you've seen him do

and if you haven't worked with Asmo in chat like LD, Zodiac, SB, and Myself have,

then don't talk about how he'd act as a moderator for an ideas forum

the ppl criticizing Asmo don't know what they are talking about



if I wanted ideas for my patch I would pick Asmo over ANYONE on this entire site

period

that's why he would make a kickass mod

not because he has flamed people before

I'll say it again: you guys are being a bunch of pussies and I really hope we don't get a subpar moderator because of it

because Asmo is the best you got for this position

QuoteVoldemort, I've got news about pussies... I HAVE ONE. I'm a girl!

congrats


I got what you were trying to say dude, and you're still wrong

Asmo #1

dwib, I'm trying to argue about this with hopefully sensible solutions. I'm not just going to argue about something with nothing, because that will go nowhere. And darthpaul, yes that is what I meant. Gosh!

And I'm sorry if anyone thinks I get off topic, I was diagnosed with ADD. I admit that my 'Guide' suggestion was a little off topic.

And Asmo is not the real issue on this topic. Just an issue for an issue.

Pointing out what is needed for a community isn't arguing. This refuting of you saying that I was arguing is arguing. And considering that we're talking about the nomination of a moderator, I've stayed pretty well on topic.

Quote from: "CidIII"Soft-spoken people generally do not make good leaders.

And, I don't see hazing people off of the site as a positive trait.

Not true soft spoken leaders are the great ones along with smart and wise leaders. You are looking at "soft-hearted" leaders. They are the ones who fail.

And hazing people off? Algus had that idea for the users with no posts. Look what happened to him. We want our community to grow not stay the size it is now.

We need new users to bring fresh ideas and the such.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/mkywp4.gif)

Pointing out what is needed for the community is arguing if it can help solve the problem in any way! I'm getting out now while I can. Maybe this will cool down. Hopefully. Because I agree with some and then I agree with others. Most of you have good points. Check back in a bit. Bye

Voldemort the point of the matter is is this going to be a democracy as Zodiac seems to have built it into. (And don't say then why don't we vote a new admin, that argument would be retarded.)

Or become a communist forum where everything is decided for us.

The people who have yet to learn who Asmo really is still have an opinion of him. That opinion is important.

Though I would like to get to know the side of him that is an idea analysis machine, we have to remember it is not just you SB LD and Zodiac here. You seem to suggest that the project leaders are right and we should hang on their every word. (Which I do but that's because I see the wisdom.)

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Voldemort the point of the matter is is this going to be a democracy as Zodiac seems to have built it into.

no

zodiac does as he wants

always has

that's why this site owns

decisions aren't infinitely held up on pointless debate, he just goes with what needs to be done

lol @ your bringing up democracy

btw my sig!!!

QuoteThough I would like to get to know the side of him that is an idea analysis machine,

that's the only side that matters for this job

Nice sig. And I was referring to the way he looks for our opinion first. If we were a true democracy nothing would get done here and we would stuck in a rut.

Quote from: "ph33rb0t"Nice sig. And I was referring to the way he looks for our opinion first. If we were a true democracy nothing would get done here and we would stuck in a rut.

then yes, you're right

Alright, after a deleted post (curse you Vista...) let's try this again (with 10 x less legibility...)

Yes there is a problem. The problem is, as been said is our unaccepting attitude towards new members. I will be the first to admit it. We cannot enter into an elitist mindset, I was once a moderator at another community, but because I wasn't there since it's relative inception I was normally looked down upon by the "veterans". Their existence seemed to be reviling new members and any threat to the way things were done. They were a bunch of pranksters who you really couldn't tell when they were serious or not (of course that community is another whole nutshell, it's purpose in mention only to explain my reasoning)

I see the same thing happpening here, not quite to the same extent, but that's how it always begins. Before you realize it you're immersed with putting down new members that dare to stand against your "ideals". The difference is this time I see what it's like being inside said, "clique" but in this I just can't stand with them. I command respect, for actually very little reason, the feeling's not exactly refreshing, since I've done very little to gain such. It is only because I'm with the "gifted individuals" that I carry this kind of weight around. That is the trouble with those kinds of happenings. Though it will always happen regardless. Remedying it once it's started though is not impossible. That is what we should aim to do.

