Final Fantasy Hacktics

If anyone wants to see a SCC tourney sometime in August, I suppose we can do a quick one just for the fun of it. We won't need as many hosts as last time. And if so what kind of rules should we have?

Just to also clarify the difference between Round Robin and Swiss is Round Robin you face every other team in your block and the winners of the blocks moves on to the finals. We should try to have only 2 blocks of teams so that way we won't potential have any confusion as to whose facing who.

Rounds of Swiss is basically similar to have a block of teams except that whichever two teams wins faces each other next. In other whoever has the same record as each other faces each other next. I.E. one team is 1-0 and another is 1-0 they face off. Same with the two teams that are 0-1. Which ever team has the best record in their block face each other in the finals.

Any questions or comments are welcome

Sure, I would participate.

I am definately gonna join up i love to enjoy the tourney. Depending on how the rules are (basically as long as its not the only 1 skill per unit) i may have a team ready for testing already... yea i kinda got excited for it!~

Have I told you lately you're the hardest working man in arena, Barren?

well, you are and it's awesome.

Haven't voted yet, round robin is my favourite. More games, better averages.. but more work for you guys as well. If ya'll are cool with that then I'll vote round robin.

@ corosar: you may or may not know: 1 item/ ability, no jp means you can fully load out your units but you cannot use the same items or abilities  twice. innate don't count, so if you SCC ninja, everybody can have 2 swords and 8 different swords equipped between them. You would also be able to equip whatever abilities without worrying about JP.

yes... i understand what it meant... it would mean completely scraping the idea i had for a team though.. as half the team idea i had used the same ability twice.. and the other half used the same equipment.. in one or two places

*Edit* whelp from the looks of it... i am gonna have to come up with a new tactic already.... crap..

Quote from: Rouroni Elmdor on July 21, 2015, 09:29:41 am
Have I told you lately you're the hardest working man in arena, Barren?

well, you are and it's awesome.

Would we also allow anyone to be any job as was suggested in the other thread? Or will we be claiming the jobs for our specific team and forcing others to choose whatever's leftover like we did with the last one?

I'd think we go with the anyone can be any job, especially if we have more entrants than there are job classes.

Ah, I see.. bummer.

My bad, well whoever is confused doesn't have to be anymore. It does help to step outside the comfort zone and really challenge yourself, so I wouldn't mind unlimited JP 1 item/ability. But I voted standard round robin, so no use even slapping a team together until we've decided what we want to do.

Relax, my dragon friend, we have time.

okay crysis adverted... i managed to figure out a way to have the builds i wanted with both versions... so.. it should not be too terrible anymore for me still hope for the original over 1X though... but that is just me

Could mime be allowed on a team if there's a restriction set? I was thinking about forcing mimes to have the secondary of the team they're on. For example, a mime on a team of chemists has to have item, squires, basic skill, and so on. Is this asking too much? Is this the first SCC tournament in 139?  The way I see it, either way we go is a step up for mime compared to past SCC tournaments.

There was also discussion for future tournament seeding in the S5 arena thread. Would it be a good idea to start non-random brackets with this tournament?

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Also could we have multiple players look at stages? There were a couple of questionable stage in the tournament like Besrudio's House due to the object in the middle messing up AI, and maps where one player starts off with map advantage like Citadel of Igros Castle and Granary of Bethla Garrison.

Honestly if mimes are gonna be used as a primary i see no issues as them being forced on all four... though mixing them... kinda feels a bit OP if you think about it... a team with one unit and three mimes would have more abilities available to them would they not?

or am i mistaking that horribly?

Quote from: Jumza on July 21, 2015, 09:45:55 am
Would we also allow anyone to be any job as was suggested in the other thread? Or will we be claiming the jobs for our specific team and forcing others to choose whatever's leftover like we did with the last one?

I'd think we go with the anyone can be any job, especially if we have more entrants than there are job classes.

You can pick whatever class you want. I will allow more freedom for the participants involved. My only gripe about that is it might lack variety in terms of what classes are actually going to be used. But don't let that interfere with your choice. I'm fine with whatever everyone picks.

As far as mimes having different secondaries is completely fine. The brackets will be determined later.

@Shintroy: We can look at the maps again and whoever wants to post whichever map should be banned can present his or her case

Yes, depending on what rules Mimes have will completely change my strategy so please let me know.

