Final Fantasy Hacktics

Conga line!

(http://i53.tinypic.com/jpue4i.png)

This spreadsheet works a lot like ALMA's: input values, press the button, out comes .xml for FFTorgASM.

If you do some FFTPatcher work, you can give these classes separate slots (e.g. Chemist A1 - A8, RSM1 - RSM3; Astrologist A9 - A16, RSM4 - RSM6) so that all they share is JP and job level. The lazy demo .ppf attached bothers to do this about half of the time.

These jobs should work like normal. They learn abilities; their skillsets become equippable secondaries; they gain JP and grant spillover JP; they have gender and job level requirements. They're only different in that they share JP and job level with their "host" jobs.

To-do:
- more types of requirements
- allow the AI to autolearn these abilities (currently it ignores RAD's existence)
- fix the status screen during battle
- monster job wheels

Known issues:
- If your squadmate can access a job but you can't, it doesn't show up at all, instead of being grayed out. This requires some painful coding and is low priority for now.
- Extra jobs don't show up in the extended status screen during battle yet (the one that resembles the Learn menu).
- Going past 15 added jobs, i.e. 32 available secondaries, causes crashes in the Secondary select menu

So... Wait. Is there currently a difference between RAD and RAD 2 right now?

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on April 12, 2011, 09:12:44 pm
So... Wait. Is there currently a difference between RAD and RAD 2 right now?

Just what's preloaded. RAD has three classes fully functional. RAD 2 has forty classes on the job wheel but ability learning is all wonky. These are demos, more or less; I'm mostly done with a spreadsheet that will let you easily set up your own jobs without manual table editing and automatically make them fully functional.

Ah, that makes sense.

Also, I'm glad that this hack makes things like this possible:
(http://i56.tinypic.com/2saibyq.png)
Just because it's funny.

Awesome.

Now if only there was spontaneously more room for more abilities in addition to all the other still non-player classes. Hell, if only there was a spontaneously more room in general....

*depressed sigh*

QuoteIf you do some FFTPatcher work, you can give these classes separate slots (e.g. Chemist A1 - A8, RSM1 - RSM3; Astrologist A9 - A16, RSM4 - RSM6) so that all they share is JP and job level. I haven't bothered for this demo, since that would require a .ppf.

So if you don't, you can have an extra class that has the same skillset, same JP pool, same job level, but different stats and equipment options? Or, better yet, if you do do some work, have an extra class sharing JP and jLvl, but has 1-2 skills more in their skillset, and different stats?
Effectively creating a higher tier of jobs, that build forth on the lesser tier job.

Pokey you are on a roll, this is incredible stuff! Sounds like this is very very close to have more usable jobs, extremely impressive.

Not really cheetah. The game has specific slots for learnt abilities in the world map/saves/battles, and increasing it or reconfiguring it would be extremely tedious. It is possible; I just don't know if there is any free space in there.

Here is a spreadsheet, use it to build your own wheel.

Quote from: TeaOr, better yet, if you do do some work, have an extra class sharing JP and jLvl, but has 1-2 skills more in their skillset, and different stats?

Yeah, I haven't thought it through much but there are some interesting ways to let the JP/level sharing work for you, rather than just putting up with it grudgingly:

- Add "Esquire", which requires Level 5 Squire and resembles Ramza's ubersquire class
- Go all-out Disgaea and add Warlock/Conjurer/Black Wizard, requiring Level 3/5/7 Black Mage
- Go all-out Ogre Battle and fork the job tree by gender
- Add "White Monk" and "Black Belt" in place of "Monk"; each has Spin Fist and Chakra, but White Monk has hats and Revive/Stigma/Aurabolt, while Black Belt has higher PA and Punch Rush/Dolphin Blow/Suplex

Quote from: XifanieThe game has specific slots for learnt abilities in the world map/saves/battles, and increasing it or reconfiguring it would be extremely tedious.

Yes, there is no chance I am adding distinct JP totals or learnt ability bytes to these jobs, that would be an epic headache. But sharing the learnt ability bytes works shockingly well - AFAIK there's no indication to the player what's going on beyond the merged JP/job level. As The Damned notes, # of total abilities is the real constraint.

Now, you mentioned before that you have it set up so that Princess is female only, doesn't have job requirements, and shares jp and such with Priest. But if I'm reading this spreadsheet right, which I can only assume I'm not, Princess by default would require Priest 2, Dancer 1. I assume that the Dancer 1 is to force the class to be available to females only, since from what I can tell, all female characters technically have dancer 1, even if they haven't technically unlocked it yet.

I'm slightly curious as to why you set the default requirements for jobs 4-20 to Bard 1/Dancer 1, since I imagine that would make the jobs inaccessible to anyone, seeing as no character has both bard and dancer (since that would require being both male and female, and Tactics never really dealt with transgender characters...).

I guess my final question is what the blocks of "01" next to the jobs in the "Shares with Class Lock" table are for; is that something required by the spreadsheet when it goes to generate the code for orgASM?

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on April 13, 2011, 09:31:34 pmI assume that the Dancer 1 is to force the class to be available to females only, since from what I can tell, all female characters technically have dancer 1, even if they haven't technically unlocked it yet.

Yes. (The Princess just got changed to Priest 2 to demonstrate that gender and job level requirements aren't mutually exclusive - you are reading it correctly.)

Bard 1 Dancer 1 is just how you dummy out a job you aren't using, yeah.

QuoteI imagine that would make the jobs inaccessible to anyone, seeing as no character has both bard and dancer

Yes.

QuoteI guess my final question is what the blocks of "01" next to the jobs in the "Shares with Class Lock" table are for; is that something required by the spreadsheet when it goes to generate the code for orgASM?

Right now it's unused. I put it in because in the future I will want to add a flag or two to control who can access which classes.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/5euxqs.png)

moreworkthanitlookslike.png

(making some progress on generics; lack of space in UNIT.BIN is gonna be a damper, though)

EDIT: okay, got formation portraits working! now for battle sprites and the pre-battle screen... talk about a pain, but it's doable and getting done.

Out of boredom, I had patched an iso with RAD 2 from earlier, and I've noticed something somewhat odd; it seems that if you give a special job to a generic, you can still send them on propositions, but they don't seem to get the jp reward like they're supposed to. Any ideas why that is?

Edit: Also, it seems that after you unlock a certain amount of jobs, once you try and change your secondary skillset, the game just freezes. For example, I've got a generic who's unlocked: Squire, Chemist, Knight, Archer, Monk, Priest, Wizard, Thief, Mediator, Oracle, Geomancer, Lancer, Samurai, Ninja, Astrologist, Dark Knight, Princess, Holy Swordsman, High Priest, Dragoner, Holy Priest, Bishop, Cleric, Engineer, Dark Knight (again), Cardinal, Heaven Knight, Hell Knight (again), Arc Knight, Delita's Sis, Arc Duke, Holy Knight, and Temple Knight. I can change jobs, items, and R/S/M, but if I try and change my secondary skillset, pSX just crashes, with the console giving the error code translate_address: illegal physical address 062226a8. I can only assume that the problem is something along the lines of the list of secondary skillsets being too long for that particular menu; which actually doesn't make much sense, given that all of the other menus seem to just be able to expand, but I can't think of any other reason why this would be happening. Also, this error doesn't seem to show up when switching the secondary skillsets of other characters who haven't yet that many jobs.

It's an unpatched odd end I didn't even think of - thanks for pointing that out, I'll see about it once the bulk of things is done.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 17, 2011, 10:29:43 pm
It's an unpatched odd end I didn't even think of - thanks for pointing that out, I'll see about it once the bulk of things is done.

Just trying to be helpful :D

Okay, here is the proof-of-concept hack for generics. While it references the Chemist, Priest, and Thief sprites, the tables are there and these could easily be replaced with any other sprites, including and especially custom sprites. Unlike previously, the table editing is non-trivial, so you probably want to wait until the spreadsheet is finished later this week - there's no real reason to download this yet. Hopefully this holds, 'cause I'm about sick of sprites for a while! (EDIT: wait... if the pre-battle screen is loading UNIT.BIN sprites, then that means... seriously?! there goes another 0x1E0 in BATTLE.BIN. okay still have to fix one thing, none of you will notice though)

I'll get to fixing the rest of the bugs soon, especially that skillset crash.

So mind my retardation, but this is basically job wheel expansion that piggybacks two smaller Jobs' A/R/S/M/JP together?

If it weren't for the JP thing, that'd be pretty awesome.  As it is, still pretty awesome, but I dunno how useful it is unless you're specifically going for intertied jobs or multiple base class special generics.  I'm assuming these Jobs share their host's prereqs and can't be used as prereqs themselves, though.

