Final Fantasy Hacktics

There's a couple images already uploaded for The Lion War, but I wanted to make some for TLWotL as I'll be playing it on my Steam Deck.  What awesome timing for this patch to come out! 

Grid:


Poster:


Logo:


I have a couple additional alternate logos as well which I'll include below since Discord doesn't want me to upload anything else tonight.  I'm looking forward to enjoying FFT again for the thousandth time, and for anyone else who likes adding non-steam games to their library I hope these are useful for you.  For the icon and the hero banner I'm using already uploaded assets on steamdgriddb so I recommend searching there for anything you like.

I've been coming in here every now and then, usually a couple times a month and haven't really been seeing too much activity concerning 1.39 since I was last here.  Is the proposal summary posted last year still basically what we're looking at or are the changes discussed semi recently in this thread looking to be implemented?

And I agree with Malroth for the most part on adjusting Berserk, but any Mage should probably be wearing equipment to protect themselves from it in the first place.  Or at least have an item bot that resists it to heal them if needed.  Mages (besides Priests) seem to have the hardest time in 1.38 though so perhaps some general adjusting is in order.

I agree that 25% might be too much of a nerf for the exact reasons that Gaignun pointed out.  Somewhere from 33%-50% (I vote 50%) seems much more fair.  I myself would just give up trying to make absorb teams if they were dropped to 25%. 

If we took out all elements that are absorbed by shields, how about we make all of the clothes behave like Earth Clothes?

Santa Suit becomes Aviator Suit:  Absorb: Wind, Strengthen: Wind
Black Costume changes to:  Absorb: Dark, Strengthen: Dark
Rubber Costume becomes Diving Suit:  Absorb: Water, Strengthen: Water

The only problem I have with changing clothes is that some elements will most likely become impossible to have a team fully absorb.  Most likely Ice, which having an all Ice team is already hard to accomplish as it is. Not to mention that clothes are limited to those who can wear them (which admittedly is a lot) but that's also something to consider. 

And I agree with unflagging Holy from self-hit.  Even if I gave some of my Holy units Cure spells they would still insist on targeting themselves with Holy.  Maybe I should just stop equipping Magic Rings on them... but I find my Holy units always dying to, you guessed it, Holy.  Removing self-hit would at least help out my current conundrum... I don't know how many others.

You could replace Salamander with Midgardsormr (Midgar Swarm) and make it have the chance to inflict poison or some other debilitating status.  Just a thought.

I think the reason the absorb shields have elemental weaknesses is because it forces people to build around them, which is nice considering more equipment should behave like that.  Don't want to make building characters too easy now; there wouldn't be any fun in that. 

Quote from: reinoe on July 21, 2013, 07:41:38 pm

spoiler: Eternal vs James

I'm really happy to see one of our new players make it out of the "Prelims".  I've already said what I think about James' team, but I don't know if I've talked about Eternal's...

Geomancy can be a rather damaging long term strategy.  If it's damage is maximized and it hits multiple units.  But it has to hit multiple units repeatedly to truly be effective.  So in that sense it's hard to make Geomancy a main attraction.  Also Eternal just wasn't getting the procs off.

Next round James will face Dragonblade.  Unfortunately I don't think James will make it out of the next round.

Yeah, I don't think I have a chance going into the next match.  To tell you honestly, for a team I just built in a couple hours without testing, I'm surprised it's made it this far.

I'm going to be heading out on vacation for the next couple weeks, so I'll only be checking in on the site on the rare occasion I get the chance... on my phone so I probably won't be replying to anything unless it's important.  The best of luck to everyone!

I'm assuming compats?  I don't think so... although my calculations are always coming out a little off most of the time.



I'm pretty sure that 2H doubles WP if I'm correct, or else I have no idea how it effects my 2H Stick user... 2H you either hit big or miss, with 2S at least you have a better chance to get some damage in, trigger multiple procs, or even stack stat boosts.

But all of that aside, I completely understand why we'd combine the two.  In fact I'm all for it.  I'm just worried about it pushing in on the new, not as distributed, Slasher.

But that creates another open sword slot.  Does anyone have any ideas what we would put in its place?