You will know after 2 weeks.I would like to give everyone a chance to let their opinions be made and after I get back from my cousin's wedding I'll be around to get the SCC tourney going

I'm in. I even have a team in mind

Just a quick tip: For those who might feel a bit restricted on item choices assuming we settle with the no jp cap rule, you can use equip armor on one of your units. That way you can get around with picking the ones you want

Im in. I vote double elimination and regular tourney rules otherwise.

Is it one person to a class? Do we claim them or just pick any class? Are we being assigned classes via rng?

As I told Jumza here you are free to pick whatever class you desire. But you must stick with that one class. For example a team of four wizards or four samurais

Mime is a tough call. for those who don't know: mimes can't mimic other mimes, so SCC mime will do you no favors. If it's 1 item/ability, then I say mime is allowed. If it's standard then ban them.

..Really tough call..

regarding maps: there is always a thread with the maps being used and the option to contest any non banned map. In our last tournament we had all the maps from first match to last laid out for all to look at, so take your chance to state your opinion. After that, all is fair.

I'd vote for Round Robin + 1 Item & Ability. But if I'd rather have the 1 item over round robin

I'll toss my hat in as interested, but I'll have little time to play test... Anyone willing to walk a noob through the team creation process :). (Also 4 Mimes... I have visions of match 3 or 4 from this last season in my head... So much Megaflare.)

Are we expecting a update to Arena??

Quote from: gatebuster202 on July 21, 2015, 11:28:50 am
I'll toss my hat in as interested, but I'll have little time to play test... Anyone willing to walk a noob through the team creation process :). (Also 4 Mimes... I have visions of match 3 or 4 from this last season in my head... So much Megaflare.)

Are we expecting a update to Arena??

Welcome gatebuster202! You can make your own team with help from the Master's Guide (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=6483.0)There are rules to follow when posting your team so keep that in mind. If you are unfamiliar to how to make a team then read this. (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=8637.0) To generate your team you download the microsoft excel file that is in the FFT Arena 1.39c thread (http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?topic=5625.0) and simply follow the instructions from there. You will need PPF-O-Matic to patch FFT Arena onto a clean ISO file of Final Fantasy Tactics. There is also a spreadsheet from microsoft excel that allows you to generate teams. PM me or any other member if you are having issues. Once you are set you can post your team in the teams submissions thread for regular arena matches. As far as entering the tournament when I get back in a couple of weeks I'll be accepting team submissions via PM

We should be ready to update Arena sometime towards the end of the year (hopefully, as long as FFMaster will be around to make the changes)

Maybe we could allow one mime max per team that has the rest of the team's main skillset as a forced secondary (not effecting the mimes R/S/M though). I would agree to that. A team with 2 or 3 mimes is definitely pushing it.

Quote from: Barren on July 21, 2015, 11:05:59 am
As I told Jumza here you are free to pick whatever class you desire. But you must stick with that one class. For example a team of four wizards or four samurais

So there is no limit to one participant per class? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
What's stopping the tourney consisting of 7 people picking samurai, 6 people picking geomancer, and 6 people picking white mage and we have a tourney showcasing 3 classes.
The only way I can see this working is limiting it to 2 participants per each class available. But even then... people picking their class earlier may have an "advantage".

I feel like limiting the amount of people allowed to pick any one class is best. But then having us being able to CHOOSE our class sucks for those who don't get an early pick and may end up with a class they don't like.

I think having RNG decide out fate with what classes we get, limited to one/two participants per class, would be best.

Unless I am interpreting this incorrectly.

edit: On the mime issue. One per team with a forced secondary of your primary class would be okay with me.

I think that having one mime per team is fine because we don't want the game to crash.

Thanks Barren, your doing an awesome job as organizer. If you need help with recording, PM me the specifics of what and how, and I'll give it a shot as I'm team building. (Or point me to a relevant thread). I've been lurking around for a few years and watched arena grow, so it will be fun to participate.

Hopefully Arena will inspire my brain, as my patch is mostly done on the ability front, and I need ideas on balancing it. (And while this is competitive, and totally different, it will give me way more AI exposure.)

@Mudvayne - I can, kind of, agree. However setting up a limit up front might be restrictive as well. How bout we open a second thread and start discussing who might want a particular class, and then we will see if their is (alot of) overlap. Two or three of any class should be fine. (Maybe the first four of a class once registration opens.)

