Final Fantasy Hacktics

NOTE: Discuss Items ONLY
NOTE2: Cancel: Dead also includes Cancel: Death Sentence


Master Guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=6483.0)

I think we can make Ice/Lightning Bow usable, pumping up their WP's to Windslash, and dropping the Ice/Bolt 2 proc.

Too much banned or redundant stuff.

Weapons:  At least 3 weapons in the major classes should be viable, preferably following a scheme of "best WP, no procs", "moderate WP, proc", and "moderate WP, boosted W.Ev".  Or the strongest can have reduced W.Ev.  But, I do like the accross the board reductions.  Either way....


Shields:  Good spread -- suggest adding cancels to diamond and platina though.

Heavy Headgear:  Bring up the bottom, and shift over the sleep cancelation to a helmet that also doesn't have the highest health boost.

Light Headgear:  Good spread, I'm happy to see the speed boosters taking a major HP hit.

Heavy armor:  See heavy headgear.  Needs more options, even if they're shotgunned onto the spread.

Light Armor:  Secret cloths are oddly redundant, and I suppose y'all decided to keep the weak+absorb combos around?

Robes:  Boost silk robe to have good health with moderate MP (something like 75/25) with no other perks.

Accessories - ALL accessories should be viable.  


Additionally all genji gear can follow the suit of the genji gloves and be the pre-reqs to one or several draw outs.  Like, in order to draw out Chiri (MA*10) you need to be in the full genji set, which doesn't really excel in health or stat boosts.  You can also utilize the ability requirement hack to enable stronger and otherwise banned abilities only when equip with the odd piece of weak weapon/armor/set which is win-win as it allows for more combinations on both the ability and item front.

On a similar note, we could also bump up Coral Sword's WP.
Power Wrist is outclassed by both Bracer and Battle Boots. Heck, Battle Boots is a bit too good. Extra move, power, and survivability(ish). Maybe give the Boots' 15% evasion to Power Wrist?
We could make one of the useless shields Absorb: Earth, Weak: Lightning to fit that 'cycle.'
Flash Hat having less HP than Cachusha and Barette feels weird. Understandable, just feels weird.
Why is Cursed Ring banned? Being Undead is a pretty harsh drawback...
For some of the currently banned armors, you could just give them crap HP, like Thief Hat/Flash Hat.

here is a a test for Ninja Swords.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/NinjaSwords.png)

I need opinions.

Spell Edge finally doesn't inflict Don't Act anymore? Thank you.

Aside from that, the only thing that jumps out is Hidden Knife and Sasuke Knife, both because of the +1 Speed and because it seems like Hidden Knife almost completely obviates Sasuke Knife.

IMO, if you're going to make it so that Sasuke Knife can't be used with Two Swords or Two Hands (though that wouldn't prevent it from being forced Two Hands if so desired), then you can give it a useful proc (say 25% Add: Slow or even 25% Add: Don't Act) and maybe drop the WP a tad.

Hidden Knife is used for Throw Type Ninjas. Ninja is also losing innate 2 swords if this happens. That way, it doesn't stack with Attack UP or Concentrate.

here are some proposed changes to Longbows and Knives.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/Longbows.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/Knives.png)

EDIT: Swords
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/Swords.png)

Oh, I wasn't aware about that with regards to Two Swords. That's good, then, because I was going to say that Ninjas are pretty much always used with Concentrate in these things.

The Longbows seem fine, though Mythril Bow seems a bit weak. Not really sure what to suggest since I pretty much got rid of it by completely changing it.

Not sure how I feel about the +1 Moves on Knives, though ironically that's more because it's likely to be source of weakness than strength as with +1 Speed. I can't think of anything better to suggest at the moment, so I'm fine.

Two Swording Ancient Sword seems like it'd be kind of OP since Petrify is even more powerful than Don't Act, which took people out all the time. I'm not sure whether just not allowing it to be Duel Wielded would solve the problem or whether you would need to change status proc to something else entirely, though I kind of lean towards the latter.

Blood Sword is now 10 WP
Ancient Sword is now 12 WP and cannot be dual wielded or 2 handed

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/Katanas.png)

The Katana look fine, though Bizen Boat may end up being OP'd; I doubt it though, since it isn't Difference on command. Speaking of 100% things, is Murasama 100% either of those statuses or just the standard 25%? Also, are Katana (and KnightSwords) still based on Brave/Fury?

...I feel odd being the only person to respond to this.

My bad. Muramasa is 25% for one of the status. Katana are still Brave based, but Knight Swords are retaining their 1.3 formula, which is just PA*WP

No need to apologize. Just wanted to make sure.

With regards to Katanas still using Brave, isn't that a bit unfair to them considering that Brave is more of a double-edged sword now AND Knight Swords tends to be more powerful as is because they're exclusive to just Knights? I thought that was an ASM to get rid of the Brave in Katanas, though I may be thinking of the wrong thing....

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/Spears.png)

Holy Lance and Oberisk/Obelisk could probably stand lose a point of WP and Javelin could perhaps stand to gain a point of WP; Holy Lance is the only one that should probably be changed a bit weaker due to the Holy proc. Otherwise, it looks good.

Damned: Do keep in mind that Lancer MA is garbage. Holy will add around another ~30 damage. Maybe even less.

I'm aware of that. I was thinking of people who aren't Lancers, like Samurai.

Ok, here is a more finalized list of Weapons. Anything you feel is wrong or should be changed, just post.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Knives.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/NinjaSwords.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Swords.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/KnightSwords.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/katana.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Axes.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Rods.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Staves.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Flails.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Guns.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Crossbows.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Longbows.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Harps.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Books.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Spears.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Sticks.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Bags.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Cloths.png)

Very well then.

