Final Fantasy Hacktics

Scryer, Students of Latent Potency

Current Status: 75% Complete

(It is still absent of a sprite)

The Scryer replaces the Chemist, but completely changes their roles. Only keeping versions of the original chemists skills in three of their moves, and two unique and important items one can retrieve are the Faith Blessing's Rune and Fury's Strength Rune, which are the only ways to raise Permanant Fury and Faith, and their JP cost will be quite a bit. (This goes without saying, don't use it on Gafgarion!) As you can guess these will be two extremely rare items, which you just won't find anywhere. And since it's a 50/50 chance of working, it is probably best to use them only in Sub-Missions you know you'll have no trouble with, it's inadvisable to use them for any strategic use. But without further ado, the specs of the Scryer.

QuoteWith the fade out of traditional magic a century prior, the Glabados Faith attempted to seize the field of magic by storm, readying many doctrines to stop the traditional magic practices, should they ever come to the forefront once more. They were challenged by a hitherto unknown group called "The Apophis" an ancient group that used unfamiliar magic. They would have quickly been labeled Heretics, if they weren't protected by certain members of the parliament of the time. The church had to fall back and rethink their current strategy.

 The Apophis spread schools of a unique art called "Scrying", the students of these schools created many different runes of varying and miraculous powers. The practice flourished for years with many common folk making their living as Runics (those who create the stones) and Scryers. Many of the Scryers earned their livings well, healing the sick and enrolling in the town defense forces of the period. Though there were some who abused their powers, doing such despicable acts as enslaving a village and forcing the people to create Runes for them, this group of Scryers were called "The Streetears", their name was said to come from a grand city of the Golden Age of Ivalice.

   The church now had all it needed to justify a "Heretic Hunt". The Streetears were slaughtered to the last man, the people freed and they were subsequently celebrated by the church, their testimony made famous, and the country sympathized with them. It was only a matter of time before the people themselves were raging over the Scryers, this little flame turned into an engulfing inferno. The Runics abandoned their Scryers and the Scryers weren't able to mount an offensive. Many Scryers submitted to the church bringing with them a number of Runics. They were brought to live in Murond and their very descendants occupy a small section of the Holy Place.

Most of the Scryers fled to other shores, some fleeing to Romanda and Ordalia, others making it as far as the Land of Oracles and beyond. Runics are forbidden in Ivalice, but their runes still make it onto many market places. As people have little use for them, they often give them away as trinkets. Parting or homecoming gifts are the most common time they are seen. Scryers in recent days have made a come back in the public eye. They were assisting Ivalice in the tail end of the Fifty Years War, to check the enemy Scryers. The job of Runic though is still held a monopoly by the Glabados Faith. The High Confessor Funeral does not seem content to allow them to openly spread the knowledge of their craft.

Stats of the Scryer

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n198/LastingDawn/ScryerStats-1.jpg)

Innate: Toss Rune

3 Move
3 Jump

Equipment Options
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n198/LastingDawn/ScryerEquipment.jpg)









Scryer's Skills

QuotePotion - Body Rune (Recover's 50 HP)

Hi Potion - Adept Rune (MA * MA /2)

X Potion - Balance Rune (PA /2 * MA)

Ether - Mind Rune (Restores 30 MP)

Hi Ether - Deepening Rune (Damages the target for how much HP they have lost)

Elixir - "Prestige Rune" "Activating the power within this Rune calls forth a surge of power, that courses through the body, leaving the holder's mind and body stronger then before." (Raises Level + 1, also applies M-Barrier)

Antidote - Beast Rune (Random Slow, Sleep, Don't Move, Poison)

Eye Drop - Vitality Rune (Regen)

Echo Grass - Hide Rune (Transparent, Don't Move, Defend)

Maiden's Kiss - Wall Rune (Protect, Shell)

Soft - Freedom Rune (Cancel Don't Move, Don't Act, Sleep, Stop, Petrify)

Holy Water - Blessed Rune (Same exact thing as Holy Water)

Remedy - Faith's Rune (50% to raise Faith by 10 for that battle, +2 Permanant)

Phoenix Down - Fury's Rune(50% to raise Fury by 10 for that battle, +2 Permanant)

make items do damage or status?

change the chemist job role?

get rid of items all together and make the chemist job more into the alchemist of the FMA universe

Take a look at the other FF games and the diversity of items they have there. Like Jacob said have an Alchemist job class. Have items that do fire, water, lightening, ect low damage spells. Make the items really expensive though so that is how you balance them instead of using mp. Have a potion that causes poison, or other status effects. Though do note that getting rid of chemist at the beginning will make early game much harder without any way to raise people.

Replace Chemist with an Apprentice type job.
Just throwing it out there, I haven't thought about it alot.

this is topic 1337.  Just thought I'd point that out.

That is quite the point Cheetah, Lavian carries you through the early game. After that, either Rad or Ramza might have a job with Raise or... some other skill to help such... hmm, maybe I should put Raise in the Apprentice set.

