Job & Skill Proposals/Idea Thread

[The Damned]

I'm pretty sure that was in conjunction with other changes, but I'll have to have a closer look at the thread.

I see.

Well, I already made changes to Knight since I did give Paladin all the equipment Breaking abilities, so my version of Knight currently has 5 new skills--9 (which is all of them) if we're counting the changes from vanilla and not 1.3. Still, I'd like to know what you had planned when you have the time.

Ugh, my sleep schedule is even more properly screwed up now since I finally fell asleep at noon. So I guess it's just another all-nighter of testing and playing. If anyone wants to test me to try to test anything specific--I'm all the way up to Zaland's Chapter 2 in other file I've been using strictly for 1.3, I can try to try it, otherwise I'm going to try to start finalizing my job sets, consolidating even more space and maybe finally start looking into the Animations and ENTD tabs, which I've largely been avoiding and thus am completely incompetent with regards to using.

Oh, before I forget, I want to echo one of formerdeathcrops's posts since it only got posted in philsov's thread and not this more general thread:

You can consolidate a lot more than that; just from a vanilla patch:

-1 Seal
-1 Blood Suck
-2 Small Bomb
-12 Monster Base Generics (16 monster classes, all of them use the same damage formula, one attack suffices for them all; the animation is always correct, the only thing glitchy will be the sound...only exceptions will be triple attack, throw spirit, leaf dance, and whatever move you keep to mimic across monsters)
-3 Elemental Breath
-1 Shock
-2 Bio
-3 Bio2
-2 Bio3
-15 Free Spaces (since replacing Teleport Send/Arrive will not actually glitch the game)
That's 42 right there.

Some more controversial ones:
TK/Oracle (+14+7 if you include Blind 2, Confuse 2, Lose Voice, Darkness, Despair 2, Hold Tight, and Threaten)
AK/Knight Stat Breaks (+4+2 if you include Circle and Beaking)
No Speed Boosts (+3)
No Invite/Steal Gil/Steal EXP (+5)
DS (+1)
Level Up/Down (+2)
Turn Punch/Spin Fist (+1)
No Stat Boosts (+4)
Cheer Up/Praise (+1)
Frog/Toad 2 (+1)
Death Cold/Slow (+1)
Don't Move/Chicken Race (+1)
Redundant Work Skillset (+3)
Loss/Stop (+1)
Allure/Charm (+1--though this is if you really want to restrict charm)
Wish/Energy (+1)
That's 53 more for a total of 95. Of course, 1.3 had its own uses for some of the above, so this number's too high, but you should get the picture.

Also, I'm going echo that for some reason monsters can't seem to use any attack with animation FFFF (such as regular Attack, any of equipment Breaking skills and so on), even though they will totally attack you with their "normal" attack if Berserk even if you give them no physical attacks.

(I'm admittedly unsure how this works on Woodfolk/Woodmen, Ghosts and Hydras, though.)

[DeadManWalking]

I've had an idea for a possible class for awhile now, inspired by the Warlord in D&D 4th Edition (And the Marshal in D&D 3.5), and I'd like to make it, but I just need to see if it's actually possible to.

Class: Field Marshal (Or just Marshal)
Description: Warriors that are often military commanders or battle strategists, they fight with their minds as well as their bodies, ordering their allies to boost their effectiveness, and attacking their enemies in strategic ways to gain an advantage.

Unlock: Mediator 4, Knight 4

Equipment: Daggers, Swords, Shields, Crossbows, Hats, Clothes, Robes

Innate: Monster Skill,

Skillset: Strategy

spoiler

Warning Cry
Description:  Shout a warning to allies.  Add: Defend (100% Chance)
JP: 150
Area of Effect: Auto (User Based Area of Effect, I.E. Similar to Samurai Draw Outs)
Range: 3

Inspiring Cry
Description:  Inspire allies to ignore wounds and fatigue and fight on, restores HP/MP (Minor)
JP: 200
Area of Effect: Auto (User Based Area of Effect, I.E. Similar to Samurai Draw Outs)
Range: 2

Rallying Cry
Description:  Inspires allies to fight better, Add: Regen (25% Chance), Add: Protect (25% Chance), Add: Shell (25% Chance)
JP: 300
Area of Effect: Auto (User Based Area of Effect, I.E. Similar to Samurai Draw Outs)
Range: 2