As for Bard/Dancer, a male is treated as having MASTERED level Dancer, and a female MASTERED level Bard.  If you set them both to be prereqs for the same job, the job will open as normal during gameplay, meaning the player will never know they were using a bastardized Bard/Dancer.  If set as prereqs for different Jobs, males will have the Dancer-required Jobs open immediately once they meet all other prereqs, vice-verse for females and Bard-required Jobs.  This was an issue Celdia encountered in CCP when making her Cook/Homemaker base class, and this was how it always panned out, if memory serves.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on April 23, 2011, 12:08:39 pm
So mind my retardation, but this is basically job wheel expansion that piggybacks two smaller Jobs' A/R/S/M/JP together?

Yes - 16 action ability spaces, 6 R/S/M spaces, and merged JP/job level for two (or three or seven) jobs.

Quote
I'm assuming these Jobs share their host's prereqs and can't be used as prereqs themselves, though.

They have their own prereqs (custom routine). They can't be used explicitly as prereqs for other jobs because they share JP and job level with another job - earning Alchemist JP counts toward Chemist job level and Chemist prerequisite level. Of course, if you had a split job tree where only one of these jobs was accessible, a Chemist Level 2 requirement would effectively be an Alchemist Level 2 requirement.

Quote
As for Bard/Dancer, a male is treated as having MASTERED level Dancer, and a female MASTERED level Bard.  If you set them both to be prereqs for the same job, the job will open as normal during gameplay, meaning the player will never know they were using a bastardized Bard/Dancer.  If set as prereqs for different Jobs, males will have the Dancer-required Jobs open immediately once they meet all other prereqs, vice-verse for females and Bard-required Jobs.  This was an issue Celdia encountered in CCP when making her Cook/Homemaker base class, and this was how it always panned out, if memory serves.

That's very useful to know, thanks! Makes splitting the class tree by sex a bit harder. Maybe I should hack it out sometime.

The RAD prerequisites are a custom routine that read from the job level in unit data. Here is how they work:

- All male units default to level 1 in all classes except Dancer, which is level 0.
- All female units default to level 1 in all classes except Bard, which is level 0.
- So setting a RAD prereq of level 1 Dancer is the same as adding "female only" and setting a RAD prereq of level 1 Dancer/Bard permanently locks the class.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 12:30:45 pm
Yes - 16 action ability spaces, 6 R/S/M spaces, and merged job level for two (or three or seven) jobs.

They have their own prereqs (custom routine). They can't be used explicitly as prereqs for other jobs because they share JP and job level with another job - earning Alchemist JP counts toward Chemist job level and Chemist prerequisite level. Of course, if you had a split job tree where only one of these jobs was accessible, a Chemist Level 2 requirement would effectively be an Alchemist Level 2 requirement.

Interesting.  I'm still having trouble filling what Jobs exist in Vanilla, but I'm a picky douchebag.  Still interesting for making split-job trees.  A long time ago I wanted to make an FFT hack that shanghai'd the engine for a giant robot turn-based strategy game, and this would've been perfect for that, like you don't even know.  As is, I may actually end up using this for my Power Rangers Edition now that I think about it more because it helps me give all the Rangers two unique Jobs without compromising the Job Wheel.

At the very least, this is a roundabout way of creating a Mime Fix while actually letting you keep Mime too, so I guess it does have a bit of general utility.  Do you think making a Job "share" with Calculator and giving that Job all the A/R/S/M space would allow me to dodge the slowdown that the Math Skill set gives to AoE skills?  If so, that's at least two immediate and practical uses for RAD for everybody.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 12:30:45 pmThat's very useful to know, thanks! Makes splitting the class tree by sex a bit harder. Maybe I should hack it out sometime.

Yeah, if that's to your fancy, never been a fan of the sex-based tree but I know a lot of people are.  Also, males/females can technically access the opposing Bard/Dancer classes, since using a "know everything" cheat and telling a male to know all the skills in Dancer (eg) allows you to use Dancer R/S/M.  This means you could likely hack out the gender requirement for them entirely and steal some of whatever bit of RAD helps the sprite issue to give them proper male/female sprite set options, if you'd want to try going in that direction as well.  I have the funny feeling people would be happy to see both.

Then again, you could just do what I said above for Calculator and give all their space to a non-Gender bound, RAD-enabled pair of Jobs and that'd be sort of a workaround... but I don't know how this handles which sprites to assign to which Job, and there's such restrictive Sprite space I'd prefer to waste as little of it as possible.  Then again, I guess I could load enemy Specials into the Bard slot or something and just force spritesets avoid wasting space, since no one will ever be able to tell the difference.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 12:30:45 pmThe RAD prerequisites are a custom routine that read from the job level in unit data. Here is how they work:

- All male units default to level 1 in all classes except Dancer, which is level 0.
- All female units default to level 1 in all classes except Bard, which is level 0.
- So setting a RAD prereq of level 1 Dancer is the same as adding "female only" and setting a RAD prereq of level 1 Dancer/Bard permanently locks the class.

Does this affect Vanilla classes as well, or is this only for the prereqs for RAD-enabled classes?  If so, you've already hacked out your proper sex tree split here and could just repackage this portion of RAD... if not, just extend this to generic jobs and you're good too.

That's a clever way of going about it, though.


All in all, I need to say this looks pretty good once you get all the kinks worked out for Generics.  Some really important and immediately practical applications for people not looking to do something offbeat with a lot of that wtfwhyok potential the original iteration of ALMA started with for people wanting to make some rather heavily altered patches.  Looks like it'll definitely be very nice.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on April 23, 2011, 01:01:35 pm
At the very least, this is a roundabout way of creating a Mime Fix while actually letting you keep Mime too, so I guess it does have a bit of general utility.

I should sorrowfully point out that splitting Bard for females, Dancer for males, and Mime for anybody is not currently recommended because the game hardcodes these like crazy in several other ways (e.g. male JP gain/spillover for Dancer slot is zeroed).

Quote
Do you think making a Job "share" with Calculator and giving that Job all the A/R/S/M space would allow me to dodge the slowdown that the Math Skill set gives to AoE skills?

Probably, but I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's a skillset 15 thing? You might actually be able to fiddle with the tables to just change the default Calculator skill set to "2F" or something and have it learn properly without messing with a new job.

QuoteThis means you could likely hack out the gender requirement for them entirely and steal some of whatever bit of RAD helps the sprite issue to give them proper male/female sprite set options, if you'd want to try going in that direction as well.  I have the funny feeling people would be happy to see both.

Yes, this is a bit complicated. You can certainly create a RAD female-only Bard and RAD male-only Dancer with duplicate Sing and Dance skillsets but the JP/job level slot is troublesome. I'm not sure about the best and most compact way to do this yet.

QuoteI don't know how this handles which sprites to assign to which Job, and there's such restrictive Sprite space I'd prefer to waste as little of it as possible.

This lets you tell the game exactly which:
- UNIT.BIN sprites you want for the Formation and pre-battle screen (up to and including slicing Serpentarius into two usable sprites) (why the heck does Serpentarius have a UNIT.BIN sprite anyway?)
- WLDFACE.BIN portraits you want for the Formation and pre-battle screen (with the constraint that Male and Female portraits are directly adjacent)
- battle sprites you want (again, with the constraint that male and female sprites are directly adjacent)

The real pain is UNIT.BIN, which has AFAIK seven unused human sprites and two double-size unused monster sprites (Serpentarius and Archaic Demon). Enough for five male/female classes.

Quote
Does this affect Vanilla classes as well, or is this only for the prereqs for RAD-enabled classes?

This describes RAD prerequisites only. The in-game prereqs still work as you describe but that should be hackable.

Quote
wtfwhyok potential the original iteration of ALMA started with

Yeah, as with that hack it's a lot of raw capability that needs to be refined into usable form.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
I should sorrowfully point out that splitting Bard for females, Dancer for males, and Mime for anybody is not currently recommended because the game hardcodes these like crazy in several other ways (e.g. male JP gain/spillover for Dancer slot is zeroed).

So you'd need a hack to enable Spillover JP... annoying, though I'm unsure how difficult.  Mime's JP related stuff isn't hardcoded, so I can't imagine any of its hardcoding carrying over to the RAD Job(s) based off it.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
Probably, but I'm not sure. I'm guessing it's a skillset 15 thing? You might actually be able to fiddle with the tables to just change the default Calculator skill set to "2F" or something and have it learn properly without messing with a new job.

I could possibly do that too, I've not tested much with it.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
Yes, this is a bit complicated. You can certainly create a RAD female-only Bard and RAD male-only Dancer with duplicate Sing and Dance skillsets but the JP/job level slot is troublesome. I'm not sure about the best and most compact way to do this yet.

