Final Fantasy Hacktics

So like, there are lots of skills in each of these, with lots of aspects in each. Dunno how you planned to tackle this (karsten), but I'll list the BIG changes I think need to be pointed out in each skillset. Or maybe just problems with some.


Basic Skill - I know it's the base class, but surely we can do better than this. Dash and Throw Stone need to be more stable if possible.
Battle Skill - equipment breakage ignores evasion, but can still miss
Charge - CTR = X+1 for Charge +X, except +7 is 7, +10 is 9, and +20 is 12
Punch Art - Spin Fist - 2v2; Repeating Fist - 1v2, 1...11*PA; Earth Slash - 5v2
Steal -
Elemental -
Jump -
Draw Out - Holy Sword formula, Y=0; all offensive and add status http://auritech.byethost13.com/viewtopic.php?p=3368#3368
Throw -

Item -
White Magic - holy elemental, a bit weaker and high lv skills faster
Black Magic - bit weaker and high lv skills faster
Yin-Yang Magic - more accurate
Time Magic -
Blue Magic - idk
Summon - slower, cost more MP
Red Magic - low lv Blk/Whi and maybe Haste?

Sing - does not work when silenced, a bit faster
Dance -
Mimic - cannot mimic Invitation since that is a Ramza only skill now


Does anyone really care to see all the small details? We'll have to deal with them sometime karsten.

i think that those changes are quite ok.

charge is quite better now. we should make up some extra skill for squire too....

i wouldn't change elemental. its range it's crazy and can add various stats.

concerning throws, i would make throwing swords, spears, axes and such costier abilities. this way the ninjas in DD won't throw chaos blades and similar, and the class will be more balanced.

concerning red magic i would think of:
cure
cure 2
protect
shell
raise 1
esuna ?
fire/ice/bolt 1-2
poison
haste
slow

this would make up a skillset that is fast, not overpowered, and that someone might consider as secondary.

thoughts?

i forgot about blue mage. this is the skillset i CAREFULLY tested in my patch (in which blue mage had the same multiplyers of geo):

Choco esuna
Choco Cure
Choco Meteor
Blow fire
thunder/aqua/ice/wind soul
mimic titan
lick
magic spirit
goblin punch
odd soundwave

the last 3 skills were empty. i think that maybe gigaflare and explode can be good candidates?

now a few words on the skills. all of them are not even close to being broken. choco cure will cure at max less than 200, choco meteor will strike for around 150-200 at higest levels (good for finishing kneeling units). as you can notice this skillset i made for my patch contains lots of elements:

winds/fire/ice/thunder/earth/water

that is made on purpouse, so that you can exploit the monster's weaknesses. it also have weak support skills.

in short is a funny class to use, that might need higher multipliers than other classes. also it should be interesting to have it as secondary; it'll allow you to alway act somehow.

share your thoughts

QuoteCharge - CTR = X+1 for Charge +X, except +7 is 7, +10 is 9, and +20 is 12

I don't know why but although Charge is better I can't seem to wrap my head around that being the Archer ability. I wouldn't be able to see myself using their abilities.

Charge - Same as using Charge +3

Aim Throat - Low Damage, Adds: Silence

Poison Arrow - Low Damage, Adds: Poison

Double Shot - Attacks twice with less damage and slightly lower accuracy

Can't think of anything else for now for Archer.

Quotei forgot about blue mage. this is the skillset i CAREFULLY tested in my patch (in which blue mage had the same multiplyers of geo):

Choco esuna
Choco Cure
Choco Meteor
Blow fire
thunder/aqua/ice/wind soul
mimic titan
lick
magic spirit
goblin punch
odd soundwave

The Blue Mage skills look good, but I've always been used to a more varied group of skills like one ability from a many different types of monsters. A couple of moves that would be nice additions I think are:

- Drain Touch
- Thunder/Ice Bracelet (instead of soul, the soul moves may be good for elemental weakness but they are far too weak to be useful most of the time)
- Some Ahriman move (Death Sentence, Bravery Down one)
- Self-Destruct (although you already mentioned it)
- One of the pig moves (The farting or snorting one are not bad, their raising one is pretty good to but a little broken as it is at the moment)

If new monsters are added, then one of their moves can be added as well to the Blue Mage skillset.

Here's my suggestion for the blue mage skillset, we probably should get around to deciding on a set everyone agrees with.
choco esuna
choco cure
goblin punch
self destruct
mind blast (confusion or berserk)
wind soul
death sentence
nose bracelet (charm)
protect spirit (add protect)
clam spirit (add shell)
mimic titan
blow fire
thunder bracelet
dark whisper
bad bracelet
giga flare

Thoughts? I tried to make it as interesting as I could.

And for red mage I agree with Karsten's list and also suggest adding in regen. Having haste and slow on him might be too good though, plus red mage usually means black+white, so time magic is a little out of place.

vincent? what do you think?

For the squire, how about giving him one or two of the mediators abilities.  Perhaps, just the brave up and down aibilities, and call them "Battle Shout" and "Demoralize".

no more brave/faith tinkering, sorry.

