The VK patch! Come and help us!

[Desocupado]

Well, Knight Swords and Spear have damage of WP*PA*Brv/100...
So, the Chaos Blade would have and effective WP equal 40*0,72 (max brave) -> 28,8.
BTW, I would also recommend removing Escutacheon II and Javelin II. Such uber rare items are pointless to me...

I find math skill to be fun, and the AI can make a good use of it... Truth be told, if you make the actual 'Red Magic' skill set you've been all talking about the only 'Math-able' skills (I made it apply only to lower level black, white and time magic) it works kinda well...
Of course Math skill can still be used on enemies bosses even if you remove calculator class

One thing one must keep in mind when changing classes and weapons is that all of them must have a purpose and/or a special feature.

Let's look at the standard weapons for now:

Dagger -> Low damage, (speed may increase it as well, as if it would do any good)
Ninja Knife -> Good damage (speed based damage, which works good on ninja actually)
Swords -> Good damage
Knight Sword -> Amazing damage and status bonuses (damage based on brave)
Katana -> Good damage (damage based on brave as well)
Spear -> Better Range (damage based on brave)
Stick -> Good range, damage based on MA
Axes -> high PA, but rely on chance (good for battle skills I believe)
Flail -> Same as axes
Staff -> Reasonable damage, reasonable MA bonuses
Rod -> Lousy damage, great bonuses
Dictionary -> Good range (indirect), lousy damage
Harp -> Like dictionary, but less damage, however apply status
Crossbow -> Lousy damage, good range (anyone could use)
Bow -> Good damage and good range (archer advantage)
Gun -> Fixed damage, great range
Magical Gun -> Amazing range and damage
Bag -> Another 'axe' weapon, with some status bonuses
Silk -> Some extra range, low attack, great evade

If we look at the list we can see what are the traits a weapon can have:
1 - Weapon Power
2 - Range
3 - Damage Formula
4 - Initial/Always Status
5 - Inflict Status
6 - Inflict Skill
7 - Status Bonuses
8 - A combo with some skill (silk with weapon guard, battle skill with guns)
9 - 1 handed/2 handed/Can't be two handed

Can you say all weapons have a purpose now?

[Asmo X]

what would be cooler is if you could change the monster to something else like a dragon. i have an idea if its possible to do that, you could make a special class (actually make special classes that always have the morph skills to morph into the other 2 or 3 forms) it might make random status changes but still you could have a shapeshifter. basically have a Special human unit and a few special monsters (like the ultima demon/holy dragon kind so you can assing that ability auto learned as the first 2 or 3 skills)

That would be sweet as long as the special monsters were suitably unique. I only chose frog/chicken etc because lets face it, having a super chicken run around would be funny.

Your idea IS better but I think choosing monsters that have a vaguely humanoid shape would be preferable. How about the special monsters be palette-swapped versions of the Ultima Demon, Minotaur and Squid classes. For bonus relevance, the same pallette of colours could be used for all the monsters.

[Austin]

Well, Knight Swords and Spear have damage of WP*PA*Brv/100...
Oops, forgot about that. But there's not really much reason to remove anything (except blade grasp) since we can just weaken it now. And there should be a lot more variety in the weapon types when everything's said and done. Math skill would still be too good to have though, even with low lvl skills, since you could still pull off stuff like protect-all.

[Asmo X]

If we look at the list we can see what are the traits a weapon can have:
1 - Weapon Power
2 - Range
3 - Damage Formula
4 - Initial/Always Status
5 - Inflict Status
6 - Inflict Skill
7 - Status Bonuses
8 - A combo with some skill (silk with weapon guard, battle skill with guns)
9 - 1 handed/2 handed/Can't be two handed

Can you say all weapons have a purpose now?

Chance of successful hit is another trait that can be thrown into the balance pool. I think we tried this a while ago. Vincent started a thread asking what the unique traits of each category or even individual weapons were. Got some good changes out of that but I think more can be done.

[VincentCraven]

Err... okay. Good discussions guys.

So ummm, is this activity grounds for making a new section? If we are discussing all parts of the game at once, I would find it much easier to be able to check all like posts together. My post I made a few hours ago has been followed with like 15 posts about weapons.

Do we need to repopulate the FFT chat room? Just throwing it out there.

[Austin]

Yeah, we might need to divide the patch up into different forum sections like weapons, classes, etc.

Seems like the site is a lot more lively now though.

[Asmo X]

There probably should be a new area so we can divide this discussion into orderly topics. How much do you guys want to get done for the super patch? Do you want to wait for formulas?

[Xifanie]

But we're only at 5 pages Vinc!

Argg0 rarely comes (well at my times at least), Raijinli is often there, melonhead almost always, and I have XChat always open so every time I open the connection I'm automatically logging in.

That doesn't make much people, it was much more lively before.

[Austin]

There's no reason to wait since there's other stuff to start on. Anyways, ideas for a way to divy this up:
items
abilities
jobs
entds
text editing-we dont have it yet but there's plenty to discuss when we do

But we're only at 5 pages Vinc!
Yeah, but at this rate its going to be at 20 in a week or two.

