Title: A little bit of philosophy talk~
Post by: Nova on January 02, 2009, 11:32:29 pm
Post by: Nova on January 02, 2009, 11:32:29 pm
RawEssence = me
<RawEssence> Anyone have have an answer to why things live
<Miroshi> my aim is Eternal Lies01
<Darth_Paul> I think mine is expminus10
<Darth_Paul> Gotta log on to check lol.
<Darth_Paul> @ Raw things live to die.
<RawEssence> Anyone in for some philosophy talk
<RawEssence> Darth_Paul: then go die
<RawEssence> like, now
<Darth_Paul> Wow you sound like asmo.
<RawEssence> If that's what you think why things live
<RawEssence> Then we should all kill ourselves, at this moment
<RawEssence> Would you like to re-answer? :P
<RawEssence> Yeah, my whole opinion on this is
<RawEssence> You live life to enjoy and explore life itself
<RawEssence> to experience feelings
<Darth_Paul> Thats the way it work nothing more to it.
<RawEssence> But when you take a step back and look at it all
<RawEssence> there is no purpose to it
<RawEssence> none
<Darth_Paul> Your starting to depress me cause what you say may be true but it depends on how you tackle life.
<RawEssence> Depends if you want to look at it in the real way
<RawEssence> :P
<RawEssence> Yeah, it is depressing
<RawEssence> Knowing the truth, or at least being able to see it
<Darth_Paul> Think of it the way I do I'm here to play mah bass, rock some video games, and when my body gives out I die.
<RawEssence> oh, I do :P
<RawEssence> Maybe someone dreaming of sex will make them wake up and go get some LOL
<RawEssence> there, enjoyment found
<RawEssence> So this convo over
<RawEssence> XD
<RawEssence> SO FINAL CONCLUSION
<RawEssence> Purpose to living: listen,feel,enjoy
<Darth_Paul> Indeed.
<RawEssence> should i post this onto forumz
<RawEssence> make peeps depressed LOL
<RawEssence> oh, and a 2nd final conclusion
<RawEssence> SEX = 99% OF LIFES ENJOYMENT
<RawEssence> GET OUT AND GOGOGO
<RawEssence> FAWMPFAWMPFWAMP
<RawEssence> there, that will make people smilie
<Darth_Paul> Nice sex is one of the best things about living.
<RawEssence> Anyone have have an answer to why things live
<Miroshi> my aim is Eternal Lies01
<Darth_Paul> I think mine is expminus10
<Darth_Paul> Gotta log on to check lol.
<Darth_Paul> @ Raw things live to die.
<RawEssence> Anyone in for some philosophy talk
<RawEssence> Darth_Paul: then go die
<RawEssence> like, now
<Darth_Paul> Wow you sound like asmo.
<RawEssence> If that's what you think why things live
<RawEssence> Then we should all kill ourselves, at this moment
<RawEssence> Would you like to re-answer? :P
<RawEssence> Yeah, my whole opinion on this is
<RawEssence> You live life to enjoy and explore life itself
<RawEssence> to experience feelings
<Darth_Paul> Thats the way it work nothing more to it.
<RawEssence> But when you take a step back and look at it all
<RawEssence> there is no purpose to it
<RawEssence> none
<Darth_Paul> Your starting to depress me cause what you say may be true but it depends on how you tackle life.
<RawEssence> Depends if you want to look at it in the real way
<RawEssence> :P
<RawEssence> Yeah, it is depressing
<RawEssence> Knowing the truth, or at least being able to see it
<Darth_Paul> Think of it the way I do I'm here to play mah bass, rock some video games, and when my body gives out I die.
<RawEssence> oh, I do :P
<RawEssence> Maybe someone dreaming of sex will make them wake up and go get some LOL
<RawEssence> there, enjoyment found
<RawEssence> So this convo over
<RawEssence> XD
<RawEssence> SO FINAL CONCLUSION
<RawEssence> Purpose to living: listen,feel,enjoy
<Darth_Paul> Indeed.
