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SOR- Classes

Started by SentinalBlade, September 03, 2009, 12:59:50 pm

SentinalBlade

September 03, 2009, 12:59:50 pm Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
Be warned, these are not final, and most abilities are just here for testing hacks and whatnot(theres lots of instant death abilities, the majority of these will be removed). I will include ltos of ASM hacks, so if you see something that makes you go "holy crap this is OP, did they add the ASM hack?" then yea, i added the asm hack.(such as teh bravery/faith unable to permanently mod)

New Status:
Weakened: The opposite of beserk, deal 33% less damage, doesnt last long(maybe 2 full turns for the target with 9 speed)

Dampened:(this is a work in progress) Reverses the elemental circle. As in whatever an element is strong against, it is now weak to it.
 Example would be Fire normally being weak to water. Dampened Reverses it, and makes water weak to fire, and fire weak to ice and so forth.

For the love of god, please keep in mind these are from quick brain storms and havent undergone excruciating testing yet. almost all, if not everything, will be changed. Also, therye MP growth is a static number through out. this is to prevent someone from having much more Max Rage, and gives another reason to be in a class(classes will have a different multiplier from each other, unlike growth)

Fire. HIGHLY Offensive. Heavy Weapons, Light armor(cloth)

Class name:  Pyro Blade

Weak to: Water
Absorbs: Fire, halved
Strong against: Ice

HP Growth: 12
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 97
Speed Multiplier: 102
PA Growth: 38
PA Multiplier: 120
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 72
Move: 4
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Sword, Knight Sword, Axe, Flail, Hat, clothing, All Accessories


skills:
Flame Spiral - AOE on self. So he can absorb a bit of damage he does to himself
Blaze Rush - Range 3, Damage PA, Damage self 1/8, requires sword
Fire Bomb:chance on inflicting berserk
Flare Sword - 4 Range, 8 CT, 45 MP, PA * (MA + Y)/2. Requires sword. Y = 8
Melt Armor - Breaks enemies armor
Lava Wave - Range of 3, attacks all 3 panels
Infuriate/Enrage for fire class - PA +2, add berserk to user. As Temp, berserk cannot be added. For now it is a high "rage" required move for +2 PA

R/S/M
Counter
Equip Sword
Attack Up
move + 1

Innate:
Cannot Enter Water

Notes: Highest damage dealing Pure. unable to enter water harms the classes mobility without proper planning


--------------------

Ice. Mix of damage and support: Robes, Poles, Catalysts

Class Name: Crystal Seer

Weak To: Fire
Absorbs: Water, halved
Strong Against: Wind

HP Growth: 8
HP Multiplier: 85
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 100
Speed Growth: 99
Speed Multiplier: 112
PA Growth: 50
PA Multiplier: 90
MA Growth: 39
MA Multiplier: 110
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Catalyst, Rod, Book, Hat, Robes, All Accessories


Skills:
Ice Armor: cast Protect
Encase: small AOE stop
Tundra: damage to everyone on map(healing ice of course)
Ice Shards: AOE MA damage. 25% slow
Cold Spike: Cause a targets temperature to decrease, inducing hypothermia: Death Sentence
Glacier: Large AOE ice damage.

R/S/M:
Speed Save
Magic Defense Up
Walk on Water

Notes: Fastest Caster. The idea behind that is that it slows everything else on teh field down with its global attacks. the concept will no doubt change, but it a change of pace that makes more sense than "fire spreads fast ,so its the fastest" or "wind is...WIND!"
--------------------

--------------------
Wind. Healing. Robes, Rods, Ranged weapon support.

Class Name: Mistral Curator

Weak to: Ice
Absorbs: Wind, Halved
Strong against: Earth

HP Growth: 12
HP Multiplier: 75
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 110
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 105
PA Growth: 50
PA Multiplier: 100
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 120
Move: 4
Jump: 4
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Catalyst, Long Bow, Book, Hat, Clothes, Robes, All Accessories


Skills:
Breath of Life: RAnged AOE raise based on faith
Wind's Kiss: Single Target, Large heal for random amount(if i cant hack the formula to heal randomly, we will just make it a big heal)
Gale: medium AOE damage
Breeze: Heal all allies for low HP
Wisp: Haste
Precision(Temp Name): Cures Blind, Dont Act, Silence, Slow. Heals 20% of max HP

r/s/m:
Reflexs

Earth. Defensive. Heavy Armor, Shields, Heavy Weapons.

