Mercenaries: Unique Synergy Skillsets for Rad/Ramza!

[LastingDawn]

Synergy Skills

This set up is All thanks to Philsov with a bit of help from Mav! Each skillset is meant to work well with one another as well as compensating for what is missing in another. I think Philsov and Mav have done a great job splitting these! But let me know your thoughts on this arrangement as well.


Thanks goes to Philsov and Mav (and many others whose names I can't recall for the original skill ideas)for these wonderful skills!

Monk - Master of Internal Energy, also the starting point for all physical-ish jobs.  If you wanna know the basics, you start with yourself.  

Iconic skills:
Searing Salvation - clears the soul of impurities with holy fire.  Deals 15% HP damage, able to target self and allies.  (Self-only cleanse is worthless for most of the big ones, we need function here)
Chakra - melee-range, PA-based spirit exhertion damage!
(Secret Skill) - I don't think Demi Fist is fitting for the class, but we'll go back to these later.

Ramza:
Golden Hand - 5 range linear, instant, no MP - cancels Charging and Performing
Ogre Run - 2 range linear, instant, no MP - Earth ele damage + haste cancel proc.
Wave Fist - 2 range, single target.  Like the old one, only shorter range.
Pressure Point - PA*X (or MA*X?) damage with a 25% chance to Don't Act target.  1 range, 1-3CTR.
Meditate - Self-only regen, 100%.
Grid - Self only defend + protect

Rad:
Mage Bane Fist - melee range, small charge time, no MP - 25% MP damage
Turning Gust - self-AoE, instant, no MP.  - no ele damage + Float/Regen/Faith cancel proc.
Consuming Fist - PA-based damage with recoil.  2 range, 1 AoE.
Radiant Claw - 4 range, single target, CT, MP - artillery shot
Tranquility - Enemy-only.  Dispells all status effects on the user.  PA+X% success rate.
Brace - Self only defend + shell

~

Scryer - Supa-chemists!  Fine for now.  I probably want to change a rune or two but that's another step.  

~

Invoker - The black mage-like-class.  Features MA-but-not Fa-based damage with moderate status infliction in some cases.  Hosts the various elements.  I went with a dark/light split on Ramza + Rad.  Seems fitting, ability wise, though you may want to shuffle for thematics.

Iconics:
Explosion - MA * 5 (MA + 30%) Range 4, Effect Area 2, Vertical 2, MP 2 - The Invoker's most destructive spell, as well as the most inaccurate, from a distance the Invoker let's fly a large explosion
Metal (I'm really at a lost for this slot...) - MA * 2 (MA+90%), range 4, AoE 0, MP 1 - Invoker's most basic spell, manipulates the opponents equipment to deal them harm.
(Secret Skill - Blood Sin)

Ramza:
Dark chant - MA * 2 (MA + 65%) Range 2, Effect Area 0, Vertical 5, MP 2, chance to Inflict charm,
Poison  - Engulf - MA * 4 (MA + 60%) Range 2, Effect Area 1, Vertical 4, MP 2, Inflict Poison
Ice - Freeze - MA * 3 (MA + 40%) Range 4, Effect Area 1, Vertical 1, MP 2, Inflict Slow
Earth  - Tremor - MA * 3 (MA + 50%) Range 0, Effect Area 2, Vertical 0, MP 2
Poison + Earth = Rot - MA * 5 (MA + 45%), range 2, Effect Area 1, vertical 0, MP3.  Chance to inflict Undead or Death Sentence
Dark + Ice = White Death - MA * 4 (MA + 50%), range 3, Effect Area 2, Vert 2, MP3.  Inflicts Sleep.

Rad:
Light - Spirit Surge - MA * 5 (MA + 45%) Range 5, Effect Area 0, Vertical 3, MP 2, Inflict Confusion
Lit  - Shock - MA * 2 (MA + 70)%) Range 3, Effect Area 0, Vertical 10, MP 2, Inflict Stop or Don't Act or Don't Move
Fire - Burn - MA * 6 (MA + 50%) Range 3, Effect Area 1, Vertical 3, MP 2, Chance to inflict Haste
Wind - Gale - Dmg_Random(1...4)* MA (For now PA...) Range 4, Effect Area 4, Vertical 2, (linear attack), MP 2
Fire + Wind = Flash Fire.  MA * 4 (MA + 50%), range 4 linear, vert 2.  No status.
Lit + Light = Smite - MA * 6 (MA + 90%), Range 4, Effect Area 0.  Chance to inflict Dead.  

~

Cantor - Voice of Heaven.  Ramza and Rad given a good split on abilities, then gain a Cure-like spell each (Ramza with healing voice got an AoE, Rad got the opposite).  And I know you're going more for the vocal angle here, and I went more with the priesty angle, so feel free to change the names.  I like the abilities themselves though, nevermind the awesome bias.

