Final Fantasy Hacktics

AI flags altered so that Bad Breath, Goo, Quick, and Seal can be used by enemies
Haste's duration reduced to Slow's duration => Haste was too good

Skills

WHITE MAGIC
holy elemental
Cure family - Q10/15/20/28, CT4/5/6/7; Cure4 is 3v3 and costs 30MP
Raise2 - success 190, CT8, 25MP
Protect2/Shell2 - success 240, 24MP
Wall - success 200, 12MP
Holy - Q40

BLACK MAGIC
Fire/Bolt/Ice family - Q12/16/21/28, CT4/5/6/7, MP6/12/20/36
Poison - success 180
Frog - success 140
Death - success 120, CT7
Flare - Q42, 42MP, Unevadable

TIME MAGIC
Haste2/Slow2 - CT5
Stop - success 120
Demi - CT5, Dark elemental
Demi2 - success 160, 40MP, Dark elemental
Meteor - CT15

YIN-YANG MAGIC
Life Drain - 20MP
Zombie - success 140
Blind Rage - success 150

SUMMON MAGIC
Moogle - Q10, 12MP
Shiva/Ramuh/Ifrit - Q20, 32MP, CT6
Titan - 3v3, Q25, 52MP, CT8
Bahamut - Q42, 80MP
Odin - 2v2, success 110, CT9, 72MP, Dark elemental, Lich Formula,
________may add: Dead, Treasure, or Crystal
Leviathan - Q34, CT9, 60MP
Salamander - Q30, CT7, 48MP
Fairy - CT6
Lich - success 140, CT8, 50MP, may add: Dead
Cyclops - 72MP
Zodiac - Q90, CT13

DRAW OUT
Asura - MA*6, may add Don't Move
Kotetsu - MA*9, may add Blind
Bizen Boat - may add Silence
Murasame - MA*8
Heaven's Cloud - MA*11
Kiyomori - adds Protect OR shell
Muramasa - MA*14

SING
Angel Song - CT4
Life Song - CT4, MA+30
Cheer/Battle/Magic Song - CT5, 100% success
Nameless Song - CT7, 34% chance, may add Transparent
Last Song - CT10
does not work when Silenced

DANCE
Last Dance - 50% from 34% success

PUNCH ART
Spin Fist - 2v2
Repeating Fist - 1v2, 1...11*PA

ELEMENTAL
Formula: ([(PA+4)/2]*MA)

CHARGE
CTR = X+1 for Charge +X, except +7 is 7, +10 is 9, and +20 is 12

BATTLE SKILL
Equipment breakage now ignores evasion.

MATH SKILL(all can be learned Blue Mage style)
Goblin Punch - (PA+65)% success
Fire Bracelet - MA*12
Wind Soul - ([(MA+10)/2]*MA)
Mimic Titan - 4v1, MA*6
Giga Flare - MA*15
Dark Whisper
Choco Esuna
Clam Spirit - cast Wall, (MA+60)% success
Nose Bracelet - (MA+65)% success
Level Blast
Death Sentence
Drain Touch
Blaster - (MA+50)% success
Bad Bracelet
Self Destruct
Ultima (2) - can only be learned Blue Mage style!

GUTS
Dash - PA*1...6
Throw Stone - PA*1...3
Ultima - Q26
-Invitation in Chapters 2-4

SWORDSKILLS
-Holy Sword is no longer Holy elemental
Stasis Sword - 10MP
Split Punch - 8MP
Crush Punch - 8MP
Lightning Stab - 16MP
Holy Explosion - 20MP
Blastar Punch - 8MP
Shellbust Stab - 8MP
Hellcry Punch -10MP
Icewolf Bite - 10MP
Night Sword - Formula: Regular attack w/ Drain, 15MP
Magic Ruin - success 200
Speed/Power/Mind Ruin - success 180

ALL SWORD SKILL
Stasis Sword
Blastar Punch
Night Sword
Magic Ruin
Speed Ruin
Power Ruin
Mind Ruin

MIGHTY SWORD - gains Blitz Sword: PA*WP, Range 3, Effect 1, 5MP

DARK SWORD - Dark Sword 100% learn chance; 0 JP cost =>allows Gafgarion to always have Dark Sword
(not available to players)

SNIPE
+10 accuracy

TRUTH
all 2v1, -1 CTR

UNTRUTH
all 2v2, range 2, -1 CTR, cannot hit allies

DRAGON
Holy Bracelet - Ice/Fire/Thunder Bracelet with Holy elemental and Q20

LIMIT
-now only requires Sword/Knight Sword
-targets enemies
Braver - Q10
Cross Slash - Q16
Climhazzard - 5CTR
Meteorain - Q20, 8CTR
Omnislash - Q30,10CTR
Cherry Blossom - Q50, 16CTR

WORK
Destroy - does HP/10 to caster
Compress - does HP/8 to caster
Dispose - does HP/6 to caster
Crush - 1v1, does HP/6 to caster

ENEMY-ONLY SKILLS
Seal - range 3
Zodiac monster skills cost no MP

ITEM
Potion - 100% learn  chance
Phoenix Down - 100% learn chance (with 70JP cost)
=>gives enemy chemists the basics

Remove:
Gained JP Up from all generics and Ramza; balance by making JP cost about 2/3 normal for generic skills
=>reduce gap between player and enemy; allow specials to catch up
Move+2,Move+3,Jump+2,Jump+3,Fly,Teleport,Ignore Height =>keeps humans from moving ungodly far
Blade Grasp, Math Skill =>removed b/c too cheap

Classes

Holy Dragon(the semi-monster) - 20MAM

Dark Knight(Gafgarion as enemy) - 200MPM

Holy Priest(Zalmo) - White Magic skillset, Innate Magic Attack Up

Arc Knight(Elmdor) - 140MAM, Innate Def/MDef Up

Divine Knight(Vormav/Rofel) - Innate Def/MDef Up

Sorceror (Kletian) - Non-charge, Innate Def/MDef Up

Arc Knight (Zalbag, possessed) - Innate Def/MDef Up

Zodiac Beasts: all have Non-charge, 2x HP
-Warlock: Counter Magic; immune Silence
-Angel of Death: Meatbone Slash
-Regulator: initial Reflect
-Holy Angel: Damage Split; immune Don't Act
-Impure King: Critical Quick
-Ghost of Fury: Regenerator; immune Silence
-Arch Angel: Damage Split


......   HPC...HPM...MPC..MPM...SpC...SpM...PAC..PAM...MAC..MAM.Mov..Jum..CEv
Ramza..   10   125   11   105   090   105   40   105   45   100   4   3   10
Agrias.   10   140   11   100   100   100   40   120   50   100   3   3   25
Mustadi   11   100   13   075   075   125   50   095   50   100   3   4   18
Rafa...   11   090   11   100   100   115   50   080   45   110   3   3   10
Malak..   10   100   11   110   100   110   50   105   50   100   4   3   08
Orlandu   10   160   11   120   098   110   42   105   42   100   4   3   20
Melia..   10   125   12   090   100   105   39   110   50   090   4   3   12
Beowulf   10   122   11   145   100   105   42   115   45   105   4   3   14
Reis...   05   140   10   115   090   120   35   120   32   110   3   3   07
Cloud..   11   125   10   100   100   100   45   110   40   100   3   3   20
                                       
Squire.   10   100   13   075   100   100   50   100   50   080   4   3   10
Chemist   11   080   12   075   100   100   60   075   50   090   3   3   05
Knight.   08   160   15   070   100   100   35   120   60   070   3   3   10
Archer.   10   100   16   065   085   115   42   110   60   060   3   4   10
Monk...   09   150   13   080   100   110   40   120   55   080   3   4   20
Priest.   11   080   10   120   100   110   50   090   45   105   3   3   05
Wizard.   12   075   09   120   100   100   60   060   40   130   3   3   05
Time M.   12   075   10   120   100   100   65   050   42   115   1   1   05
Summon.   13   070   07   150   100   090   70   050   40   120   3   3   05
Thief..   10   090   16   050   075   120   45   100   60   060   4   4   33
Mediat.   11   090   14   070   100   100   55   080   50   080   3   3   15
Oracle.   12   075   10   110   100   100   60   050   45   110   3   3   05
Geoma..   10   110   11   095   100   100   45   110   50   105   4   3   10
Lancer.   10   120   16   050   090   110   40   110   50   050   3   4   15
Samurai   10   075   13   090   100   100   45   125   50   110   3   3   20
Ninja..   12   070   13   050   080   125   50   100   60   075   4   4   25
Calcu..   10   100   13   075   100   100   50   095   45   110   3   3   10
Bard...   13   075   11   095   100   100   55   080   50   115   4   3   05
Dancer.   13   080   14   070   100   100   50   110   50   095   4   3   05
Mime...   06   200   20   050   100   120   35   120   40   115   4   4   05

Engineer(Mustadio) - Maintenance, equip: Bow, Xbow
Hell Knight(Malak) - Innate Two Swords, can equip Knife, Ninja Sword
Holy Swordsman(Orlandu) - cannot equip Clothes/Hats
Soldier(Cloud) - Two Hands, can equip Knight Sword

