Richard Dawkins New Evolution Book

[Archael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-QWv_0Mjq0

[Mental_Gear]

Wow, thanks for dumping your opinion on us. *yawn*

[Xifanie]

Why is this in spam?

[Archael]

Wow, thanks for dumping your opinion on us. *yawn*

what opinion? it's a fact, his new book is out

I haven't said anything about it or given my opinion on anything anywhere on this thread

[Mental_Gear]

Meh, I just don't think that many of us are really that bothered.

[Archael]

Meh, I just don't think that many of us are really that bothered.

then why did you post?

[Dormin Jake]

Coolio.  Only thing is, I think the audience he's trying to reach, the ones that have never seen the evidence for evolution, will never ever buy the book because Dawkins has always been seen as an enemy to religion, his word warned against by religious believers (admittedly this is right on.  The question is whether or not this is actually a problem).

Those that would buy the book are those that are already rational enough to see the evidence of evolution by taking a look out of the window.  He's preaching to the choir, as funny as that sounds.  The problem is that although he's ostensibly trying to reach out to an audience that has so far been close-minded about the world in which they live, an audience that could use a harmless little eye opening, his style and erudition have always been off-putting to his detractors.

As much as I agree with the scope of the book and would probably want to high-five Dawkins after reading it, this won't kick off any open discussion with creationists, and it won't change anything.  It's just another piece of scientific literature for intellectuals to feel smug about and fundamentalists to dismiss as satanist liberal indoctrination.

[Dormin Jake]

I'm totally feeling smug, by the by.


la la la

[Archael]

Why would you feel smug? Everything you said is true, but just because there exist groups of people that cover their ears and go la la la doesn't mean books like this aren't important or without impact. The more you educate everyone the more ridiculous the people who refuse to listen to evidence seem, and I think that's probably one of RD's goals.

[beawulfx]

I was going to say 'I think he is only preaching to the converted' as well and sum up Jake's entire post, but then I thought so what, because there is no harm in getting more information out there and more pieces of evidence. It may not help much, maybe not at all, but it certainly doesn't hurt in the fight to educate those misinformed on the subject (not that I'm anti-religion but I do think denying evolution is taking it too far)

[DarthPaul]

I want a copy of this for my collection. Evolution is one of the simplest concepts in modern science yet people around me refuse to see it. This would be very nice as a reference and guide for any attempt to paddle into the turbulent water of intellectual conversation with those who refuse to see logic. God isn't a blindfold to hide behind, even if he exists it is still worth knowing what evidence has to say.

Thanks for posting this.

[Archael]

Yeah, I feel like many people (myself included) don't fully understand the specifics behind evolution, natural selection, and the evidence behind it

[DarthPaul]

If you want to understand it better this book should spread some light. Also Anatomy and Physiology in any local college would do extremely well in shedding light onto the mechanics. Most of it though is environmental and social effects on DNA/RNA.

[Dormin Jake]

Well put.  I'm just angsty that evolution needs to be explained to adults.  This should have been something all of us were taught in grade school, when it wasn't.  I'm just sick of how silly everything is these days.  

The people who have been covering their ears and saying la la la have been doing so for a long time, and they are getting worse, and worse, and worse.  I'm annoyed that this book is even needed in the first place.

Like I said though, I probably will get this, and thanks for the heads up as to its release.

[Archael]

Yeah, it has gotten to be ridiculous.

[bisekibungaku]

I actually don't believe in evolution. Dawkins talks about how much proof there is for evolution eg. how the animals "evolve" so much within centuries and that they could do many more things in 10^7 years. However, although natural selection does happen, it adds nothing to the gene pool. Finches are always finches, no one has ever observed any actual gene change. Also, the second law of thermodynamics says that reactions tend toward a lower energy state. If the universe is arbitrarily old, how is it possible for there be any order in the universe. As time increases, the probability of evolution does not increase, it decreases.

You need a lot more faith to believe that a collision created life than just believing in God. People just accept evolution because a whole bunch of "smart" people tell them that it's true. Humans naturally just do not like to be accountable to any higher being.
If Darwin knew what we know now, he would not have thought that species evolved.