Edit: We have interest from at least 12 people as of right now? And Round Robin currently has the most votes in two forms. So, (and this can expand based on participants.) we can do, three of a given class. And they get locked into a "round" together so only the best wins. Or, we do four and they are forced into seperate rounds from each other with no overlap. (4 "rounds" are easy to manage as well.) Of, course, Swiss and Regular would be more effected by an OP class in the meta.

Quote from: gatebuster202 on July 21, 2015, 11:59:12 am
Thanks Barren, your doing an awesome job as organizer. If you need help with recording, PM me the specifics of what and how, and I'll give it a shot as I'm team building. (Or point me to a relevant thread). I've been lurking around for a few years and watched arena grow, so it will be fun to participate.

Hopefully Arena will inspire my brain, as my patch is mostly done on the ability front, and I need ideas on balancing it. (And while this is competitive, and totally different, it will give me way more AI exposure.)

@Mudvayne - I can, kind of, agree. However setting up a limit up front might be restrictive as well. How bout we open a second thread and start discussing who might want a particular class, and then we will see if their is (alot of) overlap. Two or three of any class should be fine. (Maybe the first four of a class once registration opens.)

I think it will be fair yea

I'd be down for round robin 1 ability/item.

Don't like the 2 class only though.. seems unfair, though I'd be surprised if anybody wants to do what I do.

@ Barren: All good, man. Part of why these turn out so great is the effort that goes into them, this is seriously the coolest site ever. My opinion is heard, let's hear the rest of em'

Quote from: Rouroni Elmdor on July 21, 2015, 12:44:23 pm
I'd be down for round robin 1 ability/item.

Don't like the 2 class only though.. seems unfair, though I'd be surprised if anybody wants to do what I do.

Well this was something that gatebuster and mudvayne brought up and I figured I can at least ask everyone if they would like that sort of ruling. If more people would rather not, then let's not fix what's not broken.

I just want to have a tournament where everyone will be happy

Honestly, it's more about seeing a broader group of classes and wanting people to think out of the box. (Though Oracle and Squire will see little love anyway.)

I'd love to see what variations of 4 thieves everyone else can come up with or four ninjas with equip abuses... But in all honesty, I fear that we'd have four classes in close competition and everyone else would be SoL. I personally wanted to see what I could do with Monk, Archer or Geomancer. Only one of those classes would be a strong, easy SCC pick. (Monks=Something for everything.)

An alternative. We can ban three classes. One high speed class, one high MA Class, one high PA Class. These classes are only banned as the SCC pick. You are still free to use them as secondaries.

I think having every class be used by someone is a must. I would like to see every class showcased, assuming we have enough players registered for the tourney, of course, but I don't think that will be the issue.

Having every class showcased in something like a SCC tourney will be great for taking notes for the next set of updates we want implemented into arena. Every class will be shown, and every class will then be able to demonstrate its strengths and weaknesses. Honestly I don't feel like any class is at an inherit advantage strictly due to it being a SCC tourney, most classes are flexible and able to fill more than just 1 role on a team. If we are also allowing 1 mime per team? Yeah... we need to have every class be used by someone.

Sorry, Mudvayne I meant my post to go in the other thread. While I can agree, in liking to see everyone post a different class, I also know we are a hyper competitive bunch who would rather not be saddled with a "disadvantage". And yes randoming out a class to people who've never used it would suck.

(If I got squire or Oracle I'd be very perplexed at how to make their skillsets effective on four characters + secondaries.)

So let me get this straight. Does this use the rules from vanilla FFT where we can only use abilities from the class we pick? Sounds interesting, but making a team of all geomancers sounds like quite the challenge if I can't put any revival on them.

Not a SSCC, (Stright Single Class Chalenge) just a Single Class Challenge. (So youvstill get secondaries.

Here's an example of what can happen if we have the SCC tourney to be contested with the No JP cap rule + 1x ability + equip

I'm with Mudvayne: Ensure that an equal number of players choose each job.  Single-character challenges are inherently imbalanced, so we should place the focus on creativity over competition.  Otherwise, only the most versatile classes will be chosen.

Of course, some teams will be weaker than others.  This is why I vote for a Swiss tournament; even if you lose every game, you still get to enjoy watching your team compete until the end of the tournament.

As for assigning classes, we could allow players to provide their first and second (and possibly third) choice of class, then assign by lottery.

