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Messages - silentkaster

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41
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Season 5 Registration
August 24, 2016, 10:31:22 am
Okay guys, time is winding down. Remember, deadline is at the end of the day this Sunday!!! (11:59 PM EST so for those of you in other time zones) Make sure you get those teams in!! If you have any friends or know of anyone who wants to join, make sure they get Barren a team by then!!

Good luck everyone!

Edit: I've been asked by a couple players to look at their teams and make suggestions before the tournament. I can't record matches for you, but I can test the team and/or offer suggestions on what I think might be missing or helpful. I'm willing to do that and I'm sure a couple others here are as well.
42
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 23, 2016, 12:51:18 pm
Mine's coming up too. Reks and I are both Virgos.

I'm older than Reks. I'm going to be XX years old.

Trust me, 24 isn't as bad as what I'm facing :P
43
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 23, 2016, 09:58:50 am
Quote from: Corosar on August 23, 2016, 03:31:03 am
personally though i prefer to try and have at least one unit focusing on bahamut in almost all my teams. i just have to plan it out alot better is all. i can't have 4 units that do great seperately but have a horrible team.


The issue here is that Bahamut has a lot of issues that prevent you from just sticking it on any team and being successful. Bahamut is counter productive on most of the teams it's on which means that you're in a 3.5 vs 4 the entire match.

In contrast, if you said to me, "You can have the ability 'Steal Heart' on any one unit on any team for free, regardless of skillsets," you'd probably see me put it on 90%+ of my teams. This is because the ability can turn around an entire match if you're on the defensive, and despite its low accuracy, when it does hit, it at minimum wastes a turn on the other side and could be much worse to the opposing team.

If you said to me, "You can have the ability 'Masamune' on any one unit on any team for free, regardless of skillsets," you'd see me run it very often still, maybe 80% of the time, but not on every team. Most of the time, Masamune is a good skill that allows me to get my units out of critical if they run off and regen/haste is a powerful combo. However, it doesn't mean that I want it on all my teams. This keeps the AI back on the first couple of turns on big and medium maps and might screw up my turn order a bit. So I might want them to advance on the first turns together where Haste 2 would be more appropriate.

If you said to me, "You can have the ability 'Bahamut' on any one unit on any team for free, regardless of skillsets," you'd see me put it on probably 5% or less of my teams. This is because the ability requires all of the following.

1. You must build a unit with 70 faith for it to be effective. (I know you might argue that point since you built a 40 faith bard with it but hear me out as you read the next points.)

2. You must build a unit to stack MA for it to have much affect, and this sacrifices other, perhaps more useful, stats or status protections.

3. Bahamut is really slow and since you (probably) built your unit for MA, you can easily get midcharged by many abilities.

4. Bahamut is evadable and so even if you successfully get a Magic Attack UP Bahamut off, it might be for nothing against certain units.

5. The payoff is damage only, which means no disruption will happen other than damage. If you're not doing enough damage, then your opponent will shrug it off and continue their assault.

Don't get me wrong...it doesn't mean that a very strong, competitive team with Bahamut can't be built. It can. Take Rouroni Elmdor's Season 4 team. All the units were 8 speed if I recall correctly, too (or no higher than 9 anyway.) It was very strong and spanked my team and quite a few other good tournament teams in the early rounds. But it involved two mimes and two heavily built Samurai that focused on doing as much damage in the early stages as possible.

That's the overall problem with this skill. Unlike Steal Heart or Masamune, Bahamut isn't versatile enough to just have on every team. It's a skill where it takes careful building and planning around that skill. And if you want all your competitive teams to have Bahamut, then it means that most of your teams will look very similar since there are only very few limited ways to use that skill well.

Going back to Rouroni Elmdor, another team he had, I believe "The Raven King" (and if I got the wrong name, I apologize) was either undefeated or had a very very high win rate. But this team focused on two thieves that disrupted and acted as distractions while another two units picked off units and supported them. This was a test team that I used because it was so good, but it didn't have Bahamut.