• Knives - Gave my comments on these already.
• Ninja Blades - Gave my comments on these already.
• Swords - Gave my comments on these already.
• Knight Swords - Seem fine. Nice to see Defender actually look useful now.
• Katana - Gave my comments on these already.
• Axes - Is the "Critical Hit" still that Dark-based 85% attack? I never liked that and it seems especially unnecessary since Axes have a less wonky formula. Otherwise fine.
• Rods - Still kind of weary of Dragon Rod, though at least its WP isn't idiotic now. Otherwise fine.
• Staves - Not much to say. They seem better than they were, but can the AI actually take advantage of things like 25% Cast Esuna or Reflect?
• Flails - Nothing to see here.
• Guns - Nice to see Romanda Gun got strengthened, though I'm not sure how feel about consistent 81 damage. I'm also weary to see magical guns, but I'm willing to see how they work out.
• Crossbows - Not sure how I feel about Bowgun being able to be 2-Handed for more damage and 100% status on otherwise moderately powerful weapons with distance, but we'll see how it works out. (This is perhaps hypocritical of me to say.)
• Longbows - Gave my comments on these already, but since more was added, I have to say again that I'm fine with everything except for Mythril Bow, which seems a bit weak to me still. But we'll see.
• Instruments - Bloody Strings could perhaps stand to lose evasion as was said earlier, but otherwise they're fine.
• Books - Battle Dict is an improvement, but I'm really not a fan of the strong spell procs and, really, besides maybe Faith, I don't see why anyone would want to use the Monster Dict over the Papyrus Plate. That said, I also have to ask which of the three Bio 3s is the proc of the last book.
• Spears - Gave my comments on these already.
• Sticks - Look rather powerful as a whole, though Gokuu Rod still blows since there's really no reason that an Oracle would want to inflict someone with Innocent most of the time. Otherwise fine.
• Bags - I still say that the Always Regen items need to be weak to something other than Darkness, but it's fine for now.
• Cloths - Ryozan Silk is OP. Always: Innocent almost completely trumps Always: Shell, especially since Malak and monsters aren't around. Ryozan Silk would be fine with "Always: Reflect" IMO.

And here is a more finalized list of armors and accessories. If everyone is happy with the equipment, we can reopen the test tournament.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Helmets.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Hats.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Armors.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Clothes.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Robes.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Accessories.png)

now... before we get ahead of ourselves...

is there enough -space- for all this stat boosting/stat immunity/starting status?

79 Slots for equipment, I counted roughly 64 here. Not counting the few repeated (such as always: Reflect)

Yeah, there's definitely enough space. Looks nice, I approve.

I forgot Shields. I don't know if Ribbons should appear either, and should perfumes be equippable for Males?

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/FFT%20Arena/Shields.png)

Ribbons can stay dead IMO. And, yes, perfumes should be able to be equipped by everyone.

Make 2 female only, 2 male only! Perfume and Cologne! Or... not. The Berserk one should be for females, though, if this happens.

Updated Cursed Ring.

Some idea I threw in another topic

- Rainbow sword: High WP (15-20 maybe?) Has EVERY element in it (so if you absorb only one of them you absorb the sword damage)
- Poison sword: 5 WP, 30% evade, Makes the wielder immune to poison, every time it hits it casts the black magic
"poison" on the target (The black spell has AoE, so it can potentially poison more than 1 enemy at time if they are near)
- Blazing sword (Got the reference?) 8 WP, fire elemental, 0% evade, 1-2 range (IDK if it's possible to give 1-2 range to a sword) absorb fire
- Defender: 3 WP, 50% evade, Always protect and shell (Maybe only protect?)
- Rotten sword: 13 Wp, PA/MA +1, Always: Undead, poison, blind, draining effect of the blood sword on hit
- Cleric sword: 7 WP, 20% evade, heals on hit, always regen on the wielder

Quote- Rainbow sword: High WP (15-20 maybe?) Has EVERY element in it (so if you absorb only one of them you absorb the sword damage)

Hm... it's either going to be too powerful or absolutely worthless...

Quote- Poison sword: 5 WP, 30% evade, Makes the wielder immune to poison, every time it hits it casts the black magic "poison" on the target (The black spell has AoE, so it can potentially poison more than 1 enemy at time if they are near)

Nope, only hits the target, no AoE on proc'd spells. Anyways, the evade makes it way too OP.

Quote- Blazing sword (Got the reference?) 8 WP, fire elemental, 0% evade, 1-2 range (IDK if it's possible to give 1-2 range to a sword) absorb fire

I like 2 ranged weapons not spears, but FFM said it takes away frmo spears

Quote- Defender: 3 WP, 50% evade, Always protect and shell (Maybe only protect?)

The wielder will never die, wayyyyyyyyyy too OP.

Quote- Rotten sword: 13 Wp, PA/MA +1, Always: Undead, poison, blind, draining effect of the blood sword on hit

I'm not sure about this one, but I wouldn't use it for sure.

Quote- Cleric sword: 7 WP, 20% evade, heals on hit, always regen on the wielder

More healing items! But the EV and the Always: Regen on it makes it too powerful.

wizard outfit is supposed to give +2 MA?  seems to render wizard robe useless

edit:  Can any items that blocks:Dead please also block:death sentence?  It's an annoying move when the AI DS's someone, then ignores them, and then the unit doesn't even keel over.

yes, good points. I'll buff Wizard Robe after the tournament. Also, anything that blocks Dead also blocks Death Sentence, effective immediately.

So I know you guys have been discussing how to keep the weapons balanced and varied enough that any given weapon has a chance of seeing action, and I had something of an idea.  The consensus seems to be that some weapons will always be outclassed.  What if you gave each weapon and armor a GP cost?  Each player would have a starting GP pool which they would spend to buy their weapons and armor (either a large pool for the entire party, or a small pool for each individual character).  Alternately, you could actually make the equipment cost JP and increase the players' starting pool accordingly.

On the positive side, there would be no need to make all the weapons and armors balanced.  Simply give the best items a prohibitive cost and make the players decide what is worth the cost.

On the negative side it makes for more complicated team-building, with players having to map out their equipment in much the same way they do abilities.

In either case it would add another level of strategy to team-building.

q: is it just me or is mythril bow obviated by ultimus bow 95% of the time? the only reasons I could find for mythril would be punch arts and elemental, but besides that, ultimus bow > mythril bow.

edit:same for oberisk and dragon whisker.

imo, just scratch mythril bow and oberisk.

okay, the current scheme for crossbows versus longbows totally shafts longbows

Range
equal on both sides

WP
Crossbow wins on pure WP, AND in effective XA because Longbow's partially speed based formula usually weakens them. OH and crossbows can be used with Two Hands for double the power...yeah...

Effects
Crossbows have a mix of 100% status and extra attacks, Longbows have elemental procs and damage, Crossbows win again just on the basis of 100% status AT RANGE with a HIGH POWER WEAPON


My proposal, Crossbows become re-imagined as small handheld 'bowguns' or dart launchers rather then huge armor piercing blistae (except for Gastrifitus), low damage, but used to inflict status at range.

Bowgun - WP 7 - Range 4 - 25% chance of extra attack

Night Killer - WP 8 - Range 4 - 25% chance of Blind

Crossbow - WP 10 - Range 4 - no special effect

Poison Bow - WP 8 - Range 4 - 25% chance of Poison

Hunting Bow - WP 8 - Range 4 - 25% chance of Don't Move

Gastrifitus - WP 14 - Range 4 - Earth Element, Forced Two-Hands

:EDIT: lowered proposed Gastrifitus WP from 16 to 14

All longbows have had their range increased by 1. I agree with the xbow nerfs, anyone else have anything to add?