I can't say that I am a big fan of 1 item/ability restrictions.  SCC requires four units to share the same primary skillset.  If only one unit can learn each ability within that skillset, then there's going to be wasted potential among the remaining units.

Quote from: Gaignun on July 21, 2015, 03:04:51 pm
I'm with Mudvayne: Ensure that an equal number of players choose each job.  Single-character challenges are inherently imbalanced, so we should place the focus on creativity over competition.  Otherwise, only the most versatile classes will be chosen.

Of course, some teams will be weaker than others.  This is why I vote for a Swiss tournament; even if you lose every game, you still get to enjoy watching your team compete until the end of the tournament.

As for assigning classes, we could allow players to provide their first and second (and possibly third) choice of class, then assign by lottery.

I can't say that I am a big fan of 1 item/ability restrictions.  SCC requires four units to share the same primary skillset.  If only one unit can learn each ability within that skillset, then there's going to be wasted potential among the remaining units.

Would you rather have 2 abilities + 1 item then?

For SCC, I would prefer the standard 2 abilities + 2 items.  However, if the majority wants to play with more restrictions, then settling for 2 abilities + 1 item would be OK.

As of now I have updated the second rule choice for this tournament.  Having a SCC team with no jp cap and 2x abilities + 1 item adds more flexibility and takes away some pressure for players to enter. If you are using 4 geomancers or 4 chemists then 2 of them can at least have their nearly full skillet (in the case of geomancers all of it).

And would everyone be okay with picking 3 classes and have one of them be chosen at random?

As much as I want everyone to be their favorite class I do admittedly also want variety of classes to be seen encouraging different combos of full class teams like the ones I demonstrated in my video

Well i am already fixated on my choice of having summoners as my team.... i am sorry if this seems shallow but... i will back out if i am unable to do so... summoner and wizard has always been my personal favorite classes.

You can still have summoner or wizard. What gaignun was suggesting was that you can pick two of your favorite classes then between the two classes you picked its a lottery pick then between summoner and wizard are your chances. Like a 50/50 chance

Quote from: Corosar on July 21, 2015, 04:09:24 pm
Well i am already fixated on my choice of having summoners as my team.... i am sorry if this seems shallow but... i will back out if i am unable to do so... summoner and wizard has always been my personal favorite classes.

I don't think you have much to worry about. Could be wrong, but I think that there won't be too many people wanting a Summoner primary so I'm sure you'll be fine.

As far as classes, I'm trying to choose different ones that I usually don't on purpose. I want to try to maximize the effect.

Quote from: gatebuster202 on July 21, 2015, 01:13:59 pm
Sorry, Mudvayne I meant my post to go in the other thread. While I can agree, in liking to see everyone post a different class, I also know we are a hyper competitive bunch who would rather not be saddled with a "disadvantage". And yes randoming out a class to people who've never used it would suck.

(If I got squire or Oracle I'd be very perplexed at how to make their skillsets effective on four characters + secondaries.)

Squires are actually pretty good in Arena. Their stats are decent enough to make them fit well with a lot of secondaries, and their equipment choices are excellent.

Oracles aren't bad, either. Rouroni Elmdor's has an all Oracle team that does pretty well (admittedly, they are two sets of twins so with the unique item and ability rule, they'd have to change.)

Actually, I think some of the more challenging classes would be Paladin, Archer, Dancer and Time Mage. (Mime as well, though depending on rules they may be well represented regardless.)

I think before forcing people to do something, we should get volunteers to use certain classes that will likely be under represented, knowing that if they pick a saturated class, theres a very real chance they may have to change. I've got about four teams already, and I plan on only posting the least saturated class of the four (though that will still depend on the final mime rule.)

Some of this could be helped too by posting your first and second class choice ahead of time. This will help get a potential tally.

My planned team was gonna have

Summoner/Wizard
Summoner/Wizard
Summoner/Oracle
Summoner/Priest

as i kinda said... i am fixated with summoners... i know they are not the best units but they are fun to me!~

I think that will be fine silentkaster. Like he said corosar it really isn't "you can't have this class because someone else has it" type of rule.