So my thought is to focus on other skills and maybe only have one or two of your teams use Bahamut. I'm really just writing this to help you because you sound frustrated and tired of losing and I completely empathize and understand. But you have to also realize that Bahamut is not just not helping your teams, but it's really holding you back.


Quote from: Chemist on August 23, 2016, 03:36:25 am
Long bow/Guns are usually very good with Berserk so you don't have to deal with the height issues and can get some more bang for your buck in terms of damage. :)


Guns aren't so great because of map obstacles. And you're even more likely to shoot your allies in the back (and those shots will probably hurt if you're running good compat.)
44
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 22, 2016, 07:35:58 pm
Quote from: Corosar on August 22, 2016, 06:13:20 pm

i am almost at the point of giving up at this rate... no matter what ideas i come up with i always draw the short straw in this patch. GG silentkaster. i gotta figure out what the hell is wrong with me.



Speed advantage is pretty big here. I was able to win thanks to some nice procs and lucky hits at the right time.


I think a lot of people felt similar the first time they entered Arena. My first team had a lot of errors and mistakes that I thought were good at the time and turned out not to be. Looking over your units, they all look decent, but I would say there are some mistakes holding you back. For example, your Bard is 40 faith and has Summon Magic. It's kinda cool to go with an Equip Magegear bard for the book, but why not go full out summoner if you want to go that route? Then you can have the book for free, Magic Attack Up or Short Charge, and definitely 70 faith? You could make a 70/70 unit even with MP switch so when she runs out of MP, she can switch to the book attacks. The mime can't do enough damage with 40 brave, unfortunately even with PA save and when he Mimics the Summon Magic, he does very little.

Also, bahamut is a really tough spell to use because it has nothing besides non elemental damage going for it. I know you love it and it can be used well, but it's evadable, slow and easily mid-charged. I would try looking at different spells in that skill set that might aid you better like Salamander, Silf or others. These are quicker and provide status which gives you more bang for your buck.

Don't give up. We like seeing your ideas and input...very valuable.
45
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 20, 2016, 05:48:03 pm
New copy of Arena out that addresses a few issues. Please download latest copy :)
46
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Season 5 Registration
August 19, 2016, 12:43:20 pm
Count FDQuinn11 and RedWorld in. I'll get 'em to make teams :P
47
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Season 5 Registration
August 16, 2016, 10:59:50 am
Well, I'm submitting a team. And I'm sure you will. If it's only us, we'll be guaranteed at least second place :P
48
FFT Arena / Re: Desperation Facts: What works and what doesn't (for now)
August 16, 2016, 10:55:08 am
Actually, Andrew, you made a good argument for all weapons being affected so I'm okay with it.

Spell Guns would have to sacrifice Magic Attack UP or overwhelm (or some other useful support) in order to get the "maybe" chance that Desperation would work. So I'm okay with it.
49
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Season 5 Registration
August 16, 2016, 10:53:50 am
I might have missed this and apologize if I did, but are the brackets going to be seeded?
50
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
August 12, 2016, 12:56:24 pm
Quote from: Gaignun on August 10, 2016, 10:46:53 pm
And yet Rainbow Staff is no better than Platinum Sword.


The top class on the male side is 10 PA that can use the platinum sword without a support. On the female side who can use Rainbow Staff, it's 11 MA. With the 2H, 2S support or Samurai with Equip Magegear, this weapon can wreak havoc. But I guess the platinum sword could too on a correctly designed unit.

While I see Dancer can use the PS with 12 PA, the 11 (and even 10) MA classes that can use the Rainbow Staff have skills in their primary skillset that can take advantage of added MA and/or movement that might be stacked. The Dancer does not (with the barely notable exceptions of Witch Hunt and Wiznaibus which gets boosted very small amounts comparatively with each stacking number.)

I actually always had an issue with Platinum Sword as it was just a weapon that was kinda "there." I think it at least has a place now on certain units like a support Geomancer or Paladin, but it's still not spectacular in my eyes. (Note that above 10 PA, a 2H Platinum Sword will deal more damage than a 2H Lionheart which I guess is something.)

