Final Fantasy Hacktics

Where do I begin...

I am 11 hours into this game and still wading through the tutorials. The story feels like a rehash of FF3 with new characters and a steampunk decorator.

This is not so much a game as it is some developers magnum opus. I can feel the reluctance to let me have any freedom for fear that I will mess up the masterpeice they are trying to unfold. The battle system is contrived and awkward and the characters...the characters are actually relate-able.

Well fuck they got one thing right so I guess it isn't all bad.

What do you guys think?

Worth $60 bucks? I say no.


EDIT: Music...the music is...not bad, but not good either. So-so.

Final Fantasy hasn't had good character development since 6. So if they got something right there, well, good.


And the combat can't be worse than 12.

QuoteThis is not so much a game as it is some developers magnum opus. I can feel the reluctance to let me have any freedom for fear that I will mess up the masterpeice they are trying to unfold.

Define "freedom." If feel you're getting railroaded to the story, welcome to JRPGs. If it's as linear as 10 was (or more), I can certainly sympathize though.

surprisingly my friend is passing on FFXIII because he feels that the battle system is a step backward from FFXII.....yea

now if you'll excuse me i need to go and continue cursing my fate that i still have yet to own a current gen console

COPY PASTA!
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Ohhhhh man. I just spent the last 4 hours at a friend's house, watching FFXIII in action, and all I can think is: my timing for starting an Anti-Final Fantasy Week was perfect. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessa ... c=53818282 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=197339&topic=53818282))

FFXIII.

Garbage.

Complete and utter garbage.

When I tried to attack it for being too linear, saying that it was too much like FFX (in the sense that it is mostly "walking between scenes of a lengthy movie,") I actually had to listen to someone defend it with the argument, "I like when I can just get through the boring battle stuff and get back to a good story."

!?

That's what BOOKS ARE FOR!!

I loathe newer games for this very reason. Pretty graphics and "movie-like" plot sequences DO NOT make for compelling gameplay. In fact, FFXIII is easily the worst offender I have ever seen of a game that has no gameplay to it whatsoever. The maps are just as noodle-shaped as many of you have probably heard, and often-times even noodlier. The battle system was easily the most boring, mindless, unintuitive battle system I have ever seen in any RPG, ever. In fact, get this: Some of these people I hang out with actually tried to justify their hatred for FFXII, (which, as many of you know, I'm quite fond of), using the old criticism that they couldn't stand how the battle system pretty much did all of the fighting for you. Fair enough; to each his or her own. However, let me go ahead and set the record straight on this one here and now: the Gambit system of FFXII was optional, and put the focus on strategic AI builds if you wanted them. FFXIII only allows you to control one character (note: you don't even have the option to control the others!) (EDIT: At least it didn't appear like you could, from where I was sitting) and it puts the focus on the "strategy" (ie not strategic at all) system of selecting which awesome, amazing, pretty combo to use next. In other words, if you decide that, for this particular round of attacks, you want them to fire off two Aero spells and one Fire spell, you can select that combo and they'll go crazy with wind and fire! WHOOP. DE. Die.

Further, every major character in FFXIII seems to have been created by taking every dull, uninteresting character Nomura has ever created and vomiting them back up as hybrid clones, or "anal babies," as my good friend Hamsterfall calls them. Female-Cloud-in-Ashe's-Clothes meets up with Stereotypical-Black-Man-With-Afro and Redhead-Selphie and Blonde-Irvine-Who-Stole-Seifer's-Trenchcoat in order to save the world from.. something. I couldn't follow the plot because I was too distracted by how wonderful it felt to jam paperclips into my finger nails. Plus, even though I didn't see it during this visit, I'm sure I had seen Wakka's-Baby-Brother-Benny in one of the publicity photos. Oh, and at one point, Blonde-Irvine-Who-Stole-Seifer's-Trenchcoat got punched in the throat by Paine-From-X-2-Wearing-Rinoa's-Dress-Only-Black.