I'm only asking for variety because I like seeing people using different classes instead of multiples of the same class used. You picking summoner is perfectly fine corosar. I hope that cleared things up for you

Yea it clears up quite a bit thanks! i just kinda wanted to have the class... already been trying to figure stuff out around them

Quote from: silentkaster on July 21, 2015, 04:34:33 pm
I don't think you have much to worry about. Could be wrong, but I think that there won't be too many people wanting a Summoner primary so I'm sure you'll be fine.

As far as classes, I'm trying to choose different ones that I usually don't on purpose. I want to try to maximize the effect.

Squires are actually pretty good in Arena. Their stats are decent enough to make them fit well with a lot of secondaries, and their equipment choices are excellent.

Oracles aren't bad, either. Rouroni Elmdor's has an all Oracle team that does pretty well (admittedly, they are two sets of twins so with the unique item and ability rule, they'd have to change.)

Actually, I think some of the more challenging classes would be Paladin, Archer, Dancer and Time Mage. (Mime as well, though depending on rules they may be well represented regardless.)

I think before forcing people to do something, we should get volunteers to use certain classes that will likely be under represented, knowing that if they pick a saturated class, theres a very real chance they may have to change. I've got about four teams already, and I plan on only posting the least saturated class of the four (though that will still depend on the final mime rule.)

Some of this could be helped too by posting your first and second class choice ahead of time. This will help get a potential tally.

Squires can fill any role and do them well.

I already have a team of four Squires posted, but I'd prefer to make a new one if I can use Squires for this.

I too have a team of squires though a different version I have I did not yet post.

Also I have PM'd Gaignun about the different opinions on the rules for this tourney. Hopefully we can all come into agreement of a ruling that everyone will be fine with. If everyone feels we all should pick their class then we shall go with it.

Also, if mimes are allowed, I'd suggest that if the rule sticks that you are able to use two copies of an ability, that if a team uses a Mime, they can have only one copy of the ability on all units. The reason for this was really derived for "brokenness", specifically, Quickening. Essentially, with a mime, three units would have Quickening. But it could also be applied to Battle Song, Accumulate, Last Dance, etc.

I'll totally volunteer to take an underused/unused class and make a team out of them, by the way. While I already have four teams I created, and they are with classes that I don't think will be highly used, if a class remains totally unused or underused, I'll make a team of that particular class if asked to as my submission for the tournament (except a Mime team...but like I said, I think they're going to be well represented anyway based on what people are currently saying, and even if they're not, this class has a huge disadvantage since Mimes can't mime mimes [as CT5Holy has made us aware of :D], can't equip weapons [reliably] and have poor stats in general.)

Quote from: silentkaster on July 21, 2015, 05:12:54 pm
Also, if mimes are allowed, I'd suggest that if the rule sticks that you are able to use two copies of an ability, that if a team uses a Mime, they can have only one copy of the ability on all units. The reason for this was really derived for "brokenness", specifically, Quickening. Essentially, with a mime, three units would have Quickening. But it could also be applied to Battle Song, Accumulate, Last Dance, etc.

I'll totally volunteer to take an underused/unused class and make a team out of them, by the way. While I already have four teams I created, and they are with classes that I don't think will be highly used, if a class remains totally unused or underused, I'll make a team of that particular class if asked to as my submission for the tournament (except a Mime team...but like I said, I think they're going to be well represented anyway based on what people are currently saying, and even if they're not, this class has a huge disadvantage since Mimes can't mime mimes [as CT5Holy has made us aware of :D], can't equip weapons [reliably] and have poor stats in general.)

Mimes don't mime each other, though.

A team of four mimes loses their main quirk.

I kinda agree with silentkaster about the mimes they could be considered having all the skills at once for a more balanced reason... if it makes sense.

I also would like to use an under-used class, but I don't want to feel like I'm at a disadvantage going up against say 5 different teams of samurais.

I feel like stat wise, squire geomancer and samurai are going to be the 3 best classes since they can all fill both a melee and a magical role quite well. I would say those would be MY top 3 picks, at least.

I think 2x item/2x ability, no JP cap is going to be the best way to do this. Why are we so fixated on limiting to 1 item or 1 ability? That isn't fun to me. I have 4 geomancers but only one unit is going to be able to even use the skillset, and only one unit using counter flood? Not fun, won't participate.

I honestly agree we should have 2x Abilities but 2x items with no jp cap... could cause issues i feel.. 1x or 2x items i am fine with but we need those duplicate abilities for a SCC or... well we kinda end up helpless

Quote from: Mudvayne on July 21, 2015, 05:32:57 pm
I also would like to use an under-used class, but I don't want to feel like I'm at a disadvantage going up against say 5 different teams of samurais.

