Final Fantasy Hacktics

Discuss why each item is worth using. We need no useless items. Might we discard some of the earlier items to make room for new ones? All that discussed here.

crossbows right now are quite useless...

in real life the xbows are far more powerful and with more range then bows. they shot in straight line (mainly) like in the game, but are really slow to recharge.

now, what should we do with them? making them stronger, but adding to the user slow? can we make a crossbow that gives -1 (minus one ) to speed? shall we give xbows the same straight line range of guns? that wouldn't make them broken because they might still be dodged...

also crossbows are easy to use; shall we open the option to equip them to different phisical classes? (comes to mind squire, knight, geomancer, archer)

Let's discuss the matter.

Crossbow could do with a large power boost, but making FFT like real life is somewhat complicated. Are crossbows based on physical strength in real life? Nope. They are basically a heavy version of guns.

So ideally:
Knife - PA:Sp based, weak w/ negative status effects, adds speed to user
Nj swd - PA:Sp based, medium power
Sword - PA based, medium w/ several having elemental attributes
Lance - PA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H
Kn swd - PA:Br based, strong but requires 2H, adds positive statii to user
Katana - PA:Br based, medium (w/ chance to cast respective DRAW OUT skill? not for healing ones though)
*Axe - PA:Br based, strong but unstable dmg ([PA*Br/100]*[WP-F], F= 1...5)
*Hammer - PA based, medium but unstable dmg and casts skills (like power break)
Rod - PA based, weak w/ strengthen:element, can cast magic on hit
Staff - MA based, weak w/ strengthen:holy (White Magic is now holy elemental)
Stick - MA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H
Bag - PA based, medium w/ unstable damage, grants stat boosts
Cloth - PA:MA based, medium w/ 2 range but requires 2H

RANGE WPNS
Gun - WP based only, very long-range <woot magic gun for faith based wpn!>
LngBow - PA:Sp based, medium w/ long-range but requires 2H
*Xbow - WP based only, long-range and strong, but weighs you down
Harp - PA:MA based, weak w/ negative status, adds positive statii to user
Dctnry - PA:MA based, weak w/ good spells (randomly) on hit


*cannot be done at this time  

I suppose we could just make axes and flails have the same formula as swords or something. Dunno about Xbow >_>

I'd say katanas are fine as they are, they don't really need the DO spell cast on hit. Maybe they should just be PA based though and not off of PA and brave since they have lower WP than knight swords + no positive status effects. For crossbow just add some WP and a negative status effect, no need to make it so complicated.

Everything else looks cool, but I'd still like to see bags replaced with other weapons that there are few of.

Quote from: "karsten"crossbows right now are quite useless...

in real life the xbows are far more powerful and with more range then bows. they shot in straight line (mainly) like in the game, but are really slow to recharge.

now, what should we do with them? making them stronger, but adding to the user slow? can we make a crossbow that gives -1 (minus one ) to speed? shall we give xbows the same straight line range of guns? that wouldn't make them broken because they might still be dodged...

also crossbows are easy to use; shall we open the option to equip them to different phisical classes? (comes to mind squire, knight, geomancer, archer)

Let's discuss the matter.

Good ideas. To add to that, if we're going for a more realistic approach, why don't you make the crossbows 2-handed? The only one-handed crossbows in real life, were those ones used by ninjas.

Katanas are tricky. I'm suspicious of random DOs but I'm not sure what could be done with them.

It's always good to ask "why this weapon instead of..." and for Katanas I simply don't know. Maybe if they didn't trigger reaction abilities. That would kind of rock. Or if they dispelled. Which is the wind Katana? Asura? Maybe give that mv+1. Lots of options.

Rods: I like your suggestion. Plus you could have combinations like "+1 magic, randomly cast: element" or "Strengthen: fire, ice, thunder". Can you add elemental absorption to a weapon? You could have "Absorb: fire, 25% chance to cast: Spark".

Knight Swords: Maybe move some swords to this category? One Knight Sword to represent every positive status effect perhaps. Initial: Transparent. heh. Plus this category has your top Weapon Guard weapon, but I think it should be below all the cloths.

Bag: Only weapons that can grant 3 points of bonuses to stats? "+2 MA, +1 SP" or "+3 PA" etc? Might be extreme

Daggers: Agreeing with +1 spd and negative status effects for the time being. Basic dagger could be just +1 SP and blindness or something. I'd like to see a few interesting/borderline weapons here like "25% to add Sleep+transparent".

Crossbows: I mentioned this in another thread, but how about all of them have the 50% chance of knockback? Zodiac said that some testing still has to be done on that.

Axe: For some reason I thought this was going to be the stat-breaking weapon. Makes sense since you have 3 axes and 3 stats to break.

Sticks: Isn't this basically a lance? I mean you use a different stat but it's still damage in the end. I think Zodiac had a good idea for a purifying "wand" that might fit into this category. In fact he should come in here and post his weapon ideas. If you're ok with the idea of Brave/Faith altering in-battle, then maybe that's what these weapons could be good for.

Katanas have 40% w.ev, so if all the swords excluding the defender are reduced to less than 15-20%, that would be a good reason to choose a katana over a sword. Also defender should be reduced to 40% w.ev so its not too good.

I suppose the simple fact that katana are the Samurai's weapon of choice is good enough to leave them be. Samurai does have innate Two Hands. Weapon evasion could be enough.

Speaking of W.Ev, should Rods have 20% and Staves have 15%?

How about crossbows act like guns except require 2 hands and grants 50% knockback?

I'm okay with Faith/Innocent status, but not altering Brave/Faith. Not until we get a new brave cap. Faith bottom limit would be nice too.

Sounds good to me.

Get rid of the Cloths@@@

Quote from: "VincentCraven"I suppose the simple fact that katana are the Samurai's weapon of choice is good enough to leave them be. Samurai does have innate Two Hands. Weapon evasion could be enough.

Speaking of W.Ev, should Rods have 20% and Staves have 15%?

How about crossbows act like guns except require 2 hands and grants 50% knockback?

I'm okay with Faith/Innocent status, but not altering Brave/Faith. Not until we get a new brave cap. Faith bottom limit would be nice too.

I guess weapon evasion would be ok but it'd have to be a clear winner. Like, 40, to the next best which is 30. You still want the skill "equip katana" to be worth it. Plus we'd need to find a good way to distinguish Cloths. By the way, is it even possible to have a sword or something that doesn't trigger reactions?

The rest of the suggestions look good. What range for the crossbow?

He said like a gun, so that's 8 if I remember correctly. Anyways, you won't hear me complaining about crossbows anymore.

8 is WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much. Man, I was thinking like, 4 or 5.

Also, lets not get rid of cloths. It'd be better to see how much variety we can squeeze out of weapons before we decide to get rid of them.

Quote from: "Asmo X"8 is WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much. Man, I was thinking like, 4 or 5.

Also, lets not get rid of cloths. It'd be better to see how much variety we can squeeze out of weapons before we decide to get rid of them.

They only have one application (two, if the new Squires can use them), and their spaces would be better filled with other weapons.

for sticks, let's make so:

they get a tad weaker, but all sticks will protect from 2 statuses.
like the first one might protect from dark and poison
another one from stone and silence etc etc

concerning crossbows, a range of 6 would be fine, as would be making them 2 handed... maybe we could make so that their darts might give status aliment effects?

i like the idea of rod enhancing magic damages. that would give a better variety.

and in all vincent, i consider your view on the various weapons as the one to folllow as a general guideline.


Oh, and about samurai's katanas, i think we should vary kiyomori and muramasa and murasame... i don't think that adding positive statuses/healing is a katana's task...

yes they should add stats like one with poison , one with charm, etc.

Quote from: "karsten"Oh, and about samurai's katanas, i think we should vary kiyomori and muramasa and murasame... i don't think that adding positive statuses/healing is a katana's task...

I think you meant Masamune instead of Muramasa. And according to the legend of the Masamune sword, it makes lots of sense for it to give a positive status effect.

We could certainly make all but the legendary Masamune offensive. DO is already powerful, no need to make it diverse. Elmdor will be very powerful, so you may never get Masamune anyway.

Range of 6 okay for crossbow? We'll still have Night Killer and Poison Bow although I'm not so certain that we need to add more status effects if we can make the weapon have a chance to knockback.

Sticks preventing status is a nice thought.

Remember though, the formula is the one for dash, and that means damage=PA; not higher. I'm not even sure yet if that formula causes knockback or if it works with Dash/Throw Stone only.

=(

this is random but there should be a rod that heals party MP or uses duskblade to drain mp . Well just an idea!

I made Rods Wizard exclusive (as Knight swords are knight exclusive).
That works nice actually... Since give one more distinguish feature to Wizards.

One advice, while granting more options of equipment is good for the player, the AI isn't very intelligent when oit come to generate equipment.
I.e. I made archer be able to equip daggers, they end up using it instead of bows sometimes... (I were thinking about red mage in this case)

So, casting spell on attack, granting always spell, Ma bonus, strengthen elemental are all good bonuses for rods...

Aren't Wizards good enough with the highest MAM? And healing MP by hitting does sound like a fine idea, but isn't that more Staff-like?

And with Red Mage, there probably won't be too many of them as enemies anyways; though we will have to replace the Mediators.

I was looking at the accessory list and I was wondering if anyone would agree with this new scheme:

(* = Items that have changed)

Gauntlets:
Power Wrist: PA+1, SP+1 *
Genji Gauntlet: PA+2, MA+2
Magic Gauntlet: MA+2
Bracer: PA+2 *

Shoes:
Battle Boots: Mv+1, PA+1 *
Germinas Boots: Mv+1, Jump+3 *
Rubber shoes: Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots: Always: Float
Sprint Shoes: Mv+1, Speed+1 *
Spike Boots: Mv+2 *
Red Shoes: Mv+1 MA+1

Rings:
Reflect Ring: Always: Reflect, MP+30*
Defense Ring: Cancels: Sleep, Death Sentence
Magic Ring: Cancels: Silence, Berserk
Cursed Ring: Cancels: Invite. PA+1, MA+1, SP+1, Always: Undead
Angel Ring: Cancels: Darkness, Dead. Initial: Reraise

Armlets:
Diamond Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Slow, Haste. MA+1*
Jade Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Petrify
108 Gems: Cancels: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison. Strengthen: Elements
N-Kai Armlet: Cancels: Charm, Confusion. Halves: Darkness
Defense Armlet: Cancels: Don't Move, Don't Act

Mantles:
Small Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 10, Mv+1*
Leather Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, SP+1*
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 18, M.ev 18, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, Always: Regen. Weak: Fire*
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30 Always: Undead*
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 25*
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent*

Perfumes:
(Have changes been made to these yet?)
Chantage: Always: Reraise. Always: Poison*
Cherche: MA+1 Always: Reflect*
Salty Rage: Always: Protect, Always: Shell, Always: Slow*
Setiemson: Always: Haste, Weak: Elements*

I'd say most of the items are fine as they are and the ones that do need adjusting (perfumes, certain mantles, etc.) don't really need drastic changes.

Well Vincent said he wanted every item to be useful and if an item has mv+1 and another has mv+1 and jump +1 then there's a problem. The more items we make viable, the more interesting the game will be.

Why change the gengi guantlet, there is only one of them.  And it's not very easy to get.
 
You know what, than brings me to another question.  
How much cheating is done by us and is that affecting the decisions we make as far as who to give what abilities to and how powerful everything is?

For instance Draw out.  Alot of those weapons are rare anyway so what difference does it make how powerful they are if every time you use them there is an opportunity that you may no longer have them.  Masmune may be powerful but if you only had one as you should, you would be hesitant to use it outside of a big battle.

Are we doing the weapons dupe and recreating excaliburs and chaos blades?
Are we doing the job scroll glitch and mastering all the classes on level 1?
Are we gamesharking our way to all abilities and all items?

The reason i mention this is because if we are unbalancing the field by cheating.  We will never "balance" the game by editing anything.

Quote from: "huthutchuck"Why change the gengi guantlet, there is only one of them.  And it's not very easy to get.
 

Fair enough

Also, I dont quite get what you mean about cheating. Are you saying all efforts to edit items/spells etc is futile because you can cheat your way to victory? If so, that's a pretty weak argument since that could be used to undermine any decision you make. I think the best you can do is balance the game as it is played normally, and close down any avenues for cheating as they arise.

I'd love to remove the weapon dupe/item scroll glitch, but those are pure glitches, so I'm not too worried about those. What I am worried about are skills that are meant to be learned and characters that are meant to be used, but break the game anyway. So let's say we aren't cheating.

AsmoX: I think we may have discussed this before, but item availability IMO is a very important factor with items. In the original FFT, players would either upgrade items when better ones became available or save their money for the good items that are coming later. Battle Boots and Spike Boots being trumped by Germinas Boots is fine since you get the first 2 in chapter 1 and the later in, what, chapter3?

That being said, items also are dependent on character availability. Are we keeping the limited gauntlet/armlet availability in this patch? Hmm

Vincent: Yeah we talked about that while we were discussing the Blue Mage's skills I think and I tried to keep that in mind. The changes I made aren't exactly sweeping. Gauntlets still have a clear progression in bonuses, Mantles still have increasing Ev, boots with mv (now that theres an accessory with mv+2, its even more obvious) and the other categories havent really changed (except for perfumes which just got a balance).

The early items have a niche now. That's all I did.

Okay, I've thought about it for a while and I think you may be on to something; however, some of the changes you have made are a bit too much.

Bracer with just PA+2 should be okay, but Power Wrist could just be a Berserk Gauntlet.

I'm at a loss of what to do with Battle/Spike Boots, but perhaps a questionably useful immunity should be added to Germinas Boots?

Rings cannot have +MP. Magic Ring instead could have Always: Faith, but blocking Silence and Berserk is useful.

The idea of having Diamond Armlet cancel Haste as well as Slow is pretty nifty. I'd say just add immune: Haste

Mantles:
Small Mantle: P.ev 5, M.ev 5
Leather Mantle: P.ev 8, M.ev 8
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 6, M.ev 10, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 12, M.ev 12 Sp+1 Weak: All Magic
Feather Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 20, M.ev 20 Always: Undead
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent
=> Again I'm at a loss for the first two. Nearly all of the other stuff available in Chapter 1 is never used again though.

Perfumes: Chantage and Setiesmon need to be changed. In FFT Sigma I suggested Chantage have Initial: Reraise instead of Auto: Reraise, and I suggested Setiesmon have Auto: Berserk added on to the other stuff it adds.

Agreed on bracer, I think power wrist is fine as is though. Give spike boots 1mv and 2jmp so they're marginally better than the battle boots. For germinas boots I just gave them +2mv, you might think it's too much but later in the game when there are accessories that can do more useful stuff like add reraise or regen I don't think it is. Also sprint shoes need improvement, +1 spd isn't much help in chp 3. I was thinking either +1mv and spd or +2spd.

Magic ring- +1ma
Diamond armlet is fine, there's no reason to make it worse if it isn't that great in the first place.

For mantles I had the first one add 5 to each and then every one after that(except wizard mantle which didn't change) increase by increments of 5. So in the end the feather mantle had +25 of each. The undead cape is a neat idea, but it only adds 5 more evade than the previous cape. Would that really be enough of a reason to stop characters from healing themselves? I'd never even bother with the dracula cape if it were like that. And there's not really much to do for the chp1 items, they just have to suck.

Perfumes
chantage- always regen, initial reraise
cherche- always float, reflect ma+1
setiesmon- initial protect, shell
salty rage- always berserk, haste pa+1

Setiemson: initial Protect/shell?

Who'd wear that? the first turns are when you don't even receive any damage, that would make the perfume completely worthless.

I thought it would at least last long enough to be useful. I never bother casting either so I wouldn't know.
I guess we need another solution to that one then.

Spike Boots? We can just flip the point at which they are available, making Spike Boots come in very early. +2 Speed on Sprint Shoes is good, but I'm pretty stingy with move.

+1MA and +1PA is very useful for those characters who can't wear gauntlets. And with changing Magic Ring to MA+1, you have already made it completely worthless in comparison. Magic Ring originally comes after Diamond Armlet, so you may want to make Magic Ring come first. That, and +1MA is pretty useless pretty fast.

And the Dracula Cape could do with a bit more I suppose.

For Cherche, if it needs something I'd suggest Always: Faith as well. Most magic can't hit the character anyway.
What was wrong with the original always Protect and Shell? Maybe just always Protect?



=O It just hit me. Perhaps, instead of changing the items we already have why don't we make completely new items that use every cool combination we can think of, and then fit them onto the slots available? That way we could easily reduce redundancy. Renaming the items won't be hard once melonhead perfects his editor, right?  

Yeah that was my plan with the D.Mantle. Clear winner in both categories but Undead.

Just make the ev bonuses slightly more pronounced for the higher mantles since by that point in the game there's some pretty hefty competition for your accessory slot. I still think 30 30 for Drac is alright given undead, we agree on the Vanish, and maybe a compromise for the feather? 20 20? I'd use that.

And +faith on a ring is good. I never thought of that. I just wanted the Reflect Ring to stand out since Refelct is on a Perfume too.

Also, a Mv+2 item should be ok. Its a different thing to the Mv+2 and 3 supports because you have to give up your accessory slot. Arguably more vital.

Power Wrist is ok as an early +PA item and it's a long slog to the Bracer. Do what you like, of course, but my position is that +1 spd isnt going to create many waves.

The change I made to the Battle Boots make it a PA version of Red Shoes. Should there be one?