We should allow the newer members to help us, and we in turn should help them. Now I'm not saying make every idea into a glorious beacon of light. But at least lend the person a bit of direction. Our large projects are just that. Because of their nature they will always attract people. They are projects that many people can help on, which is one of the reasons it has it's own section. Now I assure you though. Who ever becomes mod, they will do it in their own way.

Our contestants are Dominic and Asmo. Dominic has a generally great reputation, if not a bit unknown, from his debates about War of the Lions he seems to be able to stand his ground quite well. He is a very helpful person and has said he wants this position to feel he's doing more for the community. There would be moderation under his watch. Asmo is not so wholly different as you all are making him out to be, though. I have spent a lot of time speaking with him, dare I say I have many of Mercenaries achievements thanks to his advice. He is well spoken, but as Bastard Poetry has said, both Voldemort and Asmo might want to take a bit of a break from poking fun at others. That in itself is a rather poor character trait. That I feel is what a lot of people fear from him. He may also be a bit too heavy handed with his words at times, perhaps a bit too rough for a brand new member. Only experience would tell that though.

Whoever is chosen though will do a great job, but as mentioned before... it's not a matter of this section. This is just a stepping stone. As it stands now anyone who really stands against us "veterans", are continually ridiculed and it is no surprise they would leave. We should accept all Members as equal. Not all Ideas, but members. It is unwise to judge a member simply by one bad idea. Especially when everyone has vast room for improvement. If we get people to pul their weight, train them, no doubt that even the most backward and computer illterate person could become a great success, their ideas coming to fruition is the main reason many people join this community. After all, as philsov is always saying "Where all your dreams come true". It is what we should strive to make this community.

Say what you will about us "carebears", this approach worked great at the last community I was at. It helped many others look at the grand scope of what can be done, crack down on a main focal point, and work. I apologize for the long post, or if this is unreadable, but I'd just like to assure people that the moderator chosen, whoever it will be, will be the right man for the job. The main problem is not this situation, just what this situation is actually alluding to happening. Please everyone, keep this in mind.

QuoteOur contestants are Dominic and Asmo. Dominic has a generally great reputation, if not a bit unknown, from his debates about War of the Lions he seems to be able to stand his ground quite well. He is a very helpful person and has said he wants this position to feel he's doing more for the community. There would be moderation under his watch. Asmo is not so wholly different as you all are making him out to be, though. I have spent a lot of time speaking with him, dare I say I have many of Mercenaries achievements thanks to his advice. He is well spoken, but as Bastard Poetry has said, both Voldemort and Asmo might want to take a bit of a break from poking fun at others. That in itself is a rather poor character trait. That I feel is what a lot of people fear from him. He may also be a bit too heavy handed with his words at times, perhaps a bit too rough for a brand new member. Only experience would tell that though.

it's all unreadable (though I did read all of it)

I'll just say this

if Dominic gets the job and carebears it for 1 second I'm going to send a lolpatchbomb your way

a big one

also: do not make the mistake of thinking this is anything like what happened at your beloved community that exploded for no reason (Zodiac commands here dude)

I have zero intention of being hostile to anyone in this topic after this issue is resolved, and I'm sure they feel the same way

May I? BP, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't even have a notion. We discuss this forum in channel constantly (where every discussion of worth happens), and I have offered suggestion after suggestion about how it could be improved. I just now sent a PM to Zodiac with even more suggestions, none of which call for the deletion of ANYTHING. On the other hand, we have, in this thread, about half a dozen people running around with their hands in the air, warning of deletions and tyrants and cliques and insensitivity and how something simply MUST be done about the New Projects forum, without offering anything approaching a good solution. If I come across as constantly negative, do consider for a moment, that it might be because of the neverending tide of horseshit that is posted in this forum and may not necessarily have to do with my demeanor generally. I post some corn and people think they know me.

Quote from: "Asmo X"I post some corn and people think they know me.

This is the truest statement of this thread

QuoteMay I? BP, you don't know what you're talking about. You don't even have a notion. We discuss this forum in channel constantly (where every discussion of worth happens), and I have offered suggestion after suggestion about how it could be improved. I just now sent a PM to Zodiac with even more suggestions, none of which call for the deletion of ANYTHING. On the other hand, we have, in this thread, about half a dozen people running around with their hands in the air, warning of deletions and tyrants and cliques and insensitivity and how something simply MUST be done about the New Projects forum, without offering anything approaching a good solution. If I come across as constantly negative, do consider for a moment, that it might be because of the neverending tide of horseshit that is posted in this forum and may not necessarily have to do with my demeanor generally. I post some corn and people think they know me.