Revive seems like an ability Apprentice might have over raise. That is just a superficial point of view because of how they look.

Well, the problem with Revive, is it's an instant raise move, I want Reviving to be a rather... arduous task, something you have to *kind of* think about, to make everything go your way, of course if it could miss... that could work.

You can give them a low % chance Revive

they are apprentices, after all

like a first aid type move

you know, a skillset that can do many things unreliable can become powerful later on as a secondary (look at vanilla or 1.3 talk skill)

Hmm the arduous part of Revive though is that it has a range of only 1 though. You could also slap on a moderate MP cost... but that would be unfortunate for the actual Monk class.

Yes, but Apprentice is Rad's class in case people had forgotten, and he has his amateurish moves in his beginning Red Magic. I would like to keep the Chemist class, regardless of what it becomes as the consumable user, but there's a bit more of an interesting way to do this... The "item" to be consumed doesn't need to be a generic consumable, let's say you consume a... Mythril Sword to give yourself Protect, or some sort. Things could be a bit more unique.

Possibly make the items do damage like bombs and have items that have a chance of causing a status ailment.

Consuming equips sounds like a good idea, as it would make item usage considerably more expensive.

How about Stat-Up items?
Throw something to Ramza... Ramza's PA +1.

Hmm... especially if things were in very limited quantity... of course that would mean that you would only recieve a not so ample supply of such, and we have no idea if the AI knows how to use it, that would be the large test.

that would be cool, but currently, the effect is determined by the item, and not the skill that calls the item, so the only way to have an item cast protect, would be to set the skill to use an item that casts protect. What I'd like to see is if someone could figure out a way for items that reference WP in thier formulas to use the item's WP and not the WP of the unit's equiped weapon, much the way that Throw currently works, this way it'd allow for more precisely tweekable 'bomb' type items, using say the gun formula or somesuch.

here's a sample revised item set that should be possible using only FFTPatcher, that replaces all the item effects with offensive ones.

Potion--> Firecracker: Deals MA/2 * MA fire-elemental damage, may inflict Blind
Hi-Potion--> Toxin: Deals MA/2 * MA water-elemental damage, may inflict Poison
X-Potion--> Portable Hole/Beartrap: Deals MA/2 * MA earth-elemental damage, may inflict Don't Move
Antidote--> Copper Needle: Deals MA/2 * MA thunder-elemental damage, may inflict Don't Act
Echo Grass--> Goblin Fan: Deals MA/2 * MA wind-elemental damage, may inflict Silence
Eye Drops--> Snow Globe: Deals MA/2 * MA ice-elemental damage, may inflict Slow
Pheniox Down--> Silver Dart: Deals MA/2 * MA holy-elemental damage, may inflict Faith
Soft--> Cursed Nail: Deals MA/2 * MA dark-elemental damage, may inflict Death Sentence
Maiden's Kiss--> Gorgon's Head: Deals MA/2 * MA non-elemental damage, may inflict Petrify
Remedy--> Pandora's Box: inflicts random positive and negative status, 100% accurate.

Well, this is exactly what I did with my Alchemist class in Horrid Disarray (not what Skip Sandwich said so much). My Alchemist class uses the Item skillset (Alchemy) and uses items with tweaked functions (functions in the sense of use, not math).

I always thought that the Chemist class was too broken in FFT. And that the Squire sucked balls in comparison. So, what did I do? Make a Soldier and Medic class that both sucked balls. These classes are base classes that make you want to level up in order to get the good job classes. My Medic class is a very varied (but limited) healer and the Soldier is much like the Squire (though I decided to keep the "Squire" class (instead of the Soldier class) for much more practical purposes, which I will divulge later on in my Horrid Disarray topic). Also, the Chemist can equip a gun. Too broken. My suggestion, since you don't want to eliminate the Chemist class altogether and create an Alchemist class, is that you can keep the Chemist class, yet balance its Item set. Not all items should heal, but not all items should hurt. That way it's more strategic. You gotta decide what to do in your turn. It also gives the Chemist a little more power. Remember, if you have an Oracle-esque class, if you give any other class the power to do so many varied status changes, then why have an Oracle-esque class in the first place? Just balance it. Healing items as well as problem items .

Well Healing items is a problem in my opinion from the get go.
Do I
A: Use Wish (an instant heal) to assure my other character doesn't die.
B: Use Cure and hope for the best
C: Throw a potion and forget about the perhaps logical process, from the other two.

In my opinion items that heal take away a bit, it lends too much of a crutch for enemy and ally alike.

Oracles are still special in that their skills can hit multiple enemies while these items would only hit a single enemy. Also the item suggestions from Skip Sandwish are more Geomancy based then Oracle based, in this case, I do agree though that they should buff and debuff though, if items are Only retrieved in Very limited supply... that could increase their worth and usefulness. Now, as you two have had a bit more experience with such is there anyway for Items to have a % to hit?

