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Final Fantasy Tactics: Redesign Main Discussion [Newest: HUGE GEAR EDITS!]

Started by RavenOfRazgriz, February 22, 2011, 10:03:22 am

Cheetah

This getting rid of left over CT thing seems like a big move just to fix some odd AI and allow for innate defend. But I am more than willing to see how it plays out, it shouldn't be a game breaking change or anything like that.
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RavenOfRazgriz

It is, sort of, but the Innate Defend is a big part of this for Monsters at least.

It's a big change in some regards, but like you said, it doesn't break anything.  It just means you can't try to hoard CT to manipulate when your next turn is coming up.  The only way to manipulate your next turn now is with a Squire, Dimensionalist, or the few other sources of Haste or +/-CT, adding value to those skillsets.

RavenOfRazgriz

Opening post received it's daily update.  Opening Notes for the Jobs Overview updated with a few key points, Ranger class unveiled, Oil status unveiled.  Don't miss it!

Twinees

Just read the whole first post, i like this so far.
I think the job name 'Dimensionalist' sounds a bit odd... though i couldnt really think of any other alternate names to suggest. Animalist... well that reminds me of the moogle FFTA job... maybe you could come with a new name for that?
Then again, im only a spriter, so i could be mentioning nothing that helps :P.
  • Modding version: PSX

RavenOfRazgriz

Dimensionalist is based on the fact the alternate name for Time Mage is Dimensional Mage and I'm trying to make remove all instances of "Mage" from Job titles.  Animalist is based on that Moogle Job from FFTA in terms of name, because honestly I can't think of a better one-word name for a Blue Mage.  If I do or someone else does, that shit's dying.  Otherwise, yeah.

Today's updates are posted!

Oracle Job and Undead Status!  Don't miss it!

The Damned

Oracle job looks pretty good, though I suppose it's pretty much the same aside from switching Doubt Faith (which is stupid for a magical class to have anyway) with Don't Move and Life Drain for Poison. Still, since I liked the original class, I guess I'm easy to please when it comes to Oracles.

That said, I can't say I'm too keen on using "Green Magic" as its class name, though part of that is because I'm using that name for something different myself. Why not just call it "Divination Magic" since "divination" shows up in all of descriptions? Not a huge deal, just wondering.

(Speaking of names, I'll tell you if I think up a decent replacement for "Blue Mage". I thinking of a couple, but, yeah, it's rather...difficult.)

Also good to see that Undead can shift elemental weaknesses. I'm guessing that "Airborne" status is "Jump" status and not "Float" status since otherwise that wouldn't make sense.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

Pretty much, it's kinda the same, except Range 4 single targeting and higher base hit rate / evadable.  The status selection is basically how you put it, just with some of the more broken or redundant ones removed and the ones I took away from Wizard and Dimensionalist added in.  I find this layout keeps the Swiss Army Knife that the Oracle had in Vanilla alive without it just being "lets fit every status we can into one set and pray it works."

I chose Green Magic for the skillset name because I'm avoid "-Mage" in class names but trying to use typical Final Fantasy monickers like "Black Magic", "White Magic", etc. for most of the magic based skillsets.  Divination Magic is really good as a name and is something I'm surprised I hadn't thought of already, so I'll likely go with that.

Undead does that due to the huge hack I'm using, though I rather like it because it keeps Undead consistent and I like consistent things.  Airborne is Jump, yes.  It's mostly an OCD cosmetic rename no one will see, I just like more descriptive Status names.  If any of the name changes to my Statuses aren't obvious, they go in the order they're listed in FFTPatcher when I write out the Cancel/Stack/NotOnTop lists, so yeah.  Undead and Oil are pretty beastly statuses now, though.

The Damned

Yes, I can relate about the OCD thing and I can agree about the Oracle thing as well.

The Airborne thing wasn't an unknown so much as something I wanted to confirm.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"


The Damned

It looks like Monk is merely itself with Wind and Earth elementals. Do they still have innate Martial Arts? I'm asking more because I'm not sure since I'm sure you'd probably find some way to balance them if you did.

I find it rather weird that Purify and Revive can be physical evaded and that Vitalize, Purify and Revive can all be reacted to and Counter Magiced. Typos?

Regardless, good to know that's where you putting Geomancy stuff even if Monk is possibly its same overpowered self. Also good to know about your Poison staying the same (surprisingly).
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

Purify and Revive were typos, they cannot be physically evaded.  The three skills working with Counter Magic however is not a typo.

Poison also had a minor typo, in that I had been forgetting to list CT Timers on Statuses so far.  Fixed that problem, though all three of the Statuses listed so far don't expire anyway, which is the primary change to Poison.  (The secondary one is that it no longer stacks on Undead.)

Monks indeed do have Barehanded innately (which I forgot to put in their tooltip, also fixed), and their max damage is roughly 343 with 70 Br against a 60 Br target with no defensive bonuses (maximum HP on lowest HP multiplier lowest raw HP female is 345), though the only thing I'll say about the setup needed to hit this level of damage is that I hope you enjoy your Monk being a glass-cannon.  Barehanded is also set to only be a 4/3 boost over a 3/2 one.

