FFT: ASM'D main info/discussion

[Aquilae]

Elemental is hardly amazing. Damage isn't good (even with PA + 4 / 2 instead of PA + 2 / 2) and statuses are uncommon and shouldn't be relied upon. I'd use it if only for status proc, but it needs too specialised a setup to even match normal attack damage.

[iopyud]

Okay, I skimmed through everything and I have a bunch of suggestions:

1.) Potion = 45 HP, Hi Potion = 80 HP, X Pot = 160 Hp

2.) Change "Auto Potion" to "Auto Cure 2" OMFG LOLOLLO PWNENNDNED

3.) Basic Skill SUCKS, man. Sure it's pretty neat to have but as soon as you get something else, you forget it entirely while its counterpart "Item" still gets used until Chapter 4.

I like the the idea of Dash doing random damage, how's about 100% casting interruption? You're nerfing movements anyway and besides, it'll feel more "strategic". >_>
As for Throw Stone, how about 3 panels, 40% confuse? It'll be like Charm.

Otherwise people will just equip Item or Steal or something.

4.) Gafgarog: Didn't you know, Agrias? His name is Ramza Beoulve, the youngest shota of the Beoulve brothers. I bet you're wet now, you fucking whore.

5.) Gafgarog duel.

Ramza: Wait here, I'll squeeze one off and open the gate.
Gafgarion: I don't know how you got in but you didn't notice an ambush. Oh... and your jokes are tasteless.
*Enemy units appear*
Gafgarion: Ramza, it's me you must fight with. Teleport's been taken out, you can't cheese your way out of this one that easily. HEAVEN OR HELL DUEL LET'S ROCK.

6.) Wiegraf: Draw your sword Ramza.
     Ramza: I may be a heretic but that doesn't mean I'm gay. Not that I hate them or anything...
     Wiegraf: What's wrong? If you don't... I will.
     Ramza: Miluda will be disappointed, here you are surrounded by women during our past fights, and now you're suddenly
                 asking me to "draw my sword?"
     Wiegraf: Miluda? Who gives a damn about that bitch? She couldn't tell a cock from a stick if it hit her in the face.
     Ramza: Okay. Mental image. Ugh.
     
     *After beating him*

Wiegraf: Let's have it out here... *breathing heavily*... oh yeaaah. Feels good, man.

7.) Warn's stupid.

8.) Make this an official update for the original 1.3 LOLOLOLEOLA

9.) I like Teleport working like Defend. Can it cost a shitload of MP? It seems positioning will be vital in this mod.

10.) Angry Delita? ... oh by the way, I fucked your sister. I shot her because she got pregnant. If she gave good head, I probably would've let her live................. NOT!

Elemental is hardly amazing. Damage isn't good (even with PA + 4 / 2 instead of PA + 2 / 2) and statuses are uncommon and shouldn't be relied upon. I'd use it if only for status proc, but it needs too specialised a setup to even match normal attack damage.

Probably why they had that range in Vanilla.

EDIT: Love the spoof intro.

[philsov]

1.) Potion = 45 HP, Hi Potion = 80 HP, X Pot = 160 Hp

Too good.  It's hard to reconcile chemist healing with auto-potion, sadly.  On one hand, I'd like to see a chemist able to heal moderately well without elixir.  but on the other, that much will be how much auto-potion heals for, and with those numbers it's completely ludicrious.  Check out the 3rd (or 4th) video of golgarond with AP + hi potions available.  

2.) Change "Auto Potion" to "Auto Cure 2" omfsa LOLOLLO PWNENNDNED

No can do.  But a defensive reaction that's faith-based, MA-based, and costs MP?  I'd sooner swing for auto-chakra.  

3.) Basic Skill SUCKS, man. Sure it's pretty neat to have but as soon as you get something else, you forget it entirely while its counterpart "Item" still gets used until Chapter 4.

With wish and cheer up, I find it a very usuable skillset.  Moreso than item, tbh.  I agree it could use some more offense, though.  I'll see if I can swing the dash suggestion, but throw stone adding status?  Bleh, no.

7.) Warn's stupid.

Would giving it a 1 panel AoE be too good?  Hm.  Also I can see it being of good value with the mechanics present -- double evasion from weapon/class evasion and reduced physical damage on your point man?  KICK.  ASS.

9.) I like Teleport working like Defend. Can it cost a shitload of MP? It seems positioning will be vital in this mod.

The ideas were kicked around but the ASM coding was never posted.  Alas.  

you can't cheese your way out of this one that easily

My favorite cheese is the black choco ferry

Probably why they had that range in Vanilla.  

and they are keeping 4 range for this patch.