Not that I know of LD. =( When I changed Chemists to Alchemists in Shuushin, all the items had 100% status ... which is why I ended up making them the hardest class to get, since 100% is so broken. You can't change the formulas of the skills obviously and I'm not sure you can change the formulas for the items either. You'd be better off ask Zodiac if one can ASM hack item formulas.

Skip Sandwich's suggestions are great, but I've no clue how you'd even do that. I didn't see any item formulas other than Heal(Z*10), HealMP(Z*10), Remove Status, Remove Status, Heal (1-X), and HealAll.

Edit: Nevermind! Apparently the formula list for items is the same as the ability formula list. Then this is totally possible.

I was thinking about something like this as well.  I was thinking of giving everyone the item ability, but powering down items a lot.  There's a few ways that you can do this:

- Limited amount of items.  Either have a max of ten items each in-battle.  You can stock 99 or more of them outside of battle (so you don't have to keep buying more).
- Less useful.  Phoenix Down doesn't work 100% of the time.  Potions are half as effective.
- Chemists are the only ones who can use items as effectively as they are in regular FFT.  Learning item abilities (eg. Phoenix Down) allows you to use them normally.
- Chemists can have more than 10 items in battle.  How much, I'm not sure.  
- Chemists can have a main skill like "Drink" or "mix" (like in FF5).  

Doing this, Chemists could be a really powerful class.  But, they might outshine White Mages (who should be the main healers).  So they could be powered down even more.  Perhaps remove the double effectiveness of items?

Here's an overview of Chemists in various FF games to give you some ideas:
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml)

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Now, as you two have had a bit more experience with such is there anyway for Items to have a % to hit?

I know I'm not one of the two people you talking to, but besides what Lydyn said, I did come across something when I was messing around with Blood Suck and Inflict Status Code. You may know this already, though.

As it turns out, Separate [Single Status] isn't a repetition of All [Single Status]. The difference can be seen easily if you attempt to use former with formula 38, which is the 100% hit one that Fear spells use. Using that formula, I discovered that Separate [Single Status] has a maximum ceiling of 25% when it comes to infliction and cancellation.

25% may be understandably too low for you, but as Lydyn said, that's currently your only other option.

(For the record, Random [Single Status] with formula 38 has a 0% chance always IIRC.)

Quote from: "Havermayer"- Limited amount of items.  Either have a max of ten items each in-battle.  You can stock 99 or more of them outside of battle (so you don't have to keep buying more).

The limitation of in-battle amount of items regardless of how many items you already currently isn't possible, especially for the computer which will always have an infinite amount of items/katanas/weapons to throw at you. (Fucking infinite Elixirs.)

Lydyn's Shuushin had something along the right idea: limit the buying of items/finding of items (though maybe that would make Move-Find Item more viable in areas that aren't Nelveska or Deep Dungeon or Germinas Peak) and have some or most or all of them have to be gotten from poaching monsters.

Quote- Less useful.  Phoenix Down doesn't work 100% of the time.  Potions are half as effective.

Currently we can't do the Phoenix Down thing outside of doing Separate Dead like I said above, and 25% Cancel Dead might be too low for some people's taste.

Potions can be halved, though. I think Lydyn did that for Shuushin as well.

Quote-Chemists are the only ones who can use items as effectively as they are in regular FFT.  Learning item abilities (eg. Phoenix Down) allows you to use them normally.

Your phrasing here is a bit...confusing.

If I get you correctly, then you're basically just suggesting that Chemists be the only one with access to Throw Item by making it only be an Innate and then having Throw Item no longer learnable, then I agree with that also being a step in the right direction.

If you're instead saying, however, that we should somehow make it so that only Chemists could use Items, then they would have to be a special class for special character(s) and that obviates this entire discussion thus far.

Quote- Chemists can have more than 10 items in battle.  How much, I'm not sure.

Um...what?

Quote- Chemists can have a main skill like "Drink" or "mix" (like in FF5).

Good Zord, no.

As much as I like Final Fantasy 5 (I think it's favorite one after FFT even though I've still yet to finish it), FF5 Chemists are as to FFT Calculators as Hyperstorm is to Franklin Richards.

Basically, if FFT Calculators were freaking broken just for their Skill Set (since they literally had nothing else good with their shitty speed and weapon choice and stats), then FF5 Chemists are basically beyond broken since you can the actual class itself has decent stat growth and equipment (not that it matters) on top of Drink/Mix raping everything in its omnidirectional path without mercy.

If you're just suggesting that Items should only be auto-targeting, then I apologize for the mini-rant and will say that I find it interesting despite the fact that might be too much of a limitation if LD is going to both keeping Chemists around in the first place.

QuoteHere's an overview of Chemists in various FF games to give you some ideas:
http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/chemist.shtml)

Nice. Is there a way to them that fit instead of a fullscreen without having to move back and forth?



