FFT Arena: Balance Discussion Thread

[The Damned]

No need to apologize when you have a point.

As it stands now, at the very least, the elimination of a necessary Faith total makes magical, spell-based units, much less teams, innately weaker, especially since Geomancers and Samurai (and, to a much less extent, Mediators) can utilize MA without any of the hassle of charge time or MP costs or avoidance and Concentrate pretty much shores up everything else on the physical end.

[Shade]

Should all healing spells that have holy as element to be changed since absorb is halved?

[philsov]

......is there anything that actually absorbs Holy in the first place?

I like Cure being holy elemental, as it allows for boosting via equips.

[Shade]

excalibur and chameleon robe

[FFMaster]

Yeah, they will lose Holy element.

[FFMaster]

Proposed changes to Equip X. Mostly similar to Skip's, but I changed it a bit. Agree/disagree?

Equip Sword -> Equip Sword/Knife/Ninja Sword (Equip Light Blade)
Equip Axe -> Equip Axe/Knightsword/Katana (Equip Heavy Blade)
Equip Spear -> Equip Spear/Pole (Equip Polearm)
Equip Bow -> Equip Bow/Crossbow/Gun (Equip Ranged)
Equip Gun -> Equip Rod/Staff/Book (Equip Magegear)
Equip Armor -> Unchanged
Equip Knife -> Equip Clothes/Hats/Robes (Equip Clothes)
Equip Shield -> Unchanged

[Pride]

Agreed.  A much better change imo.

I haven't looked at the tables but always a good thing to look to see if any of these are impossible.

[FFMaster]

Yeah, these are all possible. Robes couldn't be put with Rods, so I moved it to Clothes/Hats. Anyway, I've tested it and it works perfectly.

[Zaen]

Huh, those actually seem perfect for what I would require, except for the Katana, Guns, and Ninja Swords...(took them out/changed them into something else)

They are much more broad, so they give more use as supports. I approve.

[Kaz]

same, i likey

[CT5Holy]

I assume the new Equip X abilities will be moved around (where appropriate) and JP costs adjusted?
Either way, it looks good.

[Melancthon]

I have wanted "Equip Stick" forever.  I can't wait to try it on a Samurai.  Some of these might end up being OP, but perhaps not with the new balancing.  Equip Cloths Lancers and Samurai have potential.  Anyway, I love the idea and look forward to trying them out!

[Gaignun]

I have another suggestion that's slightly more benign.  Can the JP cost on stat recovery items be lowered to, say, 80 apiece?  This will allow item users to be on status duty without feeling the JP crunch.  Expanding recovery options will help once monsters hit the field.

[FFMaster]

I will reduce the more expensive ones, but not to 80. 80 JP to cure Don't Move/Dont Act? Curing Zombie is much more powerful than curing Poison.

I was thinking

Echo Grass - 80 JP
Maiden's Kiss - 120 JP
Soft - 130 JP
Holy Water - 300 JP
Bandage - 250 JP

EDIT: And yes, removal of minimum Faith has had a huge impact on the metagame. With monsters entering the fray, I think the standard would probably become 40 Faith for every unit. Time to dust off Ninja skillset and put it on Paladin I guess.

EDIT2:
Class/Skill changes list so far
- Paladins can now equip Axes and Katanas
- Archers can now equip Guns
- Thieves can now equip Swords
- Lancers can now equip Poles
- All Cure spells, Raise 1/2 and Fairy lose Holy Element
- Meatbone Slash moves to Samurai(from Monk)
- Steal Heart no longer requires opposite gender
- Equip X reworked
   Equip Sword -> Equip Sword/Knife/Ninja Sword (Equip Light Blade - Thief, 350JP)
   Equip Axe -> Equip Axe/Knightsword/Katana (Equip Heavy Blade - Paladin, 400JP)
   Equip Spear -> Equip Spear/Pole (Equip Polearm - Lancer, 350JP)
   Equip Bow -> Equip Bow/Crossbow/Gun (Equip Ranged - Archer, 400JP)
   Equip Gun -> Equip Rod/Staff/Book (Equip Magegear - Scholar, 250JP)
   Equip Knife -> Equip Clothes/Hats/Robes (Equip Clothes - Squire, 250JP)
   Equip Armor -> Unchanged
   Equip Shield -> Unchanged

[Skip Sandwich]

I am liking all of these proposed changes, especially the proposal to add some sort of inverse-faith Inquisition style ability to the paladin skillset, speaking of which...