Also, I think having Permanent Status effects on Perfumes is kind of a unique thing that they should keep, but it's a matter of balancing them. Austin, your/Vincent's (whoever's) suggestion for the Chantage is perfect. Cherche, I dunno. Just Reflect and Faith maybe? The Setiemson will be useless as per Zodiacs advice and your Salty Rage is possibly too powerful? I'd drop the PA bonus.

Setiemson should keep always: Protect and Shell but we have to add something to this to make you think twice about using it for everything.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"=O It just hit me. Perhaps, instead of changing the items we already have why don't we make completely new items that use every cool combination we can think of, and then fit them onto the slots available? That way we could easily reduce redundancy. Renaming the items won't be hard once melonhead perfects his editor, right?  :P

Oh yeah, about the Mantles again, I think the early ones should start at 10 ev rather than 5. Even against other early game accessories, that's pretty useless. How you want to stagger them from there though if you want feather to be 15-20, I dont know. 25 for that would probably be alright. What is it in vanilla FFT? 40 30? Its a big difference.

I'd like the regular mantles to get up to at least 25% in each category.
The first mantle could just add 10%Pev and the second one could add something like 13Pev and 10Mev and it could just increase bit by bit from there.

Ok how about this ev setup:

Small: 15 0
Leather: 10 10
Wizard: 10 15
Elf: 15 15
Feather: 25 20
Drac: 30 30
Vanish: 25 0

You get:
1. Constantly increasing Ev bonus totals right down to Vanish
2. Small Mantle competing right up to Elf.
3. The M.ev specialty Vincent put on the Wizard mantle
4. A decent jump to the higher level mantles (Elf to Feather) without being too broken. The original Feather had better P.ev so I thought it was appropriate.

30/30
and 25/25 might be too much...

if you add a shield and abandon your can almost reach 90% evade always...
actually this depends on how we'll deal with shields too...

But you have to give up a hand, accessory slot, and reaction command slot to get to it. As long as you can't get that high evade for free it's not a problem imo.

The mantles look good, but I'd still rather have the dracula mantle as a regular mantle.

for 30 and 30 you have to be Undead. That's kind of a big deal.

Also there are plenty of "regular" mantles. Feather is still very good for just 5 points less in P.ev and 10 in M.ev. (Karsten it was 25 20. Sort of in keeping with the old Feather Mantle, just less cheap)

Which reminds me (karsten's comment) shall we lower shield evasion too? Weapon evasion shouldn't be a problem, since to use it you must give up Abandon.

And you are right Asmo: I completely forgot that the stats of the first items (like Small Mantle) were not a problem.

Well one thing that would help with shields is getting the Escutcheon 2 the hell out of the game. Or at least change it to make it interesting rather than mega powerful.

I'm thinking shield evasion shouldn't go above 40% for either category. Aegis gets the 40% m.ev and I think the Genji shield should get the 40% p.ev. The Kaiser Plate and Venetian Shield should kind of be inverse to each other (Kaiser something like 25 30, Venetian 30 25). Also, can we have a shield that absorbs Bolt? We have fire and Ice, so it seems fair. I was thinking the Diamond Shield. Maybe don't worry about giving it a "half element" bonus or a weakness though.

Also, what about a Faith Shield? Might be an incentive for mages. And I was thinking about a shield that blocks all the death attacks (instant death, death sentence, undead, blood suck etc). Maybe lower Ev for that one (10 10 maybe?) and PA+1 or something? I think we need shields to start really competing with Two Swords.

Of course, it might be wise to finalise some kind of accessory list first since we're on it. Maybe if eveyone just posts their own accessory list it might speed up discussion.

Good idea. I'll try to make a niche for each item and post my acc list soon. Anyone who does post a list, feel free to post crazy combinations and what not. Just remember: balance.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Good idea. I'll try to make a niche for each item and post my acc list soon. Anyone who does post a list, feel free to post crazy combinations and what not. Just remember: balance.

i quote. balance guys. and when creating items, always think of comboing them.

also we HAVE to weaken both shields and mantles... maybe granting to shield some benefical effects or absorbing some elements?

how about a pretty good shield that makes you have starting  blood suck so  you have to put some actual use to holywater's!

I suggest that we'll probably achieve more if we just stick to accessories for now and then move on to shields when we have a list finalised

Ok so here's my new accessory list. I tried incorporating the suggestions everyone made (Vincent, I just turned the Elf Mantle back to "weak against fire". All elements would probably turn that mantle into a net liability).

(* = Items that have changed)

Gauntlets:
Power Wrist: PA+1, SP+1
Magic Gauntlet: MA+2
Bracer: PA+2*
Genji Gauntlet: PA+2, MA+2

Shoes:  
Germinas Boots: Mv+1, Jump+1*
Spike Boots: Jump+3*
Rubber shoes: Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots: Always: Float, Strengthen: Lightning*
Battle Boots: Mv+1, PA+1 *
Red Shoes: Mv+1 MA+1
Sprint Shoes: Speed+2 *

Rings:
Reflect Ring: Always: Reflect, MA+1*
Defense Ring: Cancel: Sleep, Death Sentence. Strenghten:Holy*
Magic Ring: Always: Faith. Cancels: Silence, Berserk*
Angel Ring: Cancel: Darkness, Dead. Initial: Reraise
Cursed Ring: Cancel: Invite. PA+1, MA+1, SP+1, Always: Undead

Armlets:
Diamond Armlet: Cancel: Slow. MA+1, PA+1
Jade Armlet: Cancel: Stop, Petrify, Ice*
N-Kai Armlet: Cancel: Charm, Confusion. Halves: Darkness
Defense Armlet: Cancel: Don't Move, Don't Act, fire *
108 Gems: Cancel: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison. Strengthen: Elements

Mantles:
Safe Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 0, Cancel: Crystal, Treasure
Leather Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 10
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, SP+1. Weak: Fire*
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20*
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30 Always: Undead*
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent*

Perfumes:
Chantage: Initial: Reraise. Always: Regen*
Cherche: Always: Reflect, Always: Float*
Salty Rage: Always: Haste, Always: Berserk*
Setiemson: Always: Shell, PA+1*

Here's a question: Could we get away with MA+3 for the Magic Gauntlet or is that too much?

For some reason, those first 2 mantles are wicked hard to differentiate.

I think bracer should just be PA+2, and battle boots should just be mv+1. Otherwise that's quite a nice list, leave the magic gauntlet as is though.

Ok Bracer has been changed back. I still kind of like the idea of a physical-based item with innocent. Maybe an Always: Protect, Always: Innocent item?

Also I just have to put a case forward for the Battle Boots. If it's not convincing then I'll just change them back. Firstly, all the movement items (ones that offer jump, mv) give you really bad value per unit of progress (even going backwards in the case of the old Spike Boots) and there's really no reason not to consolidate them into one basic, early accessory that covers both types of movement.

Secondly, the new battle boots are balanced. They're the PA equivalent of the magic shoes which give comparatively less value for mv+1 since magic attackers have extreme reach with their spells. The new Battle Boots give physical attackers more value for an extra panel of movement but of course they don't have long reach so they're simply more agile melee fighters.

Maybe we could make the battle boots come out later then?  Since they're the first pair of boots I thought they should just have the basic +1mv, but if they come out when the red shoes do then they'd be fine.

Edit:Or maybe when the bracer starts being sold? I recall red shoes not being sold till chapter 4 which is kind of late.

Yeah i swapped the order of the boots around to reflect where I think they should be. Coming out with the Bracer would be ok.

Also I originally changed the name of Power Wrist to "Focus Wrist" to account for the new immunities. Any thoughts?

Quote from: "Asmo X"I suggest that we'll probably achieve more if we just stick to accessories for now and then move on to shields when we have a list finalised

Ok so here's my new accessory list. I tried incorporating the suggestions everyone made (Vincent, I just turned the Elf Mantle back to "weak against fire". All elements would probably turn that mantle into a net liability).

(* = Items that have changed)

Gauntlets:
Power Wrist: PA+1, cancel: Charm, Blind*
Magic Gauntlet: MA+2
Bracer: PA+2*
Genji Gauntlet: PA+2, MA+2

Shoes:  
Germinas Boots: Mv+1, Jump+3 *
Rubber shoes: Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots: Always: Float, Strengthen: Lightning*
Battle Boots: Mv+1, PA+1 *
Red Shoes: Mv+1 MA+1
Sprint Shoes: Speed+2 *
Spike boots: Mv+2*

Rings:
Reflect Ring: Always: Reflect, MA+1*
Defense Ring: Cancels: Sleep, Death Sentence Strenghten:Holy*
Magic Ring: Always: Faith Cancels: Silence, Berserk*
Angel Ring: Cancels: Darkness, Dead. Initial: Reraise
Cursed Ring: Cancels: Invite. PA+1, MA+1, SP+1, Always: Undead

Armlets:
Diamond Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Slow, immune: Haste. MA+1*
Jade Armlet: Cancels: Stop, Petrify, Ice*
N-Kai Armlet: Cancels: Charm, Confusion. Halves: Darkness
Defense Armlet: Cancels: Don't Move, Don't Act, fire *
108 Gems: Cancels: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison. Strengthen: Elements

Mantles:
Small Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 0
Leather Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 10
Wizard Mantle: P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle: P.ev 15, M.ev 15, SP+1. Weak: Fire*
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20*
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30 Always: Undead*
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 0, Initial: Transparent*

Perfumes:
Chantage: Initial: Reraise. Always: Regen*
Cherche: Always: Reflect, Always: Float*
Salty Rage: Always: Haste, Always: Berserk*
Setiemson: Always: Shell, PA+1*

Here's a question: Could we get away with MA+3 for the Magic Gauntlet or is that too much?

For some reason, those first 2 mantles are wicked hard to differentiate.

i think it's quite good. what do you think vincent?

by the way, i was considering the chance to give to some shields benefical effects... maybe protect, shell, regen might be candidates? this would make the equip shield more interesting and actually useful?

That's a good idea Karsten but we have to very careful about that. Since shields and accessories do not compete with each other for the same slot, you could potentially fashion a broken setup with heaps of buffs.

What I did do, however, is remove Protect from the Setiemson. I would consider it alright to put this on a shield if the shield offered little evasive protection. This means the only way to get the always: protect/shell combo would be to one-hand a weapon and give up the other slot to a shield with little evasive power. Much better than putting the effects into one broken perfume and still being able to two-sword or equip a Crystal Shield.

This of course, presumes the Robe of Lords is changed (please let it be so)

Ok guys, LastingDawn had a good idea for the Small Mantle that would be good as an early item for someone new to the game. Same stats (15 P.ev and 0 M.ev) and an immunity to Crystal and Treasure. I think it should be renamed to "Safe Mantle" as well. I've updated my list pending any negative feedback.

i glanced over you list and i have to ask, why does diamond armlet have immune haste. The rest of the bonuses do not make up for it making you immune to a beneficial status effect. Also why is vanish mantle worst than feather mantle. you only get one and the transparent only last till your first action. Finally do you mean cancel charm for cursed ring? after all no enemy ever uses invite, and it would only be useful on an enemy if they had maintenance, other wise you could just steal the ring and then invite

Originally the Feather Mantle was like 40% P.EV and 35% M.EV while the Vanish Mantle was just 35% P.EV ... so, you'd also have to ask the designers of the original game why they did it that way. I assume he's just following the original numbers and toning it down.

As for the Diamond Armlet, I personally left both PA +1 and MA +1, along with immunity to slow, stop, and haste.

Also, the Curse Ring is in it's original state. The designers of FFT put immunity to Invite. Why? Got me. Maybe it -is- better to switch it to charm...

Quote from: "Asmo X"Ok guys, LastingDawn had a good idea for the Small Mantle that would be good as an early item for someone new to the game. Same stats (15 P.ev and 0 M.ev) and an immunity to Crystal and Treasure. I think it should be renamed to "Safe Mantle" as well. I've updated my list pending any negative feedback.

That sounds like a cool idea but I think the small mantle needs to be rare if you do it. After all, enemies get them too and this could seriously save your ass in a battle since you don't have to worry about your super cool black mage dying after forgetting to save for a couple of hours (RIP Berkeley   ).

And I still don't care much for immune haste on diamond armlet, and thought it was fine with +1 PA and MA. (Didn't notice you changed it until now.)

We also had the idea for the exact opposite, Asmo came up with a Robe that automatically turns whomever wears it into a crystal. This will speed up the process of Crystal Harvesting, whether that's a good thing or not, is of course open to debate. I believe he came up with the makeshift (never will fit, but sounds nice...) Vestment of Sacrifice, of course it will need to be made rare, so some Random NPC isn't automatically turned into a crystal by the unlucky random equipment.

Quote from: "karsten"i think it's quite good. what do you think vincent?

by the way, i was considering the chance to give to some shields benefical effects... maybe protect, shell, regen might be candidates? this would make the equip shield more interesting and actually useful?

Asmo's stuff is pretty good, although I'm a bit worried about what will be available in chapter1: with all these boosts to make the initial accessories useful, the price will have to be boosted to be in line with the other equips (unless we boost them as well). In chapter1, money isn't so abundant either.

I suppose Power Wrist was fine with with Sp+1 as well. Gauntlets are more about power, not status effects, so I'd say change it back.
I'd prefer to see Spike Boots come with, say +3 Jump (and Germinas boots with +1 Jump. Perhaps +1Sp on it too?)
Your Armlets and Rings are good, except for Diamond Armlet (see Edit2). Some may be tweaked later.
+3MA for Magic Gauntlet is actually more acceptable than +3PA for Bracer, and even +3PA for Bracer is okay to keep, considering we have Sprint Shoes with +2Sp. If the unique Genji Gauntlet needs a boost to keep from being overshadowed, so be it.


A beneficial status shield is perfectly fine, but they would have to be later shields with very low (or no) shield evasion. We could call them 'Bracers' or 'Barriers.''

'Safe Mantle' sounds pretty sweet, but with that ability it would be used even with 0 Ev.  It would safe one the frustration of having to restart the game b/c someone crystallized (and also gives me an excuse to make the game harder  )

'Vestment of Sacrifice' will need a warning on it in the description. It should come, at the earliest, after one defeats Gafgarion.

Oh, and before I forget, initial: blood suck does not sound like a good idea. I'd rather see more enemies that can add Blood Suck.

[Edit: initial Innocent would work well with Mage Masher, but probably not good on an accessory.]
[Edit2: I noticed you changed Diamond Armlet back to the way it was; I'd prefer it to be like that but with immunity to Stop and Haste.]

Ok.

I changed the Diamond Armlet back to its original form by popular request. But I think this is a pretty average item. Come up with something cool for it everyone.

Spike boots jump+3

Germinas boots +1 mv and +1 jump

Returned the Power Wrist to the previous change. I want to see what others think about this though.

Come on man, we're almost there with the Mantles! Just let me put +1 move on the Leather Mantle (and then change the name). I took move from the Spike Boots as a peace offering. hah.

And lets put innocent on something. It must be done!

What? Jump+1 causes a unit to jump one panel higher. Are you talking about vertical jumping?

And we can change Leather Mantle to a different name and make it... absorb some element. Or maybe strengthen some elements.

Just saying what I did, personally with the Diamond Armlet ... +1 PA, +1 MA, and +1 Sp with the Immunities to Slow, Stop, and Haste. Just a suggestion is all. I think it's sort of neat to have 'some' items have some sort of drawback.

Sorry, I got mixed up there. Changed to 1 for the germinas boots and 3 for the spike boots

Also forgot to mention, I had nothing to do with the Curse Ring or Vanish mantles. That's they way they've always been.

Vincent: I added elemental cancels to some armlets and I think absorption should be left to shields. Kind of make it "their thing". Thinking about it now, +mv on the leather mantle wouldnt be so good.

So about pumping up the stats on the Bracer and Magic Gauntlet: Would this be more feasible if we did something to, say, armour? Like boosting the HP bonus across the board?

Leather mantle could cut lightning by 1/2 or something. It's going to be the first mantle available right? Don't want to overdo it. Adding innocent to mage masher is fine.

Also I noticed that jump is one of the things you can mess with in item attributes, so would it be possible to make items that are immune to jump?

On my patch I increased all the clothings/armors hp bonus by about 10% and I lowered the super items hp (maximillion, rubber costume, robe of lords, etc.) so they aren't way above all the other items. I decreased robes' hp bonus slightly, and I got rid of/decreased the mp bonuses on most clothing items so that you have to equip a robe if you want the mp.

Yes, we could make immune: Jump. That's an option, though what would you use it on?
Here's my list, which may answer a few of your questions.

Battle Boots- Mv+1, PA+1
Spike Shoes- Jump+3
Germinas Boots- Mv+1, Jump+1
Rubber Shoes- Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots- Always: Float, Sp+1
Sprint Shoes- Sp+2
[Edit: Red Shoes - Mv+1, MA+1]

Power Wrist- PA+1, Sp+1
Genji Gauntlet- PA+2, MA+2
Magic Gauntlet- MA+3
Bracer- PA+3

Reflect Ring- Always:Reflect, MA+1
Defense Ring- Cancel: Sleep, Death Sentence, Petrify
Magic Ring- Always: Faith, Cancel: Silence, Berserk
Cursed Ring- Always: Undead; PA+1, MA+1, Sp+1; Immune: Dark, Weak: Holy
Angel Ring - Initial: Reraise; Cancel: Darkness[Blind], Dead; Immune: Holy, Weak: Dark

Diamond Armlet- PA+1, MA+1, Cancel: Slow, Stop, Haste
Jade Armlet- Cancel: Wind, Water; Weak: Lightning
108 Gems- Cancel: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison; Strengthen: All elements
N-Kai Armlet- Cancel: Charm, Confusion Half: Dark
Defense Armlet- Cancel: Don't Move, Don't Act, Fire

Small Mantle- Cancel: Crystal, Treasure
Leather Mantle- P.ev 15 Half: Water, Lightning
Wizard Mantle- P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle- P.ev 15, M.ev 15, Sp+1, Weak: Fire
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30, Always: Undead
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 30, Initial: Transparent

^How's that? AsmoX's perfumes looked good, so I'll stop there.