/end of thread

- Blaise Pascal

I'm back...

Asmo, I admit, I have done some of the running with hands in the air. But maybe if you told people why it was HS, in a nice(if at all possible) way lol, then people could actually see the 'other side' of you. They claim to have only seen the mean comments you post of them. You could prove 'em wrong. And I still stand by what I said before: A guide section would help this a bit. If there was a presented forum where only guides were stored, there would be less useless patches, because people would be able to do them. Some new members may have amazing ideas but no way to make them possible. And another thing I stand by: Request to delete dead topics(requested by poster, unless poster left or died jk) would also be effective. Maybe if a PM was sent to the dead topic's poster requesting permission to delete the topic in question, and it would be deleted in two weeks if they did not reply back, maybe that would be a sensible solution. It's not perfect... but it is the only thing I can think of right now....

I just can't understand it... this is not a time for harsh words and simple quotes to try and justify points. All you Both are doing is alienating yourselves from the community that you both proclaim that you can help. To get anywhere at this point (all you both are doing are saying that you won't ruin the community) in the worst possible way. This isn't a matter of "blunt honesty" this is a matter of hard-headedness. As it appears, whether it is true or not, I don't know. You both seem to think you're "above" the common member. We are all just members. We have our moderator status only because we head projects. In essence it's not a rank of leadership or anything like that. The only person that would hold it would be the moderator for the New Projects forum and Zodiac.

The people see this as a "clique" because that is what you present yourselves as. It's a poor way to go about doing things.

You rule LastingDawn! I really think you and/or Cheetah should be moderator. It's the wisest choice. And for everyone out there: it's not favoritism, because LastingDawn said that he was staunch against my FFT patch when he first thought it was going to be about sexual sprites, thank goodness I corrected that (error on my part), I didn't extrapolate very well... I hope you forgive me LastingDawn!

Dominic or Asmo. Asmo is a very decent guy and I am sure he would show this if he were to head the new projects forum. A slight change in attitude would be preferable though. If not him then Dominic. Level headed, can stand his ground very well. Also has a great scope on the situation surrounding this section. Cheetah is also Far too busy working on Chronicles of Kanbabrif. Not to mention he and I are both moderator's of other sections of the forums as it stands.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"I just can't understand it... this is not a time for harsh words and simple quotes to try and justify points. All you Both are doing is alienating yourselves from the community that you both proclaim that you can help. To get anywhere at this point (all you both are doing are saying that you won't ruin the community) in the worst possible way. This isn't a matter of "blunt honesty" this is a matter of hard-headedness. As it appears, whether it is true or not, I don't know. You both seem to think you're "above" the common member. We are all just members. We have our moderator status only because we head projects. In essence it's not a rank of leadership or anything like that. The only person that would hold it would be the moderator for the New Projects forum and Zodiac.

your head seems to be a little in the clouds today friend

Asmo hasn't said any harsh words at all

all he posted is truth

people are way over-reacting to the idea of him as moderator


WAY

but don't take my word for it (him being the best choice)

we'll see what Zodiac decides

QuoteIf not him then Dominic. Level headed, can stand his ground very well. Also has a great scope on the situation surrounding this section.

 I love Dominic but I can't say I agree with this

he can stand his own ground very well, that's great

but I don't think he understand the situation as well as asmo does

nor has he been on this site long enough

nor does he have the same understanding of what makes a FFT hacking idea good and efficient

Asmo has contributed to tons of projects and work idea-wise, way more than Dominic has

and I'm pretty sure his attitude wouldn't be a problem either

lol @ ppl stirring themselves into a frenzy over this

Oh, ok. I didn't know you both were so busy... Why not have two moderators who would have to agree on something? (for those who are sooo against Asmo)

To be frank, I feel that there really isn't much of a problem. In terms of new and active patches, there are very few coming through, and the few that are have their own sections. Can any of you name a currently worked on patch in "New patches" that contains some merit?

Asmo has made it clear that he doesn't want the position, there's a few reasons for that, but primarily if he had to work on the site he would stop enjoying it, that alone is reason enough for him NOT to be a moderator, despite how good he would be at it.

Yes, Asmo can be insensitive, yes he can be cruel, callous, and other words meaning "mean", but he is also honest, and has a sense of design that's remarkable and with a bunch of great ideas. He is constantly innovaing and there are very few people on this site who can match that. This is why I feel he should be made mod, even against his own desire.