-Armored classes cannot equip Armlets, Unarmored classes cannot equip Gauntlets
Squire - Equip Change, equip: Everything except Perfume
Chemist - equip: Robe
Knight - equip: Axe, Spear; cannot equip Robe
Archer - Concentrate
Priest - equip: Flail
Time Mage - Teleport
Thief - equip: Ninja Sword
Mediator - Defense Up, Train, equip: Dictionary
Oracle - Move in Water, Any Weather
Geomancer - Any Ground, Move on Lava, Half: Earth
Lancer - Ignore Height, cannot equip Shield, Robe
Samurai - Two Hands
Ninja - cannot equip Knife
Calculator -> Blue Mage - Monster Talk, equip: Sword, cannot equip Dictionary
Bard - immune: Silence, equip: Robe

Requirements:
Knight/Archer: 3 Squire
Monk: 3 Knight
Thief: 3 Archer
Geomancer: 4 Monk
Lancer: 4 Thief
Samurai: 4 Knight, 5 Monk, 3 Lancer
Ninja: 4 Archer, 5 Thief, 3 Geomancer
Wizard/Priest: 3 Chemist
Time Mage: 3 Wizard
Summoner: 3 Time Mage
Oracle: 3 Priest
Mediator: 3 Oracle
Calculator: 4 Wizard, 4 Priest
Dancer: 4 Geomancer, 4 Lancer
Bard: 4 Mediator, 4 Summoner
Mime: 4 Mediator, 4 Summoner, 4 Lancer, 4 Geomancer

Monsters
All given HP*1.4 and their "Monster Skill"

Chocobo - 7 Jump, Ignore Height
Black Chocobo - 7 Move, Walk on Water (Ninja Skill); remove Fly
Red Chocobo - 9 Move, 2 Jump; remove Ignore Height

Sacred - 4 Move

Red Dragon - 18MAC

Coeurls/Skeletons/Dryads/Behemoths/Dragons(except Red Dragon) - 20MAC

Dryads - reaction: Counter Magic

Pigs - reaction: Regenerator


EQUIPMENT

KNIFE
Mythril Knife - +1 MA
Blind Knife - add: Poison and/or Darkness
Mage Masher - add: Silence and/or Innocent
Platina Dagger - add: Don't Move
Orichalcum/Assassin Dagger/Air Knife - +1 Sp
Zorlin Shape - +2 Sp

NINJA SWORD
-all -1 WP
Hidden Knife available at Ch2 Lionel Castle

SWORD
-all W.Ev +10%
Mythril Sword - +1 MA
Sleep Sword - Ch3 Start
Diamond Sword - Ch3 Lionel Castle
Ancient Sword - 11 WP Ch3 Orbonne Monestary
Materia Blade - 35% WEv, +3 MA

KNIGHT SWORD
-cannot use Two Sword
-used by enemies at lv35+ (Defender, Save the Queen, Ragnarok)
Excalibur - Auto-Regen, not Auto-Haste
Chaos Blade - Auto-Berserk, not Auto-Regen

KATANA
all W.Ev 40%
cannot use Two Sword

AXE
- does not require two hands, Wind elemental, Strengthen Wind
Battle Axe - cast Pitfall
Giant Axe - cast Earth Slash
Slasher - cast Blitz Sword

Dragon Rod - cast Bahamut

STAFF - Strengthen Holy
White Staff - Holy elemental
Healing Staff - 8WP, Holy elemental, cast Wall
Rainbow Staff - Half Fire and Water
Gold Staff - immune: Blood Suck, Undead
Sage Staff - Holy elemental, cast Holy

Mythril Gun - +1 MA

FLAIL
- Wind elemental, Strengthen Wind
Flail - cast Power Break
Morning Star - cast Return2

CROSSBOW
Bow Gun - 4 WP
Night Killer - 5 WP
Poison Bow - 6 WP
Cross Bow - 8 WP
Hunting Bow - 10 WP
Gastrafitis - 14 WP

BOW
Ice Bow - cast Ice 2
Mythril Bow - MA +1
Windslash Bow - 6 range

HARP
- 5 Range
Ramia Harp - cast Ultima
Bloody Strings - Absorb Dark
Fairy Harp - +2 MA, add Confusion and/or Charm

DICTIONARY
- 4 Range
Battle Dict - 8WP, cast Bolt3
Monster Dict - 10WP, cast Spell Absorb
Papyrus Plate - 12WP, cast Demi
Madlemgen - 16WP, cast Flare

SPEAR
-forced 2 Hands, 50% W.Ev
Mythril Spear - +1 MA

STICK
-forced 2 Hands, 60% W.Ev

BAG
-Wind elemental, Strengthen Wind
FS Bag - 30 WP

CLOTH
Persia - +1PA
Cashmere - +1MA
Ryozan Silk - +1Sp

Mid/Late Shields have less evasion

Clothes gain a bit more HP

ARMOR/HELMET
- gains more HP and some gain MP
Diamond Helmet/Armor +1PA
Genji Helmet/Armor +1MA

Mantles have less evasion

Defense Ring - Always: Berserk

Chantage - Always: Reraise changed to Inital: Reraise
Setiesmon - Always: Berserk

With the Draw Out changes, does that mean you restored Kikuichimoji back to its original form? If so, that's a good idea.

And just as a matter of personal opinion, I don't think Murasame needs an obligatory status effect.

-------------------------
Squire: Equip Change, can equip all items but perfumes
Knight: can equip Axes, Spears; cannot equip Robes
Time Mage: Teleport
Thief: Concentrate, can equip Ninja swords
Mediator: Train
Oracle: Any Weather, Move in Water
Geomancer: Move on Lava, Half: Earth
Lancer: Ignore Height, cannot equip Robes, Shields
Samurai: Two Hands
Ninja: cannot equip Knives
Calculator: can equip Swords, cannot equip Dictionaries
Bard: immune to Silence
------------------------

Thief w/ concentrate as well eh. Interesting. What about Archer though? Don't back down on giving it concentrate too. The rest seems pretty awesome. I would have given all the terrain/weather skills to the Geo but I know Oracle is one of the classes in limbo. But I would make Oracles immune to Blind for the same reason the Bard is immune to Silence. Suits the theme.

Decided not to give the Mediator Def Up after all? I was looking forward to tanking one out.

Post your completed Blue Mage skillset, and the edits on the moves <3

I have posted it now.

[Btw, I haven't incorporated all my ideas into it yet, but yeah, some of those ideas I had before are getting added in just a sec...]

What did you do? If you kept Math Skill, I hope you did change Math Skill's skillset type to normal and not leave it as Math Skill right?

Else, it's gonna do as philsov did.  

Is there any reason that Goblin Punch shouldn't be 100% successful? Alongside the rest of the game's skills I don't think that would be unreasonable

Above should include all that is in the patch. I will try to fix the errors in my spread this afternoon. I currently do not have access to the spread.

I don't think Kiyomori should add both Protect AND Shell on every character in the area. Seems a bit overpowered to me.

When I was testing "Blue Mage" I noticed the Math Skill thing, fortunately.

Goblin Punch probably should have high accuracy, but not 100%. Maybe... MA+80? It shouldn't be a problem then.

IIRC go check the AS sheet for changing Math Skill's skillset type.

What are the new requirements for the Blue Mage?

Blue Mage works. It's requirements will be JLv4 priest and JLv4 wizard. Sound reasonable?

Guess so, all the tier 3 classes like Ninja and Samurai usually end up needing jlvl 3-4.

Which sprite are you giving it?

Calculator... until I find a way to make the Blue Mage sprite. That detail isn't as important as deciding what skills each person should have.

I'll see if I can't fix the spread so that I can post the patch now. It will have lots of problems (lest a miracle befalls us) and I'll need feedback when beta 1 is out.

Can I just patch it onto my current game, which is 1.2 combined with Argg0's story battle mod? Don't wanna restart AGAIN =p

So yeah...did you make the Defense Ring into Berserk Ring? Give Ramza Ch2+ Invite? Make the Chicken (Weapon)? =p

No, Yes, and no, but the last one is just because I forgot.

Defense Ring to Berserk Ring sounds okay... I was also thinking about changing either Blind Rage or Setiesmon to have berserk as well. Salty Rage's name fits, yet Setiesmon has the Auto: Haste, which seems like a good idea for a berserk perfume.

Yeah, it sounds fun. The Setiesmon would be balanced out by the fact that guys have more PA. Guys hit harder, girls hit faster.

I think Initial Haste would be better though, but your choice.

Another Blue Mage spell from a few games, like FFIX, was Vanish. Any way to create it? =p

I'm sure there is, since we have Transparent status. I'll try adding that too.

Hehe cool. So how's the current moveset looking

Fairly good... I haven't added any to replace those, so we're looking mostly at Move-Get X and bypass certain terrain effects. Float is looking like a mighty fine choice! Personally, I prefer Move-HP up, so I have no problem with this current set, but... I dunno.

Hehe wheee

Need any more comments on any ideas you plan? Post some here, I'll reply after dinner

Well... some things in that HUGE list that I think might have been overlooked (or added later)

TG Cid - Destroy Sword replaces Holy Explosion, Hellcry Punch, Night Sword, Dark Sword

Meliadoul - given Dark Sword and Night Sword, not Split Punch

Dictionary - casts magic (Bolt3, Return2, Demi, Flare) last one is only obtained by poaching Great Morbol

Sounds cool for the most part. And when will the patch be done? I wanna make a Blue Mage ASAP =D

Well, if I correct this error right, then it shouldn't be more than ~1 hour, though I probably will overlook something

Sure, and I'll help you test it out =)

Okay, once I get the Chocobos and the Blue Mage right, it's getting posted!