Quote from: "karsten"vincent? what do you think?

Red Magic? I think no Time Magic because in FFT, the three characters that compose the Red Mage do not have Haste.

Minus that, your skillset looks good. Either way on Esuna, though I'd recommend against it if anything.


Blue Magic? I had a list but I dunno. Not every slot has to be filled:
Death Sentence
Bad Bracelet
Self Destruct
Odd Soundwave
^Skills that really should be there imo

Goblin Punch
Mimic Titan
Choco Esuna
Clam Spirit
Nose Bracelet
Level Blast
^Some that I remember having and that could work

Dark Whisper
Drain Touch
Blaster (a little tweaking so that it can be learned blue mage style)
Giga Flare?
Ultima (2)
^Some that are ¡overpowered? and used in FFT Sigma. We do need SOME late-learned good skills, but probably not that many.

Your skillset, karsten, looks a bit too centered on certain monsters.


Purple Magic? Wait... Charge. No need to give status effects. If anything, make Archer/longbows stronger/better.

okay, leaving elemental is fine.

Throw is based on 1) cost and 2) power.

so for red mage

Quotecure
cure 2
protect
shell
raise 1
esuna
fire/ice/bolt 1-2
poison

and for blue mage:

QuoteDeath Sentence
Bad Bracelet
Self Destruct
Odd Soundwave
Goblin Punch
Mimic Titan
Choco Esuna
Clam Spirit
Choco Cure
Choco Meteor
giga flare
Blow fire
aqua/wind soul
lick
magic spirit  
thunder breath
choco meteor

does it sound right?

Sounds ok but you've got Choco Meteor twice.

Aqua and Wind Soul are good choices I think. They're mostly ignored elements.

Is it possibl learning them Blue Mage style? ...

Quote from: "Sen"Is it possibl learning them Blue Mage style? ...

YES!  this is one of the main reasons for having a blue mage !

In fact, only Blue Mage style (yes, we'll put the list somewhere in-game).

Red Magic looks good, but Blue Magic I'd say Aqua Soul over Wind Soul and Magic Spirit or Clam Spirit (in favor of Magic Spirit). I'd recommend against having 3 skills from Chocobo and suggest removing Choco Cure. Should Blue Mage be able to heal? If you want to replace either of those skills with something I'd recommend Zombie Touch and Triple Thunder.

Once you remove that 2nd choco meteor, we're at the limit (16) so if you like the skillset the way it is, we can just (roughly) reorder the skills in order of when the skills become available to learn. Skills will need to be altered (about 2x pwr?) before Blue Magic is ready.

[Edit: karsten, did you mean Wind Soul and Aqua Soul? If so, then that's fine.]

Quote from: "VincentCraven"In fact, only Blue Mage style (yes, we'll put the list somewhere in-game).

Red Magic looks good, but Blue Magic I'd say Aqua Soul over Wind Soul and Magic Spirit or Clam Spirit (in favor of Magic Spirit). I'd recommend against having 3 skills from Chocobo and suggest removing Choco Cure. Should Blue Mage be able to heal? If you want to replace either of those skills with something I'd recommend Zombie Touch and Triple Thunder.

Once you remove that 2nd choco meteor, we're at the limit (16) so if you like the skillset the way it is, we can just (roughly) reorder the skills in order of when the skills become available to learn. Skills will need to be altered (about 2x pwr?) before Blue Magic is ready.

[Edit: karsten, did you mean Wind Soul and Aqua Soul? If so, then that's fine.]

yes i meant wind and aqua 8)

check

what?  

Check as in "I checked it off my list of things to do by adding it to the topic."

The topic already had replies so instead of deleting them I just added to your post.

I know some are against status effects for archer but I have a suggestion.  Since charge 20 is rarely used how about give it the chance to instant kill or inflict status:dead.  I'm also for a poison arrow. Poison is rarely used.

If you can manage to pull off a charge+20 it's usually an instant kill anyways, assuming you have a good bow of course, so unless we were to make it 100% death there wouldn't be much reason to change it. And I think it'd be good to have a poison inflicting bow or two, but I don't really care too much about a tech that inflicts it. I'd rather just spend the turn attacking.

I think that maybe the sword spell skill (dark sword, holy sword etc.) should be changed from being based on wp to ma, that way they don't always completely outclass that characters physical attack, and they could actually give them elemnts (stasis sword= ice etc)

You could change Agrias or Orlandu into a wizard and give them equip sword which would probably make it overpowered, besides it just seems like unnecessary work to me.
I was thinking: Stasis Sword- costs 20 mp
split punch- costs 15mp inflict don't move, y=2(from 3)
crush punch- inflict death sentence 25mp, y=3 (from 2, crush punch is supposed to be stronger and I thought add dead was too good)
lightning stab-30mp
holy explosion-40mp

night sword-10mp, and make sure Gaf gets dark sword for free too

shellbust stab-20mp
blastar punch-20mp
hellcry punch-30mp
icewolf bite-30mp

And for Orlandu's skill set:
stasis sword
split punch
shellbust stab
blastar punch
the 4 ruin skills- all 20mp, change magic ruin so it totally depletes the enemies' mp instead of just 1/2

And if you go with the mp idea for swordskills be sure to increase the mp of bosses like Wiegraf and Meliadoul.

