Final Fantasy Hacktics

Projects => New Project Ideas => Topic started by: Bladegrasp1997 on January 09, 2015, 11:52:55 am

Title: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on January 09, 2015, 11:52:55 am
Hi everyone, I just recently found out about this site through a friend who was playing your modded version. Needless to say I was blown away by the all the custom characters and abilities. As the title suggest, would it be possible to replace the ingame 2d animation files for each character with 3d animated versions? Seeming as how the game engine is already set in a 3d environment, along with certain abilities and spells that use 3d effects. If so, I would be more than willing to make the models and animations needed for this.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on January 09, 2015, 02:24:34 pm
Sprites?

Which console do you want to work on this for? Playstation would be so restricted that it would be the most pointless thing to attempt ever: You'd just end up spending lots of your time creating something that is far uglier (the sprites are tiny as hell after all), requiring far more processing speed, more RAM, less VRAM...

If you want to work on 3D, I'd recommend sticking to what is already in 3D, like programming in some effects and the maps. Our map editor right now isn't all that great (ganesha), and little is understood of effects even at this point.

And really, you took a screenshot of your 3D model with your camera instead of printscreen...? Why.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on January 09, 2015, 02:45:41 pm
I'm sorry, I meant main character models(ramza,delita,gafgarion,jobs,etc). I took the picture awhile back and used it because it was the only pic available to show what kind of models I had in mind. I hope it wasn't against forum rules. If you need help in the effects department I would like to see what could be done. I'm not talking about high poly models with tons of detail, i was thinking of something like the ones in ff7. Would the ps1 engine be able to handle low poly models such as those? Would you mind if I at least tried it out? If not for ps1, what about PC?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on January 09, 2015, 03:33:26 pm
(This is Toshiko posting as Xifanie because Xifanie's laptop is closer and I am feeling just that lazy right now.)

Replacing 2D sprites with 3D models wouldn't be technically feasible. Aside from requiring a messy hack job to get the game to pull 3D models instead of sprites, not to mention finding space to appropriate animations for said models, you're also running into physical limitations of the hardware. While textures would use less VRAM than sprites, you wouldn't be able to fit models with any sort of detail on screen when coupled with the maps. Even FFVII low-poly no-texture models are asking quite a bit, and would (in our opinion) look worse with the low (256x240) screen resolution regardless. You could afford one or two 3D character models in very low detail on certain maps, but you definitely could not replicate 5 on 5 battles, much less a random battle with a horde of chocobos.

You didn't do anything against the rules, it's just that your suggestion really overestimates the hardware capability by a substantial margin. For some maps, even a battle with two parties of cubes would cause problems. We certainly aren't going to mind you looking into it, of course - the more people poking around at the inner workings of the game the better - but your idea as it stands would only be possible on another platform entirely. You might possibly be able to make it work on PSP (assuming low poly, no texture), but you're running into a host of other problems going that route, not the least of which being that WotL isn't well-documented.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on January 09, 2015, 04:06:07 pm
Quote from: Bladegrasp1997 on January 09, 2015, 11:52:55 am
Hi everyone, I just recently found out about this site through a friend who was playing your modded version.