Quote from: Barren on July 25, 2013, 09:52:26 pm
What if we fused parry edge with platinum sword together? Me and fdc were discussing about it and we both agree that parry edge isn't all that great other than evasion and platinum sword while good but not too used.

Here's what would be a good idea:

11 WP
25% WEV
2S
no 2H

A Max PA Squire would be dealing from 276 (70 vs 40 Fury) to 388 (70 vs 70 Fury) with 2S if both hits connect?  It doesn't seem that bad, but why would you get rid of the option to 2H may I ask?  I think it comes out to about the same damage as 2S if I'm calculating everything correctly.  Isn't 2H just a higher risk, higher reward strategy compared to 2S?  You don't even get the extra boost to your evasion.

Also, doesn't this just seem like a sword version of 1.39 Slasher?

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
Orichalcum's WP nerf is not about Orichalcum; it's about Katar.  If we don't nerf Orichalcum's WP, then Katar in 1.39 will become more redundant than Orichalcum now.  Damage bots and Draw-Out bots alike will use Orichalcum.

I'm not quite following.  I don't believe I've noticed that many Orichalcums used on Draw-Out units in previous teams (except a few Mediators), and it's only use on damage bots I can think of would be substituting it in for Katar when you've already used up both slots (which then they should just build a Air Knife unit anyways).  It does seem a little redundant (which I hate) but what else should we do to it?  It's seeing almost no use (none were used in this tournament at all) and we want to nerf it?

All I'm saying is, make its WP equal to 1.39 Katar.  If Katar goes down, so does Orichalcum.  That way it's not being completely outclassed (even though it is). 

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
Coral Sword is going to have some growing pains.  I predict that it will be completely broken with Two Swords.

Well, a 2S Thief with Coral Sword might be able to output close to or above 600 damage to one unit under favorable conditions, assuming my math is correct (Both attacks hit, both Suiton procs activate, both units are at 70 fury/40 faith or innocent)

*I suspect an increased usage in Flash Hats*
*Innocent might become the next "Oil" *
*Might be getting a little too ahead of myself*

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
Heaven's Cloud's status proc is too good for 10 WP, in my opinion.  This katana is already getting a buff with Genji Helm, so I don't believe the WP boost is necessary.

To be honest, the only reason I made it's WP 10 is so it would match up with the other elemental Katana... What can I say, I like uniformity.

I'm completely okay with Heaven's Cloud staying at 9 WP.  Especially with the new Genji Helm.

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
That's a pretty minor drawback on all but the smallest maps, in my opinion.  The first turn is usually spent advancing to engage the opposing team.  If anything, it keeps you from lining up in mid-field to get hit by AoE.  The risk of being preemptively struck is quite small, and this risk is certainly worth Stone Gun's 150+ concentrated damage.

All I can say is I completely agree

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
Simple answer: Its WP needs to be boosted to 14 to keep its damage comparable to Glacier and Blast guns' damage.

Detailed answer: It's a simple law of ratios.  Nether-tier spells have lower Q values than tier-two spells.  Meanwhile, the Q values of fire, ice, and lightning always differ by 1 regardless of tier. (Fire has the lowest Q value, followed by ice, then lightning.)  This effectively increases the damage ratio between the three elements in the nether tier.

Consider the extreme case. Fire, ice, and lightning's Q values are 1, 2, and 3, respectively.  Even though their Q value differ by only 1, ice and lightning are, respectively, twice and three times as powerful as fire.  Accordingly, a fire spellgun would need roughly twice and three times the WP of an ice and lightning spellgun to deal the same damage.

Of course, this fact applies to damage ratio between Glacier Gun and Blast Gun, too.  The reason why Glacier Gun isn't receiving a similar WP boost is because it is already the strongest gun.  Moving to the nether tier makes its damage fall in line with Blast Gun.

That makes sense, I see the reasoning behind it now. 

Quote from: Gaignun on July 25, 2013, 07:42:34 am
It has been a problem.  Crossbows, with their meager 4 range, aren't being used at all. 

Didn't someone bring up the idea to increase their range to 5?  I think it would make sense since guns would still have the best neutral range, and longbows would still best them in precision and vertical range.  If so, I think boosting all of their WP by 2 might be a bit much as CT5Holy suggested... but let me do some calculations first just to make sure.