On a side note, Berserk damage cannot be added to the Platinum Sword unless the unit is Always: Berserk. Rainbow Staff could get stronger with Berserk applied to the fighter in a fight.

Quote from: Gaignun on August 10, 2016, 10:46:53 pm

True, though it does not fare much better on Scholars, as I don't believe Distribute triggers on self-absorption.  Distribute would only work if you have two Scholars casting Lore on each other, at which point we're looking at a pretty niche team.  Still better than nothing.

How about having Scholars and Priests swap flails and poles?  Poles are equally useable as PA weapons, and give Priests extra reach for melee attacks.  Perhaps the +1 Range of Poles could make up for reverting Priests to 3 Move, and Scholars could become the 4 Move mage (if that ever happens).


I would be okay with them swapping rods and flails. That's about it. Again, I'm definitely not okay with Priests giving Flails to Scholars (unless Scholars give up Rods) period. Scholars get nothing from this exchange and Priests just lose something. Even if it were another weapon that priests pick up from Scholars, it would be beneficial only to the Priest and not the Scholar if it's flails that are exchanged.

Quote from: Gaignun on August 10, 2016, 10:46:53 pm
I would say that Monks and Dancers are the only classes that can use the top four skills of Punch Art.  Nevertheless, I wouldn't want to drop Monks' PA without buffing Punch Art, so no worries there.

I disagree. These skills can be built and played with...but I suppose that's really not here or there.
51
FFT Arena / Re: Desperation Facts: What works and what doesn't (for now)
August 12, 2016, 10:44:58 am
My two cents on these weapons and whether Desperation should work on them.

Spell Guns- With the recent WP boost to these guys, I don't like the idea of an unevadable magic shot that can be boosted and faith increased.

Regular Guns- Given that the purpose of these units (Mediators and Chemists) generally don't involve their weapons, I'd be okay with it. Yes, an 8 range double damage shot is pretty potent, but often Chemists will heal themselves instead or this will put Mediators out of range of doing their job. Archers can equip them too, but in many cases, it's better to use other weapons with that class. It's a long shot to build an archer with a Romanda gun with the express intention that he'll go into Critical and become a sniper. While with Stone Gun, the range is shorter so the unit will shoot and then move back most of the time, giving one shot at most assuming the unit doesn't get healed or killed in the downtime.

Blood Sword/Bloody Strings- I'm probably honestly okay with these two as well. The AI, to my knowledge, isn't aware that an absorb weapon will heal them. So you'd only have to worry about this on a Berserker unit, and Bloody Strings doesn't play well with Berserk. Blood Sword does, but Cursed Ring units are obviously a big problem. Also, you're sacrificing a weapon, support and accessory to get the off chance that when you're in critical, it will heal you to close to full? Most of the time, the unit's whacks won't hurt that much. (On a Squire that's all PA with Salty Rage, 135 damage + Berserk damage on a 65/65 unit) so boosting that to double doesn't seem that unreasonable, especially with no way around evasion, but just my thoughts.

Healing weapons- I figure eh, why not. I don't see any reason not to. But could care less either way.
52
FFT Arena / Re: POLL: Don't Act allows evasion + Don't Move allows reacting, disallows evasion
August 10, 2016, 04:06:04 pm
Quote from: Gaignun on August 10, 2016, 03:41:08 pm
Well, Don't Move enabling evasion is just as silly.  Perhaps the attacker gets so excited at the thought of hitting its immobile target that his accuracy degrades in exact proportion to the target's original evasion.

If we want to speed up battles, having Don't Move also disable evasion would be awesome.  This would put some wind in the sails of this beleaguered status ailment.  Should this come to pass, I am willing to comb through the weapons and abilities that add Don't Move in attempt to keep things balanced.


I'm...less against Don't Move having evasion negated, but still kinda meh about it, especially after it has been put on Nameless Dance.