I'd imagine you could just force the skillset to be the actual Sing/Dance.  The only problem honestly seems to be the Spillover JP and the fact they need to be next to each other for the Sprites to work.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
This lets you tell the game exactly which:
- UNIT.BIN sprites you want for the Formation and pre-battle screen (up to and including slicing Serpentarius into two usable sprites) (why the heck does Serpentarius have a UNIT.BIN sprite anyway?)
- WLDFACE.BIN portraits you want for the Formation and pre-battle screen (with the constraint that Male and Female portraits are directly adjacent)
- battle sprites you want (again, with the constraint that male and female sprites are directly adjacent)

The real pain is UNIT.BIN, which has AFAIK seven unused human sprites and two double-size unused monster sprites (Serpentarius and Archaic Demon). Enough for five male/female classes.

Well, there are characters like Gafgarion that use two Sprites.  If you hack up their Sprites that show up on Formation Screen, you get a lot more.  Still, good to know there's enough for 3-5 sets of human jobs before doing that though.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
This describes RAD prerequisites only. The in-game prereqs still work as you describe but that should be hackable.

Forcing everything to use RAD prerequisites seems like it'd be the easiest way to force Bard/Dancer to play more friendlylike with male/female branching jobs.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 23, 2011, 01:41:54 pm
Yeah, as with that hack it's a lot of raw capability that needs to be refined into usable form.

Yeah.  This one just seems a lot closer to be being at that point already.

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on April 17, 2011, 08:05:56 pmI can only assume that the problem is something along the lines of the list of secondary skillsets being too long for that particular menu

Yeah, it's overwriting a jump address in the temp memory. The limit for now seems to be 15 additional jobs on a character with all base jobs unlocked. I was going to find a way to bar certain primary skillsets from the secondary menu anyway, so this adds a bit more priority.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on April 23, 2011, 09:43:11 pm
So you'd need a hack to enable Spillover JP... annoying, though I'm unsure how difficult.

That was one example... just that wouldn't be hard but there are a lot of annoying things. Just flipping through other code I've seen a lot of redundant hardcoding. I do realize people would like to see it though so I'll take some notes.

Mime's main issue is no learned abilities bytes, so the JP total doesn't tie to anything.

Quote
Well, there are characters like Gafgarion that use two Sprites.  If you hack up their Sprites that show up on Formation Screen, you get a lot more.  Still, good to know there's enough for 3-5 sets of human jobs before doing that though.

Unfortunately I think you're talking about Gaffy's battle sprites (.SPR); he has one slot in UNIT.BIN which is where we're tightest. Also, it turns out I can't slice things as well as I thought in the pre-battle screen, so we're back to 7 human sprites and 2 monster sprites. I guess if you can't have two more generic classes, you might as well have one more generic class with an awesome, monster-sized sprite.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 24, 2011, 08:15:57 pmThat was one example... just that wouldn't be hard but there are a lot of annoying things. Just flipping through other code I've seen a lot of redundant hardcoding. I do realize people would like to see it though so I'll take some notes.

Redundant hardcoding?  Squaresoft?  I think you're lying!

Good to hear.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 24, 2011, 08:15:57 pmMime's main issue is no learned abilities bytes, so the JP total doesn't tie to anything.

Oh.  I see.  That could be an issue.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 24, 2011, 08:15:57 pmUnfortunately I think you're talking about Gaffy's battle sprites (.SPR); he has one slot in UNIT.BIN which is where we're tightest. Also, it turns out I can't slice things as well as I thought in the pre-battle screen, so we're back to 7 human sprites and 2 monster sprites. I guess if you can't have two more generic classes, you might as well have one more generic class with an awesome, monster-sized sprite.

Haha, monster sized sprite.  Could be useful if you make one of the generic classes like a guy in a walker machine or something.

And I know he only has one entry in UNIT.BIN, but you only need that if he still joins as Guest.  You can disable this, use all of Guest Gafgarion's info as half of a new class, and keep his extra battle sprite for use everywhere if you need the room.

Though, 7 human sprites total is enough to "fix" Bard, Dancer, Mime, and have 3 sprites left over for something else once everything's panned out, potentially, so I can't say I'm upset by only having that much room.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on April 24, 2011, 10:26:27 pm
Haha, monster sized sprite.  Could be useful if you make one of the generic classes like a guy in a walker machine or something.

Chung chung...
Chung chung...
Magitek Armor!!!!

Quote
And I know he only has one entry in UNIT.BIN, but you only need that if he still joins as Guest.  You can disable this, use all of Guest Gafgarion's info as half of a new class, and keep his extra battle sprite for use everywhere if you need the room.

Yeah, that's true, it's not like giving the player the ability to strip him bare before the Falls is an essential part of every patch.

Still rigging the spreadsheet but there should be some interesting side effects of the patch, like monster-size generic sprites. I guess I can live with fewer "formation outfits" and more "battle outfits".

On that note, I'll probably piggyback on the sprite work I did to rig a limited Special Character Job Sprite hack that works in battle (EDIT: well, that was easy! it's done and will be in the spreadsheet).  No real point to doing one in UNIT.BIN due to lack of space but the BATTLE.BIN slice is the easiest part anyway! Try to think of it as Ramza wearing his comfiest outfit outside of battle...

So could I implement my sub-class idea with RAD?  Wouldn't giving each unit it's own individual job tree require a lot more space?  What about keeping track of abilities learned?  AFAIK, the game only keeps track of Squire/Base Job through Mime.  What about requirements?  Could you force palette switches on sprites, so, if I change from a summoner to a sorcerer, my sprite stays the same but the palette changes?

I tried using the spreadsheet to make my own job wheel, but I'm getting an error. Is it an error on my end, or yours?

(http://i56.tinypic.com/33v1d1z.jpg)

Okay this is grossly inadequate and the sprite selection is not up to snuff (i.e. is a little broken), but I'm releasing it and working that out later.

Of note:
- You can assign battle sprites for up to 4 special classes.
- There is a column that restricts classes to a single person (e.g. Ramza, Rafa, generic male).
- You can try reassigning the generic skillsets; using something else instead of Jump or Math Skill and changing the skillset in FFTPatcher too and crossing your fingers. Maybe it will work and skip the Generic Skillset Hack? You can also have Ninja and Samurai share JP and job level, while using the Ninja's JP and learnt ability slot for another set of classes. What a fun game it will be, testing things 90% likely to be broken!

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on April 27, 2011, 06:08:00 pm
I tried using the spreadsheet to make my own job wheel, but I'm getting an error. Is it an error on my end, or yours?

OpenOffice doesn't play well with the button. Just unhide the XML tab, copy-paste the entire contents into a text editor, and save as .xml.

Quote from: pokeytax on April 27, 2011, 09:06:08 pmYou can also have Ninja and Samurai share JP and job level, while using the Ninja's JP and learnt ability slot for another set of classes. What a fun game it will be, testing things 90% likely to be broken!

This is far more useful than you realize, and can be utilized as a large part of using RAD as a workaround to "fix" Bard/Dancer/Mime/etc.  I should plan out how to do this more in-depth, honestly, since this probably fixes a lot of the problems making a proper set of workarounds would've had to begin with.

I hadn't thought of such a simple idea myself, nice one.

Quote from: Pickle Girl Fanboy on April 27, 2011, 01:03:05 pm
So could I implement my sub-class idea with RAD?  Wouldn't giving each unit it's own individual job tree require a lot more space?  What about keeping track of abilities learned?  AFAIK, the game only keeps track of Squire/Base Job through Mime.  What about requirements?  Could you force palette switches on sprites, so, if I change from a summoner to a sorcerer, my sprite stays the same but the palette changes?

Short answer no, long answer sorta.

I'm going to extend ALMA's functionality a bit and clean up this hack. That will help some.

Possibly when/if RAD enables advanced class restrictions, you could have "key" abilities that open up some classes and close others, but there's little point because FFT doesn't have the job space for something so involved. You should start thinking about what you can do in ALMA and ARH.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on April 27, 2011, 09:59:52 pm
This is far more useful than you realize

Well, someone should probably check that it actually works first!

Okay so question. I haven't actually fiddled with the spreadsheet yet, but you mentioned earlier that you could do a disgaea like job tier system. Is there a way to have a second tier job completely replace the old job? Say that second tier squire requires level three knight. Once level three knight is achieved, will the second tier squire replace the first tier, or will they then both show up in the job wheel/ learn menu?

