In lieu of requests to alter my almost-submission... (Which is a very good thing!)
In wanting to re-imagine characters in different lights, I chose Meliadoul as my first task. I gave her (what I felt) was a more pleasing green cloak, and subsequently had to alter her gauntlet palette colours due to her hair. I also had to remove her grayish undergarment to trim down the palette. This led to me pasting over the male Archer's boots, which might not have been the best choice in retrospection, as there are better "metallic" boots to copy over.
Attached here is my progress at this point. I warmly welcome any suggestion, so please, suggest away! :)
- It has been already suggested that I restore the cloak's original colour. (Both hooded and 'hair' versions)
- Should I reduce the hair's saturation?
Yes the hair is too saturated. I'm not a big fan of the new green either. The hair itself needs a bit of work. This is looking like a good start though.
Definitely reduce the hair's saturation. I love where you're going with the design there.
Thanks for posting here for refinement Tojoe.
Reds in fft are pretty bright as are some of the blues but this bloody red is a little odd and the portraits are always less saturated than the sprite. I think the boots are fine with this design but could be lightened a little because they are almost completely obfuscated in the front facing view. I can barely see them; at least on black. Otherwise, the only thing is, make the yellow more greenish on the sprite to match the portrait. Or vice-versa, make the portrait more yellowish.
I like where you are going with this too! I believe there should have been more female sprites with longer hair, it is very pretty :p.
I think the red and green do not flow well together. If you like the red hair maybe you can go with a darker outfit.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention: there is one stray pixel on the 2nd portrait.. right across from her right eye on the outside of her hair. Yeah I agree Dino, girls with nice long hair ftw.
Note taken, Lijj.
But what of the colour of the gauntlets and boots themselves? Currently, with the reverted palette, I have three open palette spots. Three isn't quite enough for her hair, which requires four.
I am kind of stuck. If I restore the gauntlets original golden colour, the hair wont be as nice due to there being only 3 open spots.
It is so frustrating trying to get palettes working correctly between GraphicsGale and Shishi. To add to it, I noticed the tutorial was missing a few minor details that may help... However I am at a loss how to explain them accurately and if I am even doing it correctly.
More will be done another day when my patience isn't quite so thin this late at night. Perhaps even an entirely fresh start with the palette optimized from the start and new boots?
Here, though, I have something working for her unhooded sprite. Anything noticeably off?
Edit--Even now, I see errors in this attachment. Ignoring those, how is the hair now? I used the reds from Altima's first form.
I feel like the hair in the portrait parts kind of awkwardly. It sort of makes her forehead look a little off. Unsure of what change is exactly necessary however.
Yeah the forehead is maybe 1-2 px too high at the peak. Here is a quick edit of the frames (there were some holes in some parts that on a light background in-game would have been odd) and some palette possibilities. I thought the white buttons on her back were too bright when the hair swings close so I changed it to gold. Keep it up the frames look good the fighting frames hair needs just a little touching up... I didn't want to get to crazy on those.
(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/meliadoul2a.bmp)(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/meliadoul2b.bmp) I actually like the idea of the yellow cloak.
Keep up the good work; looks like finishing it should be easy from here on.
(look forward to the next remakes)
This is cool.
But isn't her hair is short,or i just need to stop looking at fanart? :?
I actually had not looked at any fan-art, didn't think to bother. It just hit me one day that there were no characters with red hair, and I thought "Well, I've liked Melaidoul as a character, but didn't like how she was always hooded."
After seeing Zozma's Lush sprite hair, Meliadoul became quite beautiful, if not stunning. Fitting for the daughter of one who plays such a prominent role in the story. To boot, Isilude's hair is brown, so it is easy to picture their mother being a red-head herself. That's all my opinions, anyway.
Is it wrong to think of the Japanese McDonald's commercial when I look the version with her golden cloak? Hehe, funniness aside, I'm not sure how I'm liking that variant.
:mrgreen: Very neat sprite, Tojoe. Love the base green and golds with the Altima reds. I do agree with Pierce that her forehead looks slightly off, however. My biggest problem is the shading created from her hair on her face. Something about it looks weird. Also, not a fan of the yellow version.
EDIT: Two more things:
1. Looking forward to the Rafa sprite!
2. You should post just the portrait (enlarged) so we can see it better.
Are you referring to her portrait, Durbs? I'll have to edit that...
Right now I am trying to alter her skin tone a little (remembering to keep colours divisible by 8) to be a little more pink to compliment her hair and perhaps share skin and hair tones later on. So far, so good. And hopefully updating soon.
