Token Transformers 2 thread... [Spoilers!!!]

[Vanya]

It was also lame how he was basically murdered without firing a single shot at an autobot or human.
And you KNOW Ravage wouldn't go down like such a punk, either. Rly!? Ripped in half by BUMBLEBEE!?! GTFO.

[DarthPaul]

Exactly this is a "clusterfuck by the Autobots" movie. If that had really been Sideways the minute he was found his Decepticon logo would have flipped to an Autobot one, and then he would have ratted out another Decepticon while he snuck away to snipe off the Autobots in question.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

1) Fallen is not a lone lame ass robot that is easily dealt with by a single transformer. In the series, Fallen is a huge machine planet, and Optimus Prime wouldn't beat him 1v1 in his wildest dreams

2) There is only ONE Prime at once, and when The Prime is going to die he passes on the Matrix of Leadership (shown in the movie as something entirely different and re-purposed) to the one who will become the next Prime. There is no such thing this BS idea of the "7 Primes" or whatever

3) Optimus Prime and Megatron are NOT brothers, and they are NOT related

4) Some other major inconsistencies with the original Transformers storyline, but then again, what do you expect

Optimus Prime and Megatron are brothers?  When did they say that?

As for the other 3 points, when you revision a storyline, you revision a storyline.  Unless you are completely off, like switching the roles of Megatron and Optimus or not involving transforming at all, it's fair game.  

Well, unless the movie makers say that they are gonna stay completely true to the storyline.  And they would also have to say to which storyline they are staying true: the comic, the cartoon, the new cartoon, Generation 2, or whatever.

[Vanya]

At the end of the first movie: Optimus:  "You left me no choice, bother."
In this movies: The Fallen: [paraphrase]"You were betrayed by your brother, as I was by mine."

There being more than one Prime is a major difference as most of the comics, cartoons, etc. stick to this convention. It also diminishes Optimus' importance if there are other Primes. Didn't like it the new cartoon, don't like it here. The "no morphing" rule is simply ridiculous and a huge difference from most everything else. And like many of the changes made in these movies it is completely unnecessary.

Just because the movie makers don't say that they are sticking closely to the source material doesn't mean they should mostly ignore it. I'm really sick of Hollywood trashing the source material in remakes in order to 'make it their own' and then making seemingly arbitrary changes.

Take Ironhide; would it have killed them or taken anything away from the film to also make him a Hummer like Ratchet and given him a maroon paint-job? In one stroke they would have given a nod to the G1 fans, still had a GM plug, and reduced production costs by eliminating the need to create an entirely different transformer. Was it necessary to give him a completely different accent? Did they have to disparage the old fans by physically smashing a yellow VW Beetle?

Yes I'm an 80's kid. I grew up watching Transformers every day after school and it is sad when the G1 cartoon has a deeper, more consistent plot than a modern Hollywood film.

[Archael]

1) Fallen is not a lone lame ass robot that is easily dealt with by a single transformer. In the series, Fallen is a huge machine planet, and Optimus Prime wouldn't beat him 1v1 in his wildest dreams

2) There is only ONE Prime at once, and when The Prime is going to die he passes on the Matrix of Leadership (shown in the movie as something entirely different and re-purposed) to the one who will become the next Prime. There is no such thing this BS idea of the "7 Primes" or whatever

3) Optimus Prime and Megatron are NOT brothers, and they are NOT related

4) Some other major inconsistencies with the original Transformers storyline, but then again, what do you expect

Optimus Prime and Megatron are brothers?  When did they say that?

As for the other 3 points, when you revision a storyline, you revision a storyline.  Unless you are completely off, like switching the roles of Megatron and Optimus or not involving transforming at all, it's fair game.

it would be fair game if the movie didn't suck

it's fine to adjust lore to fit the cinema movie format and make something amazing

it's not fine to make your own lore and then make something subpar imo

by the way... The Fallen going from a planet sized machine to a gundam is pretty hilarious, and is not fair game

[DarthPaul]

Did they have to disparage the old fans by physically smashing a yellow VW Beetle?

Please for the love of god say that that Beetle isn't Ironhide.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

Funny you should mention Gundam, Archie, because it's the perfect example of several revisionings of an idea.