They'd both still be there. I imagine it would be rather difficult to force the game to re-write a character's job wheel after meeting certain prerequisites rather than simply expanding it. Assuming the job wheel works like how I think it does, which it very well might not, I believe it would also be pretty difficult to keep those changes isolated to specific characters, rather than, say, a single character achieving knight 3, and then squire 1 is overwritten by squire 2 for all characters.

Quote from: RandMuadDib on May 10, 2011, 06:45:44 pm
Is there a way to have a second tier job completely replace the old job? Say that second tier squire requires level three knight. Once level three knight is achieved, will the second tier squire replace the first tier, or will they then both show up in the job wheel/ learn menu?

The code is currently a job wheel expansion, not a job wheel remodel, so getting rid of the existing Squire is tricky. You could possibly finagle something with a future version of the hack where current Priest is replaced by a RAD duplicate of Priest, which disappears when you hit job level 4 and is replaced by White Wizard. I just didn't think of it because it's inimical to my design philosophy, but I can see why you would want it.

Quote from: pokeytax on May 10, 2011, 10:21:22 pm
The code is currently a job wheel expansion, not a job wheel remodel, so getting rid of the existing Squire is tricky. You could possibly finagle something with a future version of the hack where current Priest is replaced by a RAD duplicate of Priest, which disappears when you hit job level 4 and is replaced by White Wizard. I just didn't think of it because it's inimical to my design philosophy, but I can see why you would want it.

Definitely try to get this kind of functionality going, imo.

It's not something I personally need, but I can definitely see the value of it.  Hell, I know there used to be an FF1 mod of FFT floating around here somewhere, even.

Yeah. That was me. I could definitely see the usefulness of such functionality.

Can't you basicly give monsters also diffrent jobs?

Yes, monster jobs should be doable (in a separate but related hack). But we already have a monster jobwheel, breeding, so it's not red alert priority.

An evolution tree for twelve different chocobo colors would be fun I have to admit.

This is a half-update which should resolve most sprite issues. It took this long because I hate sprite issues a lot.

I am thinking about how to proceed. Doing plenty of cool stuff with the player job wheel (e.g. story progression, shuffling basic jobs) isn't hard, but now that this is actually usable and not just a neat gimmick, the battle status screen has to be addressed somehow, and something has to be done for the AI, which presently builds units as though RAD classes do not exist. Obviously you can hardcode enemies to be whatever you want but most patches will want a functional random generation system, I think. Ideas and feature requests welcome.

The working random generation system definitely sounds like something most people would want to use in conjunction with the expanded job wheel, since hardcoding is kind of a pain.

I haven't seen anything mentioned about it for a while, but have you made the option to choose which original job the "new" jobs share jp with fully functional yet? Last I heard, you had assigned (by default) Astrologer to Chemist, Princess to Priest, and Dark Knight to Thief, while everything else shared with Squire.

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on June 04, 2011, 12:18:47 am
I haven't seen anything mentioned about it for a while, but have you made the option to choose which original job the "new" jobs share jp with fully functional yet?

Use the "Shares With" column (column Y).

Instead of different colors of chocobo, you could go with different roles, and include monster gender.  Like, the starting class could be foal, and then the male and female are (someone who knows about horses correct me) mustang and... female?  Anyways, the different mounts play different roles in battle.  Again, someone who knows about different kinds of horse breeds, please share.  Warhorse.

Completely random, and unrelated to hacking.

A female horse is a mare. From nightmare.

And the male would be a stud, right?

My power has been in and out so here is a new version while it's up. It may be broken because I can't test it now, and it definitely needs more variables to play with, but I'll fix that later. (Yup, broken! Fine now though.)

Unfortunately, the unit data it's reading is a mutant hybrid of SCUS data and battle data so I have to check variables before I plug them in, but there should be enough to do a lot.

New:
- base classes are written through RAD now and can be reordered/given nonstandard requirements
- story progression requirements (thanks Glain) and job level requirements which can be used to erase old jobs

Notes:
- requirements of '00' are ignored
- all requirements must be met (there are no "OR" requirements, just "AND")
- all units have at least job level 1 in all classes except Dancer for males/Bard for females; disabled classes require Bard and Dancer
- Squire is a placeholder and its requirements should not be fiddled with (Squire/base class is written before RAD does its stuff)
- getting tricky and trying to open up Dancer/Bard to both sexes is still not recommended
- a male chocobo is a cock and a female chocobo is a hen

I'm glad you renamed the thread to RAD: Horsechat...

Also, I should hopefully be able to do some testing on RAD 3 this weekend, so we'll see how things go.

Wow, you've got this looking quite good.

Question:  I have a White Mage, and it "upgrades" to a White Wizard, deleting the old White Mage.  Does this currently support having the learned skills of the White Mage carry over to the White Wizard, or am I shit out of luck and forced to restart?  Related - If a Job is erased by RAD (Same scenario, White Mage to White Wizard), can I still access the old White Mage's skillset?  What about any of the White Mage's unique R/S/M?  Or are those "forgotten" properly?  (This latter question would apply to things I do NOT want carrying over, of course.)

Design White Mage and White Wizard with the following skillsets:

White Mage: White Magic (0A)
White Wizard: White Magic (2A)

White Magic (0A)
Cure
Cure 2
_______
Raise
_______
Poisona
_______

Regenerator
__________
Magic Defend Up

White Magic: (2A)
_______
Cure 2
Cure 3
Raise
Raise 2
_______
Esuna

__________
Abandon
Magic Defend Up

where the blanks indicate blanks in FFTPatcher.

Tell RAD that these both "Share with Priest", and have them phase in and out at the same time (e.g. White Mage requires Priest Job Level < 5, White Wizard requires Priest 5).

This should act as desired: White Wizards will retain Cure 2/Raise if learned, only the proper White Magic will be available and learnable, one of Regenerator or Abandon will be known, and the blanks in FFTPatcher aren't displayed so it's transparent to the player. The only hitches are that you might have trouble forcing the player out of White Mage and the "weak" White Magic secondary, which they can stubbornly refuse to change, although they can't learn new old stuff; and I'm uncertain about RSM properly fading. I know males can equip Jump +3 if that ability is cheated to 'learned' in Dancer and this seems similar. However, I'd be surprised if that worked with RAD jobs, so maybe make the baby job a RAD job and the adult job a base job? Wait, hopefully you can actually use learned RSM with RAD jobs! Definitely need to do more testing on this.

(EDIT: Hm, looks like you can't use RAD job (i.e. jobs 21-40) RSM you've learned. That's definitely a bug to fix. It doesn't seem insurmountable, though, and I can fix the properly fading issue at the same time: just need to change "check learned stuff for 20 base jobs" to "check learned stuff for all active jobs".)

So, question; how are you supposed to use the last 2 columns (AO & AP)?

Also, in the list of portraits, you seem to be missing 08 (bearded priest), you go directly from Human Reis to Bald Priest... But you're not missing bearded priest in the sprite list.

As for RSM, I've been wondering about that for a while. I had noticed it when I started using RAD 2 in a personal patch, but then when I learned RSM abilities from RAD jobs, they didn't show up in my list of equipable abilities.

EDIT: It seems that the xml code generated by RAD 3.xls is not recognized by FFTorgASM... After orgASM didn't seem to add the hack from a new xml file, I took the new code and overwrote an old instance of a RAD xml file, and then orgASM didn't recognize that either. I had added more RAD jobs, and changed their sprites, but I didn't mess with any of the original jobs, nor did I do anything with columns AL-AP).

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on June 10, 2011, 09:46:04 pm
So, question; how are you supposed to use the last 2 columns (AO & AP)?

There's a hidden variable that tracks your progress through the game's story. You can set values here to unlock or lock jobs at the end of chapters or after key events, as in previous Final Fantasy job systems.

I imagine someone has documented what story progression byte values match what parts in the story somewhere, but I don't know where.

Quote
Also, in the list of portraits, you seem to be missing 08 (bearded priest), you go directly from Human Reis to Bald Priest... But you're not missing bearded priest in the sprite list.

I'll look into it! There may not be a matching portrait, though.

Quote
EDIT: It seems that the xml code generated by RAD 3.xls is not recognized by FFTorgASM...

Is this the very latest RAD 3.xls? You'll see I updated it.
(If you see

<Location file="WORLD.BIN" offset="694F0">

near the end of the .xml, not

<Location file="WORLD_WORLD_BIN" offset="694F0">

then you have a bad file).

I've got the newer one then, because it's "WORLD_WORLD_BIN"

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on June 10, 2011, 11:45:50 pm
I've got the newer one then, because it's "WORLD_WORLD_BIN"

Weird. You don't see "RAD 3: Job Wheel Expansion"? Can you post the .xml file?

