Red Wings Project

[MountainDew~]

If you're up for thinking creatively, (and trying to make a good mod/story), I think a story about the Red Wings would actually be pretty cool. Saying a Dissidia type game is similar to Jot5 is like saying every cameo ever is like Jot5.

I'm not sure... what type of story there'd be for that type of deal, especially since I've never played Dissidia, but if you think it's a better idea than the Red Wings one, why not?

[Jon]

Haha, why not both? But for now I'll only focus on the Red Wings mod. Pride showed me how to change stuff on the world map, so now I can have the player start wherever I want them to. While this is really, really awesome, now I have to make a new opening. I'll keep the first event, have some tutorial battle where you play as DK Cecil, then it goes to the world map - Baron which will probably somewhere west like Limberry. Look at this world map:


Limberry is Baron, then comes Beddha Sandwaste area which could be like Kaipo, Mist Village could be like Fort Bessalat, etc. I think I'll make a world map but have the points stay the same. Is there a way to replace the overworld / world map Ramza sprites? The one that moves from town to town?

Here is the FF IV world map btw:

spoiler

[Jon]

Here's a demo of the next event, a few things are totally wrong but its just little stuff that takes a few minutes to fix, but mainly I'd like just some feed back to whether the event itself story-wise is good or not, please keep in mind it follows event 1. Try to ignore the fact for now that the units don't face Cecil when he talks and when everyone is dead all units stand up, plus the music doesn't fade out at the end.

spoiler

[Durbs]

Here's a demo of the next event, a few things are totally wrong but its just little stuff that takes a few minutes to fix, but mainly I'd like just some feed back to whether the event itself story-wise is good or not, please keep in mind it follows event 1. Try to ignore the fact for now that the units don't face Cecil when he talks and when everyone is dead all units stand up, plus the music doesn't fade out at the end.

spoiler

Since you seem to be getting serious about the creation of this mod, I'll give you a bit more critical of a review.

Your events are good, but your dialogue doesn't fit Cecil at all, nor does the mood of the scenes. Cecil really isn't a bloodthirsty guy, he's someone who obeys orders silently and does his duty (esp. during the time we're talking about). He begins to question his orders quite quickly as the scenes below will show, and we can presume he began to question them shortly after stealing the crystal. Basically, what I'm saying is that you've failed to capture his character.

Take a look at this. This is the first cutscene from the DS version of FFIV.

spoiler

This is the second (in terms of relevance).

spoiler

Another good one that shows Cecil's final character turnaround.

spoiler

(Before you ask, yes, I have played through FFIV.)

[MountainDew~]

Yeah, Cecil never struck me as a humorous character, dark or otherwise. He never really laughs, and is always very serious. This Event's Cecil makes me think of someone bordering on psychopathic (i.e. The Shining's Jack's line "Here's Johnny!" and he's grinning the entire time), with his utter disregard for human life and his dark, dark sense of humor. Maybe I'm just reading too far into that line though.

I don't mean go full-blown emo, like, "My life has no meaning", or some sort, but Cecil always struck me as very humble, and not someone that brags about his talents or revels in a victory on the battlefield.

[Jon]

You guys are right, I should redo this stuff, hell I think Cecil is more the type of guy who would simply ask "You guys ready? Let's go..." instead of giving the whole "We are Baron and awesome" speech. I just wanted to have an epic moment where Cecil acts like some cool leader type guy marching with his soldiers into battle - so much that I forgot who Cecil is. Plus yeah, Cecil is waaaaay to psycho in the battle event. I think I was going too much in the direction of Snake there: he's hiding behind walls and pops out and then kills everyone, pretty much single-handly. When I think of Cecil, I usually think of a guy who is brave on the battlefield but not real life, and his main concern is his girlfriend. I think the two mages talking is fine, but yeah. Enough about that, its getting redone. Another concern a friend of mine had that I showed was that I was focusing too much on Cecil, my intention was to make a "nameless (player named) Red Wing recruit" the main protagonist. This actually is much harder than I thought because then Cecil would be the "hero from another story", and most likely would end up as an enemy of the protagonist. Either way, I messed it up, starting over from scratch, at least I learned how to do something in an event other than have units walking and talking...new Red Wings coming up!