Err... aren't those excessive costs? Basically you'd need 1 chemist per knight so he can keep using his skills...

It is at the beginning of the game, but later on when your characters are at lvl 50 and robes are available it balances out. Besides, I'd rather they be too expensive than not expensive enough.

Quote from: "Zodiac"Err... aren't those excessive costs? Basically you'd need 1 chemist per knight so he can keep using his skills...

I dont see the problem. Those are exactly the skills that deserve heavy restrictions. Not being able to use them without a tag-along source of MP is a good idea.

As long as no one but Gafgarion has access to Night Sword/Dark Sword (or rather, no one on the player's team), 10MP is fine.

The MP cost may be a bit too high. Considering that Stasis Sword hits more than one unit, I can see 20MP, but I think the single target skills are a bit too high.

How bout split punch at 15mp and crush punch at 25 since it's a bit stronger than stasis sword and can add death sentence?

You did keep the same status effects on Stasis Sword, Lightning Stab and Holy Explosion right? I don't think those need to go anywhere

Yeah unless I put something else beside it, it stayed the same.

I tried making a blue mage skill set and setting those monster's skill with learn on hit but after patching it was messed up and instead of turning them blank and must be learn on hit I can see the skills and in can be learned normally

You unchecked learn with jp right? That's the only thing I can think of that might be a problem.

And hen I tried going into a battle and I saw some of the skills are already learned and also when trying to learn the self destruct because there's no self destruct learned yet th bomb self destruct and nothing is learned.

I think it has something to do with my file, I'll start the game all over again to see if the problem with my file.

^
1) check learn Blue Mage style
2) make learn % 100 (if not already)
3) make sure it's the same skill and not a duplicate
4) can Summoner only learn Zodiac as a Summoner? If so, then Blue Mage can only learn Blue Magic as a Blue Mage.

I've already tried #1,2, and 4 and also removing learn with JP and setting the JP requirement 9999

it appears during formation that the skill are not learned yet but when I go to battle some are already there some are not and those skill that are no yet available when I got hit nothing happens

=(

I'll look into it.

I know now!!

because I'm using mediator its skillset must be talkskill so I tried changing the skills and then it worked.
I just used a different skillset and setting it to mediator which is why it didn't work.

Yeah, seems I've had/having the same problems with my classes, lol. Glad you figured it out!

About Monster Skills/Blue Mage skills they all look screwed up

for example using self destruct there's a sword swinging yet the character does not holt it and acts differently.

the only skill that looks good are thunder soul/etc. and choco cure.

you may have to create a new version of skills like self destruct
(ulmaguest would be a neat blue magic too, but u gotta create another of that too, u know the empty space below the  skill parasite? use those and assign the same effect to them, and give that same version to the monster, its the hand raising animation instead of a glitchy sword) true the monster might not call their special animation for them but they shouldnt look glitched either...

on top of that won't you need to change the formulas too? they probably arent nearly as effective used by humans if they have ma/pa based formulas

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but I think Steal Heart should still be able to work on an enemy of the same sex, but maybe at half accuracy.  Not just for political correctness reasons, but it's reasonable to think someone charismatic enough would be able to sway someone of the same sex with their charm.

Also, hi.

^ Too much trouble for so little reward. Besides, the -only able to charm opposite sex- effect is pretty unique.

i havent read over all the topics but there are very few wind attack spells, has anyone considered making "Silf" do damage equal to "Titan" and still give a slight chance of silence?

Quote from: "Zozma"i havent read over all the topics but there are very few wind attack spells, has anyone considered making "Silf" do damage equal to "Titan" and still give a slight chance of silence?

Holy crap, Zozma! Mind if I steal that idea from you?

hey thats why i threw it out there, why would you bother with a giant silence spell when you can do wind damage too?

Great idea. Who ever used the old Silf anyway?

Me ... lol. Hey, I never used Oracle, so Silf was my only way to Silence some mages. I use new Silf a whole lot more though. ^^

bringing more wind and earth.... even water(not ice) spells into the game would be great... thats why im someday hoping to create an effect for an ultimate water spell to go along with quake, melt and tornado. "Flood" all i want to do is take leviathan and remove the image and it would look like a sweet water spell...

Like 'Deluge' from Chrono Cross?

The only way I could conceive of poison ever being anything but a novelty is to extend the time limit. Make it so a target is poisoned until the status is removed by an outside source. I don't know if thats possible to do, but it would actually make poison useful, especially for wotg type challenges where some of your enemies have super high hp, like fighting elmdor and his stupid assassins that spam teleport 2 and go to the other side of the screen so you cant hit them.

interesting idea...

Blue mage's could have Bio 3 maybe