Anyway, I wholly support Chemists getting weakened since I myself will getting rid of them entirely.

25% hmm...?  That seems a bit low, I think I'll do a few experiments with these to see what can done with them.

Well as posted in the other topic, Chemists have now been replaced with... a name... that deals something with using Summoned Monster Essences... which I need a name for, though this is the spiritual successor to Summoner, it will be replacing Chemist, that means I will need another class to replace Summoner, altogether, but lets get this idea straightened out...  We have 14 free ideas, and they can be for anything! Just link a monster to it and I will try to make it a monster skill and have this item use said skill!

I'll come up with something good to kill summoner off

does it need to be magical?

or any

It can be anything, really. Though do you think your "Assassin" idea should replace it?

Steel Giant Soul would be sick no lie

Hmm, yes it would be quite interesting, as I said, feel free to come up with the skills you'd like each essence to use {14 in all}.

Umm... ok

Ghoul's Essence- Uses Death Cold (slow)
Cyclops's (Flotiball) Eye- Casts Circle
Grenade- Casts Small Bomb
Volatile Feather- Casts Feather Bomb
Demonic Evil- Casts Dark Holy (very rare essence poached from monsters)
Damned Soul- Casts Death Sentence
Hammer Charm- Casts Shake Off
Enchanted Stone- Casts Mimic Titan
Blessed Leaf- Casts CLAM spirit :]
Vampire's Tooth- Casts Blood Suck (o.O)
Bloodfiend's Revenge- Casts Lifebreak
Behemoth's Horn- Casts Giga Flare
Behemoth's Pride- Casts Ulmagust
Goblin's Wristband- Casts Turn Punch
Dragon's Soul- Casts Fire Breath

Thats all i got for now.

Okay, now I'm confused LastingDawn.

Don't you already have a Blue Mage class?

Quote from: "The Damned"Okay, now I'm confused LastingDawn.

Don't you already have a Blue Mage class?

no

the Reliquian is going to be using his skills from Relics

Relics can be bought (the basic ones), stolen, found, mission rewards, etc, but never poached

Quote from: "Voldemort7"no

If you meant that literally, then.... (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1363)

Reason I brought the Blue Mage thing up is because it seems like whatever this Monster Essence thing is Blue Mage at this point. So...are Monster Essences used by Blue Mages or another class? I'm confused because this thread started out as just a replacement for Chemist....

WTF is blue mage doing on that job tree

???

I agree with The Damned then

Monster Essence Man cannot co-exist with Blue Mage

too similar

i prefer keep blue mage. the only way to save essencedude is to have the souls use abilities that are not neccessarily monster skills, but idk how exciting that even sounds

While I was testing out a few of my own new weapons, I came across two problems that may apply to your patch as well, LastingDawn:

• I think the reason that I initially thought you couldn't change Shuriken and Bombs into other weapons was because I've still found no way of making the (changed) product show up in the normal Weapon list. So, right now, those six slots are still useless.
• Similary, you were thinking about using the 14 Items slots for Monster Essence spaces, weren't you? Well I was thinking earlier that due to my own problems with Chemists being worthless assholes that I had overlooked something. So I go to check what formulas are actually available to Items and, unfortunately, it is as I remembered that there are only five "formulas" available to Items, all of them healing ones.(Unless you're Undead, then it harms--I've just now realized "Undead Reversal" only affects AI Behavior, not formula behavior, doesn't it?) So unless all of these moves are supposed to be healing ones, I'm sort of curious if you've found a way to get around this block.

Seriously, is there any information on what the Second Table does? I'm asking (again) because I tried changing it for Fire Ball and seeing if that would make it appear in the Weapons List and changing it for Cashmere and see if that would appear in the Item List and nothing happened....

I think the relative the second table has is mostly for Materia Blade ... I'm not sure though. As in you can change something -to- 20 and have it be the item the skills have to have to use. I could be wrong though.

Edit:
Using glitched classes successfully (Credits: Lasting_Dawn (for testing) )

There is a known problem is changing Item, Throw, Draw Out, Jump, & Geomancy can results in glitches. Changing the skills results in weapon ranged 00% hitting abilities, and changing the skillset results in the learned abilities being based off of the base (squire) learned skills.

However it's been tested by Lasting_Dawn (and I hear SentialBlade as well) that unique characters that are tied to unique base classes (such as Holy Knight, Hell Knight, etc.) are free from this glitch. This is mostly news for any patches that may exclude generics in the future (when one is able to remove the Solider Office), since then they have free reign  to change their classes as they see fit.

