Arena battle videos and discussion

[Celdia]

~ A Clarification ~

I AM SO DERP has one purpose and one purpose alone. It is built to beat Y U SO DERP. It is extremely efficient at what it does and it fails in all other situations. It is the Paper in a game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. Most of you build Scissors teams. Y U SO DERP is a Rock team. If your team falls to both Y U SO DERP and I AM SO DERP, you should probably go back and study what is available in this patch for team building. Actually, with the exception of the one team it was built to defeat, if you lose to I AM SO DERP you should probably just get out of the competition. No one else should be losing to this team because it is intentionally terrible.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Referring to the fact they WERE built defensively in that instance?  Much easier to built on offence than defense, and if your only offence is Death Sentence AND you also have access to Item, once you're down to critical, it's sandbagging till you're dead.  If FDC focused solely on offence, he may have broken through, early in the match.

I think you missed the Dancers, my friend...

[doriantoki]

I think you missed the Dancers, my friend...

No.  Just because I didn't include them in my post, doesn't mean I didn't think about them.  They were a problem because the battle languished on for as long as it did.  More concentration on offence, and YUSD would have been thrown into sandbagging mode.

[CT5Holy]

It's kinda hard when 1. you do crap damage, 2. they can easily outheal your crap damage, and 3. Don't Act means they take less damage, and gives them time for the Dances to kick in.

[doriantoki]

It's kinda hard when 1. you do crap damage, 2. they can easily outheal your crap damage, and 3. Don't Act means they take less damage, and gives them time for the Dances to kick in.

Well, that's right.  When I say offence I mean, if you're on the offensive, maximize your PA/MA (ability granted), and the pick the most high damaging ones for the situation.  From the videos I've watched (and granted I haven't seen 100% of them all yet), maximized physical/magical abilities are dominant.  Spreading your stats out too thin and doing moderate/measly damage doesn't seem to be as effective in the current patch build.

[Celdia]

Yes, high damage output is very effective and its a popular approach to the Arena teams because of that but it isn't the end-all-be-all of design. But the thing with Raven's 'Y U SO DERP' team is that is takes everyone else's high damage output and just laughs at it by reducing it so much. I detailed how the team works in another thread but I'll repost most of it here since it seems like you're still balking at it like you don't understand what that team is designed to do.

This whole team screams of delay tactics. It forgoes any option of dealing real damage just so it can persist. That's all it needs to do. Every unit is built to take as little damage as possible from all sources so it can just keep spamming those dances to whittle away the enemy team's stats. It runs Stigma Magic and Items to deal with a lot of negative status effects so they can keep on dancing. This team doesn't care how fast you go or how hard you hit because in the end you'll be getting 1 action to their 9 or so and you'll only be doing the smallest amounts of damage, and that's when they'll move in with their knives and stab you to bits. "But what about Secret Fist and Death Sentence?!" you might ask. What about it? Death Sentence and Secret Fist exist on this team as a mercy to whomever is recording the battle so that it doesn't run for two hours. It can end a fight that much sooner but its not required by any means.

By simply being near-impossible to put down quickly, the AI can continually use coin-flip Dance skills to reduce all of your team's stats to 1. All that maximized PA and MA doesn't mean shit when two hours down the line (and yes, some of the test battles of this team lasted that long) they've been dropped to 1 each and Y U SO DERP is still standing strong doing what it does because you couldn't hurt it at the start of battle and you still can't hurt it now.

[doriantoki]

I didn't mean to make it seem like I was Balking at it.  Just having a discussion/conversation.  I understand that I'm late to the party, so to speak, and it's obviously the reason why.  I understand it must be frustrating to repeat information that's already been covered, but thank you, I do appreciate it.  I enjoy watching the matches, and have been looking for a type of FFT match service since the original came out on the PS.  And it's nice to know that there's a community developed around it with the intention of making it balanced, as well.

In essence, YUSD is a good test to see if a team is even worthy of placing in the competition.  That's good to know.

Wow, lol, I subconsciously capitalized Balk, as if it were the name  

[Mando]

Yes, high damage output is very effective and its a popular approach to the Arena teams because of that but it isn't the end-all-be-all of design. But the thing with Raven's 'Y U SO DERP' team is that is takes everyone else's high damage output and just laughs at it by reducing it so much. I detailed how the team works in another thread but I'll repost most of it here since it seems like you're still balking at it like you don't understand what that team is designed to do.

By simply being near-impossible to put down quickly, the AI can continually use coin-flip Dance skills to reduce all of your team's stats to 1. All that maximized PA and MA doesn't mean shit when two hours down the line (and yes, some of the test battles of this team lasted that long) they've been dropped to 1 each and Y U SO DERP is still standing strong doing what it does because you couldn't hurt it at the start of battle and you still can't hurt it now.