I feel like stat wise, squire geomancer and samurai are going to be the 3 best classes since they can all fill both a melee and a magical role quite well. I would say those would be MY top 3 picks, at least.

I think 2x item/2x ability, no JP cap is going to be the best way to do this. Why are we so fixated on limiting to 1 item or 1 ability? That isn't fun to me. I have 4 geomancers but only one unit is going to be able to even use the skillset, and only one unit using counter flood? Not fun, won't participate.

Barren abolished the one ability rule from that particular ruleset. Now, two copies of an ability can appear on any unit, but only one item if those rules are chosen.

The one item rule is there to balance the No JP cap...while you can buy any ability you want and stack them however you want, your equipment must differ.

The reason I suggested that any team with a Mime only gets one copy of the ability is because I'm really not interested in seeing an all Monk team with two users having Quickening with a Mime mimicking. I'm also not interested in seeing a Scholar earth absorb team where they can simultaneously cast four Quakes on an enemy team, especially when equipment for everyone is limited and rules are limited.

Finally, I'd like to ask if we can all agree to stop saying, "I won't participate if..." because this makes people feel ashamed of suggesting a rule or forcing them to compromise because someone refuses to participate based on something. If you don't want to participate based on a suggestion or rule, don't, and if you have some insight on a rule that you think may or may not be good, feel free to share, but please don't make someone feel bad for suggesting or supporting a rule by saying you won't participate if it's passed. As I said, I'm completely willing to make a team of any class except all Mimes and use it as my submission even if it's a class I had never even considered. And if the tournament really really needed it, I'd even try my hand at an all Mime team. There may be some rules I disagree with, but since I already said I was participating, I definitely will regardless of what is chosen, and I'll take as much advantage of the rules chosen as possible.

Quote from: Reks on July 21, 2015, 05:14:44 pm
Mimes don't mime each other, though.

A team of four mimes loses their main quirk.

What a coincidence, I was just thinking about how funny it would be if someone designed an all mime team. Can mimes still mimic actions from charmed units? If so it would be hilarious if an all mime team made good use out of that (and stupid because it would probably backfire).

Quote from: silentkaster on July 21, 2015, 05:49:07 pm
Barren abolished the one ability rule from that particular ruleset. Now, two copies of an ability can appear on any unit, but only one item if those rules are chosen.

The one item rule is there to balance the No JP cap...while you can buy any ability you want and stack them however you want, your equipment must differ.

The reason I suggested that any team with a Mime only gets one copy of the ability is because I'm really not interested in seeing an all Monk team with two users having Quickening with a Mime mimicking. I'm also not interested in seeing a Scholar earth absorb team where they can simultaneously cast four Quakes on an enemy team, especially when equipment for everyone is limited and rules are limited.

Finally, I'd like to ask if we can all agree to stop saying, "I won't participate if..." because this makes people feel ashamed of suggesting a rule or forcing them to compromise because someone refuses to participate based on something. If you don't want to participate based on a suggestion or rule, don't, and if you have some insight on a rule that you think may or may not be good, feel free to share, but please don't make someone feel bad for suggesting or supporting a rule by saying you won't participate if it's passed. As I said, I'm completely willing to make a team of any class except all Mimes and use it as my submission even if it's a class I had never even considered. And if the tournament really really needed it, I'd even try my hand at an all Mime team. There may be some rules I disagree with, but since I already said I was participating, I definitely will regardless of what is chosen, and I'll take as much advantage of the rules chosen as possible.

I never said i won't participate if... i said i would have to back out... i don't like giving others the feeling that i refuse to partake in a tourney if the rules are unsatisfactory... but i am still new to this and i rather try and use what i know i have a small chance of not being lawnmowed  instead of being bowled over simply because i don't understand a mechanic with a unit class i am forced under.. its why i stated that i would have had to back out under those conditions... sorry if i came off as selfish for it... i am again still new to the system and am still learning alot. but with the recent idea of choosing two classes and being picked between the two is something that helps compensate enough for me to not feel like a third wheel..