Looks good, I likes it. And we could put immune jump on a shield maybe? I dunno, just seemed like a cool idea to have something like that.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"Yes, we could make immune: Jump. That's an option, though what would you use it on?
Here's my list, which may answer a few of your questions.

Battle Boots- Mv+1, PA+1
Spike Shoes- Jump+3
Germinas Boots- Mv+1, Jump+1
Rubber Shoes- Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots- Always: Float, Sp+1
Sprint Shoes- Sp+2

Power Wrist- PA+1, Sp+1
Genji Gauntlet- PA+2, MA+2
Magic Gauntlet- MA+3
Bracer- PA+3

Reflect Ring- Always:Reflect, MA+1
Defense Ring- Cancel: Sleep, Death Sentence, Petrify
Magic Ring- Always: Faith, Cancel: Silence, Berserk
Cursed Ring- Always: Undead; PA+1, MA+1, Sp+1; Immune: Dark, Weak: Holy
Angel Ring - Initial: Reraise; Cancel: Darkness, Dead; Immune: Holy, Weak: Dark

Diamond Armlet- PA+1, MA+1, Cancel: Slow, Stop, Haste
Jade Armlet- Cancel: Wind, Water; Weak: Lightning
108 Gems- Cancel: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison; Strengthen: All elements
N-Kai Armlet- Cancel: Charm, Confusion Half: Dark
Defense Armlet- Cancel: Don't Move, Don't Act, Fire

Small Mantle- Cancel: Crystal, Treasure
Leather Mantle- P.ev 15 Half: Water, Lightning
Wizard Mantle- P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle- P.ev 15, M.ev 15, Sp+1, Weak: Fire
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30, Always: Undead
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 30, Initial: Transparent

^How's that? AsmoX's perfumes looked good, so I'll stop there.

Ok this looks great. A couple of problems: First your Angel Ring looks a bit confusing. Cancel Darkness and Weak to Dark? Did you mean Cancel: Blind?

Also, your Jade Armlet seems a bit useless (unless you were planning on adding more water/wind skills to the game) but other than that this looks good.

Yeah, he meant Blind, I'm sure of it. That's why you put Darkness and then Dark(ness) Elemental.

Oh yeah, Cure is "Holy" now right? I think there should be an accessory that improves it so I put it on the Defense Ring. I kind of think it should be there and Cancel Petrify should be on the Diamond Armlet. You need another big one to balance out the Cancel: Haste bit anyway.

Edit: A couple more things:

1) It would probably be ok to take the lightning weakness off the Jade Armlet if you don't want to increase the threat of water/wind elements

2) You don't have Magic Shoes on your list. You still want them there right? Also, in what order do you want the boots to come out? In my opinion you should either: a) have Geminas Boots be the basic footwear and have Battle boots/Magic Shoes come out at the same time later in the game or b) make the magic shoes come out at the start of the game instead of the Battle Boots. Otherwise you have two PA+1 items out first in Power Wrist and Battle Boots.

Edit the second:
I should not skip over things in the future. Can we make the Leather Mantle immune to Jump and halve Lightning? That would be cool. Then change the name to something that indicates not being hit from above. "Hooded Mantle" or something.

First of all, the official name for the status that impedes vision is Darkness, but to clarify: the Angel Ring is immune to the status effect that the skill Blind adds.  :?

Now that we (almost) have accessories in place, it's time for the body/head wear and shields.

hah. My bad. As you were.

About the staffs, that would be fine anyway. That way the Defense Ring would serve a similar purpose if you were subbing something with holy magic in a job that didn't equip staffs. Good to have that option too. Unless....they stack...or something. Which would be bad. Also, if White Magic cure is Holy element, how will "immune: holy" work?

I think shields were next since everyone was pretty keen on those. What I notice immediately about shields is that they offer ev bonuses of almost pointless increments. See: Bronze Shield > Round shield. Would it be possible to actually take some of these items and make them other things entirely? E.g weapons? Anyway, here's my opening serve:

Escutcheon: P.ev 10, M.ev 10. Strengthen: Fire. Half: Ice. Cancel: Stop
 
Buckler: P.ev 15, M.ev 10. Strengthen: Lightning. Half: fire. Cancel: Berserk
 
Round Shield: P.ev 10, M.ev 15. Strengthen: Ice. Half: Lightning. Cancel: Dont Move
 
Venetian Shield: P.ev 10, M.ev 12. Half Fire, Dark. PA+1

Storm Shield: P.ev 15, M.ev 15. Absorbs: Wind, Water. Half: Lightning
 
Ice Shield: P.ev 15, M.ev 15. Absorbs: Ice. Half: Fire. Weak: Lightning

Flame Shield: P.ev 10, M.ev 15. Absorbs: Fire. Half: Ice. Weak: Water

Blast Shield: P.ev 20, M.ev 20. Absorbs: Lightning. Half: Wind. Weak:Fire.

Aegis Shield: P.ev 10, M.ev 33. MA+1

Gold Shield: P.ev 10, M.ev 0. Always: Protect

Crystal Shield: P.ev 28, M.ev 28. Cancel: Ice

Drab Shield: P.ev 20, M.ev 20. Absorb: Dark, Holy. Cancel: Poison

Genji Shield:P.ev 33, M.ev 10

Kaiser Plate: P.ev 22, M.ev 25. Strengthens: Fire, Lightning, Ice

Mythril Shield: P.ev 25, M.ev 22. Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice

Escutcheon 2: P.ev 5, M.ev 5. Always: Innocent. Cancel: Elements, Silence.


Changes:
- I decided to go with an elemental theme but of course, I'm flexible about that, pending everyone else's ideas.

- Bronze Shield > Drab Shield, Diamond Shield > Blast Shield, Platinum Shield > Storm Shield.

-All the ev% are squeezed between 10 and 33 except in special circumstances, e.g the Gold Shield.

-With the Escutcheon 2, the idea is that you will take extra healing from fire/ice because of Faith status. Will that work?

-Similar question about "weak to holy". Does that mean extra curing power?

-With the early shields, I added status cancels that I thought were fitting with the elements halved.

-Swapped the order around a bit. Didn't think terribly hard about it but it looks ok.

-Gave the Ice/Fire/Blast/Storm Shields different Ev ratings based on what weaknesses they had and what they defended. Absorb Wind isn't as good as Absorb Fire. Weak to Lightning sucks more than Weak to Water.

-Crystal Shield is technically "the best" if you total the ev. Threw in an ice cancel but I mostly think it will stand as a pure evasion tool.

-Tried not to throw in too many positive effects, stat boosts, or stat cancels. By doing that you risk unbalanced combinations with Accessories in particular. I think shields should attempt to keep the elemental thing going.

Mythril items are usually magic inclined in FF games, but that's just preference. Always: protect on gold shield would be too good, always: shell would probably be better since you take less magic hits then physical.

Honestly, I'd rather not have always:protect or shell on anything, but if its got to be one...

Also I think escutcheon 2 should be the item we give always innocent to. Always faith is a neat idea, but always innocent would cut down most magic attacks power by quite a lot.

And strengthen:element isn't going to be very practical for warriors unless we add in more elemental swords/weapons (which I think we really should).

I'll swap the names of Mythril Shield and Venetian Shield. That's more Magicky.

Also, I was a bit concerned about the Gold Shield, but I figure crap evasion plus forced one-hand means you're giving up quite a bit to have it. It's way better than having protect and shell on a perfume. But I'll take some more votes and change it as I did with the Diamond Armlet if thats what people want.

Come to think of it, I like the idea of innocent on the Escutcheon 2 as well. hmmm. I really wanted to make a shield a mage would consider using though. This is difficult

My reasoning for those first strengthen element shields is to encourage Mages to use Equip Shield in the early game. They get a boost to an element plus defense against an element. It'd be worth considering. Then later on, you might go back and use one with a Knight with (as you say) an elemental sword. I agree that more should be added.

Most 'heavy armors' should be immune to Performing, since in real life, it'd be extremely hard to dance in armor.

I like the idea of the Ice shield powering up the Ice brand.

Zodiac: Do you mean you want the Ice Shield to strengthen Ice on top of what it currently does, or do you just want a shield called "Ice Shield" that strengthens Ice?

Yes, that almost looks readable.

I'm not sure myself. I don't think that would make it more broken but just more usable later.

Always: Faith would work in absorbing more, but I also think Always: Innocent would be better for the ultimate shield. I believe there are some attacks that could be canceled by adding 'cancel: All elements'   to that as well.

I just tested, and it seems that only strengthen: holy on the user has any effect on healing spells that are holy elemental.

Immune to Performing? Maybe, but I think a Knight can Sing just fine in shining armor.

Elemental Swords is great idea.
1) Strengthen weapon with appropriate shield
2) Makes this weapon more difficult to use (avoid enemies that enjoy your element)

Ok I'll change the Escutcheon 2 to Innocent, cancel: elements and immune:silence

Drab Shield will have to be changed then. Absorb Dark and Holy I'm thinking. Powerful elements but not used often. And a good thing for some enemies to have as well (so you can't Holy the shit out of them). Maybe an immunity to Poison too just because it feels right.

If you go that way with the swords, maybe there should be more enemies that defend elements. Right now, the threat of coming across enemies good to your setup isn't that great.

yes to more element strengths. I'll get it l8r though

I like many of your things; however, I prefer this:

Name             P.Ev   M.Ev   Effects
Escutcheon        10     10     Cancel: Confusion
Buckler           15     10     Cancel: Don't Act
Mythril Shield    10     15     Cancel: Berserk
Storm Shield      15      0     Absorb&Strengthen: Wind, Water
Ice Shield        15      0     Absorb&Strengthen: Ice; Half: Fire; Weak: Wind
Fire Shield       15      0     Absorb&Strengthen: Fire; Half: Ice; Weak: Water
Blast Shield      20      0     Absorb&Strengthen: Lightning; Half: Water; Weak: Fire
Platina Guard      0      0     Always: Protect; Weak: Ice
Celestial Shield  15     15     Absorb&Strengthen: Dark, Holy
Aegis Shield      10     30     MA+1
Diamond Shield    10     10     PA+1
Crystal Guard      0      0     Always: Shell
Genji Shield      30     20
Kaiser Plate      20      5     Always: Faith; Strengthen: Fire, Lightning, Ice
Venetian Shield   25     25     Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice
Magic Seal         0    100     Always: Innocent; Cancel: elements (minus Earth)For the first 3 shields, I gave each an immunity that doesn't deal with movement. If anything, it should be easier to stop a guy with a shield in his tracks. They have a niche, but it's nothing spectacular.

We now have a shield to strengthen every element (except Earth, which is completely excluded from shields). I changed Ice Shield's weakness to put it in line with Fire Shield. Drab would be a good name if it only dealt with Dark, but I prefer Celestial.

Always: Protect is a bit too good w/o a downside. I figured I'd help out Ice a bit. I also thought an Always: Shell shield was appropriate.

Is Kaiser Plate too good? I thought Always: Faith was appropriate there.

The final shield (Escutcheon=>Magic Seal) completely stops magic. I think Innocent pretty much negates any magic using, so no Silence.



^How's that? Thanks Asmo for your ideas.

[Edit: I changed a few things]

QuoteMagic Seal         0    100     Always: Innocent; Cancel: elements (minus Earth)

Isn't that redundent? Innocent alone stops all magic, why put 100% evade against magic? The canceling makes sense, since weapons will have elementals on them, but ... you don't need both 100% evade and innocent.

I think the shield will pop up, but I could be wrong.

With 100% magic evade I'm pretty sure you can dodge Aqua Soul and its counterparts 100% of the time.

Yeah that looks awesome. That Kaiser Plate is going to Wreak absolute havok though. hah.

Here's what I would do. Take 15 points from the Kaiser Plate's M.ev. Give 5 to the Storm Shield's P.ev, and 5 to each stat of the Crystal Guard.

Also, one thing with the Drab/Bronze Shield: one of the reasons I chose the name is because of the amount of letters. I didn't think you could lengthen a word without running into glitches. If i'm right about that, you could use something like "Astral" or "Radial", if not, disregard.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"I think the shield will pop up, but I could be wrong.

Oh! Nevermind mind then! I just woke up, so sorry if I sounded a bit.. uh, forward. Though I hope it doesn't block Aqua Soul and stuff. >.> I don't think that was the point, was it? Might need to test that out!

Ah yes, the text limitations could be a problem.  I think I may be able to take away some from a few places, but I may end up with a net gain of too many letters. 'Astral' sounds like a good back-up plan.

The Crystal Guard may be okay as-is, but I took your advice on the other stuff. Now I just need karsten to show up and give his opinion.

And Aqua Soul is magic, so I don't see why not. It IS the ultimate shield still.

I suppose... I always looks at it more like a spell-like ability, but.. that is still magic, hm. Well, no problems then. ^_^

Let it be. This is a good list. Until other people come in and throw their hats into the ring on the shield issue, I think we can get cracking on the elemental swords.

I'm good with the shield list. For starters on elemental swords we could make coral sword actually cast its spell and we could make the blood sword into a flametongue.

I'd vote blood sword changes to darkness, myself ... but I also have the view of seeing things like that as evil. Whatever you guys decide, I think you should just remember two things ... keep the elementals mostly even and based it off of the names & feel you get from weapons. That's what I think anyways. *Nods*

blast sheild should be weak earth, i think it makes more since than weak fire (after all lightning can cause fire) also its more in line with the other elemental sheild in that the have a weakness to an uncommon element.

Actually, Prinny makes a good point but I'm thinking in the opposite direction. The Absorb Ice/Lightning/Fire Shields should each be weak to the remaining element of the "big 3". So if you Absorb fire and halve ice, you should be weak to lightning. I mean those shields are just going to be too good otherwise. They now stengthen element too so you could make a practically risk-free elemental powerhouse of a knight.

a: Ice, h: Lightning, w: Fire
a: Lightning, h: Fire, w: Ice
a: Fire, h: Ice, w: Lightning

in other words. Absorb wind/water gets a free pass out of any weakness of course. Anyway, what does everyone else think?

And by the way, the one-handed swords are tough to sort out. How do you make them elementally focused without stepping on the turf of wizard rods?

Wizard Rods as support perhaps? I think 100% success of adding a low level status like blind or poison would be alright since you're asking them to get right into harms way. Then you can make the Staffs cancel ailments on hit.

Anyway, back to the swords...

I think that's fine since there aren't that many wind and water attacks anyways. For elemental swords, I think there should be one for each shield. We already have ice and lightning so that leaves fire, wind/water, and dark/holy. Like suggested before blood sword could be fire or dark, and the nagrarock could be changed for something since it's really just a novelty anyways.

Holy/ Dark. I'm an idiot. I've been sitting here for ages trying to sort this list out and i forgot all about those.

The problem with making the blood sword elemental is that it can be strengthened. Is that something people really want? It's already one of the best swords.

Broad Sword: WP: 5, W.ev: 5. E: Lightning, Cs: Bolt, MA+1

Ancient Sword: WP: 6, W.ev: 5. E: Fire, Cs: Fire, MA+1

Lave Sword: WP: 8, W.ev: 7. E: Water, Cs: Quicksand

Mythril Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 7. E: Earth, Cs: Local Quake

Long Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 15. E: Wind, Cs: Kamaitachi

Ice Brand: WP: 11, W.ev: 10. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Coral Sword: WP: 12, W.ev: 10. E: Lightning, Cs: Bolt2

Rune Blade: WP: 13, W.ev 15. MA +2

Sleep Sword: WP: 14, W.ev: 10. E: Holy, A: Sleep

Faint Sword: WP: 14, W.ev: 10. E: Dark, A: Slow

Blood Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 5. Always: Drain

Materia Blade: WP: 10. W.ev: 10. E: Wind, MA+2

Flametongue: WP: 10, W.ev: 33. E: Fire, Cs: Fire3

Nagrarock: WP: 9, W.ev:20. E: Water, Cs: Water Ball, Add: Frog

E = Element
A = Add
Cs = Cast

Platinum Sword > Flametongue
Diamond Sword > Faint Sword
Iron Sword > Lave Sword

This list is a bit experimental I suppose. The Geo skills feel slightly more appropriate than normal magic.

The new Nagra is less gimmicky, and has a slightly better chance of frogging the enemy.

Added a Flametongue with a solid W.ev. I think each category should have a clear winner in that area.

For blood sword I meant to just completely revamp it so it'd be a regular sword with fire element.

As for your list it looks pretty good, but I think the materia blade should have a magic bonus for cloud's limit skills, and I'd prefer for the holy/dark swords to be the best swords, but that's a minor complaint.

Yeah that sounds good actually. I'll swap the holy/dark swords to give them the best stats. And how much MA for the Materia Blade? will +1 do?