Class Name: Golem

Weak to: Wind
Absorbs: Earth, Halved
Strong against: Lightning

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 135
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 110
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 39
PA Multiplier: 125
MA Growth: 48
MA Multiplier: 90
Move: 3
Jump: 2
C-EV%: 10

Equip: Sword, Knight Sword, Axe, Flail, Pole Arm, Shield, Helmet, Armor, All Accessories


Skills:
Magic Ward: Protect+shell. moderate % chance. range of 2
Earth Grasp: Causes Immoblize, Damage on PA
Devestate: Resets ENTIRE maps CT
Fortify: Range of 2, selects allies. Acts as Golem.
Collapse: Causes the earth beneath the target to collapse, forcing them to move backwards. Random PA damage, forced knockback
Quake
Tainted Briar: Aoe Poison
Mudslide: Line skill damage, range of 3, small chance to petrify.


R/S/M:
Equip Armor
Equip Shield
Caution
Move-HP-UP

Notes: Default movement of 3 spaces, and jump of 2

Lightning. Offensive. Light Armor, Ranged Weapons.

Class Name: Discharged

Weak to: Earth
Absorbs: Lightening, Halved
Strong against: Water

HP Growth: 11
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 90
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 45
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 83
Move: 4
Jump: 4
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Ballista, Long Bow, Hat, clothing, All Accessories



Skills:
Energy Rush: Line skill, range of 3, vertical of 12, damage on speed.
Invigorate: Plus 2 Bravery to everyone in an AOE of 2 around caster(brave gain is temp. this will help fury be awesome)
Ac/Dc: Weapon Range attack that attempts to disarm the opponent. Inflicts Don't Act.
Steel Current: Attempt to disarm every opponent in a medium AOE(2) at a low %(id say like 20, so if something is water it will be max of 40% on neutral compat)
TouchDown: Long range lightining strike.
Sky Strike: Weapon Damage, hit any tile on the map of your choice.

R/S/M:
Arrow Guard


Water. Mixed caster. Light Armor and Robes

Class Name: Hydrocantor

Weak to: Lightening
Absorbs: Water, Halved
Strong against: Fire

HP Growth: 13
HP Multiplier: 100
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 115
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 65
PA Multiplier: 50
MA Growth: 55
MA Multiplier: 130
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Catalyst, Rod, Hat, Robes, All Accessories


Skills:
Fog: Blind status on large AOE
Torrent: High AOE Water Damage
Drizzle. Healing
Tranquility: Removes most devestating debuffs(like vampire)
Vaporize: % chance to cause instant death
Ripple. Random low level debuff
Submerging Chant: low damage, Add Frog

R/S/M:
Half MP
Move in Water

Dark. Like fire, sword skills, less offensive though and more defensive.

Class Name: Reaver

Weak to: Holy
Absorbs: Dark, Halved
Strong against: Holy

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 110
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 90
Speed Multiplier: 110
PA Growth: 44
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 90
Move: 4
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 20

Equip: Throwing Knives, Sword, Flail, Polearm, Shield, Armor, Hat, Clothing, All Accessories


Skills:
Dark Embrace: Dark element heal. default 25% chance for shell(unsure about dependability on the hack casting shell on a heal spell, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt)
Envelope: Inflicts chicken on unit. Chicken status is fickle. if they take damage, they turn human. basically its a 1 turn deal where they run and hide, unless interrupted by having any action performed on them
Embrace: swordskill causes damage and possibly death sentence.
Hell Gate: Rip open a gate to hell on a target with your sword. Leaves the target with 1 HP. requires Sword
Paradox: Inflicts faith magic damage with a 25% for confusion
Shadow Slash: Powerful slash, that will force a unit into darkness. Their next attack will be 100%

Notes: Starting Transparent, For the initial 100% attack. AI ignore transperent hack will be included

Holy. Like a front line healer. tankidan. Heals, survives, deals no damage.