I have nothing else to add to what Xifiko said. Just wondering what mod you are refering to since we have many of them. FFHacktics is the name of a site, not a mod :P
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on January 09, 2015, 04:40:37 pm
What about porting it to a similar ps1 game? I would suggest front mission 3 because it already uses 3d characters and has the same turn based battle system. Problem is I have no idea how to edit the game files or extract them. If not another ps1 game, I have some experience with visual c++ would that be a good engine for what I'm trying to do? I don't know which mod, but it had new jobs and characters I have never seen before.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on January 09, 2015, 06:43:06 pm
We're probably the wrong people to ask on that one, as I'm not sure if anyone here mods Front Mission 3. If there is a Frontier Mission 3 hacking community, I'd suggest to start there. Otherwise, I'm not even sure if it's a good call to send you to qhimm since they haven't done anything with FFT, either but there are a few there who successfully modded actors (but only on the PC version).
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on May 28, 2015, 06:59:33 pm
What about converting the 3d models to png? Would something like this work?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on May 28, 2015, 07:05:58 pm
Full model not yet textured yet.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 12, 2015, 12:58:10 pm
Still trying.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Cheetah on July 14, 2015, 01:04:52 pm
I'm impressed with your development in doing 3D modeling, that is a useful skill. I'm not seeing a way that you could use them in any kind of mod, but it still makes for good fan art.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 14, 2015, 07:04:52 pm
Thanks, I've tried finding a Front mission 3/Front mission 4 mod to port them to since they have a similar game engine. But so far I've had no luck, I even tried to find a Gladius mod but there is none. For now I'm looking into finding a coder who would know how to start with editing files for those three games, if not I've heard Unity is a good engine to try and make something like this.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 18, 2015, 01:14:58 pm
I was able to get a copy digital copy of front mission 3 and managed to convert it to an ISO. I noticed that the majority of the files BIN. Is this the same file type that FFT uses? If so, would someone be willing to point me in the right direction in showing me how to edit these files?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on July 19, 2015, 12:46:21 am
You can't piecemeal together code from unrelated games any easier than you can make a chicken give birth to an octopus. Yes, they're both animals, and they both live on Earth, but they're as similar in practice as a charcoal grill and a water pump. It's easier to port WotL code to PSX, and even that is Frankenstein's nightmare.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 19, 2015, 10:54:54 am
I'm sorry :|, I don't really know too much about coding and figured someone with more knowledge than myself would know if the files could be unpacked and edited. Good analogies, I had no idea that the coding for both games was so different. I figured since they were both made by square enix and have the same basic battle system that there might be some similarities. If I were to upload the files somewhere would you or maybe someone else be willing to take a look at the coding to see if anything can be done? If not, would a hex editor be useful? I've tried various extractors and modding tools but I cannot seem to open any of the files. As I've stated before I know very little about coding and would just like to see what (if anything) could be done.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on July 19, 2015, 12:53:49 pm
You really don't have ANY idea how difficult modding is, do you?

It's not about "just looking at some code". There's no code: it's compiled. It takes ages to make heads or tails out of it.
It is literally impossible for anyone who doesn't already know the game intimately to figure out anything about it modding wise. You have to know what you're searching for before you have any chance of finding it.

Another thing: Wishful thinking without hard work will never take you anywhere. If you expect someone to do everything for you, you're in for a roller-coaster ride that never goes uphill. I'm not saying this to discourage you, (actually discouraging people sometimes is good because they might attempt the impossible) but unless you're willing to jump head in and revise your expectations, you won't be getting anywhere.

Like that converting into spritesheets thing? Yeah, forget about that. It's actually quite amusing that you think your 3D models would look better than the original sprite art in that format. You also completely ignored the palette restriction and the resolution (which is 256x488 for a regular spritesheet).

Let me put it this way: To us, you are some random guy who's asking us to help you reach the moon when we don't even have a plane able to fly for more than 30 seconds yet, much less a space rocket. Actually, that analogy is bad because we know space travel is possible. Your original idea? That's debatable. Even if it would be possible it would be far too much work for what it's worth. The effort and time you put into making those 3D models? Multiply that by roughly 1000-10000 times and you'll have an idea of how much work you're asking others to put into that project of yours.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 19, 2015, 02:05:19 pm
Like I said, I don't know much about the games coding or formats. I'm just trying to find a starting point. Thank you for taking the time to explain these things to me and letting me know how complicated something like this will be.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 21, 2015, 09:44:44 pm
I may have found a way. This may apply to all ps1 games in general.
http://www.theisozone.com/downloads/playstation/tools/ps1-psx-hack-tools-v20/