Iconics:
Hymn of Life = Range self, AoE 1.  Revives!
Throe of Rebirth = single target, light CT, light MP.  Inflicts Reraise but harms unit for 25%.  Ally/self only.
(Mighty Prayer)

Ramza:
Healing Voice - 40% healing to a nearby target, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Tumultuous Bellow - Range 0, AoE 1.  Success = 50% + MA;  Inflicts Berserk around the caster
Lethargic Psalm - Heals 65%, inflicts sleep and slow.  Very high success rate, ally only.
Anoint - Heals CFa * TFA * MA * 20;  range 4, AoE 1, moderate CT and MP.
Repent - Strips target of Innocent or Shell status, dealing 20% HP damage in the process.  
Sonnet to Faram - self-only, moderate CT, MP.  Success = ((CFa/100)^2) * (160+MA)) -- protect/shell/regen/faith

Rad:
Healing Breath - 20% healing for a large area, triggering prayer status.  Instant.
Insane Chant - Range 2, AoE 0.  Success = 40% + MA.  Light PA-based damage plus confusion infliction
Aria of Peace - Dispels Berserk and heals target for 25%.  Success = PA+125%.  
Bless - Heals CFa * TFa * MA * 25; range 4, AoE 0.  moderate CT and MP.
Penance - Inflicts Addle.  Success = MA + 60%, Range 2, AoE 0, instant, no MP.
Coronach to Lucavi - Formula (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 6) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm 6 (wtf?); Single Enemy - Berserk/Blind/Poison/Innocent (All)

~

Knights - got kicked out of both Holy and Dark knight school, kinda waffling around with both and willing to sacrifice their own well being to get the job done.

Iconics
Somber Drive - melee range, PA based.  Nasty damage with nasty recoil.
Battle Cry - Because Haste infliction ought to be shared <3
(Sanct Saber) -

Ramza
Abraxas - Good range (5?  Greater than xbow, imo), single target, 30% recoil, 15 MP.  PA-based damage.
Ironclad - self/ally only - inflicts protect, regen, and slow.  Moderate MP, instant.
Chaste Slice - low faith enemies suffer~.  14 MP, instant, weapon range.  MA-based???
Iai Strike - Moderate MP Cost, can only be used with certain weapon types. 50% Chance to -20 Br.
Final Sacrifice - Must be critical Sacrifice the last bit of your life force for a high damage sword strike.
Cimmerian Edge - A Dark Elemental Sword Strike

Rad
Nix = 50% chance to transform dead unit into a crystal - 30 MP, weapon range, small CT.
Transfusion = Range 0, AoE 1.  Heals surrounding units for 40% HP at the expense of 20% on the self.
Swiftness - 15 MP.  Unevadeable weapon strike (use ARH!  no guns).
Fanatic's Folly - Higher damage to Higher faith units.
Sacred Symbol - Holy Elemental Sword strike.
???

Travelers - Rhodes Scholar?  More like rogue scholar!  lololololololol.  Did a decent split, then mirrored up Pick Up Speed and gave them both cool little duo tricks.  Ramza gained Ghost Strike as Rad has the thing from Monk.

Iconics:
Steal Heart - (MA + 50%) Range 3, Single Target, Charm, CT 3, MP 25
Blow Leaves Dmg F_(MA * 5) 3 Range, 3 Area, 3 Vertical - MP 10
(?????) - (MA + 5%) Range 4, Area 3, Vertical 3, CT 5, MP 60 - Has a small chance to turn your foes into Treasures.

Rad:
Rust Helm - (PA + WP + 60%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 10
Rust Weapon - (PA + WP + 30) Range 3, Single Target, MP 18
Hide Away MA + 70% 3 Range, 3 Vertical, Single Target, CT 4 MP 10
Steal Exp -
Drop Down Speed - (Status 100%) 3 range, Target enemy, MP 16. With a quick incantation they apply slow to the foe.
Saved Time - Success = PA + 90%.  Cancels an ally's haste in order to heal them for ?50%?.

Ramza:
Rust Armor - (PA + WP + 40%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 12
Rust Shield - (PA + WP + 55%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 5
Ghost Strike - Dmg_MP * 5, Melee range, Single Range, MP 10
Steal Gil - CastLvl_SP 100% Hit - Field Wide, CT 2, MP 5
Pick Up Speed - (Status 100%) Target Self, MP 16, With a quick incantation they apply Haste to themselves.
Steal Time - Success = MA + 65% - Attempts to deal 50% damage to an already Slowed opponent.

~

Gambler - My life is a chip in your pile.  Ante up!