Unless your team is my team. In which case I take your defense, still smash your face in, send you to the plastic surgeon, and leave you with the bill. Not that my team is great by any means. Large summon AoE or badass RNG like petrify tend to screw me often, but hey most other teams are kind of fodder

[Barren]

A batch of Arena Matches: Celdia Edition 

FFT Arena 1.33 Celdia (I AM SO DERP) vs RavenOfRazgriz (Y U SO DERP)

FFT Arena 1.33 Eternal248 (Gorgan Gaze) vs Celdia (Even Worse Than It Was Before)

FFT Arena 1.33 doriantoki (Model Citizens) vs Celdia (Diamonds and Guns)

[Celdia]

spoiler: DERP v. DERP

DEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRP

spoiler: Gorgon Gaze v. Even Worse

I'll admit, when I looked at the length of the video I was honestly expecting it to be a quick round of mass petrify against my team. This is now my new favorite video on YouTube.

spoiler: Model Citizens v. D&G

Well doriantoki, you definitely make your point heard about high damage output here. I think I'll be watching your team to see how it fares against the others out there. I'd say more but it would just sound like I'm making excuses for my team because of how the fights are set up and I don't want to be one of those people bitching about the luck of the draw. GG, doriantoki. Looking forward to a rematch in the future. ^_^

...though I will say it hurts a bit to see my team finally go down to the new guy. XD

[formerdeathcorps]

Referring to the fact they WERE built defensively in that instance?  Much easier to built on offence than defense, and if your only offence is Death Sentence AND you also have access to Item, once you're down to critical, it's sandbagging till you're dead.  If FDC focused solely on offence, he may have broken through, early in the match.

If a team is from me, I guarantee you some kind of offense is involved with every member of the squad.  However, B Team's main goal is ranged, mostly unevadable offense, rather than closer-range, evadable hard-hitting force.  Hence, compared to squads like Blood or A Team, that squad is one of my weaker ones, especially since geomancy has been weakened since when I first made the squad (in Arena 129), and even then...Raven's early auto potion and slow dance triggers in that first round of the match he linked was what guaranteed his victory.  If things had happened according to what would happen on average, he probably would have lost Round 1, but I still would have lost Rounds 2 and 3 (since by the time my team finally makes contact on a large map, they would have been depleted of MP and PA).

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Unless your team is my team. In which case I take your defense, still smash your face in, send you to the plastic surgeon, and leave you with the bill. Not that my team is great by any means. Large summon AoE or badass RNG like petrify tend to screw me often, but hey most other teams are kind of fodder

My defense beats your offense now, Mr. Mando.  ^_^

spoiler: DERP BRAWL

Celdia's team is immune to everything I can do besides Slow Dance, hence how this is its only purpose in life.  That took far longer than it should have though, wow.

Also.

spoiler: Gorgon Gaze v Even Worse Than It Was Before

Them statues were like bricks on the dance floor.

*ba-dum-tush!*

spoiler: Model Citizens v Diamonds and Guns

Unexpected hax on Death Sentence ruins Celdia's offense.  Ouch.

[Mando]

Oh? I'm sure I could change that right fast. I haven't been keepig up in a while. I just have to guard your death sentence and it should do the trick. Eitherway I don't care enough to make an update right now perhaps later. Also how many updates and changes did that take XD?

I've lost complete interest in arena as of late anyways since I made that small update idk when... It was just an armor tweak too. No idea what other changes have been made.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

Not many, really.  Just me dropping shitty Dances and Reactions for better ones I should've been using anyway.  FFMaster essentially forced me to run Main Gauche when he changed H Bag, which sort-of-but-not-really helped.

Honestly, the Death Sentence just ends the game after your team stops being able to kill mine... it doesn't particularly do much until after my defense is already better than your offense due to the delay + Reraises + Archer being immune + etc.  All blocking it on the other units would do is make the match take longer and make your team even worse vs. most other teams since the easiest forms of blocking Death Sentence mean losing your Sleep immunities and Regen.  Your team still wins some games against me because their hits early are huge, but I need to get a bit unlucky on my Talk Skill / guard / Auto Potion / Dance for it.  Two offensive units just aren't enough to break my defense fast enough and consistently enough... and more specs to handle that just weakens them vs everything else.

Like Celdia said, I'm the Rock in a field full of Scissors.  ^_^

[Wiz]

Arena 1333 Beta Dol (I Hate Zalmo) vs CT5Holy (Mostly Holy People)

Arena 1333 Beta fdc (A Team) vs Vigilanti (Get on Status)

Arena 1333 Beta Angelus (The Norm Team) vs Dol (Annoying)

[RavenOfRazgriz]

spoiler: I Hate Zalmo v Mostly Holy People

...Those guys seem to hate all holy people, and not just Zalmo.  That was cruel.

spoiler: A Team v Get on Status

That third game, goddamn, Vigilanti got so lucky.  All those dodges and 50% hits did FDC in.  Thems the breaks, though, sometimes you just gotta get lucky.

spoiler: The Norm Team v Annoying

I can't imagine why Dol wouldn't run Wish on those Archers... I know FFMaster has the ASM to fix Hawk's Eye somewhere, I just don't think he applied it.  I'll check later, I've learned of a couple other randomly assorted bugs that need fixing anyway.

[Barren]

spoiler: Dol (I Hate Zalmo) vs CT5Holy (Mostly Holy People) Comments

504 Damage...OUCH! Fire weakness really can backfire

spoiler: fdc (A Team) vs Vigilanti (Get On Status!) Comments

Good back and forth battle between DPS and Status

spoiler: Angelus (The Norm Team) vs Dol (Annoying) Comments

HP Restore saved the day for Angelus

[Barren]

FFT Arena 1.333 RavenOfRazgriz (Vipers Harem Ending) vs Eternal248 (Samurai Zealots)

[Celdia]

spoiler: Vipers v. Zealots

Round 1: AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Round 2: Much like in the RP, even Vie's incompetence can't stop the Desert Cobras.

[RavenOfRazgriz]

spoiler: Vipers Harem Ending v Samurai Zealots

First game was glorious.  Second game was also glorious, I just wish I'd nailed more of his team with that Counter-Leviathan.  Vie's incompetence strikes as intended but can't stop the gravy train.