Attached is her current messy portrait, enlarged to show detail--just like cereal, mmm.
Oh, and this particular portrait was from when I gave her a small smile.. But in most of the versions I posted above, this isn't present. I think I know what you are talking about now, Durbs. :)
Yeah, I did mean the portrait. Sorry if I was unclear about that.
I think the biggest problem for me is at the upper left of her head (where you could trace your finger from the grey to the peach without touching reds; I apologize again if I'm unclear). You should lower the hairline there slightly, but only there; leave the right side of her hairline and the rest of her hair as-is.
(re)Presenting the Lady Meliadoul... with restored palette, less saturated hair, fixed portrait (I think) among other things.. Oh and new.. slightly ugly.. (female squire) boots. What do you guys think?
I am a little tired of looking at her for now, to be honest, so if the white "button" (as it were) is still bothering anyone, feel free to modify? I will revisit this again, as I have further plans for Meliadoul, even an all new garb for her to wear, if I get around to it.
And is it me, or is the portrait once again .. too saturated? I don't think I copied over the correct one.. Oops. Fixed
Ewwie wowzer, those boots are hideous. I'll be reverting to the archer boots when I get the next chance--I owe everyone that much, hehe.
Taken down until fixed, I apologize. Sorry, Lijj, I wasn't quite thinking.
This won't look so good in game due to the holes.. I patched them for a reason. And the hair again has a green outline which isn't good since that is the exact opposite of red... I'd recommend using the green one I posted; I fixed all the minute errors and now they're all back.
In the version I posted all the animation errors in the walking/ singing/ casting frames were fixed.
Do you use shi shi r4 so you can check the frames and use instant refresh (control R)?
Where'd the casting frame's face go?
Also now the hooded version has green dots where they should be off-white/white.
Now I seem like a pest but I like this sprite and want it to be nice in game.
The pixel wrastling is what gets me in the end. I'm.. not sure which version of Shishi I am using, but I downloaded it from the 'Downloads' section on the main page with the bundle of other editors. I assume it isn't the latest, as I see nothing along the lines of this supposed "zooming" I see mentioned here and there. (I just use Windows Magnifier anyway.)
I removed most of the casting face frame, because all it adds is an open mouth over an existing frame, so its presence isn't too important? Taking some shortcuts here and there can lead to sloppy work. :oops:
I am glad that you like it, though. :D I'll be taking another stab at it tomorrow.
The only thing special about this one is R999 and, I think, FormerDeathCorps made it so you can instantly refresh in shishi's after saving in Graphics Gale or whatever. Grab it here: http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5084.0 (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5084.0)
No more re up-loading the bmp then going back to the frame; just save, go into shishi and hit control r.
It sped me up about 4x and even Twinees, the master spriter, uses it because it really is great. :o
Also included there is a better zoom tool that R999 discovered. I use it even with some games to get things pixel perfect though it only has a maximum refresh rate of 30 frames a sec. (slower paced games only)
My first sprite about 8-9 months ago was horrid (I didn't even know how pixels worked)and was rejected completely so I think you're golden... keep it up. These tools will help.
EDIT:
Actually I just realized I've been here for a year!! What a low-life I am! :P
Once you get through this your next pair will be cake.
Hmm.... this looks nice might I suggest trying a silverish gray for the armor pieces? It would clash a bit less when underneath that green. If you use the yellow I would go with a dark armor undertone. You need to make the cloak 'pop' without overstimulating the eyes...
Right now when I look at the sprite on my high res monitor the colors distract me way too much from the head, which you did great on! If you want I can take a crack at making a palette for this once I get home :) I am pretty good at paletting I think ask lijj and twin ^^;
I have thought about changing the metallic colours a number of times, and I even did in my initial version. I really really enjoyed the bronze-ish colours I made, even if it wasn't in multiples of 8. But I continue to think back on how her father/brother/others all have the same golden armors. Its just out of place?
I would love to see your take, Mando! I've even tried going as far as I could while leaving her gray under-garment in place, and it just wont fit into the palette. However, if the gauntlets/boots are also silvered/grayed in the same way, its definitely possible. (I almost continued with it at one point but stopped again due to the gold theme she shares with others)
Your right about the other's looking similar but.... think about it this way, Meliadoul joins you and they don't making her a different person than the others, which a change in armor color could display ;D I'll try and make a palette right now.
Here you go, I decided against pure silver looking armor pieces. I altered the green color slightly. The armor pieces are less golden looking but still look nice along with the green.