BootEdit v2.0b------------------ change the standard logo on the boot screen
CDmage v1.02 -------------------- Working with images without rebuilding
SONY CD-ROM Generator v1.3 ------ Official utility from SONY to create PSX STR-XA discs (need to create ccs files)
Revenge Of StripISO v1.04------- A set of tools for creating PSX-XA RAW (. Bin \. Cue) images of ccs files
CDGenPS2 v3.0------------------- Utility to create a standard iso 2048 PSX \ PS2 homebrew images (no STR \ XA)
CD Image Converter v1.1--------- Program for conversion "curves" of images in RAW PSX-XA
ECCRegen v1.41------------------ utility to regenerate the EDC \ ECC zones PSX images
ePSXe v1.7---------------------- The most common PSX emulator
ePSXeRUS v1.7------------------- Same as ePSXe. Russifitsirovanaya version
ePSXeCutor v1.06---------------- Utility to configure the emulator ePSXe
GRIDFIX v1.0-------------------- Utility for licensing RAW PSX images
Movie Converter v3.4------------ converter AVI \ WAV to STR \ XA and vice versa
Movpack v1.6e------------------- wrapping multi-channel STR \ XA
Munch v1.0---------------------- PSX disassembler
PATCH-IT v2.01------------------ Patching way to work on the console
Pcsx v1.0----------------------- PSX Emulator with trasirovkoy code
PocketISO v2.0------------------ utility for compressing images
PPF-O-Matic v3.0---------------- utility for patching images
PSIcture v1.01------------------ utility to view \ convert images PSX
PSmplay v0.4-------------------- Media Player with the disc PSX
PSound v1.0--------------------- audio player with CDs PSX
PSx CD-Gen v1.5.4--------------- Program for creating images PSX. Analogue CDGENPS2
PSXeven v0.17b------------------ A good PSX emulator
pSX v1.13----------------------- Great emulsion PSX
PSX Game Edit v1.60------------- utility for virtual memory cards
PSX Large Data Ripper v1.04----- Program for ripping games
RSDTOOL v0.8b------------------- Utility to work with RSD files
TIMTOOL v3.0-------------------- Utility to work with TIM files
TIMUTIL v1.36pe----------------- utility to convert BMP to TIM and vice versa
Timviewer v1.03b---------------- Excellent program for pulling out and inserting graphics TIM from any files
Vabtool v0.3-------------------- Editor sound VAB \ SEQ files
VirtualDub v1.8.8--------------- Driving in uncompressed AVI AVI Movie Converter for program
XB Value Calculator v1.3-------- utility to calculate the value of scan code joystick PSX \ N64
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on July 21, 2015, 10:26:47 pm
Awesome! So, now all you need to do is redraw every map to reduce the number of triangles per second, reduce the texture quality of every map texture in the game to free up enough VRAM for your character model textures, conjure up enough space for your modifications, rewrite the game engine to use 3D objects rather than sprites, implement animation routines for your character models, and then you're home free!

Edit: I'm not saying this for the sake of being sarcastic, but because you're making yourself work exponentially harder than you need to. For 1/10,000th the effort, you could accomplish what you really want by just making a new game from scratch. Even making a new PlayStation game from scratch would be so much easier. You do not want to do this as a mod, you really do not. You don't even want to go borrowing code, because you're just boxing yourself into a very restrictive corner, trying to write a novel in haiku.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 21, 2015, 10:44:33 pm
Thank you ;), I had no idea where to begin after finding a way to edit the files. I figured it would take me way longer to figure out what needed to be done. Are there any tutorials on editing or redrawing the maps? Front Mission 3 already uses 3d models for cut scenes so there might not be that much coding work. I already know a coder who might be able to work with the engine. And I'm already pretty good at animations, I might even be able to use the wanzer animations from the game.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on July 21, 2015, 10:53:51 pm
I spent too long editing my post, or I would have replied instead. I'd honestly suggest learning a programming language first and foremost. C++, Python, pretty much anything but Java (I kid, but I'm also serious). Try messing around in Game Maker. It's really better to start from there before you try doing anything on PlayStation, just to have a better understanding of data structure and form. Extensive console mods really need a strong understanding of the basics and theory of programming, especially in proper code conventions of the console in question.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on July 22, 2015, 07:43:16 am
I have a little knowledge of Visual C++ and I'm still learning as I go along(Though it mainly deals with character animations). I will try Game Maker. I really appreciate the advice, Thanks.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 10, 2015, 02:17:12 pm
Possible game engine. Main obstacle would be coding. Still looking into python and c++ to see if it could be used to implement a turn based battle system in Blender.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sENyBeweaUc
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Nyzer on August 10, 2015, 04:54:38 pm
Is this topic about trying to port FFT over a new game engine AND changing all the character models from sprites to 3D?

You would have better luck just remaking FFT from scratch. I mean at that point it's not a "mod" project so much as literally developing a new game.

And if you want to know how involved that is, just check out the credits to FFIII DS.

