War of the Lion's Script

[Hisui]

So there's been a lot of debate on whether WotL's remade script is better then the original or not, and I just wanted to see personal feelings. It really is a big deal in the end, as (keeping my personal opinions of WoTL away) dialogue can either engross the player, or completely turn them off. So... opinions?

My personal opinion is that the original felt much better, it had this realistic feel to it that, combined with the game's deep view of government and morals, completely sucked the player in for an amazing experience. The dialogue was great, the names were creative, and it had some of the most amazing quotes I have ever seen. Anyone remember good ol douchebag Algus with his "Animals have no God" quote? The translated dialogue of WotL made it feel just like it wanted it to be, a whole new world. To me, this made it feel like it just alienated the player instead of telling a story that would engross them. Plus... this is mainly just personal bias, but seriously, what's with all the "Ser" stuff? Gives me a weird vibe <_<

Oh, and I'm new : D Nice to meet you.

[VampragonLord]

original, because malak has some lines that make him sound like a drunk gobbledeguk. WotL wasn't bad, it just felt too forced. as if they had gotten an "english-to-pompous-wanna-be-shakespeare" translator

[SilvasRuin]

WotL needs some fixes, but they made Algus much more of a douchebag in the new one than he ever seemed to be in the old.  Perhaps you're just too thrown off by the archaic word choices to notice?

Both translations are flawed.  In the end, I like the the little things the new one adds that are missed in the old.  It seems to me that it added more than it took away.  The broken English of the original is just as troublesome as the pseudo-shakespear of the new, it's just that long time players had time to get used to that broken English.  Pardon me for my skepticism, but I don't think anyone on this site could really produce a whole new translation that is the best of both worlds by him or herself, and a group effort would go up in flames from numerous disagreements.  Because of that, complaints about the translations rather irk me.  Explaining why something is a flawed translation is one thing (like pointing out the literal translation and how it doesn't match up with what was used).  Whining about how the style or broken English annoys is quite another.  As far as I can tell, these sorts of discussions never go anywhere.  Ideally, it would be possible to apply a translation on top of any patch that doesn't alter the plot.  At that point, people should probably just leave the dang things alone and go with whichever one they like/tolerate more.

[philsov]

Original, just because I've played it for so long and got so used to it that the wotl translation is just... off.  In fact, the engrish was part of its charm, really -- it wasn't overproduced or hyped or anything else.  It was the product of the Quest team (same people who did Orge Battle and more importantly, TO:LUCT) who redid a whole bunch of stuff with a final fantasy spin.

What WotL did is it brought FFT into the fold -- Cure2 got updated to Cura, Priests went back to white mages, and all the horrible mistranslations I've become accustomed too like Bad Bracelet got removed.  

But, imo, the translation team went WAY too far.  I understand that in order to bring FFT into the FF/ivalice modo that some changes had to be made, for thematic's sake -- even if in an afterthought.  But there is so much that was fine.  Most of the character names' spellings are nothing short of masturbatory in nature and were simply changed for the sake of being changed.  Some executive somewhere said "change EVERYTHING" and the actual staff did what they were told.  

That said, I also feel a bit of raw emotion was lost in the new translation -- people shouldn't be that flowery midbattle; really detached me from the whole thing.

TL:DR -- Original = too not English.  WotL =  waaaaaay too English.  Original is the lesser of two evils.

[Archael]

im with philsuave

[Dominic NY18]

The regulars probably know what my answer is .

I've never had a special affinity for the original script, despite playing the original game to death. I've never gotten used to the Bracelet attacks, Morbols, Altima, Cuars, or any other numerous mistranslations.

Nor can I overlook just how many details and references were lost or garbled in the translation. I didn't know that Ruglia was Ramza's mother's family name. I wouldn't have guessed that Malak was saying the power of the holy stones depends on the intentions and desires of the person using it. I knew Hokuten and Nanten were related somehow, but since I don't know Japanese, I didn't know what their names were supposed to mean in relation to one another or the reference to the night sky each name connotes. And the list goes on.

As far as character names go, it's a mixed bag and I'd agree that they took it too far for some of them. But for item names, ability names, and other terms, I think WOTL nailed it (for the most part).

As for speech, many of the lines in the original are as awkward as some WOTL lines are too verbose, if not more so. I don't see any missing emotions in the new script. If anything, the new script adds detail to some scenes and depth to some characters (despite his awful name, Argath > Algus). WOTL also has some charms of its own in various places that for me make up for whatever was lost from the original (some of the errands come to mind). In the end, I'd rather have speech that is at times overwrought than Engrish speech that makes many characters sound like inarticulate idiots and causes the player to possibly miss out on plot details.

TL;DR - The original has lots of errors, is too messy, too literal, and lacks polish. Despite WOTL's faults, it's a better localization.

[Samuraiblackbelt]

I agree with Vamp

[Miroshi Beshima]

IMO WotL is much better. I owned the original game first and thought it was fine...until i played WotL. WotL seemed to fit the time while the original seemed too modern. Also, the original had way too many flaws and translation issues. The archaic form of speech didnt bother me in the least. I liked it a lot actually. Also, FFXII warms you up to the archaic speech. Ivalice is fit in the rennaissance time period (i think i got the time period right.) with high-end tech. To me, the speech seemed fine and fit. SE surely tried to fit that period but with their own spelling and stuff, sure, sometimes it does sound "shakespeare" at times but i thought it created a new feel. I also liked most of the name changes.