I think Evasion is in a good spot right now. I think evasion can be effective, but there are plenty of ways around it as well with abilities, supports, equips, etc. More than this would be a buff to Don't Move, I think this would be a big nerf to Evasion.
53
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
August 10, 2016, 03:54:19 pm
Quote from: Gaignun on August 10, 2016, 02:30:09 pm

I admit I am a little hasty in saying that the listed weapons are 1HKO weapons.  However, my point was and still is that the weapons are bad on mathematical grounds.  Here are a few simple calculations to support my claim. The plain numbers are maximum damage values; the bold numbers are expectation values.

Black Staff: Br(8*MA) + Fa(11*MA) (20% Cast: Bio 3)
[Br(8)+Fa(11)]*MA (20% Add: Zombie)
[Br(8)+Fa(2.2)]*MA (4% Add: Zombie)

White Staff: Br(10*MA) + 7*MA (20% Cast: Bizen Boat)
[Br(10)+7]*MA
[Br(10)+1.4]*MA

Meteor Rod: Br(8*MA) + Fa(12*MA) (20% Cast: Meteor)
[Br(8)+Fa(12)]*MA
[Br(8)+Fa(2.4)]*MA

Read the numbers like this: The average WP for Black Staff is 10.2, and you need to invest in Brave to get 8 of that and Faith to get the other 2.2.

At 20% chance, the three weapons go super-Holy (i.e., >16*MA), but on average they are all weaker than Rainbow Staff (Br(12)*MA), and that's assuming the staff user has matching Brave and Fury. (e.g., a Rainbow Staff at 70 Brave must be compared to a White Staff at 70 Brave and 70 Faith.)

Now you'd be fair to ask how the above weapons compare at 40 Brave and 70 Faith.  This is the most disadvantageous comparison for Rainbow Staff. Let's plug the numbers right in. If we substitute 0.75 for Br and 1.05 for Fa, we get

Black Staff:
17.6*MA
8.3*MA

White Staff:
14.5*MA
8.9*MA

Meteor Rod:
18.6*MA
8.5*MA

Meanwhile, Rainbow staff is 9*MA.  Rainbow Staff still wins.  Of course, all values are equally bad.  At 9*MA, you might as well use a Paladin with a 17 WP Chaos Blade. That beast has 17.9*PA at 70 Brave, and a killer proc that works 100% of the time.

Thus, I conclude that the above weapons are weak on average, and only have the power to put the enemy under pressure when their spells are auto-cast.  They are Hail Mary weapons that let you down 80% of the time, like the Death spell.

Now let's look at the elemental rods. Those are good weapon if I do say so myself.

Fire Rod = Br(10*MA) + UnBr(7*MA) (50% Cast: Nether Fire)
[13.7 + Br(3)]*MA
[8.6 + Br(3)]*MA
Ice Rod = Br(9*MA) + UnBr(8*MA) (50% Cast: Nether Ice)
[14.8 + Br(1)]*MA
[9.0 + Br(1)]*MA
Thunder Rod = Br(8*MA) + UnBr(9*MA) (50% Cast: Nether Bolt)
[15.9 - Br(1)]*MA
[9.3 - Br(1)]*MA

The expectation values of the elemental rods are similar to the first three; neither comes close to rivaling Rainbow Staff; in that respect the elemental rods are equally lousy.  But, each of these rods hits nearly as hard as Holy when their spells auto-cast. In other words, these weapons let you down only 50% of the time.

(Incidentally, we have just proved here that, of the elemental rods, Fire Rod is the strongest and Thunder Rod is the weakest when both their spells autocast and on average, at any Brave.)

I think that Death is too inaccurate to cringe over, but your point is fair.  Yin Yang Magic is already all over the meta, and if this change would make that worse, then let's give Death to a less popular job (that has reason to use it).

Then we could swap Critical Quick with Distribute at the same time. Balance would also works on Lancer provided we overhaul its skill set.  The important thing is that Balance needs to be on a job with a high HP pool.

Transferring Flails to Scholars on grounds that Scholars can use them better than Priests is precisely my point.  It is true that Prismatic Rod is better than the Flails, as well.  I'm just trying to find a good home for Flails.