... Nevermind, 12 seems just about right.  I could even see them going to 13 because boosting their damage output requires a lot of investment/support.

Or how about making crossbows capable of being 2H?!  It would make them the only range weapons capable of using 2Hs power boost, but as a downside we'd have to keep their WP down at around 8-9 and most likely their range at 4 (so move 3 units have a chance to get to them).  This would make them quite versatile, capable of poking and spreading nasty statuses and dealing good damage if they decide to 2H.

I think 10 WP would be too much, especially on a distance weapon (320 damage on a Max PA Archer pre fury) but it would leave the unit quite fragile.

I'll go ahead and make two separate lists for Crossbows, one where they're incapable of 2H and another where they are.





And as for the replacement for Bowgun, I'd like to submit a completely unoriginal design.

Vampire Hunter/Vampire Killer/"Cross" Bow
12(8) WP; 0 W-EV; Range: 5(4); +1 Sp; 100% Cast: Seal Evil; 2H: No(Yes); 2S: No

All of the FLAVOR!  Anyways, it would be nice to see a crossbow that has a stat boost, which is all this basically is with an added bonus of sometimes petrifying those nasty cursed ring units.

Quote from: CT5Holy on July 25, 2013, 01:17:17 am
I am against lowering Ninja and Thief PA. Lowering their PA pigeonholes them into certain builds. For example, lowering Thief PA would cause them to primarily be speedy itembots, and if they want to even consider doing respectable damage, then they would need to get Two Hands. Lowering PA would also turn off using PA-reliant skillsets. Having 9 PA is low enough, honestly, because you need to spend 2 equipment slots to get them to 12 PA for the next 'boost' with Attack UP. Ninja PA was nerfed to 9 very early on in Arena's existence, where it has stayed this whole time, and I think they're in a fine place. If we're worried about 2H Katar Thieves and Hidden Knife+Ninja Knife Kagesougi Ninjas, let's examine the equipment/skills instead. I think their current stats are appropriate.

Don't thieves already use 2H like crazy, and deal absolutely BONKERS damage?

*looks at your current teams thief*

Thieves seem to have absolutely everything.  Decent HP (144), amazing speed (10), good PA (9), move and jump (each at 4, but that could be seen as a minus on larger maps), and an amazing C-EV (20).  Not to mention abilities like Steal Heart and Quickening (which is thankfully dying) and great equipment choices.  A base of 8 PA would still be 2 equipment slots away from 12, and it will help limit their options.  They would still make great 2H users, Itembots, Talk Skill users, and Kiyomori and Masamune spammers.  That doesn't seem that bad to me.

Quote from: CT5Holy on July 25, 2013, 02:15:28 am
Oh, what if we made Bizen Boat do PA*X MP damage? Just a thought.

*Thinks of how abusable it would be with Thieves, Ninja's, Monks, Dancers, ect and how utterly helpless magic classes could end up feeling*

I would rather not...

Quote from: Avalanche on July 25, 2013, 01:31:07 am
Ninja and Thief have 9 Pa. Reducing it would mean that they have equal Pa than a Chemist, Priest and Mediator. Talking about Mediator i think its stats are to good. A Female Mediator has 9 Speed, 9 MA and excelent HP.

I agree that Mediators seem to have it really good (the same with Theives, even if CT5Holy provided a decent counter argument).  But I'm going to wait saying anything else until we get to covering base stats.

Quote from: The Damned on July 24, 2013, 04:22:07 am
I'm only being this blunt--even though I do still curse too much--because that is precisely why I nag people to respond things (when they have the time). If one stays silent while he/she is actually around--so it's not like I'm blaming Andante49 or woodenbandman or JamesOnyx or other new people--to respond, then one gets to hold one's piece for the entirety of the next update. (Unless said thing one didn't bring up turns out, "luckily", to be hideously broken.)

It's true that I've been here quite often recently, but it's mostly just been me checking in and then leaving the page open as I go to do something else (have been "busy" adding a bunch of new stages and brstms to our SSB: Project M since it's new demo release).  I haven't been replying because I mostly agree with all of the opinions being expressed already in this thread, but since you put me on the spot, I guess I can make some short comments.

















