Final Fantasy Hacktics

You can stack up to 6 reaction abilities per character.
This is due to a bug

Here is the priority list:

1- Movement
2- Support
?- -------------
3- Innate 4
4- Innate 3
5- Innate 2
6- Innate 1

See the empty slot? the reaction slot is supposed to be there. But because of a bug it will overwrite the reaction ability during battle with the highest priority reaction ability.

Stacking isn't perfect, like for example I was shooting Ramza (had a bow equipped) with a gun from higher altitude and HP restore wouldn't activate because Counter activated yet couldn't be used because of height difference.

Well anyway here's an example:

40 Brave
Blade Grasp
Hamedo
Counter
Counter Flood

let's say we're being attacked in close range, and every ability can react.
40% Blade Grasp; 60% left
24% Hamedo; 36% left
14,4% Counter; 21,6% left
8,64% Counter Flood; 12,96% left
12,96% No Reaction

Now let's say a black chawcawbaw is trying to shoot chawcaw balls right next to you in your face.
Null Blade Grasp; 100% left
Null Hamedo; 100% left
40% Counter; 60% left
24% Counter Flood; 36% left
36% No Reaction

There, hope you got it; I ain't explaining again!

*coughs and waits for Zodiac to give him credit for bringing it up over in PMs after playtesting it*

 

Didn't know that about the reactive Reaction abilities since I was trying it with the passive Reaction abilities such as Finger Guard, Arrow Guard, Weapon Guard, and Abandon.

(I did figure that Counter Magic and Counter should stack since they don't have similar triggers at all either, but I didn't get around to testing it.)

Neato.

Chawcaw huh?

Learn something new every day

Erm..

I must say that it's because of your testing I decided to check myself. Now who said they can't stack at first, that I can't recall. I never tested it before and I assumed they couldn't stack based on someone else who wasn't me! >< I'm ashamed

Well, Skip Sandwich was the one that brought up to the point where I was interested enough to test out myself sooner rather than later since I had thought about giving a few monsters in my patch multiple reactions.

I don't know who told him, though.

Still, you tested it out for the Reactions that have similar triggers and the percentage can certainly come in handy....

by "highest priority" do you mean innate 4 will trump innate 1 (e.g.), or is it an order within the reactions themselves?

And does this render the assigned reaction useless?

so basically you're saying that... i can use more than one reaction ability?

Quote from: "BeoulveBlack"so basically you're saying that... i can use more than one reaction ability?

Yes, you can, as long they are there Innately (via FFTPatcher).

As with regards to having only one Innate one and then an actual equipped, I'll try and test out later today. I just need to think up abilities for my other Tier 2 class.

(I think it gets overidden, though, Philsov. It might just be overridden in the way that Zodiac showed, though, so I'll try to test with things that have similar triggers.)

Quote from: "philsov"by "highest priority" do you mean innate 4 will trump innate 1 (e.g.), or is it an order within the reactions themselves?

And does this render the assigned reaction useless?

Only one reaction ability can trigger. Since it will try to activate innate 4 before innate 1, it has more chance to activate compared to the latter.

As soon as a reaction ability is set in the innates/support/movement slot, the reaction slot will be overriden.

Would it be possible to hack the game into having a whole list of innates reactions go off at once or is the game engine just not capable of that?

I don't think any amount of hacking could make that possible, especially since some Reactions with the same triggers are in direct conflict with each other, like Counter and Hamedo. It seems like it would crash the game big time, but that's just a guess.

Anyway, I did some testing just to confirm that Innate Reactions override any you try to equip. They seem to, but I think my problem is that I have Innate Weapon Guard on everyone (which I know have to undo, ugh   ) and Weapon Guard is ALWAYS active, so.... I guess I could test it out with like Innate Counter on most people, but since the game seems to geniunely unequip your Reaction, I doubt it will work and I have a lot of other things to do right now.

Oh, and trying to change them to Supports didn't work either like I thought.

Oh well. At least monsters can have multiple reactions without "problems". (For the record, the only problem with multiple reactions for humans is when you try to have a different Reaction.)