As for Priests having 4 Move to use flails better, my argument that Priests shouldn't put themselves into the thick of battle (to use flails or otherwise) still stands.  Giving Priests +1 Move to use flails better is like giving Wizards +1 Move to use daggers better.  If somebody is intent on using flails for offense, they'll make a Ninja.  Ninja also have 4 Move and are equally squishy, but can equip twice as many flails at a time.  If we want single-handed flails to compete with Ninja, then I think we should provide a better incentive than giving the job extra MP to juggle physical offense with White Magic support.  I am not saying brandishing a flail while supporting with White Magic isn't impossible; rather, there must be a better way to go about this without jeapordising Priests' primary role.  Giving Priests Move -1 as suggested elsewhere is OK, even though it would kill the Movement slot options of support Priests.

Honest, innocent question: What are 13 PA Monks without access to anything but Bags good for in the metagame?


With the computer I'm on when I write from work, the formatting tools don't work so they all have to be typed manually and/or copy pasted so I'll just respond to your points on a numbered system.

1. I think your arguments more pointed out, at least to me, that the Rainbow Staff is a bit overpowered more than I see the other staffs underpowered. To be honest, I'm not even convinced of that as I think the "proc" weapons are a bit of a gamble and I'm okay with that. The Rainbow Staff is more consistent, but may not have the potential to one shot whereas these weapons will not either most of the time but when you do get lucky, you get very lucky. A rainbow staff whack may never one shot someone whereas a Meteor Rod whack will usually not, but at least has the opportunity to do so. (Note that I'm not mentioning critical hits as I wrote the word "never" because both weapons would have equal ability to do so which should negate one weapon's advantage over the other in this, crit shot only, comparison.) Thinking more about the elemental rods, it actually kind of saddens me since they proc Nether spells. These prevent the weapon being utilized effectively since in order to proc, you'd want low brave, but for the whack damage, you want higher brave. I have to think about that a bit more as they don't go well with each other.

2. Distribute is almost useless on TM I'm afraid which would why I'd be against swapping it. The scholar, due to the Lore spells and the popularity with absorb, is probably the right home for distribute (perhaps Wizard too.) I actually really like Lancer getting it (again, I think I'm in the minority) though, but still like Time Magic having it as well. I know they can't use it the best, but it also doesn't have to be a OHKO for it to be effective. A 200-300 HP hit is still pretty noticeable, and with their higher speed, they can still make decent use of it (as skills that hit one panel generally need higher speed to be more effective.) IDK, this just might be a point we have to disagree on but see what other people have to say.

3. Well, I don't think Scholars get any use out of them was my point...I'd put them on TM before Scholar (and to be clear I wouldn't put them on TM either and I'm not suggesting that) because the Scholar has two pieces of equipment (Rods) that they can equip which means they never have use for any of the flails. I understand your point with the priest, but not all people need to build a team like that. For example, a SCC team with all priests might make use of them, or someone who wants a Melee unit, but also needs to have Supportive type stuff. Is it ideal? Maybe not, but it's there. You might argue that Priests have the Rainbow staff which is arguably better, but that might require MA stacking and if they want to equip things like the Green Beret or speed to make the priest able to get in the action easier, then the flails gain a bit more action.

I'm not totally against them losing Flails since they did gain books, but eh, would want something to replace them, and preferably a non MA weapon.

4. A lot. But it depends on the unit. Monks are probably the best at using their own skill set, tied only with Dancer in terms of being able to PA stack. But it becomes arguable when you look at other skills. For example, any of the Cross skills require Equip X which means they must now build for that in addition to losing Attack UP or Concentrate (with the barely notable exception that they want to bag Southern Cross). The tons, while they can couple with Attack Up or Concentrate, now sacrifice W-EV and S-EV and it might be more apt on a Squire, as well as having to choose between 108 Gems to strengthen or some other, more relevant, Accessory. (I won't go over all the different PA skill sets and such, but I think you get where I'm going.)