Quote from: Corosar on July 21, 2015, 06:18:48 pm
I never said i won't participate if... i said i would have to back out... i don't like giving others the feeling that i refuse to partake in a tourney if the rules are unsatisfactory... but i am still new to this and i rather try and use what i know i have a small chance of not being lawnmowed  instead of being bowled over simply because i don't understand a mechanic with a unit class i am forced under.. its why i stated that i would have had to back out under those conditions... sorry if i came off as selfish for it... i am again still new to the system and am still learning alot. but with the recent idea of choosing two classes and being picked between the two is something that helps compensate enough for me to not feel like a third wheel..

It is a very valid point and personally, I agree with you. I honestly would like all of the more experienced players to choose classes that are much less popular. It evens the playing field a bit and showcases abilities. But if Barren kicks my butt with his all scholar team (as an example) because I'm forced to use an all lancer team (I think Jump is the worst skill set but more on that in another thread), i am okay with that. I personally think that new players should be given first "dibs" on classes if we choose to make a rule about having duplicate classes.

In any event, I'm just asking that we avoid saying outright we won't participate if...
I think it is certainly fine to imply that, and I think general discussion of rules, especially ones that could possibly impact participation is necessary, but to outright say it could potentially make people scared to suggest something, so I believe it is better to just discuss the rule and take a consensus without the knowledge of whether people will participate or they won't based on a certain rule.

As I said though earlier though, I'm pretty sure Summoner is all yours Corosar :)

Well there is a way around that mudvayne. You can have someone with a full elemental skillset and the other have counter flood. And by two abilities I do mean you can have two units with counter flood and elemental. The reason for the one item clause is that people are going to continue use the same items because they are the predominant choices.

Like who uses two platinum swords or a two handed ultima weapon? No one. That's the point of the one item clause. If everyone would rather see regular Arena rules with the jp cap gone then I will gladly make that exception. But right now nothing is set in stone. There is still time to discuss the rules

I wanted to have Archers with a Mime/Snipe thrown in somewhere. I think it's fine to allow mimes on a team if they're restricted to have their secondary match the team they're on. I can see most mimes not even having secondary skills learned.

The only thing that I really disliked was the 1x ability on a SCC tourney. You have 4 units in the same class and only one unit can use each particular skill. That just doesn't seem like a good rule. 2x ability is fine.
1x item I can live with for variety sake. In fact the more I think about it I think that is actually a great rule but it would be paired better if each class was required to be used in the tourney assuming we have enough participants, but I digress.

I will participate anyways. Do not get the wrong impression from me. Sorry if I came off wrong in my previous post.

Yea I changed that because it would not be fair to have let's say a team of chemists and only one can use Phoenix Down. That is dumb now that I realize it. With the  rule change I made hopefully people can feel better about it.

It's okay mudvayne. I just figured you might have had the wrong impression and I wanted to explain why the 1x item rule is good since its no jp cap. I'm not trying to come off as mean, I just wanted to make sure we were clear. Besides past is past my friend

Regular Double Elimination Rules + No JP Cap & 2x Ability/1x Item Only Rules

This is the best option. I think it's going to continue to be voted as the best option as well. We should open registration soon to see who all is participating.

The interest is here. This post exploded. The only thing I can see being conflicting would be agreeing on how we go about picking classes and limiting the number of people using one particular class. I think limiting it to 2 or 3 would be best regardless of the size of the turn out.

Well, if we're calling dibs, I want Lancer, Mediator or oracle.

.. I'm having troubles deciding, I could potentially prevent anyone from talking smack about oracles again..
.. but lancers are so cool. Will make a regular season with lancer if I don't here.

If we're talking dibs then we should probably open up -another- topic (despite there being so many) to keep everything organized :P

Well if everyone likes the rule they voted for and would not mind the class picking then having it randomized bewteen them then I can end this poll early. Otherwise I can give this poll until Friday since this all of a sudden became such a much talked about subject

Quote from: Jumza on July 21, 2015, 09:12:51 pm
If we're talking dibs then we should probably open up -another- topic (despite there being so many) to keep everything organized :P

That was the SCC pick was meant to be but it got a little out of hand. We should just use that one so it won't be so cluttered

I'm cool with that if it'll get things moving, didn't mean to give a hard time about it. By the looks of things, most people are choosing lesser used classes, so that's good.

Thanks for taking the time to organize everything, barren!

(and thanks for the shout out, silentkaster. I love my oracles)

I am very much okay with the current voted rules i would be alright moving onto the next step!