Apparently I'm not allowed to upload xml files, and I'm also apparently too lazy to compress it, so I just converted it to a txt file.

I renamed "RAD 3: Job Wheel Expansion" to "Custom RAD 3" (I tend to have more than one RAD hack in my folder at any given time, so I rename them to know which is which). I also had made another one (with different jobs and such, but I apparently made it wrong, since I forgot to assign some requirements to one of the jobs >_>), which DOES show up in orgASM, so it's kind of strange.

It's the Teta sprite, thanks for the catch. I uploaded a new version, I'll have to go through and make sure all the sprites work fine.

Not a problem; glad to help. At least I can do something useful :D

R/S/M should appear now for RAD jobs. They don't phase out, but you can solve that two ways:
1) just don't have R/S/M that's meant to vanish (e.g. let White Wizards keep Regenerator)
2) use ALMA 4's scripting to nuke the old abilities (e.g. if Regenerator is ever equipped, de-equip Regenerator, forcibly forget Regenerator)

If you're planning on jobs that open and close frequently, and that have R/S/M that need to stay learned, but can't stay available... well, maybe we'll get there! For now I'm just happy having R/S/M working.

Quote from: pokeytax on June 11, 2011, 06:13:31 pm2) use ALMA 4's scripting to nuke the old abilities (e.g. if Regenerator is ever equipped, de-equip Regenerator, forcibly forget Regenerator)

This option works better when we can actually use ALMA 4, my friend. 

/douchemode.

I suppose it's good to see most of the nuances are working and will be covered between the two programs.

By story progression, you mean integer 0x006E correct (from this list: http://ffhacktics.com/instructions.php?id=B0)

I assume so but I want to be sure.

Great job pokeytax, this mod is making me so "happy"!
^_^

Quote from: Pride on July 06, 2011, 09:28:41 am
By story progression, you mean integer 0x006E correct (from this list: http://ffhacktics.com/instructions.php?id=B0)

I assume so but I want to be sure.

Reasonable assumption! But it's wrong - I cribbed the code from Glain who was using 6F, I didn't know any better. Thanks for the catch. I changed it to 6E by default, and added an option to select any variable from that list, for people who know what they're doing.

Quote from: Pride on July 06, 2011, 09:28:41 am
By story progression, you mean integer 0x006E correct (from this list: http://ffhacktics.com/instructions.php?id=B0)

I assume so but I want to be sure.

:shock:

I hadn't thought to look for a list like that within the documentation for those commands. Would have helped! Instead I did a bunch of detective work to get 0x6F, but that's for shop availability, which was more what I was doing with the gear level. Is 0x6E more granular?

Edit: Seems that it is. Variable 0x6E goes all the way up to 0x35 = 53, whereas variable 0x6F only goes up to 0x10 = 16.

0x006E basically increases by 1 after each story battle or after a series of events (like the final event at the end of a chapter.)

i truly apologise for this stupid post, but I have no idea how to use this.
i'm brand new to fft hacking so i know nothing. i have been lurking the site for a week or two now and have just been playing the mods (fft rebirth and fft 1.13) though this seems more to my liking
from what i understand this lets you get access to multiple jobs (as in the special jobs like arc knight, white knight, holy swordsman, etc.) - am i correct?
i know this is a noob question but how exactly do i go about getting this to work? it really strikes my interest
i'd appreciate any help i can get, thank you.

You'll need the FFTPatcher suite, which you can get from FFH's downloads page, and the RAD 3 spreadsheet file, which you can get from this thread. The spreadsheet itself is fairly simple to use; things get more complicated when you're looking in to giving jobs requirements beyond just have this many levels in this other job, however. You can use FFTPatcher as a reference to determine the hex value of the jobs you want access to, which will then go in the spreadsheet. Modifying the job level-based requirements of the job you want to add is self-explanatory. If you want the class to be male-only, make sure the job requires 1 level of bard, and leave dancer blank. Conversely, if you want the job to be female-only, it needs to require 1 level of dancer, and no bard. If you don't want the job to be accessed at all, just make the job require 1 level of both bard and dancer. If it's going to be accessible regardless of gender, then it shouldn't require bard or dancer.

When determining what sprites the job should use, it might be helpful to have Shishi's and/or FFTEVGRP open so that you know what the sprites look like. Other than that, you can just do some experimenting to find the various nuances of the spreadsheet and what it allows.

Once you're all done filling out the spreadsheet, you should open the "XML" tab and copy everything within that tab into notepad, and then save the file (in .xml format) in the same folder as FFTorgASM (which comes in the FFTPatcher suite). You should now be able to apply your RAD 3 hack to your FFT iso through FFTorgASM.

does does this mean that once i do all that i'll have access to all the jobs on my fft iso?
i'm just interested in playing with characters that have access to special jobs that for example only npcs/special charactres have access to, or am i going about the wrong place for that?
i appreciate your help though i'm still a bit in the dark - just want to know if this is the correct place to do that

Quote from: Mudvaynei truly apologise for this stupid post, but I have no idea how to use this.

There are no stupid posts, only stupid bugs.

Doing what Magius said will give generics access to other jobs on your ISO, just like normal jobs. The base version comes preloaded with Princess/Dark Knight/Astrologist.

These lists show what codes correspond to what jobs (http://ffhacktics.com/wiki/Jobs_List) and skillsets (http://ffhacktics.com/wiki/Skillsets) (or you can take Magius's good suggestion of using FFTPatcher and see what job goes with what skillset). You enter these in columns C and D. So if you wanted to have Zalbag's Arc Knight class, you would enter 08 in column C and 4B in column D.

The skill learning will be a bit wonky (this hack forces them to "share" slots with standard jobs, so learning an ability for one job will learn it for the other), and the battle status screen won't update, but it should do what you want. Let us know if you get stuck and we'll walk you through it.

Quote from: Mudvayne on July 20, 2011, 05:12:23 pm
does does this mean that once i do all that i'll have access to all the jobs on my fft iso?
i'm just interested in playing with characters that have access to special jobs that for example only npcs/special charactres have access to, or am i going about the wrong place for that?
i appreciate your help though i'm still a bit in the dark - just want to know if this is the correct place to do that

The last time I checked, there was a sort of "upper limit" on the amount of jobs you can add to the job wheel before your game starts freezing. I don't know if anything has been done about that yet, however. But yes, if you want generic characters to be able to access jobs that are normally reserved for npc's or special characters without sacrificing the original jobs, this is the hack you need. Like pokeytax said, the spreadsheet comes already configured to add the jobs Princess (Ovelia), Dark Knight (Gafgarion), and Astrologist (Olan) to the job wheel. Meaning, of course, that once you apply this hack, you can give the job to anybody who meets the job's requirements, including generics, Ramza, and other special characters. Obviously, the point of the spreadsheet is to expand the hack beyond just Princess/Dark Knight/Astrologist, and you could, for example, add Lune Knight (Dycedarg) or Arc Knight (Zalbag) to you job arsenal.

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on July 20, 2011, 06:34:14 pm
The last time I checked, there was a sort of "upper limit" on the amount of jobs you can add to the job wheel before your game starts freezing. I don't know if anything has been done about that yet, however.

It's 15. I'm probably just going to find a way to make certain skillsets primary-only to get around this, because it's triggered by exceeding 32 equippable secondaries.

maybe i'm doing something incorrectly but i downloaded the files needed and followed your directioned but after i patch my iso nothing changes, it goes back to how it was previously? none of the new jobs etc are currently in my game
any ideas what i could be doing wrong? ;\

Can you post your .xls and .xml files? You may need to zip the latter.

hmm the only xml file i have is the rad3 xml? obviously i am doing something wrong here, i just would like to add a few jobs into my game so i can play as a holy/arc/lune/divine/heaven knight etc if possible which it seems like i can't figure out for the life of me
being the first time i've attempted a hack probably isn't helping me situation either heh

Yeah, that's what I need to see, that file. The one you created by copying the XML tab and paste it into a new file or pressing the button.

Do you have the Analysis Toolpak for Excel or Analysis Add-In for OpenOffice? Check Tools > Addins. You need one of these because it fiddles with hex values.

it's just the basic file that i downloaded off the first page on this post, and then i downloaded the rest off the main page off the download section on this site :? :oops:

no help?

is it possible to add elmdor, weigraf, dycdarg (sp), zalbag, izlude (just their jobs, not necessarily them, just their jobs not sprites), and possibly a few more into your party?
i see it's possible using this hack it's just that i've never usd a hack before and am unaware how to go about doing that seeing as i've never used a hack

adding special sprites etc isn't what i'm interested in going about i just would like to be able to add theirl jobs in the job wheel slot so they are accesssable to change into if the generics (or special characters) meet the reqs

any ideas please? imo it would make the game MUCH more intertaining

I'm in the middle of debugging a different hack - you've kinda chosen a difficult way to get your feet wet so I don't know quite where to start.