[Kaijyuu]

They both are terrible.

One has broken modern English, the other has broken sort-of-not-really Old English. Either way it's broken.


I vote null, but I will say that cure 3 >>>> curaga and such. Japanese-y suffixes attached to English words makes me retch.



EDIT: Heh, sorry for the sorta-bump. Second on the list but still 12 days since the last reply. Whoops.

[SilvasRuin]

The numbers sound more absurd than the suffixes to me.  Really, it might would be best to just use adjectives instead of the suffixes or rip DragonQuest's naming style.  Of course if you pull the latter, you lose all chance of the spell names sounding in any way serious.  It would make sense and not be... absurd... but it would be silly.

[formerdeathcorps]

I'd rather have spell names follow a more "English" progression, e.g.
Fire
Blaze
Incinerate
Inferno
...
but since that's not how FF names their spells, I probably would prefer Element 1/2/3/4 over Element with syllables at the end since the first is clearer than the second (I don't exactly see how that would be a "shocking" break from FF tradition).

The mistranslations were terrible in the original, but Shakespearean English was equally unnecessary for unit class attacks, place names, and the names of most characters (Wiegraf, Rad, a few others being exceptions).  As for character development, I admit WoTL has the advantage of hindsight, but there's merit in keeping the greater level of mystery of the original (if simply because it inspires more speculation/fan-fiction).
As for the new events added, the previously hidden sound books are a nice feature, but I really don't see why we need more broken items (Tynar) and unit classes (Dark Knights better than Gafgarion) when many of the highly exploitable tricks from the original FFT weren't addressed.

[Kaijyuu]

I'm in agreement that this sort of thing:

I'd rather have spell names follow a more "English" progression, e.g.
Fire
Blaze
Incinerate
Inferno

would be best.

Regardless, shouting out the name of your spell/special attack is plain silly no matter what the name is. If I could throw fireballs, I certainly wouldn't say "Hadouken" every time.

Meh.

[Dominic NY18]

I'd rather have spell names follow a more "English" progression, e.g.
Fire
Blaze
Incinerate
Inferno
...
but since that's not how FF names their spells, I probably would prefer Element 1/2/3/4 over Element with syllables at the end since the first is clearer than the second (I don't exactly see how that would be a "shocking" break from FF tradition).

Going back to numbers would be a break with tradition now because every FF game since VIII (main series, sequels, side titles) has used the suffixes.

The mistranslations were terrible in the original, but Shakespearean English was equally unnecessary for unit class attacks, place names, and the names of most characters (Wiegraf, Rad, a few others being exceptions).

I'm calling BS on this "Shakespearean English" criticism people keep bringing up (here and elsewhere). Arguing it's "overwrought" or some other similar criticism is one thing. Saying the game uses Early Modern English is just off. I know that isn't what you're addressing, but the tendency to criticize it for being "Shakespearean" is just lazy and erroneous.

As for what you actually said, I don't see how the various nouns are exclusive to or mostly associated with Early Modern English.

As for character development, I admit WoTL has the advantage of hindsight, but there's merit in keeping the greater level of mystery of the original (if simply because it inspires more speculation/fan-fiction).

Except things that were muddled in the original version were clear in the Japanese version. They weren't meant to be kept mysterious.

As for the rest of what you said, none of that has any bearing on the script.

[VampragonLord]

I agree with vamp.

[Zaen]

I'd rather have spell names follow a more "English" progression, e.g.
Fire
Blaze
Incinerate
Inferno
...
but since that's not how FF names their spells, I probably would prefer Element 1/2/3/4 over Element with syllables at the end since the first is clearer than the second (I don't exactly see how that would be a "shocking" break from FF tradition).

Going back to numbers would be a break with tradition now because every FF game since VIII (main series, sequels, side titles) has used the suffixes.

But that doesn't matter, if it breaks tradition with everything VIII and onward, seeing as this was BEFORE VIII.

Therefore, I like numbers, though the English progression sounds nice.

[Dominic NY18]

We're also talking about the War of the Lions, which is obviously after VIII (hence the "tradition now" part).

[Vanya]

Numbers is a NA region localization thing.
I usually prefer things to be true to the JP original as much as possible.

[Wiegraf]

What troubled sleep have you known, to speak of my dreams? No matter how sweet, a dream left unrealized must fade into day. Only with power can dreams be made real! I see the truth of it now. What good, dreams, without that power? You think me a thrall? So be it! Your envenomed words succor me, for when at last you yield - as you must - their poison will consume you!


War of the Lions by far. I honestly think that nostalgia is the only reason anyone could prefer the old script

Dycedarg's Elder Brother=FTL

[Sain]

That said, I also feel a bit of raw emotion was lost in the new translation -- people shouldn't be that flowery midbattle; really detached me from the whole thing.

I had a similar thought earlier today but then I thought to myself, "Well, in what world are these people that a battle will stop so that two people can talk at length?" and went about my day. =P

I honestly prefer the newer script.  But its also been so long that I don't quite remember the old script and all its "engrish" glory.  And maybe the old script had it too, but Weigraf now says spoony bard, man.  Spoony.  Bard.  Epic.