The only thing FFXIII has going for it: I saw all of this on an HD TV, which I've actually never seen before because I could care less about televisions. So yes, if you're the sort of person who likes slipping into a drooling, catatonic state via obscene, Michael Bay-like levels of eye-candy, FFXIII is "like totally amazing." Otherwise, apart from thirteen-year-olds looking for some, ahem, realistic side-boob-motion-in-HD, I can't see how this game could possibly appeal to anyone with an IQ in the double digits or higher. It has that whole cyber-punk style that VII and VIII had, except after 4 hours of watching fight after fight and scene after scene of robots and bigger robots fighting with lightning and slightly-greener lightning, I'm ready to kick my old fascination with cyber-punk into the darkest corner of the closet and pretend like I wasn't into that sort of stuff when my future kids dig it out and start making fun of me.

I'm going to hold off on my official star rating of the game until I get a chance to either play it or experience it in greater depth, because it isn't fair to completely judge the game on a mere 4 hours of spectatorship, but I'm already leaning towards a 1 or 2 out of 10. This has the potential to lift VIII off the dirty floor of my rankings.

Discuss.

I can hardly trust someone's opinion who hasn't completed the game (much less played it). Then again, I haven't played it either so...

I was kinda hoping for a DMC/GoW battle system hybridified with FF12's. Ah well.


EDIT:

QuoteWhen I tried to attack it for being too linear, saying that it was too much like FFX (in the sense that it is mostly "walking between scenes of a lengthy movie,") I actually had to listen to someone defend it with the argument, "I like when I can just get through the boring battle stuff and get back to a good story."

!?

That's what BOOKS ARE FOR!!

Oh, shut up.

Games are multimedia. That means they're comprised of more than one part; nothing is all important and nothing is worthless. Gameplay is arguably the most important part, yes, but certainly not the only thing.

Games with a crappy story are mostly forgettable.
Games with crappy visuals/sound can be unimmersive and unsatifying.
Games with crappy gameplay tend to be boring as hell.

Miss one of those and you can still have a good game. An example of a game with terrible gameplay that still manages to be quite worthwhile: Earthbound. There are examples of great games lacking one of the other two, too.

Hmm.. you must have missed that part where I intentionally held off on giving the game a star rating because I, admittedly, haven't played the game. However, I saw enough to give my initial impressions on how unbelievably stupid it looks. If you have a problem with that, consult your nearest dark little box to curl up and cry yourself to sleep in, because that will accomplish about the same amount as your attempt to argue with my criticisms of this regurgitated shit.

And don't tell me to shut up. Perhaps I should have said "That's what MOVIES are for!" instead of books, but the point I was making was, I should like to think, made. My criticism of FFXIII (and most newer games) is that they are intentionally made easier to allow the player to breeze through a quick 10 feet of "action" in order to get back to the 30 minutes of movie-sequences. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch one that doesn't require me to walk between scenes. Gameplay is everything, and FFXIII (along with most newer games), doesn't appear to have any. I cared, in FFVI, when Kefka destroyed the world because I spent time crawling across that insanely difficult Floating Continent to try and stop him, and later had to race against the clock to escape for our lives. When the game makes you earn the advancement of the plot, it has tension. When it just has you move forward to the end of the line, and takes over from there with nothing but flashy, action movie sequences, it's a choose-your-own-adventure without the "choice."

Quoteconsult your nearest dark little box to curl up and cry yourself to sleep in, because that will accomplish about the same amount as your attempt to argue with my criticisms

Gonna have to agree with you -- trying to argue with you would be pointless indeed.

I have to say that, thus far, I've been unimpressed with FF13.
I'm an old school gamer and pretty visuals mean a rats ass to me.
I hate the level of technology in it as much as I did in FF7 & 8. More so, actually, because they had to drag the summons into it.
I was tolerant of it FF12 because they at least gave me another piece of the Ivalice mythos, but enough is enough.
I can't comment on the story much as I haven't played it. However, the character design does seem very much like the old characters were put in a blender and poured into a new glass. For that I can just replay the older games or FF4:tAY.