EDIT: Front page updated longbows.

the dancer cloths need to be fixed as well. Will giving them 0 WP make the AI not use them? 2WP is silly anyways. either give it some or none.  also always protect/shell on them is OP imo. I see that on the cloths and a few of the knight swords  

Give them 0 WP will indeed make them wonky IIRC. They're actually fine as is considering they have minimal weapon, but can actually do damage. They were always meant to be evasive weapons before anything else and as philsov's team proved, while Dancers can take tank quite handily with that and (Mag.) Defense UP, I'd argue they actually need that to be effective since they really don't have much else with Nameless Dance, Last Dance and even Item getting nerfed.

The Knight Swords...probably need to change, but considering no one used them (surprisingly), it's kind of hard to say.

As for Crossbows, I agree with Skip Sandwich. 100% Poison on Poison Bow was OP anyway. Only thing I disagree with him is that Gastraphetes/Gastrifitis should be Earth-element, but I can see why he'd suggest that and it doesn't seem like a huge deal; Gastraphetes definitely needs to be Forced-2H, though I've always said that since vanilla. Night Killer (or Poison Bow, but not both) could maybe be Dark since I'd argue that we need more Dark attacks, especially since none of the weapons are Dark.

the problem with cloths is more that the AI still likes using them (quite stupidly, imo!) on units when dance is better.  To this end, I actually suggest making them one range so the AI is even less stupid with them.  Maybe go down to 1 WP, too.  

100% Poison, by itself, wasn't too bad either -- its more that the AI frantically likes to cleanse it (at least, from what I saw) which is where the real lockdown occurred.  I like the new xbow scheme though.

Yeah, that's what I meant by OP: Basically if the computer has an ability that should cure Poison, they're pretty much guaranteed to use their next turn curing Poison even if they'll just get Poisoned right again next round. My first match is pretty much THE example of this because of Masamune not being Random flagged, so See No Evil spent precious time trying to Masamune himself repeatedly instead of using Heal (which he had used the first time) and died like an idiot.

Reducing Cloth range and WP seems fine. I'm still not sure why they were negating the Confusion of people they couldn't 2HKO. It's still a mystery....

Knightswords are fine. Yes, Always: Protect/Shell is quite powerful, but they don't get shields. Shields are very interesting and useful in Arena and can be just as powerful.

Spike Shoes is now - Band of Elements: Neutral: All Elements (done by being Weak/Strong against all elements). This is also implemented in the BETA110 patch.

I don't know if you caught this before the time warp, but I have very strong reservations against allowing Two Hands with crossbows, the benefit is simply too strong to allow with ranged weapons, since it makes flare, holy, death, petrify and other ranged single target damage/KO abilities obsolete, since it equals or surpasses the damage potential of all of these, while being instant and free. That's the reason that I put Gastrifitus as earth elemental, since my proposal puts it as a Two Handed  Bow Gun without the extra attack chance, elemental boosting allows the same damage potential as double attack would, but is easier for opponents to mitigate (important since the Gastrifitus can be used with either Attack UP or Concentrate). (it's also a conceptual thing, as the G is literally a giant crossbow/small siege engine/fantasy analog to an Anti-Material Rifle, i.e. something to be fired from a prone position with an aiming brace/bipod or the like)

Fair enough. Crossbows to lose 2hands when I can update it.

Oh, that reminds me of something similar I forgot to mention (alongside forgetting to mention my distaste with the ability to Two Hands a crossbow): Why aren't Guns Forced 2 Hands? It similarly seems unfair to longbows for something that normally can't be evaded to also be able to equip extra evasion and STILL have more range and power.

1) They require Equip Shield or Equip Gun to have a shield and a gun
2) More power? Unless you're using a stone gun, I'd say crossbows deal more damage than guns all the time. And everyone knows what Stone Guns do.
3) Guns can now be blocked by Arrow Guard, if you're so worried about guns killing you.

I would actually argue that guns are a little too weak since longbows outclass them easily with a little bit of height.

I'd be inclined to agree if height weren't such an iffy thing on most maps.

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"2) More power? Unless you're using a stone gun, I'd say crossbows deal more damage than guns all the time. And everyone knows what Stone Guns do.

Crap. I meant more unfair to Longbows. I really have not been proofreading this week at all.

for bows, there is 1 that has a range of 6 assuming no height, and the rest are 5.

for guns there are 3 that have a range of 6 regardless of height, and the rest are 5.

And since longbows (from what I've seen) do more damage while also having the height-boosting range, they beat guns for me.

Here is a random idea to make spell guns more useful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqSmas240r0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqSmas240r0)

Hmm... I like it.

haha, but seriously, by simply shuffling the ability slots around, we could do things like...

Death Penalty: Randomly casts Demi, Demi 2 or Death, WP 20 (enough to give the spells a decent % chance to succeed)

Ether Bolt: draws out the user's life force and fires it as energy, randomly deals PA * 13 damage (25% backlash damage), PA * 26 damage (50% backlash damage), or PA * 39 damage (100% backlash damage).

I like those ideas as well.

Meteor Gun, Death Penalty, and Ether Bolt. Sweet names for sweet ideas.

I don't have to shuffle anything. I can just hex edit the spell code and percentages to whatever I want them to be.

Proposed changes for Items
ITEMS
-All Bows gain 1 WP
-Both Flails Reworked
-Flail Added: 9 WP, Strengthen Water, Water Element
-Flame Ship: 9 WP, Strengthen Fire, Fire Element
-Morning Star: 9 WP, Strengthen Lightning, Lightning Element
-Scorpion Tail Added: 10 WP

I don't see the point of Scorpion Tail as is, it does almost the exact same damage, but with no special effects, I suppose that it can't be blocked by elemental protection... what if you drop the WP of the elemental flails to 8?  Thanks to innate element boosting, that's still 80 damage a strike, plus boosted Jutsus, then Scorpion Tail becomes the best flail for straight damage.

Fair enough. Elemental Flails down to 8 WP.

I'm thinking of changing mantles like this. It will give them a lot more use, but would they be too strong?