And Berserk Ring? =p

Yep, that's in here too.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/29/1552821/SCUS_942.21

Lemme know if that works.

Yep, works. Where'd you put Move+1?

Edit: Nvm =p

Edit2: Just curious, do ya have MSN or any other messengers?

Now would be the time to get it. This is a lot of posts just between you and me. I'm going to go eat, but are there any free messengers that I can pick up? Never used any of that...

MSN is pretty cool and free

MSN.com

Have fun eating, I'm training up to Blue Mage =p





Ooh, one small problem, it's still named Calculator. Nothing important, just letting you know. Lost one of my Knights training but meh, he wasn't as important =p

Ack. You might have gone a little too far with Meliadoul. She's going to be absolutely brutal. Night Sword and Dark Sword are Troublesome. They're so damn good.

My list for T.G Cid would have been

-Stasis Sword
-Crush Punch
-Shellbust Stab
-Night Sword (toned down. If this will hurt Gaffy too much, maybe give him a better weapon?)
-Magic Ruin

Destroy Sword is a crazy set and giving all of those skills to him is a bit much. At least MP is an easily replenishable commodity. I could see Destroy Sword being vaguely appropriate if it broke stats by 2 but 3-5? That's pushing it.

Oh yeah, I'd leave Split Punch with Mel because it's not crazily powerful (compared to its competition anyway) and it is a far better visual match with the rest of her skills.

Nice call on improving dictionaries. And for letting Mediator equip them. Would a WP boost be appropriate too?

Finally, I think I misunderstood what you were trying to achieve by including Jump +1. Did you include it for horizontal jumping? If so I have to ask: horizontal jumping clears jump stat/2 panels, yeah? So If I have an even numbered jump stat, say 4, and I use Jump +1 to bring it to 5, will my horizontal jump be rounded up to 3 panels? If not, you could probably include one of the higher jumps. Since you took out ignore height, I wouldn't object to any of them.

Jump 4 + Jump+1 = 2 Horizontal

Jump 4 + Jump+1 + Spike Boots = 3 Horizontal

It truncates it, so 5 = 2 and 6 = 3

I did modify the calc sprite to make a male blue mage (uncompleted) should I look more into it? It's buggy since it's loading a sprite of calc during attack animation and formation screen still has calc. Probably just a new image I need to find. I took a knight and made it FFV style.

Only if it isn't a whole lot of work. Looks are the least of my concerns, but eventually I will want to fix the sprites and text.

To all:

I found a problem with my spreadsheet and I am fixing it. Apparently there is a problem with calculating the patch/codes, so my recent changes weren't added. Because of this, there are discrepancies between what I say Blue Mage has and what it actually has (skillset-wise).

QuoteAck. You might have gone a little too far with Meliadoul. She's going to be absolutely brutal. Night Sword and Dark Sword are Troublesome. They're so damn good.

My list for T.G Cid would have been

-Stasis Sword
-Crush Punch
-Shellbust Stab
-Night Sword (toned down. If this will hurt Gaffy too much, maybe give him a better weapon?)
-Magic Ruin

Destroy Sword is a crazy set and giving all of those skills to him is a bit much. At least MP is an easily replenishable commodity. I could see Destroy Sword being vaguely appropriate if it broke stats by 2 but 3-5? That's pushing it.

Oh yeah, I'd leave Split Punch with Mel because it's not crazily powerful (compared to its competition anyway) and it is a far better visual match with the rest of her skills.

Nice call on improving dictionaries. And for letting Mediator equip them. Would a WP boost be appropriate too?

-Yep, you are right. I "unbroke" Orlandu and broke Meliadoul. How thoughtless of me

-Are you saying that this is TG Cid's total set? I guess it could work... lemme think on it. Night Sword cannot be toned down with my current tools, so I think that it should just go away for now

-Destroy Sword.... oh right. That's why TG Cid didn't have it originally. I'd like to hear what others have to say about Destroy Sword. What do you (the reader) think about having access to Destroy Sword?

-I'm leaning toward changing Dark Sword to attack a single panel and have a formula of PA*WP. Since Gafgarion never uses it, I can just remove it from everyone and make it into Meliadoul's non-break equip attack.  Does it need a special effect to go with it?

-Glad you like the dictionary idea. WP may be boosted, but I have to see it in action first.

-Yeah that's Cid's total set. I wanted to have a part of each set and that's as reasonable as I could make it.

-I'd be all for Destroy Sword if its effects were temporary

-Don't have to change Dark Sword. It does something unique. But yeah, I remembered if we take it Away from Cid, we won't have anyone who can/will use it. I wanted to stop Cid from making the other special knight classes redundant while forgetting that there is no other Dark Knight class properly available to the player. Stupid me. What if Cid's list was:

Stasis Sword
Crush Punch
Shellbust Stab
Night Sword
Dark Sword
Power Ruin (and god help us all)

im not so sure about that. Yes, destroy sword is good, however remember that it is only 2v0 which means you will rarely get more than one person with it at once. It also has a charge time and mp cost, and battle skill has more stat reduction with 2 swords, and more range with ranged weapons. Finally each turn that orlandu uses it is a turn he is not killing the enemy, which he can often do.

We'll see. The title "All Swordskill" seems to scream "Look at me! I'm broken!!!" It's a difficult thing to balance TG Cid...

Although I did originally add it to Meliadoul... isn't Night Sword kinda broken? I'm not sure it should stay on TG Cid. Better Destroy Sword than Night Sword, with it's kill-heal abilities. Knight Swords are just too powerful to keep Night Sword from being broken. Sigh...

IMHO, If Orlandu has horrible MP and can't equip robes, plus average-low PA... I doubt he'd be a threat anymore. He'd have to constantly use Dark Sword or get MP Healed by someone.

You know, like Tellah that can't even cast Meteo because he lacks MP.

Both are awfully old turds.

Okay, sounds fine. Btw, What do you think about Night Sword? And should Holy Swordsman equip Armor, Clothes, or Both?

Quote from: "Zodiac"I did modify the calc sprite to make a male blue mage (uncompleted) should I look more into it? It's buggy since it's loading a sprite of calc during attack animation and formation screen still has calc. Probably just a new image I need to find. I took a knight and made it FFV style.

i want to see it!

Quote from: "Zodiac"IMHO, If Orlandu has horrible MP and can't equip robes, plus average-low PA... I doubt he'd be a threat anymore. He'd have to constantly use Dark Sword or get MP Healed by someone.

You know, like Tellah that can't even cast Meteo because he lacks MP.

Both are awfully old turds.

wait, wait i tought that it was MA affecting swordskills... or i'm wrong?

Want to make Night Sword weaker?
Weapon Range, MP cost, formula 07 (well the same as the blood sword/bloody strings). That formula should give the normal attack formula of the weapon + drain. That means you wouldn't get PA*WP with knight swords on Night Sword but rather the usual PA*WP*brave/100 formula.
I could add in affected by evasion but I suppose those restrictions would still make it a very decent skill to use.

For Dark Sword? I dunno... draining MP is awfully cheap, especially if it's instant cast.

No doubt I'd only give access to Armor for Holy Swordsman.

I'd prefer a non draining skill for Meliadoul as she would suck against the undead. Making one out of the 2 free effect is highly doable.

Probably Zankusen (Air Cut Flash or something) with a PA*WP formula and low JP cost.

Hey, not bad idea for Night Sword. I'll have to look at Gafgarion though.

If I added a new skill for Meliadoul, wouldn't I also need a new animation? Where would I get/put that?

Well, there are 2 unused Effects

Effects = Animation + Sound. Linking an ability to an effect file is easy.

Hell, you could even use Worker 8's megaton punch it uses on Musty.

Wouldn't that look cool with a sword strike? The unused ones are rather fast, and not catchy.  :roll:

Quote from: "karsten"wait, wait i tought that it was MA affecting swordskills... or i'm wrong?

Other than Destroy Sword, you're wrong. They're all PA & WP based.

Where would I go to link the skill with an animation and a sound?

As for the name I dunno, perhaps Meca Stab, Wind Sword, Blitz Punch...

Or maybe just "Mighty Sword"

After consulting the BMG, I'm somewhat in agreement with Prinny God about Destroy Sword. But I still think Orlandu needs to be weakened in accordance with Zodiac's suggestion or thereabouts.

Would there be an easy way of just reducing the amount of MP that Dark Sword drains? If you control Orlandu's potency it could turn out to be a very inoffensive move.

Right now, the only substitute I have for Dark Sword is the Aspel formula: Drain (T_MaxMP * X/100) MP. Leaving it alone for now.

All Swordskill
Stasis Sword
Blastar Punch
Night Sword - Weapon formula damage (dunno about range yet, Gaf needs to be looked at)
Magic Ruin
Speed Ruin
Power Ruin
Mind Ruin

Mighty Sword has (Blitz Sword) skill. This does PA*WP without breaking anything. Haven't made it yet.