Terrifying Cry
Descriptions: Shouts a threat to enemies, causing hesitation. Add: CT 0 (50% Chance)
JP: 300
Area of Effect: Auto (User Based Area of Effect, I.E. Similar to Samurai Draw Outs)
Range: 2

War Cry
Description:  Inspires allies to fight harder, Add: Haste (50% Chance)
JP: 400
Area of Effect: Auto (User Based Area of Effect, I.E. Similar to Samurai Draw Outs)
Range: 2

Piercing Strike
Description: An attack that goes through an enemies defenses, Cancel: Defend, Cancel: Protect, Cancel: Shell
JP: 200
Area of Effect: 1
Range: Variable (Depends on Weapon)

Eye Strike
Description: An attack aiming for the enemies eyes, Add: Blind (25%), Add: Confuse (25%)
JP: 300
Area of Effect: 1
Range: Variable (Depends on Weapon)

Venom Strike
Description: An attack with a weapon coated in a paralyzing poison, Add: Poison (25% Chance), Add: Don't Act (25% Chance)
JP: 300
Area of Effect: 1
Range: Variable (Depends on Weapon)

Hamstring Strike
Description: An attack aiming for the enemies legs, Add: Slow (25% Chance), Add: Don't Move (25% Chance)
JP: 300
Area of Effect: 1
Range: Variable (Depends on Weapon)

Vital Strike
Description: An attack aiming for the enemies vital organs, Add: Death Sentence (25% Chance), Add: Critical (25% Chance)
JP: 400
Area of Effect: 1
Range: Variable (Depends on Weapon)

Reaction Abilities:

spoiler

Terrify - Lowers Enemy Brave By 5
JP: 250

Support Abilities:

spoiler

Guerrilla War - Initial: Transparent
JP: 200

Alertness - No Bonus to be hit from Back/Side Attacks (If Possible)
JP: 300

Movement Abilities:
N/A

[formerdeathcorps]

Oh dear, your General unit class is going to require quite a bit of ASM.

There's no formula that attacks the enemy and gives yourself a status effect.  I'd rather have 100% cancel defend or something akin to that on enemies.
Vital Strike is impossible.  You can't have two separate percentages for stats.
You need a MP cost all of those attack + status moves unless you mean just to inflict the status at X%.  If it's the former, you should know that can either have 100% status infliction with attack or 25% status infliction, but you can't have 50% status infliction with attack.
Terrify would just be a simple ASM hack on brave up.  Same with guerrilla war.
I'm not sure how difficult Alertness would be, but since Zodiac made the global C-EV hack, he's probably a better judge of that.

[The Damned]

Since formerdeathcorps didn't say anything about it, I would have to say that Terrifying Cry seems kind of broken, especially if you're going by the old discriminating Draw Out standard.

Any CT 00 skills are kind of "iffy" when it comes to trying to balance them/make them not abusable.

**

Anyway, since I finally got some sleep for once, I'm probably going to be testing all day. I'll try to test Necromancer a lot this weekend since Paladin seems to be doing well and I'm pretty much done with Blue Mage for now.

[Lydyn]

Edit: Wrong section.

[DeadManWalking]

Formerdeathcorps, I could always make the MP cost 0, like the Holy Sword Skills.  It's the 25% or 100% only that annoys me, I'd rather not have it 100% of the time, but 25% is too low, I suppose I could compensate by giving them all additional statuses they can potentially inflict, making the chance higher they'll get one. (Or both, if they're really lucky)  Anyway, I've already made edits to my former post about it.

The Damned, well, I may have some of the abilities reserved for a special character with this class, that'll be one of those skills, I suppose.

[DeadManWalking]

Anyone have any suggestions/opinions?  Especially about what class this class should replace, I'm leaning towards Bard, but I don't like that that one is only males.

Edit: Now that I think about it, it might make the most sense to have it actually replace Mediator itself, I'll go take a look at some things in the morning.

[The Damned]

Ultimately it's up to you what class replaces what, especially since most people have no idea what everyone else is doing with there classes.