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/ProposedMantles.png)

I like the new breakpoints for Evade/Mevade, but shotgunning elemental absorbtion onto mantles like this seems sort of arbitrary. I mean, I'm all for more playing with elemental affinities, but I don't think this is quite the way to go.  Besides as it stands, Water element is the only one that cannot be absorbed by anything

Earth: Mithril Shield, Earth Clothes
Ice: Ice Shield
Holy: Diamond Helm, Chameleon Robe, Magic Ring
Lighting: Gold Shield, Mace of Zeus
Wind: Platina Helmet, Magic Ring
Fire: Black Costume, Fire Shield
Dark: Undead Ring
Water: big fat nothing

How about this as an alternative?
Small Mantle: P-ev 0, M-ev 24
Initial: Transparent/Slow, Immune: Haste, Absorb: Wind, Weak: Water

Leather Mantle: P-ev 4, M-ev 20
Half: Water, Thunder

Wizard Mantle: P-ev 8, M-ev 16
Strengthen: Wind, Water, Earth

Elf Mantle: P-ev 12, M-ev 12

Dracula Mantle: P-ev 16, M-ev 8
Always: Undead, Absorb: Dark, Weak: Holy, Water

Feather Mantle: P-ev 20, M-ev 4
Always: Float, Strengthen: Wind, Weak: Fire

Vanish Mantle: P-ev 24, M-ev 0
Initial: Transparent/Slow, Immune: Haste, Absorb: Water, Weak: Wind

We also need more abilities that deal water-element damage, right now it's limited to Suiton and Leviathan, as well as Grand Cross with a water element weapon (is Grand Cross flagged as Requires Sword? Gunso never used it in Knights Errant, and there's no mention of it in the Special column of the abilities list, so I was wondering. Even though I first proposed it as a pesudo-swordskill, I really intended it to be weapon type independent, so that it might be a reward for fielding an uncommon equipment build for a physical unit, such as Gunso as a paladin with Equip Gun)

The problem with your setup is that I don't have enough Item space left. I have 5 free spaces left, and 2 of the spaces I can use again using my setup, since other items have the same attributes. Once those 5 are burned up, the rest of the items added in will have to be plain weapons or use an existing attribute.

It seems to me that the Wizard Robe is fairly low on overall stats compared to the other robes (other robes 125-130 total HP/MP, some with bonuses, and Wizard Robe has a measly 72 total with MA + 2), which I think could do well with a slight increase to 55-60 HP/25-30 MP, which still isn't much, but is better than where it stands now.

Even if you leave the above where it is, it would still be nice to have a MA + 1 option for the robes, similar to what the clothes have (with around 60-65 HP/35-40 MP or so), just to have something else to use for MA instead of the Wizard Robe/Outfit.

You know, I think there's too much emphasis on: Add 1 or 2 status protection and lower the HP by 30. It's simply not worth it.

I'll start to CONSIDER status protection if the item has 10 less HP than the best gear (if status protection is its only pro).
Clothes are all fine.
Golden/Diamond armor are just utter trash. There are many things that can cancel Petrify and you only need one person with Holy Water in your team for undead.
Then Mythril/Gold/Crystal/Genji helmet.... all trash.

If you really want to make status protection worth something, you have to be able to build a setup that can resist nearly all negative statuses; whoever that would require all your item slots. Protection for Petrify alone? I can understand. As for the others you should have stuff that protects at least against 3-4 statuses.

Also for creativity you can have items that prevents good statuses. For example armor that grants more HP but immunity to haste: It would encourage non-haste setups.

Quote from: "Zodiac"You know, I think there's too much emphasis on: Add 1 or 2 status protection and lower the HP by 30. It's simply not worth it.

I'll start to CONSIDER status protection if the item has 10 less HP than the best gear (if status protection is its only pro).
Clothes are all fine.
Golden/Diamond armor are just utter trash. There are many things that can cancel Petrify and you only need one person with Holy Water in your team for undead.
Then Mythril/Gold/Crystal/Genji helmet.... all trash.

If you really want to make status protection worth something, you have to be able to build a setup that can resist nearly all negative statuses; whoever that would require all your item slots. Protection for Petrify alone? I can understand. As for the others you should have stuff that protects at least against 3-4 statuses.

Also for creativity you can have items that prevents good statuses. For example armor that grants more HP but immunity to haste: It would encourage non-haste setups.

This was really a breath of fresh air for me.  In choosing equips for my team I've almost never been tempted to pick the 1 status immunities over the MA/PA bonuses, even if they do have a little more HP.  I think it'd be interesting to try making immunities to either 2 good status or 3 mediocre status.  3-4 is sort of pushing it for me, seeing as ribbon blocks what, 7 meh ones? and only about a 30 HP bonus.

I can fix some of them up I think. I'll agree that most of the Armors/Helmets aren't worth using. I'll see if I have enough space to make them a fair bit more interesting, but don't expect too much. I think I have one free space left(which is being saved for Nagrarock) and from there, maybe 6 free item spaces if Armors/Helmets get changed. A few of the item attributes are also being used by other items.

Ok, here are proposed Helmets and Armors. I can't do much for Crystal and Genji Helmet, since they share item Attributes with other stuff and I am out of room =/

If people want, I can also add +2 PA/MA Helmets and Armors, like Clothes and Hats have.

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/HelmetsProp.png)
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/ArmorsProp.png)

I think Crystal and Genji Helmets should be boosted by 5 more, so only 10 less then Grand Helmet.

And I think Gold and Diamond Armor need more of an HP boost, cause that 40 points of HP is killer but I might be undervaluing the status immunities.

anti-berserk is suckage on armor, put that on a robe or something! And didnt we get rid of confusion completely? other than that they're looking much better

Is Salty Rage still legal?  I don't think there's any way to balance it as an accessory - has there been thought given to making it a Body armor?

Berserk removes all evasion from the unit, so you can say it's somewhat balanced. Also, berserker units lost their evasion, reaction, and the accessory. I say it's pretty good as it is, other than the super powerful specialized units.

Possible noob question here, could someone give me a link to the full list of weapon formulas?

Bugfix - Gold Armor lacks Cancel: Death Sentence.

As far as I know, the differences from vanilla are:

FLAIL: WP * WP
BAG, AXE: [(0 + (1..PA)) + PA] * WP
KNIGHT SWORD: PA * WP

And the differences from 1.3 are
BAG, AXE: [(0 + (1..PA)) + PA] * WP

No clue about the Octagon Rod, and I don't know if the Katana formula is fixed.  These would be nice to have in the OP of this thread.

PHYSICAL (PA): SWORD, SPEAR, ROD, KNIGHT SWORD, CROSSBOW
MAGICAL (MA): STAFF, POLE
WEAPON (WP): GUN, FLAIL
RANDOM (PA..PA*2): AXE, BAG
HYBRID (PA/2 + MA/2): INSTRUMENT, CLOTH, DICTIONARY
SPEED (PA/2 + SP/2): LONGBOW, KNIFE, NINJA SWORD
BRAVE (PA * Br / 100): KATANA


Can the elemental flails get a boost to 9? I think the maths go:

Scorp: 10 * 10 = 100
Other: 8 * (8 + 2) = 80
Suggest: 9 * (9 + 2) = 99

Having an elemental attack isn't that much benefit, sometimes a hindrance. EDIT: Oh, they were originally proposed 9... heh...