Well shoot, there goes 5 hours of my day.  I'm going to save talking about Crossbows till later so I have a little longer to think them over.  Those are my opinions and I hope they help in at least some way.

(I realized right away that this would end up airing Monday night for me, which is fine since I have work tomorrow )



By the way, nobody runs Maelstrom???  I thought that it would have been one of the least countered elements so that's why I chose it alongside Earth.  It also helps that nothing nulls or absorbs both water and earth (Thief Hat is an issue though).  It also matched the plant theme I was going for (although I just randomly named all of them).

Quote from: Malroth on July 08, 2013, 01:08:13 am
I've already made a Lore/mime team already   autopotion still stops it cold

Auto-Potion shouldn't hurt Lore that much.  I have a setup that does at least 80-100 damage off of Maelstrom, and with Auto-Potion dropping down to healing 70 HP (and only occasionally no less), you should be able to power through it.  As a note, no team should be able to accumulate 300-500 damage across the map that easily anyways.

(3 Scholars + 1 Mime equals OH my GAWD)

Quote from: TheJonin on July 07, 2013, 11:02:49 pm
The oddities of my team are pretty easily explained- I wasn't going to enter but saw 31 teams with 20 minutes til the deadline and, well, here I am..!  With enough leftover JP for a full 5th unit...

You're not alone, although I probably had around a hour to a hour and a half.  Wish I would have been able to test it out some but... oh well, what's done is done.

Quote from: TheJonin on July 07, 2013, 11:02:49 pm
I'm also curious if AI units will work together- I have Zombie and Seal Evil and would like to see them attempt to combo them.

I'm pretty sure units with consecrate and seal evil try going for them as often as possible, the A.I. love petrify.  But spreading zombie isn't as much of a priority sadly, so the combo falls a little flat.  But with how popular curse ring is, it doesn't hurt to have seal evil on a character.

Quote from: reinoe on July 07, 2013, 10:48:37 pm
No need to finish the tournament I already know how it ends.

Dokurider wins the tournament.

I hope I end up doing that well in the losers racket, thanks for the slight boost in confidence 

Quote from: The Damned on July 07, 2013, 06:30:07 pm

spoiler: Andante49 vs. JamesOnyx

This was a really good match, especially given both combatants are first timers. Despite Punch Art being weak on the Geomancer, which is an easy mistake to make given Punch Art's quadratic formulas make it either pathetic or destroy faces with almost no middle ground, I think that unit wasn't the weakest link on JamesOnyx's team.

Instead, to me, the Samurai not having Murasame is ultimately what contributed to the loss, especially since she had MA Save (as Dokurider also commented). Having Masamune is all well and good, but even as overpowered as that thing is, it's usually only really abusive when you have either two Masamune users or at least another Haste-inflicting user. Otherwise the Masamune unit likely ends up wasting three of its actions using Masamune on other units. (This whether or not you want everyone on the team to be Hasted & Regened).

You also saw that the A.I. has the unfortunate issue of often Masamune itself it rather than actually healing once it's resurrected with less than full HP. Not that the Samurai actually had access to self-healing, which was the problem. Murasame also would have helped immensely with two other units having Distribute given the A.I. will gladly Murasame allies while healing itself even if they aren't hurt.

Otherwise, the Samurai's set-up was fine I suppose even with a relative lack of MP and I'd say that Andante49 ultimately won just because his Draw Out user was sturdier by comparison. They both did really good damage, but the Black Magic Woman ran out of steam too quickly in terms of both HP and MP. It also helped that Andante49's Geomancer hit harder than JamesOnyx's Geomancer overall, even if she kept dying first.

Regardless, always nice to see the relatively unused Giant Axe, the katana Chirijiraden and Bahamut be used and used well, especially in a relatively close match.

Good first attempt everyone.

You know what's depressing with all of you guys saying my samurai should have had murasame instead of masamune, I accidentally sent him my first list with murasame instead of masamune.  I realized the mistake and asked him to fix it... I should have left it alone xD

My team actually had a lot of weaknesses I needed to address.  A squishy White Mage (the only true reviver), a lackluster Geomancer, and some bad decisions on my Samurai are just a few of them.  The Samurai's water came in handy quite a bit for those matches, but she's too heavily relying on it.