I did some rather minor tests with Necromancer, though I did enough that I can support that there will be no way to Raise the dead without some ASM hacking since Dead (and Petrify, much to my chagrin, but I disgress) will always ignore things that don't cancel them.

I also have to echo that the blank slate Blue Mage is something to behold.

EDIT: Whoops, I knew I was forgetting stuff already:

• Surprisingly, Shuriken don't seem be affected by the graphic you give them. I tried putting Bombs in that slot and Shurikens were still thrown...Shuriken that had weird animation effects. I wonder how you add in animation for those things....?
• Draw Out seems surprisingly flexible outside of having to use those particular item slots. It doesn't seem to care what formula (or range or weapon type) you use, though I'm not sure if it will ever break if you change the formula from those three, which could be a problem....

[DeadManWalking]

Since my thread was locked, here's my advanced idea about Marshals.  I've already changed and edited some things.

Name: Marshal (Replaces Mediator)
Description: Veteran warrior that acts as a tactician, uses 'Strategy' to turn the tide of battle.

Requirements: Monk 3 (Geomancer moved to Oracle 3)

Innate: Maintenance

Equip: Dagger, Sword, Crossbow, Shield, Hat, Clothes, Robes

Skillset: Strategy
Description:

-----

spoiler: Strategy:1jts0e4z

Invitation
Rng: 1
AOE: 0
Vert: 2
CT: 0
MP: 0
Ele: -
Formula: Hit_(MA+0)%
EV: -
Status: Add: Invite
Counter: -
Description: Persuade enemy to switch sides

Warn
Rng: 0
AOE: 3
Vert: 2
CT: 3
MP: 0
Ele: -
Formula: Hit_(MA+70)%
EV: -
Status: Add: Defending
Counter: -
Description: An order that caution allies of danger.

Inspire
Rng: 0
AOE: 2
Vert: 1
CT: 3
MP: 0
Ele: -
Formula: Hit_(MA+45)%
EV: -
Status: Add: Regen, Add: Reraise (One or the other, not both)
Counter: -
Description:  An order that urges allies to fight on

Rally
Rng: 0
AOE: 2
Vert: 1
CT: 3
MP: 0
Ele: -
Formula: Hit_(MA+45)%
EV: -
Status: Add: Protect, Add: Shell (One or the other, not both)
Counter: -
Description: An order that urges allies to be defensive

Warcry
Rng: 0
AOE: 2
Vert: 0
CT: 3
MP: 0
Ele: -
Formula: Hit_(MA+40)%
Status: Add: Haste
Counter: -
Description: An order to move faster

Piercing Strike
Rng: Wpn
AOE: 0
Vert: Wpn
CT: 0
MP: ?
Ele: -
Formula: Dmg_(PA*(WP+0)
EV: P
Status: Cancel: Defending, Shell, Protect, Reflect, Wall
Counter: Everything that can counter a physical attack
Description: An attack aimed at getting through defenses

Blood Strike
Rng: Wpn
AOE: 0
Vert: Wpn
CT: 0
MP: 6
Ele: -
Formula:  AbsHP_(PA*(WP+0)
EV: P
Special: HP Drain
Description: Mimic the effects of the Blood Sword with an experienced attack.

Blinding Strike
Rng: Wpn
AOE: 0
Vert: Wpn
CT: 0
MP: 6
Ele: -
Formula: Dmg_(PA*(WP+0)
EV: P
Status: Add: Blind
Counter: Everything that can counter a physical attack
Description: An attack aimed at the enemy's eyes

Hamstring Strike
Rng: Wpn
AOE: 0
Vert: Wpn
CT: 0
MP: 6
Ele: -
Formula: Dmg_(PA*(WP+0)
EV: P
Status: Add: Slow
Counter: Everything that can counter a physical attack
Description: An attack aimed at a weak point in the enemy's legs

Venom Strike
Rng: Wpn
AOE: 0
Vert: Wpn
CT: 0
MP: 6
Ele: -
Formula: Dmg_(PA*(WP+0)
EV: P
Status: Add: Poison
Counter: Everything that can counter a physical attack
Description: An attack with a weapon coated in a deadly venom

Reaction:

Status Guard: Defend against most status spells.
(I'll try editing the reaction, but I may have to change the formula on the spells.)