I really don't want to crap on your hopes here but this is like watching someone write a story, then say "okay the hard part's done, now turning it into a game should be easy!"

Coding isn't the "main obstacle". It's the foundation, the core of what you want to do. You're trying to paint a house before the ground has even been dug out before laying the foundation to build it.
Or to build a car from scratch when all you've got are a couple wheels and no knowledge of engines.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 10, 2015, 05:50:54 pm
Not porting, remaking it all together from scratch. I know it's not a short term project. The engine has existing python scripts as well as others that can be imported to try what I have in mind. There are many "homemade games" that have been made by one person for this engine including a number of turn based rpg's. The 3D aspect of this(models,level design,animations) will be the easy part since I am already familiar with working in that area. I say "main obstacle" because I'm still learning the basic functions of C++ and other coding used for games. I don't see you as crapping on my hopes at all but as giving realistic and useful advice. Even if it doesn't work, I still figure the knowledge gained would be useful for future projects or at the very least I can say I tried.   
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Nyzer on August 10, 2015, 09:28:57 pm
Fair enough.

I'd recommend starting off with just reimagining some of the more important fights in FFT, no worrying about the job system/world map/items until later.

Seeing the Orbonne Monastery battle in 3D, even on a different engine, would be pretty neat. And that still sounds like a lot of work, but far more doable as a starting point.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 13, 2015, 10:16:12 am
That does sound like a very good starting point. I was actually going to try to start off with the battle system but I think getting actual level designs would be better. Is there a way to get the texture mapping from the level itself? Not just the floor mapping, but the building and landscape textures? I would like to make it as close to original as possible so that nothing is too high poly. If not I can get some textures off google. Thanks for the suggestion. :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVUPQcahOBg
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Cheetah on August 13, 2015, 11:32:34 am
Go to the main page and hit Tools. You will want to use Ganesha to get level textures.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on August 13, 2015, 12:23:37 pm
Or here (http://gomtuu.org/fft/Ganesha/) for direct link and instructions.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 13, 2015, 03:56:22 pm
Actually, the Ganesha ones are greyscale. For the color textures export them with map2gl and load them into blender.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 10:44:17 am
I tried extracting the map folder with magicISO and universalextractor, but every time I get an error telling me the file is locked or it cannot be extracted. I've tried extracting the folder with the ECM file converted to a BIN as well as an ISO but I still get the same "file is locked" message. Does the file need to be in a specific format to extract the folders?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Kaijyuu on August 15, 2015, 12:36:03 pm
Do you have the file open in any other programs?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 15, 2015, 12:50:24 pm
Use CDMage B5 or CDProg
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 04:38:05 pm
The file is not open in any other program. I converted the original ecm file to an iso and tried CDmageB5. I keep getting this message. Does this mean that the ecm file I have is corrupted? CDProg will not open the iso file at all. When I hit Yes I can see all the folders but they are empty when extracted.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 15, 2015, 04:49:29 pm
You just need to hit yes...