But your polite sorrow has melted my cold heart. I would like to have a more robust demo of this hack anyway, so I'm going to do a basic .ppf with a bunch of jobs and some basic FFTPatcher work to make RAD behave better.

was that directed at me?
i'm just unsure on how to add the special jobs that i'm interested in to my iso file so i can play as those jobs - i'm just unsure how to go about doing that since i've never hacked fft before

i was messing with it yesterday and am completely lost on how to add it to my current fft iso, i just want to add a few jobs on my game to make it more fun, i think it'd be a lot more fun playing with holy/arc/lune/divine/heaven knight etc

I made a patch with most of the special jobs available to generics, since this thread should have a demo anyway. Most base jobs will unlock a special job at job level 5. Some skill learning will be a little weird but it should work okay.

hmm i followed all the directioned exactly yet none of the special jobs are available to me? what could i be doing wrong? ;\
though i do appreciate all your help

Did you try patching a vanilla (unpatched) iso with the WotLOL.ppf file that pokeytax posted (using PPF-O-Matic, available from the downloads page), and then level some jobs up to level 5 to unlock the special jobs?

Also, when you said that you patched your iso, and nothing happened, did you make sure to apply the RAD 3 hack to your iso through FFTorgASM by checking the box next to RAD 3, clicking Patch ISO... and selecting the iso you want to patch? Do keep in mind that the special jobs won't show up in your job wheel until you unlock them. Like pokeytax says in his first post of the thread, if a character doesn't meet the requirements for the job, that job won't show up anywhere for that character. Once you meet the requirements, the job will show up in the job wheel, but before that, it doesn't show up all greyed out like it does when one character has unlocked a job but another one hasn't.

so does that mean in order to get this to work i have to start a new save file?
i wouldn't be able to apply the patch and then load a presaved file and have the jobs unlocked?

It should work if it is actually a save file from a virtual memory card (.mcr, .gme, etc.)... But it will not work if it's a save state. I'm not entirely certain what causes this, because you'd think that it would have to load the data from the modified iso every time you make a change to your characters, or even more frequently than that, but it does not. Are you certain that your characters are meeting all of the requirements of the jobs you want to unlock? Keep in mind that it is not possible to have a level in both bard and dancer (at least, not with the way that pokeytax coded his hack), and the majority of extra jobs in the RAD 3 spreadsheet have a requirement of 1 in both of them by default for that specific purpose. If you didn't remove the required level of bard and/or dancer, the job will never appear.

i feel dumb haha i've followed all the directions on here perfectly even deleted the bard/dancer requirement in order for the job to be accessable but to no avail..
i don't even know what i'm doing wrong anymore so it's hard to ask for help

[post your .xml and .xls files[/size]

It's hard to diagnose your issue without a concrete example.

The patch should be simple enough to work with any existing save file, though.

i apologise for being such an idiot and i even feel like i'm adding the wrong files here but it's worth a shot -


also your help is MORE than appreciated

Quote from: Mudvayne on July 22, 2011, 08:20:56 pm
i apologise for being such an idiot and i even feel like i'm adding the wrong files here but it's worth a shot -


also your help is MORE than appreciated

also i think i was only able to upload one of the two files
when i tried to upload the other file (of the type that was not supported i couldn't)
so i did my best and added em to a zip file to go from there

What program are you using to paste the XML into? It's saved as a .qpw. It should just be boring old Notepad or another bare-bones text editor. I don't see anything about your .xls that should break anything.

Here's the sample .xml I used for my patch, if you want to put into your FFTPatcher directory and try patching it.

I don't see anything in the Job Wheel tab that should break anything, but I saw a bunch of cells in the Sprites tab that just ssay "04040404" that I don't remember being there in other .xls files that I've seen... Unless I just hadn't noticed them before? Also, when I look at the xml tab, there are a bunch of cells that just say "#N/A", with an error message that says "A value is not available to the formula or function." And yes, I do have the Analysis Toolpak with Excel.

Quote from: MagiusRerecros on July 23, 2011, 12:46:14 am
Also, when I look at the xml tab, there are a bunch of cells that just say "#N/A", with an error message that says "A value is not available to the formula or function." And yes, I do have the Analysis Toolpak with Excel.

This is because the file was opened in OpenOffice(?) and converted to use ISERR instead of ISERROR somehow, which isn't recompatible with Excel. But there's a big red blotch in the jobs table hex which can't be helping. What program are you using to open the spreadsheet? Excel, LibreOffice Calc, OpenOffice Calc?

I'm using Excel.

i do appreciate your help, fellas. i got it working :)


i unlocked a lot of jobs now, though it makes the game extremely easy using it

i got  my characters to where i wanted and then tried to play it on a different fft iso (not just the regular - like 1.13 or fft rebirth) but when i try to start a battle with those charactrs that's where i run into even more problems
ex - i had a character as assasin and in the formation screen his sprite showed up as lede (sp - sorry, the female assassin) and when i went to use her in battle she showed up as weigraf haha
i was also unable to use any of her abilities

i feel as if i'm just out of luck here unless i just play on a regular version of fft but then the game is so easy it's not even worth playing ;\
any ideas

its a general rule to never hack an already hacked iso. using this on a game thats already been patched (1.3, rebirth, etc) its bound to screw up the game.

Quote from: pokeytax on July 20, 2011, 06:47:44 pm
It's 15. I'm probably just going to find a way to make certain skillsets primary-only to get around this, because it's triggered by exceeding 32 equippable secondaries.

Wouldn't that mean the upper limit is only 34 for any particular unit then assuming we count Mime, Mr. Pokeytax?

If you count Bard and Dancer as two separate jobs, the theoretical limit would need to be adjusted to in the realm of 65-67 since males/females could have two completely separate job trees.  :P

Being able to make more Mime-like Jobs would be... interesting regardless, though, even if Primary Only doesn't end up fixing the Job Limit issue.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 24, 2011, 07:10:07 am
Wouldn't that mean the upper limit is only 34 for any particular unit then assuming we count Mime, Mr. Pokeytax?

Basic Skill - Math Skill = 17
Sing/Dance = 1
(minus current Primary) = 1

Of course, as you say, this is a cap on the number of jobs with equippable secondaries available at one time, not the total number.

Quote from: pokeytax on July 24, 2011, 09:19:06 am
Basic Skill - Math Skill = 17
Sing/Dance = 1
(minus current Primary) = 1

Of course, as you say, this is a cap on the number of jobs with equippable secondaries available at one time, not the total number.

1 Primary Job
1 Mime
32 Equippable Secondaries
=
34 Jobs.

Unless my math escapes me.  Y'know, that and how hex loves multiples of 16 and such.  Lest I'm misinterpreting your use of 35 or otherwise being stupid.

Quote from: RavenOfRazgriz on July 24, 2011, 09:28:10 am
1 Primary Job
1 Mime
32 Equippable Secondaries
=
34 Jobs.

Unless my math escapes me.  Y'know, that and how hex loves multiples of 16 and such.  Lest I'm misinterpreting your use of 35 or otherwise being stupid.

Ohhhh. Yeah, true, no unit has Bard and Dancer at once. That's... that's... pedantic.

Quote from: RandMuadDib on July 24, 2011, 02:38:12 am
its a general rule to never hack an already hacked iso. using this on a game thats already been patched (1.3, rebirth, etc) its bound to screw up the game.

i see, makes sense


thanks to everyone who helped me, it's much appreciated  ;)

Quote from: pokeytax on July 24, 2011, 10:07:42 am
Ohhhh. Yeah, true, no unit has Bard and Dancer at once. That's... that's... pedantic.

You haven't begun to see pedantic yet, good sir.

Pedantic: ostentatious in one's learning; overly concerned with minute details or formalisms, especially in teaching.

So, I'm a little foggy on how this works and I have a few questions. First though, let me see if I understand this right

1. The way I understand it, this patch can be used to create extra jobs that have a variety of requirements to unlock.
2. These classes share JP and Job Level with one of the 17 standard jobs on the job wheel.
3. Skill slots are shared. Meaning having skill slot A1 purchased in one job makes it automatically learned in another.
4. Bard, Dancer, and Mime should never be shared.

Is it possible to add mastery in a specific job to the list of unlock requirements? A class that requires master Wizard and Master Priest mage. It seems to me that requiring a RAD job to be mastered in It's shared job would force all of it's skills to be pre-learned. This is useful for jobs like the Red Mage which have different combinations of other classes abilities.

