Hello, after getting tired of FFT WotL, i took a shot at FFT A2, which i actually like more, so, I thought of editing it to change some things and make it overall better.
Before that, however, i'd like to see whether or not it would garner some attention to it.
I already started editing the game with the editor tools, some highlights include MP starting at max and unique classes getting much better.
A question though, so far, i've only seen 3 tools for this game, Ability editor, Job editor and Equipment editor, are there more? These are already quite limited, but i can work with that.
Any info and ideas accepted
The good news is there's a spreadsheet floating around somewhere that has a LOT of FFTA2's data on it. If you know anything about hex editing, it would be extremely helpful.
The bad news, as you've noticed, is that there aren't many easy-mode tools for A2. The tool developers for the FFTA series are mostly interested in the GBA game. That probably seems odd since FFTA2 is in many ways "more advanced" but...I personally hate that the battles are so much more predictable. And they nerfed my lovely Assassin. And my Death-spamming Alchemist. It hurts, man. It hurts.
That's not to say tool development for FFTA2 will never happen. There has been on and off interest. It's just not something to hold your breath for.
Well, I gotta say I'm not very skilled in Hex editing... But I could certainly learn quickly, as a matter of fact, I did the MP thingie using HxD, based on something i saw laying around on this forum.
What would really be awesome is a formation editor like the one on the AiO, i could give the enemies the same game-breaking combos the players have, like a Paladin with Flair and Geomancy.
But for now i'll have to stick to A-Abilities, Equipment and Jobs. I made a small discovery though:
On the ability editor on Page 2, the one with the bunch of Unknows and stuff, on the Mid-Left group of boxes, the first box, that is labeled Unknown, actually indicates if said ability can be Magick Frenzied, for reference, it's the box below 'Reflectable/Magick Counter'
And, on the Lower-Left group, the 4th Unknown actually indicates if the ability can target empty tiles.
The main thing keeping me from bothering with modding A2 is the lack of AI. The only thing they do is move as close as possible and pick a random ability to use. There are no priorities to kill your low HP units or heal themselves. There's also no level scaling.
Quote from: ArcticPrism on October 26, 2014, 12:17:35 pm
There's also no level scaling.
Knew I forgot something in my list of complaints.
Yep, and considering this is a game where the main focus are quests, it kinda loses the meaning when after just a few you're already overleveled enough to just muscle your way through without much problem.
There IS level scale, only in certain fights (besides the random ones, there is the battle vs. Ewen, and few more iirc)
The terrible AI is something everyone agrees on (using magic hammer on my fighter instead of any mage unit :|...tisk tisk).
I too have been using the tools to edit my game a lot. Since I can't do anything about their AI, I uped their stats especially HP.
ex.
final boss has roughly 1000 hp per section in vanilla, now has 4000+
flans have their insane defense again
starting from full mp causes monsters to use their spells a lot more especially sprites
I know it just end up being a numbers game but still it's definitely an improvement over the original.
Indeed, or hitting their own allies with arrows due to not checking height parameters, Veis made me lose the final fight against Klesta because of that ._. and getting 2 critical hits in a row with double shot, she never gets those when she's attacking enemies though.
Does checking 'Already Mastered' on abilities also affect the enemies? if so, perhaps it would help give the CPU more tools to use
Yes, making Already Mastered on monster skills will give enemies the ability to use all their Monster Skills from the start. I do this in FFTA2 GG to great effect. :)
Quote from: FrozenDragon150 on October 30, 2014, 11:10:25 pm
Indeed, or hitting their own allies with arrows due to not checking height parameters
I'm just as derpy as the AI in this regard. I've hit the ground at a target's feet more times than I can count. I've even shot my own people with a gunner before. It's only amusing the first few times.
Then again I'll kill allies on purpose if I can kill 2+ enemies for the price of 1 ally, so I suppose they're ill-fated either way.
I see, well, maybe i should do that for all A-Abilities (save for those who are meant to be in a progressive style, as well as Heritor Abilities).