Also, Monks are already kinda meh on their skillset without Martial Arts as it renders all but Stigma Magic, Revive and Secret Fist (and I think it affects them too but on a much more miniscule scale) from their native skillset very weakened. This sacrifices a support slot to use their own skillset. Even with Attack UP, it just can't produce the same results MA can.
54
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 09, 2016, 10:09:55 pm
Please check download thread for latest patch. Thanks guys.
55
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
August 09, 2016, 11:32:15 am
Responses to Gaignun:

Renaming section- I'm fine with 3-10. Only reason I wouldn't want to change 1-2 is because they do mainly what they did in Vanilla (Oil makes you weak to all elements instead of just fire, but the transition and the name makes it pretty easy to bridge the gap) and I think changing them might confuse newer players who have played through Vanilla. I'm more for not changing things where they don't need to be changed. While Bizen Boat and Ramia Harp are also from Vanilla, their purposes have changed so I'm okay with changing them since they do something much different than they did previously.

Equipment-
5. Chakra Band- Yes, it is still used actually. Eight speed monks are still viable and the only ones able to equip them are Monks and Mimes. I see this going on a more defensive Monk, like a dancer, or a more offensive Monk like a Grand Crosser with Equip X. Since Mimes can equip shields, it can also go on a Mime without too much penalty and it still provides plenty of Status Protection. It's still a good choice, but not the obvious choice like it was in 1.39.

6. Only thing that I can agree with you on is Muramasa being a one hit "death" and it's only equippable by a class that has 3 move and not much ability to improve upon said move. Black Staff's Bio 3 I've always thought was meh, but it can be attractive I guess, especially if it procs Undead. But other than that, these weapons serve purposes. For example, Silver Bow is probably one of the bows that a Samurai could arguably be better with than the Archer and requires 70/70 to be used potentially well. Meteor Rod encourages 2S mages which also might need to be 70/70 and having just one is not a 1HKO.

So...IDK. Increasing proc chances could be alright, but I'd like to see them in action a bit more as they are and see if people avoid or want to select them.

Skills-
4. Death- Would probably be okay with it being on Scholar, but not Oracle. I could see the new White Magic, Short Charge, Death Oracles running around and it makes me cringe.

8. Balance- Not a fan of it going to Scholar, and I don't mind it remaining where it is as Time Magic is a good place for it, especially with Crit Quick remaining as a reaction in Time Magic. However, would be okay with it going to Oracle or (dare I say it?) Lancer as an ability besides Jump. (I expect nobody agrees with me here, but let's face it, you can't argue that the "Jump" skillset is the least diversified of every skill set.)

Jobs-
1/2. What makes a Priest so attractive is the skillset, not the job itself. So if using a priest, I think that most people would be using it because they can get White Magic and decent MA. I don't mind them being four move, though I don't mind them being three move, either. However, I totally disagree on the Flails being transferred to Scholar (and while you didn't say that outright, you suggested it by using moves from their skillset). They can equip the Prismatic Rod and Poison Rod, both of which well outshine their respective flails and cover more ground. It's true that Priests don't get a lot of use out of them, but I guess it is there so that you can have a melee priest without having to buff PA too much. The four move at the moment complements this and I'm sure we'll see at least a couple people make priests like this.

3. Cannot agree here, either. Monks are great PA attackers but their equipment is limited. They can't equip a real weapon (bags which means if the AI derps and goes for a bag whack, and we've all seen it happen more than once, you might be losing a turn), they can't equip anything but bands and clothes (where real choices have to be made now) and because of these, it's a fine balance now making a monk. I would be more for lowering their base HP before touching their PA because while they are a good choice, and arguably the best choice, for many PA builds, they're simply not versatile enough to lower their PA in my opinion.
56
FFT Arena / FFT Arena Balance Discussion Thread
August 08, 2016, 03:57:10 pm
I'm getting a sticky on this post.

If you have ideas and/or see areas where balance could be improved or altered in a positive way, feel free to post here. It would be better if you...

1. Say what the issue is
2. Explain the issue in as much detail as possible without overdoing it
3. Explain why it needs to be changed
4. Give possible solutions or changes that could help.