It'll be too troublesome to explain so I'll just do it and give your name ability but I'll have to modify 2 files... What was the point of using a different file for battle and the formation screen? What a waste of space.

I noticed that when I created Dejeon... The name was displayed in battle but not outside.

Yay!

Did phil ever add in a skill like this? I don't remember it happening for some reason...

http://www.fileden.com/files/436/Blitz%20Sword.rar

Just for the darn name & Effect

Edit skill between Meteor & Blind. IIRC it's 0x2D.

Add it to all Meliadoul's skillsets, patch all this crap and it should work 100% correctly except for things like the description of the ability and such.

I'd suggest giving the name directly in the Excel workbook (name sheet) to easily notice the skill.

Phil probably did create a new skill but with an Effect that Freeze/Crashes the game. In fact, it's either that or he used an Effect like Summon Demon, Altima's Teleport, or such. Which would be funny as a sword skill.  :?

That's good, it works!

Only problem is, it starts the animation with cast magic instead of a slash. How do I change that? I set it on Weapon Strike, but it had no effect...

Dang.  :?

Do you have damage displayed? I remember many Effects negating that.

Also does Miluda just casts or then strikes with her sword?

-no damage displayed

-no slash afterwards, just swift explosion

ah, CRAP...

This sucks >_>'

Going through BATTLE.BIN but all I found until now is useless.

Well, it does work, so if you can't find it, we'll just have to ignore the fact that Meliadoul isn't actually casting magic, despite her raising her hands up and generating power. The lack of numbers is also easily overlooked.

the blue mage spell list in the game is different than the one you have posted. Ive only been able to try a couple skills, but wind spirit is doing 100~damage with 6 ma, ive seen as low as 80 and as hight as 120 with the same ma. An if anyone is wondering, it seems that blue mage cannot learn  "blue mage style"  monster abilities.

And that's because I have technical difficulties. Thanks for pointing it out though.

And no, I did not make it so that Blue Mage can learn Blue Mage style. However, when I typed that last sentence, I realized how stupid it would be to not have that feature. Beta1.1 should be done in about 3 hours, so I'll correct everything then.

Your welcome, i had guessed that it was a mistake, but i didn't want you to miss it because no one had mentioned it.

since we are on the subject might i add a suggestion. Couldn't you make the blue mage list hidden like zodiac and ultima, so that its true to other blue magic from other FFs. Again is simply a suggestion, as i am not personally invested either way.

I can definitely have Ultima 2 be on there, since it is only available... what, the last/ second-last battle? The set is pretty full, I can only put one more skill on there as of now. I already plan on taking off Beaking just because it doesn't quite fit.

Wind Soul is definitely a problem at low levels. I think I have a fix. I'll post the new patch along with a bug topic.

Ack. No learning and no hidden move set for Blue Magic please. That'll just be a major annoyance.

Err... you'll have to explain to me how that is. You can still learn them normally...

Btw, the hidden skill might as well not even be there! When can you learn Ultima 2 anyway?

Right now I'm thinking about adding the Chicken Sword, but I have to make sure that no one is wielding the weapon. Which sword should be changed? It'll be like Nagrarock but with add: Chicken instead of add: Frog. They be teh funny weapons!

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Err... you'll have to explain to me how that is. You can still learn them normally...

Btw, the hidden skill might as well not even be there! When can you learn Ultima 2 anyway?

Right now I'm thinking about adding the Chicken Sword, but I have to make sure that no one is wielding the weapon. Which sword should be changed? It'll be like Nagrarock but with add: Chicken instead of add: Frog. They be teh funny weapons!

Oh. I misunderstood everything

Just pick a sword that is made completely redundant by another.

I'll have to make sure also that no enemies automatically have it equipped

Example: Change Long Sword -> Wizard Mantle
--Battle on the Bridge: Knight has Wizard Mantle equipped in hand

Trust me, it has happened. It won't be a big deal once I add the ENTD4.ENT patch, since I can remove/equip whatever I choose.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"I can definitely have Ultima 2 be on there, since it is only available... what, the last/ second-last battle? The set is pretty full, I can only put one more skill on there as of now. I already plan on taking off Beaking just because it doesn't quite fit.

Wind Soul is definitely a problem at low levels. I think I have a fix. I'll post the new patch along with a bug topic.

What i ment was to make the entire skill set hidden, not to add a move like Ultima 2. Think about it, in past games blue mages could only learn by being hit by the ability. I can understand if you dont want to do this, but thats what i meant by my previous post.

Chocobo meteor only shows the attack animation and damage for one enemy. When blue mage uses wave around the attack is hanging for 2-3 seconds on the last enemy hit, but i have only tried it while attacking 2 enemies. Calm spirit is still caster immune but i dont know if that is intentional or not.

should we make a new thread for glitches and suggestions?

-That could work, but the nature of this game makes that kinda... I dunno. Only if everyone else REALLY wants it.

-Just mention any glitches in the Beta files page. I probably won't be too quick to fix it if it's just looks

I have problems with some of your changes...

First:
Lamia harp shouldn't cast Ultima. In fact, it should inflict nifty bad statuses.

Probably Don't Act, adding in poison could be OK too...

Second:
Ever tried blocking something with a spear? They are made to stab. No way you can easily block with those. I'd give them 15-20% max.


And suggestions that I forgot mentioning:

Make Ultima decent. 60-80MP cost while being STRONG; No shit.

Give Monsters Status immunities. Every monsters are extremely weak agaisnt zodiacs because they can just cast Nightmare on 'em.
And Oracle + Paralyze = Monster pwn'ed

Just give them enough so that there is an actual advantage to using them.

And to think a bomb can be soaked with oil; ROFL!  

Bah. that's what I was talking about re the hidden movelist. It has always been a stupid idea to give no hint about which spells are learnable. It was tedious enough in traditional FF games; can you imagine what it will be like in Tactics?

- Casting magic seemed like the way to go, but I can certainly switch it to status effect on the Harp

- Really? No, I've never tried blocking with any type of weapon. I'm guessing Sticks are the same way?

- Are you talking about Ramza's Ultima? I guess since it comes in during chapter 4...

- Definitely overlooked Monster immunities

Depends, wooden stick can be quite fast for blocking. BUt the ones made from metal would be too heavy. We're talking of FFT here (long sticks only) so only non-metal sticks could get average-good evade %.

Just so you know: the tip of a spear is always made of steel (Of course, there are bamboo spears, but they break easily with hard hits). So, when holding the weapon, the weight is much higher because it is located at the tip of the weapon. Therefore just raising the tip of a spear quickly requires a lot of strength. That's mainly why they were uses on horses. Because you can hardly move the spear, the horse is very helpful as all its running power is transmitted to the spear during the impact.

Spears: low %
Metal Sticks (if any): low %
other Sticks: average to high %

Quote from: "Zodiac"I have problems with some of your changes...

First:
Lamia harp shouldn't cast Ultima. In fact, it should inflict nifty bad statuses.

Probably Don't Act, adding in poison could be OK too...

in square games Lamias usually Drain life and causes charm.... so i think it would be more fitting

D'oh, my memory is rusty I was sure they were annoying enemies inflicting Paralysis on my chars >_>'

Ah well.

Quote from: "Zodiac"Depends, wooden stick can be quite fast for blocking. BUt the ones made from metal would be too heavy. We're talking of FFT here (long sticks only) so only non-metal sticks could get average-good evade %.

Just so you know: the tip of a spear is always made of steel (Of course, there are bamboo spears, but they break easily with hard hits). So, when holding the weapon, the weight is much higher because it is located at the tip of the weapon. Therefore just raising the tip of a spear quickly requires a lot of strength. That's mainly why they were uses on horses. Because you can hardly move the spear, the horse is very helpful as all its running power is transmitted to the spear during the impact.

Spears: low %
Metal Sticks (if any): low %
other Sticks: average to high %

Tell that to Kilik or Seong Mi-na (I consider Naginata some kind of Spear)...

<_<

Anyway, I agree with hidden Blue Magic and not learnable thru JP, just like Ultima or Zodiac.

Naginata = Slashing
Spear = Stabbing

However the design is between the sword and the spear... more spearish.

Yeah they were made light but there ain't no naginata in FFT. =)

Well to be honest, the spear might not be that bad for blocking. since the tip is heavier, it actually gives it a harder slash down, and could surprise the other person and knock his weapon out of his hand

I'll probably reduce spear W.Ev, but I want to see how this works out...

if you're going to make one, have it lower the brave not just add:chicken otherwise the effect will vanish as soon as the unit takes a turn.

Fix Protect/Shell bug.
I never found Protect 2 worth it for +2 vertical tolerance while chance of inflicting it was 57% instead of 85%.

If I can, I probably will also make it lower brave, but changing to chicken for half a turn can still be useful...

If by fix the bug you mean increase chance of success, I have already boosted it to 240. Otherwise, you must clarify.

=o D'oh, I don't remember reading that.

Yeah, a Chicken Sword with a chance of -10 or -5 or so Brave with Add: Chicken would be fun to play around with

Yeah, I've looked at it, and I don't think I can do both. Maybe I'll just make it have a chance to lower brave by ~50.

That would be a little cruel on your team, you'd have people leaving cause of their permanent brave being too low. Is it not possible to put two statuses? Something like Chicken and Return2 to give the full benefit of the turn?