Btw, is it possible to modify unique characters' starting equipment? I can modify Luso's starting class, but i dunno where to look his equipment and base stats, as well as for Cid, Adelle and other uniques
Luso doesn't have a class all to his own, he starts out as a normal little soldier so he has the basic stats as any hume
As for the other "special" classes, if you're using the Job Editor you can find their classes a good bit down the list
Actually his stats arent normal, he has lower speed and higher attack.
I don't mean unique classes, but unique characters, as in, Adelle (as a character) starts out as a Thief, what I can't seem to find is how do I edit this, to make her start out as another class.
Oh i didn't realize, i just thought everyone's stats were based oh the class they are
And changing a starting class would more than likely be a Hex thing. Sounds as simple as changing point but what do i know lol i'm just saying what it sounds like
Yep, I actually found where Luso's starting class is stored, but I dunno about Cid and Adelle's, as well as starting equipment.
I'd definitely be willing to help out with a patch like this.
I think it's relevant to point out that Lennart left his FFTA2 notes here, for anyone who might have wanted to work on the game.
http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=9398.20
Welp, last time i looked, it was for the 'MP regeneration' and 'starting MP' adresses, i was going to download the files later, and now my data plan ran out ._. Bad move on my part. I guess i'll just have to wait it out :( oh well, just 15 days to go.
I suppose more research needs to be done on my part, i was experimenting with a datasheet i found in another website and managed to give Defenders the 'Cover' skill, which is a start, btw is it possible to give a skillset more skills while leaving the others instead of having to remove one to put the other in it's place? If so, then how many can i set?
Also, i found out how to edit all six starting characters' class and secundary skillset yay! Still no clue on Cid and Adelle, however, they really need to change their starting classes, not so much on adelle, but big time on Cid, he really get's weakened by having 20 levels as a Warrior.
Also - Part 2: Is there any way to 'flag' quests and make them unlock certain skills? If i ever find how to edit Adelle's starting class, i would like to get her to start out as a Heritor, but with no skills of course, she would still have not unlocked her Instinct skills, so giving her 'Steal (Sky pirate version)' would be nifty, and Lennart would be unlocked after completing the first 'Gifted one' event (when he fights adelle)
Also - Part 3: Is there a way to change Job requirements? (If such function is already on the Job Editor and i haven't seen it, then my astigm-whateverthingieonmyeyes must be getting worse :/) if so, i had and idea, about having more jobs unlocked at the beggining, each one being 'starter' jobs that serve to develop the character at first, that are used to unlock 'Advanced' jobs, the absolute best ones of a single race.
Here's an idea with hume jobs:
Starter
Fighter Jobs
-Soldier (Tank)
-Fighter (Attacker)
Stealth Jobs
-Thief (Close range, evasion-based)
-Archer (Long range, distance-based)
Mage Jobs
-White Mage (Support)
-Black Mage (Magic attacker)
Advanced Jobs
Fighter Jobs
-Paladin (Tank)
-Parivir (Attacker)
Stealth Jobs
-Ninja (Mixed attacker, evasion-based)
-Hunter (Long Range, Distance-based)
Mage Jobs
-Seer (Magickal Jack-of-all-trades with many options plus Recharge and Magick Frenzy)
-Illusionist (Fully offensive mage)
Quirk Job
-Blue Mage (monster abilities, debuffs, buffs, physical attacks)
Opinions?
1. Yes it is possible to give a skillset more skills while leaving the others through a process called "repointing" which moves the structures to a bigger area in the ROM to be edited. You'll have to read quite a few tutorials and experiment a bit to get from square one to repointing and editing tables comfortably. (Well semi-comfortably. There'll always be the chance that something glitches for seemingly no reason.)
2. It seems more likely that there's a small table with only the heritor skillset on it. I doubt they'd waste space creating a system for all 300+ missions when only ~10 actually use it. This edit would most likely require ASM knowledge.
3. Changing the way job unlocking works would probably require a huge ASM overhaul, unless you were just changing what missions unlock what jobs. The game isn't currently programmed to do what you want it to, which means you would essentially have to rebuild a small portion of it from scratch. Also you basically just described the job system for FFTA1, in which all jobs are unlockable from the start by using the job(s) that lead into them.