<RawEssence> should i post this onto forumz
<RawEssence> make peeps depressed LOL
<RawEssence> oh, and a 2nd final conclusion
<RawEssence> SEX = 99% OF LIFES ENJOYMENT
<RawEssence> GET OUT AND GOGOGO
<RawEssence> FAWMPFAWMPFWAMP
<RawEssence> there, that will make people smilie
<Darth_Paul> Nice sex is one of the best things about living.
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Post by: philsov on January 03, 2009, 01:07:54 pm
Post by: philsov on January 03, 2009, 01:07:54 pm
As nice as existential angst is, the purpose of life (in the biological sense) is to survive, and possibly procreate or improve the quality of life of both the self and those around it. If having fun is what helps you stay alive, then, sure, "listen, feel, enjoying" is the purpose, but the underlyer is survival. If there was no listening, feeling, or enjoying, would you still want to live?
There's plenty of wastes of skins out there, mind, but when you get down to it even if a lot of people don't want to live, they certainly don't want to die.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html)
Pretty much any query will do to prove my point.
~27000 suicides in 2005 in the US. Compared to the roughly... <1.5 million deaths in the US? Pretty small by relation.
There will always be outliers :p
And I say survive and then possibly procreate because there's usually a direct ratio between food supply and fecundity rates in pretty much all species (WHOAMG at sub-sahara Africa in general), and then there's the whole maslow's hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg) bit.
Oh, and he's an xkcd on the matter.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nihilism.png)
There's plenty of wastes of skins out there, mind, but when you get down to it even if a lot of people don't want to live, they certainly don't want to die.
http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html (http://webapp.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/leadcaus10.html)
Pretty much any query will do to prove my point.
~27000 suicides in 2005 in the US. Compared to the roughly... <1.5 million deaths in the US? Pretty small by relation.
There will always be outliers :p
And I say survive and then possibly procreate because there's usually a direct ratio between food supply and fecundity rates in pretty much all species (WHOAMG at sub-sahara Africa in general), and then there's the whole maslow's hierarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg) bit.
Oh, and he's an xkcd on the matter.
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/nihilism.png)
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Post by: Zalge on January 03, 2009, 01:31:17 pm
Post by: Zalge on January 03, 2009, 01:31:17 pm
Embrace your dreams.
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Post by: Archael on January 03, 2009, 01:38:07 pm
Post by: Archael on January 03, 2009, 01:38:07 pm
agree with pretty much everything philsov said
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Post by: Cheetah on January 03, 2009, 02:53:18 pm
Post by: Cheetah on January 03, 2009, 02:53:18 pm
I work in a children's psych ward, and I see depressed suicidal teenagers everyday. I blame hormones for teenage angst. I believe pretty much everyone goes through it, I know I sure did, and it gets much better when you get past those years. The thing that got me through it was I was just really curious how it would all turn out, and I still am. And if you want some statistics to think about, think about how many sperm your dad shot out, and think about how only a few days a month that would have made any difference, and think about how all your life experiences have made you who you are today and if any little thing had been different you would be a totally different person and not you. Not sure if any of that made much since, but that is just my perspective from being able to see what I what I was like when I was a teenager and how much has changed from that and that time and determination can solve pretty much any problem.
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Post by: Dormin Jake on January 03, 2009, 08:39:21 pm
Post by: Dormin Jake on January 03, 2009, 08:39:21 pm
My love for xkcd flows from the deepest recesses of my heart.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 06:52:44 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 06:52:44 pm
I blame hormones for teenage angst.