Seriously, what does this game have to justify calling it Final Fantasy? I'd really like to know. I'd like to be given a reason to play this game.
In the mean time, it looks like I'm gonna do without Final Fantasy for the time being since I have no interest in FF14, and the other FF13 gaidens are action or card battle games that I'd sooner wipe my ass with then ever boot up.

Final Fantasy is just a brand name that sells. They can call it anything else, but then it wouldn't sell as much (or as well as slapping the Final Fantasy tag on it).

Quote from: "Vanya"I have to say that, thus far, I've been unimpressed with FF13.
I'm an old school gamer and pretty visuals mean a rats ass to me.
I hate the level of technology in it as much as I did in FF7 & 8. More so, actually, because they had to drag the summons into it.

You have to understand the RPG era is over. SNES and PSX RPGs were the best... then it just started going downhill.

That's why I'm trying other genres.
I'm getting Battlefield 2 soon. A friend suggested that I come by to try it and it was really fun.
I like fighting but don't like console fighting games, so WinMugen is Win for me.
Been years since I last played a good game comparatively to the year it was released.

Quote from: "Vanya"I have to say that, thus far, I've been unimpressed with FF13.
I'm an old school gamer and pretty visuals mean a rats ass to me.
I hate the level of technology in it as much as I did in FF7 & 8. More so, actually, because they had to drag the summons into it.
I was tolerant of it FF12 because they at least gave me another piece of the Ivalice mythos, but enough is enough.
I can't comment on the story much as I haven't played it. However, the character design does seem very much like the old characters were put in a blender and poured into a new glass. For that I can just replay the older games or FF4:tAY.

Seriously, what does this game have to justify calling it Final Fantasy? I'd really like to know. I'd like to be given a reason to play this game.
In the mean time, it looks like I'm gonna do without Final Fantasy for the time being since I have no interest in FF14, and the other FF13 gaidens are action or card battle games that I'd sooner wipe my ass with then ever boot up.

I'm younger than you and I agree completely with what you just said.

Replace the era of the RPG, and you turn video-games into the very thing that the moralist critics have always warned and feared: a TV substitute (with all the choice of a TV; 1000 different titles/channels, almost all the same idiocy, just in different flavors) with more graphic violence, language, and sex.
Why do else do you think derivative spin-off hacks are so popular on the internet?

This may sound idiotic but if you just lower your standards just and bit and payed attention to only the good things they did within the game, then it becomes very enjoyable (i personally liked the battle system and the graphics, so those are the only things I payed any attention too). Enjoying any game is to try to make it so that its flaws don't overshadow the effort they put into certain parts of the game.

In all fairness to that one guy, attacking the game for being too linear is a signal that you might be a person of mild intelligence. Every game deserves to be judged on its own merits. Yes, even a Final Fantasy game. There are many games out there that would suffer if they were non-linear and many games that use it to extraordinary advantage. One method isn't intrinsically superior to another.

Quote from: "boomkick"This may sound idiotic but if you just lower your standards just and bit and payed attention to only the good things they did within the game, then it becomes very enjoyable (i personally liked the battle system and the graphics, so those are the only things I payed any attention too). Enjoying any game is to try to make it so that its flaws don't overshadow the effort they put into certain parts of the game.

If you have to do that to enjoy a game, then that's a sign that it is a bad game. A good game's merits outweigh it's failures.

Game is lacking too much in the content department to be considered a solid title of the series.  I realize they wanted to make it visually stunning, but they just consumed far too many resources that could've been spent elsewhere making the game overall more enjoyable.

From people who have made end game, they're saying all the 'extra' content is just grinding gil to upgrade to everyone's ultimate weapon and *gasp* fighting more battles.  No mini-games, no nothing.  Just more battles.

Wow.  Just wow.

QuoteIf you have to do that to enjoy a game, then that's a sign that it is a bad game. A good game's merits outweigh it's failures.

Eh... depends. Some games have great ideas floating in a sea of crap. It may be worth it to dig for the good if the good is good enough. Also, games can be terrible at first but pick up later (valkyrie profile is a great example of this: 30 minute long incredibly boring intro, but an excellent game after you get out of the first dungeon and figure out what to do).

