Final Fantasy Hacktics

Will try to answer these questions briefly in case you can't make a meeting.

Quote from: Gaignun on June 09, 2016, 12:03:02 pm
I missed out on Discord discussions, so I am out of the loop.  May I ask a few questions?

First just some general questions:

Priests with 4 Move: What is the reason behind this proposal?  Are we transitioning priests into a melee role?
Black Magick Fire: Why is Oil being removed?
Books: What role are we redesigning this weapon type into?  It seems only Summoners, the proverbial glass cannon, can use books now.
Silence: Why is Silence being nuked?

1. To support their roles better and yes, because they can use flails. Priests have little to offer to use as a primary in most cases.

2. Because it is the only T1 spell to have AOE of two in Black magic. Also, Oil is returning to its old form as well as gaining weakness to Holy and Dark so having a 50% Oil AOE proc for Fire's low cost seems a bit much.

3. This is correct. While Summon Magic is a good skillset, Summoners themselves are unfortunately a bit underwhelming with their low HP and other lackluster stats. This gives them something to use Summoners for since the books are fairly decent weapons by themselves and are changing to MA * WP as the formula.

4. It is currently protected against by most mages and has very little to offer in terms of a status. Generally, Berserk or other status will give better, more reliable results.

Quote from: Gaignun on June 09, 2016, 12:03:02 pm
Next, a few comments:

Summon nerfs: I am of the belief that it's not Ramuh, Shiva, Ifrit, and Silf that are overpowered, but all the other summons that are underpowered.
Quake and Tornado nerfs: Compared to Black Magick Fire, these nerfed spells cost more MP and JP, yet are no more powerful.
Melt: This will murder casters without caution and M-EV.  It's Bizen Boat with 4 range, or Sinkhole that shuts down casters permanently (or until they somehow restore their MP).

1. I agree with you (and would include Silf in there too) but it's pretty hard to balance the other Summons without giving you some reason to go for them. Even doing something like increasing procs or MA multipliers would still make them a bit lackluster and the more reliable summons would still be unevadable and able to do 200+ damage with strengthen and 15 MA. I agreed to this mostly because even at their current forms, they are still viable options and the other Summons, with some being buffed, look good too. It's a middle ground.

2. Will be taking another look at them most likely. This was one of the more debated topics on what to do with these spells.

3. I actually have to disagree with you on this one. Now you can actually use a reaction (Absorb MP) to counter whereas you could not with Bizen Boat. In fact, it makes this reaction more useful. Bizen Boat's problem was that it didn't cost MP and a caster couldn't finish their spell and would have to waste two or more turns getting back to where they were. This has less AOE, but can actually now be countered by using Absorb MP. It's also slightly less powerful than meta Bizen Boat which was the other factor discussed when making this change.

Quote from: Gaignun on June 09, 2016, 12:03:02 pm
Now for some small suggestions.

Bags: Make them 0 WP to give players an opportunity to disable units' physical attacks.
Wish and Revive: Increase the constant from 70 to 80.  These abilities are bad.
Fairy: Increase AoE from 1 to 2 instead of increasing the constant from 75 to 85.  Increasing the constant does not make Fairy any more useful in my opinion.
Lay on Hands: Increase range from 1 to 2?
Maintenance: Make this a reaction or movement ability
Battle Boots and Red Shoes: Merge into a single accessory that provides +1 PA, +1 MA, and +1 Move.
Germinas Boots: Add +2 Jump to give Lancers an additional way to increase their jump speed.

1. I had mentioned before I wouldn't mind seeing a 0 WP weapon, but I don't think it should be a bag. It seems like too unique of an idea to just put on a bag. One of the cool things about bags right now is that it gives you an opportunity to raise stats or free regen, but the downside is when your unit uses it, it's not very impactful most of the time. To me, this is fair. When your AI decides to go for a bag whack, you've now seen the downside of equipping the bag for that "free" stat. I think most people accepted that argument. Do you agree or do you think that there should still be a 0 WP bag?

2. Eh, could probably go for 75%. They're kinda "there" and easy to use for a revival ability. They don't (and I believe shouldn't) need to be good because it's revival and simply having them is good. I like the idea of these missing. But that's just me. Don't think their percentages were discussed.

3. Why not? The problem here is that Fairy is pretty inaccurate for such a JP/MP expensive skill. It has that small change to resurrect a couple or even all three units but more often than not, the AI goes for one unit. I think it would be a bit much to be "mass resurrecting" a bunch of units, even if they're all at 1/3 HP. To me, that's really taking away from AOE skills since rarely can those one shot (and most are evadable.) I like increasing the accuracy though, because it becomes much more reliable, especially on low faith units.