That's another thing about FFTA1 that's better~
Quote from: FrozenDragon150 on November 07, 2014, 07:20:12 pm
Also, i found out how to edit all six starting characters' class and secundary skillset yay! Still no clue on Cid and Adelle, however, they really need to change their starting classes, not so much on adelle, but big time on Cid, he really get's weakened by having 20 levels as a Warrior.
Every character's starting class can be changed pretty easily - I discovered an unknown field in one of Lennart's spreadsheets yesterday that controls this. In Cid's case, change the byte at 53D5C36 from 0E (Warrior) to a new Job ID, and do the same for Adelle - change 02 (Thief) to a new ID at 53D5C52.
You can actually do this for every special unit in the game, along with units recruited through the World Map and the Clan Mates mission I believe.
bcrobert
Yikes, too advanced for my blood XD
Is it really that hard to modify the Jobs A-Ability unlocking requirements? What were the devs thinking?! I mean, I figured it would be hard to change, say, the Fighter's unlocking requirement, since it requires to complete a quest in order to unlock, but i thought it would be easier to modify the other Job's requirements, like making a Black Mage not need any White Mage A-Abilities mastered to unlock, guess i was wrong :/
I suppose i could instead make her a Ninja upon recruitment and give her Thievery as a secundary, much simpler to do than tinkering with what unlocks which Heritor Skill, and hey, it is still a better class than the Thief.
Blue
Just what i was looking for, i used that data to find Frimelda, Hurdy, Vaan, Penelo and Al-Cid's starting classes and secundaries. *grins*
Now i can give Al-Cid a secundary Command, like the Fusilier's Gunmanship, after, of course, making the skills available to him (Good thing there are Equipment and Ability editors)
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thought earlier - Adelle joining as a Ninja, accopanied by a few mastered Steal abilities in her secondary skillset. But then again, if rebalancing is the goal here, Ninjas being a better class than Thieves (stat-wise at least) shouldn't really be that big of an issue anymore by the end of all of this.
Back on the subject of rebalancing, there's nothing we can do about the AI stupidity, but enemy jobs, equipment, level, and most importantly abilities for all missions can all currently be changed. I'm going to skim through it all for a while and see what big changes clearly need to be made.
Edit: Right off the bat, one of the changes that needs to be made is the ability for Moogles and Nu Mou to enter and act in water. Problem is, their sprites don't support this. I don't know - maybe remove the ability for everyone to enter water entirely? Everyone's Jump value could be increased by one to compensate. That's just a rough idea.
I just thought about 2 topics for a rebalance:
-MP should not regenerate normally, instead, it always starts at max every fight, this way you can use your spells from the beggining, but you'll need to keep an eye on it so you don't spend it all too quickly, while the MP Channeling priviledge would enable MP regeneration again.
There are some skills made to reduce the impact of losing your MP too quickly, the Arcanists Syphon skill normally absorbs mp and restores your HP, now it should absorb mp and restore mp too, Recharge should cost no mp to use. Later on, due to higher MP stat higher level mages have, you'll probably not have any MP problems. Plus, this kinda nerfs Blood Price, since it's only remaining advantage would be in the early-midgame where you'll mp would be fairly limited and with self-healing using elemental spells and robes you can use blood price spells pretty much forever, but later on you won't probably need this.
-Speed growths, seriously, what's up with this? Either you do the tedious speed resetting to get a point in speed or you change to a frail class like thief or ninja to get any common growths, or you remain a turtle forever.
What should be done then? I dunno XD maybe give all classes a 99% Growth in speed, so that Speed's impact on the game is lessened, and instead alter the base Speed of the classes, so everyone should be able to max, or near max, speed, only that they do it at different speeds (speeds, geddit?) I dunno, i think speed is way to important, so for the purposes of a rebalance it also needs to be balanced rite?
Ideas and opinions welcome :3
I agree with the part about MP completely.