And for the record. Please erase the damn smile. It not only looks unnatural in FFT, but it also makes Meliadoul look like she isn't Meliadoul anymore.
That meliadoul happy that she joined your group kage!
Also, weird shading all over the portrait. Would you mind if I fixed it up a bit? Tomorrow of course, since I am going for today.
Hey, did you change the format of the pictures / did you take them down? My computer can't see them (there's not even the empty box that appears when it doesn't load).
Must be your pc, they are all bmp and I can see them fine
Huh... Mando, I can see your most recent bmp just fine. Wierd. Anyways, those colors seem too dark for FFT. Compared to her base sprite, this palette is shaded much more deeply. I personally like her original colors the best (brighter greens + gold armor), the primary change to it being the red hair.
Mando, can you use the base green for the cloak + a lighter silver color for the armor? I'd like to see how that works. The shading as it is is unusual, as Kagebunji says.
Sure. I'll upload in one second. Colors appear better on my screen because of the resolution and monitor I have... I also don't follow the stupid FFT color rule because a special, or any generic in fact, should not be limited to types of coloring. Sure its nice to follow the rule of thumb and try and match colors. However, everyone's display is different what appears crappy on your screen/emulator may appear amazingly in mine.
I went ahead and made multiple colors so people could see differences. The first one has a more silver/metal armor look. The 2nd green that appears uses the armor look I think looks nice with a small alteration in the green. The rest is obvious...
Also do not use the previous palettes .bmp uploaded... I am not sure what tojoe is using to edit them but something is messing up and when they are pulled into the palette editor wierd stuff is happening some rows have this grey/brown color instead of being black/null. This can be seen in this upload because the portrait did a wtf?
Yes. Epic win. :mrgreen: It looks awesome.
I agree, that does look nice, Mando :) I may even say she looks better with the brown hair.
As for editing, I use GIMP. Other than that, I think I'm following the steps correctly...
I use Graphics Gale for everything, and GIMP to do gifs, that is all I think. Brown hair is definitly a great choice, her brother had brown hair too, so it would be nice. Plus green and silver combo looks great.
Red-headed portrait is still too saturated.
On my above post Toejoe, those palettes are just various examples. They aren't a real full generic palette.
I somewhat take back what I mentioned about not using FFT colors. They are great colors and extremely useful for beginners to make colors match and flow effectively. Also by all means advice from Twin, Lijj, Kage, and Mav should take some precedence over mine. I have not made a full custom sprite myself yet, though if I had time I probably could make one. I only edit sprites/colors and ect....
here's an edit of the portrait for the silver and green one:(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/1696/mellx.png)(bmp):(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/meliadoulport.bmp)
fixed her hair and armor...no credit needed.
It's good to follow at least the color schemes for palettes even with specials but will meliadoul need more than 1?
if you do palette it remember that set 1 is mostly blue, set 2 are mostly blue-green, set3 are mostly green and brown, set 4 are mostly reddish orange and set 5 is mostly pinkish red- purple or black (dark grey)
Nice stuff Lijj, perhaps a softer approach would suit Meliadoul better however?
Still needs a hair highlight and what not.
(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/meliadoulport.bmp)
The shape you did for the hair looks way better Twinees. I went ahead and made it into a bmp with the highlight re added.
Heres a little update on yours lijj.
Edit: Actually, maybe some anti-analiasing can be done next to her hair strand that goes over her right shoulder so it blends with the background smoother.
I added a tiny bit of AA to the bottom strand.. just a touch, because, anymore just looked out of FFT style's range; added a little shadow on her left shoulder area and deleted the stray pixel by her right eye and changed a shade or two elsewhere.
(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/meliadoulport.bmp)
Looks awesome. Though whatever you say, I highly advise using original eyes for her. These seem rather small, and her right eye is missing some darker, heavier pixels(at least on the last bigger port posted, I can't see on those small, updated ones, heh).
I think the right eye should be a few pixel to the left, It looks too far from the other. Also the shoulder looks kinda weird maybe is the shadow from the hair but is a good work so far.
Wow, good job with the portrait.
great job on the portrait, so much more fft like
Hey, can someone post the green/silver version with the new portrait up? Personally, I think it's ready for submission. :D
the portrait reminds me of Donna Pinciotti off "that 70's show lol
Rofl, if you don't say that I'll never realize.
Wow, I never imagined it would go this far--I mean, its great! Now, I just have to hop back on the sprite wagon.
Alright you're back! I was concerned we scared you away. Twinees really did some magic with that hair but we seem to work well together.