Iconics:
Darts -  Formula: 1F (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 0) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm - X Variable:10 - Y Variable: 0 - Range: 4 - Effect Area: 0 - Vertical: 1 - - CT: 2 - MP: 15
Jackpot - 50/50 chance to hurt or heal targets in range.  How is this getting rigged up?
(Shady Deal) - Steal Acc

Ramza:
Dice Off - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals light-moderate non-elemental magical damage 1-6 times randomly between the gambler and his target
Straight - Deals one of 5 status effects at 50% -- (Blind/Poison/Don't Move/Addle/Berserk)
Ace of Spades - Deals high damage, Low chance to cause instant death.
Double Down - Self + AoE 1.  ~75% chance to work with 50/50 Reraise/Don't Move
Roulette - Haste or Slow to everything in sight
Polarize - Innocent or Faith everything in sight

Rad:
Coin Toss - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals moderate-heavy non-elemental magical damage to either the Gambler or his target (only hits once, so 50-50 odds)
Three of a Kind - 3 range linear - PA-based damage with a chance to inflict ?????
Tantalize - MA+60% chance to inflict Stop. (we need less charm and confusion imo)
Drink Off - Self + AoE1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Sleep/Berserk
Moss Shroom - Poison or Regen to everything in sight
Dazzle - Blind or Protect to everything in sight (Defend and Blind might be more fitting, but def is too temp for blind)

~

Reliquian - Much like the Scryer, this chap is capped on available, so little will be added/split.  Tweaking may be needed, but later!

~

Blue Mage - Needs no description! (In the Interim of being changed)

Iconics
Choco Cure - Self AoE Curing
Drain Touch - MP damage and MP restoration all in one!
(Hurricane) - I think self-destruct is imba, but secret skills will be looked at after the status effect bit.  

Ramza
Eye gouge
Ice Breath
Triple Thunder
Spark
Calm Spirit
Not cat kick - ???

Rad
Mind Blast
Blaster
Blow Fire
Triple Attack
Wind Soul
Circle

~

Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.

Archers - Bow-weilders with a hint of magic!  And, yes, this one is a bit hard without overlapping.  They both gained a shot with a 25% proc of an invoker spell -- I chose one from each of their books but maybe a cross-swap would be better?  idk.  Invoker spell choice was the one most likely to connect, because procs that ultimately fail are lame.  Both also gained an AoE spell, and the cover fire idea is all skip sandwich iirc.  Also stepped on monks' toes a bit, and then straight stole from Dragoon but eh.

Iconics:
Beso Toxico - PW*WP with 100% chance to poison target.  Weapon range, MP 10.
Dominate Demon - Randomly inflicts Slow, Stop, DA, or DM onto a monster.  3 CTR, 12 MP.  100%.
(Lifeforce Shot) - Self-destruct formula, 8 range linear 8 vert, 30 MP, 100% Confusion

Ramza:
Divine Bolt - Sp + 50% chance to petrify undead.  Given to Ramza because he needs more light-based stuff.
Take Aim = PA*WP (maybe normal weapon strike?  I don't know if the goal is to inflict more than normal damage or just do unavoidable), 100% accuracy.  Given to Ramza since Rad has the thing from Knight.
Mist Disperse - MP damage, 20%+MA; 100%
Volley - moderate MP cost.  Bow/xbow only?  4 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Weapon Strike damage into the area.  
Dark Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with a 25% chance to cast Dark Chant on the target.
X - Entice Demon - 100% Monster charm. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

Rad:
Black Out Bolt - 100% Blind, but deals no damage.  2 MP.
Cupid's Arrow - Because Rad is a charming mofo.  MA+60%, weapon range, 3 CTR, 18 MP.
Cover Fire - 3 range, 1 AoE, 2 vert.  Enduring (perpetuating?  performing? whatever) at.... 6 CTR intervals.  Uses truth formula to fire up to 3 arrows into the affected area every cycle.  
Lit Shot - Weapon range, moderate-low MP cost.  Weapon Strike with 25% chance to cast Shock on the target
Stone Arrow - 100% chance to cancel charging and performing
X - Soothe Demon - 100% Monster Sleep. (Is there a monster-only formula that isn't 100%?) - higher MP/CTR than dominate

~

Inquistor - EXPECT IT.  Stole a bit from Meliadoul.  When it doubt, give it a swordskill!Drawing a blank on these skills... maybe I'll thumb through the list from Ivalice Arena now that it's rather kaput.

Iconics:
Mirror Stance - self-only Reflect infliction at 100%.
Head Cracker - PA+65% chance to inflict Addle.  (damage + 100% seemed too good, and damage + 25% seemed to weak, so... goodbye damage)
(Blissful Indulgence) - MP restoration to ally?

Ramza:
Tear Away - 100% removal of magical benefits from target.  3 range, light MP cost, instant.  (Rad has the other dispel in monk)
?Shield Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets shield.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
???
Steady Feet - Range 0, AoE 1 vert 3;  100% cancel Stop and Don't Act

Rad:
Mana Strip - removes X% (30%?) mana from user.  This makes Rad/Ramza 2 and 2 for mana burn.
?Accessory Strip? - PA*WP with a 100% chance to break the targets accessory.  Very high MP cost.
???
???
God's Orb - Tar_F * MA * X damage.  Range 4, single target.  Non elemental.
Stable Feet - Range 0, AoE 2 vert 3; 100% cancel Slow and Don't Move

~

Trancer - We need to see what formulas do and do not work with geomancy, and more importantly concrete out the rest of the classes before solidifying this.

~

Dragoon - Really there's several iconics I wish I could put up, but alas.  This'll be fun to divvy....