QuoteVoldemort, I've got news about pussies... I HAVE ONE. I'm a girl!

Congratulations, here is your standard one vote, just like everyone else.

Many of my current forums have 3-4 mods modding multiple sections. Usually the vote is left up to two in how to handle bigger situations. We're not big enough for that, plus we're actually doing work unlike the other forums. So, HM, I don't think we're big enough to have multiple mods per section yet, outside of projects, unless people are willing to take time away from their patches and lives. Zozma and Cheetah have the sprite forum but it's a lot easier to maintain an image forum over an entire concept forum.

Also I'm getting this vibe...
Daddy's Favorite: Oh yea, brother? Just wait until daddy gets home.

I guess you are right, SydneySoul. It's just I don't know what else to do. Almost no one else has a sensible solution. Not saying my solutions are sensible, it's just I think they are, or else I would not post them.

Quote from: "Voldemort"your head seems to be a little in the clouds today friend

Asmo hasn't said any harsh words at all

all he posted is truth

people are way over-reacting to the idea of him as moderator


WAY

but don't take my word for it (him being the best choice)

we'll see what Zodiac decides

His post while excellent for the first part devolves into mere insults at the end. While quite clever, it hurts the case. (I suppose that's all how you view it though, simply my view)It probably should have been more directed at you, in the regards to seeming rather condescending in these matters. (I can understand where you're coming from though, you want to see us get more support, and limiting the typical dream patch would help us to do that, but I really don't feel it neccessary) as it stands all of the new projects are getting the appropriate amounts of attention. The only thing to fear is if a project of no worth shows up. The people are smarter then that and Any moderator would be able to shut such a notion down almost immediately.

I agree, Voldemort. Asmo or Dominic, both would make fine moderators. What should be done though is cleaning up the image of the sponsor and his choice. You are known for being rather crass, yet accepting, it really depends on the issue.

Unfortunately Asmo's reputation has been hurt through a myriad of things he's done. Whether jokingly done or not. This makes him viewed as "bad" in the eyes of the people. A person that "everyone loves to hate" cannot work, in such a place. I know he'll be a great moderator, you know that, but do the people? That in itself is my main worry here.

I don't know Asmo. He's never really put me on any bad spotlight. But he did comment on my topic as to where I saw no one understood me, so that's a good point. After some bad comments, I got it back on track with LastingDawn's help. I just assumed from others' opinions that he was 'bad news'. I see now it was a mistake. Please forgive me, Asmo! I mean, anyone can be mean, it's just more prevalent in others... I no this one girl who is so honest... it does hurt, but if you look past the pain, usually you see some truth in it. Unless it's just gossip. Sorry Asmo, for 'ass'uming.

-'ass' being on my part.

But if Asmo doesn't want it... does Dominic?

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"I don't know Asmo. He's never really put me on any bad spotlight.

g o d dammit man, Asmo hasn't ever put you in a bad spotlight because YOU'VE BARELY BEEN HERE AT ALL


I hate to be rude but you guys with extremely new inactive accounts need to stay out of this

no offense

but your opinion for this is irrelevant

you just don't have any significant amount of time and/or interaction spent on this site to know the people involved

none of them

My account isn't really new. I've been here three months, actually. It's just my life hasn't really allowed much free time until now. I usually just read, because I have no time to post with my slow typing skills. I am usually much more on-top-of things. My posts have mostly been recently, or in the distant past.

Like it or not Voldemort, it's these people we attract. All new people will have to learn what it means. They are what this conversation is really about by this point. These decisions directly affect them. This is why all of the moderators should have a good image, at least. You see, with Hatter for instance. A lot of the forum paints Asmo as a bad person, many new people will think this. What the people think of their leaders makes a large difference.

Quote from: "HatterMadigan"My account isn't really new. I've been here three months, actually. It's just my life hasn't really allowed much free time until now. I usually just read, because I have no time to post with my slow typing skills. I am usually much more on-top-of things. My posts have mostly been recently, or in the distant past.

that's ok

my point still stands tho

Maybe people could, you know, stop equating me with Satan. That'd be pretty big of them.

Ok, and you make your point. I haven't been here for a long time.

I don't think you're Satan, Asmo. Maybe a minion lol jk
You just have a blunt tongue.