[DarthPaul]

I actually don't believe in evolution. Dawkins talks about how much proof there is for evolution eg. how the animals "evolve" so much within centuries and that they could do many more things in 10^7 years. However, although natural selection does happen, it adds nothing to the gene pool. Finches are always finches, no one has ever observed any actual gene change. Also, the second law of thermodynamics says that reactions tend toward a lower energy state. If the universe is arbitrarily old, how is it possible for there be any order in the universe. As time increases, the probability of evolution does not increase, it decreases.

You need a lot more faith to believe that a collision created life than just believing in St. Ajora. People just accept evolution because a whole bunch of "smart" people tell them that it's true. Humans naturally just do not like to be accountable to any higher being.
If Darwin knew what we know now, he would not have thought that species evolved.

I don't believe it because people say it happens. I have been over the evidence, the observations and correlations  of fossil evidence compared to modern animals. Little doubt is left after looking over everything.

[bisekibungaku]

In what way does the fossil record confirm evolution? If, like the Bible says, there was a world-wide flood, then that would explain the fossils as well as many other things (Grand Canyon etc.) From only a few bones and bone fragments, it is impossible to say "This is definitely from X which has Y characteristics." Additionally, the hoaxes put on by some people discredits them.
Just because there is a progression does not mean that they evolved either.

[Archael]

However, although natural selection does happen, it adds nothing to the gene pool.

This is wrong

Evolution has been shown to add brand new information to an organism's gene pool, information that simply did not exist before. This results in an alteration of the organism's genes from generation to generation, until the end result is an entirely new organism.

Ever heard of Nylonase?

You need a lot more faith to believe that a collision created life than just believing in St. Ajora

Evolution does not equal Big Bang which does not equal Abiogenesis. Evolution doesn't try to explain the origin of matter or energy. It explains the process by which the genetic material in a population of organisms changes from generation to generation.

It has nothing to do with the origin of life or the big bang theory.

People don't believe in evolution because of faith, evolution is not a religion, it's a scientific theory. a theory is a possible explanation of how many different facts come together

this involves evidence, which is more than I can say for the belief in god

If the universe is arbitrarily old, how is it possible for there be any order in the universe.

there isn't

you perceive order, you have evolved to percieve patterns and order, like all human beings, recognition of patterns helps us survive

but things aren't the way they are because of order, a great deal of chaos abounds in this universe, the fact that life happened to spring up on this planet does not indicate order

As time increases, the probability of evolution does not increase, it decreases.

This one I just don't understand. Are you trying to say that for life to turn out the way it did it is very improbable? Is that the argument? Because improbability does not imply design. And the appearance of design does not imply a designer, either.

[bisekibungaku]

However, although natural selection does happen, it adds nothing to the gene pool.

This is wrong

Evolution has been shown to add brand new information to an organism's gene pool, information that simply did not exist before. This results in a brand new organism.

Ever heard of Nylonase?

The DNA mutated but that did not bring about positive mutation because in a normal environment, the nylonase would die. Also, no actual new species was formed.

You need a lot more faith to believe that a collision created life than just believing in St. Ajora

Evolution does not equal Big Bang which does not equal Abiogenesis

You're confusing your theories here

people don't believe in evolution because of faith, evolution is not a religion, it's a scientific theory. a theory is a possible explanation of how many different facts come together

this involves evidence, which is more than I can say for the belief in St. Ajora

OK, sorry I did confuse theories. It's not completely unrelated though.
Also, there is more evidence for the existence of God than for evolution. Especially considering that all of the evidence for Evolution is a double-edged sword. Just because it is a religion does not make it a non-valid theory.

If the universe is arbitrarily old, how is it possible for there be any order in the universe.

there isn't

you perceive order, you have evolved to percieve patterns and order, like all human beings, recognition of patterns helps us survive

but things aren't the way they are because of order, a great deal of chaos abounds in this universe, the fact that life happened to spring up on this planet does not indicate order

By order, I mean energy.

As time increases, the probability of evolution does not increase, it decreases.

This one I just don't understand. Are you trying to say that for life to turn out the way it did it is very improbable? Is that the argument? Because improbability does not imply design. And the appearance of design does not imply a designer, either.

It is improbable. Firstly, the complexity of life alone makes evolution an impossibility. Secondly, if the animal/organism really needed the feature to survive, in the time required for evolution, the organism would be dead.