I think flails could use a boost, but with no one using them it's hard to say.

Nerf handbags harder, no reason a universal equip should grant 2PA/2MA/H:All and have 8 effective WP (spikiness!).

There's not a lot of incentive to wear a robe - magic users have sufficient MP, Move-MP Up is available.  I think that they might as well be beefed up a bit, "Equip Clothes" is presently even less intimidating sounding than "Basic Skill".

Perhaps we could use a pair of robes that grant Always: Shell and Always: Protect, respectively, I don't think that would be too imbalanced with robe hp levels (especially if we make it so that paladins can no longer innately equip robes). Also, i vote that we add the Snow Muffler to clothes as an ice-element counterpart to the Black Costume and Rubber Costume.

First and foremost, hurray for Santa Outfit and Iron Boots! While I'm more excited for the former, I'll be testing out the latter first.

Now, from the video thread, Skip Sandwich brought up this possible solution to Stone Gun given pokeytax's video of Stone Gunners doing 232 damage to everything:

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"@pokeytax RE: Stone Guns
i'm pretty sure what you saw there was an example of good compat + 70-70 fury + attack UP, in other words, the worst case secenario.

Maybe instead of or in addition to Initial: Petrify, they could have Always: Slow and Immune: Haste, they should probably be forced 2-hands as well

I agree that they should be Forced 2-Hands--I believe I mentioned before that I think all Guns should--and agree on perhaps an immunity to Haste. However, I rather vehemently disagree on them having the Always: Slow disadvantage that Salty Rage has now.

Stone Guns already carry the problem of needing at least one other unit to have an ability to cure Petrify, which not only means that when you use Stone Gun, you're choosing the abilities of two units rather than just one, but there's the very real possibility that the unit that can heal Petrify gets offed before it does it's job. While this only tends to happen on small maps, it's still a big enough issue, even with two units dedicated to healing Petrify (as is usually the case on any team that has used Stone Gun so far) that permanent Slow would honestly make it not worth, especially given Arrow/Projectile Guard. (I'll admit some bias on the Arrow Guard part given I seem to the only person who uses that with any regularity).

I do, think, however it needs a nerf. It could probably stand to go 10 WP if it gets some additional boost to put further above Romanda Gun, even perhaps only being weakened to 11 WP. I think it could also stand to take go down from range 6 to range 5. Some combination of these should be enough I feel, but we exist to test things, so we'll see depending on what changes in Beta 128.

Can we increase Cross Helmet to gain at least 10 HP to compensate for the 45 HP difference between it and the highest hp helmet? Looking at the hats, Golden Hairpin trades of 50 HP for 50 MP, +1 MA, AND immunity to silence while Cross Helmet only has 40 MP to make up from.

I like having MP be hard to get on armor, so I think that discrepancy is fine. But with Paladins having minimal MP, maybe Cross Helmet could stand a lil' buff.

Lancers aren't very effective, because they have lowish PA and because spears are really, really bad. Buff spears.
Papyrus Plate is so much better than the other books that it keeps sidetracking my Zombie team, I get miffed that I have to give up 1 WP to use Battle Dict. Unless Choco Meteor is like MA*10 these need balancing.
Two-thirds of staves are weak, the 25% proc rate is not high enough for the "love tap" paradigm to work out unless it's MBarrier or something, or it's also a mild heal like Healing Staff.
The status crossbows and elemental bows are pretty weak.
Cloth is not good.

Re: current changelog (http://216.59.2.117/~zodiac/forum/viewtopic.php?p=131503&sid=503d888ecdc65a16912cb31c77dc8f10&sid=503d888ecdc65a16912cb31c77dc8f10#p131503)

Cloths are nice - since the Fury and Defend hacks conflict (right?), Always:Defend is innate Abandon, which is very strong but also a fitting Dancer trait. I think they should be forced 2-hands to prevent Abandon/Equip Shield/Escutcheon and lose some W-EV, and maybe separate Defend and Protect/Shell, but definitely worth playing with now.

I love Iron Boots conceptually, but in practice they're kind of a drag - a mandatory equip on Singers/Dancers/Scholars that encourages turtling. That's aesthetics though. I'm kinda worried about the cloths for the same reason, but Performing/Charging should negate Defend, and Iron Boots already provide Protect/Shell, so it's not as bad.

The rest seems good, looking forward to trying it out.

So I was watching the latest match between Skip Sandwich and myself again and I noticed something a bit odd. Balrog's HP was 40 HP higher than Sagat (who had the bad luck to get OHKO'd by a spell barely above his HP) even though the only equipment they're differing in is Santa Outfit vs. Power Sleeve and Santa Outfit is supposed to have 80 HP instead of 100 HP.

Is Santa Outfit supposed to have 100 HP to further mirror Black Costume and it's just not on item list (like a few other things)? Or is this just a mistake? (It's not like Balrog having 40 more HP mattered in that match-up anyway since he never even came close to dying.)

It should be a mirror of Black Costume in HP. 100 HP, and shouldn't have the PA. Table is wrong, I will update in a minute.

Oh. Hunh. Well, that makes more sense, then.

I think I'll keep the Santa Outfit on Balrog for now though.

Fix the dancer cloth while you're there, I'm eager to try that out!

Genji Shield lost its PA boost awhile back... and I think it absorbs Ice now... and no more Immune: Dead/DA...
I'll check the image data to confirm: Ah... Sleep immune now. This is the same as Santa Outfit I assume? Yep, same location.

EDIT: Oh, right... was gonna throw up a random opinion thing on all items. I'll just say Defender WP (-2 perhaps) nerf, and Elemental attribute shouldn't cost so much WP (or any).

I think Katanas could use +1 or 2 WP across the board. The Brave portion of the damage formula really hurts its damage, especially with no innate Two Hands.

While making that new theme team (which is now finally in the team thread after a day of consideration), I also noticed that, to put it bluntly, Sticks kind of suck. There's really no reason to use anything except for Ivory Rod and maybe Whale Whisker (which is what I'm going to be trying...for now). Ivory Rod effectively boosts its own damage on top of boosting spell-casting capacity, so, even with 108 Gems and Whale Whisker (which you have to worry about being absorb/negated/halved), it still trumps that out with Two Hands since it's already effectively 10 or 11 WP.