ECM is not a useable file... You need to use ECMTools to UNECM the file into a .BIN cuz that is how em------ise stores their files... I'd say you are in way over your head here, but it's already been said many times.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 05:55:33 pm
Your 100% right, I have very little know how when it comes to converting files and attempting something like this. This is a whole new territory for me. I should have mentioned that I converted the ecm to a BIN file as well as an ISO. I tried both on both programs. So what your saying is that I need to unecm the ecm file then convert it to a  BIN? Like I said I'm not familiar with file converters.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 06:03:31 pm
Here's what I'm getting. When I extract the map folder it shows up at the designation but is empty.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 15, 2015, 06:16:42 pm
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/CDMage.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/logo.png)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/2samon6.jpg)
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 06:31:25 pm
Yes, I am a noob who has no idea what he's doing. I'll just get the textures from google. Thank you for helping me thus far.  :)
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on August 15, 2015, 06:34:03 pm
.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 15, 2015, 06:42:06 pm
(https://tcrf.net/images/d/dc/FFT-Debug5.png)
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 15, 2015, 08:02:34 pm
Thanks guys, I appreciate you going out of your way to help me.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 16, 2015, 07:18:41 pm
I may not have to create new levels after all. I was planning on making new HD levels but it is very possible to port all the original levels to another engine. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, I don't think I would have even tried this if not for the suggestions. :o
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on August 16, 2015, 07:26:00 pm
Glad you got it exported! Keep that motivation up.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 16, 2015, 10:18:52 pm
Thanks. If a new level is created using existing pieces from other levels, would the game be able to handle loading textures from two or more different uv maps? I'd like to see if I can make some new levels that you would be able to use. I probably should have asked if new levels can even be added first but I'm assuming that can be done.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on August 16, 2015, 11:15:49 pm
Not sure what you mean by multiple UV maps, but much like characters and abilities, maps can only be replaced, not added. Maps are also subject to an object limit; too many polygons, and the map won't load at all. Ganesha also can be kinda finicky and break things in strange and unusual ways, but there have been a few from-scratch custom maps made.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 16, 2015, 11:51:54 pm
Say I took a barrel from the tavern and added it to another level. Would the game be able to load the barrels original texture mapping or would it use the level texture that it was imported to? So it's possible to replace all maps with new ones as long they fall into the maps polygon limit?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 17, 2015, 12:34:51 am
Each map for FFT uses 1 UV map with multiple textures (mostly for color.) Depending on the maps state. Each map has its own texture. If you wanted a barrel you'd need it to be on the texture sheet for that map.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 17, 2015, 08:10:22 am
Ok, if I used an object from a different level it would have to be remapped with textures from the current level? What is the polygon limit for creating maps? Does each map have a set amout depending on the level it will be replacing? If a map is exported and converted from obj. to another format then edited using existing polygons and converted back to obj., can it be put back in the game?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 17, 2015, 09:09:09 am
I cant answer all of those. You need to play around with importing/exporting from Ganesha to figure it out.

There is more info on Gomtuu's site.

Type Ganesha map editor for FFT and it should come up in google.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 17, 2015, 10:31:55 am
Thanks, hopefully I can create something you can use in the future. 
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 17, 2015, 10:33:10 am
I look forward to it.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 17, 2015, 03:45:35 pm
Is Gomtuu still active in the forums?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 17, 2015, 03:49:51 pm
Not for many many years
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 18, 2015, 07:02:53 pm
I can add new panels and import edited PNG files for new UV textures. I cannot import maps created or edited from other 3d modeling programs. Are there any pictures of the new levels that have been made? I recently saw Tethical, would they know anything about importing 3d files into Ganesha? Better yet, would they be interested in making a level editor with all 3d objects and terrain from every level?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 18, 2015, 08:04:10 pm
There haven't really been all that many custom maps. Kokojo has made a few, but I don't have pictures of them.

Here are some of the map edits I've done:


Tree Map: Twinees for Tree Stump lighting, Xifanie for making it work in game without overwriting the original map.
Office: Twinees for chair removal
Boats: Xifanie for making it work in game and a ton of tips and help, Lirmont for making a ganesha addon for copy/paste


(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/PIX/Side%20By%20Side2.png)

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53561892/SwampMapEdit.png)
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 18, 2015, 09:20:29 pm
The sea battle looks cool, how did you clone the ship in ganesha? I can add polygon's but cannot clone full objects without exporting it out to another program. Is Kokojo still active?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 18, 2015, 09:44:49 pm
I did it one polygon at a time. It took over a month. This wasn't an easy process.

Kokojo is not really active, no
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 18, 2015, 10:38:43 pm
So you had to change the Tex. Page and Tex Palette number for each new polygon you added. How did you rotate the polygons for the sales and mast?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 18, 2015, 11:50:04 pm
Look in the tutorial section I made a tutorial for using the add on to copy/paste.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 19, 2015, 10:10:20 am
Got it, thanks man. Does anyone have any levels they would like to be made or edited? I've seen the Alucard sprite and I'm going to try to make a few levels based on SOTN just to try and get a little more familiar with Ganesha. Thanks again for helping me.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 19, 2015, 10:20:58 am
If you successfully find a way to make maps easily in Ganesha, then yes, I will think up some ideas, lol.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 20, 2015, 12:19:58 am
I managed to do this in an hour.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 20, 2015, 12:26:15 am
O_o how?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 20, 2015, 01:04:27 am
Using the clone method in Ganesha. I'm familiar with other 3d programs so using the XYZ buttons was easy and made it possible to quickly place them where I wanted. I think I should have tried a different level with more objects so there would have been more to work with. I still need to try editing the levels after importing different textures for the maps. What is the biggest map that has been made? 15x15?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on August 20, 2015, 02:07:40 am
A map can support up to 255 tiles (or was it 256? I have to be misremembering) and as many elevated tiles. You can just resize the map (1x256, 16x16, 256x1; anything really), there's a function for that in Ganesha. Just remember that what you use in textures, you have to sacrifice in polygons and vice-versa. So you should always pick first a map that has just the right amount of texture files you need, because no one really knows how to edit that stuff after the fact.