Quote from: "The Damned"While I was testing out a few of my own new weapons, I came across two problems that may apply to your patch as well, LastingDawn:

• I think the reason that I initially thought you couldn't change Shuriken and Bombs into other weapons was because I've still found no way of making the (changed) product show up in the normal Weapon list. So, right now, those six slots are still useless.
• Similary, you were thinking about using the 14 Items slots for Monster Essence spaces, weren't you? Well I was thinking earlier that due to my own problems with Chemists being worthless assholes that I had overlooked something. So I go to check what formulas are actually available to Items and, unfortunately, it is as I remembered that there are only five "formulas" available to Items, all of them healing ones.(Unless you're Undead, then it harms--I've just now realized "Undead Reversal" only affects AI Behavior, not formula behavior, doesn't it?) So unless all of these moves are supposed to be healing ones, I'm sort of curious if you've found a way to get around this block.

Seriously, is there any information on what the Second Table does? I'm asking (again) because I tried changing it for Fire Ball and seeing if that would make it appear in the Weapons List and changing it for Cashmere and see if that would appear in the Item List and nothing happened....

That is not actually 100% true, the "5 formulas" are actually just an oversight, any formula works, try it for yourself, you can put the 25% weapon strike skills in them (I guess in this case... item... use?) therefore with a 50% chance to use it's skill, or attack with WP they each have their use.

the main problem with asigning items other formulas, is that as items, they can't be assigned Y or X vaules, and if the formula references WP, it'll take the WP from the character's equiped weapon, and not the item, otherwise they work fine.
:EDIT: also, IIRC, you can't change item's range/area, as its tied to the skillset and not the skill.

You also can't change the animation for it at the moment as far as I can tell, but that's probably the least of your problems at this point.

*is still using the Truth set to test Gambler without having changed in any animation*

I think Vanya said he found where they were located and just overlooked by Melonhead... along with the Fire, Ice, and Thunder balls.
 I could be wrong though.

In any case... this thread will be getting an overhaul! The Monster Essence User thing, is now something of the past! The new plan is a Rune Mage (name pending anyone have a better name for a Magician that uses Runes, please feel free to come up) they use what was the Item spots, as their primary source of power, they will differ from item by using things that can only be done by them, and healing is Not on  that list.  So if I may have a few ideas for such? Anything with X's will work, if memory serves right, and as you can guess they will each use a new icon for each of the current Item Icons.

I belive you mean that anything WITHOUT X or Y values will work, since like weapons, items have no X or Y value slots to edit.

Runologist

Runebreaker!  Runic!  Runemaster!  Shatterer!  Spellbreaker!  Sigil Tracer!  Symbologist!  Enchanter!  ...Disenchanter!  Arcanist!  Artificer!  Tinker!

Runescaper!   (lol)

Several ways you can go with it, using different flavors of items, obviously the above isn't even close to an exhaustive list.  Runebreakers through Arcanists would probably use magical items, runes, magical symbols, that sort of thing, while Artificers and Tinkers could have mechanical devices which produce effects when used.  Runescapers would use items with intentionally awful graphics.

archealogist!

Why not just lower the amount of items you can carry instead of having 99 Phoenix Downs limit it down to 10 or 20. Or if possible make it so you have to choose 5 or 10 items to take into the battle.
Make the Chemist the only character that can use Phoenix Downs, Elixirs, and other high powered items making Chemist a more useful character, while also making other characters rely on magic for HP and Raise when a Chemist is not present.

Another thing that you could do is make it so that Chemist can use Throw like Ninjas and give them a wide variety of spells through items, but make it so that the higher powered spell items can only be obtained through steal, catch, or from random treasures. NOT BUYABLE!

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"I belive you mean that anything WITHOUT X or Y values will work, since like weapons, items have no X or Y value slots to edit.

I'm pretty sure that for the sake of Item slots that we can't change at the moment Z = X.

I may be wrong on this one since I've been trying to get rid of Items completely, not test them out at this point. (Although I may have to since that class is pissing me off.)

Quote from: "GZGoten"Make the Chemist the only character that can use Phoenix Downs, Elixirs, and other high powered items making Chemist a more useful character, while also making other characters rely on magic for HP and Raise when a Chemist is not present.

You can't do that in a job class game, at least for generics.

Even if you could, that would be speaking to how much more powerful that class is over others, which I'm sure is part of the reason LastingDawn wants to get rid of Chemist in the first place--I know it is for me.

nope, Z is a completly different variable, I know, I've tried it before.

Did I say of that which works with X or Y...? Well I must have been quite tired, in any case here are all of the formula that work with Weapons, so I think the same applies to items...