Also, I vote we keep the Blood Sword. It's unique and adds a bit of interest to the list but I'll see what everyone else thinks and change it if thats what's needed.





[Edit]: Actually, does the attack power jump to 10 too quickly? I might have to stagger this list differently in that area

I'd say at least +2, I assume we're going to do the same thing to Cloud where he can use his skills with a regular sword, so it needs to be on even ground with the rune blade at the very least.

i agree with the shields. we should make them final.

for swords i'm against so many of them casting spells...

nagrarock-water
rune blade-holy
ancient sword-dark
iron sword-wind
sleep sword-fire
coral sword-bolt
ice brand-ice

With this we cover all the elements we need to and still have a few non elemental swords. I didn't figure out what to change statwise though.

So maybe start with a list like this then? Only 3 castings in this one:

Broad Sword: WP: 5, W.ev: 5.

Iron Sword: WP: 6, W.ev: 5. E: Fire

Lave Sword: WP: 8, W.ev: 7. E: Water

Mythril Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 7. E: Earth

Long Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 15. E: Wind

Ice Brand: WP: 11, W.ev: 10. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Coral Sword: WP: 12, W.ev: 10. E: Lightning, Cs: Bolt2

Diamond Sword: WP: 13, W.ev 15. MA +2

Rune Blade: WP: 14, W.ev: 10. E: Holy, A: Sleep

Ancient Sword: WP: 14, W.ev: 10. E: Dark, A: Slow

Blood Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 5. Always: Drain

Materia Blade: WP: 10. W.ev: 10. E: Wind, MA+2

Flametongue: WP: 10, W.ev: 33. E: Fire, Cs: Lava Ball

Nagrarock: WP: 9, W.ev:20. E: Water, Add: Frog


That isn't complete, of course. You've got elements represented solely by poor weapons

Which do you mean? They all look like they're on at least one decent weapon.

Wind and Earth.

I mean the Materia Blade is going to be good with that MA bonus but that's Cloud's.

I'm starting to wonder if it's a good idea to focus on all the elements. If we only focused on the big three and holy and dark it'd be much easier to organize these.

QuoteThe problem with making the blood sword elemental is that it can be strengthened. Is that something people really want? It's already one of the best swords.

When did you come to this conclusion? It's... okay, but I personally wouldn't of counted it one of the best swords myself. I mean, I usually steal it and use it for a little while, but once something else like the knight swords come along, I can't bring myself to use it over them ... I can barely bring myself to use it over a rune blade, even. It only has 8 weapon power...

I'm not attacking you, honestly. I'm just curious why you consider it one of the best swords, is all, just to learn your viewpoint.

Hp absorption in weapon=teh bombz

Yeah, but by that time... enemies are doing enough that you have to use spells/potions anyways, from what I remember or you kill'em so fast that the HP absorb is practically pointless anyways, lol. Maybe it's just me.

Quote from: "Lydyn"Yeah, but by that time... enemies are doing enough that you have to use spells/potions anyways, from what I remember or you kill'em so fast that the HP absorb is practically pointless anyways, lol. Maybe it's just me.

In my playthrough with only two people (I'm not skilled enough for a Ramza solo trial, nor do I think it that much fun) Ramza's bodyguard is a White Mage with Equip Sword, and though the Diamond Sword is available and such, the Blood Sword is still my sword of choice. In my opinion it should be a unique weapon as to it's power. That can only be stolen from Gafgarion at the Execution Site. It was always one of my favorite ideas for a weapon, and it was the closest thing, once upon a time a fair player got to a Dark Knight.

Yeah, I'm sure that changes things ... while I probably could play with only 1-2 characters, I just find it more enjoyable with all five slots filled, myself.

Alright, see what you think about these changes:

QuoteLong Sword: WP: 5, W.ev: 10.

Broad Sword: WP: 4, W.ev: 15.

Spatha: WP: 7, W.ev: 10.

Ice Brand: WP: 7, W.ev: 10. E: Ice, Cs: Ice

Tempest Sword: WP: 8, W.ev: 10. E: Lightning, Cs: Bolt

Mythril Sword: WP: 10, W.ev: 15. MA+2

Diamond Sword: WP: 11, W.ev 33. E: Wind

Rune Blade: WP: 13, W.ev: 10. E: Holy, A: Sleep

Ancient Sword: WP: 13, W.ev: 10. E: Dark, A: Slow

Loam Sword: WP: 15, W.ev: 15. E: Earth

Blood Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 10. Always: Drain

Materia Blade: WP: 10. W.ev: 10. MA+3

Flametongue: WP: 12, W.ev: 20. E: Fire, Cs: Lava Ball

Nagrarock: WP: 14, W.ev:20. E: Water, Add: Frog

Sleep Sword > Flametongue
Iron Sword > Loam Sword
Platinum Sword > Tempest Sword
Coral Sword > Spatha

Quote from: "Lydyn"Yeah, I'm sure that changes things ... while I probably could play with only 1-2 characters, I just find it more enjoyable with all five slots filled, myself.

Good luck trying to do that on this patch.  :P

Asmo: None too shabby, though I'd rather see Mythril Sword with +1MA and Diamond Sword with the highest W.Ev (no element). Materia Blade is a rare item, and just having Wind elemental over the Diamond Sword isn't exactly an advantage.

Also, since Weapon Guard replaces Abandon and Swords are the primary weapon for Knight, I think the base W.Ev should be 10%

Only other thing I'm not sure about is the Weapon power.  Other than that, good job.

[Edit: Geez Asmo, at this rate we may have to call it the VKA patch. I'm glad we have similar interests: your work saves me much time!]

Made the changes

What do you think about MA+2 for the Mythril Sword and MA+3 for the Materia Blade? MA+1 might not be as attractive for magic casters as the old rune blade. And since theres only 1 Materia Blade, it should be alright.

Yeah the weapon power jumps up too quickly by the looks of it. In the original, there were 7 swords before the WP hit 10. What do you want to do about that?

Also, yeah I was wondering what was going to happen to abandon. Weapon Guard seems less broken and gives another means of differentiating weapons from each other. Abandon as an innate for some class perhaps?

Hopefully this list is ok with Karsten now with the limited casts.

Edit: I got an assist from LastingDawn when I put that together.

Quote from: "VincentCraven"[Edit: Geez Asmo, at this rate we may have to call it the VKA patch. I'm glad we have similar interests: your work saves me much time!]

doesn't sound to bad actually

Staves:

Oak Staff: WP: 0, W.ev: 5. Str: Holy, Add 100%: Float
 
White Staff: WP 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Cancel on hit 100%: Undead, Blood Suck
 
Healing Staff: WP: 4, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Restores HP
 
Rainbow Staff: WP: 4, W.ev 5. Str: Holy. Formula 4B: Heal_(Rdm(1..9)) 100%
 
Wizard Staff: WP: 5, W.ev: 5. Str: Holy, MA+1
 
Gold Staff: WP: 9, W.ev 20. Str: Holy

Mace of Zeus: WP: 0, W.ev: 15. Formula 4F: Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) Hit_(MA+X)% (Shock)


Sage Staff: WP: 0, W.ev 15. Str: Holy, Add 100%: Vanish

Ok a bit unconventional. Remembered your str: Holy, Vincent and Zodiac's Purifying Wand (cancel blood suck and undead). I thought a couple of inflicted buffs would be interesting too.

It appears that the 100% formula doesn't allow weapon damage but like, does anyone care about that for staves?


Bonus: Harps

Fairy Harp: WP: 0, W.ev: 15. Add 100%: Regen

Bloody Strings: WP: 13, W.ev: 10. Drains HP

Ramia Harp: WP: 15, W.ev: 10. Add: Charm

Didn't change much. Swapped the order and added an evasion winner.

Hmm, while these are great ideas, the only thing that worries me is the continuous strengthen Holy. There are only 4F (79) with 49 worth of them (73) being used. Item attribute slots to use 6 of them on Strengthen Holy, seems a rather large waste to me.

100% cast shock can't be done, whoever you can give it its formula.

As for your 25% cast revive, that would only be good agaisnt the undead at most... unless you plan to kill your own characters fatal wounded to ahve 25% chance to revive them... remember you need to HIT the target for the spell to launch. You could try giving it phoenix down's formula?

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Hmm, while these are great ideas, the only thing that worries me is the continuous strengthen Holy. There are only 4F (79) with 49 worth of them (73) being used. Item attribute slots to use 6 of them on Strengthen Holy, seems a rather large waste to me.

Good thing we can use the same slot for all but the Wizard Staff.  You did know that, right?


I'll go over your staves in a bit Asmo, but I think Zodiac hit the problems.

Haha! How could I forget... good call, Vincent, I somehow forgot all about that...

I figured the Rainbow Staff would be alright against Undead. Maybe if it casts something higher like Raise2.

haha. Yeah I was about to come in here and mention that LastingDawn gave me a hand again. The Mace of Zeus was one of his. 25% chance to cast it would be alright I suppose but I'll wait to see what Vincent has in mind.

Okay, for staffs Mace of Zeus is nice if we can change the formula to Shock's formula. Can we give Rainbow Staff Phoenix Down's formula? Raise 25% could work too: not everything has to have a particularly useful niche. I'd have to test such things to make sure these work the way we want....

Ah. Let's just pretend that they work so that we can release the Beta quicker.  The harps look good.  What I'm worried about is what we are going to do to balance helmets and armor in this fashion. So many niches are being taken up, the armor has no other place to live.

Good changes for the staffs there. Yeah, PD formula sounds great.

Helmets and armour. The Storm on the Horizon. Higher HP bonuses I think but that only delays the problem of doing something meaningful with the category. Maybe ditch those hatst that block heaps of status effects and distribute them among helmets.

Also can I just get a general idea of what each weapon category should do? So at least we know how to continue.

I know daggers were looking at +1spd and status effects.

How about Rods MA+1 and 100% chance of low tier status effects like Blind or Poison?

Just an idea:

What about making all equipment take away different amounts of speed, sortof like Tactics Ogre? Heavier equipment would decrease more, while things like certain clothes and daggers would take away 1, or even nothing. Players could make equipment decisions based on that, so even weapons with lower attacks might be used.

Oh, how I wish I could take speed away. Sorry about the Edit. I started saying I was going to work on monsters, but I will do that after I get the stuff to release the alpha version. >.>

I suppose helmets will have to have some really pathetic bonus on a few of them, but Idk. Perhaps nothing.

Daggers +sp & status effects
Nj Swd ???
Kn Swd: replace Auto-Haste w/ Auto-Regen on Excalibur; Chaos Blade w/ nothing but raw power; Defender with only really high W.Ev
Katana can cast DO? Idk
Axe? Lots of pwr but poor bonuses?
Rod cast spell on hit & MA bonus/ Str element
Flail = Fail
=>but srsly, Idk what to do w/ them
Cbow status effects
Longbow - ? perhaps play with range a bit?
Books - always cast spells?
Spear - positive status on user? +Jump?
Stick - block status effects?
Bags - worthless
Cloths - helps Dancers dance? Various bonuses/protections.

I didn't put a whole lot of thought into this, but I assure you I'll come back to it.
[Wait, if Tactics Ogre can do that, does that mean TO is actually better? I better play that game sometime.]

Quote from: "NeedsMoreNoise"Just an idea:

What about making all equipment take away different amounts of speed, sortof like Tactics Ogre? Heavier equipment would decrease more, while things like certain clothes and daggers would take away 1, or even nothing. Players could make equipment decisions based on that, so even weapons with lower attacks might be used.

I thought about that but the bonus stats are unsigned...

As they are unsigned that means only positive values which means from 0 to 255. If it were signed, it could have been from -128 to 127.

Tactics Orge is better in some ways, but overall I find Final Fantasy Tactics not only better, but also more complex and overall more challenging. The only 'challenging' part of Tactics Orge on a large scale is trying to level up you dang guys ... takes .. for .. ever! The final boss is only level 35 though and the max for T.O. is level 50. If you're guys are level 50, you pretty much whip his arse.

Never the less, it is fun in it's own way. It's probably be much less editable and exciting though. There's not all that much different in the classes besides who's good at magic and who's not. *Shrug*

Edit: Oops, forgot to give my ideas on the flails, lol. Maybe make it so that they all cast spells, like the flame whip - on chance? So, it's not 100% chance they will, but they have the power + chance of casting a spell. It's make them a bit more useful... I'd also change it to a steady damage. Though that might be personal - I always hated the fact that it could read 50 damage but you could do anywhere from 15-85. >.<

My thoughts:
Daggers- +sp & status effects
Nj Swd- They're fine
Kn Swd- replace Auto-Haste w/ Auto-Regen on Excalibur; Chaos Blade w/ nothing but 30wp; Defender with only really high W.Ev (50%), can't be 2-sworded
Katanas- 40%W.ev, can't be 2-sworded
Axe- Lots of pwr + auto-berserk
Rod cast spell on hit & MA bonus/ Str element
Flail- A Bit more pwr + low level magic spell
Cbow- status effects + 5 range, more wp on low level Cbows
Longbow - They're fine too
Books - 4 range, some more wp
Spear - High level spears are weaker, same otherwise
Stick - block status effects?
Bags - make into new weapons, they suck too much to do anything else with
Cloths - Various bonuses/protections, high W.ev

Axes:
with formula 2D; WP*PA damage, 100% add status
Battle Axe: 8WP 100% Add Blind/Silence/Slow
Giant Axe: 12WP 100% Add Confusion/Don't Move/Don't Act
Slasher: 16WP 100% Add *Cursed

Forced 2 Hands

*The Cursed status would block and cancel all possible positive status, using the Dark/Evil looking status in FFTPatcher.

I really want some weapons to have 100% add status and crossbows might be good too but it's pretty hard to recover from an axe smash don't you think?

No kidding. Does the / mean OR or AND? If it's OR, then it looks nice.

Wouldn't that make them - espeically the Giant Axe - a wee bit overpowered? Man, I'd use the Giant Axe on all my characters if it did those crazy combinations!

Quote from: "Zodiac"Axes:
with formula 2D; WP*PA damage, 100% add status
Battle Axe: 8WP 100% Add Blind/Silence/Slow
Giant Axe: 12WP 100% Add Confusion/Don't Move/Don't Act
Slasher: 16WP 100% Add *Cursed

Forced 2 Hands

*The Cursed status would block and cancel all possible positive status, using the Dark/Evil looking status in FFTPatcher.

I really want some weapons to have 100% add status and crossbows might be good too but it's pretty hard to recover from an axe smash don't you think?

I'm not sure if every weapon having some element, status effect, or spell is such a good idea. I know it'd be nice for some to, but definitely not for all. I do think there should be a couple new axes, though, and maybe one that casts one of the last four Break skills. Maybe one of the daggers could be called "Lightbringer", and it would be Holy element with a chance of casting Seal Evil.

Only the Geomancer and squires can equip axes... none are strong armored fighter. For the other jobs you'd have to sacrifice the shield slot, and a support ability. I think that's a good price to pay. And by the way, spells have high chance to hit.. the axe's only advantage is that there is no wait... pretty much like beowulf's spell but with evasion considered and attack range.

And yeah obivously "/" = OR. If I meant and, I would've used ",".

Quote from: "Zodiac"Only the Geomancer and squires can equip axes... none are strong armored fighter. For the other jobs you'd have to sacrifice the shield slot, and a support ability. I think that's a good price to pay. And by the way, spells have high chance to hit.. the axe's only advantage is that there is no wait... pretty much like beowulf's spell but with evasion considered and attack range.

And yeah obivously "/" = OR. If I meant and, I would've used ",".

Are you not planning on eventually incorporating the Berserker class in place of Mime?

Um, sorry for misunderstanding... no need to get snappy. >.< I would say more about the axe subject, but I'd rather not get snapped at again.

I mean, if you're really not and I'm.. misunderstanding again, that's fine. If you are though, I'll just... uh, keep my opinions to myself with your suggestions. *Nods*

Quote from: "NeedsMoreNoise"Are you not planning on eventually incorporating the Berserker class in place of Mime?

Me? No. Karsten? Don't know but he can't replace mime with anything right now.

I doubt those axes would make berserkers very strong or even useful... their AI is kinda stupid.

Quote from: "Zodiac"

Quote from: "NeedsMoreNoise"Are you not planning on eventually incorporating the Berserker class in place of Mime?

Me? No. Karsten? Don't know but he can't replace mime with anything right now.

I doubt those axes would make berserkers very strong or even useful... their AI is kinda stupid.

It depends on what you're referring to as a Berserker, though. Some of us have made posts regarding the idea of an actual controllable character. Recently, I came up with this: http://auritech.fantopolis.com/viewtopic.php?t=214&start=40. For my personal patch, it'll replace Bard for males, while a Valkyrie or a Druid will replace females...I'm still deciding, though.

It's sad, but it is true: not every item can be useful by the end.

[edit]

Ok here are some Rod ideas (shouldn't we leave Str: element to shields and other special pieces of equipment?):

Rod: WP 3, W.ev 20. MA+1

Poison Rod: WP 0, W.ev 5. MA+1, Add 100%: Poison

Thunder Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Bolt3

Flame Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Fire 3

Ice Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Ice 3

Wizard Rod: WP 4, W.ev 5. MA+2, Formula 2F: Absorb MP(PA*WP)

Faith Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Always: Faith

Dragon Rod: WP 9, W.ev 10. MA+1, PA+1. Formula: Tail Swing: Damage = PA * (1..15) (50% chance of knockback)


Zodiac's axes should use (in my opinion):

Battle Axe: WP 8, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Slow

Giant Axe: WP 12, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Don't Move

Slasher: WP 16, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Cursed

Rage Axe: WP 20, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Darkness. Always: Berserk

Silver Bow > Rage Axe.

