Nice. When polls like this are used I'm always afraid of situations where division among the majority allows the united minority to win unfairly. It's nice to see you consolidating things instead of just blindly following whatever received the most votes. Granted, it seems that I'm in the minority that would have otherwise won, but the option that seems to be winning now was my second choice anyway. It's separated enough from FFT's storyline that we won't be too tied down with continuity to build up to a climactic conclusion. We probably can't use the Lucavi, but we have full access to pretty much every other important group in Ivalice.
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22
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
July 02, 2012, 07:10:55 pm
Expanding on the story of the original game would be nice, but I think there's a reason Square-Enix didn't do that with their later Ivalice games. The events of FFT were the climax of Ivalice history, and what came before and after was build up and resolution. It would be possible to tell an interesting story, but we would be heavily limited by the fact that many of the major plots were in their infancy during the Fifty Years' War and were already resolved by the end of FFT. The before and after were in service of the main story itself, and it would be difficult to add to or change those parts of the story without harming the overall narrative.
As such, I vote that we come up with an original story in a similar style.
As such, I vote that we come up with an original story in a similar style.
23
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
June 28, 2012, 02:58:44 pm
I guess I may as well throw another class idea out there.
Job Name: Mystic Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Warrior mages who enhance the power of their weapons with magic.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Spellblade
Skillset Description: Adds a magical effect to the Mystic Knight's physical attack.
Ability Types: Mostly weapon-range elemental attacks that can also inflict statuses, similar to the Parivir from FFTA2.
Additional Info: Reaction abilities may include SOS Protect or SOS Shell if considered viable and balanced.
Job Name: Mystic Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Warrior mages who enhance the power of their weapons with magic.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Spellblade
Skillset Description: Adds a magical effect to the Mystic Knight's physical attack.
Ability Types: Mostly weapon-range elemental attacks that can also inflict statuses, similar to the Parivir from FFTA2.
Additional Info: Reaction abilities may include SOS Protect or SOS Shell if considered viable and balanced.
24
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
June 26, 2012, 04:05:26 am
I know there's ASM to give every unit the item command (though I'm pretty sure enemies don't actually make use of it.) If you could combine that ASM with some method of making the item command mastered by default then every player-controlled unit would have access to items.
25
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
June 25, 2012, 05:23:19 pm
Would it be a bad idea to scrap the Oracle and give renamed versions of its spells to the Black Mage and White Mage to make them more versatile? The White Mage isn't in any particular need for greater versatility, so I don't care too much about giving it more spells, but the Black Mage's focus on doing damage and almost nothing else makes the move set easily replaceable by any other class that has good damage output.
The Black Mage could take Blind, Osmose, Drain, Sleep, and Break. The White Mage could take Silence, Berserk, Confuse, and Dispel. You could also give Disable to the Time Mage if it still exists in this hack.
The Black Mage could take Blind, Osmose, Drain, Sleep, and Break. The White Mage could take Silence, Berserk, Confuse, and Dispel. You could also give Disable to the Time Mage if it still exists in this hack.
26
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
June 24, 2012, 12:45:59 am
EDIT: Dang, I am way too verbose. Eh, I'll leave my wall of text in a spoiler in case somebody wants to read it, but the short of it is that I'm getting really tired of being treated like a scrub. My ego probably isn't worth the trouble of convincing you that I'm not some scrub who's all about "cool abilities" and "flavor" and "creator's intent," so I'm hoping this conversation can end now.
By creator intent, I'm assuming you mean what the developers of FFT envisioned? If so, we've already thrown that out. Look at what has happened to Ninja, for example.
I've noticed. And yet, people are very resistant to my suggestion of removing Masamune. Well, the first people to respond to me weren't too defensive. It was only after I posted my "I'm going to drop this now and leave you with these thoughts to think about later on" post that Raven got on and I felt the need to clarify that my suggestion to abandon haste and regen wasn't rooted in concern for flavor or adherence to creator intent.
As for mechanical coherence, I honestly don't understand what you mean at all. If you are talking about how most samurai abilities are AoE, then why not also complain about Kiku, which has the same targeting system as Masamune, except that Masamune hits self and is 1 range. If you are talking about about how most Draw Outs deal damage to the enemy, then Murasame gets attacked as well.