Class Name: Overseer

Weak to: Dark
Absorbs: Holy, Halved
Strong against: Dark

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 110
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 100
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 50
PA Multiplier: 50
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 90
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Catalyst, Flail, Armor, Helmet, Robes, All Accessories


Skills:
Embrace Light- Heal + Protect
Luminous Mirror-Reflect
Light Flay-Light Lite damage
Clutch of Life - Big heal, single target
Legionnaires' spirit - Reraise
Gentle Carress - AOE heal around caster. 40% max hp

Innate: Defense UP

Earth+Wind

Class Name: Eroder

Halves: Earth, Wind

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 90
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 95
Speed Multiplier: 95
PA Growth: 45
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 45
MA Multiplier: 110
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Sword, Throwing Knife, Long Bow, Hat, clothing, All Accessories


Skills:
Diamond Dust: Causes blind and poison.
Rampant Growth: Haste, regen on target
Briar: random hits, small AOE. damage
Erosion: Wears away the enemies shield.(rend shield clone; for clarity)
Ravaging Winds: Hits AOE, 1-3 times, for moderate damage(not random hits, hits random times)
Nature's Song: +1 MA to all units. 45%, unmodifiable
Hurl: use the strenght and speed of the wind to hurl an object at a target. Knockback
Flailing Winds: Random damage
Riding the Winds: LOW % Haste on entire party.

R/S/M:
Ignore Height
Move-Get-JP

Innate Ignore Height.

Earth + Holy

Class Name: Apostle

Halves: Earth, Holy

HP Growth: 11
HP Multiplier: 80
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 80
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 55
PA Multiplier: 75
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 105
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Rod, Book, Hat, clothing Robe, All Accessories


Skills:
Ire: Beserk. Fills the unit with rage against holy conspiraters
Sermon: Faith
Tribute: Takes hp from caster and gives to target
Convert: Invite
Mass: Sleep
Eulagy: Death
Impudence: Demand a target cease talking, and chastise with words of god. Adds Silence
Coddle: Add Protect or Shell to target, low chance, no rage required

R/S/M:
Monster Talk - renamed to Preach

Innate Teleport 2. Only player avaliable way to get teleport 2, and its innate to only this class.

Dark + Ice. magic/supportive caster with better defenses than most

Class Name: Lich

Halves: Dark, Ice

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 1010
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 110
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 50
PA Multiplier: 50
MA Growth: 43
MA Multiplier: 120
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Catalyst, Rod, Book, Hat, Clothing, Robes, Armor, All Accessories


Skills:
Chill Touch: high% Slow
Black Ice: Cause confusion and damage
Ice Nova: Slow, Sleep, and don't mova in a large aoe around caster
Iron Bones: Protect on moderate% medium AOE
Undeath: Zombie
Drain touch
Death and Decay: Inflict Poison + Death Sentence
Soul Sap: Steals some of a targets Rage/MP

R/S/M:
Counter Magic
Dragon Spirit - renamed Phylactery

Innate: Undead

Water + Lightning. AOE Damage. Female Only.

Class Name: Storm Mistress

Halves: Wind, Lightning

HP Growth: 15
HP Multiplier: 90
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 75
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 110
PA Growth: 50
PA Multiplier: 70
MA Growth: 50
MA Multiplier: 100
Move: 3
Jump: 3
C-EV%: 5

Equip: Knife, Sword, Catalyst, Hat, clothing, All Accessories


Skills:
Hurricane - Large AOE, medium damage
Monsoon - medium aoe, High damage
Douse - Reverse Circle of Elements
Thunder Storm - Large AOE random hit
Disperse - Transparent self
Torrent: Line Skill medium damage
Flash Flood: slow on all enemies

Coming Soon~(male only, to coincide with the female lightening counter part)

Fire + Water. Ranged or meele support.

Class Name: Ript Nomad

Halves: Water, Fire

HP Growth: 10
HP Multiplier: 110
MP Growth: 15
MP: Multiplier: 80
Speed Growth: 100
Speed Multiplier: 100
PA Growth: 48
PA Multiplier: 110
MA Growth: 47
MA Multiplier: 115
Move: 3
Jump: 4
C-EV%: 10

Equip: Knife, Sword, Bow, Book, Polearm, Hat, Clothing, Robe All Accessories


Skills:
Dehydrate: Death Sentence, or confused, or slow, or "Weakened"
Thermal Wave:  Large AOE around caster
Sediment "something": Causes the dirt around the target area to become hard to move in. AOE Slow.
Tidal Pool: Creates a pool of water that disease thrives in. single target 80% flat rate Poison.
Waning Moon: Regen
Magical Fallacy: Frog + Haste

Almost none of the R/S/M have been given out, and most of tehse class ideas are horrible, because im focusing on getting the basic ASM hacks done right now. Please, feel free to suggest things :)