Iconics
Jump - Duh.  SP*WP damage.  5 range, infinite vert imo.  
Dragon's Cry - 2 range, 2 vert.  Success = PA+90%.  Revives target with 1% HP.  (to review, Fairy rezzes with 50% HP at 4 range and charge time, and cantor 20% with 1 range... this might work?)
(Dragon Lord) - Self-only Float, Reraise, Berserk, Innocent, Reflect, Protect, Shell

Ramza:
Wisdom's Downfall - TarCurMP dmg, 18 MP.  
Bahamut Breath - 3 range linear, MA*10 damage, 30 MP.  Possibly elemental.
Dragon Gambut - Weapon damage + 50% chance to use Vital Sense.
Dragon's Roar - 100% Slow, Self AoE 2 vert 3 MP 32.  Slooooow.
????
Highwind - PA*(high), 4 range. single target.  Deals physical damage and knocks enemy back.  Only useable while under Float status.

Rad:
Soul Sphere - PA*WP MP drain strike.  MP 45.
Dirt Breath- 2 range 1 AoE 2 vert 30 MP MA*10 damage.Earth Elemental.
Mimic Tiamat - 1 range, 3-way attack.  
Dragon Sword - Weapon damage with 50% chance to cast Ghost Strike on your foe.
Dragon's Wings - Fa's * (MA + 180) chance to inflict Float.  Light MP cost, very low CTR.  3 range, 2 AoE.
Bangaa Cry - Will be decided later.

~

Warder - I knew I missed one of em~

Iconics:
Fortify - Range 0 AoE 1 vert 3.  100% Protect
Muster - PA+120%, range 1 + self.  Esuna effect.  Moralizes himself or allies, letting them shake off negative status.
(unknown)

Ramza:
Grapple - CT00 with perservere!
Crumble - Cancels Protect, Shell, Reflect, or Defend and deals 33% damage
Daze - 1 range, 100% Blind.  No damage (same as Rad's Archer's Blackout)
Knockout - 1 range.  Fa*(MA + 160%) success rate; sleep infliction.
X - Swordslap - SUPER-light damage (MA*1-ish).  1 range, useful for canceling charm, confusion, and sleep without harming your ally.
????

Rad:
Relieve - 1 range; cancels defending or sleep, healing target for 33%.  Max success rate.
Kick - 1 range, PA-based damage with target knockback
Unknown - Previously Ramza-only status infliction at decent success rate
Snuff - 1 range; cancels sleep, damaging target for 100%.  Moderate success rate.
Steadfast - self-only.  Heals for 10% every 6 ticks until canceled/out of MP.  Preferably also inflicts defend but can a formula do both?
???

Arbalist - A crossbow using heavy damage user that somehow needs to be distinct from Archer and hopefully have minimal overlapping skills.  Buh.

Iconics
Elemental Shot - strong charged ability with various elements attached to it.  
Riskbreaker - Weapon damage with a proc of itself (which can proc itself, which can proc itself, etc)
(?????)

Ramza
??? - 6 range 0 vert tol linear attack dealing PA-based damage
Autocrossbow - Uses old repeating fist formula to pelt the enemy with a deluge of bolts, 3 range single target
Execute - Uses Death formula to deal 21% dark damage to critical targets.  Weapon range, single target.  
Desperation - self only, critical-only.  Adds haste and innocent at 100%
????
????

Rad
??? - 4 range 0 vert tol 3-way attack dealing PA-based damage
Point Blank - 1 range 0 vert tol - PA+WP+X attack.  High damage.
?Salted Wound? - Damage dealt = damage taken thus far (aka climhazzard) (trumps Execute, I know;  but this job is off the Red Mage radar and needs a perk imo)
Second Wind - self-only, critical-only.  Adds Berserk and Regen at 100%.
????
????

You're probably scratching your head asking "...what?"

Well let me explain. Zodiac created something called the Ability Requirement Hack a while back and it is quite a Marvelous tool! It has single-handedly rescued the Hessian and Red Mage classes! It gets around that accursed skillset bug in a myriad of ways.

To give you a scope of this things potential...

You can now make Any skill require Any sort of equipment, from a Crossbow to Ribbons! You no longer are restricted by "Only Sword, Only Materia Blade" The tool can also set up "synergy skills" that require two specific skillsets to be there, but for the most part we won't be using all of that (there will be exceptions, mind you)

What the greatest part of this tool is for us is the Gender specification for skills. For those who have been with Mercenaries a long time know that Rad is labeled Male and Ramza labeled Female (only on a mechanics side of things, of course). This is done so each could have their own special class at the end of their job lines. Well... thanks to the ARH this arrangement becomes 100x more meaningful!

Now Rad and Ramza will have Completely different Skillsets from one another! (Despite still having the majority of the same jobs) but I will need your help. I will need anywhere from 5-16 new abilities for these classes (as because there skillsets are split, that means that they can have 8 maximum, minimum I would say would be... 5 each.).

Let me show you an example...