Not saying it is either of those here -- again, I haven't played it.

Quote from: "Zypher"surprisingly my friend is passing on FFXIII because he feels that the battle system is a step backward from FFXII.....yea

now if you'll excuse me i need to go and continue cursing my fate that i still have yet to own a current gen console

if only i knew you in rl.. you could possibly have borrowed mine for weeks, months if you needed....
my ps3 is sitting in my closet collecting dust....
quitting job to start school = cant afford any games......

30 fucking hours into this fucking game and it just got fucking good.

All the "fuckings" signal that the linearity was what was holding it back.

No that I have freedom it feels like a decent rpg. Nothing more, but nothing less.

And the 30 hours that lead up to it means that this game needs an archive save to have any replay-ability whatsoever.

Also note that I was still getting tutorials in hour 26.

Quote from: "Asmo X"In all fairness to that one guy, attacking the game for being too linear is a signal that you might be a person of mild intelligence. Every game deserves to be judged on its own merits. Yes, even a Final Fantasy game. There are many games out there that would suffer if they were non-linear and many games that use it to extraordinary advantage. One method isn't intrinsically superior to another.

Attacking the game for being too linear is my way of saying this game isn't worth my money. It has nothing to do with whether or not I have "mild intelligence." I play Final Fantasy games to become immersed in a new world; not to let it hold my dick while I leave a trail of piss to the next movie sequence, you know, in case I want to go back and watch sparkly things happen again. For my money, it's total bullshit.

I downloaded the Crystal Bearers not too long ago. I think I'll play that.
At least that game doesn't pretend to be something it's not.

Quote from: "Bastard Poetry"

Quote from: "Asmo X"In all fairness to that one guy, attacking the game for being too linear is a signal that you might be a person of mild intelligence. Every game deserves to be judged on its own merits. Yes, even a Final Fantasy game. There are many games out there that would suffer if they were non-linear and many games that use it to extraordinary advantage. One method isn't intrinsically superior to another.

Attacking the game for being too linear is my way of saying this game isn't worth my money. It has nothing to do with whether or not I have "mild intelligence." I play Final Fantasy games to become immersed in a new world; not to let it hold my dick while I leave a trail of piss to the next movie sequence, you know, in case I want to go back and watch sparkly things happen again. For my money, it's total bullshit.

Then you have just been taught a valuable life lesson about having preconceptions. I was fucking stoked to hear that FF13 was going to be linear. It sounded like a interesting angle for the series. Maybe they were really focused on making a tight, well-paced story for once. It turns out this didn't happen and the game is kind of awful but the idea of a linear FF game isn't intrinsically bad. What is bad is the ponderous baggage that fans like yourself have foisted upon the series. Let them experiment.

Man...so many people say FFXIII suck big time...i have it myself and this is not THIS bad not the best but still.
I dont have an idia wy but i simply love the battle music but not so much for the others homever. (Yet at less stills need to beat it)
I like the way how you can upgrade weapon and accecories later, but i was disapointed on how to improve your carecters.
A spin-off form FFX/FFXII but worse because this is so linear that costomisation is nearly no-existant...make me wonder wy you can't just get levels normally...
The battle system just need some get used-to but i hate how often i just pick *Auto* all the time because chosing  3-5 command in a single turn is just a pain. And the AI is just too good...to the point there is no reison NOT to chose auto...


I still find this game Medium/good but for a FF? i was a bit disapointed. But still good eneuf right?...........RIGHT??

Quote from: "Asmo X"Then you have just been taught a valuable life lesson about having preconceptions.

No.. I discovered that my preconceptions were spot on, and I didn't waste my money. There really wasn't any room for a valuable life lesson in there.