I think I'd need an ability that adds both at the same time. Lower brave is not a status effect, so I'd need an ability to be cast, and that ability needs to do two things. Consequently, I could make the Chicken Sword a rare item so that only your team has access to it. Then I could make it Nagrarock's equal.

Here an idea that im not sure you can do, but would be interesting if you can. What if mime could mime all moves, including when the enemies attack. Of course you might want to keep some moves unmime-able like self destruct.

Mime all moves you say? Only thing I have ability to change right now is what  skills can be mimed.
Changing who the Mime mimes might be difficult/impossible.

I think the mime is rather fine as he is...

Maybe a lil better MA mult.

Mime more stuff? Maybe. Definantely only mime generic stuff (no mime Lightning Stab or Scream please).

Wasn't someone planning to do this? I can't remember:

Giving special characters a decent amount of jobs unlocked so that they don't look like shit compared to job leveled generics.

You always have to train them like hell for them to get good supportive skills with all those new MP cost skills.

Gaffy lvl4 BM
Agrias lvl4 WM
Musty lvl5 Chemist
Rafalak lvl1 Ninja
Orlandu lvl2 Samurai

and so on...

Wouln't that be great?

Orlandu should be Level 1 All Swordsman. No need more stuff for him.

Agrias could have Geo opened when she joins.

High level Chemist for Musty is nice.

Cloud should NOT join on level 1.

Wasn't Cid supposed to be toned down much?

He will be/is. Haven't distinguished what I have done and what I will do very well, but Orlandu will not be incredibly awesome in Beta2.

I guess I had better make Cloud Lv10 or something. >.>
Oh, and should I leave Cloud's multipliers really high? I toned them down because he had 120+ in both MA and PA, but if he's the last secret character one gets, perhaps he should have those nice multipliers. I did make his skills better, since they used to be atrocious.

What about Gained JP Up? Should I remove that from special characters and give guys like Mustadio lv5 Chemist, etc. or should they have both the JLvs and the JP ability?

His stats are already kinda lame,  and you lowered them even more?

I'd increase his MA, he is a freaking male which the main class is based on MA, for christ sake!

He does have a higher growth, but that's not enoght. 135~ Mult for him.

Are you making his skills sword need? Or keep with M Blade?

Lame stats? He has better stats than a Geomancer! More PA, more MA, more MP, and more HP (though the HPC is 1 higher). How can those stats be lame!?

I guess MAM should be the same/higher, but I gave him innate Two Hands. That skill might be out of place though now that I made Limit require any type of sword. Materia Blade has bonuses, but it's not necessary for any activation now.

You should put as primary job command the primary job abilities for zodiacs for example:

Original FFT

Queklain

Fear
Impure

Should be

Queklain

Impure
Fear

Only a suggest

How does that affect anything? Would he not still have the same skills? Nowhere can the player see the order in which his skill sets are given. It makes no difference.

Can the soundtrack of the game be Changed?

Because the answer is yes that REALLY would be great....

Imagine Queen, AC/DC and others in FFT...

I've got a great idea. You would make elemental shots for mustadio!!!! If you created blitz sword you could do this without problem. Like the shots of the gunners in FFTA. And you have all that effects to play with.


Confushot
Boltshot
Fireshot
Iceshot
Charmshot
Blidshot

Etc....

to make mustadio mor versatile and more fun

Only a suggest

QuoteCan the soundtrack of the game be Changed?

Because the answer is yes that REALLY would be great....

Imagine Queen, AC/DC and others in FFT...

I'm sure with lots of testing, it could, but that's one of the last things on my list.

As for new shots for Mustadio, maybe. Note, however, that Zodiac made the effect and name for me for Blitz Sword. Mustadio's class, despite having only three skills, is quite useful. I boosted his % success for all skills, so he should be good. Chances are, though, that it will look like magic as does Blitz Sword. Keep in mind that I only have a limited number of slots that I can add skills to.

I <3 the FFT soundtrack, don't change it. If you don't like it, play with the sound off and use WMP =p

Mmmm, i didn't Know That.... What are the number of skills you can create exactly?

MM, IIRC there are 12-13 free slots for action abilities.

So.... we have to think what new skills we have to create


A talk Skill with the White Talk Cloud

Not to start a fight but to make some room for new classes, one class the can be replaced is oracle.  All of their abilities are had by the mediator without the charge time and magic usage. If need be, go back to early Final Fantasies and split those abilities between the white and black mages.

Talk skill with the White Talk Cloud? If I understand you correctly, I haven't seen that animation.

I'm not really attached to any classes besides Geomancer and Samurai; however, I dunno how much approval you would get with that idea. That set is fairly unique, like Spell Absorb and Life Drain. In case you didn't know, Black and White Magic don't have much room left in the sets. IIRC, it's 15 max and both are either at the max or one away. I will admit, however, that Beowulf completely owns Oracle.

Besides, we don't really have any good classes to replace them, except Necromancer maybe, because the new ones are for guys like Rad.

Yeah, Beow is sooo effective against multiple enemies :P

One thing I'd like to see is... Everyone having Item terciary (does that word exist?) innately, and kick Chemist out of the job tree.

Though, I doubt it'd be possible.

Well if Oracle is to stay, maybe the CT of the spells should be lowered.  It shouldn't take 7 turns for a CHANCE at a status effect.  

I have to admit, I'm kinda fond of powerpole extend myself.

Oh right, Beowulf does have that limitation.

It's tertiary, and making Item a tertiary skill is about on par with making Weapon Guard a support ability. I'd also have to find a way to make all the item skills not require that one learn them to use them. Dunno how I'd go about doing that. Trying to make Defend work like Item doesn't work by itself.

I let Blue Mage use Sticks, should that be changed? Oracle isn't the only one that can do it.

Which spell are you talking about chuck? Skills like Blind and Silence Song are faster than all black magic. Skills like Petrify are slow, but you know how useful Petrifying units is.

First, please don't give everyone item. Imagine enemies with a neverending supply of phoenix downs and elixirs, scary.  Besides If all my people had access to item. I'd never loose a battle or a unit.  I think sleep, don't move/act may be a little slow.  Maybe the percentages pale in comparison to monsters that makes it seem so slow.  Enemies can petrify you, stop you or knock you out in an instant but an oracle has to wait for a chance to inflict status.  Maybe nothing is wrong with oracle, but to me they pale in comparison to the other mage classes and especially to Beowulf.  I can imagine anyone using oracle or ying yang magic at the end of the game.  I'm just b**chin' but I don't know a solution to this problem.  Maybe it's just me but oracle could use some help, maybe immunity to status effects.  Please anyone give some feedback.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Lame stats? He has better stats than a Geomancer! More PA, more MA, more MP, and more HP (though the HPC is 1 higher). How can those stats be lame!?

I guess MAM should be the same/higher, but I gave him innate Two Hands. That skill might be out of place though now that I made Limit require any type of sword. Materia Blade has bonuses, but it's not necessary for any activation now.

Yeah he had better multipliers, but it was equalized by bad equips. Now that his Ma is average and limit has been weaken, would be crazy to use soldier. Geomancer now has a higher Ma and can equip robes and shields so you can have 3 more ma there.

I just got cloud so ill test out his limits eventually and see if my hypothesis holds true.

An additional thought, perhaps you can give a couple of clouds skills some vert tolerance.

soldier have finishing touch. don't forget. you never use anything beside that move.

Oh yeah, whoops. He needs his 120 MA back. But it was just his MA when the 'bad stats' problem came up, right? I'm thinking either he needs less PA, or Two Hands needs to hit the deck. He can wield Knight Swords now, however, so take that into consideration.

I definitely didn't do his skill set justice. Who'd use Braver when it is the weakest and only hits one enemy? Some of his other skills may need vertical tolerance, but we'll see.

As for the Oracle, maybe a boost in success? Adding a status is useful, but if it only works like 60% of the time, it's a real gamble. What's the support on your Oracle? By the end of the game, most of them have something like Short Charge. I'm not sure that Magic Attack Up helps a whole lot with this type of magic. I'll look into your problem.

Oh and about making Item tertiary, I like to find out whether an option is possible for testing the validity of the option. I'm not so worried about the enemies eternally reviving each other with items. I'd probably set Elixir to about lv60, so that anyone who gets his party level up that high will have to deal with enemies tossing Elixirs around. What I'm worried about is being able to revive your units with any character you choose. I guess classes like White Mage could get a boost because of that.

I'm assuming that anyone on this forum is a FFT vet.  Ask yourself an honest question,

"If everyone has access to item in your party, with the level of strategy you currently have, would you lose a battle?'

My answer is probably not.  I admire the work everyone is putting in but my biggest fear is to turn FFT to FFT advance.

As far as oracle is concerned, boosting the success % is a great idea.

Cloud is just weird to me.  He seems to be a physical class but his Limits are MA based.  Seems like they should be PA based.

Oh, it's still quite possible to lose a battle, especially if I boost the enemies more than they have been boosted. But then it would be more of a "rush next to your units so that you can revive them" type game. At least Chocobos would be more valuable for getting next to the dead ones. >.>
Of course, I'd have to boost the price of all items by a whole lot. Nevertheless, it would throw many things out of whack and since I'd have to put quite a bit of work into it to find out how to make it work, I'll leave it alone. Not to mention that this does nothing to help the monster population.