Invoker

Ramza - Burn
Ramza - Spirit Surge
Ramza - Tremor
Ramza - Shock
Ramza - Blood Sin (Gran Grimoire)

Rad - Engulf
Rad - Dark Chant
Rad - Gale
Rad - Freeze
Rad - Explosion (Clear Thought)

(As you can also see from this example, that specific items can be required to use skills)





 I will be resurrecting each job thread (everyone that will be using this, anyhow), feel free to come up with your own themes for the Two skillsets, just keep in mind the purpose of the classes. Also don't fear of just giving a few skill ideas, we need as Much help as we can with this.

As always, thank you for all the help you can give.

EDIT: I will be away this weekend, but I'll try to respond to what I can while away.

[jimmyjw88]

Holyshit...This is great news!!
Different skills but same job. Amazing!!
Well, I wish I could be more help on this rather than just sprite though -.-
Anyway, really looking forward to this!!

[Patri]

LD, do you or any of the people collaborating with you on this project have any ideas about exactly how you'd like to separate Rad and Ramza?

By that I mean do you want one to be more of the attacker and one more support, one more physical one more magical? I guess anything like that would really make it a lot easier to think up skills specific to each one. I guess in a game such as FFT where you can pretty much make any character fill any role, it might be hard to impose restrictions like that.

Take for instance the Invoker example. What if you, for example, made one skill set more focused on dealing negative statuses, and the other more on damage and buffs?

Let's take Burn. "Chance to inflict Haste- The most powerful of the Invoker's spellbook, yet also one of the most inaccurate. It's power is augmented in it's spread damage."

What if you made Ramza's version of Burn one that would deal slight damage to allies, but also be able to inflict haste. Rad's version could do spread damage and have a change to inflict oil, or another negative effect (I was going to say burnt status, but this isn't Pokemon   ).

It's a simple idea (and possibly a bad one) but it's pretty much how I would view different skill sets for the same job.

[LastingDawn]

That's a bit too similar. Though it does have merit on its own. Mainly themes should be *loose* if any overarching theme is to be present in the first. Philsov did say that perhaps they should have *partially* shared skillsets, though that's only the case if we can't think of enough skills for any given class.

[GeneralStrife]

wait project is dead no longer? good to hear

[philsov]

*opens up job thread*

Scryer: capped by item subset of items, not much to mess with there.  Suggest making Fury and Faith runes unique to Ramza and Rad, though.

Monk:
....How does the game treat 0 WP weaponry?  Is it considered barefisted and thus "WP" becomes [PA * Br/100]?  If so, a "Charge Up" using PA*WP + X formula with a decent CT should fit in nicely with the skillset.  
Heal Aura(?) - replenishes ally's MP by 25%.  Cannot be used on self.
Tranquility - Enemy is cleansed of all status, positive and negative
Consumption - Work formula attack, melee-range with moderate knockback damage.  

Invoker:  What other elemental types are there?  There's water, but past that you're in the realm of cross-elementals, which might work under this scheme.  Let's see... right now you've got fire, ice, lit, earth, wind, poison, light, dark, and blood (secret)....

Poison + earth - Rot - MA*2, self AoE of 1 (caster immune) - chance to inflict undead, poison, or death sentence
Fire + Wind - Flash Fire MA*4, Linear attack of 4.  No status, above average success rate.
Ice + Lit - Snowstorm - MA*4, range 4, AoE 2 - chance to inflict stop.  moderate to high MP cost.
Light + Dark - Inner Confict - MA*8, single target.  High damage, but no status and no aoe.  

(theres several ways to combine the elements, mind, but I like this scheme)

[LastingDawn]

*opens up job thread*

Scryer: capped by item subset of items, not much to mess with there.  Suggest making Fury and Faith runes unique to Ramza and Rad, though.

Hmm, yes that seems fitting. Good idea.

Monk:
....How does the game treat 0 WP weaponry?  Is it considered barefisted and thus "WP" becomes [PA * Br/100]?  If so, a "Charge Up" using PA*WP + X formula with a decent CT should fit in nicely with the skillset.  
Heal Aura(?) - replenishes ally's MP by 25%.  Cannot be used on self.[
Tranquility - Enemy is cleansed of all status, positive and negative
Consumption - Work formula attack, melee-range with moderate knockback damage.  

Hmm... those are great ideas! That's a pretty good idea! Not so fond on MP restoring abilities... I may try to put in some sort of universal MP system (Think the Mist from FFTA). If I can manage to make MP Default to 0... so I'm not too fond of MP restoring abilities on what is essentially a semi-physical class. All the rest look pretty good! Unfortunate Knockback can't be used on any slot, other than Tackle, if I recall right... (Will still need to change that one Bullet of mine)

Invoker:  What other elemental types are there?  There's water, but past that you're in the realm of cross-elementals, which might work under this scheme.  Let's see... right now you've got fire, ice, lit, earth, wind, poison, light, dark, and blood (secret)....

Poison + earth - Rot - MA*2, self AoE of 1 (caster immune) - chance to inflict undead, poison, or death sentence
Fire + Wind - Flash Fire MA*4, Linear attack of 4.  No status, above average success rate.
Ice + Lit - Snowstorm - MA*4, range 4, AoE 2 - chance to inflict stop.  moderate to high MP cost.
Light + Dark - Inner Confict - MA*8, single target.  High damage, but no status and no aoe.  