I will agree with you that linearity can, in some cases, be a good way to tell a story. The original Super Mario Bros certainly took me for a loop when I discovered that

I have to go against almost everyone in this I really like this game and have just been playing it for a long time, I finally have more freedom on gran Pulse makes the game that much more enjoyable.... anyway, I assume i wont be able to change any of the people who dont like FF13, which is ok... but its still a great game just give it a chance,(the Eidolons actually make a nice change to most bosses you fight in games, altho Alexander is cheap, 2 shotting Hope srsly what is that!???)
1 thing i have to be absoloutly sure of (soon) I have played FFTA2 and one of those battle musics was taken from thier....im sure of it!

Too bad wen the carecter you controling die's you get a game over even if your allies is still standing. (Can't be this like ffXII where if you die you just switch to the other one that is still alive, and keep going?)
Wen the game force you tu use low HP carecters this is a real pain.
At less being game over, unlike ALL the other ff, you starts at the exact place you left off and you get your items back including what you used before the battle, so dying is not a big deal and not fustrating. But this aslo make it easyer in a way.


Now that i think of it...this is a good game...but it got the worng title....anyone thinking the same way?

The Eidolon fights are AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL.

Quote from: "SolidSnakeDog"Now that i think of it...this is a good game...but it got the worng title....anyone thinking the same way?

Yes, yes I do.

Quote from: "Asmo X"The Eidolon fights are AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL.

in what way are they awful? (just wondering).

Quote from: "Jumza"in what way are they awful? (just wondering).

There are cheap, the battles are more fustrating that anything esle. And got a *Time* limit.
There just trying to slow you down so death sentence kills you.
And sometimes kills you faster that you can say : F*cKer!! , with the *Toss in the air and instant 2nd attack cheapeness*
Instant death even at full HP.(Or BARELY survive.)
Combos are the only thing that fills up the *Impress* bar fast eneuf. The other way to build it is too slow and unreliable.


A tip fighting em : Use the item that gives Haste before the battle so you can make alot of combos early and make things easyer in the long run.

I will just say the *classic* summons battles is much better that this...thing.

I actually don't like them to experiment with an established series to the extent to which SquareEnix seems to like to do.
FF11 & 14 should be Final Fantasy Online & FFO2.
FF12 should have been a FFT title.
FF CC series should not have had the FF attached to it.
And before anyone starts spouting off about brand recognition, that is a sorry ass way to treat your game and is no excuse. Just because you CAN attach it to a successful series doesn't mean you should. It's like they're admitting that the game isn't strOng enough to stand on it's own. And if it isn't good enough to stand on it's own it shouldn't.

I think once you figure out how to get that guage full then I dont even need Ethersol,aigesol (i think thats the name),(deceptisol doesnt work on bosses its impossible to pre-emptive strike one.)and there is one more that i forget.
Every Eidolon has his or her way of getting beaten quickly here is what i did for each one,
snow(shiva sisters): at first i was pretty freaked out by this fight until i fugred out that my health was always so high cuz one heals you, spam frostrike and blizzard finished.
Lightning(odin):easily dealt with although i was using lightning com and hope med for too long finished when doom counter was at 25, this easily done with rav/rav and rav/med
Sazh(I can never remember the name...) syn/sab, syn/med thats all i have to say. although if you dont like using syn's and sab's using that haste item  will work well with slash and burn paradigm
Fang(bahaumet):this is not the Bahaumat i know...I did this 2nd try sen/rav/med and sen/rav/com where great!
Hope(Alexander):I thought i would never get past this due to hope getting 2 shotted in about 1 minute into the battle, I later learned protect and Fang as a sentinel was key!
Vanille(Im not exactly sure):argh the hardest... I had to train on one rust pudding to get CP so she had enough health to survive and enough TP so she could just use med/sen once and renew the rest sab/sab and med/sen and sab/sen easily took this bug thing down.
Basically with the right startegy they are not to awful and cheap and they are extremely usefull(i used odin to survive desrudo in the Fal'cie battle) and Alexander to get the limit breaker achievment! that and the obvious helping you survive and your party member's dissapearing is good and bad (good if your party is dieng and you can summon et your summon to use curaga on you deal some deacent damage and return to your party and heal them up  and finish the rest of the monsters. All the same im glad im done with everyones eidolon...unless you get another party member....