PX_Timefordeath

September 03, 2009, 01:13:01 pm #1 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
[Lich]
Death & Decay: Deals 4% damage over an AoE every 3/4 CT
[Overseer]
Gift of Life/Light: Sacrifices HP to heal the HP of an ally(wish)

More to come

Skip Sandwich

September 03, 2009, 01:15:15 pm #2 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Skip Sandwich
Only major problem I see offhand is with the Dark/Ice hybrid, since it is innately undead, Dragon Spirit is actually a PENALTY, since if an undead unit gains reraise status, the undead status prevents the raise effect, and the reraise status prevents the zombie raise effect, so if they die, they don't crystallize, but they neither auto-raise nor can be raised by any means. Other then that, it's mostly some minor changes/suggestions, but it's a fairly long list, so i'll need some time to orginize my thoughts and format them, so i'll get back to you on that later.
"Dave?  Are you there?"
"Yeah.  I can't get you through the cell now."
"You have to talk through the bratwurst from now on. I'm sorry. I didn't know it would do that."
http://www.johndiesattheend.com

Sephirot24

September 03, 2009, 02:05:03 pm #3 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
Innate teleport 2 for Apostle? Woah.

SentinalBlade

September 03, 2009, 03:32:26 pm #4 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"[Lich]
Death & Decay: Deals 4% damage over an AoE every 3/4 CT
Not possible with my current knowledge of ASM. especially not for just one skill(i dont have the time to focus on individual abilities)

Quote[Overseer]
Gift of Life/Light: Sacrifices HP to heal the HP of an ally(wish)

Apostle has Tribute. it does the same thing :P

Quote from: "Sephirot24"Innate teleport 2 for Apostle? Woah.

Drastic, i know. But its innate, it is the only one(other than bosses) to get it. The sad thing about the Apostle is its akin to the mediator class, only now it has rage costs. I had to give a reason to even be in the class(how many mediators do you see as base class characters in 1.3, or even vanilla?), His effects got some additions from the normal mediator-style, and the innate teleport 2 should let him actually "play a part" on a team, rather than just "Get skillset and run" type of class

SilvasRuin

September 03, 2009, 06:18:32 pm #5 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
You'd think just innate teleport 1 would be enough since you can combine other movement abilities with it, AND it wouldn't make Move +1 obsolete on the job.  Seriously, Teleport 1 is probably a much better choice.  It is potent as it is, and you could easily combine it with something else for the individual character setup to further increase its potency.

Also... why does it say Ice absorbs Water?  Shouldn't it absorb Ice?

PX_Timefordeath

September 03, 2009, 06:25:35 pm #6 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by PX_Timefordeath
Death & Decay is based off the Lich in WC3, which does the same thing. Just use demi formula, change it to 4%, bigger AoE, and put on Persevere flag so that it repeatedly casts.

FFMaster

September 03, 2009, 06:31:21 pm #7 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by FFMaster
Quote from: "SentinalBlade"(how many mediators do you see as base class characters in 1.3, or even vanilla?)

Just as a very small note, Mediators are used because they have Monster Talk, and will free up a spot for another support like MDefUP. Very useful in certain battles in the story, and a bunch of those 11v5 battles.

I'm agreeing with SilvasRuin here, Teleport 2 is a bit much. Teleport and Move+3 is already making me cringe in terror.


EDIT:
QuoteWeakened: The opposite of beserk, deal 33% less damage, doesnt last long(maybe 2 full turns for the target with 9 speed)

Could be too weak. Comparing to berserk, it is pretty terrible. Berserk causes the AI to behave terribly, loses reactions and they take extra damage, while dealing more. Weakened, however, can still leave you with plenty of options, like healing and status magic.
  • Modding version: Other/Unknown
☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢ CAUTION CAUTION ☢

Sephirot24

September 03, 2009, 08:36:12 pm #8 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
If Apostle is as useless as a mediator base class, then teleport 2 is fine.

SentinalBlade

September 03, 2009, 10:54:46 pm #9 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
We will test Teleport 2 out. in my experience, a class thats lacking reason to be in it as a base, and adding a HUGE incentive to use it actually helps more than it hurts. Even if his movement is OP, his skills are under powered. It also makes enemy Apostle's less useless.