(theres several ways to combine the elements, mind, but I like this scheme)

[/quote][/quote]

Dual Elementals is the primary theme of Arbalist (or more like... quadruple element). Though as skills that concept works. Where Rad and Ramza will each have control of the four elements. Great ideas! I'll make sure to put them to use, also "MP Cost" with the Invoker,  is something special, as I'm sure you'll recall? They have only 11 MP during the course of the game, because "Their body betrays the mist" and the only way they can get more MP is through the "Grimoires" (which is the only armor they can equip), which gives them 10 MP.

[philsov]

knockback as in reciprical damage a la work formula

[LastingDawn]

knockback as in reciprical damage a la work formula

Oh heh. Misunderstood the meaning, I thought you meant knockback as in "1 Square hit back", I forget what I ordinarily call that...

[FFMaster]

I got confused as well. Normally, the term for the caster taking damage would be damage recoil wouldn't it?

[LastingDawn]

Yes, that's ordinarily the correct term, thanks for jogging my memory FFMaster.

[ffta707]

This sounds great. I always say self damaging, but I guess the correct term is damage recoil.

[philsov]

OK, attached in this post is a spreadsheet of all jobs so far.  Two sheets;  the first is the overall scheme so far in terms of what class is doing what, role-wise.  the second is just for status on what's getting inflicted by whom and overall numbers.  To explain the status sheet, D/P and A/R are abbrevations; D/P is for direct/proc, as in the ability is a Direct with pure status (or damage + 100% status) -- like Roulette versus proc with a chance to inflict status on top of usually damage, like Darts.  A/R is abbrevation is all or random, where either all the statii listed are inflicted/cured or just one of them on the list.  I understand some of the input may be wrong, as some of the skills posted are rough ideas at best, or at least hastily input which left me wondering about a finer point or two, where I just took an educated guess.

As a preface, I am very much of a role-ist.  That is, I like skillsets with specific goals in mind.  I don't like all classes being able to deal damage, cure, inflict status, dispel all at the same time.  I understand that LD is very, very different in terms of character themes... so I'm working a bit backwards here, but we can make names fit the function rather than the opposite.

To start things off:  
- There is currently 1 resurrection ability.  One.  Healing moves aren't that far behind.  
- There are 2 methods of MP healing, with ~5 methods of MP damage
- There should be more faith-based magic damage.  pewpew.  
- Statuses, as a whole... need to be reviewed, imo.  For starters the only way to cleanse half of the negative statii are Monk's Searing Salvation or Hessain's Restore.  So there need to be more cleansers, if only for a single status or two.
- Most of the status inflicted is done directly, %based or not, and not as a 25% attached proc on top of damage
- Looking back at all the various status inflictions and curing, I do think I like this scheme, if it were carried through fully.  Right now its very much in the crossroads with some classes being able to dish out a large number of status (Archers, e.g.) and many classes with one or two status inflictions.  This really ought to be cleaned up, somehow.  I'm working on it but I wanted to post up the prelim spreadsheet for all to see first.  My suggestion post is going to be a rather lengthy one, since it'll be all big-picturey and probably involve swapping around some of the current skills.  Completely offhand I'd like to see Knight with a wish-like ability (recoil seems to be a common theme with them) and Red Mage should be able to inflict Frog and Undead somewhere along the line because, well, no one else does atm.

Regarding trancers, I suppose that's 100% shared between Rad and Ramza, huh?

This spreadsheet will also serve as a function-based approach to these new skills, so both Rad and Ramza keep about the same level of healing/status/damage capability for each respective class.  Unless you'd like some sort of "evil twin" motiff....

[LastingDawn]

This is extraordinarily comprehensive! Let me pore over it for a while as I formulate a response.

Thank you for these statistics, I never would have guessed this otherwise.

[LastingDawn]

Hmm, Darts can't cast Dead... I don't think?

If they did that would be Way too Overpowered.

Also I think you may have screwed one thing up (or I did?) Ace of Spades is the one with the 25% chance of Death, Jackpot doesn't cause Death. Just a lot of damage.

JackPot either does Drawout based Weapon damage, or it uses Lagomorph, which... can be troublesome. (Lagomorph uses M. Barrier and Heals your foes by a Massive amount basically on your foes. The only advantage is that it is reflectable, so if you're smart about it you can hit a Lagomorph back onto your allies if you're good at things like that)

Bent Pocket Watch only has Darkness cast upon it.  It doesn't also use Death or Death Sentence.

- There is currently 1 resurrection ability. One. Healing moves aren't that far behind.

Alright, I have to say this is a grand start to seeing what really needs changed. Now, PX was saying how one revival skill might not be bad, and I was wondering if you could join us on IRC to have this discussion? I think there's value in both sides of that argument.

- There are 2 methods of MP healing, with ~5 methods of MP damage

I was very against MP recovery, because our formulas for them are... not that great. I was thinking of just giving every unit innate Move MP Up and somehow hack in a 0 MP start (like FFTA). Thus balancing MP a fair amount.