Also as a side note, lol at the middle video at this moment:
Rosa: "Did something happen at Mysidia?"
Cecil: "No, its nothing."
Cold. But out of context. I should avoid stuff like that...

Sorry for being such a scatter brain on this, and I thank you for your interest and support! I just want to make a mod from the bad guys point of view but stay true (haha that rhymes) to FF IV. Please bear with me...

Edit: I thought about it, a leader of an army can't be a recruit, so the player's main character will kinda be like Baigan, in fact I decided to have it start totally different, with Cecil, Kain, Baigan and the player's unique commander unit they name. Same idea though, attack on Mysidia.

Edit edit: What's the code to change Ramza's sprite from Chapter 1 to Chapter 2&3 and Chapter 4? Does this code replace only the sprite and keeps the learned abilities?

[MountainDew~]

Baigan wasn't a Red Wing, though, he was the King's Advisor. I think an un-named Red Wing that you made solely for this story would actually work really well.

Well after reading it again, I see that I read it wrong. But that sounds good to me. I think that "Cecil's" personality that you used in this video would be fitting of the new Red Wing commander, someone that is worthy of an evil king. The "King" doesn't want another Cecil. Focus on Cecil, in my opinion, for the first few events (or up until he is demoted), might actually be better than otherwise. Cecil IS still the leader of the Red Wings in that video.

Just some character introduction in the first few events would be good, I guess. Your friend is right though. I never really thought about that lol.

Why don't Baron's Red Wings continue to dominate the battlefield, including at home when Cecil infiltrates Baron? The Red Wings sort of disappear from the story after their first show at Mysidia. The people that invade Yang's castle weren't the Red Wings, were they?

[Jon]

Well after reading it again, I see that I read it wrong. But that sounds good to me. I think that "Cecil's" personality that you used in this video would be fitting of the new Red Wing commander, someone that is worthy of an evil king. The "King" doesn't want another Cecil. Focus on Cecil, in my opinion, for the first few events (or up until he is demoted), might actually be better than otherwise. Cecil IS still the leader of the Red Wings in that video.

Yeah, that is what I will try to do, but here is the challenge: show everything through the eyes of the nameless Red Wing protagonist. I think I can accomplish this though, hopefully! I think its worth mentioning that the intro where usually the Lion War is explained and then the whole "this is the real hero of Ivalice" can easily be changed to an intro to who and what the Red Wings are and the intro to the protagonist.

Just some character introduction in the first few events would be good, I guess. Your friend is right though. I never really thought about that lol.

Instead of having the protagonist dancing around with a singing dancer, and Cecil correcting him and telling him to form up with the other soldiers, I believe I must show the player that he is as worthy as Cecil, so when Cecil and Kain go off to Mist we have a character to take charge of the Red Wings. He must be more mature and not a recruit in other words. That's pretty much the only way this will work. In theory, the protagonist could be a Red Wing at first and later change to a Dark Knight (to fill Cecil's role) or a Dragoon, since Baron apparently trains DKs and Dragoons. I never knew that really until I played FF IV Advance...

Why don't Baron's Red Wings continue to dominate the battlefield, including at home when Cecil infiltrates Baron? The Red Wings sort of disappear from the story after their first show at Mysidia. The people that invade Yang's castle weren't the Red Wings, were they?

I think maybe you may have forgotten, but yeah the Red Wings destroy Edward's castle Damcyan as seen here in the first 10 seconds:

spoiler

, and apparently attacked the inside of the castle since Anna was killed with arrows, they attack Fabul with airships as well and then Golbez's monsters attack the castle itself on foot, Kain makes a bargain with Cecil over Troia and then for a long while like you said, it seems they don't do anything, but then they attack the Dwarves in tanks in the Underworld in front of the Tower of Babil. Other than that, not much. But that's whats cool, a lot of gray unexplored areas which I can work with. Plus as said before (I think), one of the major character the player will have with them as a controllable guest and possible join up will be Kain! Kain will definitely play a major role since he turns to the dark side as well as the protagonist. I think I will have him actually be "found" by the protagonist at Mist after he was knocked out by Rydia's Titan. Of course there will be a few battles where Golbez makes appearances. More to come soon!