(Stolen from Zodiac's thread)

Quote1   Dmg       [Weapon]
02   Dmg       [Weapon] 25% cast given spell
03   Dmg       [WP * WP] 100%?
04   {If Elemental Fire: Fire Spells/Elemental Ice: Ice spells, Elemental Thunder: Thunder spells}
05   Dmg       [Weapon]
06   AbsrbHP   [Weapon]
07   Heal      [Weapon] 100%
11   Success   [100%]
1E   Dmg       [MA * MA / 2] 100%
1F   Dmg       [CFM * TFM * [MA * MA / 2] 100%
24   Dmg       [PA / 2 * MA] 100%
2D   Dmg       [PA * WP]
2F   AbsrbMP   [PA * WP]
30   AbsrbHP   [PA * WP]
31   Dmg       [PA * PA / 2]
32   Dmg       [PA + PA / 2]
37   Dmg       [PA]    Knockback 50%?
3E   Dmg       [Target_CurrentHP - 1] 100%
43   Dmg       (Caster_MaxHP - Caster_CurrentHP) 100%
44   Dmg       (Target_CurrentMP) 100%
45   Dmg       (Target_MaxHP - Target_CurrentHP) 100%
4A   HealHP    [100%]   HealMP [100%] 100%
4B   Heal      [1..9] 100% if unit is dead; 0% instead *not sure if you'll be able to target the dead.
57   Success   [100%]   +1 level
58   Success   [MA]   Turns target into Moldball
59   Success   [MA]   -1 level
5D   Success   [100%]   0% If not dragon   Add: Quick?? *Dragon LevelUp*
5E   Dmg       [MA * MA / 2]
5F   Dmg       [MA * MA / 2]
60   Dmg       [MA * MA / 2]

It should be noted that while formula that reference WP do work with items, they always take the WP from the user's equiped weapon, and not that of the item. I haven't tested what happens when the user is not wielding a weapon though.

Probably 0% if I were to guess. Though this in terms gives weapons with decent WP but poor formulas a use, though not sure if I should cling to that...

Would it be possible to make items require a charge time and have no inventory requirement?
Instead of having a stock of items make it so the chemist has to create them before use, which is what the charge would be for.
If it is possible to items more or less potent based on how many job levels are in chemist it could potentially balance items out.
That plus adding damaging items could make chemist a good class.

An idea to insert, if I may? I like the premise of attacking with items; throwing fire balls and lightning balls with a chemist always seemed more...logical to me anyway, than a ninja. Ninja's should only throw weapons. >.> And shurikens.

Anywho, running with that idea, why not make the chemist class into a Necromancer of types? Now, hear me out before you classify me as off my rocker. What if you allow him to "mix" or "create" concoctions that require a charge time on the field, and use an item, which when thrown at an enemy, gives effects? Such as status', damage, and maybe even a chance at knockback for some of them? Aoe anyone?

As for necromancy and *raising the dead*, which is where this thread started, that ties in beautifully. Make phoenix downs rare, like a rare poach, or even better, a War Trophy (until late game when they're *expensive* to buy, or a DD battle which is really hard gives out as a War Trophy when you win). This way, you don't have mass spamming of phoenix down's, but it's still useful. Of course you'd want to check mechanics like whether you'd want it to charge at all or for a while, MP costs, and what amount of life they would be rez'd at.

That also allows for a darker class, which I feel mercenaries is aiming for, anyway. And it may allow for some of the weird weapons you guys have been thinking up. Just throwing it out there, in case you guys like it.

Hmmm...I forgot about this thread. The name of the class finally gives me an idea considering Monk....

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"It should be noted that while formula that reference WP do work with items, they always take the WP from the user's equiped weapon, and not that of the item. I haven't tested what happens when the user is not wielding a weapon though.

Sorry about not responding to this when I found out a week ago by playing around with my Gambler; as aforementioned, I had completely forgotten about this thread.

Anyway, WP is counted 0 apparently (which makes sense) and thus the formula goes to 0. It will still "hit", but it will cause 0 damage in and of itself.

Quote from: "DarkOmega"*Good ideas in print*

Unfortunately, IIRC, Charge times and AOE won't work for our current restrictions with Item. They will always be instant and have an Effect Area of 0 in FFTPatcher/1 in-game (for now).

Trust me, this game's system currently hates Necromancers who actually try to re-animate the (un)dead.

Aww man...lame. Well, I was reading the other threads, and realized that this has been brought up before; I apologize for not doing my research before blabbering off. Lol. On a happier note....MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Okay, so the idea I initially got with regards to this job class ended up not really panning out because I remembered that you still have Oracle around; thus, this class shouldn't be the status giving class or at least the negative status giving class. (I did, though, actually get a lot of inspiration for Time Mage, so I will try and share that with you when the time comes.)

Besides that, I was then just going to have them be the only class with all eight elements...until I remembered that you already have Invoker doing that.

So, I was kind of left with a hodgepodge of ideas inspired by Saga Frontier (which I've played), some Dungeon and Dragon (which I've looked up) and previous items (some of the lesser ones that I've kept because I don't think I can make enough new ones without infringing on other territory):

• Ether needs to stay since there's currently no other way of regaining MP, especially since Chakra is probably going to be cut from Monk. It could even see it increasing from 20 MP to 30 MP, though that's the most. (Hi-Ether shouldn't be coming back, though.) Rename it "Mind Rune" if you keep the Rune motif.
  