Idk about that WizardRod formula, but everthing else looks nice. I hope karsten checks to see what he says about it.

I dont think i wrote that properly. It means it does the target's current MP in HP damage, 100% of the time. So I guess it has the added bonus of accuracy while not being too overpowered against melee units. Besides, you still get the MA+2 bonus on that weapon.

Quote from: "Asmo X"I dont think i wrote that properly. It means it does the target's current MP in HP damage, 100% of the time. So I guess it has the added bonus of accuracy while not being too overpowered against melee units. Besides, you still get the MA+2 bonus on that weapon.

What would happen if you whacked a Zodiac monster? ._.

Massive pain, I assume. (yes, it needs to be changed)

Have it ... damage MP instead of HP? I don't know.. I don't even know what barely any of the weapon formulas do, most of them look completely blank to me.

ok changed it to 2F. Absorb MP. Shouldnt be too bad.

Dagger: WP 3, W.ev 15. Add: Poison

Mythril Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. MA+1

Blind Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Blind
 
Mage Masher: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Silence

Main Gauche: WP 6, W.ev 30. SP+1

Assassin Dagger: WP 7, W.ev 20. SP+1, Add: Dead

Air Knife: WP 9, W.ev 20. SP+1, Element: Wind. Cs: Kamaitachi

Platina Dagger: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+1, Add: Confusion

Orichalcum: WP 12, W.ev 20. SP+1

Zorlin Shape: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+2


How does this look?

I think you should hold off on the speed bonus until the platina dagger, just so there's a bit more progression, and how about making the zorlin shape have +2spd?

Doesn't sound too bad. But what if you equipped 2 Zorlin Shapes, Sprint shoes, and a Thief Hat?

Maybe drop Zorlin's Atk power. Also, after hearing a suggestion from Zodiac, I think the Sprint shoes should be +1 spd and initial: haste. So it's more about promoting the first turn. This will (somewhat) stop the aforementioned double Zorlin Shape combo from being stupid.





Edit: Might wait til Vincent gets back to see what he says about taking speed from the early daggers

Edit again: Changed the Fairy Harp to an old suggestion by Zodiac of adding Regen (100% Success)

Triple edit: Adjusted Daggers some more.

For mythril knife, I'd make it MA+1 just b/c it is mythril and give Mage Masher Silence back. And I'd say remove speed until Main Gauche.

Why? Speed is pretty valuable early in the game. Added to that, I'd suggest Yell be available from chapter2 and on (moving up to replace Cheer Up). I also think the Assassin Dagger should be rare and only be available by stealing from an Assassin. Then I'd say give it add: Dead 25%

Sprint Shoes idea is wonderful. I guess that recent move of the Platina Dagger is okay. (moved while I was typing).

Changes made.

Having Nightmare as a cast would be cool on something though. It's 100% accurate so if it activates at that 25% chance you'll definitely get 1 of the 2 status effects. Kind of suits Daggers.

Robes look nice and easy

Pupil Robe: HP 10, MP 10. Cancel: Silence

Silk Robe: HP 15, MP 12

Wizard Robe: HP 20, MP 16. MA+2

Vestment of Sacrifice: HP 0, MP 0. Initial: Crystal

Pious Cloak: HP 30, MP 22. Cancel: Sleep. MA+1

White Robe: HP 40, MP 28. Half: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Black Robe: HP 60, MP 30. Strengthen: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Berserker Robe: HP 70, MP 0. Always: Protect, Berserk. PA+1

Light Robe: HP 75, MP 80

Robe of Lords: HP 100, MP 50. PA+2, MA+1

Leather Armor > Pious cloak
Linen Cuirass > Silk Robe
Linen Robe > Pupil Robe
Silk Robe > Cult Robe

So I added the robe that turns you into an ability crystal. Would this be better off as armour/hat/helmet/clothing or something?

Is the MA+2 bonus now too early? And is the MP bonus on the Light Robe enough to make it worthwhile?

Alright, sorry for the triple post but I had a crack at armor. The idea is that armor blocks statuses that impede you from physically attacking. I got it down to: Stop, Don't Act, Petrify, Dead, Sleep, Darkness, Frog. The result:

QuotePlate Mail: HP 10. Cancel: Darkness, Sleep

Lithe Cuirass: HP 20. Cancel Don't Act, Water  

Gold Armor: HP 30. Cancel: Frog, Earth

Demon Ward: HP 40. Cancel: Sleep, Fire

Aurora Plate: HP 50. Cancel: Darkness, Dark

Adamant Armor: HP 60. Cancel: Petrify, Frog

Mythril Armor: HP 70. Cancel: Stop. MA+1

Black Mail: HP 80. Half: Fire/Ice/Lighting

Carabini Mail: HP 90. Cancel: Dead

Galaxy Mail: HP 100. Cancel: Don't Act, Stop

Drift Armor: HP 110. Cancel: Petrify, Always: Float

Genji Armor: HP 130. Cancel: Sleep. PA+1  

Reflect Armor: HP 150. Always: Reflect

Maximillian: HP 200. Cancel: Frog, Don't Act, Darkness

Crystal Mail > Galaxy Mail
Diamond Armor > Demon Ward (reference to the skill Demon Fire)
Linen Cuirass > Lithe Cuirass
Bronze Armor > Drift Armor
Leather Armor > Aurora Plate
Platinum Armor > Adamant Armor
Chain Mail > Black Mail

If this is any good I might try the same thing with Helmets, only using statuses that block skills that affect the mind/head. I'm thinking: Charm, Confuse, Berserk, Silence, Blood Suck, Blind

I'm trying to be careful not to put blocks like Stop and Dead on the same piece of equipment. Too many of those and the assassins will be too easy.

Vestment of Sacrifice I think is better than Cult Robe. There are only a few robes as it is, so I'd say move Cult Robe to before Wizard Robe, and change Cult Robe to something else.

I'm not so sure about the armor. Maybe we need to cut back a bit on the bonuses. I do believe that there needs to be a few variations and what-not but we're getting more and more overlap. Also, once one has access to a 100HP armor, he's most likely not going back to a 20HP armor.

What I'd like to see more of is drawbacks. Like a helmet with Always: Darkness but gives MP or a robe that adds Silence but also adds... I dunno. I'll come back to this and put together some equips to show what I mean.

Also, don't get too happy with this. As LastingDawn had rightfully stated, we only have 79 different bonuses to dole out. I'll try consolidating some, such as +1MA bonuses, but we won't have enough with every item at that rate. Feel free to keep throwing out your ideas though. Even if I can't use all you suggest, your suggestions speed up my thinking process.

On the bright side, adding status effects or casting magic along with the attack of a weapon takes away from another list, which also has much room for consolidation.

I notice with clothes that the bonuses are all on the last 6 items. So maybe something basic like this for armour?

QuoteChain Mail: HP 20

Plate Mail: HP 35.

Bronze Armor: HP 50

Gold Armor: HP 75.

Platina Armor: HP 80, MP 30

Diamond Armor: HP 100. Absorb: Holy. Cancel: Dead

Mythril Armor: HP 120, MP 20

Tainted Mail: HP 145, MP 50. Always: Poison. MA+1

Genji Armor: HP 140. PA+1

Crystal Mail: HP 160. Cancel: Petrify

Reflect Armor: HP 180. Always: Reflect

Maximillian: HP 210.

Carabini Mail > Tainted Mail

Can we have MP on armour?

Anything that can have HP can have MP, IIRC.

Cool. Also is there any hope whatsoever of keeping the name "Vestment of Sacrifice"? I only changed it because it looks way too long. And do you mean you want to add another robe to the list between linen robe and wizard robe? If so, where should that item come from?

Ninja shit:

Ninja Knife: WP 8, W.ev 15

Short Edge: WP 9, W.ev 15

Ninja Edge: WP 10, W.ev 15. Cs: Steal Helmet

Hidden Knife: WP 8, W.ev 15. Add: Critical

Spell Edge: WP 13, W.ev 15. Add: Don't Act

Sasuke Knife: WP 14, W.ev 15. 25% Cancel on hit: Protect, Shell, Haste,
Regen, Float, Faith, Reraise, Transparent, Reflect (all)

Iga Knife: WP 14, W.ev 40

Koga Knife: WP 16, W.ev 20


Spears:

Narwhal: WP 8, W.ev 10. E: Water

Obelisk: WP 9, W.ev 20. E: Lightning

Mythril Spear: WP 10, W.ev: 10. E: Earth

Longinus: WP 11, W.ev 10. E: Dark

Foehn: WP 12, W.ev 10. E: Wind

Holy Lance: WP 14, W.ev 10. E: Holy, Cs: Holy

Dragon Whisker: WP 17, W.ev 10. E: Fire

Ice Quill: WP 20, W.ev 10. E: Ice

Javelin > Narwhal
Partisan > Longinus
Spear > Foehn
Javelin 2 > Ice Quill

Why must every sword have an element? .-.

The spears are unique in that they only have element. There are just enough spears for every element, it seemed a fitting pattern, and the Holy Lance stays it's classic.

As for the Ninja Swords not a single one has an element.

hidden knife: add critical? maybe you meant add: death?

Actually, Critical can be inflicted as a status without actually having to drop their HP into the critical range. This status will force the enemy to flee in a bid for self-preservation. Zodiac wanted to call it "Chicken Knife" or something and I think that's pretty good.

Quote from: "Asmo X"Dagger: WP 3, W.ev 15. Add: Poison

Mythril Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. MA+1

Blind Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Blind
 
Mage Masher: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Silence

Main Gauche: WP 6, W.ev 40. SP+1

Assassin Dagger: WP 7, W.ev 20. SP+1, Add: Dead

Air Knife: WP 9, W.ev 20. SP+1, Element: Wind. Cs: Kamaitachi

Platina Dagger: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+1, Add: Confusion

Orichalcum: WP 12, W.ev 25. SP+1

Zorlin Shape: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+2


How does this look?

i don't like main gauche's WE 40... beside that ok i guess

also we have to choose: should lances be elemental and swords NON elemental? i think this would be the way to go

QuotePlate Mail: HP 10. Cancel: Darkness, Sleep

Lithe Cuirass: HP 20. Cancel Don't Act, Water

Gold Armor: HP 30. Cancel: Frog, Earth

Demon Ward: HP 40. Cancel: Sleep, Fire

Aurora Plate: HP 50. Cancel: Darkness, Dark

Adamant Armor: HP 60. Cancel: Petrify, Frog

Mythril Armor: HP 70. Cancel: Stop. MA+1

Black Mail: HP 80. Half: Fire/Ice/Lighting

Carabini Mail: HP 90. Cancel: Dead

Galaxy Mail: HP 100. Cancel: Don't Act, Stop

Drift Armor: HP 110. Cancel: Petrify, Always: Float

Genji Armor: HP 130. Cancel: Sleep. PA+1

Reflect Armor: HP 150. Always: Reflect

Maximillian: HP 200. Cancel: Frog, Don't Act, Darkness

i kind of like this but maybe we should give a lil extra to maximillian like regen or such. also since armours will almost knight exclusives we might consider the idea of them giving some extra Hp boost to counter the monster's one. i mean

Plate Mail: HP 10. Cancel: Darkness, Sleep

suck too badly for a knight :P getting abilities from cristals?

another thing we forgot to add are the berserker's items and accessories!

Karsten: I changed the Main Gauche to 30 W.ev. How's that?

Also, I posted an updated list of armour not long after that one (it's in quote). Theres actually no bonuses until the the last 6 armours and there are 2 that add MP. Also, I boosted all of the early armour by 10 HP each. Should I add more?

Yeah the spears I wasn't sure about. I just kind of thought it was interesting that there was 1 spear for every element. I guess we should come up with something more interesting (but lets keep the cool new names that LD and I came up with!)

And yeah, the cult robe is for speeding up the process of crystal harvesting.

Also, based on what Vincent and LastingDawn said about the attribute slots, maybe we shouldn't try to force the issue on some of the early items after all. We came up with a few cool ideas for chapter 1 gear but we can't expect that every time. I'm thinking maybe the first couple of swords shouldnt have an element attached as NMN suggests. Also I might get rid of 2 of those steals on Ninja Swords.



Edit: What were the Berserker items again?

berserker items were still to be made they are supposed to give the character equipped with them various bonuses along with ALWAYS berserk

anyway i guess good candidates would be a

berserker bracer
+2PA +1 speed? +haste always berserk

berserker mace
crazy high PA, always berserk

berserker robe
+1 Pa always Protect, always berserk

how does would it seem?

=o

We could just have the Berserk accessory be Salty Rage. Otherwise, we'll need to remove an accessory and make a gauntlet that doesn't have Auto-Haste.

I thought an axe was more fitting for Berserker, but the robe is fine.

I'm thinking this series of steps should happen:
1) Save Berserker Robe over Chameleon Robe
2) Give Chameleon Robe's Bonus to an armour
3) Take 2 armours and turn them into robes

Also, could we change the Silver Bow into a Berserker Axe?

I agree the Salty Rage should be the Berserker item. Imagine that berserker bracer with two swords, twist headband, powersleeve. Ouch.

Anyway, I'll make these switches just for the time being.

Cypress Rod: WP 7, W.ev 20

Battle Bamboo: WP 8, W.ev 20 MA+1

Musk Rod: WP 8, W.ev 20 Formula 2C: DmgMP_(X)% Hit_(PA+Y)%

Iron Fan: WP 9, W.ev 33. Cancel on hit: Oil, Frog, poison, silence, dont move, dont act, stop, slow.

Gokuu Rod: WP, 10 W.ev 20. Add:Innocent

Octagon Rod: WP 12, W.ev 20. Add: Don't move

Ivory Rod 11 W.ev 20. Add: Banish (Sleep + Transparent)

Whale Whisker 16 W.ev 20


I thought the status canceling was a bit extreme on something as powerful as the Octagon Rod.


Bows:

Mythril Bow: WP 6, W.ev 0. MA+1

Ice Bow: WP 7, W.ev 0. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Lightning Bow: WP 8, W.ev 0. E: Lit, Cs: Bolt 2

Windlash Bow: WP 10, W.ev 0. E: Wind

Long Bow: WP 9, W.ev 0. SP+1

Ultimus Bow: WP 13, W.ev 0. Range +1

Yoichi Bow: WP 17, W.ev 0

Perseus Bow: WP 15, W.ev 0. Add: Charm

Quote from: "Asmo X"Cypress Rod: WP 7, W.ev 20

Battle Bamboo: WP 8, W.ev 20 MA+1

Musk Rod: WP 8, W.ev 20 Formula 2C: DmgMP_(X)% Hit_(PA+Y)%

Iron Fan: WP 9, W.ev 33. Cancel on hit: Oil, Frog, poison, silence, dont move, dont act, stop, slow.

Gokuu Rod: WP, 10 W.ev 20. Add:Innocent

Octagon Rod: WP 12, W.ev 20. E: Holy, Add: Undead

Ivory Rod 11 W.ev 20. Add: Banish (Sleep + Transparent)

Whale Whisker 16 W.ev 20


I thought the status canceling was a bit extreme on something as powerful as the Octagon Rod.


Bows:

Mythril Bow: WP 6, W.ev 0. MA+1

Ice Bow: WP 7, W.ev 0. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Lightning Bow: WP 8, W.ev 0. E: Lit, Cs: Bolt 2

Long Bow: WP 9, W.ev 0. SP+1

Windlash Bow: WP 10, W.ev 0. E: Wind

Ultimus Bow: WP 13, W.ev 0. Range +1

Yoichi Bow: WP 17, W.ev 0

Perseus Bow: WP 15, W.ev 0. Add: Charm

Octagon Rod: WP 12, W.ev 20. E: Holy, Add: Undead
adding undead can became broken, i think we should avoid going over 25.

weapon evade of 33% is a bit too high IMHO

+1speed on bows should be reserved on the better ones, since speed is a factor in bows damages and a big help overall.

this way the Long Bow: WP 9, W.ev 0. SP+1
it's better in all ways than Windlash Bow: WP 10, W.ev 0. E: Wind

No weapon evade over 25? So how would you/everyone rank each weapon category by evade?

Maybe:
1. Cloth 25 (all)
2. Knight Sword 20-25
3. Stick 20-25
4. Spear 15-25
5. Ninja Sword 15 (all)
6. Sword 10-20
7. Axe 10-15
8. Dagger 5-25
9. Staff 5-10
10. Rod 5-10
11. Flail 5
12. Harps 5
13. Dictionaries 5
14. Bow (none)
15. Cross bow (none)
16. Bag (none)
17. Gun (none)

You think undead is broken? What does everyone else think? Seems ok to me.

With the longbow being 9 WP and +1sp and the other being 10 WP, the Long bow is very slightly more powerful so I'll just swap them round. The Windslash bow would do more damage with 108 gems I think.

Adding Undead is between adding Death Sentence and Dead, considering all that needs to happen next is for a Chemist to whip out a PD.

And I don't see why high W.Ev is a problem, especially on the 2-handed weapons. Are we making Sticks and Spears 2-handed?