Back to the brothers comment, I just assumed it was meant as a metaphor, like saying all transformers are brothers.  And it's not like the robots have sex; we've seen that they are "born" in a hive type setting in this version.  So saying that two bees are related doesn't mean that really would know each other well or even born anywhere near the same time.

I feel like I'm trying to White Knight Transformers 2, when I thought is was just okay.  What I am trying to White Knight is the idea of revisioning stories.

[Vanya]

@Voldemort: I agree with all of that.

@DP: Bumblebee was a yellow bug in G1. They could easily have made him into any of a number of sub-compact hatchbacks like in the new cartoon & that would have been fine. They could have used the Camaro for another autobot.

@KS: I wish that was what they meant. In fact that was how I was taking it until the comments in RotF.

[DarthPaul]

Oh I get what your saying on that subject. On that note too I feel that the Camaro should have been Hot Rod. It would have given them a trump card for killing Optimus and still being able to make movies that are true to G1.

[Archael]

You can white knight the idea of revisioning stories, that's fine by me. The problem here is that in Transformers 2 they did a lot more than just revisions. They basically introduced entirely new concepts into the storyline that simply didn't exist before.  That is not just a revision. The fact that it doesn't add (but actually detracts) from the final product makes it even worse, too.

I'll concede that making The Fallen a smaller scale and completely altering it's design might have been a "revision" to make it easier to model and fit within the story, fine. But the tomb of the 7 primes, the 7 primes themselves, the whole re-positioning of the Leadership Matrix as some energy source when in reality that's never what it was... that is just unnecessary BS. I'm wasn't even a huge transformers fan as a kid, so someone who knows even more than me about the original lore surely can bring up even worse examples.

[DarthPaul]

At least it isn't as bad as Transformer the animated series. That is horrible.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

But the tomb of the 7 primes, the 7 primes themselves, the whole re-positioning of the Leadership Matrix as some energy source when in reality that's never what it was... that is just unnecessary BS. I'm wasn't even a huge transformers fan as a kid, so someone who knows even more than me about the original lore surely can bring up even worse examples.

I agree about the primes.  The whole idea of being "prime" kinda goes out the window when there is more than one prime.  I don't see a problem with the tomb, aside from the primes themselves.  Technically, the Matrix's primary purpose wasn't to be an energon source but rather to be a key to energon harvesters, but your point still stands.  It only symbolized leadership this times around.

[Archael]

megan fox waist

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

Agreed.

[DarthPaul]

Well I'm going to see it tomorrow, also getting a Sideways figure. Damn my eyes.

[Vanya]

(From the Transformers wiki:)
At the dawn of time, Primus created the Thirteen original Transformers to crew his planetary form into battle against his eternal nemesis Unicron. One of these 13, his original name now lost to the mists of time, turned against his siblings and his creator and betrayed them all.

As Vector Prime was constructed to safeguard time and space, this Transformer's function was to oversee the primal force of entropy, the aging and dissolution of order in this universe as presage to a new creation. However, this guardian of entropy became obsessed with the darker side of chaos and death, and in the black place these urges led him, the traitor found a new god, more suited to his nature. He turned against Primus and became The Fallen.

Now he is a being of power, darkness, and absolute dedication to Unicron. At the end of the first battle between the two beings, for his treachery, The Fallen was sealed into extradimensional limbo along with his new master.

[Asmo X]

What do primus and the fallen transform into?

[DarthPaul]

What do primus and the fallen transform into?

Primus's body is Cybertron.


I like Vector Primes appearance in Armada.


EDIT: Double checked The Fallen transforms into a tank.

[Havermayer]

http://www.spoonyexperiment.com/2009/06 ... en-review/

Spoony's review.  He puts it on the same level as Battlefield Earth.

[Archael]

http://www.spoonyexperiment.com/2009/06/25/transformers-revenge-of-the-fallen-review/

Spoony's review.  He puts it on the same level as Battlefield Earth.

awesome review

I haven't watched all of it but I absolutely agree with everything they've said so far, especially about the jumble visual mess that is created in transformer battles