Edit: Now that I think about it, it could be totally possible and pretty cool if, maybe of course/nothing definite, Kain was the protagonist...? What do you guys think? Would you like to see Kain's point of view? Then I could have the game start with Cecil just returning from Mysidia and Kain and him heading out to kill the "phantom beast eidolon", the Mist Dragon. Once Kain gets knocked out by Titan, some Red Wings find him and escort him back to Baron, and that's where the game really starts: Kain leads the Red Wings on all the aforeamentioned attacks, plus it would be pretty awesome to play as one of the coolest FF characters in history. Kain is so cool that on several of the FF IV releases he was on the box art / title screen. Ideas? Anyone against this? This would also force my lazy ass into spriting an epic Kain sprite, or at least a nice base for one!

[Twinees]

Kain is already the commander of Barons Dragoons, so it would be weird if he suddenly ordered the Red Wings around.
When you are doing a story like this, you will need to get everything right for what actually happens to Kain for this part, for the FF4 fans. Just have a think about that

[Jon]

Kain is already the commander of Barons Dragoons, so it would be weird if he suddenly ordered the Red Wings around.
When you are doing a story like this, you will need to get everything right for what actually happens to Kain for this part, for the FF4 fans. Just have a think about that

But in the game, there are quite a few cut scenes where Kain is with the Red Wings, yes you're right its never said that he is their commander, so I suppose I should just have him on his own assisted by Red Wings. Who takes charge of them then after Cecil is demoted? I suppose Golbez, or some nameless commander type which is just a palette exchange of human Baigan. Still, if I bend the rules only slightly I believe I can make this work. Maybe once Kain is evil Golbez gives him a few men to command. Maybe I could mix it up- a few Red Wings, some Black and White Mages (since there are BMs and WMs in Barons training rooms) and monsters. When the time comes I'll definitely think about it and try to stay as true to FF IV as possible. Imagine now actually fighting DK Cecil one on one at Fabul for example, kidnapping Rosa, bombing and attacking Damcyan, all by Kain's hand. I think it should work out nicely.

[MountainDew~]

I did forget about the Red Wings attacking the Dwarves, yeah, but I didn't really think Edward's Castle was that big of a deal. I guess ya never really see their defenses. They hardly have Fabul's famous monk army though, and you never hear about any outstanding soldiers from Damcyan, so I always assumed they were lax on military advancements and training. I also thought it was just monsters under command of Golbez that attacked Fabul, so good lookin out on that one.

Also, straight from the FFWiki, since I have no idea who took over either... "As a replacement, the king invites Golbez to take Cecil's place as the Red Wings commander with Kain Highwind as his second-in-command and monsters as the new crew. "
Also, looking at this, it is assumed that the Red Wings are disbanded after the events underground, so I guess that explains a lot about what happened to them through the later half of the game.

I think a little cameo by Biggs and Wedge as soldiers of the Red Wings would be fitting, especially with their role in TAY.I think Kain's POV would be a pretty neat way to go about this whole thing.

[MiKeMiTchi]

Kain is already the commander of Barons Dragoons, so it would be weird if he suddenly ordered the Red Wings around.
When you are doing a story like this, you will need to get everything right for what actually happens to Kain for this part, for the FF4 fans. Just have a think about that

This is why I would recommend creating your own story.

[Jon]

Yeah so I'll have Golbez as the new commander, and Kain as his right hand man and second-in-command. Since Golbez's main concern are the Crytals, Kain is obviously be doing way more things than him. Biggs and Wedge will definitely be in the game. I pretty much already made them

@Twin and Mike: I don't know what you guys are talking about, I did kinda guess at Kain taking command of the Red Wings, and technically I wasn't totally correct, but he, if you guys remember the game does get around flying in the airships. And he is there in the whole Fabul battle, he fights DK Cecil one-on-one and crushes him. So its not too hard to imagine he was there when Damcyan gets attacked and Anna gets shot with arrows, etc. But thanks for the feedback and the interest, I certainly don't want to disappoint any FF IV fans

[Twinees]

I'm pretty sure Mike only meant the part with making sure everything is exactly how it happens in FFIV. My only concern was you getting side tracked with inventing your own version of what happened and what was said that actually happened in the games.

You pretty much summed up my point when you used the word, imagine here:

So its not too hard to imagine he was there when Damcyan gets attacked and Anna gets shot with arrows, etc.