Support:

Train

Maintenance (Switched with Equip Gun with Chemist)

---------

I've changed it considerably from the original plan, I've taken out the CT 00 skill (The AI wasn't using it, and it's likely the success chance was so small it wasn't worth using for the player either)

The statuses on the strikes inflict 100% of the time, but they cost MP to compensate.  I've also made the AoE skills have a CT of 3 (About that of Cure1, IIRC) to help compensate for the increased AoE

[Boxiii]

I have a necromancer in my personal patch, and i just went with a normal mage build for him. (I'm using WoTL so excuse the changed skill names)

Bard- Necro (halves dark)
Requirements-  Black Mage lvl 8, Mystic lvl 8
Equips- Rod, Staff, Book
Innate-Magick att up, Manafont
Skillset- Death Magicks
   Bio*   
   Biora*   
   Bioga*
   Death*   
        Darkness*
        Drain Touch
        Lich*
        Unholy Cross*


The bio skills have a normal formula like fire, blizzard, etc. and add status effects. Death has a lower CT, Darkness costs MP and is 100% darkness, Lich adds poison and Unholy Cross adds undead,poison, and slow at a certain chance. The skillset could use a few more moves but i ran out of creativity

[Timbo]

I've got some ideas for your Marshal job.  A new power called March, Move Up, Move Forward, or something like that essentially its an effect 1 version of throw stone or dash, that does no damage and has a high hit rate.  Use the ASM hack to make that formula always push.  Then you can have your Marshal command his troops to move forward.  How about a skill like Accumulate but for your other allies?  

Finally, can the Marshal use his skills on himself?

[Skip Sandwich]

here is a D&D style fighter class, part of a D&D inspired personal patch I've been working on

Job: Fighter
Sprite: Squire
Replaces: Squire
Equip: Sword, Flail, Spear, Axe, Knife, Knight Sword, Katana, Staff, Crossbow, Shield, Helmet, Hat, Plate, Chain, Leather
Innate: Defend

Move: 2
Jump: 3
Evasion: 20%

Abilities

Bull Rush: Deals rnd(1..6) * PA physical damage and knocks back the target, range 2v1, linear attack, direct.

Command: direct an ally's actions, set CT to 100, range 3, cannot target self

Warn: direct allies to take cover against incoming attacks, range 3, area 1v3, adds defending status, cannot target self

Weapon Break: attempt to sunder target's weapon

Shield Break: attempt to sunder target's shield

Head Break: attempt to sunder target's headgear

Threaten: attempt to inflict don't act on a target, range 3, talk skill

Reaction/Support/Movement
Counter
Equip Change
Maintenance

and here is the coresponding D&D style wizard class (in the patch, the difference between divine and arcane magic is that arcane magic ignores faith, divine magic does not). Also, maximum mp will be about 50 end-game (80 post-game), with in-battle mp recovery options very limited (in point of fact, Absorb Used MP and MP Restore might end up being the ONLY means of recovering mp mid-battle, which also makes the Half MP support more useful).

Job: Wizard
Sprite: Wizard
Replaces: Wizard
Equip: Knife, Staff, Crossbow, Gun, Leather, Hat

Move: 2
Jump: 3
Evasion: 10%

Abilities

Magic Missile: deals MA * 6 damage, range 4, unevadable, mp cost 1

Burning Hands: deals MA * 4 fire damage, range 2, area 2, linear attack, mp cost 1

Acid Arrow: deals MA * 4 piercing damage, may inflict poison, range 4, mp cost 2

Gust of Wind: deals PA * 1 typeless physical damage and causes knockback, range 5, area 5, linear attack, mp cost 2, unevadable

Fireball: deals MA * 6 fire damage, range 4, area 1v3, mp cost 4

Lightning Bolt: deals MA * 6 electrical damage, range 5, area 5, linear attack, mp cost 4

Blizzard: deals MA * 8 cold damage, range 0, area 2v3, mp cost 6

Wall of Fire: deals MA * 8 fire damage, range 5, area 5, linear attack, mp cost 6

Cloudkill: inflicts poison, range 4, area 2v3, mp cost 8

Polymorph: changes target into a frog, or undoes existing polymorph, range 4, mp cost 8