It's not hormones that cause suicide;it's the way society treats people who arn't good enough to be a part of that society! maybe it's because they are eccentric,but thats no reason to outcast those eccentrics!and because of the way they are rejected,they feel like they arne't good enough to live!
okay;said a little more than I was planning;but I'm 15 and I know what it's like to be one of those outcast,and it isn't the hormones that would cause
suicide
anyway;we live because we were made to live for some purpose beyond human understanding
It's not hormones that cause suicide;it's the way society treats people who arn't good enough to be a part of that society! maybe it's because they are eccentric,but thats no reason to outcast those eccentrics!and because of the way they are rejected,they feel like they arne't good enough to live!
okay;said a little more than I was planning;but I'm 15 and I know what it's like to be one of those outcast,and it isn't the hormones that would cause
suicide
anyway;we live because we were made to live for some purpose beyond human understanding
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 10:27:41 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 10:27:41 pm
But SBB your explanation falls back on hormones because in the teenage years it's hormones that cause people to be different than other, noting this is not always the case as I was different by choice, and if you look at it society is to blame for much of what teenagers go through. At the same time though teenagers cause their own problems with their constant angst.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 10:44:34 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 10:44:34 pm
no,
teenagers cause other teenagers' angsts
populer people don't commit suicide as much,it would seem
but teen suicides are caused by hormones,to some extent
it is the first group of teens that push the second group to suicide
and the instability of their mental state that cause them kill themselves
teenagers cause other teenagers' angsts
populer people don't commit suicide as much,it would seem
but teen suicides are caused by hormones,to some extent
it is the first group of teens that push the second group to suicide
and the instability of their mental state that cause them kill themselves
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 10:58:46 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 10:58:46 pm
Think of it my way my angst caused me to lash out at my teachers on occasions which landed me in detention more often than not.
^One example of a teens angst causing his problems.
^One example of a teens angst causing his problems.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 11:03:28 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 04, 2009, 11:03:28 pm
^One example of a teens angst causing his problems.
never said it was my problem
never said it was my problem
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 11:05:59 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 04, 2009, 11:05:59 pm
Not to sound like an ass but your problems don't matter as much as you think they do.
Just take my approach and look at the bong as half full.
Just take my approach and look at the bong as half full.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 05, 2009, 03:21:48 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 05, 2009, 03:21:48 pm
never said my problems matter(they don't even matter to me)
but that is amazing advice
but that is amazing advice
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 03:31:45 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 03:31:45 pm
Why thank you my problems don't matter to me either with this mentality.
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Post by: philsov on January 05, 2009, 04:11:09 pm
Post by: philsov on January 05, 2009, 04:11:09 pm
Quote from: "Samuriblackbelt"no,
teenagers cause other teenagers' angsts
populer people don't commit suicide as much,it would seem
but teen suicides are caused by hormones,to some extent
it is the first group of teens that push the second group to suicide
and the instability of their mental state that cause them kill themselves
Only in some cases. That's a gross overgeneralization. In some cases they're mentally ill in the truest sense of the word, and are just too scared to ask for help. Or this. Or that. There's a plethora of reasons. But not every teenage suicade can be traced to "Cool Johnny laughed at me in the locker room."
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Post by: Archael on January 05, 2009, 05:13:06 pm
Post by: Archael on January 05, 2009, 05:13:06 pm
Quote from: "Samuriblackbelt"no,
teenagers cause other teenagers' angsts
populer people don't commit suicide as much,it would seem
but teen suicides are caused by hormones,to some extent
it is the first group of teens that push the second group to suicide
and the instability of their mental state that cause them kill themselves
wtf!!!
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Post by: Koizumi on January 05, 2009, 05:40:58 pm
Post by: Koizumi on January 05, 2009, 05:40:58 pm
Quote from: "Samuriblackbelt"no,
teenagers cause other teenagers' angsts
populer people don't commit suicide as much,it would seem
but teen suicides are caused by hormones,to some extent
it is the first group of teens that push the second group to suicide
and the instability of their mental state that cause them kill themselves
That's definately only in some cases.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 05, 2009, 06:14:15 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 05, 2009, 06:14:15 pm
okay
that was a little over generalized
and it was just me ranting about someone I knew
sorry
that was a little over generalized
and it was just me ranting about someone I knew
sorry
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Post by: philsov on January 05, 2009, 08:15:18 pm
Post by: philsov on January 05, 2009, 08:15:18 pm
Quote<Darth_Paul> Nice sex is one of the best things about living.