If Kain isn't mentioned being there, you'd be better off assuming that he was still being brought back to Baron or being brainwashed at this point. You should be googling stuff to find out what actually happened here rather than assuming it all, that was my point.

[Jon]

Yeah you're right, and better than google is Final Fantasy wikia. Also I redid one pose of Kain and a few more, you can see it in the Spriting Contest.

Edit: Red Wings pretty much done:

spoiler

Generic Red Wing Male & portrait

Generic Red Wing Female & portrait

Biggs portrait (since Biggs and Wedge have same sprite as generic male)

Wedge portrait

Easy to do since they are just recolored sprites and portraits, but still look nice imho. Notice that only the clothes and hat were recolored on the sprites, the armor I left the same as palette one since I like the metally colors better than the bronze looking armors.

Edit2: I'd like your opinion on which script for FF IV I should use. Most of us I am guessing are used to the NA FF II for SNES script, which to me seems like Nintendo forcefully made more "kiddy-friendly", nobody swears in that version ever! Wtf!! I would personally like to use the most mature version, which was made for the PSX, FF Chronicles. (It came with Chrono Trigger!) This one made Edge more mature especially, I think he even calls Rydia a bitch at some point lol. Anyways, maybe I'm just crazy, I can use other scripts, so please let me know which one is your favorite and why. Thanks!

Here's the opening for FF IV on the PSX, the quality is horrible but readable:

spoiler

Lol at Cid at around 7:30ish and these quotes are more memorable.
Kain: "Ready for some real combat?"
Cecil: "Always."

Enough said. Reminds me a little bit of how they talk in FF VII. Opinions?

[MountainDew~]

I've never played any FFIV version except the SNES easy-type, as well as a little bit of GBA, (Up until the CPU battle); but, between the two, GBA.

I like the sprite, and honestly I can't say if it's "good" or "bad" as far as quality goes; I've never had the eye or talent for that sort of thing. You could've told me it was originally an alien as the previous sprite and I wouldn't have called you a liar. I prefer the actual shining-metal look to the yellowish that it used to be (just looked up the original sprite to reference), nice job.

[Jon]

I like the sprite, and honestly I can't say if it's "good" or "bad" as far as quality goes; I've never had the eye or talent for that sort of thing. You could've told me it was originally an alien as the previous sprite and I wouldn't have called you a liar. I prefer the actual shining-metal look to the yellowish that it used to be (just looked up the original sprite to reference), nice job.

Hahaha, that just made my day!

I've been playing FF IV Advance as well, this one is the only one with the two bonus dungeons, adding more content. The Lunar Trials of the heroes really shows each character what they fear, and how to overcome it, which doesn't really help me with Red Wings but is nice for added story because the characters are a bit more developed. Same thing goes for the PSX version, its like the mature version and therefore a bit more developed. Plus I like swearing in video games, no kiddy hand-holding bs please.

Edit: Changed once again to the nameless Red Wing protagonist. I even decided to make a choice (well I will) so the player can choose at the beginning to be male or female (by releasing 2 patches). I think I might need to make two custom portraits for the RW hero/heroine, however as pretty much everyone on here knows, I suck majorly at portraits. Still better first to try my own. For now I'll just use a generic male/female Squire portrait, so the generic male / female Red Wing sprite as a filler.

[Jon]

Double post, whatever. Here is another possibility to start off the mod, bring Ramza into FF IV:

spoiler

If not, this could be used as kinda like a sequel to FFT, the next events after Ramza and Alma escape. Yeah, crits and feedback? Sorry that its like 13 minutes, you can skip the cemetery since you guys know it. Skip to 2:03ish.

[MountainDew~]

Sorry, I shipped out my videocard, haven't had a computer to do anything with.  I wouldn't go for a sequel to FFT. Too many things can go wrong, people will disagree with how personalities are, portrayal of character, and even your own sequence of events. However, it's your mod, so who cares about what other people think, right?

Very cool video though. Good job on it.

[Jon]

Thanks! Actually I have been working on not a sequel, but rather what happens to Cloud, I dunno how I started that but mainly I was trying to work with the custom poses (like Cloud grabbing his head in pain / Ramza doing jumping jacks when Mustadio gets KOed by Worker 8, etc).