4. Didn't look too closely at this skill until now. There will probably be more discussion on it since it was a recent addition. But my personal suggestion is to leave it 1 range, make it random HP cancel dead. But we can look at yours too.

5. I agreed with you on Maintenance being a movement ability but was outvoted

6. In reference to the last two issues, I'll combine. Wouldn't mind seeing them merge personally, but think the Jump+2 would be better on the one to be removed (so merge the one type of shoes and give the Jump+2 attribute to the one being left out.) I don't like the idea of a lancer being able to reach virtually across the map doing 2CT jumps on the first turn (which would be possible with a +2 Move + 2 Jump Accessory.)

[/Quote]

Quote from: Gaignun on June 09, 2016, 12:03:02 pm

And finally, some name ideas:

Secular Shield: Hallowed Shield
Provoke Bow: Bacchus Bow
MP Poison: Sap (easier to say)
MP Regen: Refresh (easier to say, and sounds similar to Regen)

The first two names I find fine. Second two names I think were because they are brand new and it was easy to name them what they are in order to not confuse new players. (But I'm not too picky so they sound find to me.)

The final discussion will be Friday, June 24th at 7 PM EST. That's 4PM EST PST. Until then, we will be meeting to discuss ideas and tweak anything. If you have major or minor issues with any proposed changes, please be sure to stop into the Discord room to discuss. THE FINAL DISCUSSION IS NOT THE TIME TO BRING UP MAJOR ISSUES. WE ARE TRYING TO BE AS ACCOMODATING AND AS COURTEOUS TO EVERYONE'S SCHEDULES AS POSSIBLE. THIS IS SIMPLY THE LAST DISCUSSION FOR ALL TWEAKS AND TO FINALIZE EVERYTHING.

Will probably be around in and out of Discord tonight.

If you have not given me your general availability as of yet, please do so. On Tuesday I will be posting the time and date of the final meeting. It will be at least seven days after that so that everyone can coordinate if they need to. Please tell me what days and times work best for you within the next 48 hours if you haven't done so already. Your schedule may not be considered if you don't! thanks all.

Hey guys!

We've reached the end of the road on the final draft with all skills, jobs, skillsets, etc being finalized. I really want to thank everyone for participating in the Discord discussions.

We are now in the phase to finalize decisions. So I'd like to get everyone's schedule and confirm a date and time that we can go over everything on the list. If possible, I'm hoping to get everyone in on this final discussion.

Now here is how this final discussion should go:

1. We want to spend very little time on finalizing each decision. Keep in mind in discord we have mulled over for some of these changes for hours. Each one that is changing, especially those that are changing significantly, probably has a strong reason it is doing so. This is mostly going to be to iron everything out and make sure there are no glaring mistakes or holes in the decisions that have been made. This might sound counter intuitive to the above statement, but we already spent the large amount of time discussing the changes. We don't need a third round discussing them more.

2. That being said, I'm asking everyone to read over the final draft in this thread so that if you have major issues before we get to them, you can bring them up ahead of time. You can drop by the discord discussion any time before 7 PM or post them in an appropriate thread or send them in a private message to me. Again, if you have a major issue and you wait until the final discord thread, there is a high chance it may not be heard due to time constraints!!

3. I will try my best to incorporate all schedules when I set the date, but more weight will be given to those that have participated in the discord discussions. I realize that some peoples' schedules have not lined up appropriately or live in different time zones, but to date I've only heard that from one person who has trouble participating due to time zone differences. But again, please respond with your availability and I'll try to come up with a date/time that incorporates it all.


So with all that, please send me your general availability if you'd like to participate and I will throw together some dates and times within the next couple of days. Thanks all.

With Holiday weekend activities, I was unable to make it much at all...I tried to pop in randomly at different points in the day but it wasn't working for me.

In any case, can make it tonight if anyone will be around.

Tonight I can probably do, tomorrow no, not sure about Saturday/Sunday atm but usually weekends are tough.

Hey guys, we are going through the final draft at a pretty decent pace. If we have five or more members on, we're able to really tackle stuff and have a great discussion. We generally sign in at 7 PM EST each night so if you're ever free, come join us there at that time and see if anyone is around.

However, I would really like to start getting GENERAL schedules together. What days are you USUALLY available and what days are you not? After this final draft, we are going to have the "set in stone" changes where all questions will be answered and work can actually begin on implementing the changes we talk about. We will want to schedule this with enough time so everyone can make themselves available and be able to participate. If we can get everyone's times that they're normally available for a period to do this, we can set a date and time where the "set in stone" discussions can take place. We are not yet done with the final draft so please continue to join in when you can for now, but if you could post or PM the best days and times for you to discuss, that would be great so when we do set a date, your schedule is taken into account. We don't want to exclude anyone so we will work around your schedule. Thanks all.