I just read the GamePro review of the game. Why the FUCK aren't there any towns!! That is fuck.
Seriously, did they leave ANYTHING traditional in this thing? Damn, I'm quickly loosing any reason to play this.

Yes...no fucking towns. The only *Town* like place is the suposed to be the *Atraction park* or something like that. There is a few other but...there are actually *Dongeons* istend of towns.
Just sucks there are NO EVEN MINIGAMES AT THE *ACTRACTION PARK* AT ALL!(At less FF7 had a true atraction theme that actually got mini games in..unlike this crap) Only thing there is is a parade show in a cut scene, nothing more.(Oh..and a chocobo ranch that don't do anything esle that looking cute) And just to tease you, there say that *A new actraction will be avalable soon* YEAH! at if there was Any!(And that never got completed of course...)
EPIC FAIL!

Quote from: "Vanya"FF12 should have been a FFT title.

agreed

Why do you people complain about minor details?
It's got fucking lesbian motorcycle!!

Quote from: "Zodiac"It's got fucking lesbian motorcycle!!

Clearly worth $60

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Miss one of those and you can still have a good game. An example of a game with terrible gameplay that still manages to be quite worthwhile: Earthbound. There are examples of great games lacking one of the other two, too.

As far as I remember, Earthbound was a simple turn-based RPG. Like the majority of the numbered Final Fantasys. Where does the terrible gameplay come in?

QuoteEarthbound was a simple turn-based RPG.

That's where the terrible gameplay comes in.

Earthbound was a lot more like dragon warrior/quest than final fantasy, and incidentally I found dragon warrior/quest to be extremely boring.


FF5 and 6 (and to a lesser degree 4) all had some sort of interesting way to level up or variant gameplay mechanics. Earthbound has... attack. PSI powers you will only use on bosses. Heavy Bazooka. And that's it for the entire game.

Not to say the SNES final fantasies had deep or exciting battle systems, but they had something besides "mash A until things die." Admittedly the rolling HP counter was interesting, but ultimately I just found myself mashing A faster (if that were possible) when I was about to die.

I for one don't need action in my RPGs.
There are certain basic things I expect from my RPGs and action ain't one of 'em.
If I want action I'll go play an action game.
If I want kick-ass stories, free roaming worlds, and complex battle systems that actually make me use my noggin, that's when I turn to an RPG.

Vanya says : If I want kick-ass stories, free roaming worlds, and complex battle systems that actually make me use my noggin, that's when I turn to an RPG.

This is EXATLY what a final fantasy should be and ALWAYS should be.
Too bad there fucking it up lately.

I think there's certainly a place for action RPGs. Think Kingdom Hearts, Diablo, and Star Ocean -- three very different types of battle systems, all under the "action" category, and all interesting.

Honestly I think the "use your noggin" RPG battle systems are falling behind. Everyone who wants to make a deep turn based battle system just uses a grid, and it's getting pretty predictable. There are more things than movement to add depth, and movement has a lot more options than using a chessboard or hex grid. Yet everyone sticks with those or gets criticized for trying something different... (Phantom Brave had a gridless system that everyone I know hated. I just thought it badly implemented, not inherently a bad idea.)

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"I think there's certainly a place for action RPGs. Think Kingdom Hearts, Diablo, and Star Ocean -- three very different types of battle systems, all under the "action" category, and all interesting.

Yes there is a place for them. I'm just not happy about an established RPG series completely changing genres without changing titles.

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"Honestly I think the "use your noggin" RPG battle systems are falling behind. Everyone who wants to make a deep turn based battle system just uses a grid, and it's getting pretty predictable. There are more things than movement to add depth, and movement has a lot more options than using a chessboard or hex grid. Yet everyone sticks with those or gets criticized for trying something different... (Phantom Brave had a gridless system that everyone I know hated. I just thought it badly implemented, not inherently a bad idea.)

That doesn't mean they should be abandoned. If anything, it should be the focus of the RPG series like Final Fantasy to work on improving that style of play rather than working their way out of it. That's just a cop out. And besides that, the problems with FF13 run much deeper than just the battle system.