Quote from: Andante49 on July 07, 2013, 06:28:54 pm
She'd have 105 damage elementals and a 189 Chiri. Scary? Yes but, without covering Cursed Ring's weaknesses she's OHKO'd by a 70 faith strengthened magic attack up Blaze Gun not to mention ~80% Consecrations and ~70% Seal Evils.

I don't like to bring up Blaze Gun because that thing is a pure abomination, as are most of the elemental guns (aren't they getting nerfed?).  I only picked up the curse ring because of the potential for a "reraise" on top of the bonus +1 PA/MA, but others I thought were likely candidates were red shoes, reflect ring, magic ring, diamond armlet, and of course 108 gems.

Again with me just making these characters on the spot and not testing them before posting... I found that MA Save was truly the Reaction ability I should have given her after all.  I replaced Chirijiraden with Koutetsu on the Curse Ring build, and gave her Murasame on any other.  It significantly increased her damage output.  Not to mention damage isn't all what Elemental is about, you want to pull off some hacks and inflict some pretty nasty statuses too.

Quote from: Andante49 on July 07, 2013, 06:28:54 pm
The best elementals I've come up with are from a 10/16 Bard with magic attack up and 108 gems for 156 (126 for the non-elemental ones).

Oh I've already made a couple Bards just like that myself, I totally agree with you that those are amazing.  But this was just a test to see if a somewhat competent armored Elemental could be made.  It's not impossible.  (The samurai was at a 10/16 as well if the helms and armor applied +1/+1s)

Quote from: Dokurider on July 07, 2013, 06:50:05 pm
The point I'm trying to make here is that it's not a significant change. Not in DPS and not enough to try to come up with another armor concept for a measly 21 gain in damage for one kind of build. And I wouldn't really call a Cursed unit tanky, not with Raise weakness and no self healing. It just doesn't really help all that much. If we really wanted to increase Elemental's damage output, we would just give it another +2 or +3 to it's constant and it would do exactly the same thing, only more helpful to builds with less than optimal configurations for Elemental

This isn't what the armor was originally brought up for, it was just an on the spot idea of how it could be applied.  But speaking of increasing Elemental's damage output, I'd be all for that.  Just saying.

But if making new armors is really that much of a hassle, which is what I originally brought up the subject for so we wouldn't have two slots being wasted on +1s, then I can just leave it at this.  It was just a simple suggestion, nothing more.

Quote from: Malroth on July 07, 2013, 06:56:56 pm
thats 2 mimes and 2 glass cannons maxPA no defense at all dancers vs a no protect no defense up no autopotion no MP restore team.  A glass cannon team SHOULD be able to beat another glass cannon team in 1 round

I'm sorry, if the meta became that fast, I would probably stop playing.  That's an extremely simple setup for a team that could possibly kill in a single round.  There are other setups out there that can accomplish such a task, but they actually require the team to, you know, actually move to do it.

Quote from: Dokurider on July 07, 2013, 02:37:38 pm
The thing is, Elemental requires a lot more MA stacking than trying to have an MA/PA balance. Andante's Geomancer unit deals a ton of damage with Elemental because he was able to stack so much MA, something that an Armor class could never do in the first place. A +1 MA/PA would be a bandaid on that issue.

It's because of the way the multipliers work for MA correct?  Still, it would be possible to build a decent Female Elemental Samurai with something like this:



Looks pretty legit to me.  Neither Draw Out or Elemental need Fury or Faith so we can keep them down to minimum (the only reason to increase them is to increase your odds of CF).  Tanky, deadly, and undead to boot so it keeps coming back.  I see no problem whatsoever with elemental samurai.  If you double up on this unit, you could even change Chirijiraden for Koutetsu for possibly healing.

Quote from: Dokurider on July 07, 2013, 02:37:38 pm
If you want to fill in an armor idea, Genji Armor is still open. I suggested a 135 HP armor with initial: Protect/Shell, which is a decent idea, but I don't think it'll ultimately hold water to the other armors or even Reflect Mail.