- There should be more faith-based magic damage. pewpew.

I fully agree. I noticed this early on as well and was something I always meant to address, I think with your aid we can do such. Just a note though that the Invoker's don't have Faith in their magics for a reason, the rest though... it all depends on what the specifics are.

- Statuses, as a whole... need to be reviewed, imo. For starters the only way to cleanse half of the negative statii are Monk's Searing Salvation or Hessain's Restore. So there need to be more cleansers, if only for a single status or two.

Yes, that is a True problem. As for the Hessian's skills... none of them are final and probably shouldn't be included in any talks yet.

This is an area of great concern though.

Most of the status inflicted is done directly, %based or not, and not as a 25% attached proc on top of damage

Hmm... I don't quite understand what you mean here. Could you clarify that for me?

Looking back at all the various status inflictions and curing, I do think I like this scheme, if it were carried through fully. Right now its very much in the crossroads with some classes being able to dish out a large number of status (Archers, e.g.) and many classes with one or two status inflictions. This really ought to be cleaned up, somehow. I'm working on it but I wanted to post up the prelim spreadsheet for all to see first. My suggestion post is going to be a rather lengthy one, since it'll be all big-picturey and probably involve swapping around some of the current skills. Completely offhand I'd like to see Knight with a wish-like ability (recoil seems to be a common theme with them) and Red Mage should be able to inflict Frog and Undead somewhere along the line because, well, no one else does atm.

Hmm... yes I do agree it should be cleaned up, which is why I cannot wait to see your suggestions for it! It just seems a bit much to figure out alone so I'm very glad I have your assistance on this.

Knights with a Wish like ability... it would fit the "Martyr" theme of the Light side of the Knight class I want to show. I'll probably change Delita/Ramza/Alma's Wish to be more impactful than this one then.

I do agree that Red Mage should get Frog and Undead. It would make them even more unique in such. (Only people that currently have such are bosses and the like)

I cannot wait for your next big post! Thanks for bouncing these ideas around.

[philsov]

ok, I joined the chat a little late and missed a powwow with PX, but in general:

Revival is a huge thing.  In vanilla there were 3 different skillsets with it and 1.3 offerred 5 different skillsets.  This was because the need for revival was so prevalent that it allowed for some variety.  Sure, a group of 5x Specials with Item secondary worked, but it was boring as hell.  I am so much more a fan of having someone with white magic and someone with punch art and someone with summon magic etcetcetc because I needed to have the revival but I also liked everything else the skillset offered.  That said, I am however interested in breaking up the revivers from the cleansers -- for as monks had revive, they also had stigma magic.  Esuna was friends with raise and remedy lurved phoenix down.  So now the defensive-ish skillsets will be less catch-all, and provide some opportunity cost.  The curers still need to be somewhere in the mix, too, but I'd rather not see all three in a single skillset.  

And then let's not forget pacing... curing, dispelling, and revival should all be available early on, meaning:  Knight, Traveler, Monk, Scryer, Cantor, and Invoker.  But, we're somewhat set there already.  Monk offers dispelling, Scryer's got some curing, and cantor has revival plus curing.  Additionally Blue Mage offers curing (as does Knight, I'll split Rad/Ramza to each have one of these) while Esperblade will rock all 3, although they'll be split into two subgroups.  So... from here I suggest Warder gets a major dispel, and Dragoon a revival skill.  This gives us:

3 revivers (Cantor, Dragoon, Esper)
3 major dispellers (Monk, Warder, Esper)
4 curers (Scryer, Knight/BM, Cantor, Esper)

Which covers all the defensive bases, I think.

Regarding the to-be split skillsets, taking a page from Raven... we're at 338-ish editable skillslots.  If you want 15 classes with 16 skills a piece (BM is a freebie

[LastingDawn]

ok, I joined the chat a little late and missed a powwow with PX, but in general:

Revival is a huge thing.  In vanilla there were 3 different skillsets with it and 1.3 offerred 5 different skillsets.  This was because the need for revival was so prevalent that it allowed for some variety.  Sure, a group of 5x Specials with Item secondary worked, but it was boring as hell.  I am so much more a fan of having someone with white magic and someone with punch art and someone with summon magic etcetcetc because I needed to have the revival but I also liked everything else the skillset offered.  That said, I am however interested in breaking up the revivers from the cleansers -- for as monks had revive, they also had stigma magic.  Esuna was friends with raise and remedy lurved phoenix down.  So now the defensive-ish skillsets will be less catch-all, and provide some opportunity cost.  The curers still need to be somewhere in the mix, too, but I'd rather not see all three in a single skillset.  

Whoa, this is... quite a post, more than I was expecting! I will do my best to respond to each point in tow.

Revival is quite a rather gigantic thing, I do admit. Admittedly it was to stop sandbagging, but I don't think limiting the player's choice is the best way to deal with that. Your idea is worth merit and will be implemented. Also I Love that you also had the idea to break up the Defenders (though it was more or less coincidental when I had done so). All in all your ideas here are top notch and will be implemented.