Yeah I think we should. What would be a good ev% for some of these weapons then? Should Defender have the best ev% or cloths? Maybe sticks should keep their base ev of 20-odd but go up to about 35? For 2-handed weapons you arent equipping a shield, so your evade will be weapon OR mantle (which can be doubled with abandon). As long as we don't give the weapon anything stupid, it'll be difficult to exploit. 35 ought to be ok.

Edit: i'll change Octagon Rod then. throwing a PD for instant win is, of course, gay.

i would give defender either always protect or a substantial WE... can't choose so far

I think Defender should have higher W.Ev than cloths, but considering that both are two handed, the original 60% for Defender should be fine. Remember, you are giving up a reaction ability to get the evasion bonus and no one is going to bother with weapon guard if he can just use Abandon to get more physical and magical evasion: every class that can use the Defender can also equip shields.

Save the Queen already has Auto: Protect

Oh yeah, I know this topic is going real fast, but I wanted to say that I really like the idea of later shields having nearly the same block power as the first one; Unless it's blessed with magic, it shouldn't increase your reaction speed by 500%. >_>

Yeah the high weapon guard for 2 handed sounds fine to me. I think the best you should be able to do against physical attacks is W.Guard Defender + Drac Mantle. The evasion should be just above 70 I think.

Anyway, here's a compilation of all the equipment discussed so far:

Accessories:

QuoteBattle Boots- Mv+1, PA+1
Spike Shoes- Jump+3
Germinas Boots- Mv+1, Jump+1
Rubber Shoes- Cancel: Lightning, Don't Move
Feather Boots- Always: Float, Sp+1
Sprint Shoes- Sp+1, Initial: Haste
Red Shoes - Mv+1, MA+1

Power Wrist- PA+1, Sp+1
Genji Gauntlet- PA+2, MA+2
Magic Gauntlet- MA+3
Bracer- PA+3

Reflect Ring- Always: Reflect, MA+1
Defense Ring- Cancel: Sleep, Death Sentence, Petrify
Magic Ring- Always: Faith, Cancel: Silence, Berserk
Cursed Ring- Always: Undead; PA+1, MA+1, Sp+1; Immune: Dark, Weak: Holy
Angel Ring - Initial: Reraise; Cancel: Darkness, Dead; Immune: Holy, Weak: Dark

Diamond Armlet- PA+1, MA+1, Cancel: Slow, Stop, Haste
Jade Armlet- Cancel: Wind, Water
108 Gems- Cancel: Zombie, Blood Suck, Frog, Poison; Strengthen: All elements
N-Kai Armlet- Cancel: Charm, Confusion Half: Dark
Defense Armlet- Cancel: Don't Move, Don't Act, Fire

Small Mantle- Cancel: Crystal, Treasure
Leather Mantle- P.ev 15 Half: Water, Lightning
Wizard Mantle- P.ev 10, M.ev 15, MA+1
Elf Mantle- P.ev 15, M.ev 15, Sp+1, Weak: Earth
Feather Mantle: P.ev 25, M.ev 20
Dracula Mantle: P.ev 30, M.ev 30, Always: Undead
Vanish Mantle: P.ev 30, Initial: Transparent

Chantage- Initial: Reraise. Always: Regen
Cherche- Always: Reflect, Always: Float
Salty Rage- Always: Haste, Always: Berserk
Setiemson- Always: Shell, PA+1

Shields:

QuoteEscutcheon- P.ev 10, M.ev 10. Cancel: Confusion

Buckler- P.ev 15, M.ev 10. Cancel: Don't Act

Mythril Shield- P.ev 10, M.ev 15. Cancel: Berserk

Storm Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Wind, Water

Ice Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Ice; Half: Fire; Weak: Wind

Fire Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Fire; Half: Ice; Weak: Water

Blast Shield- P.ev 20, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Lightning; Half: Water; Weak: Fire

Platina Guard- P.ev 0, M.ev 0. Always: Protect; Weak: Ice

Celestial Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 15. Absorb&Strengthen: Dark, Holy

Aegis Shield- P.ev 10, M.ev 30. MA+1

Diamond Shield- P.ev 10, M.ev 10. PA+1

Crystal Guard- P.ev 0, M.ev 0. Always: Shell

Genji Shield- P.ev 30, M.ev 20.  

Kaiser Plate- P.ev 20, M.ev 5. Always: Faith; Strengthen: Fire, Lightning,
Ice

Venetian Shield- P.ev 25, M.ev 25. Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice

Magic Seal- P.ev 0, M.ev 100. Always: Innocent; Cancel: elements (minus Earth)

Swords:

QuoteLong Sword: WP: 4, W.ev: 10.

Broad Sword: WP: 5, W.ev: 15.

Spatha: WP: 7, W.ev: 10.

Ice Brand: WP: 8, W.ev: 10. E: Ice, Cs: Ice

Tempest Sword: WP: 8, W.ev: 10. E: Lightning, Cs: Bolt

Mythril Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 15. MA+2

Diamond Sword: WP: 9, W.ev 33.

Rune Blade: WP: 11, W.ev: 10. E: Holy, A: Sleep

Ancient Sword: WP: 12, W.ev: 10. E: Dark, A: Slow

Loam Sword: WP: 15, W.ev: 15. E: Earth

Blood Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 10. Always: Drain

Materia Blade: WP: 10. W.ev: 10. E: Wind, MA+3

Flametongue: WP: 12, W.ev: 20. E: Fire, Cs: Lava Ball

Nagrarock: WP: 13, W.ev:20. E: Water, Add: Toad (Frog + slow)

Staves

QuoteOak Staff: WP: 0, W.ev: 5. Str: Holy, Add 100%: Float. 3 Range

White Staff: WP 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Cancel on hit 100%: Undead, Blood Suck

Healing Staff: WP: 4, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Restores HP

Rainbow Staff: WP: 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy. Formula 4B: Heal_(Rdm(1..9)) 100%

Wizard Staff: WP: 5, W.ev: 5. Str: Holy, MA+1

Gold Staff: WP: 9, W.ev 20. Str: Holy

Mace of Zeus: WP: 0, W.ev: 15. Formula 43 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP)

Sage Staff: WP: 0, W.ev 15. Str: Holy, Add 100%: Vanish

Rods:

QuoteRod: WP 3, W.ev 20. MA+1

Poison Rod: WP 0, W.ev 5. MA+1, Add 100%: Poison

Thunder Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Bolt3

Flame Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Fire 3

Ice Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Ice 3

Wizard Rod: WP 4, W.ev 5. MA+2, Formula 2F: Absorb MP(PA*WP)

Faith Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Always: Faith

Dragon Rod: WP 9, W.ev 10. MA+1, PA+1. Cs: Shellbust Stab

Axes

QuoteBattle Axe: WP 8, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Blind/Silence/Slow

Giant Axe: WP 12, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Confusion/Don't Move/Don't Act

Slasher: WP 16, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Cursed

Rage Axe: WP 20, W.ev 5. Add 100%: Death Sentence/Poison/Sleep. Always: Berserk

-Silver Bow turned into Rage axe

Daggers:

QuoteDagger: WP 3, W.ev 15. Add: Poison

Mythril Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. MA+1

Blind Knife: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Blind

Mage Masher: WP 4, W.ev 15. Add: Silence

Main Gauche: WP 6, W.ev 30. SP+1

Assassin Dagger: WP 7, W.ev 20. SP+1, Add: Dead

Air Knife: WP 9, W.ev 20. SP+1, Element: Wind. Cs: Kamaitachi

Platina Dagger: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+1, Add: Confusion

Orichalcum: WP 12, W.ev 20. SP+1

Zorlin Shape: WP 10, W.ev 15. SP+2

Robes:

QuotePupil Robe: HP 10, MP 10. Cancel: Silence

Silk Robe: HP 15, MP 12

Wizard Robe: HP 20, MP 16. MA+2

Vestment of Sacrifice: HP 0, MP 0. Initial: Crystal

Pious Cloak: HP 30, MP 22. Cancel: Sleep. MA+1

White Robe: HP 40, MP 28. Half: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Black Robe: HP 60, MP 30. Strengthen: Fire/Ice/Lightning

Berserker Robe: HP 70, MP 0. Always: Protect, Berserk. PA+1

Light Robe: HP 75, MP 80

Robe of Lords: HP 100, MP 50. PA+2, MA+1

-Leather Armor turned into Pious cloak
-Linen Cuirass turned into Silk Robe

Armor

QuoteChain Mail: HP 20

Plate Mail: HP 35.

Bronze Armor: HP 50

Gold Armor: HP 75.

Platina Armor: HP 80, MP 30

Diamond Armor: HP 100. Absorb: Holy. Cancel: Dead

Mythril Armor: HP 120, MP 20

Tainted Mail: HP 145, MP 50. Always: Poison. MA+1

Genji Armor: HP 140. PA+1

Crystal Mail: HP 160. Cancel: Petrify

Reflect Armor: HP 180. Always: Reflect

Maximillion: HP 210.

Ninja Swords:

QuoteNinja Knife: WP 8, W.ev 15

Short Edge: WP 9, W.ev 15

Ninja Edge: WP 10, W.ev 15. Cs: Steal Helmet

Hidden Knife: WP 8, W.ev 15. Add: Critical

Spell Edge: WP 13, W.ev 15. Add: Don't Act

Sasuke Knife: WP 14, W.ev 15. 25% Cancel on hit: Protect, Shell, Haste,
Regen, Float, Faith, Reraise, Transparent, Reflect (all)

Iga Knife: WP 15, W.ev 25

Koga Knife: WP 16, W.ev 15

Spears:

QuoteNarwhal: WP 8, W.ev 20.

Mythril Spear: WP 10, W.ev: 20. MA+2

Foehn: WP 12, W.ev 35. E: Wind

Dragon Whisker: WP 13, W.ev 20. 3 range

Ice Quill: WP 14, W.ev 20. Cs: Blizzard

Holy Lance: WP 16, W.ev 20. E: Holy, Cs: Holy

Longinus: WP 17, W.ev 20. E: Dark, Cs: Blastar Punch

Obelisk: WP 20, W.ev 20.

Sticks:

QuoteCypress Rod: WP 7, W.ev 30

Battle Bamboo: WP 8, W.ev 30. Formula 2F AbsMP_(PA*WP)

Musk Rod: WP 8, W.ev 30. MA+1

Iron Fan: WP 9, W.ev 45. Cancel on hit: Oil, Frog, poison, silence, dont move, dont act, stop, slow.

Gokuu Rod: WP, 10 W.ev 30. Add:Innocent

Octagon Rod: WP 12, W.ev 30. Add: Don't move

Ivory Rod 11 W.ev 30. Add: Banish (Sleep + Transparent)

Whale Whisker 16 W.ev 35

Bows:

QuoteMythril Bow: WP 6, W.ev 0. MA+1

Ice Bow: WP 7, W.ev 0. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Lightning Bow: WP 8, W.ev 0. E: Lit, Cs: Bolt 2

Windlash Bow: WP 9, W.ev 0. E: Wind

Long Bow: WP 10, W.ev 0. SP+1

Ultimus Bow: WP 13, W.ev 0. Range +1

Yoichi Bow: WP 17, W.ev 0

Perseus Bow: WP 15, W.ev 0. Add: Mania (Berserk + Blind)

Harps:

QuoteFairy Harp: WP: 0, W.ev: 0. Add 100%: Regen

Bloody Strings: WP: 13, W.ev: 0. Drains HP

Ramia Harp: WP: 15, W.ev: 0. Add: Charm

Dictionaries:

QuoteBattle Dict.: WP 7, W.ev 0. Cs: Ramuh

Monster dict.: WP 8, W.ev 0. Cs: Leviathan

Papyrus Plate: WP 9, W.ev 0. Cs: Salamander

Madlemgen: WP 11, W.ev 0. Cs: Bahamut

I staggered the WP increase on the swords a little more evenly and increased the HP growth on armor by quite a bit (especially since I moved 2 into the robe category). Is it too much HP too fast?

Depending on how they're spaced out in shops it's probably fine, I'm not so sure about auto regen on maximillion though, I'd say it's already good enough with it's super high hp bonus.

QuoteMace of Zeus: WP: 0, W.ev: 15. Formula 4F: Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) Hit_(MA+X)% (Shock)

Nononono, I only noticed that but don't ever use a formula with X or Y in it! it will almost always be extremely weak. Plus that's not Shock's formula.

don't use 4F
4F Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) Hit_(MA+X)% NS

Because if you always only have MA% to hit the target, that's going to be pretty annoying.

use 43 Instead
43 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) NS

Or even 52 for that matter... Caster won't be in AoE so it doesn't matter.
52 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) 100% Add Status CasterInAoE: DmgSelf_(CasCurHP) NS

QuoteDragon Rod: WP 9, W.ev 10. MA+1, PA+1. Formula: Tail Swing: Damage = PA * (1..15) (50% chance of knockback)

This won't work either... the real formula is 37 Dmg_(Rdm(1..Y)*PA).
And in our case it will always be Dmg_(1*PA); no knockback.

QuoteMusk Rod: WP 8, W.ev 20 Formula 2C: DmgMP_(X)% Hit_(PA+Y)%

Always 0MP damage, else Miss. If you want to damage MP, you'll need to cast a spell because all the other formulas for MP Damage uses X & Y % as well.
This is your only alternative: 2F AbsMP_(PA*WP) NS.

Damn it, that Shock formula was the one I was looking for too. Dumb. as. shit. I mustve skipped over it and grabbed the closest thing to it

Interesting about the Dragon Rod. Do we have any formulas for weapons that could inflict knockback?

And I gave that absorbMP formula to the wizard rod. I guess it will be fine for the stick as well.

ok, made the changes. Dragon Rod casts Shellbust Stab for the moment. I think that kind of works too.

One more thing- Zodiac found a nasty exploit with the flametongue, fire shield, attack up and elf mantle. You can equip a bunch of guys with this setup and do some serious healing. For starters, the Elf mantle should probably be changed to Weak:Earth since theres no shield that strengthens and absorbs that

I feel like there needs to be a Cupid Bow that adds Charm...

Well, I have incorporated all current Item and Weapon changes into the game, I haven't yet tested but I for one am very excited to see what new possibilities this will bring! The only thing I could not figure out for the life of me was how Zodiac wanted to make the Axes affects work 100% of the time and still retain attack power. Also, I made a few independent changes, that  had to be addressed (such as enemy availability and shop availability) I'll make a full record when I upload the modified VK Patch.

Ok made some changes. Went to work on the spears, swapped the 8 WP sticks around, changed Ivory Rod to add: Sleep. Oak Staff has 3 range. Also added Dictionaries and gave them combination effects

Edit: LastingDawn pointed out that I misunderstood the intent behind Zodiacs axes. Changed accordingly.

Also a reminder that these lists are just suggestions. I'm not trying to hijack someone else's project.

Edit 2: More changes. Books cast summons by request. Banish sent back to Ivory Rod, Mania to Perseus Bow, Toad to Nagrarock.

Okay, I've decided finally to cut out some items.  All I've done for now is the stuff in your units hands.

Asmo and I were thinking about cutting weapon power, but for now I'll not mess with it too much since everything else will have to be balanced along with it.

I'm really considering a sharp decrease in growth rates so that I can make all the weapons (of the same type) about the same power and it not matter too much. Disregard WP for now.

Some of the first weapons are pathetic.  They will be cheap, so if you are (almost) out of money, just get an Oak Staff, Broad Sword, etc.

Daggers:

QuoteDagger: WP 3, W.ev 10. Add: Poison

Mythril Knife: WP 4, W.ev 10. MA+2

Blind Knife: WP 4, W.ev 10. Add: Blind

Mage Masher: WP 4, W.ev 10. Add: Silence

Main Gauche: WP 6, W.ev 30. SP+1

Assassin Dagger: WP 8, W.ev 20. SP+1, Add: Dead

Zorlin Shape: WP 10, W.ev 10. SP+2

Ninja Knives:

QuoteHidden Knife: WP 8, W.ev 15. Add: Don't Move

Spell Edge: WP 10, W.ev 15. Add: Don't Act

Sasuke Knife: WP 11, W.ev 15. Add: Stop

Iga Knife: WP 13, W.ev 25

Koga Knife: WP 13, W.ev 25

Swords:

QuoteBroad Sword: WP: 5, W.ev: 20.