Yes, yes it is great, but I have few notes after looking closer. Skin color is totally different from original Meliadoul(more pale, kinda pinky on some shades), please change it back, if it is not a problem(or at least made some values same as original). Also, please change the eyes! These are small and looks somehow far away from each other, original had better eyes. Also, her right shoulder, it ends on the portrait, and it makes it really small, the shoulder should be extended by two or three pixels, and it would look back on track. If you do these three things, this will be a great Meliadoul portrait, and I would surely use it over the original one :)
Ok Kagebunji I put her eyes on there without messing around this time: (http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/Lijj2/meliadoulseyes.png) [bmp]:(http://lijj.ffhacktics.com/Lijj2/meliadoulport.bmp)
It's so Donna ;D
<3 it liji
wai beter, lovve it.
now someone just need to update the event animations meliadoul is involved with so the sprite wont look horrible storyline wise XD
Good work, guys, but you might want the part on her hair to be less centered, since her face is at an angle. Move the left part of her hair (our right) even more to the left. Then it'll be set.
I'm thoroughly impressed by this portrait though, it's seriously amazing.
that portrait is beautiful. I'm amazed at how well this one turned out. I think id actually use mel now lol. tho to be honest, I always thought i needed to touch up that hair a bit
Here, here. Damned fine work, crew. If someone does the EVTCHRs with Meliadoul in them I'll gladly put this sprite into CCP.
Is Mando's "meliadoul2a (1).bmp" the agreeable final sprite? (Minus the portrait pictured on it, of course.)
And then the portrait is mostly complete, aside from a few other detail suggestions?
Is it particularly difficult to edit the event version? Me, being naive, thought it would borrow from the battle sprite in some way. :oops:
Yeah that's the one I based the armor in the portrait off of: Meliadoul2a.
I see what Mav is saying about the part but feel if it were moved the curve on the front bang would have to be redone more curving outward (to our left)too which would look awkward at least if I do it based on what I perceive. So maybe Twinees later can touch it up if he feels it is a good thing to do. Or has a better picture in his mind.
Could you kill the rest of that palette on 2a before submitting?.. unless you want to make a more diverse palette of 5 color schemes. (she's not a generic so no need for more than one)
I haven't done an Evtchr edit before but it just consists of special frames not found on the sprite sheet. There is a tutorial I will get to eventually
slight update on portrait and original sprite for reference.
Thanks for reference, Twin. Now I can finish the EVTCHR, hehe.
While doing the EVTCHR I just couldn't resist to fix up the face, and do something about the hair so it is less outlined. Also, maybe it looks a little more like the portrait now. Yay or nay?
Yay for the new hair, she looks better now and Nay because the hair in the portrait doesn't look like your sprite. But a new portrait will be great.
i cant see the model, its blocked or something here, but base the hair off the portrait. it would be a waste not to make use of something like that.
I made the bang more visible, as it is on the portrait. I cannot see why it looks less like it, but w/e. To make it 100% accurate, I should add a long strand of hair, but this is unneccesary. Mind showing your idea of making it more like a portrait?
The portrait looks amazing, but definitely the hair needs to be redone to match it. I honestly dislike the hair on 2a. I don't know if its the color choice or the shading or what but something makes it look rather unnatural.
Kagebunji, your altered take on the front looks good. I'd add a tiny bit back to the side you trimmed though, it looks a little too far cut back. I'd like to see how you'd do the back of the hair, though, because that's what bugs me the most on 2a.
This is a great sprite.. for someone's first esp. I say just submit it. the fighting frame's hair does slightly bother me but; it's still worth submitting and we don't want to overwhelm the new person with walls of critique.
:) I have been meaning to pick it back up. I told myself I would finalize Meliadoul earlier today, but eh... Just happen to be procrastinating with other FFT stuff. And hitting walls while attempting Marach's re-envisioning.
And well, if I am correct, here it is up until this point in all near-finality: (without Kagebunji's altered version)
This Is Pretty Awesome ! :ban:
ooh this sprite gives me a reason to keep her in the game!
Yeah, it is a pretty amazing sprite, but only cause lijj's portrait is sexy AF.
Lijj and Twinees' portrait that is.
Why not submit this beaut?
yes why hasnt this been submitted?
Yet ANOTHER spriter falls silent. That would be my guess. God it sucks, no one ever stays. We spriters need a tighter knit union.
I went ahead and uploaded it Tojoe. Hope you don't mind.
I liked the idea of Meliadoul with lighter hair, and I also liked the profile provided itt.
I did some small editing and clean up to combine the two ideas.
See attached,
Have a great day