Inquisition: Range 4, AoE 0, deals (100-Cfaith) * (100-Tfaith) * PA * 20 non-elemental damage, CT 0, MP cost 10

The ninja justus already deal inverse faith elemental damage, and as such have a higher damage potential with elemental boosting, so I think the paladin inverse faith ability should be non-elemental for reliability at the cost of damage.

Also, does anybody else think that Dia would be a little better if it were either moved to the Priest or used the elemental damage formula?

[Shade]

I will reduce the more expensive ones, but not to 80. 80 JP to cure Don't Move/Dont Act? Curing Zombie is much more powerful than curing Poison.

I was thinking

Echo Grass - 80 JP
Maiden's Kiss - 120 JP
Soft - 130 JP
Holy Water - 300 JP
Bandage - 250 JP

Stigma magic 100 jp, Heals Ptrf, Conf, Brsk, Sil, Blnd, Frog, Psn, Slp, DA, DM

Esuna 280 jp, heals same as stigma magic

Vampire and zombie are status only from chemist and should be only one that costs that much, bandage could be still be halve less man.

Also, does anybody else think that Dia would be a little better if it were either moved to the Priest or used the elemental damage formula?

I had priests with dia they did 150 damage on neutral and 70 to 70 faith. Easy way to kill 70 faith units. Sadly now that elemental absorb are halved, cause I was using it as healing method(paladins with excalibur). It was 6 range 150 hp heal instanly.

[FFMaster]

But remember, Stigma has 0 vert and no range. Esuna has a charge time, which really hurts it when healing DM/DA. I've seen units get healed of DM/DA from Esuna after they move way too many times.

[Shade]

Remember DA takes 1-2 turns to stop. Item also has no range unless you give throw item(250 jp more) or have unit as chemist. Also remember that stigma magic is aoe not single target. I have seen esuna do instant heals and it's aoe too. Finally both of them heal all those status instead of one or 2.

Item skill set takes too much jp to begin with(x-pot, hi-ether, maiden's kiss, soft, holy water, bandage, pd 1500 jp[at the moment]). So why is bandage still so damm high jp?

[ffta707]

It seems like Squire's C-EV should be a tad lower. I'm not sure why though. It would seem more right with the other growths.

[FFMaster]

BETA124 Changelog

Code Select Expand

GENERAL
- All equipment done with text editting


JOBS
- Paladins can now equip Axes and Katanas
- Archers can now equip Guns
- Thieves can now equip Swords
- Lancers can now equip Poles
- Ninja gains 1 PA
- Mime reaction changed to Counter Flood

SKILLS
- Chemist Skill JP costs changed(most skills around 80-150 JP)
- Cure 3 now 250 JP
- Cure 4 now 350 JP
- Raise 2 now 300 JP
- Holy now 500 JP
- Level 2 black magic now 120 JP
- Level 3 black magic now 190 JP
- Level 4 Black magic now 260 JP
- Death now 400 JP
- Flare now 550 JP
- All Cure spells, Raise 1/2 and Fairy lose Holy Element
- Meatbone Slash moves to Samurai(from Monk)
- Steal Heart no longer requires opposite gender
- Equip X reworked
Equip Sword -> Equip Sword/Knife/Ninja Sword (Equip Light Blade - Thief, 350JP)
Equip Axe -> Equip Axe/Knightsword/Katana (Equip Heavy Blade - Paladin, 400JP)
Equip Spear -> Equip Spear/Pole (Equip Polearm - Lancer, 350JP)
Equip Bow -> Equip Bow/Crossbow/Gun (Equip Ranged - Archer, 400JP)
Equip Gun -> Equip Rod/Staff/Book (Equip Magegear - Scholar, 250JP)
Equip Knife -> Equip Clothes/Hats/Robes (Equip Clothes - Squire, 250JP)
Equip Armor -> Unchanged
Equip Shield -> Unchanged
- Draw Outs which deal damage are now Magic evadable
- Chirijiraden is now 400 JP


ITEMS
- All equipment with Absorb: X is always neutral
Unless someone objects, or I am missing something.