Ice Brand: WP: 8, W.ev: 15. E: Ice

Tempest Sword: WP: 8, W.ev: 15. E: Lightning

Diamond Sword: WP:9, W.ev 15.  E: Holy

Some Sword: WP: 9, W.ev: 10. E: Wind

Ancient Sword: WP: 11, W.ev: 15. E: Dark

Flametongue: WP: 12, W.ev: 20. E: Fire

Nagrarock: WP:12, W.ev:20. E: Water

Loam Sword: WP: 15, W.ev: 15. E: Earth

Mythril Sword: WP 12, W.ev 15. MA+2

Materia Blade: WP: 10. W.ev: 10.  MA+3

Knight Swords:

QuoteDefender: WP 16, W.Ev 60

Save the Queen: WP 18, W.Ev 30 Always: Protect

Ragnarok: WP 24, W.Ev 30 Always: Shell

Excalibur: WP 21 W.Ev 20  Always: Regen; Absorb & Strengthen: Holy; E: Holy

Chaos Blade: WP 30 W.Ev 20

Katana:
All about the same, they just are good for DO


Axes (PA*WP formula):

QuoteBattle Axe: WP 12. Move+1  (User Always Berserk)

Giant Axe: WP 15. Cs: Weapon Break (User Always Berserk)

Slasher: WP 18. Sp+2 (User Always Berserk)

Rods:

QuoteThick Rod: WP 3, W.ev 20. MA+1

Poison Rod: WP 0, W.ev 5. MA+1, Add 100%: Poison

Thunder Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Bolt 3

Flame Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Fire 3

Ice Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Cs Ice 3

Wizard Rod: WP 4, W.ev 5. MA+2, Formula 2F: Absorb MP(PA*WP)

Faith Rod: WP 3, W.ev 5. MA+1, Always: Faith

Dragon Rod: WP 10, W.ev 10. MA+1, PA+1. Cs: Bahamut

Staves:

QuoteOak Staff: WP 3, W.ev 15; Str: Holy

White Staff: WP 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Cancel on hit 100%: Undead, Blood Suck

Healing Staff: WP: 5, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Restores HP

Rainbow Staff: WP: 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy. Add: Shell OR Protect OR Reflect

Wizard Staff: WP: 6, W.ev: 5. Str: Holy, MA+1

Sage Staff: WP: 0, W.ev 5. Str: Holy, Add 100%: Vanish

Mace of Zeus: WP: 0, W.ev: 20. Formula 43 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP)
 

(Omit Flail)


Gun:

QuoteRomanda Gun: WP 6, W.ev 5. Sp+1

Mythril Gun: WP 8, W.ev 5. MA+1

Stone Gun: 12, W.ev 5.  Initial: Petrify, Add: Petrify

Blaze/Glacier/Blast Guns: (Fire, Ice, Lightning; All same power)

Crossbow (Range 5):

QuoteBow Gun: WP 6

Night Killer: WP 8; Add: Darkness (Blind)

Poison Bow: WP 9; Add: Poison

Hunting Bow: WP 12; Cs: Armor Break

Gastrafitis: WP 20 (User is always Slow)

Bows:

QuoteWood Bow: WP 5

Mythril Bow: WP 6 MA+2

Ice Bow: WP 7. E: Ice, Cs: Ice2

Lightning Bow: WP 8. E: Lit, Cs: Bolt 2

Windlash Bow: WP 9. E: Wind

Long Bow: WP 10. SP+1

Ultimus Bow: WP 12. Range +1

Perseus Bow: WP 15. Add: Mania (Berserk + Blind)

Harps:

QuoteFairy Harp: WP: 0,  Add 100%: Regen

Bloody Strings: WP: 12, Drains HP

Ramia Harp: WP: 15, Add: Charm

Dictionaries:

QuoteStorm Tome: Cast: Aero2

Fire Tome: Cast: Fire2

Madlemgen: Cast: Lich; (User is Undead)

Spears:

QuoteNarwhal: WP 8, W.ev 20; Jump+1

Mythril Spear: WP 10, W.ev: 20. MA+2

Dragon Whisker: WP 13, W.ev 10. 3 range

Holy Lance: WP 16, W.ev 20. E: Holy, Cs: Holy

Longinus: WP 17, W.ev 20. E: Dark, Cs: Dark Holy

Obelisk: WP 20, W.ev 20.

Sticks:

QuoteCypress Rod: WP 7, W.ev 30

Battle Bamboo: WP 8, W.ev 30. Formula 2F AbsMP_(PA*WP)

Musk Rod: WP 8, W.ev 30. PA+2

Octagon Rod: WP 12, W.ev 30. Cancel on hit: Protect, Shell, Haste, Regen, Float, Faith, Reraise, Reflect.

Iron Fan: WP 9, W.ev 45. Cancel on hit: Darkness, Poison, Silence, Frog,  Don't Move, Don't Act, Slow, Innocent.

Gokuu Rod: WP, 10 W.ev 30. Add:Innocent

Ivory Rod WP 11 W.ev 30. Add: Banish (Sleep + Transparent)

Whale Whisker WP 16 W.ev 35

(Omit Bags)


Cloths:

QuotePersia WP 8, W.ev 50, PA+1

Cashmere WP 10, W.ev 50, MA+1

Ryozan Silk WP 15 W.ev 50, Sp+1

Shields:

QuoteBuckler- P.ev 15, M.ev 10

Storm Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Wind, Water

Ice Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Ice; Half: Fire; Weak: Wind

Fire Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Fire; Half: Ice; Weak: Water

Blast Shield- P.ev 20, M.ev 0. Absorb&Strengthen: Lightning; Half: Water; Weak: Fire

Platina Guard- P.ev 0, M.ev 0. Always: Protect; Weak: Ice

Celestial Shield- P.ev 15, M.ev 15. Absorb&Strengthen: Dark, Holy

Mythril Shield- P.ev 10, M.ev 30. MA+1

Crystal Guard- P.ev 0, M.ev 0. Always: Shell

Genji Shield- P.ev 30, M.ev 20. PA+1

Kaiser Plate- P.ev 20, M.ev 5. Always: Faith; Strengthen: Fire, Lightning,
Ice

Venetian Shield- P.ev 25, M.ev 25. Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice

Magic Seal- P.ev 0, M.ev 100. Always: Innocent; Cancel: elements (minus Earth)

You could do a few things here. Bundle Rods and Staves into the same category (I like the staves giving positive effects, of course, but the healing rod should stay too)? You could maybe cut down the amount of daggers and swords and Helmets and Armour and space them further apart. In fact, you could take out plenty of equipment

You could also diminish the role of weaponry in the total damage dealt and decrease the WP variability within each category. That way you can space the weapons out in shops as per normal but you could also allow the enemy to use more 'advanced' equipment earlier and therefore encourage the player to steal.

For Flails, an idea was thrown around about letting them use the gun formula. So they wouldn't get better with PA, but they'd be a super accurate finishing tool. Would probably suit priest. They could just swoop in and kill a critical opponent if they had to. Flame whip could use Blaze Gun formula.


Wow. There are some sexy changes there. Bahamut on Dragon Rod? Why did that never even cross my mind. Gah. Very nice.

One thing with rods: do you really see people walking up with an Ice Rod and whacking someone with it on the offchance the spell will activate? It seems so appropriate to have those spells but they're also pretty impractical.

Another one: How about taking out mythril sword? Everyone can just equip the Materia Blade.

Rods and Staves should stay separate primarily because they have different formulas and are used by different classes.  What is the healing rod?

I think I cut out plenty enough daggers. And actually I think I'll change Sasuke Knife from add: Stop to add: Sleep.  Seems more appropriate.
Cutting out Mythril sword could work, although Materia Blade would be a unique item.  As for armor, clothes, helms, etc. I plan to take out many.

To decrease WP variability I'll need to decrease growth rates so they scale well with magic, or...?

The rods might need more WP in general. Perhaps we should just go back to Str: element on them.

I would think guns would accomplish the same task as said flails, though it is an interesting idea.


I'll need to note which ones are rare, won't I?

hmmm. I never thought about magic. Might be best not to do anything too drastic then.

Also, I thought it wasn't possible to have a weapon cast a skill 100%? That will obviously be a problem for books.

Does the Materia Blade have to be unique? I don't think it will matter too much in the long-run. Also, if you take out mythril blade, could you throw the sleep sword back in? It'd be good to have just a couple of exceptions to the theme just to break things up a little. Same with nagra and frog. It was always kind of cool that it did that.

I think a few interesting weapons might have fallen by the wayside. The blood sword was pretty cool, for instance.

Also the giant axe only has a 25% chance of casting weapon break, right? So it still has a good chance to miss even if you're lucky enough to get it to activate. Maybe Icewolf Bite?

Gun adding petrify? Not sure. That might turn out to be exceptionally good. heh.

I don't think I'd use that Gastrafitis to be honest. I see it has nice WP at range but always: slow? That'll hurt. Speaking of bows, is the Cs: black magic getting a bit out of hand here? Maybe we could take out the lightning bow and have the other elemental bows cast Blizzard and Kamaitachi?

Quote from: "Asmo X"Also, I thought it wasn't possible to have a weapon cast a skill 100%? That will obviously be a problem for books.

The Blast/Glacier/Blaze guns cast spells 100%, so I doubt it'd be different for the Dictionaries.

QuoteDoes the Materia Blade have to be unique? I don't think it will matter too much in the long-run. Also, if you take out mythril blade, could you throw the sleep sword back in? It'd be good to have just a couple of exceptions to the theme just to break things up a little. Same with nagra and frog. It was always kind of cool that it did that.

I think it makes sense for it to be unique; especially if this patch still has Cloud relying on it for his Limits. The Nagrarock was cool, though...

QuoteI think a few interesting weapons might have fallen by the wayside. The blood sword was pretty cool, for instance.

I agree.

QuoteAlso the giant axe only has a 25% chance of casting weapon break, right? So it still has a good chance to miss even if you're lucky enough to get it to activate. Maybe Icewolf Bite?

Icewolf Bite would be far too good to be balanced. I'm not too fond of all axes having innate: Berserk, though.

QuoteGun adding petrify? Not sure. That might turn out to be exceptionally good. heh.

The Stone Gun has always done that, but I can see how it might be a problem. It doesn't have a very good chance for it to petrify, though.

I was thinking about putting stuff like add: Sleep, Frog, Chicken on some Ninja Swords though I think Blood Sword may need to come back.  MA+3 on a weapon seems a bit too much on a common weapon, especially for such a common weapon type.

100% Dictionary magic probably isn't possible w/o giving them the magic gun formula, so perhaps I'll just give them a chance to cast a summon.

Are you sure cast Weapon Break works that way? If it does, it may need an additional bonus.
 
I figure a chance to add Petrify (for Stone Gun) would not be too unreasonable, considering it is rare and it makes the user start petrified.  Instead of being really powerful, I just cut its power and gave it a chance to add Petrify.

Idk what to do with Gastrafitis. I could just make it powerful w/o a downside?  I may replace some black magic casts with geomancy.  What other cool weapons have fallen to the wayside?

I actually considered removing all axes, but then I realized that this was the weapon of choice for the "Berserker".  Therefore...

i agree for the most part. about gastrafitis... how about putting yourself in slow? big, awfully powerful, but slow to charge?

hmm. I was under the impression that the stone gun was only initial: petrify, not add: petrify. Anyway...

I think the old Chaos Blade was pretty neat, and it's brokeness seems to be mostly solved by making it forced 2 hands. I think what you have there is good, but adding petrify with it should return. Better a sword than a gun. Don't worry about giving Regen back to it. I like the new Excali you made.

I also like Zodiacs idea about axes being damage and 100% add status. Is that still doable? Slasher always: berserk, add: slow would be cool. And maybe there is no need for any more than 1 axe if it has such bonuses. Also, you could keep a flail or 2 and put them with axes in a catch-all "blunt" or "bash" category

Another idea I kind of liked was Don't Move on a 2 panel weapon. Halts the enemy without triggering counters (for short range weaponry anyway).

Other changes to consider:

-Maybe ditch rods that have a chance to cast black magic on hit. I would consider attacking with the poison rod because you could make a reliable decision with it. If the elemental rods had 3 range I might use them but I think the best weapon list will be one that puts practicality first and that means boldy cutting out what doesn't belong.

-It turns out that Dragon Whisker would have to have book range. 3 panels of normal spear range is apparently not possible. I don't think it's all that appropriate and we probably don't need to have that weapon (but if you decide to remove it, please keep the name!).

-Cloths arent going to see much use for those bonuses are they? PA will help Witch Hunt and Wiznaibus but it would be more appropriate if they got the always: protect, always: shell bonuses (in that they could "cover" the dancer in some way). Consider Knight swords using bonuses from this list: Haste (initial probably), Regen (done), Reraise (initial), Reflect, Berserk, Innocent, Faith, Transparent, Float. Actually, adding always: Float to a cloth might be cool. That way you could dance over surfaces that are difficult to access for melee units. Magic Carpet: Mv+1, always: float? Also a very high jump on cloths would be great for the same purpose

-Also, I know that the old Octagon Rod canceled bad status and it's an interesting idea but it just doesnt work when you only have a 25% chance of activating it AND you have WP to deal with as well. Perhaps the White Staff should be boosted with more cancels instead and the Iron Fan can just be removed.

Other interesting effects:
-A one-off item that adds the "critical" status. Several uses. Allies targeted will be prioritised by the enemy, can trigger critical reaction abilities and a successful crit on the enemy will cause them to flee. I don't think this will be too broken if there's only 1 in the entire game.

-Earth Slash. Would this just trigger for the individual target or would it hit the entire line? If it hit the entire line, you'd also have to think about positioning.

-Steals. Lasting_Dawn put me up to this and I think it's a neat idea. They wouldn't happen successfully very often. I think I had one or two on ninja swords.

-Add: Quick + Charm. Would this be possible? It'd have to be an uncommon weapon though. A nasty combination.

-Healing rod also with a 25% chance to cast Chakra?

-Crossbows are an absolute pain. Would it be possible to just keep one or 2 and merge them with bows? They'd be unique members of the class simply for being one-handed. I think you should keep Gastrifitis and your new Hunting Bow.

Stone gun was just initial: Petrify, but I think it should now be both in lieu of a powerful attack.

Actually, with the Chaos Blade I was planning on making it Absorb&Strengthen dark with a dark-elemental. That sound good?

If 100% magic cast isn't doable, I ddoubt 100% status and a regular attack is doable.  I didn't remember seeing either in that list. And actually I was going to make the Mace of Zeus fall in the 'Flail' category by itself.

Perhaps a Stick could have Don't Move?  I was going to give the rods their Str: element back, b/c I wouldn't use them as they are either.  I'm not sure what theme to give to the Sticks/Spears.

Float and Reflect look like good candidates for cloths.

The 'critical' weapon sounds a bit off as well as the stealing by attacking idea, but I'll give it a whirl.  How about a knife that steals money?

Earth Slash would only hit 1 enemy, so nothing special there.  Quick+Charm may be good for the Fairy Harp.  I believe it is rare.

My thoughts on crossbow was that there aren't very many long-range weapons available to all the classes (via Equip Crossbow). A merge, of course, is always an option.

The formula for the damage and 100% add status is 2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status

I don't believe there's one that lets you cast a skill at 100% though?

Yeah maybe critical isn't so good after all. But yeah, look into the steal thing.

The thing spears are mostly known for is the 2-panel attack. Their "thing" could just be having the most WP of out the 2 panel weapons and crap/0 weapon guard. Also, aren't they 1 hand with no two-swords and no two-hand? Being able to equip a shield with them wouldn't make them outshine swords too much, right? Sticks could just be forced 2 hand and I think they should have much better weapon guard than Spears and Cloths. Cloths have their fancy new bonuses. Reflect and Float will be good.

Yeah you're right about Crossbows being good as a ranged weapon for everyone. Perhaps if all crossbows broke equipment? It would be fairly appropriate for them I think. Short range with lots of force. We certainly don't need 5 of them. Just...don't make the Gastrafitis break weapon.

Rods strenthening elements is ok, but you might as well just make one that strengthens Fire/Ice/Lit. They're bascially the same spell.

A stick with DM would be good. That Iron Fan concept just won't work so maybe it can go there.

Chaos blade being Dark elemental would be good. By also strengthening Dark, it would basically increase its WP by a third, right?

Also, now that the Dragon Rod casts Bahamut instead of Shellbust Stab, that PA+1 is sort of pointless I guess.

Okay. So we can do 100% chance of adding Poison on rods with a regular attack? But 100% what for the axes?  I suppose since the axe(s) give berserk, 100% status isn't unreasonable.

I'll just give the Spears and Sticks a random something or other. Since they are 2-range, their bonuses can overlap with some of the other weapon bonuses.  I think the original Spear was 2-Handable, which makes since considering it is a big weapon. But is that what we want though?

If the crossbows added slow, then 100% break equipment might be appropriate for them.  Otherwise, just a regular 25%.

And a strengthened element is plus 1/4 IIRC. Note that a weapon elemental, especially Dark, isn't exactly a good thing.

And also remember that one actually has to attack with the Dragon Rod for it to cast Bahamut.  So +PA is slightly appropriate.  A merge of Str: elements sounds fine for those other rods.  Can a rod be multi-elemental? Just a thought.

Oh, and what do you (plural) think about allowing Knights to use Spear? I figured I'd make Holy and Dark elemental available on the lances
instead of giving those elements to the swords. Since they are still 1-handed, one can pair these spears with shields.

Sticks and Dictionaries can currently be used only by Oracle.  I'm going to allow Blue Mage to use both of those as well.

On the far left, I decided to put in at what time (if ever) the item is available. It's not complete yet, so the only information there right now is whether or not it can be bought.  Unbuyable items are marked by a '--'.  Shop prices are still all crazy as well as the level at which enemies begin using said equipment.  The weapon power should be about right, though I am seeking a way to equalize the weapons.