• Potion also staying is pretty harmless since it's going to get outpaced rather quickly but it would still remain a decent healing option to save someone from a deathblow you couldn't otherwise stop. Might want to increase this to 50 HP or something. (Hi-Potion and X-Potion similarly shouldn't be coming back.) Similarly, rename this "Body Rune" to contrast the above.
  
• Weapon Rune: I'm trying to decide which the lesser evil to use is: the basic weapon formula or the gun formula? Either way, the physical classes (outside of Monk) will be doing more damage with this attack than the magical classes, but the gun formula probably raises too fast and too far. Still, Weapon Rune would end up outpacing Attack in a lot of places concerning it would be 100% accurate. Sigh.
  
• Vitality Rune: This would add Regen to one person at 100%.
  
• Hide Rune: Due to the fact that Transparent doesn't work for the AI and I think another class of yours has a skill that gives Transparent to others anyway, this Rune differs from its Saga Frontier counterpart. It forces Defending and Don't Move on the target at 100%.
  
• Freedom Rune: This would cancel Petrify, Don't Act and Sleep. That's it, though.
  
• Wall Rune: Well, Wall would be perfect for this...if it would work. At the moment, it just casts the standard (former White Magic) Wall of Protect and Shell on one target at 100%.
  
• Insanity Rune: This adds Confusion at 100%.
  
• Holy Water also needs to stay. Just rename it "Holy Rune". After these seven, the other five probably shouldn't be able to be bought in shops, though Vitality Rune and Weapon Rune might need to end up also not being bought in shops.
  
• Dwarf Rune: Similar to Hide Rune, this has to be changed greatly, but more for a formula-based reason. Instead it would cause basically be an instant Mute to one target, cutting their MP to nothing.
  
• Soul Rune: This probably the best buffer that they (and possibly anyone else) is going to be getting since it's one shot deal: It would add Regen, Haste, Protect, Shell, Berserk, Faith, Reraise and Death Sentence. Yeah....
  
• Stasis Rune: This would Stop one person at 100% rate.
  
• Pain Rune: This would double the pain of whoever it hits, basically using the TargetMaxHP - TargetCurHP formula.
  
• Death Rune: Ah, so now we come to the new Elixir, except that it causes Death to everything and anything it touches (that isn't a boss or Immortal). I actually consider this to be weaker than Elixir considering Phoenix Down was basically a mass produced version of this and pretty much all major characters will doubtless be Death-immune. Similarly, unlike Phoenix Down/Elixir destroying (you as an) Undead, there will probably still be a few items that Cancel Dead and thus block this entirely.

Funny how a lot of these ended up still being status based.

...Dammit.

Regardless these are Fantastic ideas! I really like them, also it works to give a bit of the old White Mage to the Runic/Rune Mage/Scryer/Rune User/etc. A lot of those are really unique, but until we fix Death Sentence... I can't see us making that one work yet.

Damn, I'm stupid.

How did I forget about the Death Sentence thing?

Ugh.

Let's see...maybe if you changed Soul Rune to Reraise, Undead, Haste, Berserk, Protect, Shell, Reflect, Faith or something like that. Soul Rune was massively useful in Saga Frontier since it doubled stats basically, but you can't really do that here.

I'm pretty sure reraise and undead status cancel each other, much like slow and haste

Reraise can't stack on top of Undead, but they certainly don't cancel each other out.

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to make Undead Crystal/Treasure 100% of the time by inflicting Undead on things with Reraise, which effectively negates Undead revival for some reason, and then killing them.

Well actually, the Weapon Rune idea, I don't like a lot... it breaks the purpose for the "Magic" of the Rune Class. So I will be altering that to Monster Runes, which deals a 100% separate status to Monsters and Monsters only, of course this will change the Dragoon's purpose, to affect all monsters with their Dragon Skill. Would that be an acceptable thing?

I would personally think so.  Dragons tend to be more rarely encountered as far as monsters go, no?  So dragoons affecting all monsters would comfortably increase their scope.

As per The Damned's suggestion, the Scryer is just about ready to go!
Update on the first post!

Great name, Scryer.

You've got some really creative things going on with those runes.  I'm especially fond of Hide Rune, and I really like how you're implementing Fury/Faith modification.  Makes those two stats a lot more meaningful.

Id actually go for a higher effect for the runes (Faith and Fury Runes) unless you are going to make more then one (or two) of each. +20 and +5 perm maybe?

Oh there's many more then one, there's probably going to be at least 10 of each, they would be treasures for fulfilling specifics in certain battles, also a guaranteed batch for giving one side the "advantage" in the Lion War. But now Fury is a double edged sword, it carries the same fear as it does with Faith, the higher your Fury the more you damage, but the more you take physical damage.

You should give them move-find item as it fits them searching for runes.

Well that will probably be innate to both the Scryer and the Traveler.

Alright! Large update on the first post, this is basically the format of how things will look on the first posts from hereon out!

Very nice! That was quite easy to follow and thorough all at once.

Looks great LD, very clear and easy to read. Will definitely make the job threads better, much better.