Sorry about that...real life got in the way tonight and I wasn't able to keep my appointment at 7 PM.

Anyway, I'd really like to try tomorrow night. Tuesday nights are perfect for me...and if you guys wouldn't mind, I think it'd be a good time to go over everything.

Who's available tomorrow? Promise I will be there as I have nothing going on.

Yes, I'm double posting but one thing I think we might have forgotten to discuss or at least overlooked were the maps. Some maps have a bit unfair starting positions and/or aren't used because of how they are. One example of a map I have an issue with is Besrodio's House since it has the big ball in the center, but there are others that some have mentioned. This would be something that might be nice to take a quick peek at to see if any of them can be made more balanced.

Now that it's not the weekend, I can participate again. Not sure what was decided on time or whatnot, but will be sign in at 7 PM just to see if anyone is online to discuss anything.

I will stop by tonight along with Andrew. Friday nights can be pretty difficult for me sometimes so atm, I'm not sure I can make it tomorrow but will stop by tonight just to check if anyone is on.

Are we going to have another discussion soon?

Zotis, my suggestion would be if you want to do something like this is to offer non-cash instead. Perhaps an online gift card or a copy of a game (digital so that personal details don't have to be disclosed preferably) or something like that. Cash gets a little tricky.

I would also keep it as two separate events. In other words, don't call it a "payout" or "prize pool" because that sounds like people paid in, like a slot machine, and that would be illegal in at least some areas in the U.S. Instead, keep the tournament as one event (where a player battles others) and then the award as a separate (in other words, you are donating something to someone because you were so impressed with their team which happened to win the tournament.)

I would also talk to the owners of the FFH forum to see if they are okay with you doing that.

That being said, either way I'm fine. I'd make a team for it if it got the okay, though I'd prefer to wait until 1.4 changes are finalized. But also fine just having our regular summer tournaments.

Quote from: Corosar on May 02, 2016, 12:18:38 pm
Here you are Zotis I grabbed the randomizer to get a team for you to play against! if anyone wants a match i will gladly record when i can though personal i am gonna perhaps wait till there are a few people want a match.

Note to self. Learn how to pronouce gastrafitis.

Zotis (Gastrafitis Cannon) Vs Silentkaster (40/40)

Thanks Corosar for the match.

Sounds good. I don't feel well today so tonight would probably not be good but tomorrow sounds fine.

Quote from: Zotis on May 02, 2016, 12:59:28 am
I just figured I'd give my thoughts on some of the topics Andrew mentioned on the first page.

I think Hi-potion's  JP cost does not need changing.  It feels balanced as is.

I don't think I like the idea of changing Grand Cross's AoE, don't know about the MP cost or vertical tollerance though.  It seems fine as is.

I don't know what "sticky targeting" means.  If the CT for Reraise gets reduced to 0, I perceive a problem as a unit gets up and reraises itself instantly could be a bit OP.

Hawk's Eye loosing poison makes sense, and adding Darkness instead could work thematically at least.

Leg Aim inflicting Stop instead  of Don't Move makes no sense.

Weapon Break is fine as is.  Weapon Steal makes less sense to me.

Wave Fist loosing Wind element does make sense.  It was always a non-elemental move and I think it works better as non-elemental.

Protect/Shell giving any healing at all does not make sense.

Dia should not be AoE at all, but 6 range could work, though I think it's fine as is.

Fire adding Oil has never made sense to me, especially since Oil boosts all elements and not just fire.  I would advocate changing Oil to only boosting Fire like in the original game.  Maybe make a different effect that boosts all/other elements?

Haste/Slow should be changed because as is they are never used.  Reduce the CT, MP cost, JP cost, and increase the percentage of success, an improvement of some kind at least should be made I think.

I don't see the need to change any of the Summon Magic.  Making Salamander non-elemental makes no sense.  Fairy healing more would be too OP.  Carbunkle being free to cast would be broken.

In conclusion I would like to say that change for the sake of change is pointless, even harmful.  Changes should only be made in the pursuit of gameplay balance.  Once things are solidified in a balanced way they should remain unchanged.  Maybe FFT Arena can grow into a competitive scene with $$ tournaments.  I'd like to see that, and constantly changing things doesn't help that because it changes the way the game is played and forces people to learn the new mechanics which can hinder the advancement of understanding the mechanics.  It takes time, years in fact, to gain mastery level understanding of advanced strategies and tactics which advances the metagame of competitive play.  So I don't like resetting that advancement unless it's essential.