And that is some damn impressive work for a first timer. I just needed to point out the restrictions first before you end up working hours on a map and not have half the polygons load in-game.

Another warning: Tiles are 28x28 right? Never have a polygon larger than that; it creates some graphical glitches at the edge of said polygons.

You're really going to have to rework that palette though :p
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on August 20, 2015, 02:42:31 am
That is really impressive map work o.o
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 20, 2015, 09:40:04 am
Thanks :o. I was going to replace the whole map texture using an edited one but I think setting them to the right palette would be better. I used 6x24(originally 6x12) for the map because I wanted to try to make the center and left side of the arena while keeping the 2d aspect that Sotn levels have. I don't plan on making map sizes on the 256 level, maybe just adding a little more detail to the regular maps.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 20, 2015, 09:51:32 am
keep in mind that whatever you edit (especially in a map that has random battles) on the texture, and palette, you will also have to do for every state that map has, by pressing [ ] buttons to load the other states. For texture, you can simply import the same texture into every state, but for the palette, you will need to manually enter RGB for all 16 colors in the palette for every state.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 20, 2015, 08:44:25 pm
I guess I should just stick to editing the poly's for now then. I will try working on a few more before I start with importing textures. Is there a way to add rain or snow in Ganesha? Or is that done by event editing?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on August 21, 2015, 02:19:33 am
Rain and snow are activated either using an event instruction or by using a setting in the attack.out editor. Note that whether a map has rain or snow is predetermined, and a map with snow has different levels of snowstorm, while a map without snow has different levels of thunderstorm. You can't switch it as far as I know. Maybe someone experienced could figure it out though :P
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 21, 2015, 02:22:47 am
Snow / Rain are determined by the states of the map. Though I have no idea how to actually change them.

Event commands only activate what is already there. Same with attack.out
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 21, 2015, 08:57:19 am
The best way to have a rain/snow mission would be to edit a level where it is already set? Like the Beowulf missions or Orbonne? Here's an update to the arena map. Now that I've gotten a better understanding of the controls in Ganesha I might use another map with more objects. Maybe one that doesn't have as many texture palettes so that importing textures would be a little easier.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on August 21, 2015, 08:35:04 pm
That map looks awesome dude.

Let me explain weather a bit better (maybe).

Every map has one of the two possible conditions you can activate, rain or snow (and varying degrees of that, including none which is like just sunlight), very few maps have snow (zeakden, the beowoulf ones... one or two more?) every other map without snow on the ground has rain. Even buildings. And inside the deep dungeon. The different states are very easy to activate if you want, but if it's in a building like this one, you don't need to worry about editing other states because when does it rain inside?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: gatebuster202 on August 22, 2015, 12:15:57 am
Uh, *Drops dead, nearby priest cast Raise 2*