Most Samurai abilities inflict damage. One of them has a different targeting system, one of them inflicts harmful status effects instead of direct damage, and one of them is reversed to provide support rather than offense. Then there's one ability that has a different targeting system, adds status effects instead of affecting HP, and focuses on supporting the party instead of harming the enemy. Sorry for trying to use odd terminology to save myself the trouble of explaining this, but you can't tell me that Masamune doesn't deviate a lot further from the standard than the other abilities in the move set.
And finally, the reason I don't want a mass death attack...
I only suggested the AoE death because CT5Holy said he would prefer to change Masamune rather than scrap it, which was my original suggestion. I really don't care about Zanmato.
If you read the goals of this patch, it lists balance as the primary goal, bar nothing. Cool abilities are cool, sure, but I'm not going to make an overpowered/underpowered ability for flavour/mechanical coherence/whatever you want to call it.
I wasn't suggesting cool abilities for the sake of cool abilities. I was trying to come up with an alternative for people who didn't like my original plan of scrapping the ability (like CT5Holy.) Honestly, if the Samurai didn't already have haste+regen, wouldn't anybody who suggested adding that ability be treated to the exact same attitude you're treating me with? But I'm getting really frustrated here because I'm getting really tired of being treated like some scrub who's all about "flavor" or "cool abilities" or "creator intent" when I'm the one who suggested moving away from creator intent to scrap a cool ability rather than contorting it for the sake of... what exactly?
TL;DR version: Masamune is currently broken, and getting nerfed. If the nerfed version is still broken, we can change it or whatever then.
So... you referenced the Zanmato idea from my "I'm just going to leave these thoughts here so you can consider them later if your current idea doesn't work out" post, and yet you're still regurgitating back at me exactly what I already said about waiting for you to test Masamune? You are seriously getting on my nerves, but I'm going to try to calm myself because this is the internet, and text is easy to misinterpret. You probably saw me defending my position to Raven as me actually trying to convince you to change your plan (the square peg/round hole analogy probably sounded too much like an attempt at persuasion.) Also, you probably weren't paying attention to who was saying what when the topic came up on IRC (I wasn't the one suggesting veil or instant death, I just suggested the First Aid ability for the Squire when the subject of making regen useful came up.)
I probably sound just as much like a jerk to you as you do to me, so let's just end this conversation that should already be over anyway.
I've noticed. And yet, people are very resistant to my suggestion of removing Masamune. Well, the first people to respond to me weren't too defensive. It was only after I posted my "I'm going to drop this now and leave you with these thoughts to think about later on" post that Raven got on and I felt the need to clarify that my suggestion to abandon haste and regen wasn't rooted in concern for flavor or adherence to creator intent.
As for mechanical coherence, I honestly don't understand what you mean at all. If you are talking about how most samurai abilities are AoE, then why not also complain about Kiku, which has the same targeting system as Masamune, except that Masamune hits self and is 1 range. If you are talking about about how most Draw Outs deal damage to the enemy, then Murasame gets attacked as well.
Most Samurai abilities inflict damage. One of them has a different targeting system, one of them inflicts harmful status effects instead of direct damage, and one of them is reversed to provide support rather than offense. Then there's one ability that has a different targeting system, adds status effects instead of affecting HP, and focuses on supporting the party instead of harming the enemy. Sorry for trying to use odd terminology to save myself the trouble of explaining this, but you can't tell me that Masamune doesn't deviate a lot further from the standard than the other abilities in the move set.
And finally, the reason I don't want a mass death attack...
I only suggested the AoE death because CT5Holy said he would prefer to change Masamune rather than scrap it, which was my original suggestion. I really don't care about Zanmato.
If you read the goals of this patch, it lists balance as the primary goal, bar nothing. Cool abilities are cool, sure, but I'm not going to make an overpowered/underpowered ability for flavour/mechanical coherence/whatever you want to call it.
I wasn't suggesting cool abilities for the sake of cool abilities. I was trying to come up with an alternative for people who didn't like my original plan of scrapping the ability (like CT5Holy.) Honestly, if the Samurai didn't already have haste+regen, wouldn't anybody who suggested adding that ability be treated to the exact same attitude you're treating me with? But I'm getting really frustrated here because I'm getting really tired of being treated like some scrub who's all about "flavor" or "cool abilities" or "creator intent" when I'm the one who suggested moving away from creator intent to scrap a cool ability rather than contorting it for the sake of... what exactly?