Zotis, there are many reasons that we have proposed certain ideas. Let me tell you that something that I thought could get finished in the course of a night or two has turned into a discussion going back and forth on ideas for three nights and counting. We aren't even close to being done...we haven't discussed all the classes yet (which is where we started) let alone all the ideas. Some ideas for abilities and items have taken a half hour or longer on just one ability or item alone. We're not taking any of this lightly.

For example, regarding Hi-potion, you said "It feels balanced as is." However, the reason that we are proposing lowering the JP cost is because X-Potion is now 130 HP straight healing. In order to break even with Hi-Potion, you need to have a unit with at least 325 HP. It is hard for many units to get to 325 HP as is and as a result, hi-potion is used far less often. Why use it when it will take the spot of another item and do a minimal amount of "extra" healing than the X-Potion? This alone was probably a ten minute discussion and still gets touched upon. We will probably need to discuss it again when we get to the armors which we haven't even touched on yet.

That being said, many ideas that were initially proposed didn't make sense or I didn't agree with either until I heard reasons. Sometimes I still disagreed, sometimes I was swayed and sometimes I was so marginally on either side I was indifferent to a change. It's really helpful if you're able to join any of these conversations and while I realize that schedules are hard to line up and whatnot, joining the conversation even for a short period gives you the opportunity to realize the tone and method of these discussions and see where people are coming from.

Quote from: Gaignun on May 02, 2016, 09:35:28 am
Are these Discord discussions going to replace the Balance discussion thread?  Concerning 1.40, there is a wealth of arguments in the Balance thread that have been thought out and reasoned by many people over the course of nearly two years.  It would feel a little regrettable to jettison it.

No. In fact, Andrew compiled a list in a thread of most, if not all the suggestions of the past two years and made it easy to access. Your name gets mentioned a lot in the discord discussions too regarding certain ideas and proposals you have made. It's also why we're posting the ideas that we came up with so that if we've overlooked something, it can be commented on or discussed. In fact, this thread should not really be used to discuss ideas and whatnot...this should only be used to coordinate discord meetings. (I only mentioned hi-potion above as an example more to show the method at which we arrived at the suggestion rather than trying to refute his argument.)

Finally guys, when ideas are posted, I again want to stress don't take them as written in stone. We will have a final proposal when all is said and done because right now, ideas are still changing quite a bit as more people weigh in and offer suggestions.

Yes. Link at top of post...use the one that dw posted second.

Who will be able to make it? I'm not sure if we had firm plans for tonight since only Barren confirmed and I said I'm fine if others are. I'd like at least 4-5 people for discussion...if not we can always reschedule. I can do tonight or if not, can do Saturday/Sunday in the morning, or any day next week 7 PM and after EST.

Quote from: Barren on April 27, 2016, 08:50:57 am
I was thinking for Regenerator what if you get a 25% or 33% of Max HP heal then regen. That I think would help make regenerator more viable. Anyone here agree or disagree?

Completely disagree, unfortunately. Auto Potion heals for 70 HP regardless of the unit's damage taken. You're talking about healing, at minimum, 75 HP on a 300 HP unit (and 300 HP is very easy to get to in most cases). For Auto Potion to break even with just the HP alone, we're talking the unit has to be 280 HP which most mages get to fairly easily as well. The 400 HP paladins that would have this as a reaction would be game breaking I feel like.

If anything, I'd say a JP drop is fine. It's in white magic and the reaction isn't really supposed to be great anyway due to the fact that White Magic is such a necessary skill set. It can deal with the poison from Wiznaibus spam and other poison attacks, and/or be a way of passive healing for units that otherwise can't restore their own HP.

Quote from: Shintroy on April 27, 2016, 08:35:34 am
Don't agree with most, if not any of those changes due to making other abilities obsolete. Like Fairy being an AOE, smart targeting raise. I'll get into that at an appropriate time though.

Then I hope you can join us for the next discussion. Realize that we spent a hefty amount of time on each class we discussed (which reminds me, I forgot to bring up an issue I had with time mage but I was up way too late ) so none of the suggestions we came up with were taken lightly. The discussion went for a solid three+ hours on just those classes/abilities alone and while I don't agree with all of them either, I can see the reasoning behind each one. We haven't discussed the other eight classes yet or the Netherseer idea at all, so some of those abilities may change to compensate so if you know something we overlooked, please make sure you join us so we have that knowledge next time.

Quote from: Barren on April 27, 2016, 10:47:49 am
Well today i got plans after work but tomorrow might be a better day because I don't got work. Whatever time you want to do it just say the word

I'm fine with tomorrow at 7 or 7:30 EST if everyone else is. I'd at least like to get classes and abilities done this week if possible

Come join us for the 1.4 Arena discord discussion! https://discordapp.com/channels/174703237272698881/174703237272698881