I'm back. Uh, damn... Bladegrasp. Wow man. That's just awesome. You rock.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 22, 2015, 12:38:01 am
So in regards to effects on the map everything is done using event instructions. Does this include animating polygons? Thanks.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 22, 2015, 02:59:03 am
What do you mean?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 22, 2015, 10:37:53 am
Like when fighting Gafgarion you can step on a certain panel allowing a gate to be raised. Can poly's be scripted to move or rotate like the propeller in the Goug level? Or like the windmill when you first fight Wiegraf?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 22, 2015, 01:21:29 pm
I don't know how the field/animated objects are coded, sorry. They are -ACTIVATED- via event (or attack.out). But no, the ability to do so is certainly stored in the map files themselves somewhere.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 22, 2015, 06:56:18 pm
I'm able to see the animations when I export them to other modeling programs but have no way of adding them back to Ganesha. Here's the completed level, I still need to fix the textures but I think some of them actually look good out of place. Not sure what files need to be uploaded so I just zipped the MAP004.GNS file. If there are more files that need to be uploaded please let me know which ones.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on August 22, 2015, 07:36:56 pm
Sadly, I don't believe there's a way. And with gomtuu gone... I don't see how the functionality could be added. :/
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 23, 2015, 07:13:37 pm
Well, that sux.  I'm pretty sure the answer to this question is No, but does anyone have any idea how I might be able to contact him? If not, since Ganesha uses python scripts would someone who understands python coding be able to add the function?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on August 23, 2015, 07:20:42 pm
Many have tried, all have failed. If not for his site still being online, it would really seem like he vanished off the face of the Earth.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on August 23, 2015, 07:24:55 pm
You would need more than an understanding of python, you'd need to know quite a bit about the map files themselves to edit in that kind of functionality.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 26, 2015, 10:17:54 am
I guess I can focus on making use of the current state of the program. Thank you for the advice and information, I never thought I would get this far concerning what I originally had in mind. If anyone would like some custom maps I'd be glad to help.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 26, 2015, 10:23:45 am
I want all the custom maps.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 26, 2015, 12:09:47 pm
What kind of stuff do you have in mind? Do you have any concept art or current levels you want customized?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: gatebuster202 on August 26, 2015, 03:16:13 pm
Quote from: Bladegrasp1997 on August 26, 2015, 12:09:47 pm
What kind of stuff do you have in mind? Do you have any concept art or current levels you want customized?


Bladegrasp. Anything you make would be awesome for all of us. We have been running the same maps since we started playing Tactics 17 years ago. Now Elric probably ha something's in mind for his super awesome project.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on August 31, 2015, 05:22:39 am
I go have a couple things in mind, I'd just need to get them laid out in a coherent manner lol. I saw the one you showed Jumza. You should post it here. It's looking really nice. Have you messed with textures at all yet? It's not to bad at all really. Especially if you are just reusing ones that exist in that map.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on August 31, 2015, 10:30:17 pm
I havn't tried importing textures yet. I'm still trying to get the hang of editing poly's. Here's the map I'm making for Jumza. There's still a lot more editing to do, but I like the way it's going so far.
http://postimg.org/image/g8occc9rv/
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on August 31, 2015, 10:32:11 pm
I like the way it's going as well :) Great job so far!
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on September 01, 2015, 12:48:45 am
Thanks, glad you like it Jumza :v/:. I'm still working creating levels that are based on SOTN. Problem is trying to find maps that are similar texture wise.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on December 29, 2015, 06:29:23 pm
Still trying to learn how to code, here's a tutorial on isometric levels. I'm not sure but I think FFT uses similar coding? If not I figure it might be useful for a reference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go1qrWFw_bs
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on March 20, 2016, 01:09:52 pm
A couple of completed maps made using ganesha.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on March 20, 2016, 01:26:44 pm
Not bad! I'm actually impressed, even.

On the first map, chimney at the far right has a polygon that's a bit oversized. I'm really intrigued by the library, though - that's some cool stuff.

Also, to capture just the window you have focus on, use Alt+PrintScreen to save yourself the effort of cropping.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on March 20, 2016, 01:59:26 pm
Thanks, I couldn't find another tile the same size as rest of the chimney. I'll try to lower it enough so that it blends in to the roof. I think I may have added too many poly's for the library because when i try to open it in ganesha there's tons of missing faces. It seems to work fine for map2gl. Is there a limit to how many faces can be added?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Angel on March 20, 2016, 03:11:49 pm
There's a limit, yeah, but it seems to be an arbitrary limit based on map location. You won't know you hit it until it either breaks in Ganesha or crashes the game.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on March 20, 2016, 09:44:09 pm
Looks great man! These map edits are really creative! Have you tested them in game?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on March 20, 2016, 10:05:05 pm
I don't know that he would be able to currently as I'm sure they go over the sector/size limit of the original map. You can see the sector limit increase or decrease when you save the map in ganesha.

To my knowledge having too many will actually not crash ganesha, but you won't see most of the map in game or it'll flat out crash the game when the map is used.