The Damned

I suspected as much about Poison. The Counter Magic thing will...take some getting used to, though; it seems like everyone wants to do something completely different with it.

The Barehanded thing sounds good enough, though. If Monks actually need to be glass cannon to do "only" that type of damage, then maybe that will mean something. Although, this isn't counting Two Swords or is it?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

There is no learnable Two Swords, so the only time I need to worry about that is on the two classes that have it innately.  I removed it from the general learning pool because there's little reason to use Two Hands in any situation Two Swords exists besides outright not having two copies of the weapon in question, and even then, double W-Evs usually offset that.

Counter Magic is basically becoming Double Magic, except what classifies as "Magic" is very liberal here.  If you notice, the Ranger's elemental weapon attacks are also Counter Magic-able.

It's also very likely that only Spin Fist of all things will be able to hit that damage level.  I'm 99% sure reaching that point with the Monk's Attack Command even with Gauntlets will be impossible.

Also, I lied, it's only 322 damage, not 343.

RavenOfRazgriz

New updates: Summoner Class, Fury Status!  Don't miss it!

Also, added the Hit information (Self, Ally, Enemy) to all the skills, corrected some typos here and there.  Most important is that Oil and Undead are meant to cancel Float; the reason for such will be apparent later.  Magic Swords have also been renamed to Spellblades, since that name has a bit more flair.  Undecided if I prefer it over Spellsword, though.  And I'll add a bit more variance to Summoner MP costs later, I'm undecided on them really.

The Damned

Yeah, the MP costs of things are rather difficult to decide on, especially the more long-range you make them. I'm not sure that I like the new Fairy then. Does it hit ALL allies?

With regards to Fury, I think I asked this earlier, but I don't recall (whether I did or if you responded): Is Fury replacing Berserk? Or it is this going to be like FFXII where Bravery didn't replace Berserk but instead upped damage anyway?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

The MP costs are roughly where I want them, I just think they should have a bit of variance in them.  I'd be fine leaving them as-is though.  Fairy revives 1 ally anywhere on the map instantly for 25% of their MaxHP.  Note that this is the lowest non-Phoenix Down revival percent possible, and that Fairy has one of the lowest hit rates and highest MP costs of all revival skills to compensate.  That, and Summoners are both slow and made out of paper and most other units have a hard time supporting long-term use of Summon Magic, as you can probably tell by looking at all the MPMs so far.

Fury replaces Innocent.  With Will (Faith) being used in pretty much anything that isn't Fury based, Innocent should obviously need to get the fuck out.  A Fury-based mirror of the Will (Faith) status is both simple to make and fits one of this project's motifs without deviating too far from standard Final Fantasy Tactics.  It also gives an outs to faggots who like to stack multiple defensive Supports, a bunch of evasion, and 40something Fury.  Berserk still exists, though I currently don't have it slated to appear anywhere in the generic human classes yet.

Today's updates are done, at last.  Knight Class unveiled, Will Status unveiled!  In a rare turn, I actually have a skill slot left for Knight, so if someone wants to recommend something that fits the motif well, I may just use it, as none of the skills I originally had on his chopping block beyond the six I finally chose fit what I wanted it to do.  Some edits were also made, namely to Blind Will, Blind Fury, Calm Mind, Calm Heart (Calm Mind's unposted mirror), Healing Surge, and the just-now posted Vigilance.  Namely, the Fu/Wi modding Reactions had their modifications dropped from 6 to 4, but now all of these Reactions trigger even if the attacking skill misses.  This change was made to close the power gap between them and some of the "better" Reaction Commands.

That's all for now!  Don't miss it!

The Damned

Ah, I see.

At present, you can't enact the Fury status until you and FDC are done with your massive general hack, right?
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"

RavenOfRazgriz

You could.  It's just far harder because Square has the coding competence of 3 monkeys and a beaver.  It'll be far easier to juggle things around once that's done, since technically every part of the code that would need adjusting has already been finished sans maybe one, and they're mostly very small areas.

If you look carefully at the formula I'm using, most of these classes don't operate properly without that massive general hack, and even then, a few more also need the AI hack since I can't flag-trick them into competence.  Right now I'm just designing around what I know is coming since at worst I can always revert as needed.

RavenOfRazgriz

Today's update is done!  Samurai Job, Immobilize Status, don't miss it!

Also, moved some explanations where Tooltips covered it completely on R/S and modified/unified my Ability description format to use significantly less characters, though the change probably won't be noticed by most people actually following the thread.

The Damned

The description for Immobilize is the one for Fury at present.

I'm also not understanding the description for Iaido presently.

Otherwise, Samurai as Magic Knight makes sense and is something that I can get behind.
"Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try." - FFX's Yunalesca

"Good and evil are relative, but being a dick cannot be allowed." - Oglaf's Thaumaturge in "The Abyss"

"Well, see, the real magic isn't believing in yourself. The real magic is manipulating people by telling them to believe in themselves. The more you believe, the less you check facts."  - Oglaf's Vanka in "Conviction"