[B.1] weapons
      =========================================================================

DAGGERS:           [(PA + Sp) / 2] * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
01 Dagger           3   5    100    1   Add: Poison (25%)
02 Mythril Knife    4   5    500    3   MA+2
03 Thief Knife      4   5    800    7   Cs: Steal Gil/Steal Exp (100%)
04 Mage Masher      4   5   1500   11   Add: Silence (25%)
05 Main Gauche      6  30   3000   21   Sp+1
-- Assassin Dagger  7   5   5000  (29)  Sp+1, Add: Dead(25%)
-- Zorlin Shape    10   5  12000  (95)  Sp+2


NINJA SWORDS:      [(PA + Sp) / 2] * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
0B Hidden Knife     8  10   3000   10   Add: Sleep (25%)
0E Ninja Edge      12  15  10000   22   Add: Darkness (25%)
0F Spell Edge      12  15  16000   27   Add: Don't Act (25%)
-- Iga Knife       13  10     10  (96)  Add: Chicken (25%)
-- Koga Knife      13  10     10  (96)  Add: Frog (25%)


SWORDS:            PA * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
13 Broad Sword      4  20    200    1
-- Blood Sword      8  10   2500   12   Absorbs damage as HP
18 Coral Sword      8  15   3300   15   E: Lightning
19 Ancient Sword    9  15   5000   21   E: Water
1A Sleep Sword      9  15   5000   23   E: Fire
1B Platinum Sword  12  15  11000   28   E: Wind
1C Diamond Sword   10  15   8000   26   E: Earth
1D Ice Brand       13  15  14000   34   E: Ice
-- Materia Blade   10  10     10  (96)  MA+3
* I’m not sure in which order to make the elemental-blades available. >.>


KNIGHT SWORDS:     [PA * Br/100] * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   Both hands only
                   NO Two Swords
                   NO Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
-- Defender        16  60  40000   40
-- Save the Queen  18  30     10   45   Auto-Protect
-- Excalibur       21  20     10  (97)  Auto-Regen, Absorb&Str: Holy, E: Holy
-- Ragnarok        24  30     10   48   Auto-Shell
-- Chaos Blade     28  20     10  (98)  Absorb&Str: Dark, E: Dark


KATANA:            [PA * Br/100] * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
26 Asura Knife      7  40   1600    9
27 Koutetsu Knife   8  40   3000   12
28 Bizen Boat       9  40   5000   15
29 Murasame        10  40   7000   21      At least one of the appropriate
2A Heaven's Cloud  11  40   8000   24    katana must be in stock in order to
2B Kiyomori        12  40  10000   27   use the corresponding DRAW OUT attack.
2C Muramasa        13  40  15000   30
2D Kikuichimoji    14  40  22000   33
-- Masamune        18  40     10  (95)
-- Chirijiraden    20  40     10  (96)


AXES:              PA * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   Both hands only
                   NO Two Swords
                   NO Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
30 Battle Axe      10   0   6000   (4)  Auto-Berserk, Move+1
31 Giant Axe       13   0  10000  (12)  Auto-Berserk, Add: Slow (100%)?
32 Slasher         16   0  15000  (31)  Auto-Berserk, Cs: Return 2 (25%)


RODS:              PA * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
33 Thick Rod        3  20    100    1   MA+1
35 Flame Rod        4   5    400    5   Str: Fire, Ice, Lightning
37 Poison Rod       4   5    500   12   MA+1, Add: Poison (100%)?
38 Wizard Rod       4   5   8000   23   MA+2, Absorb MP(PA*WP)
-- Dragon Rod      10  10  12000  (95)  MA+1, PA+1, M: Bahamut
-- Faith Rod        5   5     10   96   MA+1, Auto-Faith, Add: Faith (25%)


STAVES:            MA * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
3B Oak Staff        3  15    100    1   Str: Holy
3C White Staff      0   5    800    5   Str: Holy, Cancel: Undead, Blood Suck (100%)
3D Healing Staff    5   5   4000  ( 9)  Str: Holy, Restores HP (on hit)
3E Rainbow Staff    0   5   4000  (12)  Str: Holy, Add: Shell/Protect/Reflect (100% for one status)
3F Wizard Staff     5   5   2200   15   Str: Holy, MA +1
-- Sage Staff       0   5     10  (96)  Str: Holy, Add: Vanish (100%)


HAMMERS:           PA * WP
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
43 Flail           10   0   5000   15
-- Mace of Zeus     0   0  15000  (10)  Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP)


GUNS, PHYSICAL:    WP * WP
                   3 <= Range <= 8 (line of sight)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
                   Not subject to evasion
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
47 Romanda Gun      6   5   5000   11   Sp+1
48 Mythril Gun      8   5  15000   15   MA+1
-- Stone Gun       10   5  50000  (95)  Initial-Petrify, Add: Petrify (25%)


GUNS, MAGICAL:     [CFa/100 * TFa/100 * Q * WP]
                   Q = 14 : 60% of the time
                   Q = 18 : 30% of the time
                   Q = 24 : 10% of the time
                   Works as a magic spell with MA = WP
                   3 <= Range <= 8 (line of sight)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
                   Not subject to evasion
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
-- Blaze Gun       20   5     10  (91)  Casts Ice, Ice 2, or Ice 3          
-- Glacier Gun     20   5     10  (92)  Casts Fire, Fire 2, or Fire 3        
-- Blast Gun       20   5     10  (93)  Casts Bolt, Bolt 2, or Bolt 3


CROSSBOWS:         PA * WP
                   3 <= Range <= 5 (line of sight)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
4D Bow Gun          3   5    100    1
4F Cross Bow        6   5   2000   11   Cs: Helmet Break
51 Hunting Bow      8   5   8000   24   Cs: Armor Break
-- Gastrafitis     10   5  20000   33   ???


LONGBOWS:          [(PA + Sp) / 2] * WP
                   3 <= Range <= 5 + [height_difference/2]
                       (line of sight or parabolic arc)
                   Both hands only
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
53 Silencer         4   0    800    2   Add: Silence (100%)?
55 Ice Bow          5   0   2000   11   E: Ice, Blizzard
57 Windslash Bow    8   0   8000   27   E: Wind, Kamaitachi
58 Mythril Bow      7   0   5000   20   MA+2
59 Ultimus Bow     10   0  22000   37   Range+1
-- Perseus Bow     16   0     10  (53)  Add: Berserk (25%), Add: Blind (25%)
*I got the Silencer idea from Runescape (in which Archers are good against Mages). May need a bit of tweaking, but it seems pretty spicy.


INSTRUMENTS:       [(PA + MA) / 2] * WP
                   Range 3 (and only 3) (line of sight)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
5C Ramia Harp       0  10   5000   13   Add: Regen (100%)?
5D Bloody Strings  13  10  10000   25   Absorbs damage as HP
-- Fairy Harp       5  10     10  (36)  Add: Charm, Quick (100%)


DICTIONARIES:      [(PA + MA) / 2] * WP
                   Range 3 (and only 3) (line of sight)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
5F Battle Dict      8  15   3000   13   Cs: Titan
60 Monster Dict     8  15   6000   23   Cs: Silf
61 Papyrus Plate    8  15  10000   34   Cs: Leviathan
-- Madlemgen       11  15  30000  (95)  Auto-Undead, Cs: Lich


SPEARS:            PA * WP
                   Range 2v3 (4 directions)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   YES Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
64 Spear            8  10   2000   16   Jump+1
65 Mythril Spear    9  10   4500   10   MA+2
66 Partisan        10  10   7000   18   Add: Don’t Move (25%)
-- Oberisk         12  10  10000   25   Dark-elemental, M: Dark Holy
-- Holy Lance      12  10  36000   28   Holy-elemental, M: Holy
-- Dragon Whisker  18  10  44000  (96)  Half: Fire


STICKS:            MA * WP
                   Range 2v3 (4 directions)
                   Both hands only
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
6C Battle Bamboo    7  40   1400   13   PA+2
6D Musk Rod         8  40   2400   21   Absorb MP (PA*WP)
6E Iron Fan         9  40   4000   24   Add: Sleep (25%), Transparent (25%)
6F Gokuu Rod       10  40   7500   27   Add: Innocent (25%)
71 Octagon Rod     12  40  20000   40   Cancel: Protect, Shell, Haste,
                                         Regen, Float, Faith, Reraise,
                                         Reflect (25%; on target of ATTACK)
-- Whale Whisker   16  40  37000  (96)  Half: Water, Str: Water



CLOTHS:            [(PA + MA) / 2] * WP
                   Range 2v3 (4 directions)
                   NO  Two Swords
                   NO  Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
77 Persia           8  50   7000  (24)  PA+1
78 Cashmere        10  50  15000  (29)  Auto-Reflect
-- Ryozan Silk     15  50  40000  (95)  Move+1, Auto-Float


THROWN ITEMS:      Can only be used for THROW (damage = Sp * WP)
                   Range (Caster's Move)/1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SA NAME            WP  Ev  PRICE  E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
7A Shuriken         4   0         ( 1)
7B Magic Shuriken   7   0         (18)
7C Yagyu Darkness  10   0         (33)
7D Fire Ball        8   0         ( 1)  Fire-elemental
7E Water Ball       8   0         (18)  Water-elemental
7F Lightning Ball   8   0         (29)  Lightning-elemental


_______________________________________________________________________________
[B.2] shields
      =========================================================================

Shields offer both physical (P.SEV) and magical (M.SEV) evasion bonuses.  
See section 1.4 for details.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                   /S-Ev\
SA NAME            P.  M.  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------  --  --  -----  ----  ---------------------------------------
81 Buckler         15  10    700    3
84 Mythril Shield  10  30   2500   12   MA+1
85 Storm Shield    15   0   3500   15   Absorb&Str: Water, Wind
86 Ice Shield      15   0   6000   22   Absorb&Str: Ice, Half: Fire, Weak: Wind
87 Flame Shield    15   0   6500   22   Absorb&Str: Fire, Half: Ice, Weak: Water
88 Blast Shield    20   0  10000   22   Absorb&Str: Lightning, Half: Water, Weak: Fire
89 Diamond Shield  15  15  12000   25   Absorb&Str: Dark, Holy
8A Platina Guard    0   0  16000   29   Auto-Protect, Weak: Ice
8B Crystal Guard    0   0  21000   36   Auto-Shell
-- Genji Shield    30  20     10  (36)  PA+1
-- Kaiser Plate    20   5     10  (39)  Auto-Faith, Str: Fire, Lightning, Ice
-- Venetian Shield 25  25     10  (40)  Half: Fire, Lightning, Ice
-- Magic Seal      0  100     10  (50)  Auto-Innocent, Cancel: Fire, Lightning, Ice, Water, Wind, Dark, Holy


first of all thanks for putting everything in such a great format. now it's easy to address problems!

things i was thinking about:

02 Mythril Knife    4   5    500    3   MA+2
+2 MA is quite a big deal for an almost base item

axes are too weak for having auto berserk?

47 Romanda Gun      6   5   5000   11   Sp+1
+1 speed is a good idea?

crossbows still too weak?

64 Spear            8  10   2000   16   Jump+1
not too sure about giving movement bonus to a weapon...

6E Iron Fan         9  40   4000   24   Add: Sleep (25%), Transparent (25%)
weird item... also 40 evade on stick isn't to much?!

beside that i would say that everything looks good.

With Perseus Bow and Iron Fan, you should be able to make both status effects trigger simultaneously at 25%. I just thought sleep+transparent would be an interesting combo. Also, the Charm + Quick Harp should activate both simultaneously at 25% too. 100% would be broken as hell.

I agree that crossbows should probably have greater WP. Just let Gastrifitis have the most WP out of them. That should be enough.

Also, instead of that other generic flail, which is basically a sword, maybe we could use the Flame Whip but with the Blaze Gun formula (but make the WP lower than Blaze Gun since you can two-sword/hand a flail). It'd be a faith and WP-based weapon.

Yeah spd on a gun is something I'm just not sure about. Seems like it's there just to look pretty.

I like what you've done with the format and everything. And the silencing bow/dictionaries are cool. This is a good list

OK well I think this should have some use here... your Charm + quick harp is not really possible at all right now. All Quick adding forumlas are NS (No status infliction).

[Weapon] = ((PA*Brave/100)*PA) with Abilities
48 & 49 will always restore of 30 points when used as abilities. Basically the item's X and the abilities' X is not the same.
Weapons can use any formula but have a set X=0 & Y=0 which cannot be altered.

so
12 Set_Quick Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
becomes
12 Set_Quick Hit_F(MA)% NS
With 8MA, that's 8% chance to hit with neutral compatibility with evasion ignored.

NS = No status infliction possible
%chance to add status is 25% unless specified else.
F = Caster's Faith * Target's Faith /100^2
Rdm = Random
// = comment

The rest should be obvious.

00 Dmg_[Weapon]
01 Dmg_[Weapon]
02 Dmg_[Weapon] 25% Cast Spell Indexed As Status NS
03 Dmg_(WP^2) NS
04 Casts Ice, Fire, Bolt 1/2/3 depending on elemental
05 Dmg_[Weapon]
06 AbsHP_[Weapon] NS
07 Heal_[Weapon] NS
08 Dmg_F(MA*Y)
09 Dmg_(Y/100)% Hit_F(MA+X)%
0A Hit_F(MA+X)%
0B Hit_F(MA+X)%
0C Heal_F(MA*Y)
0D Heal_(Y)% Hit_F(MA+X)%
0E Dmg_(Y)% Hit_F(MA+X)% 100% Status Hide Status
0F AbsMP_(Y)% Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
10 AbsHP_(Y)% Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
11 NS
12 Set_Quick Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
13 NS
14 Set_Golem Hit_CasF/100*(MA+X)% GlmHP(TarMaxHP) NS
15 Set_CT00 Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
16 DmgMP_(TarCurMP) Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
17 Dmg_(TarCurHP-1) Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
18 NS
19 NS
1A Hit_F(MA+Y)% //-PA/MA/SP_(X) NS
1B DmgMP_(MA+Y)% Hit_F(X)% NS
1C Hit_(X)% NS
1D Hit_(X)% NS
1E Dmg_((MA+Y)*MA/2) #Hit(Rdm{1,X})
1F Dmg_((100-CasF)*(100-TarF)*(MA+Y)*MA/2) #Hit(Rdm{1,X})
20 Dmg_(MA*Y) //MayDisplay"Broken"
21 DmgMP_(MA*Y) //MayDisplay"Broken"
22 //MayDisplay"Broken"
23 Heal_(MA*Y) //MayDisplay"Broken" NS
24 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA)
25 Equipped:Break Hit_(PA+WP+X)% NS ELSE WeaponStrike //1TargetOnly NS
26 Equipped:Steal Hit_(SP+X)% ELSE miss
27 StealGil_(CasLVL*SP) Hit_(SP+X)% NS
28 StealExp_(Lowest of TarCurExp & SP+Y) Hit_(SP+X)%
29 OppositeSex: Hit_(MA+X)% ELSE miss
2A Hit_(MA+X)% //AffectBraveOrFaith(Y)
2B Hit_(PA+Y)% //-PA/MA/SP_(X) NS
2C DmgMP_(X)% Hit_(PA+Y)% NS
2D Dmg_(PA*(WP+Y)) 100% Status
2E Equipped:Break Dmg_(PA*WP) NS ELSE miss
2F AbsMP_(PA*WP) NS
30 AbsHP_(PA*WP) NS
31 Dmg_((PA+Y)/2*MA)
32 Dmg_(Rdm(1..X)*(PA*3+Y)) NS
33 Hit_(PA+X)%
34 Heal_(PA*Y) HealMP_(PA*Y/2) NS
35 Heal_(Y)% Hit_(PA+X)%
36 +PA_(Y) NS
37 Dmg_(Rdm(1..Y)*PA)
38
39 +SP_(Y) NS
3A +Brave_(Y) NS
3B +Brave_(X) +PA/MA/SP_(Y) NS
3C Heal_(CasMaxHP*2/5) DmgCas_(CasMaxHP/5) NS
3D Hit_(MA+X)%
3E Dmg_(TarMaxHP-1) NS
3F Hit_(SP+X)%
40 Undead: Hit_(SP+X)% ELSE miss
41 Hit_(MA+X)%
42 Dmg_(PA*Y) DmgCas_(PA*Y/X) NS
43 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) NS
44 Dmg_(TarCurMP) NS
45 Dmg_(TarMaxHP-TarCurHP) NS
46 NS
47 AbsHP_(Y)% 100% Status
48 Heal_(Z*10)
49 HealMP_(Z*10)
4A Heal_(100)% HealMP_(100)%
4B Heal_(Rdm(1..9)) 100% Status
4C Heal_(MA*Y) NS
4D AbsHP_(Y)% Hit_(MA+X)% NS
4E Dmg_(MA*Y) Hit_(MA+X)%
4F Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) Hit_(MA+X)% NS
50 Hit_(MA+X)%
51 Hit_(MA+X)%
52 Dmg_(CasMaxHP-CasCurHP) 100% Add Status CasterInAoE: DmgSelf_(CasCurHP) NS
53 Dmg_(X)% Hit_(MA+X)%
54 HealMP_(MA*Y) NS
55 -PA_(Y) Hit_(MA+X)% NS
56 -MA_(Y) Hit_(MA+X)% NS
57 +Lvl(1) NS 100% Add Status on Caster
58 Generic: Set_Malboro: Hit(MA+X)% //1TargetOnly ELSE nothing
59 -Lvl(1) Hit_(MA+X)% NS
5A Dragon: Hit(100)%
5B Dragon: Heal_(Y)% 100% Add Status
5C Dragon: +Brave_(X) +PA/MA/SP(Y) NS
5D Dragon: Set_Quick NS
5E Dmg_((MA+Y)/2*MA) #Hit_(X+1) 6.25% Status
5F Dmg_((MA+Y)/2*MA)
60 Dmg_((MA+Y)/2*MA) 6.25% Status
61 -Brave_(Y) Hit_F(MA+X)% NS
62 -Brave_(Y) Hit_(MA+X)% NS
63 Dmg_(SP*WP)
64 Dmg_((PA*Brave/100)*PA) NS
65 Dmg_((PA*Brave/100)*PA)
66 "
..
FF "

Thanks for the heads up. I would just leave it as Charm: 25% then.