8 range = Worker 8 dispose (!)
6 range = Guns
5 range = late-game long bows, jump, kikui, earth slash, holy explosion
4 range = all x-bows, early game long bows, elemental, holy, flare
3 range = almost all ranged abilities/spells, harps, books
2 range = spears, sticks, carpet, basic-level defensive spells
1 range = meleeeeeee

We should put that typo from 1.3 into effect and allow Counter Magic to be used against Elemental, I think.

Don't think it'll cause too many ripples, and as is counter magic sucks (unless it's on a flotiball~).  Why not?

[Sephirot24]

100% Cancel Charging is too good.
Auto chakra sounds interesting, but not interesting enough to replace Auto Potion. You gotta keep auto potion, as it's a great method of self healing and doesn't take into account Fa, MA or PA.

[philsov]

100% Cancel Charging is too good.

Possibly.  But half the time if you're caught charging in melee range you're outright killed.  All this does is give the option to other builds not capable of immediate and insane melee damage, and canceling charge is far weaker than outright killing something.

Plus the current dash at 25% cancel charge isn't ever worth doing.

Auto chakra sounds interesting, but not interesting enough to replace Auto Potion. You gotta keep auto potion, as it's a great method of self healing and doesn't take into account Fa, MA or PA.

indeed, but the kicker with the current form of auto-potion is it still relies on your potion item inventory.  And here's the list of things that potions (or any items, for that matter) can turn into.

01 = 1 * WP damage!
02 = WP*WP damage with 25% chance to cast ability/spell (rigging up potion to cast holy is pretty funny when combined with auto-potion!)
03 = WP*WP damage
04 = weak faith-based ice damage
05 = WP*WP damage, 25% chance to inflict status off status table
06 = drain WP*WP damage
07 = Heal WP*WP
09+ = MA% chance to inflict status/quick/ct00/all health but 1/all MP damage (ew)
14 = Golem (with some pretty funky success #'s)
1E/1F = single-target single-hit with truth or untruth formula (quadratic MA!) damage (440 damage from a mage at level 99)
20 = 0 damage, 25% status proc
24 = elemental formula, [PA / 2] * MA damage + status proc
25 = weapon strike
2D = PA * WP, 100% status
31 = [PA/2] * PA damage
32 = PA*3 damage
33 = PA% chance to inflict (ew)
38 = 100% status infliction
3C = Wish (heal 40%, receive 20% damage)
3E = 100% hp-1 damage (OP!)
43 = Shock (max hp - cur hp damage)
44 = damage HP = current MP (kinda cool, imo, but OP for the player at zodiacs)
45 = Climhazard (targets max - current) damage
52 = self descruct (complete with 100% status) -- imagine auto-potion THEN.
60 = truth formula + 6.25% status
63 = SP*WP damage (throw)

And of these, most of these cause damage or have a crap % chance to work.  Only things worthwhile for auto-potion are 100% status (auto-haste/protect/shell, e.g.), self-wish (really it's a 20% self heal), and the traditional potions, which are going to be 30% anyways.  

Some would be really awesome as special enemy-only counter abilities, like auto self-destruct on a ??? enemy or an auto-MBarrier effect, but I'm not willing to sacrifice Auto-Potion for such a minor thing.

Additionally, I can make the status-curing items also heal a little bit of HP as well, using the Pheonix down formula (rando between 1 and XX HP), which would be another cool little twist to item, as it'll be the only skills that restore status (albeit single target) and restore health (albeit random and non scaling) at the same time.

Auto-chakra is something that can be pulled off with counter tackle, though counter spin fist is too cool not to have.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

8 range Dispose in this hack seems ridiculous.

I mean, it goes through walls too and has infinite vertical.

Unless you're lowering Worker 8's power (meh) or making his less-than-stellar Speed even more less-than-stellar than it already is.

Auto Remedy sounds cool, but also seems like it wouldn't be used much as the statuses worth using a Remedy on disable Reactions.  Giving status curing Items (read: Remedy, Holy Water) the Phoenix Down HP formula as well seems fine, I think.

Auto Haste seems cool, though potentially OP.  

I had a random idea, though.  Auto Undead.  Not sure how useful it would be, but seems cool and I found myself casting Undead on myself a few times in my regular 1.3 playthrough.

Finger Guard could be replaced by Auto Chakra or something though, imo, if you're going to be lazy and not get someone to make Auto Reflect work.  

[philsov]

8 range Dispose in this hack seems ridiculous.

Well he can't equip anything with +move, equips or abilities.  It's really no different than a 4 movement gunner, except he's a little more protected.  

Auto-undead is quite unweildy and will cause far more harm than good as a general reaction ability.  Auto-haste is borderline OP.

