[Old] FFT: Plus Chat/discussion topic

[GeneralStrife]

why would you want to make it as close as possible to the original.
i played vanilla so much i cant stand it, i need something different to even slightly touch fft now.

[MysticKnightFF5]

I'm a balance whore; I really am all about balance.

[Dome]

I'm a balance whore; I really am all about balance.

FFT: Plus main point is to rebalance the game

[MysticKnightFF5]

Please understand, I think you've made too many mechanical changes. There is no way of convincing me otherwise.

[Dome]

Please understand, I think you've made too many mechanical changes. There is no way of convincing me otherwise.

There is no need to convince you xD
Facts:
1) I've changed a lot of small things (600.000+ differences from this patch and the vanilla version)
2) The main focus of FFT: Plus is to balance the game

If you want to play it or not/like it or not...well, that only YOUR decision :-)

[tombs]

finished the game, enjoyed the patch and it wasn't much harder than vanilla, so easier than 1.3 eztype 

some comments:
-I don't know if it's a design feature or not but there's definitely less emphasis on sandbagging in this version (which is awesome because gameplay doesn't drag on as much)
-monks are pretty much useless in this game, they deal insignificant damage, stigma magic is useless, i don't mind the elemental change though
-same thing with summoners, eg. rofel casts bahamut, deals 50 damage to my team
-ramza's focus (prot+shell+regen) is definitely OP, ie. mini mbarrier, makes 1on1 duels much easier
-final stages were pretty easy too, rofel and kletian fell down pretty quick, except for balk's army of robots
-hardest stages were actually in monster fights (ghosts having 100% sleep/stop's wtf) and probably elmdor instanuking everyone using chiri

anyway my final setup, all specials in their base jobs:
-ramza: battleskill/punchart (for chakra only), speed save, 2swords - physical damage + occasional ultima
-agrias/meliadoul: item, hamedo, atk up/def up/concentrate - itembot and damage/equipment breaking
-cloud: drawout, hamedo, shortcharge - climhazzard (zodiac bosses), meteorain (it's like summon, but much better) and kiyomori
-rafa: truth+white magic, abandon, MA atkup/equip shield - magic damage + cure/raise
-beowulf: magic sword+white magic, abandon, precision - disabler + cure/raise
-worker 8: anti magic and dispose awesomeness

I usually switch between beowulf (he's great in non-boss fights) or worker 8, but leaned towards worker 8 in final stages

[Dome]

finished the game, enjoyed the patch and it wasn't much harder than vanilla, so easier than 1.3 eztype  
Yeah, I know: The patch has been designed to be enjoyable by everyone :-)

-I don't know if it's a design feature or not but there's definitely less emphasis on sandbagging in this version (which is awesome because gameplay doesn't drag on as much)
Sandbagging is boring

-monks are pretty much useless in this game, they deal insignificant damage, stigma magic is useless, i don't mind the elemental change though
Ignoring elemental is not a good move if you are going to use monks...anyway, Stigma magic and Chakra have been buffed for the next release

-same thing with summoners, eg. rofel casts bahamut, deals 50 damage to my team
Summons require some playtesting, will probably being buffed for the next release

-ramza's focus (prot+shell+regen) is definitely OP, ie. mini mbarrier, makes 1on1 duels much easier
Yeah...but Ramza needs something unique...any idea?

-final stages were pretty easy too, rofel and kletian fell down pretty quick, except for balk's army of robots
Don't worry, they have been buffed ;P

-hardest stages were actually in monster fights (ghosts having 100% sleep/stop's wtf) and probably elmdor instanuking everyone using chiri
Elmdor is easy if you don't want to steal his stuff...monsters are VERY strong...but remember that you can recruit them

anyway my final setup, all specials in their base jobs:
-ramza: battleskill/punchart (for chakra only), speed save, 2swords - physical damage + occasional ultima
-agrias/meliadoul: item, hamedo, atk up/def up/concentrate - itembot and damage/equipment breaking
-cloud: drawout, hamedo, shortcharge - climhazzard (zodiac bosses), meteorain (it's like summon, but much better) and kiyomori
-rafa: truth+white magic, abandon, MA atkup/equip shield - magic damage + cure/raise
-beowulf: magic sword+white magic, abandon, precision - disabler + cure/raise
-worker 8: anti magic and dispose awesomeness
Levels?

P.s: Thanks for the feedback!

[Joseph Strife]

About Ramza, he was the perfect char for sandbagging, since this is not as important as it is in other patches i think Ramza should for the fighter way, so his abilities should for either sand bagging (like wish, focus, heal, and yell) and he should have more damage dealing abilities, i think he only get something like this with Ultima, maybe some special damage dealing moves would make him just the perfect char.

[Dome]

Have you tried his Ch4 abilities?

[Joseph Strife]

Yeah, for he just stays the same, i only realy used Ultima and gave him Drow Out, so i could realy go for some damage with him

[Dome]

Imho, Ramza is fine the way he is...he is very strong, and can support his team and deal very good damage if he wants...