Flesh to Stone: petrifies target, range 4, mp cost 10

Magic Sword: deals PA * (WP + 5) damage, weapon strike, weapon range, mp cost 10

Spell Turning: grant reflect status, range 4, area 1v3, mp cost 12

Finger of Death: instantly kill a single target, range 4, mp cost 12

Fireburst: deals MA * 10 fire damage, range 0, area 2v3, may inflict blind status, mp cost 15

Meteor Swarm: Summon ten meteors, dealing (MA + 9)/2 * MA fire/blunt damage each, range 4, area 2v255, 10 hits, random fire, mp cost 20

Reaction/Support/Movement
Counter Magic

[Timbo]

Great Minds think alike.  I was thinking about a D&D tactics game.

[DeadManWalking]

Don't think I'll do something quite like that, I don't have many ability ability slots to spare, honestly, and I've got some other abilities that utilize knockback.  Although, the Marshal class, as I said, was also inspired by DnD.

And, Skip, I'm going to have to thank you, Kage suggested I include one of your elemental Dragoons in my class patch, I took a couple of skills, added my own spin to them and made a couple new ones, and made up a Dragoon class of my own.

[Timbo]

So, I've got some ideas to make my archer better and now that its time to actually create them, I'm a little torn and I need some expert advice.  I'm not creating anything new or groundbreaking here by the way.

So, I've decided to take my Archer to an assassin kind of place.  He uses poisons.

Arsenic Poison: Inflicts Poison
Methanol Poison: Inflicts Blindness
Chloroform Poison: Inflicts Sleep
Cyanide Poison: Inflicts Death

I've got two problems:

1. How much should I charge in terms of MP and/or CT?
2. Should I use formula 2D or should I choose formula 3F?

2D Does Auto-Hit Weapon damage + 25% chance to inflict status.  
3F Doesn't cause damage, instead its speed + x% chance to inflict status.

Anybody care to weigh in on this for me?  Also, if you have any better suggestions for names of poisons I'd love to hear them?

[The Damned]

Finally.

Sorry for the two-three week wait for testing things, but I just wanted to finish getting abilities for all my classes. (Too bad my Dragoon doesn't appear to work at the moment. Damn.)

It would appear that you were quite correct, Skip Sandwich. (Even though your post referencing what I'm about to say is got deleted when the site went down.)

Draw Out will indeed automatically consume an item that doesn't use the Draw Out formula. I'm so very glad to be certain of this now since it makes Templar much easier to plan without it just being to whore one item that never broke.

Additionally, that same chance to break seems to be unaffected if you changed the type of weapon, since it will work if as long as it's in that slot, or changing range or any other stats (though, yeah, it unfortunately won't take MP and I haven't tested out CT).

So that's decided.

In testing, despite coming across a lot more problems than I had wanted to today, I wasn't able to verify the two last things I should have realized with Learn on Hit.

You see, it was only earlier this week that I had realized that I should have tested Learn on Hit with Cancel Dead as well as Learn on Hit with weapon procs--not that you want to get poked by a Dragon Whisker just to learn on Fire Breath.

I guess I'll try to confirm that later on today after I fix the 52 mistakes I made.

P.S. Rad's sprite in FFTPatcher apparently just gives you a really glitchy female Ninja that seems to be screwing up the first battle. Do not want.

[formerdeathcorps]

Finally.

Sorry for the two-three week wait for testing things, but I just wanted to finish getting abilities for all my classes. (Too bad my Dragoon doesn't appear to work at the moment. Damn.)

It would appear that you were quite correct, Skip Sandwich. (Even though your post referencing what I'm about to say is got deleted when the site went down.)

Draw Out will indeed automatically consume an item that doesn't use the Draw Out formula. I'm so very glad to be certain of this now since it makes Templar much easier to plan without it just being to whore one item that never broke.

Additionally, that same chance to break seems to be unaffected if you changed the type of weapon, since it will work if as long as it's in that slot, or changing range or any other stats (though, yeah, it unfortunately won't take MP and I haven't tested out CT).

So that's decided.

In testing, despite coming across a lot more problems than I had wanted to today, I wasn't able to verify the two last things I should have realized with Learn on Hit.