I dunno about Cloud. His attacks should be PA based, but then again...?

I'll look at Oracle's skills a bit more now. I'm sure boosting the Success of skills like Don't Move and Don't Act couldn't hurt. I'm not so sure about Petrify, Sleep, or Life Drain though.

I agree with petrify. It should not be in the "blaster" range when it comes to success percentages.

I think that Item for everyone would actually INCREASE the difficulty.

Enemies rarely ever have item. When they do, they have level 1 or 2 chemist. So, we won't be seeing PD flying around easily... though, with everyone with access to Item (Throw Item should still be Support from some class, maybe Squire) enemies would actually revive their fallen allies.

About the Oracle... I think they could get a higher MA, TM or Summoner maybe.

Also, they are the most melee oriented mage class... so, why keep the usual Cev (5%)? Give them 15%?

Faster resolve for spells? Yeah... could be.

About Petrify Success rates... It has a higher range (4 vs 3) than blaster, no annoying V tolerance, no chance of inflicting Stop instead of Petrify, and, depending on the level and Fa, has a higher chance.

About Cloud... Braver could get a range boost maybe? Maybe a Speed one too.

I see your case for Item, but until I find a way to actually do that, we'll leave that on the burner. Oracle will get a boost in MA and possibly CEv.

Braver: probably just a range boost

About adding extra jobs, it sounds as though it would be pretty damn difficult to expand the job wheel. A sneaky way of doing it might be making some new jobs invite-only with the typical replacement of the Squire. So for example, in some places there might be a random encounter with a unit that has the job "Bandit" instead of Squire. You could technically get as many of them as you like, you just wouldn't also have access to the Squire with those particular units.

Invite only classes sounds pretty good. I'll see what I can do.

Yeah, I like that idea too.

Only problem would be sprites...

not a bad  idea... what about putting them in story battle too?

If you were to give that rogue Knight ally at Zeklaus Desert his own class, the sprite could just be the normal knight with but with long hair and a beard or something. Whetever suggests that he's been wandering on his own. I don't know what his skillset would be though. Just an example.

What story battles would make good candidates for special classes?

Quote from: "Asmo X"If you were to give that rogue Knight ally at Zeklaus Desert his own class, the sprite could just be the normal knight with but with long hair and a beard or something. Whetever suggests that he's been wandering on his own. I don't know what his skillset would be though. Just an example.

What story battles would make good candidates for special classes?

can be nice,but...... you can't invite him.

Well yes, that's certainly a salient piece of information.

At any rate, how much room is there for new jobs? I notice on the BMG that a lot of classes seem to be truncated versions of others. For instance, the undead generics. If they were to just use the normal corresponding set (for instance Black Magic instead of the special undead Black Magic set) would that give us room to fiddle with new classes?

Quote from: "karsten"can be nice,but...... you can't invite him.

If I find in which entd the secret battles are stored, that can be changed, either by making him an enemy to invite, or making him join at the end of the event.

I think there's about 10 or 15, maybe more since I think some classes are NEVER used in the game (Wizard that can equip everything, etc.)

All rare battles are #5 and are very rarely located at the same place in the ENTDs.

Just search for Zeklaus in the page I made and find S5 or N5; I have no idea which it is.

Could you create more space by getting rid of doubled classes?  Like there's two versions of Dark Knight, I assume a Guest and Enemy version, could you reduce it to just one?

Probably, though I have more job spaces than skill spaces. Unless someone comes up with many classes that use the same skills as original classes, I won't need to do that.

With all the work being done with new classes and altering current characters, will the next patch be sigma 1.2, 2.0 or a new project all together?

About new classes, is it possible to add more monster-type characters? Or will that mean sacrificing current monsters to make room?

As long as someone makes new sprites, I can make a few new classes. The spare slots are limited because I will change something like Mustadio's other, but exactly the same?, class to the monster and the corresponding sprite to the new sprite. I also have to figure out how the Formation screen sprites work, because they are saved in .bin files, not .spr files.

Mustadio in Zaland has Maintence (so that his gun wouldn't be broken). That's the only difference.

Gaffgarion as ally and as enemy... only difference is that as ally he has less imunities than as enemy.

You can also use the job sets of the "dead" allies for new characters/jobs. I used Delita's Sis job set "Magic" and changed the moves and used it for the Arc Witch.

The other two dead characters are Alma pretty much in the last battle and Malak in the last battle of the 3rd Chapter.

I don't think the problem is with slots needed for jobs, but with slots needed for abilities.  Am I right in assuming this?

Unless we make many 'Red Mage' type characters, you are correct. I could fuse a few skills (like Protect and Clam Spirit) but none of this is a problem at the moment. Sure, there are a couple of new classes, like Necromancer and Mystic Knight, but even once I make a complete set for both of those (which may take a while: new skills are tricky to make) that fills up a total of two extra job slots out of the dozen or so that are empty. Because of this, job slots are not of much concern right now, and since no more can be readily added to the job wheel...

So did you run into trouble with the invite-only jobs?

Monster-type characters give you a little more control over the balance. Since they can't switch classes or equip anything you might be able to find fair ways of implementing the more powerful moves like Teleport 2/Warp.

I can't test this, but...

What if we make Undead pals be imune to both Crystal and Treasure? I think that'd make them 100% revive... which would be fun.

If it is possible, making not the monsters, but the status, then it would be even better.

Quote from: "Asmo X"So did you run into trouble with the invite-only jobs?

Monster-type characters give you a little more control over the balance. Since they can't switch classes or equip anything you might be able to find fair ways of implementing the more powerful moves like Teleport 2/Warp.

Nah, I know you suggested invite-only classes, but you will have to be more specific. I know how to make more room if I need to, but I need to know what you want the said class to do. Though since listing skillsets and stats would convolute this topic, why don't we post detailed info in the "New Challenger has arrived" topic?
http://auritech.byethost13.com/viewtopic.php?t=71

Argg0: Probably. I believe I can make Undead override Crystal and Treasure just like Undead overrides Reraise. I'm not sure what will happen if the random number tells the Undead guy not to revive though... Hopefully he will just revive anyway?

haha. I wait for you to confirm whether it's possible and you're waiting for us for job suggestions. We need need corporate memos or something.

lol, forgot to mention that part, didn't I? Yeah, for the most part, though I'll need new sprites, but they don't have to be anything too different from the original classes.

oh yeah, I forgot to ask.

If a job needs a level 2 Squire to unlock but I have a Holy Swordsman, does the game say what you actually need is level 2 of your base class or does it preserve each job type separately? In other words does it say "this job needs level 2 Squire or level 2 Holy Swordsman or Level 2 Divine Knight etc etc"..

The game treats special base classes the same as Squire for unlocking purposes IIRC. If I find otherwise, I'll let you know.

In regards to making new sprites I don't believe it too hard to create new ones. Just take pre-existing ones and modify them. I created a pretty nice Blue Mage by just modifying the Calculator sprite.

Unfortunately my comp had a pretty bad error and I'm waiting for my CD to get it fixed again but when I do I will post it on here and see what people think.

Oh man, just think of the work if we had to make a game from scratch. [Shudders]

Yeah I couldn't imagine doing that although I'm sure custom made programs are used to make that process easier.

suggestions? i didnt read everything here but what about a magic sword other than the temple knights juiced up oracle skills?

physical attack combined with the elemental magics like firesword, ice sword etc... would it be possible to create those skills with the existing gfx we have at hand and still show the sword slash animation as well?

Magic Sword requires the ability to make new formulas. We do not have that ability yet.

yeah i figured as much, still.. if it ever does become available i think itll be a fine idea.

Assuming that I can change the axe and flail formula in the future, what should each be based on? I was thinking about making flails and axes having the same formula, except for axes being dependent on brave. If axes are changed to be random, but with a smaller range, I still want them to be better than swords for things like Battle Skill.

Oh, and Karsten: you said you were working on your own patch right? Which equips did you change into the 'Fury' equipment? Or did you just put in a Berserker class? Either way, I'm not sure whether I should make them all appear late or stagger them.

Would it be possible to have flails increase in damage every time you hit something? I sort of like the idea of a weapon that gains momentum like that.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Assuming that I can change the axe and flail formula in the future, what should each be based on? I was thinking about making flails and axes having the same formula, except for axes being dependent on brave. If axes are changed to be random, but with a smaller range, I still want them to be better than swords for things like Battle Skill.

Oh, and Karsten: you said you were working on your own patch right? Which equips did you change into the 'Fury' equipment? Or did you just put in a Berserker class? Either way, I'm not sure whether I should make them all appear late or stagger them.

my post here got deleted? :/ i had a list of all the changes i made

whatever, i made a berserker out of mime. start berserk, always berserk. high multiplyers, added inherent attack up and any ground. i was unable to have it equip anything tought.

Quote from: "Asmo X"Would it be possible to have flails increase in damage every time you hit something? I sort of like the idea of a weapon that gains momentum like that.

So, you mean to say that by the end of the battle, flail would be doing tons of damage? If so, that's really complicated.


And for some reason, my last couple of posts died too. >.<

Shame. But really, won't you come to a point where changing the weapon formulas isn't actually helping to distinguish them? I feel like there might have to be some sweeping changes to some categories. Like ones that hit multiple targets or some strange ones that might do a positive status plus damage. A weapon that hits for big damage but "enrages" the opponent adding PA+1 would be interesting.