Well thats kind of what i mean i was wondering about combining things like weapon guard and counter tackle.  After analysis that combination is pretty much hamedo so it already exists.

bump@

Never knew this was possible.

Wait, is innate 4 before or after the one you can assign in-game?


Will make for some fun class innates if the one you choose has highest priority. Otherwise... meh.

All innate reactions cancel the set one.
In theory, this can also be taken advantage of to give units wit ??? stats an extra support or movement ability.
Just set a movement or support ability in their reaction slot, then set their reaction(s) in the innate slots.

It's before. In fact, from what Zodiac mentioned above, I believe the in-game reaction slot will be overriden by the innates, rendering it useless.

From my current knowledge this would be cause by the monster override, like to show Counter as reaction ability in the monster status screens. It shouldn't be too hard to make an asm hack that cancels this. I doubt anyone cares for this anyway.

Thanks for this post. I wasn't able to find it... was probably searching in the Help section

Based on your results, it seems that those Brave-triggered Reactions only one can occur at a point in time, and if it does not proc, the lower priority ones will fire off after (probability being Brave* remaining proc chance%). But I wonder if the other ones would go off as well, but only one animation being shown?

For example, if I have these innates in this priority order

Brave 100
innate4: Faith Up
innate3: MA Save
innate2: PA Save
innate1: SP Save

This would mean Faith Up proc 100% of the time, the rest never. But I am curious if anyone was able to test this and made sure that no MA/PA/SP are gained in the status screen, even though the reaction animation won't be shown explicitly.


Finally by overriding the reaction slot with an innate reaction, do you mean by completely disregarding the reaction in the reaction slot, rather than having it being a lower priority reaction?

For example,

Brave 100
innate4: Counter Magic
reaction slot: Blade Grasp

The character is being hit by a physical normal attack. Will Blade Grasp ever trigger?


I will go test these two scenarios if it hasn't already been done. Thanks in advance.

Don't know, during my tests the reaction ability seemed to be crushed, yet in S3 we saw a Female Ninja with Weapon Guard + Speed Save. Weapon Guard became another Speed Save but it was still active.
Might work for passive reaction abilities (weapon guard/abandon) or all of them; if I didn't push my testing far enough.

I'm reviving a really old topic, but I figured this out.

1) Innates override set counters.

2) Any combination of innates work.  The problem some of you were having with weapon guard or abandon actually was because some of you were having innate weapon guard/abandon + any reaction ability that was set (from the equip change screen), but this would be true if your innate ability was blade grasp or counter as well.

3)

Quote
For example, if I have these innates in this priority order

Brave 100
innate4: Faith Up
innate3: MA Save
innate2: PA Save
innate1: SP Save

This would mean Faith Up proc 100% of the time, the rest never. But I am curious if anyone was able to test this and made sure that no MA/PA/SP are gained in the status screen, even though the reaction animation won't be shown explicitly.

Impossible unless the attack was physical (where Faith/MA UP would be nullified).


4)

Quote
Finally by overriding the reaction slot with an innate reaction, do you mean by completely disregarding the reaction in the reaction slot, rather than having it being a lower priority reaction?

For example,

Brave 100
innate4: Counter Magic
reaction slot: Blade Grasp

The character is being hit by a physical normal attack. Will Blade Grasp ever trigger?

No.

5) ASM fix for the override problem.
RAM 0x5B580 (OPEN.LZW, I think?)
00000000

What's the ROM address?

SCUS_9291
0x4BD80
00000000

Quote from: formerdeathcorps on February 03, 2011, 07:07:21 pm
I'm reviving a really old topic, but I figured this out.

1) Innates override set counters.

2) Any combination of innates work.  The problem some of you were having with weapon guard or abandon actually was because some of you were having innate weapon guard/abandon + any reaction ability that was set (from the equip change screen), but this would be true if your innate ability was blade grasp or counter as well.

3) Impossible unless the attack was physical (where Faith/MA UP would be nullified).


4)No.