Asmo, I'm sorry. I don't know you that well, and I shouldn't have judged you or spoken for you in a theoretical sense. When I spoke of your ability to deliver blunt honesty, I should have emphasized the fact that I do, actually, respect that about you. It's the same reason I respect Pieke on the GF board. I used your overall demeanor to illustrate my points, and I really should have picked someone I truly know better.

As for this mess.. I think my original intention with this topic has been met and dealt with admirably by Zodiac, and now deeper issues have surfaced. This is what I see:

This once was a community built on respect, understanding and ideas.

Now, those of us holding on to those ideals are being called carebears and pussies.

We made the mistake of holding on to the idea that maybe, just once, we could have one place on the internet that didn't have elitist hierarchy and rules (Gamefaqs) or sheer, mind-numbing hate (for the lulz), or drama in general. This was the place for intellectuals to discuss hacking their favorite game.

But it's becoming the worst of everything, and those of us who see that, are repulsed by it and attempt to do something about it are being treated with the attitude: "Relax, not everything is so serious business" at best, or just outright called pussies, at worst.

I hate what this place has become.

I'm bowing out now. I'm done trying to make this the better place I thought it could be.

I'll post again when I have Part II of the Chronicles finished.

Finally. It's over.

Indeed BastardPoetry, that was the main reason I joined here. There was only one leader who made the decisions, there were no arguments, no true fights of any meaning. I would have to say if I weren't so deeply embroiled in Mercenaries, I would probably leave as well. Well best of luck to you BastardPoetry, if you need any help I'll be here for a while more.

17:57  @Zodiac          ò Dominic won

Well, this ended quickly. In actuality I was frightened of inaction causing this to devolve. That should quell the situation for a much longer time.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Well, this ended quickly. In actuality I was frightened of inaction causing this to devolve. That should quell the situation for a much longer time.

Quell, but probably not resolve.

I should clarify:

I'm not leaving. I'll still lurk, as I always have, and I'll still work on my project and keep in touch with my friends here.

And I do still consider Voldemort a friend.

I'm just saying I'm finished with the bullshit.

I don't see how it isn't resolved. Voldemort said he wouldn't blow up if Dominic won and I think he'll keep his word

Quote from: "Asmo X"I don't see how it isn't resolved. Voldemort said he wouldn't blow up if Dominic won and I think he'll keep his word

Then conflict 100% resolved! Well, this has been a rather eventful Friday the 13th (which I blame for all the unpleasentness in the forum at this time)

While all of you were actually bashing yourselves, I took the time to determine which one was the best candidate: I thought about it a lot, made a questionnaire, had both of them answer it and came to a conclusion.

And to be honest, I'm quite ashamed of most of you and mostly Voldemort; you pushed way too much on the hate wave.

I didn't read the 5 last pages of this topic until I finally decided who would be the mod. Then all I can see before my eyes is bashing, flaming and trolling.

A lolpatch was originally just a patch where generics could use swordskill. I just thought I'd wait til now to mention that.

Also, I didn't really answer the questionnaire. I just sent Zodiac a giant corn picture.

Quote from: "Zodiac"While all of you were actually bashing yourselves, I took the time to determine which one was the best candidate: I thought about it a lot, made a questionnaire, had both of them answer it and came to a conclusion.

And to be honest, I'm quite ashamed of most of you and mostly Voldemort; you pushed way too much on the hate wave.

I didn't read the 5 last pages of this topic until I finally decided who would be the mod. Then all I can see before my eyes is bashing, flaming and trolling.

This... is why you're the leader, heh... good choice, a questionnaire is a good way to test someone (well duh?)

Quote from: "bastardpoetry"We made the mistake of holding on to the idea that maybe, just once, we could have one place on the internet that didn't have elitist hierarchy and rules (Gamefaqs) or sheer, mind-numbing hate (for the lulz), or drama in general. This was the place for intellectuals to discuss hacking their favorite game.

But it's becoming the worst of everything, and those of us who see that, are repulsed by it and attempt to do something about it are being treated with the attitude: "Relax, not everything is so serious business" at best, or just outright called pussies, at worst.

I hate what this place has become.

I'm bowing out now. I'm done trying to make this the better place I thought it could be.

what the fuck... I think you are over-reacting

Dominic will do a good job of destroying lolpatch, I'm sure

so things will improve

I only flame dumbshits. From my point of view, I'm helping the community

This has been a very interesting read.

You guys are done here, right?