Finger Guard could be replaced by Auto Chakra or something though,

Not without ASM, no.  Counter Tackle is hardcoded to use Dash.  Change Dash, change counter tackle.  There is no parellel for something hardcoded to protect against the Talk Skill formula to suddenly turn into an activated ability. It has some ASM potential, though.  Imagine blocking formula 01's thrown at you

 I'll probably try my hand at the easy hacks (variable swapping) once the storyline is done -- like somehow changing Caution and Regenerator to be more potent, maybe by inflicting more than one status... or making Br/Fa up actually increment more than a feeble 3.  If it's too cumbersome, then oh well.

[Sephirot24]

The only "complain" I have about 100% cancel charging is Bosses, specially Zodiac bosses... most love to charge big stuff. Get a hasted ninja with Dash secondary and you're set..

[Zeio]

that's why you balance them around innate no charge.

[iopyud]

Well, my beef on auto potion is it's instant 70% chance to negate 150 damage. Sure, it's Godbless in 1.3 because it's oh-so-easy to reach and damage mages.

All I'm saying is that it needs a little nerf so that other skills will be worthwhile to use during mid-game.

Counter Flood doesn't heal you. Hamedo works only within your weapon range, Damage Split halves damage, sure it's better than auto potion when things hit for 300 but that's endgame and you're always guaranteed to receive damage instead of "If dmg is < 150, then 0 dmglol".

I'm an auto potion whore but that doesn't mean I like it. Heck, I daresay it's broken. It turns mages into freakin' tanks.

As for Caution and Warn, would it be possible for them to give defend and then protect or shell or all of them? Otherwise you're better off with auto potion which negates 150 damage.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic, sorry.

Anyway, how about this:

Potion : Heals 30% HP
Hi-Potion: Heals 60 to 80 HP (I mean literally, the HP healed can be any value from 60 to 80 like axes)
X-Potion: Either discard this or make it unusable by Auto Potion. If that can't be done, It'll heal 50 to 100 HP?

The values have been decreased so how about this:

Give Throw Item an added % heal value. Like... Heal 20% HP. It doesn't matter what your Chemist throws, it heals an added 20% HP.
So that's 30% + 20% HP for Potion and cure status + heal 20% HP for remedy for example.

Is it possible?

Oh, as for Samurai specializing in Draw Out, how about giving them high HPM? That way they can survive jumping in the middle of an angry crowd.
Top that with an improved weapon guard % with Katanas?

On an entirely different note, is this patch for easy type ONLY?
I haven't tried it (easytype) yet despite my whinning. It's STILL hard, right?

[Zenius]

Easytype is still moderately difficult
Biggest difference is that the enemies are all party level = less XP gained per action = lower party level
So there's not really a need to hold back your party level and risk getting outequipped

Some battles have been changed and some rare equips removed
(Grog Hill nerfed, Gates of Riovanes back to Archers and Lancers, Zalmo 2 lost Venetian Shield, etc.)

[philsov]

that's why you balance them around innate no charge.

That would completely change the dynamic of Velius, who in turn is also the most suspectible to Dash.  

But non-charge cyclops?  No, that's too evil.

Looks like it's back to the drawing board.

Potion : Heals 30% HP
Hi-Potion: Heals 60 to 80 HP (I mean literally, the HP healed can be any value from 60 to 80 like axes)
X-Potion: Either discard this or make it unusable by Auto Potion. If that can't be done, It'll heal 50 to 100 HP?

Rando range isn't easily possible.  I had originally thrown up:

Pot = 20 HP / 30% HP
Hi-Pot = 50 HP / 30% HP
X-Pot = 100 HP / 30% HP

Which I'm tempted to keep, at least until a playthrough starts happening and we go from there.

Throw Item support boosting potion effectiveness?  Another ASM idea that got kicked around but code never got posted.  As of right now, no, not possible.

Oh, as for Samurai specializing in Draw Out, how about giving them high HPM? That way they can survive jumping in the middle of an angry crowd.

Well draw out is losing the "hit allies" flag, and past that might get a tweak on personal preference because I don't like the current scheme.  But Samu HP is fine.  They have still have heavy armor, and if you over-extend yourself you deserve to die imo

On an entirely different note, is this patch for easy type ONLY?

Unless someone else inputs all these changes onto a normal 1.3 or vice versa, yes.  But its difficulty is moderate if you're a FFT vet, but still rather hard if you've played FFT like... once... before.

[Sephirot24]

Giving innate no-charge to Zodiacs...? You sure know about balancing dude... >_>

Hey Phil, how about leaving Potion 30HP / 30%HP ? 20HP recovery is far too crappy to waste a turn. That's as much as a guy with a cheap broadsword does just as the game begins.