What if you made a Knight and shared it with the Squire? What happens if you then make Samurai share with the Knight? Do the Samurai and Squire become indirectly linked thus sharing Job Level and JP or does the game get mad at you and crash?

You're pretty much right.

Mastery (as in the "Mastered!" flag and star) is a little wonky with RAD. Although you could have the job require FF for Wizard A1/Wizard A2/Priest A1, you might as well just set a high job level requirement and use one of the skillsets that autolearns in battle.

If you make Knight Share Squire and Samurai Share Knight, Knight and Squire will be linked and Samurai will sit in Knight's spot (this won't have any visible effect).

A few questions, good sir.
Could you explain columns AL, AM & AN?
And If I understand correctly any job that shares with Mime will be able to track JP, but won't be able to learn skills, right?
Also, if I have a job share with Bard/Dancer then they won't show up for females/males respectively, correct?

Quote from: Vanya on October 01, 2011, 05:30:15 am
Could you explain columns AL, AM & AN?

These let you restrict jobs to certain people (e.g. "Identity Less Than 04" means Ramza only) or require a job level lower than X (so White Mage can be phased out for White Wizard). The boxes at the top set the condition and you can set a value for each job.

Quote
And If I understand correctly any job that shares with Mime will be able to track JP, but won't be able to learn skills, right? Also, if I have a job share with Bard/Dancer then they won't show up for females/males respectively, correct?

Using Bard/Dancer/Mime for job shares is sadly not supported (unless the class in question is male-only or female-only, or is actually 5D Mime). The game hardcodes obstinately around this.

To make a class female-only or male-only, have it require Dancer 1 or Bard 1.

Hello...Im newbie here and this is my first post.

I found Your hack,and I love idea...But can u tell what program i must use to add Your hack for orginal FFT.ISO(Iry E have FFTPatcher and ttry convert in Excel xls to xml) but all failed.?Im just to girl...and my modding skills=0.Or that hack is only for self editing?

Copy all the text on the XML tab into a text editor (e.g. Notepad) and save that file as an .xml file in your FFTPatcher directory.
Run the program "FFTorgASM.exe" and click the RAD box, then "Patch ISO", then find your ISO and click Save.

I did everything with Your instructions and implement .xml format using FFTorgASM...but now i cant change for any class and see just I pick in game.

Quote from: Baribal on October 10, 2011, 01:01:03 am
I did everything with Your instructions and implement .xml format using FFTorgASM...but now i cant change for any class and see just I pick in game.

Post the .xml and/or .xls file you are using (you may need to zip the .xml to attach it to your post).

OK...

Your job table is not properly formatted as hex. I'm not sure why this is. What spreadsheet program are you using, and what text editor?

If you are using Excel, you can try pressing the 'Export to .XML' button to create the XML file in the same directory automatically, since that seems to be the trouble step.

I have question...Is that any reson why u can't put this file here?

Only format i could export for pdf.I have Win 7 with Opack

When i open xls in notepad i can only save in .txt.I tried everything:/

You want to open Notepad and Excel (or Notepad and LibreOffice). Select the 'XML' tab and press Ctrl-A, then Ctrl-C to copy the entire tab. Then select Notepad and press Ctrl-V to paste everything into that and Save As "RAD 3.xml", Save As Type "All Files".

I can attach an .xml file but it won't have the edits you make. There is a .ppf in the OP which opens most special jobs to generics.

Ok its my last post here...Can You check file of stupid blonde(me) last time...

Your .xls file is okay. You just need to copy the sheet and save it as .xml correctly. Maybe I need to do the RAD/ALMA video tutorials sometime...

That wouldn't be such a bad idea. An extensive read me wouldn't hurt either.

Is it possible to create RAD jobs that only Rad, Alicia, and Lavian can unlock individually, effectively special characters without compromising their generic status, ability to change sprites, and their ability to take propositions?

You have to find some unique quality to them and modify RAD to read from that. I dunno if they can be given unit IDs, or not?

Because RAD is stuck reading the inconvenient formation screen unit data instead of the well documented and verbose battle screen unit data, it's harder for me to figure out how to add parameters, but several are still there to add.

Quote from: pokeytax on November 04, 2011, 07:26:00 am
You have to find some unique quality to them and modify RAD to read from that. I dunno if they can be given unit IDs, or not?

Because RAD is stuck reading the inconvenient formation screen unit data instead of the well documented and verbose battle screen unit data, it's harder for me to figure out how to add parameters, but several are still there to add.

Any unit can be given a UnitID.  I'm pretty sure Rad, Alicia, and Lavian actually already HAVE unique UnitIDs despite being Generics in all forms, like they intended to do something with them then decided not to.

So as far as the Formation Screen goes, any unit can have a unique UnitID that's not bought from the Soldier Office if you want it to, so that alone is probably enough to give anyone "special" parameters. 

Hey Pokeytax, I've been trying to get this to work for quite awhile and with limited success. I wind up getting either no sprite (just a shadow) or a blotchy sprite, or awhile back I was getting different sprites than I input. I downloaded the latest version just to be sure. I've also tried using both excel 2003 and openoffice 3.2.1. Does Rad work with these versions? Attached is the .xls edits I made, a .xml output from the output button, and just to make sure i'm not crazy, the formation sprite I'm trying to achieve. Right now its a generic female samurai in place of beowulf for no real reason...

I have the job being referenced set to 38 I believe... I've tried all the ones between about 37-3B. Any help would be appreciated but if you don't get to it for awhile no biggie. Thanks

FYI, Mime may cause bugs as a job share, but that isn't causing the problem.

It doesn't seem to like those job numbers. I'm not sure why... they seem low enough. I haven't tried it with all job numbers, mostly just those below 0x30.

Hey, Poketax, I'm curious about a use for this:
(From http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=7936.msg160992#new)

Quote from: Durbs on November 24, 2011, 11:29:18 am
I like this idea, but not necessarily for the entire main set. Is there a way that we can get him to be able to switch to a second class?

Actually, that brings up some interesting ideas... what if each of them (Ramza included) had 3-4 job classes that they could switch between? We'd probably have to eliminate the current system of generics to do this and make a series of enemy-only classes, but I kinda like the idea.

Thoughts?

Quote from: Eternal248 on November 24, 2011, 11:30:45 am
I thought about that a while ago, but I'd have no idea how to go about it except with maybe RAD magic.

Can this be done (giving special characters each their own 3-4 seperate jobs to choose from)?

Quote from: Durbs on November 24, 2011, 12:48:53 pm
Can this be done (giving special characters each their own 3-4 seperate jobs to choose from)?

Yes - set column AL or AM or AN to "IDENTITY EQUAL TO". Identity is a character's base job. You can't give everybody an extra 4 jobs, but you can give everyone one extra job, or 4-5 people 4 extra jobs.

Quote from: pokeytax on November 28, 2011, 08:11:28 pm
Yes - set column AL or AM or AN to "IDENTITY EQUAL TO". Identity is a character's base job. You can't give everybody an extra 4 jobs, but you can give everyone one extra job, or 4-5 people 4 extra jobs.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you!

I'm not quite understanding how to use this so I apologize if my question seems noobish, but this is what I would like to do:

I have 4 characters in my mod that need to start with 1 Job (a different one for each), once the level gets to 5 on that skillset they would unlock a second job and once that job was level 7 they would unlock their third and final job

All other units would remain the same as normal, (besides the fact that their are only 9 generic classes in my mod)

From what i read above it seems like this is definitely possible but after messing with the spreadsheet for a bit i honestly have no idea how to use it. Any help in understanding how to make this work would be greatly appreciated  :mrgreen:

Here are two screenshots that show where I would start.

(http://i39.tinypic.com/hvrwur.png)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/sdk1vt.png)

This setup does the following:

- disables Samurai/Ninja (assuming these are some of the unneeded non-generic jobs)
- gives specials 04, 05, 06, 07 access to extra jobs when their base job hits 5 and 7

So you would make Link's base job 04, and he would unlock jobs 15 and 16.

Pokeytax! You are awesome man. I totally get it now! Thanx you very much

 Pokeytax, 2 questions about your awesome hack:

- What is the use ''Idenity EQUAL TO''?
- Have you thought about creating a new version of the hack?
In your current version of the hack there are some bugs, like the appearance of a wrong sprite in a RAD job in the setup screen for a fight, or when a unit with RAD job when speak uses the Ramza portrait.

- "Identity" is the base job of a character. You can use this to limit jobs to certain special characters, or to generics. For example, "Identity Equal To" 0D creates an job only accessible by Orlandu.