You need to experience the different sex variants, Darth.
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Post by: AngrySurprisedFace on January 05, 2009, 09:54:06 pm
Post by: AngrySurprisedFace on January 05, 2009, 09:54:06 pm
Apparently we live because God wants us to look after the other lifeforms he created.
He essentially gave us rule over the earth and everything else on it.
"and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so (Genesis 1:28-30)."
So to answer your question, we are here to look after everything else. We are supposed to be, I guess, caretakers of the Earth.
Of course I'm a little bit of a skeptic on this entire idea of God and his creating us, but w/e.
Personally, I believe that we live to be another piece in the puzzle of the universe, and the universes beyond that. Eternity so to speak. We live to exist. I think that the idea of "why things live" is something human beings cannot comprehend fully - and I doubt will ever be able to comprehend fully.
He essentially gave us rule over the earth and everything else on it.
"and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so (Genesis 1:28-30)."
So to answer your question, we are here to look after everything else. We are supposed to be, I guess, caretakers of the Earth.
Of course I'm a little bit of a skeptic on this entire idea of God and his creating us, but w/e.
Personally, I believe that we live to be another piece in the puzzle of the universe, and the universes beyond that. Eternity so to speak. We live to exist. I think that the idea of "why things live" is something human beings cannot comprehend fully - and I doubt will ever be able to comprehend fully.
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 10:20:39 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 10:20:39 pm
Quote from: "philsov"Quote<Darth_Paul> Nice sex is one of the best things about living.
You need to experience the different sex variants, Darth.
That is a possibility Philsov.
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Post by: Koizumi on January 05, 2009, 10:47:50 pm
Post by: Koizumi on January 05, 2009, 10:47:50 pm
I personally believe there isn't a real reason, this planet just happened to support life, and humans just happened to come to be here. The concept of "why we live" is just something created from the fact that we have the ability to wonder such things. This is just my opinion on the matter of course.
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Post by: Asmo X on January 05, 2009, 11:07:45 pm
Post by: Asmo X on January 05, 2009, 11:07:45 pm
Being a steward of the earth sounds nice, but I don't think it's of any value to someone going through an existential crisis. The problem goes that if there's no authority to set benchmarks on morality and purpose, then we live in a valueless universe and thus one without meaning. To add, I don't think that if such an authority existed it would make a scrap of difference so long as you still have people who are free to contemplate and act outside the guidance of that authority. Firstly, this would still leave the individual as the indecisive author of their own existence and secondly, it would seem to weaken the dominion of the authority who sets the rules.
This view of "meaning" is pretty grim, but I think a bit too simplistic to cover human experience for reasons which I don't feel like elaborating on at the moment. The point I'm trying to make is that as long as people are endlessly free to act and contemplate, there will never be any freedom from "why" even if God itself decrees that you have a job. After all, why does it seem that I am capable of ignoring my duty?
This view of "meaning" is pretty grim, but I think a bit too simplistic to cover human experience for reasons which I don't feel like elaborating on at the moment. The point I'm trying to make is that as long as people are endlessly free to act and contemplate, there will never be any freedom from "why" even if God itself decrees that you have a job. After all, why does it seem that I am capable of ignoring my duty?
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Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 11:09:22 pm
Post by: DarthPaul on January 05, 2009, 11:09:22 pm
I have a similar opinion to Koiz but I believe in the possibility of a god. If we just so happened to come to existence by coincidence then our upper level of cognition makes us need a sense of meaning to live and that's why kooks cling to religion. In essence peoples meaning for living is what keeps our society from collapsing.
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Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 06, 2009, 08:57:20 pm
Post by: Samuraiblackbelt on January 06, 2009, 08:57:20 pm
the agnostic,dislexic,insomniac stayed up all night wondering if there was a doG