TL;DR version: Masamune is currently broken, and getting nerfed. If the nerfed version is still broken, we can change it or whatever then.
So... you referenced the Zanmato idea from my "I'm just going to leave these thoughts here so you can consider them later if your current idea doesn't work out" post, and yet you're still regurgitating back at me exactly what I already said about waiting for you to test Masamune? You are seriously getting on my nerves, but I'm going to try to calm myself because this is the internet, and text is easy to misinterpret. You probably saw me defending my position to Raven as me actually trying to convince you to change your plan (the square peg/round hole analogy probably sounded too much like an attempt at persuasion.) Also, you probably weren't paying attention to who was saying what when the topic came up on IRC (I wasn't the one suggesting veil or instant death, I just suggested the First Aid ability for the Squire when the subject of making regen useful came up.)
I probably sound just as much like a jerk to you as you do to me, so let's just end this conversation that should already be over anyway.
27
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
June 23, 2012, 08:16:05 pm
"Balance isn't my primary concern" doesn't mean "flavor is my primary concern." It just means that I have other concerns besides taking what we have and making it balanced. We both have the goal of making the game balanced, but your side prioritizes preserving the Samurai's ability to add haste and regen, while my side prioritizes mechanical coherence. It seems a bit odd that somebody on your side is criticizing me for clinging to creator intent when I'm the one saying we should ditch vanilla's precedent and focus on giving the Samurai a coherent move set rather than remaining true to the source material.
When I brought up creator intent, it was part of a strategy to encourage people to move away from creator intent, since creator intent for the ability to be broken is so strongly opposed to our goal of having a balanced game. People are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I'm saying that we don't need the square peg.
When I brought up creator intent, it was part of a strategy to encourage people to move away from creator intent, since creator intent for the ability to be broken is so strongly opposed to our goal of having a balanced game. People are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and I'm saying that we don't need the square peg.
28
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
June 21, 2012, 07:19:00 pm
Like I said, game balance isn't my primary concern, so I'm approaching this from a different angle than you are. The linear version of Masamune might make it somewhat more balanced, but it also makes Masamune even more out of place in the Samurai's move set. Not that I'm pushing you to abandon the idea before you've tried it, but I think I should say my piece now so I don't forget to speak later.
If you end up not liking the linear version of Masamune, my suggestion is to replace Masamune with Zanmato, which would inflict instant death. Zanmato already exists in FFT as a treasure item, so it seems like an appropriate addition.
If you want to keep Masamune around though, it's probably best to revert it to the way it was in past games where it wasn't designed to be broken. In FFII, FFIV, FFV, and maybe a couple of others, Masamune's effect when used as an item was to cast the haste spell. Regen was an addition made in FFT, presumably because group haste alone wasn't good enough to justify the risk of breaking a rare weapon.
If you end up not liking the linear version of Masamune, my suggestion is to replace Masamune with Zanmato, which would inflict instant death. Zanmato already exists in FFT as a treasure item, so it seems like an appropriate addition.
If you want to keep Masamune around though, it's probably best to revert it to the way it was in past games where it wasn't designed to be broken. In FFII, FFIV, FFV, and maybe a couple of others, Masamune's effect when used as an item was to cast the haste spell. Regen was an addition made in FFT, presumably because group haste alone wasn't good enough to justify the risk of breaking a rare weapon.
29
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
June 19, 2012, 08:49:10 pm
I wouldn't suggest scrapping the ability if it actually felt like the sort of ability you might give the Samurai if you were building its move set from the ground up, but as it stands Masamune seems like an out of place ability that's being grandfathered in. I'm not concerned so much with balance as I am with letting the classes that specialize in this sort of thing actually feel special.
But regarding balance, I feel I should point out that even after Masamune is nerfed, the Samurai is still capable of accomplishing in one turn something that would take the support-focused Squire four actions to imitate. For the exact same JP cost.