- I would like to revisit RAD, ALMA, and my other slightly broken hacks, yeah. I am currently working on an involved project but I do plan to come back. If I've told you I would update something and then didn't, I'm sorry! My intentions were good but the scope of what I'm working on expanded. But, what I'm working on will hopefully appeal to 10% or so of you (even if you wish I'd stuck to FFT).

Hoping to see more integers added for unlocking jobs in the future! So many things to do with only one =p

I want to create a job (assassin) that only can unlock by unit 14. This is my Speadsheet:
But the problem is that the job is unlocked for all units. What's the wrong?

I'll try it in a new RAD 3 putting INDETITY EQUAL TO 14 in Princess, Dark Knight and Astrologist, and I patch a clean ISO, and the jobs are unlock by all units. Identity EQUAL TO didn't work.

How do I install this? It's an xls (*.xls) file. I need to add the RAD 3 35 Jobs patch.

you need to have either openoffice of Microsoft office, or something else capaible of reading the files, after you make your edits you copy everything from the 3rd tab (IIRC)
into a notepad and save it as (whatever).xml

After you do this you can patch it to your .iso/bin/img or whatever you have, using FFTorgASM

I had an idea the other day. I've merged the bard and dancer skills into all into skillset. While Dancer and Bard are still separate jobs they share skillset 16. Essentially Freeing up skillset 17. What can I do with it? Can I make a RAD Job that shares only its JP and Job Level with Wizard or something but with its own fully working skillset?

Pokey, trying to learn how to work RAD 3 through trial and error. I was wondering if you could share the raw Job Wheel page data you used to generate your ppf demo?

For background, I'm running an interactive Let's Play type thing with user-submitted character builds, and am hoping to avoid special characters entirely. I wanted a way to open up some of the NPC-only skill lists to characters who had Mastered (alternatively just reached a high level in) one of the generic jobs, but I need an example to dissect before I can do that.

Also, where's a good place to find the Hex values for different jobs? I'm still rather new to this modding thing.

Question about custom jobs: do I have to use the values of existing classes to get working sprites? I used FFTpatcher to build a couple new classes from the empty 3A and 3B values. They seem to function properly, portraits and battle sprites portray correctly, but the UNIT.BIN sprites don't appear at all on the job wheel, formation, or pre-battle screens. When I put an existing special class value in I can get any UNIT.BIN sprite I choose to display, its only the previously blank values that don't work. Is this impossible to fix? I want to change as little as possible of the existing data (which I know will be tough with limited space). I guess I'm just thrown off by the fact that everything else works except the UNIT.BIN sprites.

EXACTLY the same issue as the above, it seems that this problem exists with new classes unfortunately.

Does anyone know a class in the game below ID 30 that does not appear in a battle? I don't want to see an NPC with my new class, basically.

Unfortunately, I am also unable to get the Identity restriction to work with RAD. I will post screenshots later but I have set the "IDENTITY EQUAL TO" field for a particular class to 04 which should restrict it to Ramza in Ch4.

However, everyone can access the class.

I am also using Microsoft Excel so no issues there.

Hello
Can I do to increase the level of the Knight to 5, and he could become a dark knight Gavgarion using techniques and equipment have already learned a simple knight?  :roll:

Yes, you can.

You need to set it so the Dark Knight class has a 5 in the Knight block. Lastly, in the "Shares with" column set that to Knight.

If you mean you want the new Dark Knight's skillset to also include the skills of the regular Knight then you will need to make a new version of the Dark Knight + new Skillset to include all of those skills, then repeat the steps above.

Quote from: Aqueous on August 17, 2012, 03:20:45 pm
Yes, you can.

You need to set it so the Dark Knight class has a 5 in the Knight block. Lastly, in the "Shares with" column set that to Knight.

If you mean you want the new Dark Knight's skillset to also include the skills of the regular Knight then you will need to make a new version of the Dark Knight + new Skillset to include all of those skills, then repeat the steps above.

As I understand it, I can not add new sprites of jobs, because there is no place and will have to use the ones that are?
P.S. Where can I read about stats (atributes) of jobs? (HP Growth, HP Multiplier etc...)

I figured this all out a year or maybe two ago and I meant to post it then, but life got in the way. Since then I've forgotten it and had to relearn it. Anyway as far as I can tell, here is what is broken with RAD. When you select a formation sprite value, it is going to choose the formation sprite before it instead. If you patch it more than once, all of your RAD jobs battle sprites will become Chapter 1 Ramzas. So as a work around, when you choose a formation sprite choose the one would normally come after it. For example I want Chapter 4 Ramza as my formation sprite so I'm going to choose Delita Chapter 1.

So far this is the only bug I've actually encountered. Has anybody else encountered anything different? Will somebody confirm my findings? Will somebody fix this spreadsheet, because even though it's probably a stupid easy fix that should have been done years ago!? I'd do it but I don't know how to use excel that well.

If this is the only thing wrong with this spreadsheet, we should be ashamed of ourselves for not fixing it and using it a long time ago, I include myself in this category as well.

Shishi's numbers are off by one.

This is true. It's not important whether or not Pokeytax made the mistake or Shishi made the mistake. The point is that this tool seems to work pretty well but no one uses it because of a small and very fixable/workaroundable bug.

Actually i think people don't use it because it can be confusing to learn. Plus a lot of people just edit vanilla jobs. I used it for a while and never had that issue really.

Hi Guys,

I know this thread hasn't been posted in for awhile but it's relevant to the tool:

Is there any way to add additional conditions in here? There's only 3 to play with but I'd like alot more: I want to be able to place conditions on a few jobs that another job's level is below a certain amount.

Thanks in advance.

interesting thought... However, pokeytax is seldom seen around here anymore unfortunately. I may try to clean these tools up once I graduate in the summer, but don't hold your breath :(

It may be a more attainable feat to make a new ASM hack to do what you want to do. Although daunting at first, it only takes some persistence to learn, and we have a large amount of info about the game code on the wiki and tools to help. You could also request it in the ASM requests thread, but there are very few active ASM'ers atm.

That's a shame :(

Thanks for the reply Choto, to be honest I've tried looking at some of the ASM hacking tutorials because it would be nice to be able to just do it myself. However, I must admit I was quite lost the last time I looked. I'm familiar with hex editing so applying ASM hacks (and checking they applied correctly) hasn't ever been a problem but some of the tutorials have gaps in them that prevent me from following - at least the one on the site. Makes me dizzy!

I'll give it another try in the mean time. The only thing I'm not sure about is that this seems to be adding new functionality to the game rather than simply changing things (like Formula hacks) so if I add more conditions doesn't that mean it'll end up overwriting existing code potentially necessary for the game to work?

My plan was to make it so many of the jobs can "evolve" into stronger versions once mastered, with access to the more powerful abilities (and some new ones) and many with a passive effect. That way there'd be incentive to master jobs and it'd be a good way of keeping the initial jobs more competitive with jobs later down the line.

Don't worry, I was quite lost when I first started reading them too. It's the type of thing where the more times you read it or the more supplemental information you get, the more it all makes sense.

Anything you're confused about you can always post a question in the help forums too even if it's just ASM learning. I enjoy teaching and so I have no issues helping people out in that area.

Now in regards to overwriting code: Luckily, the FFT ISO has a big section of Kanji characters that are unused in the english version. We refer to this as the "Kanji Table" or "Free space" because it is just that - free space. So when we want to add in whatever code we want, we put our code in this section and just jump to it from the vanilla routine.

As I'm thinking about it... the hack you want to do may be a bit involved since you have to do quite a bit: enable the job on the job wheel, account for male/female, set the corresponding pre-battle formation sprite and portrait, set the job level requirements... Probably not the best one to embark on for your first hack. But the better you get, the bigger hacks you can make

Thanks Choto, I've made a thread.

The main issues I'm facing at the moment is knowing what is stored in the registers at a particular time and understanding the constaints on what I can do. Without knowing the former, it's difficult to make sense of anything.

Just thought I'd update on this - I think I've got it sorted and I'll attach the file if/when I have it ready in case anyone else wants the functionality.

Basically, I've added a filter option called "THIS Job" to the list - you can now filter job availability on the level of the job in question (rather than a static job you pick like "Monk"). So as an example, if you take Knight, select THIS Job -> Less Than and enter 5, the Knight class will only be available as long as its level is below 5. Once its level goes to 5 or above, it will be unavailable.

I'm also looking at bringing "Master" into the hack soon so you can make that a requirement instead of a Job level.

I don't know how useful it will be for others or if there's even a demand for such a thing but for me it means I can create "Prestige" job classes, for example: Knight turning into Arc Knight when it's mastered.

Cool stuff man, glad to see someone updating this.