You see, it was only earlier this week that I had realized that I should have tested Learn on Hit with Cancel Dead as well as Learn on Hit with weapon procs--not that you want to get poked by a Dragon Whisker just to learn on Fire Breath.

I guess I'll try to confirm that later on today after I fix the 52 mistakes I made.

P.S. Rad's sprite in FFTPatcher apparently just gives you a really glitchy female Ninja that seems to be screwing up the first battle. Do not want.

Learn on hit only either only works with inflict damage/status or never with cast on allies (this was my test with wish).  Weapon procs do work; I remember someone basing their blue mage patch off of that and getting it to work.
Draw Out takes CT, but both the AI and player will lose charging if they use draw out and then move because the effect radius is 0 with auto (or linear, which creates the same problem).

As for Jack,
1) Arsenic Poison?  If you want something that rapidly depletes one's constitution, arsenic is too slow.  I'd pick something like snake venom.
2) Methanol?  You mean wood alcohol?  This is probably something far more flammable and useful for ranged explosive attacks.  If you want to inflict blindness, try using strong reagents (like acids) to the face or things that release corrosive or blinding fumes.
Technical issues aside, this seems like items that belong on a chemist so it shouldn't cost any MP, but those would either be 100% or close to 0%.  If you really have no other option, you could make them use up "katanas" that have been replaced by items (with no unit able to equip a katana).  Using Skip's discovery that a non-samurai formula means auto-breakage, and you could easily simulate throw item or something like that, but only if you want to replace samurai with something radically different and lower the number of available weapon types.
If you are seriously going to stick to inflicting damage with MP or CT, something like:
1 CT/5 MP for blind
2 CT/8 MP for poison
4 CT/15 MP for sleep
5 or 6 CT with at least 10 MP/25+ MP for dead
would work if you are not using damage.
If you are using damage from the weapon formula 2D, but Y=0, the above should also suffice if you are using inflict 25% status (which is done by flagging the separate on the status effect).  If you want 100% (flag random or all or nothing), the above should also hold as long as you replace dead with DS at double MP costs or at 1.5x CT costs (but keep dead).  If you're going to boost damage, I'd raise CT costs by 1 for each increase of 1.6 in Y or MP by 8 for each increase of 1 in Y.

[Timbo]

Well, I went with Arsenic Poison because it wasn't super lethal.  Snake venom does a lot more then damage over time.  It causes paralysis, destroys nerve tissues, and causes organ failure.  In reality a good snake venom like that of the rattlesnake or black mamba would be poison, blindness, don't act, don't move, sleep, and death sentence.  Methanol poisoning is one of the only poisons that cause blindness.  

Here is the thing, I'm not particular about what I call my poisons but I want a resounding theme.  I chose chemical names because that was the only theme that went across the board for all four status effects.  I would be more then happy to go with another if we could find one that works across the board.  

What sucks is that I thought I was completely done with all of this job balancing stuff and now I'm all the way back to the archer that I started on.  I've currently got him with 10 skills; the Knight's 4 stat breaks, the poison skills from above, and aim which is formula 2D without a status effect.  I was thinking that the archer used MP costs to guide his "limited" supply of poisonous arrows.  Charge costs make more sense in the same vein of thought but not by much.  

I really like the Katana idea, but like you said, it radically changes the game.  Of course we could really go crazy and fold swords and Knight Swords into the same type and move Katanas into the Knightsword type.  For my patch, Knightswords all become forced two handed so its not that big of a deal.

As for the Draw Out skills they could be recreated but wouldn't be katana dependent.  It's actually a solid idea.  It also allows for some pretty creative magic arrows/poisons/alchemy items/whatever.  You could potentially create any kind of consumable whatever.  Its a really sweet idea that could again radically change my job tree.

By the way, what happens if you use a one of the draw out skills in another ability set?  Do they by chance become unbreakable regardless of formula?

[The Damned]

You can't put Draw Out skills in other skill sets. Just like you can't put Items, Elementals, Throw and Jump (gr...) into other skill sets.

I unfortunately didn't get to test the Cancel Dead Learn on Hit, since the ability I wanted doesn't appear to work, so...yeah.

[formerdeathcorps]

From Raven's stream, for healing to be learned (is possible), you need to use it on units who are not at full health.  That explains why wish didn't work for me.