However this is really good work so far, hoping to see more from you soon!
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on March 21, 2016, 08:59:49 am
Thanks guys, I have not tested them yet. Map27 loads fine in ganesha so I think I would be able to use that one. I will have to redo the library map because every time I reopen it in ganesha it loads with more missing faces.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on March 21, 2016, 09:58:49 am
What do you mean by missing 'faces'? Can you post a picture please?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on March 21, 2016, 11:16:23 am
I meant missing polygons, I think adding a second floor is what overloaded the limit.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on March 21, 2016, 10:46:09 pm
I finally got it to load without anything missing in ganesha. I had to remove the book cases. Here's another edited map. In order to test them in game I would have to play through until I get to the level or could I just rename it as another level that appears in the early missions?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Xifanie on March 21, 2016, 10:59:15 pm
Props to your previous edits (they're great, could just use some texture improvements). But having a full ceiling makes a map completely impractical for battles... you would never be able to rotate the camera to see what's going on, where you're walking, what you're attacking...

As far as testing is concerned, you would need to use a spreadsheet I haven't finished to move/resize files around the ISO if the filesize is greater than the original amount of sectors allocated, or by doing it yourself through hex editing and creating a new file with cdprog. You could then use the World Debug (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=10151.0).
If your number of polygons on the new map would be about the same or slightly higher, you should still be able to import it into an unaltered ISO.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on April 06, 2016, 04:04:32 pm
Thanks :cool:, I wanted to see if it would prevent the jump ability from being used and to try and simulate a close quarters feel. Here's a couple more test maps. If anyone has any suggestions for edits or would like some custom levels I'd be glad to help. Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Jumza on April 06, 2016, 05:06:48 pm
Dude that hospital map edit is so sick! Really excellent work! The roof's are an interesting idea, it could work if you made it a bit higher? Not sure, maybe experiment with it some more.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on April 06, 2016, 05:19:49 pm
Good job man, I'm really digging that Hospital map, the only thing that seems a bit rough to me currently is the boxes, since it seems too repetitive, though that's not too hard a fix, it's really a lighting issue more than anything negative that you've done, you're doing quite well with keeping the textures themselves from looking like copies of the same tile, especially on the second map. Keep that up!

If you'd be interested, I could probably think up a few ideas for maps you could make for us that would be used in Jot5, however, we would have to discuss that in private.


Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on April 06, 2016, 10:27:58 pm
Thanks, I really didn't have much wooden textures to work with so I thought the crates would suit the "slum" theme of the level. I was going to use the carpeted tile but it looked horrible combined with the wooden sides. Most definitely interested in helping out with Journey of the 5. Let me know where to start.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on October 22, 2016, 05:23:44 pm
Not much of an update, but I was able to add levels exported from Ganesha to GameMaker Studio using this tutorial and an extension called P3DC.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P12LpVJd4yE
I've even managed to add 3d models and animations. The main obstacle is figuring out a turn based system for a 3d environment in GMS. I tried, but the only tutorials that seem to be out there are for 2d games.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on October 22, 2016, 07:18:57 pm
You should download the updated Ganesha here:

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=11483.0

It is actually in color now, so you don't have to do the workaround you did when you made that map for me, as the workaround breaks the map for ingame use.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on October 22, 2016, 08:30:02 pm
I'll try it out. I guess the map wasn't usable then?
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: 3lric on October 22, 2016, 08:43:49 pm
Unfortunately, it was not :/

I've been working towards remaking it. The thing is that FFT can be pretty finicky when it comes to how stuff is done, so once workarounds start being used, things often stop playing nicely
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on April 08, 2017, 01:32:31 pm
Another Update: I switched engines, what took me months to do in Gamemaker Studio took me a couple weeks to learn in Unity. Hopefully progress will continue.
Turnbased with 3d Elmdor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-h2jbICQYU

Tutorial that I followed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYeTW2Zr8NA&list=PLbghT7MmckI55gwJLrDz0UtNfo9oC0K1Q

Sorry for the late response, I could not get the new version of Ganesha to open on WIN7.
Title: Re: Replace animated game sprites with 3d models?
Post by: Bladegrasp1997 on February 16, 2019, 04:18:49 pm
New Update
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxA2-BSwLeU&feature=youtu.be&ab