Speed growth...that's going to be a little difficult. My recommendation would be to buff most of the slower classes a little (but not too much), and nerf the faster classes to no more than something like 85% at most. You can't really give everyone 99% - that would break the game even further than it already is if you think about it. Classes focused on speed would also lose a valuable reason to be used.
Stat growths really need to be paid attention to in general - making sure each class in each race has at least one stat advantage over another, for example. Of course, a "balanced" class for each race would also be nice.
This is can be seen as both a benefit and a drawback on the players side, but I personally like the idea of special characters joining at levels in single digits (e.g Montblanc joining at no more than LV5). This would permit the player to control their stat growth more if they wish to do so. The downside is that many players may not want to have to grind the characters.
I mostly said that about the Speed growths because both the player and the enemies would benefit from it, as far as i'm aware, enemies stats are determined on-the-spot when the battle begins, based on their level and Job, is this correct? If so, then enemies will always have a speed stat proportional to their level, as if they always gained a point in speed every level.
As for recruitment, is that possible to do? I would also like to limit the recruitment level. Once i can get to read Lennart's notes i'll try to figure something out XD
No, enemy stats are determined the same way they would be if you were to recruit a new unit. Stats are based on Level/Job, but they're also randomized, and this doesn't exclude Speed. You might just be imagining things :P
Both recruitable special and generic units have a Min/Max level they can be recruited at. Adelle has a minimum level of 9, and a max of 50, Montblanc has a minimum level of 45 and a max of 99, etc. Their levels are determined by the clan's average, of course.
Really? Oh, well, i could have sworn i had readed that somewhere, but, eh.
Guess that's back to the drawing board there XD
Btw, i just realized that there is no 'Nightfall' (ewen's class) in Lennart's editor, how weird, guess i'll have to retool that one manually and maybe give it another Action Command, Ninjutsu kind of sucks.
Also, input here guys, should Ultima skills be removed altogether? After all, if they're nerfed, it just wouldn't be Ultima, and if it is removed, then it's a big weapon on each race's arsenal gone.... Mmmm, i guess i should give a few tools more to the classes that lose it, unless they're strong to begin with.
Since starting with full MP with be a thing, you can just adjust their MP costs to something more appropriate. Maybe something in the 60~75 range.
I just don't want them to be spammed to hell and back until the battle's over, which kinda finished off the original's difficulty. Besides a higher MP cost, maybe they should be limited in range or something?
Also, Removal skills, like Parley and Oust, i'm sure i should remove them and give their respective jobs more useful skills, why? Because they don't really add up to much, after all, it is quite a waste of space, having a skill that fails almost always instead of a buff, or a AoE skill, or something more useful.
I agree with you on that. I wish that could be done with Steal abilities, but then the Thief job wouldn't be a Thief. There might be a way to remove that 50% maximum steal rate somewhere. And about Ultima, I guess Weapon Range could be changed to a strict range of 1, and a vertical difference of 0. So the target would have to be adjacent to the user, and at the same height.
Right, actually, there are 2 things that should probably be removed altogether, Enemy removal and Equipment breaking, these 2 are mostly just there to cover space and annoy the hell out of the player, respectively, after all, the turns you spend trying to convince the enemy to leave could be used to kick the crap out of it, and getting unique weapons broken is something that can seriously mess up a game. Steal: accesory is forgiven since it serves a clear purpose both on the enemy and the player, the enemies annoy the player and remove their accesories and benefits, meanwhile the player can use it to gain more accesories.
Actually, maybe the Ultima skills should get range based on the skill, Ultima Shot should be mid-range since, well, it IS a 'Shot'
Or maybe instead of that they should be Weapon-Specific, if possible, i think they are, since it appears on Lennart's editor, but i don't know the specific values for each weapon
No, currently they can be used with any weapon. Hence why broken things like a gunner using Ultima Sword or Assassins snipping with Ultima Masher exist.
Ultima Sword/Masher - Restricted to Bladed Weapons
Ultima Shot - Restricted to Bows? If so, this variant should be noticeably weaker and have a slightly higher cost due to the extended range.
Ultima Blow - I don't know what to do with this one right now.
Those are just some possibilities. I don't have time to think it all the way through right now.