[Joseph Strife]

Ok, i was just trying to improve him, he's fine anyways, i just thought he could be even better

[tombs]

Dome, my party levels were mostly in the low 50s range

anyway i replayed using one of my other older saves and had an easier time with this team (just finished with adramelk, lv 38 max now, havent recruited specials yet):
heretic ramza: draw out, autopotion/counterflood/abandon,MA atkup - stacking MA gear for ultima/drawout/elemental
onion knight: jump, hamedo/autopotion, twohand - dragon whisker and stacking PA gear for jump/attacks
generic archer[/b]: time magic, autopotion/HP restore, short charge - yoichi bow and stack Sp gear, she's pretty awesome for OHKO-ing using short charge +10/+20
holy knight agrias: item, autopotion, throw item, move hp up - light robe for regen+shield, cherche for permadefend, a walking tank that revives, heals and pretty much immune to physical damage basically
chemist musty: snipe, abandon, equipshield - blaze gun, kaiser shield, germinas boots, again a hard-to-kill chemist + disable/break stats + healing rubber costume teammates using gun

but yeah the short charge archer definitely works in this version, especially since yoichi bow is so easy to poach..

[Dome]

I know, Archer is finally useful, even in late game thanks to that change :-)
Btw, after you have mastered the game and collected everything, I suggest you to go to the Deep Dungeon...but go at level 99!

[Wedge]

Almost done with Ch.1, been enjoying the gameplay so far. From the monster buffs I've decided to pretty much go with at least 1 monster every battle and they are a blast to use.

-I really enjoy the new Archer and Knight classes and feel like Archer can be used even in late game from its changes.
-Defend as Innate all and the rework makes it useful. Thank you.
-I'm kind of at odds and ends as for the Wizard class. I feel like the Fire/Ice/Bolt changes feel too gimmicky. I know you're trying to make them unique and such but in late game does the damage difference between the moves become more apparent? Tbh I think they were fine in their previous state.
-I really enjoy the altered Ramza so far, I like the focus that he is the leader and assists the teams with buffs/orders ect the only criticisms I have for him is more aesthetic.
-Hold the Line! -The name is weird to me, Warn or Preempt or anything would sound better.
-Cadet > Mercenary makes sense to me, but the Heretic title just seems a bit off since you can't really make a class out of it. Hes the leader so I would assume he'd have a job like Vanguard or something. But thats just me.
-THANK YOU for normalizing stat growth. I don't know why no one has done that in a patch until now.
-Monsters are worthwhile and actually a bit challenging. I look forward to seeing the other monsters. LOVE cats and goblins.

You were also asking for recommendations for making Ramza unique and possibly changing that new prot+shell+regen move? You could try giving Ramza a unique weapon skill (not sword exclusive) or keep the buffing/orders theme going. Maybe how the "Hold the Line!" skill is a defensive all party move, maybe make Ramza's Scream/Shout into an Offensive one affecting enemies negatively or some Offensive buff for the party or nearby allies, but that would be difficult considering the only offensive buffs I could think of would be Haste,+PA/MA/SP, which would be broken as hell.

Oh also is there ever going to be a WOTL script add-on for this patch in the future?

[obsidiandawn]

Playing at work when I have downtime, and enjoying it so far. It's difficult but not impossible, and I'm working my way through the Ch. 2 Lionel Arc as quickly as I can, forgoing hard leveling to make it more challenging, and to spend more time on the uniques later. Queklain is a pain in my ass.

Actually I feel some of the status abilities given to monsters are kind of cheesy at times, like the 100% Ghost Stat Ailments. Makes it more difficult, sure, but it's not what I think of as balanced. I don't mind it much though.

But Draclau, damn you, stop using raise on my Undead party members...

[wemustexpandordie]

If i recall correctly in fft 1.3 the monk had 4 movement, in this game they have 3. Am i right about the first part?

personally i like the monk with 4 movement spaces, i am wondering if you took it out (assuming i'm right about fft 1.3) because so how movement adds up when you add move + 1 and battle boots.

Something tells me everyone here is going to smack me when i say that i don't like the fact that monks can now wear headgear. I do agree that the monk needs more health, but i thought balancing him out by allowing headgear changes his principals. I think he needs a little more health that comes out of his naked stats, but not as much as headgear provides.

I always saw the monk as a flexiable, low HP, brawler. So instead of the health provided by a headgear i personally perfer a movement point.

Of course everyone here is going to disagree with me right?

If you don't think its balanced with 4 movement then fine, but if you are concerned with the movement adding up to 6 when you combine the boots and the move skill, can't you just give the monk 3 movement + innate move + 1? which will give the monk a movement of 4 but cap him at 5?

[Dome]

FFT 1.3 never had monks with 4 move (at least, not without the help of an ability/item)
Anyway...can you tell me your levels wemustexpandordie?

P.s: Don't be so defensive...no one is going to bite you

[Dome]

@Wedge
Yeah, difference in damage will become more apparent :-)

@obsidiandawn
For the next release, most monster skills are not going to be 100% anymore

[wemustexpandordie]

all my people are from lvls 13-17, if it matters i just finished Zigolois swamp.


But i need to expand on what i was saying cause i probably said it in the worst way possible.

Ok since you just stated 1.3 never had monks with movement 4 i must have put that in myself.

So i had split the classes into two parts and then i modified their movement

1.  Knights, samurai, ninja, all magic classes, archers, mines, dancers/bards, lancers
2. Squires, chemist, mediators, geomancers , thieves, monks

on the second group all but the squire gained an extra movement point.
The squires i allowed the use of helmets, shields and + 1 speed.
The thieves i gave the ability to use ninja swords and + 1 speed.

with the exception of the monks i considered the second group useful tools that had been out classed.
-Squires being inferior to knights by use of armor and shields.
-chemist being inferior to priest by inferior ability to reborn and no ability to provide boost.
-mediators having low odd abilities (something i know you touched on) and nice but 'bland' abilities.
-geomancers ranged attacks inferior to wave fist, earth slash and throws by ninja.
-thieves good for steal heart but that wasn't enough to make the class effective.