Iron Fan is thus nigh-useless because it can't be Two-Handed and even if you're not using Two-Hands, you don't lose much damage using Ivory Rod, especially with Magic Attack Up; I'm not sure what to do with it, though. Gokuu Rod has always sucked due to Innocent being the last thing that a magic-using class wants to inflict, though I can understand why it IS on a magic-classes weapon's (that only one class gets innately) than a physical class; it could use more weapon power to make up for that.  Octagon Rod is, like Javelin, kind of dicey, but is more usable than the aforementioned two, if only due to how powerful Frog is.

Wanted to try out the newer Stone Gun, but I remembered that pretty much no one's used the spell-guns, so I thought I would give Glacier Gun a try. I'll have to reminder myself to test out the newer bows too.

(Also, as I said in the Stats/Abilities thread, it would probably do well to link to the Stats/Abilities thread, the Zodiac Chart and even the team making thread in the first post for convenience sake. I can't possibly be the only one who has multiple opens when making teams just because I don't want to go back and forth from the team thread.)

Quote from: "CT5Holy"I think Katanas could use +1 or 2 WP across the board. The Brave portion of the damage formula really hurts its damage, especially with no innate Two Hands.

I agree with this.

Agreed on Poles and Katanas. I would rather just see Katanas made PA*WP though.
It would be nice to have a "Master Guide" thread even if it's just all the charts stitched together.

The problem with ice/lightning bows is that the only class that can use them innately has 4 MA and usually no use for faith. You could throw equip ranged on a samurai but it's no where near worth a support ability to occasionally proc a mediocre ice 3. At the very least increase it to ice/bolt 4.

Edit: Give them both +2 MA. It won't be unbalanced on archer and any other unit would need to use support so +2 MA is balanced in that case too.

I agree with giving the ice/lightning bows a MA boost, without it, even max +MA gear female archers can only achieve 12 MA. let's compare best case scenarios

with +2 MA boost from bow
max MA gear female archer with Overwhelm - 8 PA, 6 MA, +6 MA from gear, +25% boost from Strengthen: Thunder, +20% boost from Overwhelm = 9 PA, 18 MA

Female scholar with Equip Ranged - 7 PA, 13 MA, +6 MA from gear, +25% boost from Strengthen: Thunder = 7 PA, 23 MA

without +2 MA boost from bow
female archer - 8 PA, 6 MA, +4 MA from gear, +25% boost from Strengthen: Thunder, +20% boost from Overwhelm = 9 PA, 14 MA = -4 MA from above example

female scholar - 7 PA, 13 MA, +4 MA from gear, +25% boost from Strengthen: Thunder = 7 PA, 21 MA = -2 MA from above example

Did the Item list revert or something with the forum move? Because while I was looking over Vega's Spear options, I noticed that Javelin had lost 2 WP...despite being pretty mediocre beforehand.

Speaking of Spears, if we're doing the name change thing come 129, can we PLEASE change Oberisk to Obelisk? It bugs the hell out of me.

According to my table, Javelin has always been 8 WP... I wouldn't mind if it got remade completely. It sucks right now.

Hunh. All the Spears were showing up as minus 2 WP when I posted that yesterday.

You have any Item Attribute space left? I'm guessing "no".

You guessed right.

Figures.

Off the top of my head, I'd say to give the Frog proc to Spear and then give Javelin +1 Speed instead and maybe 9 WP as well. That's all I can think of right now, especially since I remember, even 8 months later, how limiting Item Attribute space is.

Knives are pretty underwhelming, I mean, other then the Main Gauche and Oricalcum, they're pretty much worthless. What about something like the following?

Platina Dagger - WP 6, W-ev 15, Holy Element, +1 Move, 25% chance to cast Dia

Main Gauche - WP 8, W-ev 30, +1 Move

Orichalcum - WP 8, W-ev 15, +1 Move, +1 MA

Mage Masher - WP 8, W-ev 15, +1 Move, 25% chance to cast Reflect

Assassin Dagger - WP 8, W-ev 15, +1 Move, 25% chance to cast Demi

Air Knife - WP 8, W-ev 15, Wind element, +1 Move, Always: Float

Just want to point out that Kikuichimoji (the katana, not the DO skill) isn't earth elemental in-game (unless that was intended - Kiku IS supposed to be earth elemental, correct?)

If it is, that needs to be fixed for next version.

does anyone else think that maybe Earth Clothes should cancel or halve earth rather then absorb it? Also, what do people think about water and wind elemental equivalents to Earth Clothes? It would give people more of a reason to actually use Equip Clothes, since it would give some nice synergy with Paladins (Coral Sword, Heaven's Cloud and Kikuchimoji, with both sword attacks and grand cross) and Samurai (Heaven's Cloud and Kiku, both the swords and the draw outs).

I also feel that maybe Robes could use some Auto-Protect and Auto-Shell compliments to the Auto-Regen Light Robe, also balanced by a weakness to dark element. And maybe a pair of robes, lets call them the Red Robe and Blue robe, that function as the Black and White robes, but in respect to Water/Wind/Earth elements (Red robe strengthens Water/Wind/Earth, Blue robe halves Water/Wind/Earth)

With regards to Knives: While I agree that Knives possibly need a boost, considering what crappy MA most Knife wielders have, I'm not liking any of the changes outside of Air Knife and maybe Orichalcum.

With regards to Earth Clothes: I think that Earth Clothes should keep Absorb: Earth, but they should lose Strengthen: Earth...maybe. It might be be pretty negligible once Monks get nerfed again and Zodiac compat. prevents things like Gotwald's Earth-eating team from effortlessly destroying most teams.

With regards to everything else: I don't think FFMaster has any Item Attributes left, unfortunately.

This was discussed in chat, and Pride is 100% for redoing Equipment completely.

If people agree to this, I wouldn't mind doing it. However, if we do, a new meta will appear. I believe that each weapon type should have a seperate formula though, if we do the rehaul. Something like this:

Knives: SP*WP
Swords: PA*WP
Knight Swords: PA*2*Brave*WP
Ninja Swords:(PA*SP)/2*WP
Axes: (PA/2 +(1...PA))*WP
Rods: MA*WP
Staves: MA*2*Faith*WP

or something like that.

Just from looking at that, I'd have to say that Staves formula could probably end up being rather OP unless (or maybe even if) the WP was complete crap.

As far redoing all equipment, it's an interesting idea, but why prioritize that when equipment isn't even a huge problem right now. After all, it's not like it's a particular piece of equipment that won the tournament or even ruled. Hell, the most problematic class at present is the one that doesn't even use weapons.

If anything, I'd say weapons are mostly fine outside of knives and axes and maybe a couple of others.