Apostle's wont be receiving monster talk, and even if it did, it would still be an obvious choice to go overseer or Crystal Seer. Monster Talk is not on many players minds when building a team, especially on a team of humans with elemental strengths over monsters. I know your point wasn't "give monster talk to the apostle" but just letting you know, its hard to find an innate that would fit well and limit, but set free at the same time. If his skillset grows in strength anytime soon, i will be removing it

Yes it is supposed to say ice xD typo on my part


Weakened as mostly a side effect, It occurs on several attacks(mainly form the reaver class) and is used to give those meele skills the extra "umph" without being to strong by inflicting stone or frog or to weak by inflicting blind(especially because right now im having trouble finding the hit % in the RAM even)

Dormin Jake

September 03, 2009, 11:18:19 pm #10 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Dormin Jake
Why not simply make the Apostle better?  Using a ridiculously overpowered movement ability on an underpowered class doesn't seem like the best balance move.  Especially if you're allowing these classes to carry secondaries.
We are Dormin. Thou art to bring us a tasty beverage.

SilvasRuin

September 04, 2009, 12:46:39 am #11 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
Came back to finish looking these over.  I really must question why you chose to name Diamond Dust Diamond Dust.  Poison and Blind doesn't make sense to me, and the whole concept seems to spit in the eye of Shiva's signature attack.
I also think you might want to rethink the name of that job altogether too.  There's quite a lot of buffing to be called "Eroder."  Eroding is wearing away, so debuffing fits quite well.  Buffing does not.

Took a break from specific jobs and looked at the spread.  In my opinion, you should either have only one duel-job with Dark or you need two duel-jobs with Holy to match.  Considering those two are supposed to counterbalance each other all on their lonesome...  Holy has the odds unfairly stacked against it.  As for the others, I can understand the difficulty in spreading them out evenly.  Hrm... I do have an idea for a solution.  You'd have to possibly redo some elemental combination concepts though.
You can even out the distribution of the elements by giving both Holy and Dark an extra combo job, making it two each, then giving one of three specific sets of elements The remaining extra combo jobs.  (Or removed the male and female only ones to make it break even for all in the main circle.)  Those sets are Lightning and Ice, Earth and Fire, and Wind and Water.  Each set are on opposite corners of the wheel, so the unbalancing is minimal.  I'll look at the combinations and job concepts later and see if I can come up with something that will take minimal shuffling.  Unless of course my advice is out of the question...?

SentinalBlade

September 04, 2009, 01:06:58 pm #12 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
The apostle has lots of uses, but so far the skillset is situational, and requires planning. I guess i should've explained better... Its not underpowered, it just takes alot of setting up and thought about how you will use it and in what. Tricking units into position is generally favored, EVEN BY THE AI(sorry for caps, this just surprised me). and TP2 helps immensly with that and easily brings it up to snuff to other classes, but not over it. Admittedly, in some maps if you use it correctly that thing dominates the entire field in its own right. But so does every other class if used correctly, and not countered.

So far its also the ONLY class the AI uses SUPERBLY, but takes the player time to understand. It does well with them all, but it just seems to know how to hand the apostle. Its still a hard choice, and im looking for ways to boost the skillset and just give innate teleport 1. But to justify them costing rage, its hard to find correct values.

The only thing i can come up with is lowering the power of all the skills, but making them free(in turn, generating rage instead of costing it), so its a good seconadary, but teleport1 + move+3 would be a savy tactic(although, i am thinking about removing move +3 and jump +1(to useless, even early on in tier standards) in favor of new movement abilities.

@silvasruin: In retrospect, eroder was a temporary name, me, PX, and DP were having an EXTREMELY hard time with this class. Any suggestions for the name would be great.

Also, silvas, i hope your aware that upon completion this hack will have a new story and nothing to do with FFT save for a Cameo or two. Diamond Dust can refer to Cocaine(For obvious reasons. White dusty stuff that has serious side affects(poison and blind), Which in turn comes from various minerals(most taken in part form the earth, despite being man-synthesized)

I had originally thought of those as what i wanted, and anything is up for suggestion and not "outright" shot down, i actually think about what is posted, so please don't hesitate.

The Male and Female Classes Stay, if anything because of story elements, but also because we dont have much custom class space as it is. I need every mechanic i can get, even if it diverges from everyone having everything available.

I am perfectly fine with completely Removing earth+wind element entirely for a new element Combo, Earth having 3 combos makes it cumbersome to balance, but as stated, it is hard for only 3 people to brainstorm class names and such(btw, a new class name for Lightning would be really appreciated!! :) )

The Dark+Lightening class must stay though, For story purposes. Its actually a small sect of Templar, suggested by tithin. Most of the skills are worked out, but hardly balanced, or figured enough to post. I have lots of ideas for this one, not enough space xD

Water+Lightening may go, since it counter balances. Though the class fits well with itself(Storm Mistress, Female Only, Weather-like skills) But if you have another combo that you would like to suggest, please do.