Here's an idea for the Elixir replacement rune, have it increase the target's level by +1, call it the Dream rune. Admittedly, the only use such an item would be to the player is to speed up level grinding for stats, but imagine what the enemy could do with it's unlimited supply. Alternatively, make it a self-destruct style attack, the Martyr rune or somesuch.

Elixir - Heaven's Rune (Recover's all HP/MP while Slowing, stopping, and freezing the target in place) *Is Impossible* Any ideas for this would be great.

Hrm...  It might step on the toes of other abilities, but Don't Move and Don't Act would effectively stop them without preventing Regen or Haste.  All these statuses except for Regen are based on battle time, not turns, correct?  So Haste shouldn't make Don't Move and Don't Act wear off faster.  Haste would make Regen occur faster, so while they wouldn't be fully healed, they would get the healing faster than they would otherwise.  Thing is... that wouldn't heal mp and it wouldn't occur fast enough to really help remove the unit from being in danger.  Hrm... Protect and Shell too?  Which would wear out faster, the positive statuses or the negative?

Also, wonderful organization.  Very informative.

QuoteAlright! Large update on the first post, this is basically the format of how things will look on the first posts from hereon out!

Looks neat.

I won't comment on the skills, yet..,

Alright, Final format, I put up a little extra something...

That is awesome.  I love your using the traditional FF jobs to represent about where the stats fall.

The new format is GREAT! Planning to update the other threads the same way?

Here is something completely different for Elixir... Not sure if it's what you're going for.
Refresh Rune (Sets CT00 to all enemy and ally units)
Could be helpful for high speed teams.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Here's an idea for the Elixir replacement rune, have it increase the target's level by +1, call it the Dream rune. Admittedly, the only use such an item would be to the player is to speed up level grinding for stats, but imagine what the enemy could do with it's unlimited supply. Alternatively, make it a self-destruct style attack, the Martyr rune or somesuch.

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Here's an idea for the Elixir replacement rune, have it increase the target's level by +1, call it the Dream rune. Admittedly, the only use such an item would be to the player is to speed up level grinding for stats, but imagine what the enemy could do with it's unlimited supply. Alternatively, make it a self-destruct style attack, the Martyr rune or somesuch.

Hmm... I Really like this idea, but it would be another Rare rune then, in the same vein as Faith and Fury Rune, hmm... Also the other one is a bit... overused admittedly, in Mercenaries by this point.

Quote from: "SilvasRuin"Elixir - Heaven's Rune (Recover's all HP/MP while Slowing, stopping, and freezing the target in place) *Is Impossible* Any ideas for this would be great.

Hrm...  It might step on the toes of other abilities, but Don't Move and Don't Act would effectively stop them without preventing Regen or Haste.  All these statuses except for Regen are based on battle time, not turns, correct?  So Haste shouldn't make Don't Move and Don't Act wear off faster.  Haste would make Regen occur faster, so while they wouldn't be fully healed, they would get the healing faster than they would otherwise.  Thing is... that wouldn't heal mp and it wouldn't occur fast enough to really help remove the unit from being in danger.  Hrm... Protect and Shell too?  Which would wear out faster, the positive statuses or the negative?
Also, wonderful organization.  Very informative.

An interesting concept, but I'm not sure if the pros outweigh the cons... Don't Move and Don't Act is Effectively a longer Stop without the extra damage taken, no matter what Positives, I'm afraid it wouldn't last out the Negative...

Quote from: "dwib"The new format is GREAT! Planning to update the other threads the same way?

Here is something completely different for Elixir... Not sure if it's what you're going for.
Refresh Rune (Sets CT00 to all enemy and ally units)
Could be helpful for high speed teams.

While nice this is unfortunately impossible... Items only ever target a single unit, and CT00 is a MA + X% deal, while Items only touch the "Z", portion of it. (That might be possible to change with some hacking but... we don't know how yet.)

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"

Quote from: "Skip Sandwich"Here's an idea for the Elixir replacement rune, have it increase the target's level by +1, call it the Dream rune. Admittedly, the only use such an item would be to the player is to speed up level grinding for stats, but imagine what the enemy could do with it's unlimited supply. Alternatively, make it a self-destruct style attack, the Martyr rune or somesuch.

This IS the Elixir Replacement after all, I guess there's no reason Not to have it rare. Alright, so Heaven's Rune is now "Prestige Rune" "Activating the power within this Rune calls forth a surge of power, that courses through the body, leaving the holder's mind and body stronger then before."

Can I know the text space limit?

Hmm... I don't quite know off the top of my head... I would say anywhere from 20-25 characters.

This Scryer can be quite cool char, he doesn't have img yet, doesn't he.

That he does not, SplashWoman offered to draw up a concept for us, so I'm merely waiting for that.

Resurrection!

This likely will not have any dealings with the Rad/Ramza Skillset idea, but if people think that the Runes should be split in two, then place come forth and bring your case.