I think everyone posting say 3 classes they are interested in and then having RNG decide your fate on one of the three classes. No limitation to how many players per class since I would say that little RNG factor will make things a little more fair.

>~< oh crap i only have two ideas with classes... and one is more than the other... i prefer to have summoner... but if i have to RNG it.... i could do Wizard... and hmm..... i... i don't knew enough of the other classes... maybe.... urmm... b...bard/Dancer.... maybe? do they count as seperate or the same?

Well in that case we can determine what you get by the RNG whether its a multiple of 5, 4 or Prime Number. Is that fair to everyone?

Quote from: Barren on July 21, 2015, 09:59:13 pm
Well in that case we can determine what you get by the RNG whether its a multiple of 5, 4 or Prime Number. Is that fair to everyone?

sorry i am confused huh?

What I'll do is take your three picks and then determine if that pick is going to be a number that is a multiple of 5, 4 or prime number on random.org

If anyone has a different idea on how to do it please post here. I'm open to sugesstions

Sounds great. Seems fair and I think it's a solid way to do things.

Barren, I would suggest having people number their choices in order from what they'd prefer the most to least. If too many people pick one class, then The order they finished in the regular season tournament (reversed) determines who "wins" their first choice (so the lower you placed, the higher chance you have of getting your first pick if there are many duplicates) with those who didn't participate in the tournament getting ranked the same as someone who finished at the bottom of the tournament.

Why you might ask? It is likely that newer and inexperienced players were eliminated early. Let these players have more of an advantage with a class they're comfortable with, while more experienced and seasoned players get more of a challenge with building their team.

Just my thoughts to give new players a little boost if you will :)

Edit: this post may have come too late as it was already decided.

I agree with you, silentkaster.

I'll make oracle my primary (odd) mediator secondary (even) and ya'll can have lancer if you want it.

If I can get a stream going I will post a link in the stream day topic. If I can't then next best thing is everyone to come onto the chat room and we can get started with the random drawing. Reason for the stream is that way people can see what number you'll get

That sounds fun actually!

Quote from: Barren on July 22, 2015, 05:32:25 am
If I can get a stream going I will post a link in the stream day topic. If I can't then next best thing is everyone to come onto the chat room and we can get started with the random drawing. Reason for the stream is that way people can see what number you'll get

I wouldn't be able to, unfortunately.

Can't do streams.

Reks, I think, Barren will just upload the stream when done. (I could be wrong.) But that seems like the fastest way to do it. If not, (And he wants us on a chat.) I can be available at any point tomorrow or Friday. (Work and Sick Child means I'm busy all day today.)

Someone can always pull for me. OR we can do this like PbP RPGs and go to Invisible Castle, Name a Character and roll a d20 Using that to pick your team from your choice.

Everyone can see the roll because it's archived. OR Barren can Roll us all the rolls to prevent us from waiting to get the roll we want, and using our username as the character name. Then link the rolls.

1d20=3 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4834461/) Sample Roll

http://invisiblecastle.com/

@Barren, I can do this for everyone but myself if you would like? And IF everyone is ok with me assisting in TO. Take me about an hour and I'd have it up before Noon GMT -5

If you want to help out that would be great. I was thinking about getting a stream going either tomorrow or friday. Or at least try or get s stream going. Let me know you are ready

I haven't done a stream or participated in one (aside from watching) so PM me details. I'll communicate from work via phone/PM. (My daughter just has a cold, so everyone at my house needs to chill and let me do stuff!)

The Biggest issue for reks is their network recently has been unstable. They simply don't have the bandwidth to watch a stream.

In that case I can also use Skype if you would like to screen share. My skype name is barren87 if anyone wants to send me a friend invite. Reks already has my skype name

Hmm.. I work nights, so I need to sleep during the day to keep my vampiric skin perfect and beautiful.

Likely ya'll will be up past my bedtime, so let me know if I draw mediator or oracle if I can't make it, but I'll try.

Quote from: Rouroni Elmdor on July 22, 2015, 09:40:38 pm
Hmm.. I work nights, so I need to sleep during the day to keep my vampiric skin perfect and beautiful.

Likely ya'll will be up past my bedtime, so let me know if I draw mediator or oracle if I can't make it, but I'll try.

Gotta make sure that coffin is nice and warm.... wait...

joking aside i don't think we will keep it hidden from you for long!