EDIT: this is a text example of apostle domination
The apostle goes first, and gets protect off on an enemy golem.
---several units pass, and we both have knocked off 2 of each others team----
An enemy Golem(still has protect) comes in range and casts diamond dust two panels away from my Fire Blade.
An Enemy Overseer comes up and whacks my fire blade
My Mistral Caster starts casting his heal
My Pyro Blade Rushs up there to the side of them, and gets in the heal AOE next to the mistral caster, and uses Lava Wave, hits enemy overseer and Golem.
Apostle ports near and uses "impudence" on my Mistral caster. the AOE manages to hit my Mistral Caster with Silence, but miss my Pyro Blade.
My Mistral Caster cannot heal my dieing pyro blade.

-Several Turns later-
I am now left with a Lich, and the enemy is down to an apostle, and an Overseer

My lich has shell currently, and the overseer is undead thanks to "Undeath"

Im about to kill the overseer, as she cant heal herself. I hit her with black ice, and confuse does not proc.

The Apostle rushes in,  even though its in critical health, and Hits the overseer with Eulagy (the bastard didnt even use that skill until then! i didnt know it had it xD) and it hits. healing the overseer completely.

The overseer then uses "Clutch of life" and heal-damages my undead lich for 284 points of damage.

YOU JUST LOST THE GAME

Sephirot24

September 04, 2009, 02:02:42 pm #13 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by Sephirot24
I think that for now, until we see / use the Apostle, you can leave him with Teleport 2. If it needs re-balancing, you can give him innate Teleport 1 and upgrade the class move to 8 or something. That way, even if the player equips move + 3 it won't be as good as Teleport 2, and it still will be very useful.

SilvasRuin

September 04, 2009, 03:11:59 pm #14 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
God Arrow might be too grandiose a name for Lightning.  Thunderbolt is a much less grand way of saying the same thing (except Zeus used them as spears, not arrows).  Skyfury might work, but I'm not adoring that name.  Fulminator has the connotation I'm looking for, but the name doesn't flow as well as I would like.  Fulmination doesn't sound right as a noun referring to a person.  Heaven's Spear sounds too much like it would be Holy, and it might be too long.  Skyspear?

If you're going to keep Dark and Lightning, I suggest ditching Lich's Ice element.  Were you trying to mimic WC3's Lich or something?  Figuring out another element to combine with would work better for keeping things even (Lightning is opposite from Ice).  Ice would go better with Holy.  I'm thinking Convictor might be a worthy name and beginning of a concept for an Ice and Holy mix.  Perhaps Lich can have Earth?  In my opinion, the two could go quite well together.




EDIT:  Ah, just looked again at Apostle's element.  Maye I'll rethink this...  Dang, Lich wouldn't really go well with either Wind or Fire... or could it?  Fire Lich could be an interesting new approach to it... hm...  Apostle could stay Holy and Earth that way and then you could add a Holy and Ice.  It would even out perfectly for Holy and Dark.  Dark would have an advantage with Lich being Fire and have a disadvantage with the one that is Dark and Lightning.


So, here's my proposal:  (Bolt is shorter than Lightning, so it saves space while I type this)

Dark + Bolt
Dark + Fire
Holy + Earth
Holy + Ice
Water + Bolt
Wind + Ice

Dark + Bolt has a disadvantage to Holy + Earth.  Dark + Fire has an advantage to Holy + Ice.  Holy and Dark remain on equal footing because of this.
There are two Ice combinations and two Bolt combinations.  Since they are on opposite ends of the circle, they affect as little as possible.
Interestingly enough, you can make the Holy + Ice combination female only and the following will be true:
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the extra Holy/Dark jobs.
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the Holy/Dark jobs that have a disadvantage.
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the cause of there being two combinations of Ice/Bolt.
- The gender exclusive jobs' elements are on completely opposite ends of the circle.

This means males will have an extra Dark and Bolt job and females will have an extra Holy and Ice job, and both jobs are dead even with each other in (dis)advantages.