My problem with axes and flails is merely the ENORMOUS range of damage they can do. Here's what I was thinking:

 Knife - PA:Sp based, weak w/ negative status effects, adds speed to user
Nj swd - PA:Sp based, medium power
 Sword - PA based, medium w/ several having elemental attributes
 Lance - PA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H
Kn swd - PA:Br based, strong but requires 2H, adds positive statii to user
Katana - PA:Br based, medium (w/ chance to cast respective DRAW OUT skill?)
   Axe - PA:Br based, strong but unstable dmg  ([PA*Br/100]*[WP-F], F= 1...5)
Hammer - PA based, medium but unstable dmg and casts skills (like power break)
   Rod - PA based, weak w/ strengthen:element, can cast magic on hit
 Staff - MA based, weak w/ strengthen:holy (White Magic is now holy elemental)
 Stick - MA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H
   Bag - PA based, medium w/ unstable damage, grants stat boosts
 Cloth - PA:MA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H

 RANGE WPNS
   Gun - WP based only, very long-range <woot magic gun for faith based wpn!>
LngBow - PA:Sp based, medium w/ long-range but requires 2H
  Xbow - PA based, medium
  Harp - PA:MA based, weak w/ negative status, adds positive statii to user
Dctnry - PA:MA based, weak w/ random spells on hit


I suppose there isn't much variety; however, don't forget to factor in class availability!

Yeah that doesn't sound too bad. Ninja sword kind of gets the bone though. Katana sounds pretty darn good but Im guessing you'll restrict that to Squire and Samurai right?

Hm, what about the supportive Draw Outs? Or would you just leave those out?

Even thought its only a 25% chance, that may be too good for katana. Supportive Draw Outs cause a problem with previous plan. Maybe the user will get the respective Draw Out? (Murasame adds Regen to user, etc.)

What exactly does 'gets the bone' mean? Ninja swords will be just purely offensive. Considering they are partly based on Speed, Ninja will do lots of damage with them.

Yeah never mind what I said

Also, I can't remember: did you change the Mediator's and other relevant skills so that there is no way to increase brave?

I was looking for a change in the brave cap first, but until I can do so brave/faith changing is out. (still can do faith/innocent statii)

Honestly, I think it's a good idea to not be able to change brave or faith, especially if you're going to have weapon power partly based on one of them. It also gives the player an incentive to look for good units in battle or at the soldier office.

Perhaps if I just find the 'change after battle' boolean, I can just turn that off. Then we could have +/- 30 brave and faith skills.

Just a few suggestions I have:
Take invitation away from Ramza's squire class- invitation is an extremely useful ability that is easily capable of changing the tide of a battle just by being used on one enemy, and it's arguably the best ability the mediator class has. I think giving it to Ramza can make the game too easy, plus he has enough perks as is. If you want to add something else to him I would suggest giving him levels 1-3 of a magic spell like bolt. Bolt 1 for chap 1, bolt 2 for chaps 2-3 and bolt 3 for chap 4. As long as his magic attack isn't too high I think this would be a good way to make him unique but not overpowered.

Give dancer/bard the other classes r/s abilities- since only males can be bards they never have the opportunity to learn and use a save and brave up, so I think those abilities should be added to the bard class, and the same thing should go for dancers except they get ma save and face(faith)up

Take hamedo off goblins- I don't think this would be a bad addition if you didn't have to go up against goblins so early on but if you have a group of nothing but squires and chemists and you're up against a group of 3 or so goblins with decent brave (ie sweegy woods) it can get to be a bit much, and I know squires can equip bow guns now but I think most people are going to go for long swords and not want to bother with bow guns until they unlock the archer class. I think a save(or would monsters use ma save? I forget...) or speed save along with counter would be good enough, maybe even both if they could work at the same time, but I'm not sure about that.(and by both I mean a/ma save with speed save not one of those and counter)

Edit: Would giving knights counter be okay? If this works like I think it does then it will give all the generic enemy knights in the game access to it without having to be trained as monks, but I'm probably wrong about that. Plus monks already have hamedo and it would make knights suck a bit less in terms of abilities.

Also I wanted to propose a different leveling system, most people probably won't like it but i'll put it out here just in case. Basically it will make it where one class leads to another instead of having to get job levels from several different classes like instead of needing archer, thief, and geomancer for ninja you'd just need lancer(and thief,archer,and squire but you wouldn't have to bother remembering since it's already been leveled.)
Here's what I have so far:
squire and chemist- no requirements
knight and archer- lvl 3 squire
monk- lvl 3 knight
thief- lvl 3 archer
geomancer- lvl 3(maybe 4) monk
lancer- lvl 3 (maybe 4) thief
samurai- lvl 4 geomancer
ninja- lvl 4 lancer
white and black mages-lvl 3 chemist
mediator- lvl 3 white mage
time mage- lvl 3 black mage
oracle- lvl 3(maybe 4) mediator
blue mage-lvl 3(maybe 4) time mage
bard/dancer- lvl 4 mediator
summoner- lvl 4 blue mage
mime-lvl 8 squire and chemist?
Some of the classes might need to be switched but I think it looks pretty good, and I like it a lot better than the current system.

Also, I think adding wish and yell to the regular squire class might be a decent idea too. Opinions?

Edit numero dos: Geez this post has gotten long, but one more idea:leg aim or arm aim for the thief class, maybe both?

=o

I kinda like the idea of Invitation on the main character, and its really not that accurate. It's certainly not as useful as yell or scream. (Which I would say should be unique to Ramza.)

I probably did forget to give bard and dancer the same r/s abilities. That's a good idea, and I don't see why not. Counter for Knight is fine too.

Hamedo off goblins? Perhaps.  I may have gone overboard with chapter 1 though. (I haven't really done much editing past Zirekile Falls.) Still, this game isn't for beginners, and by your logic, it sounds like you assume it is.

I don't really like the idea of a perfectly linear job system >.>

Well it's not so much that the game is too hard by goblins having hamedo (actually I think it's a good idea), it really only bothered me for the sweegy woods battle since its so early on and there isn't much to choose from besides physical attacks, and I kind of figured the job system idea wouldn't be liked but I thought I'd put it up anyways.

As for invitation I'd put it above Ramza's other abilites even with its success rate. If it were just for that battle it wouldn't really bother me but the main reason I don't like it is the fact that you get to keep the unit you invited after the battle. Why bother spending time to make your own units when you can just invite them as you go along? I always considered the time spent making your own units one of the biggest parts of the game and invite kind of takes away from that. Anyways thats just my two cents if you want to leave it I don't mind

And scream should definitely be unique to Ramza, but I don't think yell would make regular squires too powerful. A couple of speed points here and there don't affect a battle too much especially later in the game. Running around casting it for 20 turns is a totally different story, but if someone's going to bother working that hard to make the game easy they will probably do it anyways. Also what did you think about the leg/arm aim idea? Arm aim might be a bit much, but I think thieves should have a bit more to bring to the table then just stealing especially when classes like monks are so much more interesting to use.

The Steal skill set really is good enough IMO.  I plan on making stealing a spot more useful (which also will make the enemies tougher).  Mustadio really was getting interesting, and I don't want to overshadow him by giving away his excellent skills.

i like mustadio being the only one with those skills too i thought about giving another skill that projects the damage formula 2D (holy sworskillsets) thru the weapon range. ( it looks like the blast that worker 8 has was it compress?) thats a pretty sweet looking skill shot out of a gun.. anyway then when i added Balthier with my own custom "Sky Pirate" set i gave that to him instead as well as a long range coin stealing skill that gives you alot money. (absorb gil) lol

Damn, you know somebody's good at stealing when they don't even have to be next to the person to do it

I'm with Vincent. The only one of those changes that I find appealing are the Dancer/Bard with the same r/s and the Knight getting counter.

The steal set doesn't just net you equipment either. Taking a key enemy's weapon away can be pretty darn handy. Stealing just needs a slight boost in effectiveness.

I'm not sure why I don't know this but if you have equipment stolen during battle do you get it back afterwards?

Nope if it gets stolen or broken its gone.

Yeah I knew broken items disappeared and I'd change that too. This game isn't a dungeon crawler where you have to ration your resources over a long sequence of battles. Each battle in FFT is it's own strategic entity and taking your equipment and shit away for good is just spiteful and annoying.

If you're able to recuperate and get all of your health back at the end of battle, I don't see why there can't be a pretense for repairing broken weapons or retrieving stolen equipment from dead enemies. But then again, this might not be something that can be changed just yet.

If we give the Knight Counter, any other reaction ability will be rendered useless. We already tried innate Weapon Guard for that matter.

Don't take Hamedo off goblins, that will make them near useless against monsters anyway, and this brings me to my idea below. At most, change the sweegy battle.

Free pet early on: People tend to overlook the usefulness of monster, maybe asking one to join after sweegy woods would result being useful (I'd say a panther).

I didn't mean for knight to have innate counter, I just wanted it to have it in its ability list instead of the monk. I feel like the knight class doesn't have much as far as r/s/m abilities , so giving it counter would make it a bit more interesting.