Quote from: FrozenDragon150 on November 08, 2014, 04:57:16 pm
What should be done then? I dunno XD maybe give all classes a 99% Growth in speed, so that Speed's impact on the game is lessened, and instead alter the base Speed of the classes, so everyone should be able to max, or near max, speed, only that they do it at different speeds (speeds, geddit?) I dunno, i think speed is way to important, so for the purposes of a rebalance it also needs to be balanced rite?
Ideas and opinions welcome :3
Its not viable because you can simply recruit a low level ninja for the high base speed and train him as a paladin for the remaining stats.
Your idea would have been great if the base-speed of classes would change whenever you change classes just like the unarmed-weapon attack power.
- Doubleshot should be reverted back to the FFTA formula. It doesn't need an MP cost this way - it'd be more of a situational ability to ensure at least one hit on units with high evade.
- Parivir skills obviously need to deal normal weapon damage. They can keep their elementals and status inflicts, but light MP costs might need to be considered to avoid abuse.
- Soldier stat breaks should deal damage, or the Raptor's versions should have their damage removed. There's a serious balance issue there that might not be too hard to fix.
- Every class needs to have their status resilience lowered. Status spells and skills were always a waste of a turn; how often do they actually land with those >60% chances? From my experience, much less than the chances would lead me to believe.
Those are a few things I thought about overnight. There are many, many more issues that need to be addressed, but it makes sense to start with the major ones first.
Oh changing the ability requirements alone can be done. I thought you meant removing the mission requirements and giving the actual unlock a different mechanic or something.
Speed rebalance is easier than you might think. Just limit it. In one of my FFTA test hacks I changed the starting speeds to range between 111-118 and the speed growth to 1.1-1.8. The decreased range makes it so that speed simply becomes "who goes first" as opposed to "who gets multiple turns." I'm not opposed to the highest speed units getting occasional extra turns, but they should only get an extra turn after several full rounds of battle have elapsed. Whereas the 0.8-2.3 range had characters just flat out getting twice as many turns.
MP balance is tricky, but that's because MP systems are basically never balanced. Ever. They actually shouldn't exist. The closest thing you can get to "balance" is giving an incentive for using the weaker spells. Like higher damage in the long run per MP spent. Naturally MP needs to regenerate slowly (or not at all) for this incentive to matter though.
Quote from: Blue on November 09, 2014, 02:49:25 pm
- Every class needs to have their status resilience lowered.
I second this.
maybe check out the Green Mage skill 'Tranq'.
Quote from: bcrobert on November 10, 2014, 01:46:09 am
Speed rebalance is easier than you might think. Just limit it. In one of my FFTA test hacks I changed the starting speeds to range between 111-118 and the speed growth to 1.1-1.8. The decreased range makes it so that speed simply becomes "who goes first" as opposed to "who gets multiple turns." I'm not opposed to the highest speed units getting occasional extra turns, but they should only get an extra turn after several full rounds of battle have elapsed. Whereas the 0.8-2.3 range had characters just flat out getting twice as many turns.
Nice test. I like this, expect FFTA:DE to get a stat revision.
Do you know how to do it? I'd love to implement a Starter-Advanced-Quirk kind of class system, which should be easily done by simply adjusting the Jobs A-Ability unlocking requirements.
Starter classes, as the name implies, should be those you start out with, or directly unlock through a quest, without needing X number of Abilities learned from a certain Job. Advanced classes are those which have Ability requirements, and are generally better than the starter ones at their respective role. Example: The Soldier is the Tank of the Hume starter classes, Paladins are the Tank of the Advanced classes, so they have higher defenses and better equipment options and abilities, so, to unlock the paladin, you need X number of Soldier abilities mastered.
About Resilence, maybe they shouldn't need to be lowered, Status attacks can be made more accurate, there are different accuracy types for debuffs in the editor, so i could just set them to the default '1x Debuff'
Plus, abilities giving Accuracy Up should be made more widespread.
Well, I'll only be able to log in again in 5 days, my cell phone's data plan is running out as well (How crappy ._.)