I would also also like to point out that the Squire's haste ability has both a CT and MP cost, and doesn't add regen like Masamune. Yell's only advantage over Masamune is that it can reach 2 panels further. Again, we're comparing the more offense-oriented Samurai to a support-focused Squire, and the Squire is getting absolutely obliterated at his own game.
Granted, a female Squire with Ultima would be doing almost as much damage as a male Samurai with his stronger draw outs, but again the Squire trades range for both a (fairly high) CT and MP cost, and the damage is only comparable if the squire is built to have high MA and the Samurai isn't.
But regarding balance, I feel I should point out that even after Masamune is nerfed, the Samurai is still capable of accomplishing in one turn something that would take the support-focused Squire four actions to imitate. For the exact same JP cost.
I would also also like to point out that the Squire's haste ability has both a CT and MP cost, and doesn't add regen like Masamune. Yell's only advantage over Masamune is that it can reach 2 panels further. Again, we're comparing the more offense-oriented Samurai to a support-focused Squire, and the Squire is getting absolutely obliterated at his own game.
Granted, a female Squire with Ultima would be doing almost as much damage as a male Samurai with his stronger draw outs, but again the Squire trades range for both a (fairly high) CT and MP cost, and the damage is only comparable if the squire is built to have high MA and the Samurai isn't.
30
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Stats/Ability Discussion Thread [HUMANS]
June 17, 2012, 08:53:45 pm
Why are we even trying to balance Masamune? It was pretty much designed to be broken in vanilla, but it was "balanced" because it required the player to obtain a very rare and difficult to get piece of equipment and then risk breaking it. Those "balancing factors" aren't present in this hack, so what we're left with is a broken skill that doesn't really fit in with the rest of the Draw Outs anyway.
The Samurai move set seems complete enough without haste and regen, so why not just drop Masamune and leave haste to the Squire and Time Mage, where it actually fits in with the rest of the moves? Will the Samurai move set really be incomplete without this move?
The Samurai move set seems complete enough without haste and regen, so why not just drop Masamune and leave haste to the Squire and Time Mage, where it actually fits in with the rest of the moves? Will the Samurai move set really be incomplete without this move?
31
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
June 05, 2012, 06:52:41 pm
Why would we need a new set of charge skills? I assume the archer is going to be replaced with something else anyway, so couldn't we just give the archer's old skill set to the Treasure Hunter? Not that it really matters. The only reason I gave the class a skill set at all was because the game already had one that relied so heavily on the equipped weapon.
And the fact that the arsenal would need to replace existing items was part of the reason this class is only intended for late game use. If the Ninja gets removed, that frees up six items for use in the Treasure Hunter's arsenal, which is actually a pretty decent selection.
And the fact that the arsenal would need to replace existing items was part of the reason this class is only intended for late game use. If the Ninja gets removed, that frees up six items for use in the Treasure Hunter's arsenal, which is actually a pretty decent selection.
32
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
June 04, 2012, 09:11:38 pm
It seems pretty broken compared to normal classes, but as a replacement class for Cid's Holy Swordsman class it might be just right. I also have a class that would probably need to go to somebody like Orlandu or Beowulf, so I guess I should go ahead and post that one now.
Job Name: Treasure Hunter
Job Purpose: Melee/Ranged/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Adventurer who battles the forces of darkness using a collection of legendary weapons.
Ability Types: Charge, but with a lower CT than the core archer has. This class should also have Change Equipment innate.
Additional Info: There should be a special weapon type only this class can use which would actually be a collection of various different types of weapons, each specialized for a different purpose. All of the weapons in its collection will have different attributes (auto-buffs and debuffs, resistances and weaknesses, and various other properties) that make them more useful in some situations than others, encouraging the player to make use of the Change Equipment skill.
Job Name: Treasure Hunter
Job Purpose: Melee/Ranged/Damage/Harassment
Job Description: Adventurer who battles the forces of darkness using a collection of legendary weapons.
Ability Types: Charge, but with a lower CT than the core archer has. This class should also have Change Equipment innate.
Additional Info: There should be a special weapon type only this class can use which would actually be a collection of various different types of weapons, each specialized for a different purpose. All of the weapons in its collection will have different attributes (auto-buffs and debuffs, resistances and weaknesses, and various other properties) that make them more useful in some situations than others, encouraging the player to make use of the Change Equipment skill.