And I don't really use monsters as pets, but it sounds like a good idea for people who want to.

As for the retrieving items idea I'm kind of torn. Not being able to get your stuff back is annoying, but it adds some challenge to the game.

Oops, my bad. I jumped to conclusions.

The idea behind invite is simple. That will stop people from constantly resetting just because a generic crystallizes. Instead they'll pick up the crystal for teh abilities and go on with the battle then invite a new generic instead of starting with a lvl1 Squire.

And personally, every time I invited generics into my party they were stronger than my current ones. (higher level & more abilities)
Training is boring, what I want is to fight!

But, in the end... are you ever gonna find a master Black mage with mastered summon? nai.

However I haven't tried Sigma yet but I can say crystal hunting humans sounds much more beneficial than inviting them.

I hadn't even thought about it like that. Usually whenever any of my units crystallize I just reset, and I never go crystal farming. Mayhaps it be time to switch up my tacticz...

Quote from: "Austin"As for the retrieving items idea I'm kind of torn. Not being able to get your stuff back is annoying, but it adds some challenge to the game.

I can't remember a single game of FFT where having my equipment broken resulted in a challenge being provided, except in the battle where it actually happened. Which is the way it should be.

Although its not as much of an issue later in the game, having to buy armor and weapons near the beginning can be expensive. If you know your items have a chance at being broken/stolen would it be better to buy top of the line equipment and have little to no money left, or would it be better to buy items that aren't quite as good, but still have some cash left over in case you need more? The challenge I was talking about doesn't have so much to do with the battle as much as it does the aftermath. Anyways, even with that its still irritating when you have to reset a battle just because some jackass stole your hard-earned, irreplaceable genji gauntlet, or when you have to walk halfway across the world map just for a new sword, so I can definitely see where you are coming from. If we have the power to make this happen someday and the majority of people want to go with your idea then you won't hear me complaining.  

Yeah. And what about Draw Out? I only used Masamune and Chiri once to see what they looked like and then never used them again. I've said before, but being able to access only, say, 2 of each Katana in your stock for DO purposes would bring some proper strategy into play PROVIDED that you got the broken ones back afterwards.

I wasn't even thinking about katanas and draw out when I wrote that. There really isn't any reason for those to not to be unbreakable, but would we have to be able to change formulas before we could make it happen?

No I think breaking is a good idea as a strategic option in any given battle. And DO would benefit from an increased threat from breakage. It would force the player to be a bit more mindful rather than just raging Muramasas all over the place.

I don't think it would be that bad since the draw out moves aren't as powerful anymore. If not though the top-tier katanas need to be available in more than one or two places.

So why would I not spam Draw Out all the time then? I don't like this idea that everything settles in such a way that all you have are kickass options all the time and it's just a matter of picking the most kickass one. I prefer the idea that DO is a powerful set but with some major consequence or limitation.

Major consequence? I think we need more backfire on skills too.

Yeah. It's ridiculous how many skills in this game are just various degrees of "fucking amazing". The entire DO set was like that in the pre-patched FFT I thought and Monk has some bloody good ones too. Earth Slash is wrong wrong wrong. So are Swordskills.

More skills should have a Worker 8-style HP sacrifice. Or dump a bad status effect on you.

Although some skills do need to be limited I don't like the idea of having them backfire on you. The entire point of having using a skill is for it to benefit you. I think making the good skills cost mp would be the best way of going about it.

Making moves that have some "backfire" effect doesn't mean they won't benefit you. It just means they become situational.

And MP cost as a way of balancing good skills is a total failure unless you put seriously tight controls on how much MP every character has at every time and even then I tend to think it's too easy to just refill MP. Not to mention there's no variety in having that be the only constraint of good abilities and that kills strategy too.

Now that I think about it, I don't really see why anything else should be changed. Drawout has already been nerfed a bit and sword skills cost mp now, which I think is a good enough solution. Earth slash is the only other move that I can think might need to have its power reduced at the moment.

I think that Rad needs improvement. As it stands now he is just mediocre, despite doing enough melee damage to be a good fighter he barely has enough HP to stand two hits, and his magic skills aren't good enough to just sit back and cast. Most melee characters can equip armor which now provides a lot more HP than clothing, so when put up against them he's totally outclassed. Basically, I think this can be fixed by just letting him equip armor. That way he makes for a good physical fighter who can throw out a spell when the opportunity presents itself. Since he only gets armor and not helmets he won't be quite as tough as other units so I think this could balance him out and make him a better unit.

Monks also suffer from similar problems now, so I think letting them equip hats wouldn't be a bad idea. Or as another option you could reduce the HP gap between hats and clothes and helmets and armor a little, its gotten to be quite large. So much so I usually find myself giving my mages equip armor instead of magic abilities because it provides such a big advantage.

Well, some people have recommended Short Charge innate for Rad, so you may want to try that.  (His class is 14 Cleric in the patcher.)
Rad should be useful, but not really above mediocre to start out with considering you already have special units in your party.

I think armor should be, all in all, better equipment than clothes. Maybe I over did it though? Monks may just need an HPM/HPC boost.

I dont believe many changes are needed right now.  Earth slash seems at times very powerful but how often are enemy characters gonna line up in a straight line for you to hit.  What complaints can be made about the samurai class, as if you have it in chapter 1.  I feel that  the draw out skill along with other high tiered skills are the reward for training your character.  Whats the point of unlocking classes if the abilities didn't get any better, you might as well stay a squire and a chemist.  Besides these are also skills that the computer has access to.  I like the thought of running into a group of samurai with draw out, just like about 13 monks that have earth slash and are wearing earth clothes.  I believe the current classes are pretty good.  I think the focus needs to be on sprite creation and adding any new classes.  

I like the armor idea for Rad.  A red mage should be able to wear some armor.  Does he have access to gauntlets and should he?

Rad does have access to gauntlets, and I think he should. Red mages are both magically and physically oriented so it makes sense for him to wear them, and I'm with you on not changing draw out and earth slash.

Also the hpm/c boost sounds good for monks as long as its not overdone. Now that everything except hats have had an hp boost, monks are kind of lagging behind even with chakra and revive.

I do believe Earth slash has excessive range though (8, wow that's like gun range)... it's awfully easy to align with the enemy within a 2 vertical range.

Did the range get reduced? If so the skill should be fine.

I still don't think its that bad. Like Chuck said you'd be lucky to hit more than  2 guys at the same time. Reducing the vertical range any further would just make earth slash useless half of the time. The most I'd want to do is reduce the horizontal range from 5 to 4, this is the monk's ultimate skill after all. Plus it doesn't do as much damage as other ranged skills so letting it hit from far off is fine to me.

Edit: Wait it was 8?! Could of sworn it was 5... I really need to finish playing through this again. Anyways, yeah reduce horizontally to 4 or 5. I think 4's a good number. No wonder people were complaining about it, 8's like half the map.

Quote from: "huthutchuck"I dont believe many changes are needed right now.  Earth slash seems at times very powerful but how often are enemy characters gonna line up in a straight line for you to hit.  What complaints can be made about the samurai class, as if you have it in chapter 1.  I feel that  the draw out skill along with other high tiered skills are the reward for training your character.  Whats the point of unlocking classes if the abilities didn't get any better, you might as well stay a squire and a chemist.  Besides these are also skills that the computer has access to.  I like the thought of running into a group of samurai with draw out, just like about 13 monks that have earth slash and are wearing earth clothes.  I believe the current classes are pretty good.  I think the focus needs to be on sprite creation and adding any new classes.  

I like the armor idea for Rad.  A red mage should be able to wear some armor.  Does he have access to gauntlets and should he?

Some reward. Perhaps it can be like FF3 for the NES where you have a stupid 2-class endgame. No thanks. The "reward" for training characters should be more options, not more redundancy.

And Earth Slash is mad damage, comes out instantly and this idea that enemies won't line up for you is silly. If it hits one it's powerful enough and I don't know how you guys play but I hit 2 or 3 enemies regularly. I think the vertical tolerance should be taken down.

How about 5v2?

If that's too much, we can reduce it later.

That's what I wanted to propose. With 4 range you're almost better off with Wave Fist and 1 vertical the skill would loose almost all effectiveness.

It's damage kind of sucks early on, and later 5 range shouldn't be too much of a treat for later enemies.

I have to say myself that it was quite the opposite for myself. It actually rarely ever happened that I couldn't strike 2 enemies with Earth Slash (unless there weren't enough left alive). A FFT map isn't really big and it's easy for enemies to stack in line.

5v2 works for me. Also, couldn't you go ahead and switch the blaze gun with the glacier gun to prevent some confusion? And the stone gun is still useless right? So maybe something could be done with that. I assume it was meant to shoot petrifying bullets, but that sounds kind of cheap unless the success rate is low.

Since when was a weapon that does 225 damage from 8 squares away with 100% accuracy useless?
All you need is someone to use a Soft or Esuna.

225? I thought it was just a regular gun that petrified you immediately for no apparent reason, guess not though.

Actually, it's 256 (16*16)

That rises to 341 with Attack Up

It may be a good idea to make it so katanas can't be 2 sworded now that they all have 40% weapon evade. 2 katanas + weapon guard + a decent mantle= pwnage.

Ah yes, that's not supposed to be possible.

Stupid Ninjaz and their 2 swords...