Personally, I find that version of Genji Armor much more usable than it's current form.  I haven't found one reason to use Genji Armor over Iron Boots or even Move=0.  Give that to a unit with a tone of resistances or defense up and a lot of move, possibly PA/MA Save to make it an even bigger threat... I would be down to testing that. 

If I recall correctly, I thought someone brought up returning Geomancy skills to 5 Rng, it's still incredibly difficult to increase their damage output, and is situational based on terrain.  If anything, Elemental is probably one the biggest abilities in need of these buffs.  I'm sure another decent armor choice wouldn't hurt none.

I could see an Elemental Samurai working pretty well, it's not that far off from a Black Magic Samurai.

Quote from: reinoe on July 06, 2013, 11:32:57 pm
The +1 bonus to Carabini/Platina armor is done for the sake of balance.  Wizard Robe/Outfit/Power Sleeve grant +2 but also have less HP.  The +2 for those two armors would make Samurai particularly unbalanced.

Still it's always good to bring up ideas because you never know what people are thinking.

Oh I know, I never suggested increasing the bonuses to those two armors, that would be ridiculous.

Quote from: reinoe on July 06, 2013, 11:32:57 pm
Mimes starting at 413/386+CLOTHES wouldn't even be that bad given their penchant for getting themselves murdered by trying to recreate the "Leeroy Jenkins" video.

That's what Move-1, Move=0, Iron Boots, and possibly even Genji Armor is for.  Stops them right in their tracks.

Quote from: Dokurider on July 06, 2013, 06:05:29 pm
Chrono Trigger is activated by damage, not just by getting attacked.

Are you sure Chrono Trigger is activated by just damage?  My Priest was at a 40/70 so about a 55% proc rate and I tested it out in like 5-6 matches having her take half damage from Maelstrom and it never occurred once.  Then some random dude decides to walk up and hit her and it immediately goes off 

At least I know it's true for Dragon Spirit now, which is a little disappointing but completely understandable.

Reactions that I tested that would go off from Maelstrom were:



I'm pretty sure Brave Up/Faith Up would proc too, and of course MP Absorb but I never tested it.  I don't know about Regenerator, that's the only one I'm questionable on now.

Quote from: Gaignun on July 06, 2013, 10:14:47 pm
There's no need to fill armor slots that need no filling.  Combining Carabini and Platina armors won't reduce options; it'll consolidate them.  People are usually interested in boosting only PA or MA.  This way, they'll just select the same piece of armor in both cases.  You're right in saying that there's little reason to do it, though.

I can't tell if you'd be okay with Carabini/Platina combination or would rather keep them the same?  "Consolidating" as a concept is usually a good thing so...

I don't see an issue with combining those two armors when they only grant a +1 to PA/MA.  If they had +2s, such as Wizard Outfit, Robe, or Power Sleeve I would understand.  But opening up another slot for something besides just a simple +1 would increase the potential for new builds and creativity.

In the first place, I only brought up the new armor because of the possibility of water loosing it's singular equipment buff, but decided to just keep rolling with the Diamond Armor meets Armlet design because it just seemed to make sense.  It in no way needs to be implemented, but I think it wouldn't hurt none the less.

Quote from: Gaignun on July 06, 2013, 10:14:47 pm
If Mimes' stats and innates aren't nerfed, then I strongly suggest giving Mimes only RSM, and perhaps accessories.  This might increase the prevalence of the rarely-used "Equip X" abilities.

I wouldn't be surprised if they lost all of their innate abilities.  Their potential would be incredible if they got to keep Concentrate and be able to equip Attack Up/Magic Attack Up and have Move-HP Up and Move-MP Up at the same time.

And their stats will get nerfed no matter what.  Starting at an innate 413/386 for HP and still being able to equip hats,clothes, or whatever we decide to give them, would be ludicrous.  It would be the funniest thing in the world to see a team struggling against a Iron Boots tank Lore Mime, but I'd rather forgo that atrocity. 

For noobs, wouldn't it be best if we figured all of these things out and put them in the master guide???  That way we wouldn't have to go back and forth on something like this.

I would recommend wording all of those abilities like so:

*Performs Action* when (targeted/damaged) by a (physical/magical/standard) attack.