33
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
May 30, 2012, 12:29:12 am
This version of the knight isn't intended to have equipment breaks, and the status breaks could easily be changed into something like Zalbaag's ruin abilities that don't take weapon range into account (or they could just require a sword to be equipped like all the other knight class abilities.)
34
New Project Ideas / Re: Community Mod
May 29, 2012, 07:28:33 pm
Well, I'm not exactly an active member of the community, but if you're not getting many other contributions, I may as well throw my own ideas into the mix. I'll just give you one for right now.
Job Name: Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Support/Tank
Job Description: Sworn to fulfill their oath, no matter the cost.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Arts of War
Skillset Description: Knight Job command. Protect allies or destroy enemies at the cost of one's own health.
Ability Types: Aside from status breaks the Knight should also have abilities that make use of the Knight's large supply of HP, such as Wish or Darkside (like wish but with damage instead of healing) or things like White Wind and Minus Strike if possible.
Additional Info: This could be a special class for Lavian and Alicia, or it could be split between them so one has the offensive abilities and the other has the defensive abilities.
Job Name: Knight
Job Purpose: Melee/Damage/Support/Tank
Job Description: Sworn to fulfill their oath, no matter the cost.
Gender Availability: Both
Skillset Name: Arts of War
Skillset Description: Knight Job command. Protect allies or destroy enemies at the cost of one's own health.
Ability Types: Aside from status breaks the Knight should also have abilities that make use of the Knight's large supply of HP, such as Wish or Darkside (like wish but with damage instead of healing) or things like White Wind and Minus Strike if possible.
Additional Info: This could be a special class for Lavian and Alicia, or it could be split between them so one has the offensive abilities and the other has the defensive abilities.
35
Old Project Ideas / Re: Project Orlandu
January 27, 2012, 08:08:51 pmQuote from: VincentSarius on January 25, 2012, 10:37:23 pmActually, I'd wager to say Knight Sword+Shield is pretty damn powerful.
Considering the very high weapon evade on Knight Swords combined with their Always: buffs and formula of (Pa*Br/100)*WP they make better one-handed weapons than two-handed in my humble opinion. Of course, weapon guard isn't the greatest reaction abilities but when you have something like Excalibur or Defender with 60 and 35 W.Ev respectively it becomes pretty strong.
That's only if you assume that knight swords aren't nerfed in some way. Personally, I'd prefer to weaken the knight swords so the player has more than one viable option rather than forcing the player to use knight swords with both hands, but I suppose it does make sense for those sorts of weapons to require both hands anyway, so I won't be upset if Luna goes that way. Still, it would be nice for the two hand support ability to actually be useful for some weapons.
36
Old Project Ideas / Re: Project Orlandu
January 14, 2012, 05:21:30 pm
Eh, if I'm going to be watching this thread I may as well create an account so I can contribute.
It's not really unbalanced to wield a knight sword or spear with a shield, is it? If not, I'd prefer to just uncheck the "two swords" box in FFTPatcher for anything you don't want to be dual wielded (such as knight swords, spears, or the <nothing> at the top if the item list that represents fists, if you want to disable that combo.) Allowing the player to choose between carrying a shield or doing more damage with their weapon sounds more interesting than forcing one of those options on them.
Quote from: Dunkelritter Luna on January 07, 2012, 12:54:28 pmQuote from: Generic19 on January 07, 2012, 05:05:35 amAs far as suggestions... I'm not sure two hands even needs to be in the game. I think perhaps making more weapons 'forced two hands', and then greatly increasing their WP, is a more interesting solution that is easier to balance (knight swords, spears).
Forced two hands does not give the bonus two hands the skill does. If I do implement forced two hands as the only means of using, then those weapons will have much higher WP. In addition, two swords would be forced into being innate only.
It's not really unbalanced to wield a knight sword or spear with a shield, is it? If not, I'd prefer to just uncheck the "two swords" box in FFTPatcher for anything you don't want to be dual wielded (such as knight swords, spears, or the <nothing> at the top if the item list that represents fists, if you want to disable that combo.) Allowing the player to choose between carrying a shield or doing more damage with their weapon sounds more interesting than forcing one of those options on them.