I sure hope you mean ((PA+SP)/2)*WP (extra parentheses for extra clarity) instead of PA*SP.... Otherwise we'd be looking at like 400 damage Ninja Swords XD.

I don't particularly care either way, but I'm with Damned in that the weapons are overall fine. Except for knives. +1 Move for less damage just isn't worth it, especially since Ninja's skillset no longer depends on the Move stat.

If people want, we could start brainstorming ideas for a new equipment list, then compare and stuff, I guess? But yeah, redoing equipment seems like a lot of work for not much benefit (especially since there'd probably be a lot of re-balancing issues afterwards).

It was talked about in chat how a large amount of items are not used and/or are plain terrible and how it should be fixed, rather then having a slew of useless stuff taking up item attribute space.

Edit: So not a complete rehaul of the items but fixing some of the ones that currently are terrible and such (like the mantle set current set up makes no sense, at all) but there are some good spreads (like I think, for the most part, the robes are well done).

I mostly like the new proposed weapon formulas (except for any formula that deals straight Speed * WP), so taking whats already been proposed as a starting point, and adding my own crazy ideas, a more complete list might look like this;

Knives: (SP + Move + Jump)/2 * WP
Ninja Swords/Longbows: (PA + SP)/2 * WP
Swords: PA * WP
Knight Swords/Katana: (PA * 2 * Brave)/100 * WP
Axe: (PA + (rnd 1..(PA-1)) * WP
Flails: (MA + (rnd 1..(MA-1)) * WP
Rods: MA * WP
Staves (MA * 2 * Faith)/100 * WP
Poles: (MA + Move + Jump)/2 * WP
Books: (MA * 2 * CurMP)/MaxMP * WP
Cloth: (PA * 2 * CurHP)/MaxHP * WP
Spears: (PA + Move + Jump)/2 * WP
Crosbow/Guns: (SP + (rnd 1..(SP-1)) * WP
Handbag: (PA + MA + SP)/3 * WP

Knives and Staves are the biggest problems/most useless right now. Knives simply need to be stronger; +1 move just isn't enough. Several staves (and similarly, Poison Rod) rely on a frail mage whacking something for a possibility of an effect. Mages whacking things don't really happen anymore with Move MP-UP, and people would rather have +2 MA/strengthen element/etc anyway.

No abilities use the move stat, either, which makes knives even worse. Is it possible to make Throw Item's range based on the move of the user? I remember there being some discussion about this. Well, even if we did this, people would prefer guns for anti-sandbag. Still fairly good range even with 3 Move. So... Knives need a rehaul =P. One of the new knives could keep a +1 Move bonus (to possibly go with the Throw Item range tweak).

As usual, I have no good ideas for these Item rehauls.

Oh, I was also thinking if we've maybe slapped on too many status immunities to the heavy armor. We're making the tanky, high HP units even harder to deal with by giving them immunities to the most commonly used negative statuses. (mainly Don't Act and Sleep)

Ancient Sword is set to the same status adding as Chaos Blade, so it's removing Haste/Protect/Shell instead of adding Petrify.

Thanks for the info. Fixed for my version of Arena.

How 'bout a dialogue on Two Swords/Two Hands? First, big suggestion, if you could hax the supports to lower the char's damage... so 2H would only be ~40% boost, and 2H would reduce damage ~40% (more discussion on numbers later), then we could rid the weapon list of the "2H/2S" options, and just have all of them viable.

Using Attack Up as a comparison (+33% damage)... I see Two Swords as one which should be slightly worse due to its flexibility, double odds of getting through evasion for anti-sandbag, and OP boost when comboed with Aim/Break. Two Hands should be slightly better as it disallows shields, though it can be used on people who can't equip shields to begin with. That's where I got the earlier suggestions of only +40% for 2H, and -40% for 2S. The current method works too, of just making the specific 2H weapons be roughly 70% the WP of the alternative, and 2S ones 60%.

This comparison is based on each being a support, disregarding their JP costs, or job attached. Geomancer isn't much of a fighter, so maybe Attack UP should be more potent, where Ninja/Samurai and "special awesome" classes, so they should be spendy... or something? JP is something I rarely let get in the way of my themes.

I think the current setup is fine. 2H/2S-able weapons are right around 70% of the highest WP weapon in each category, as you would like.
Then again, if we go with your way, we would obsolete a few weapons and free up some Item Attributes (that's what I think they're called?). Specifically, Platina Dagger (although all the knives still need to be reworked IMO), Hidden Knife, Diamond Sword, and three odd-looking, low WP Poles.

Hmm. I definitely agree that Two Hands should be better. Right now, Two Hands vs. AUP nets roughly the same damage, when there should be a clear, distinct damage difference between Two Hands and AUP. I think numbers will have to be reworked whether we use our current setup or your suggestion.

Stone gun vs Gastrafitas.   Stone gun has 100% accuracy, longer range is eqipable with a shield and its drawback merely requires one ally to spend a first round action using Item, punch art, or white magic.   One would think that with all these advantages its equivilent the Gastrafagus would deal more damage,  but alas,  the stone gun in any set of hands deals 12*12= 144 base damage before brave effects,  while the Gastrafagus in the hands of either of the two classes that can use it deals 14*10 = 140.  I suggest weakening the stone gun by 1 WP while streghnthening the Gastrafagus by 1.     

I think you messed up Octagon Rod.  It's landing 100% Frog Procs based on Barren's video.  I'm not sure if you just typo'd it, or if it's an error related to the part of Pride's Weapon Proc Hack you rewrote to save space, since it's the only really obvious thing I've noticed in videos or in tests.  Dagger procs (at least Climhazzard ones) seem to be a lot lower than advertised to, at least personally, since I almost never see them go off despite them being set to 33%.

I do recommend checking over Octagon Rod and the rest of the hack before releasing 1.33.  I really think you should just use the full hack and my spreadsheet to avoid errors and typos, since you're not going to be in dire need of the bit of space you're saving and you're more likely to cause errors editing something that already works, but that's me.  I'd rather have something that works over all else.  Efficiency should always come secondary to function, since I've no need for an efficient item that doesn't do what I need it to do.

EDIT: Also, can you make sure with 1.33, units in-game can actually equip what they're allowed to equip?  I was changing my Chemist setups in the menus to experiment with things because making a new memory card every time I want a new setup is tedious as hell, and once I un-equipped my H Bag by accident, I couldn't re-equip it, and my Dancers couldn't equip Bags through the proper menus either.  I don't know if it pertains to just Bags or not, but if you could, please double check all that when you're doing other bugfixes and updates for 1.33.