5) ASM fix for the override problem.
RAM 0x5B580 (OPEN.LZW, I think?)
00000000

I know this is an old topic but I figured it was better to reply to this than just have someone refer me back to this thread.

For question 4, you gave a one-word answer "No." Is that "no" to the initial question? Or "no" to the example?

Here's my scenario:

Brave 94
Weapon Ev. 30%
Innate: Weapon Guard
Reaction (equipped in-game): Blade Grasp

My understanding is that if this character is attacked with a physical attack (no Concentrate),

• There's a 30% chance of weapon guard


• if weapon guard fails, a 94% chance of blade grasp

Is my understanding correct?

A thorough explanation would benefit all who are asking about Innate.

Some innate reaction abilities don't seem to stack in the order that I'd like them to.  Counter and Counter Magic, for example, seem to be incompatible (Counter will trigger, Counter magic will not, regardless of the order I place them in).  Critical Quick works as intended when stacked with several abilities, but not when stacked with Speed Save (again, regardless of the order).  Some also will stack in one order always, regardless of the order I place them in (such as Brave up always stacking over Regenerator, but otherwise will work as intended.)  Anyone know why? 

**EDIT**  Found a typo in your hack.  It's 0x5b850, not 0x5b580.  Fixed version:

I tried using abilities that seemed unrelated or triggered by different things like:

Ability slot: Vanish (Brave 90)
innate4: Treasure Hunter
innate3: Poach
innate2: Catch
innate1:

Yet, Vanish from the equipped ability slot never activates...

+Is there an order I could use so Vanish gets a chance?
+ what would the ASM hack mentioned would accomplish?
  -Can this be changed/used/converted to a CWcheat to use in WotL/PSP?

The ASM hack allows you to equip a reaction ability if you  have innate reactions.  Otherwise the innate ones will completely override it.  I have no clue what the code for it is on Wotl.

Also figured out what causes some abilities to not stack right with each other.  It's not the triggers, it's the way the game organizes them.  Anything within the same group here is incompatible with each other (in the sense that, if the game checks and you have one of the abilities on the list, it won't go back to the same list).  List 1 always outprioritizes list 2, and list 2 always outprioritizes list 3.

List 1:
Sunken State, Caution, Dragon Spirit, Brave Up, Face Up, Counter Tackle, Counter Flood, Absorb Used MP, Counter, Counter Magic
List 2:
MP Switch, Distribute, Damage Split
List 3:
PA Save, MA Save, Speed Save, Regenerator, HP Restore, MP Restore, Critical Quick, Meatbone Slash, Gilgame Heart, Auto Potion

So for example, you can have a unit that has Dragon Spirit, Damage Split, Speed Save.  Assuming all 3 are relevant, it'll check Dragon Spirit first regardless of what order you put them in on the innates list.  If it fails, the check for Damage Split is next.  A unit with 2 abilities from the same list will always use whatever is listed first, and will ignore the next one.  So for example, a unit with both Counter and Counter Magic will behave identical to a unit that only has Counter, since that's listed first on the same list.

reliving this for one reason :D

i read here that if u have weapon guard, abandon and blade grasp, blade graps gets useless..., is that right? What about guard+abandon? do they stack if innate?

Also...., o got a celia with Hamedo on Innate, however Hamedo is appearing on the reaction Slot...., and if i take it out, i cant bring it back..., how does that work?

Thanks in advance ^^

I know guard+abadon works just fine. In fact I'm pretty sure they work with blade grasp too. Weapon Guard and Abandon are essentially passive support abilities (that merely modify your stats), while blade grasp is more of an actual reaction ability.

In the base game, it takes innates and literally copy/pastes them into the reaction slot, overwriting it. They did this entirely become of monsters (reactions in the passive slots do NOT show up in-battle along with predicted damage and success rates, only reactions in the reaction slot do). Monsters counter a lot (higher than their brave would imply) because they have two counters equipped.

There are some hacks higher in this thread that will remove the copy/pasting, though it'll have the downside of monster counters not show in battle as their reaction.

hmmm i see! Thanks for the clarifications! :D, i will mess around with it again and see how it turns out! ;)