You don't have to format it, but just answer those four statements. Counterarguments can also be posted here.
57
FFT Arena / Re: FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread
August 08, 2016, 03:36:07 pm
Bumping this thread up. Several balance ideas are coming up in discord based on battles, matches, etc and it's much easier when they're in a thread so we can permanently link. Discord is better for discussing live stuff or making decisions/gathering votes, so if we can get people posting in here with ideas and such again, it would be great for everything.
58
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 02, 2016, 07:02:16 pm
Quote from: Andrew on August 02, 2016, 06:16:12 pm
Defense-piercing skills such as the nether spells (counters low-Brave) and tons (counters low-Faith) should always be weaker due to their design (example: compare Bolt to Nether Bolt).  While tons require specific setups (during battle, even, with the likes of buffing with Innocent and/or putting the targets to sleep) to be able to one-hit low-Faith units, Dark Holy could one-hit low-Brave units with simply having decent MA.  Nether Bolt is only MAx9, and it has proven destructive towards low-Brave units, while Dark Holy was MAx16, which is MUCH higher.  Thus, MAx14 is still very potent for an UnBrave skill, and it's still justified due to Dark Holy's single-target nature, 5 CT, and high MP cost.


Sorry, then I must also point this out if that's the case.

I'm going to argue several main points.

1. We have already buffed having low brave by introducing Lay on Hands...a res skill on a popular skillset. So this is kind of a big deal. While you can say we counter balanced with Dark Holy, we put the Unbrave res skill on a skillset that previously had no res skill. We put Dark Holy (AKA "Nether Holy" so it can be compared to other Nether skills) on the same skillset that has the other un-brave attack skills.

2. You used tons to make your point with innocent, but there are no innocent or faith status that can manipulate brave. It can only be manipulated with MA and strengthening. Tons have the advantage of status and while they are weaker, they're all instant. That in itself is pretty huge, especially when you have an AI running around that might use Dark Holy to one shot instead of using a better AOE skill to damage multiple people. (Since the Ninja doesn't have AOE skills besides Houkouton which is a different range and type of attack altogether, this also is a minor point in my favor.)

3. The Nether spells have AOE which Dark Holy does not.

4. This might encourage mid-brave builds. We see so many 40 brave units like mages and Chemists running around and part of your argument is that they're getting punished. Well, sorry. That's how it should be. They should have something to worry about too and it's all on one skill set. Absorb Dark, wear reflect ring or raise your brave and you're covered against this threat. (Of course, you open yourself up to others but what kind of build doesn't?)

5. There are other ways to nerf the spell than lower its MA like have it cost more MP or raise its CT (in which case I'd also argue to raise Holy's CT since it has the potential, and does, one shot 70 faith units and some even lower faith.)

I kinda look at this like I do old Ultima now. It's probably not going to be worth the one shot and it's less useful than flare now in my opinion.

(Note: Any more replies in this thread on this topic I will be moving to a new topic or the Balance discussion thread along with what is already existing.)

As an aside, we really need to make sure we let people on the forum know and give at least 48 hour notice so that people can be present at the discussions. We can't assume "there are enough people in discord" and just do it as messages get lost or are too far to scroll up. I almost protested the changes since I strongly disagree with a couple of them, this being one of them but let it go this time.
59
FFT Arena / Re: Arena battle videos and discussion
August 02, 2016, 05:24:22 pm
Quote from: Malroth on August 02, 2016, 04:52:07 pm
Dark holy got Nerfed?  why? it was already weaker than flare or holy by every possible metric.


Kind of in the same boat as you on that one, but wasn't around to discuss this (I actually was out this whole weekend and didn't really know changes were being discussed.)

I liked it paralleling holy.
60
FFT Arena / Re: Official names for MP poison and regen
August 02, 2016, 01:00:12 pm
Quote from: Otabo on August 02, 2016, 12:15:05 pm
Hex sounds good to me, as does Refresh.


A wild Otabo has appeared!

*Throws a pokeball at him.*

Oh...wait...I guess I should post something relevant to the topic.

I don't mind hex so much, but I'm not feeling refresh.

My initial thoughts were curse and blessing (which can now be referred to in game as cursed and blessed) to keep in line with the FFT storyline of St. Ajora and all.
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