@Malroth, I know that's an old post, but you lose two turns with the Stone Gun, not one.  One turn is lost healing Petrify, and the Petrified Unit itself loses one turn, because most of the field has reached 90 or 100 CT if they've not already Acted, yet its own CT is still on 00, essentially meaning its first turn was skipped as well.  If you're using White Magic to heal off the Petrify, it's even worse.  Not to say Stone Gun is bad, but just putting the drawback into proper perspective.

Defense Ring doesn't block Dead, just Death Sentence.  You should check over all your other anti-Dead and anti-Death Sentence items and make sure they properly cancel both, because there may be other errors.

Defense Ring isn't meant to block dead.

Quote from: FFMaster on September 24, 2011, 07:44:58 pm
Defense Ring isn't meant to block dead.

Quote from: PX_Timefordeath on July 13, 2010, 07:29:10 pm
NOTE: Discuss Items ONLY
NOTE2: Cancel: Dead also includes Cancel: Death Sentence

?

Or are you saying Dead also Cancels Death Sentence but the reverse isn't true?

If you're saying the latter, it's a rather confusing and odd thing to do since Death Sentence is weaker than auto-Dead for anyone who isn't me, unless Wizard's Death misses that much more often and there's really no other sources of it.

Some ideas:

1) Change H Bag to Initial: Innocent.  The current implementation is hard to use without self-haste for the benefits gained.

2) Make all items that are Always: Reflect into Initial: Reflect, but set Reflect's CT to 0 (so it never ends on its own, but is canceled by Dead).  Considering all the things Reflect can block (magic except summon and ninjitsu), it's useful on any team that doesn't run Raise2.

3) Please restore the Reflect Ring over the Heretic Ring.  It should grant:
+1 MA
Initial: Reflect
Null: Silence
This way, the offensive mage needn't fear enemy offensive mages.

4) Feather Boots could use a boost.  Since my above changes delete an Initial: Haste item, we can have:
+1 Move
Initial: Haste
Always: Float
Since this may slightly overshadow the role of Sprint Shoes, we should add Null: Don't Move to them, just for balance.  (Of course, doing this means Rubber Shoes should add Null: Don't Act, just so shoes have parity with mantles.)

5) Cherche and Setiemson need to be changed to always grant the status in question.  They currently are almost never used because they can be dispelled and are reset upon death.  (Yes, Persia with Always: Protect was broken, but you were tying the status to a weapon with reasonable WP.  Now, it's being tied to a slot that normally is used for anti-status/re-raise/power/mobility, which is much costlier).

6) With the advent of innate 2H + initial: berserk, katana WP need to be rearranged.
a) Murasame is arguably a weak katana since it never deals damage.  It should be 2Hable and have 11 WP to compensate.  This way, male samurai can actually function as healers despite not having the skill murasame heal for much.
b) Bizen Boat is actually fairly strong, in WP and effect.  Its WP should be reduced to 9.
c) Despite an "effective WP" of 11, Asura is actually fine since elemental = absorb/null/halve and to have that effective WP, your PA needs to be a multiple of 4 (or FFT rounds down), which is impossible on a samurai running salty rage + PA boosting gear + ATTACK UP.

7) The Scorpion Tail is similarly too powerful in the hands of a berserk ninja (576 damage before fury!)  I suggest raising the WP to 15, but unflagging 2 Swords.  This cuts the maximum power to 450 (high, but comparable to a similarly powerful Samurai), and gives Squire and Priest more options on offense.  Alternatively, if you really want scorpion tail to be balanced, while keeping 2 Swords, and don't want Squires hitting that hard, you can reduce WP to 11, which cuts maximum power to 462 on ninja only (and thus uses up both scorpion tails).

8) Books need to be redone.  What's currently on the list isn't very usable or exciting.

Papyrus Plate: 8 WP, 25% Flare
Madlemgen: 10 WP, 25% Stop (Status Effect, not TM Spell)
Battle Dictionary: 12 WP, 25% Undead (Status Effect, not Oracle Spell)
Monster Dictionary: 14 WP, 25% Reflect (TM Spell, not Status Effect)

This would be more usable and fun to play with.

I would never use the Monster Dictionary with that change since all current Reflect does is cancels Charging.

Quote from: Eternal248 on October 05, 2011, 05:40:05 pm
I would never use the Monster Dictionary with that change since all current Reflect does is cancels Charging.

Cancel: Charging + 25% HP Damage.

You might have a hope in high heaven of killing one of my Dancers! :o

It'd also serve as a check to all the mage-oriented buffs proposed, too, as well as just giving the best raw damage.  High-end damage weapon that gives me even more damage and disrupts their tempo on-proc?  Sounds fairly delicious, really.

The table currently lists Gold Staff as 10 WP?  Is this supposed to be?

However, there's still a few things I think could be improved there.
1) No one uses the Rainbow Staff because All: Elements is a serious downside.  I'd rather it be 10 WP, Neutral: All Elements.
2) The Healing Staff should be 11 WP for the same reason why we argued that the murasame (2Hable) should be 11 WP.

Gold Staff should be 8, nothing is listed on the changelogs as far as I know. And I agree with Rainbow Staff and Healing Staff.

Thinking about it some more, the Defender really could use a loss of 1 WP.

Save the Queen (20% W-EV / 33% physical damage reduction) ~ 53% physical damage effectiveness
Defender (40% W-EV) ~ 60% physical damage effectiveness
As you can see, the above effects are nearly equivalent.  Yes, protect blocks more things than P-EV, but protect can be removed (by death or by dispel magic) or can end on its own (CT expiration), while the effect on the Defender is permanent.  Thus, even when you consider the more "dynamic" metagame, protect is essentially equivalent to the extra evasion.  For equivalence purposes, then, the Defender should be 14 WP.

For the same reason why we nerfed poles from being 12 WP and 2Hable, the Slasher should also lose another point of WP, giving it 11 WP.  But since doing that would make the Giant Axe a better weapon (10 WP + Elemental + Self-Boost + 2Hable), the giant axe also needs to be downgraded to 9 WP (making it equivalent to the asura knife).

I'm not sure if I'd call Defender too good in that situation, though.  I don't feel the 15 WP on Defender is too much.

Save the Queen just honestly doesn't seem worth using anyway, even if you weaken Defender.  Personally, I'd just give all Knight Swords 40 Evade then have their effects and WP differentiate them.  Defender would still be good because Cancel: Don't Act on a weapon is a strong buff, and still constitutes the name "Defender", while the effects of all the other Knight Swords would be worth using in comparison to Cancel: Don't Act and some WP tradeoffs.  I think this is a case of not Defender being too good, but the other stuff being too weak.