[karsten]

Karsten, you suggested we start by "1)agreeing on classes available/new and required levels."
How about the following classes at the following levels:


Squire-none
Knight-Level 3 Squire
Archer-Level 3 Squire
Monk-Level 3 Knight
Thief-Level 3 Archer
Geomancer-Level 4 Monk
Lancer-Level 4 Thief
Samurai-Level 4 Knight, Level 5 Monk, Level 2 Lancer
Ninja-Level 4 Archer, Level 5 Thief, Level 2 Geomancer

Chemist-none
Priest-Level 3 Chemist
Wizard-Level 3 Chemist
Oracle-Level 3 Priest
Time Mage-Level 3 Wizard
Blue Mage-Level 4 Oracle
Summoner-Level 4 Time Mage
Red Mage-Level 3 Priest, Level 3 Wizard, Level 2 Knight

Dancer*-Level 4 Lancer, Level 4 Geomancer
Bard*-Level 4 Summoner, Level 4 Blue Mage
Mime-Level 4 Geomancer, Level 4 Lancer, level 4 Blue Mage, level 4 Summoner

*Dancer is still female only, Bard still male only

Once we agree on who is in the job tree, we can decide on stats/innates.
[Edit: Red Mage changed from 4BM/WM to 3BM/WM]

I say Mediator should hit the deck if all br/fa mod skills are disappearing. We changed Persuade in FFT Sigma to avoid problems with fighting Zodiac monsters, and Insult and Mimic Daravon both add effects that Oracle can add.  Yes, Yin-Yang will have higher accuracy; most of the skills are already quick enough.

i'm quite agreeing with this, but i think that blue mage should be available almost immediatly, so that people can start learning from monsters earlier.... red mage is perfect i think.


by the way, i was thinking yesterday, that chemist's skillset is utterly boring... i think nobody bothers learning ALL the useless skills like eye drop, maiden kiss and suc, but just head to the remedy/phoenix down/potions... so shall we insert offensive item like chemists had in FFV?

that would make AI controlled chemists far more dangerous... maybe an item that cast a spell,


and also, i think we need a dedicated forum so that we can split the discussions in

job tree/ job innates
skillsets
monster/battle balancements
karsten - vincent - zodiac's chars skillset and discussion
and so on.

this way we risk losing some good posts in the mess

[VincentCraven]

Well, I figured in chapter 1 you aren't missing much storybattle-wise against monsters. However, we could flip-flop Oracle and Blue Mage? Blue Mage just came off to me as a higher tier. I would also say this flip-flop would be grounds for making Oracle a bit better too. I would be against having Blue Mage available at the same time as Knight/Archer though.

Should Chemist have access to an item similar to the balls that Ninja throw? I agree that several items are not used very often; however, Chemist is a healing class and pretty good when used right. Perhaps we should upgrade Chemist to Alchemist?

And I think we have enough activity to deserve a splitting of relevant topics. If nothing else, we can just start threads in FFT Sigma.

[NeedsMoreNoise]

Should Chemist have access to an item similar to the balls that Ninja throw? I agree that several items are not used very often; however, Chemist is a healing class and pretty good when used right. Perhaps we should upgrade Chemist to Alchemist?

The fact that Chemists can equip guns already gives them enough of an edge in battles. Besides, does anyone not use Mustadio as a Chemist? Snipe is a good enough secondary skillset to make him excessively useful.

[huthutchuck]

Speaking of chemist, can we make remedy and white magic esuna a cureall for everything?  Let it cure stop, don't move don't act...any stautus effect.  Chocobos can choco esuna  their way out of any status effect, how about give us a chance.  It sucks to watch a unit get stopped and can't do anything about it.

[Austin]

Chemists work well as they are imo, and esuna and remedies curing everything (except death) sounds good. You might want to make them both a tad more expensive (gil and mp wise) if you decide to do this though.

[Xifanie]

I have my own idea about it. We could make it cure all statuses. HOWEVER, it would be only 70% chance per status or something.

So if you want to cure poison, you better had learned antidote and have some in your inventory because the remedy might not work.

Actually I don't like how everything has 100% to cure, except esuna which is still pretty high. That makes statuses a joke except for the ones you can't cure easily (like blood suck & death sentence)

[VincentCraven]

So I assume it's possible to make items fail. It only makes sense. If a unit can fail in inflicting a status, the opposite should be true as well. Else we'd better make sets like Yin-Yang 100% accurate.

[Desocupado]

Chemists are good for their infallibility and fixed effects.
I assume a single status removal skill shouldn't fail... Most status, when inflicted, restrict or make a given unit waste 'at least' a single turn, if the skill used to cure it fails as well, that is a lot of wasted time.

As for remedy, another option would it remove status other items don't remove, which would be:
'Oil' (as if it made any difference)
Slow, Don't Move, Don't Act and Stop (which would need better chance to work as well)
Faith, Innocent and Sleep (a possible nerf to oracle, not really needed)
Charm and Invite (not really needed)
Well if it remove time magic effects, it might as well become like FFTA 'bandage' or need another name.

As for Esuna, the chance of failure seems fitting.
An idea that jut popped...
'What if cure could fail too?' "Would strengthen holy elemental make it hit more often?'

[huthutchuck]

I like the idea of remedy being 100% and Esuna having a high but not perfect probability of working.  Neither should "cure" faith or innocent.   Is their a "dispel" spell?  That in FF games has traditionally taken away status effects.

[VincentCraven]

Odd Soundwave

[huthutchuck]

Odd soundwave??? Really.  Man I need to brush up on the FFT bible.  Is it possible to make items more effective if a chemist uses them ala potion =30 but a potion from a chemist = 45.