You already have Water + Bolt, so just make it gender neutral and name it Tempest or something.
Wind and Ice should be easy enough of a concept to fill out.  What elements are more merciless than unrelenting wind on a freezing tundra?  It could be made a very vicious debuffer, or weak attacks that hit repeatedly/continuously to wear enemies down.

SilvasRuin

September 04, 2009, 05:27:01 pm #15 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
Lich proposal:
Damage attacks with debilitating side-effects.

Fire and Darkness

Skills:
Firevein Virus - Berserk and Death Sentence
Dark Fire - Fire damage, random Stop, Slow, Don't Move
Hellfire - Surrounding AoE Fire damage, Seperate Confuse, Blind, Oil, and Poison
Iron Bones
Undeath
Drain Touch
Decay - All or nothing Poison and Dark damage
Soul Sap

Boreal proposal:
Indirect/risky attacks and debilitation

Ice and Wind

Cruel Wind - mimic Dancer's hp dance, make it Wind, and give it a small cost and small buff.  That Geomancer snowstorm animation.
Brittle Defense - rend shield
Hypothermia - mimic Dancer's status song, Random Slow, Stop, Sleep, Weakness, Don't Move.  Ice element to affect chances.
Hail - relatively weak damage, basic AoE, 10 random hits, Ice animation, you might not want to animate misses.
Breathless - Single target, Wind, Separate Weakness, Sleep, Silence, Stop, Confuse, and maybe Death?
Flurries - inflict either Blind or Confuse, AoE, all enemies, or everyone.
Avalanche - charge time on top of a high mp cost, hit all enemies for high ice damage.  This really should take a while to build up.

I don't have an eighth ability in mind.

DarthPaul

September 05, 2009, 09:24:58 am #16 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by darthpaul
Great ideas Silvas, but why do you think Lich should be Fire and Darkness?
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die

SilvasRuin

September 05, 2009, 03:00:38 pm #17 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SilvasRuin
To balance out Holy and Darkness.  The way I arranged the elements is mainly because of what I said here:
QuoteDark + Bolt has a disadvantage to Holy + Earth. Dark + Fire has an advantage to Holy + Ice. Holy and Dark remain on equal footing because of this.
There are two Ice combinations and two Bolt combinations. Since they are on opposite ends of the circle, they affect as little as possible.
Interestingly enough, you can make the Holy + Ice combination female only and the following will be true:
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the extra Holy/Dark jobs.
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the Holy/Dark jobs that have a disadvantage.
- Both gender exclusive jobs will be the cause of there being two combinations of Ice/Bolt.
- The gender exclusive jobs' elements are on completely opposite ends of the circle.
Lich and Apostle would be neutral towards each other in their secondary elements, and so would the Holy/Ice and Dark/Lightning combos to each other.  It's all to keep the elements as evenly spread as possible and to keep any of them from getting a particular advantage because of the quantity of jobs with a particular element.

Also, I think combination jobs should have weaknesses too.  They may not absorb anymore, but they wind up with two elements they resist.  As it is, there's no reason not to use a combo as a base instead of a pure, if only because they have no weaknesses.  (Except for limited healing strategies the pures can take advantage of.)

DarthPaul

September 05, 2009, 04:53:57 pm #18 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by darthpaul
Very well put. New skills may have to come into effect, but that is small bother if it saves us the hassle of rebalancing down the road. Keep the ideas coming. I am off to find a pen to right down these suggestions.
Oh pitiful shadow lost in the darkness, bringing torment and pain to others. Oh damned soul wallowing in your sin, perhaps...it is time to die

SentinalBlade

September 05, 2009, 10:37:37 pm #19 Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 pm by SentinalBlade
Im liking the boreal, and the fire Lich isnt a bad idea if we can come up with another name for it, other than "Lich". The premise behind the lich was the "Cold Touch of Death", nothing from WC3 was in mind, and Death and Decay is actually a really old D&D premise that i believe was taken out. I never played, i just like reading the books for some reason. most of them are a wealth of wonderful ideas as well.

I broke out my dads D&D book, but i havn't had time to read it really well and make a fitting name or base an idea for a name.

QuoteDark + Bolt
Dark + Fire
Holy + Earth
Holy + Ice
Water + Bolt
Wind + Ice

I'm liking this approach :)

Weaknesses: I think the holy and dark classes should be weak against holy and dark, respectively, making it more versatile. Water+Bolt and wind+ice is going to be hard to make a balanced weakness. Looking at the pure's skillsets currently, what would you guys suggest?