[Zeio]

Giving innate no-charge to Zodiacs...? You sure know about balancing dude... >_>

yes, I do.  Reread my post again and you'll understand.

You simply give the zodiacs abilities that aren't overpowered with no charge.  Cyclops does not define Velius in any way, but if you must give him clops just make him his own clops that's balanced around having no charge.

it's really not that hard.  All the Zodiacs have innate no charge in the patch I'm working on and it's managable as long as you know how to build them a solid skillset.

At the end of the day, though,  phil can do whatever he wants.  It just seems really funny to me to see a Lucavi standing around charging (even if it is with short charge) when they're meant to be the almighty evil that destroys everything.

[philsov]

You simply give the zodiacs abilities that aren't overpowered with no charge.

Lame!  Cyclops is MEANT to one shot you.  The charge time enables non targeted party members to gtfo.  To soften Velius' blows with a different non-charge summon, that will not one-shot you, makes him a lot easier and devilishly similar to queklain minus their respective status inflictions. To keep him with a large aoe summon that one-shots people, but give Velius non-charge, is simply too much.  

There is no middle ground here.

@Seph, possibly.  They'll stay at 20 for now, once I publish the prelim patch and you take it on a joyride we'll go from there.

[Sephirot24]

I now understand what you meant Zeio, but I still have to agree with Phil on this one.

[Zaen]

Or... eliminate Auto Potion. That forces more strategic reactions...

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Isn't there some kind of hack that turns Brave into Fury or something, causing it to act like Faith vs physical attacks?

I remember reading about it a while back I think, but my memory's fuzzy.

If I'm remembering it right though, maybe that would be worth including here as well as it would make lower-Brave characters more useful (as mages, at least) instead of making everything 70 Br - X Fa.  It'd also further the use of the Br / Fa modifying moves that are being re-introduced.

EDIT:  I'm also not dropping either the flat growth or Shield on all suggestions, btw.  Just too lazy to run numbers and articulate right now, and would like to play a demo especially before pressing the second one some more.

[Sephirot24]

Leave Auto Potion as it is. It's useful to some extent, but with this changes it's not OP at all. Also it's a classic ability!

Brave becoming Fury sounds interesting. If that change was implemented though, we'd have to make Reactions trigger with something else but Brave. Even if having 40 Brave would help me against physical attacks, I don't think I'd ever sacrifice 30% chance for my reaction to trigger. Only useful Reaction would be Abandon.

Flat growths? Meh. Shield on all? No way >_>

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Brave becoming Fury sounds interesting. If that change was implemented though, we'd have to make Reactions trigger with something else but Brave. Even if having 40 Brave would help me against physical attacks, I don't think I'd ever sacrifice 30% chance for my reaction to trigger. Only useful Reaction would be Abandon.

Abandon got nixed.

I half agree it may not matter, but do remember it depends on what your reaction ability actually is.  A 50% Auto-Potion on a mage, for example, is okay when they're getting more turns to run and blast something with magic instead of always being in "Auto Potion one hit off or die in two" mode.

Though like I said, I don't remember how this hack (Fury) works entirely.  It may multiply everything by .XX (XX = Br) or 1.XX (XX still = Br), which obvious creates a drastic difference in the end numbers.  It was something I half-remembered randomly and imagined Philsov would know more of to say whether it'd be worth using.

Flat growths? Meh. Shield on all? No way >_>

Think of it this way.

If you get all Special units, you only have room for the four generics.  This means if you want to specialize (say, for the harder Deep Dungeon fights, for the impossible-without-foresight battles he wants to re-add, potentially re-increased difficulty end game, whatever), you either pray the growths on your Specials are good enough to cover your needs, get stuck with inferior stats, or need to boot your generics you used all game and train more to get the better stats, all of which sound like "meh" options.  He said he's toning down the growths, sure, but if the differences are only noticeable beyond a point or two to 99-fanatics anyway, why not make those peoples' lives easier and do flat growths while solving the above problems?  

Much simpler and more logical, imo.  I'd at least say make Speed a flat growth, as its so influential compared to the other stats, but full flat-stat growths really just seems better.  Kills the feel a little, sure, but when the difference is only going to be ~1 PA / MA point and some HP / MP to the "normal" player anyway, why not throw the grinder a bone for once?  Especially for special characters, some of them (Orlandu!) have some really crappy as hell growths and by the time you get them, there's been too much damage from said growths to be undone.  Which kinda blows.

Shields, like I said, not elaborating on that one again until I see some of his hard numbers working in-game.  Once I see how his evasion values stack for myself in-practice, I'll go into it again.  Especially if he can find someone who can ASM the Weapon Guard and Shield Phys-EV stats to be global in the way of C-EV.