And then let's not forget pacing... curing, dispelling, and revival should all be available early on, meaning:  Knight, Traveler, Monk, Scryer, Cantor, and Invoker.  But, we're somewhat set there already.  Monk offers dispelling, Scryer's got some curing, and cantor has revival plus curing.  Additionally Blue Mage offers curing (as does Knight, I'll split Rad/Ramza to each have one of these) while Esperblade will rock all 3, although they'll be split into two subgroups.  So... from here I suggest Warder gets a major dispel, and Dragoon a revival skill.  This gives us:

3 revivers (Cantor, Dragoon, Esper)
3 major dispellers (Monk, Warder, Esper)
4 curers (Scryer, Knight/BM, Cantor, Esper)

Which covers all the defensive bases, I think.

Pacing is very important and I can't tell if I ignored that with my initial skill choices or not.  As you mentioned each of those are necessary to make the game run smoothly. Also giving a curing skill to Knight (to partially represent Paladin) is a very good idea!  Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.

Regarding the to-be split skillsets, taking a page from Raven... we're at 338-ish editable skillslots.  If you want 15 classes with 16 skills a piece (BM is a freebie

Haha! I love that description. I think Abraxas and Somber Drive's formula both need looked at, we should balance that in some way. Transfusion is nice, very nice infact! I like how you managed that. Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness? Chaste Slice will need reworked a bit... might be scrapped in the end, (since that formula is the one we just made today). So any suggestions to a similar...ish skill would be great. Thank you for All of this Philsov and I hope my return post was adequate to suit needs and curiosities.

[philsov]

Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.

Heh, yes.  I do mean esuna-esque.  As for dragoon specifically... maybe not.  I would like to see a revival skill somewhere on the northern region of the job tree that isn't BM or Warder, and it seems most fitting on Dragoon rather than any other option.  

I planned for... well everything in Mercenaries to cost some amount of MP.

Ah.  Very well, once we start working with hard numbers we can assign fitting MP costs

I suggest that Smite cost 6 MP.

Agreed.  I apparently left off the planned high MP cost.

Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness?

There's a bug with guns (really, anything with WP*WP formula) that prevents the use of formulas 1, 2, and 5 without using the ARH lest 999 exploitation occur.  As swiftness would probably use these formulae, you'll need to do some followthrough.

[LastingDawn]

Warder having a major Dispel makes a good deal of sense (by Dispel I assume you mean Esuna-esque.) Dragoon getting revival... hmm, I'll wait to see how you manage that before I completely commit to it.

Heh, yes.  I do mean esuna-esque.  As for dragoon specifically... maybe not.  I would like to see a revival skill somewhere on the northern region of the job tree that isn't BM or Warder, and it seems most fitting on Dragoon rather than any other option.  

I see what you mean, hmm.... well we'll cross that bridge when the time comes.

I planned for... well everything in Mercenaries to cost some amount of MP.

Ah.  Very well, once we start working with hard numbers we can assign fitting MP costs

Indeed, once everything gets hammered out we can start with that.

Is there a reason why Guns shouldn't be allowed to use Swiftness?

There's a bug with guns (really, anything with WP*WP formula) that prevents the use of formulas 1, 2, and 5 without using the ARH lest 999 exploitation occur.  As swiftness would probably use these formulae, you'll need to do some followthrough.

Ouch, I had no idea that's what the Guns bug was... well thank you ARH! Alright, I will definitely arrange for that.

As always thanks for the feedback, Philsov.

[philsov]

skipping knights for now...

Travelers - Rhodes Scholar?  More like rogue scholar!  lololololololol.  Did a decent split, then mirrored up Pick Up Speed and gave them both cool little duo tricks.  Ramza gained Ghost Strike as Rad has the thing from Monk.

Iconics:
Steal Heart - (MA + 50%) Range 3, Single Target, Charm, CT 3, MP 25
Blow Leaves Dmg F_(MA * 5) 3 Range, 3 Area, 3 Vertical - MP 10
(?????) - (MA + 5%) Range 4, Area 3, Vertical 3, CT 5, MP 60 - Has a small chance to turn your foes into Treasures.

Rad:
Rust Helm - (PA + WP + 60%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 10
Rust Weapon - (PA + WP + 30) Range 3, Single Target, MP 18
Hide Away MA + 70% 3 Range, 3 Vertical, Single Target, CT 4 MP 10
Steal Exp -
Drop Down Speed - (Status 100%) 3 range, Target enemy, MP 16. With a quick incantation they apply slow to the foe.
Saved Time - Success = PA + 90%.  Cancels an ally's haste in order to heal them for ?50%?.

Ramza:
Rust Armor - (PA + WP + 40%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 12
Rust Shield - (PA + WP + 55%) Range 3, Single Target, MP 5
Ghost Strike - Dmg_MP * 5, Melee range, Single Range, MP 10
Steal Gil - CastLvl_SP 100% Hit - Field Wide, CT 2, MP 5
Pick Up Speed - (Status 100%) Target Self, MP 16, With a quick incantation they apply Haste to themselves.
Mineralize - Success = MA + 55% - Attempts to inflict Petrify to an already Slowed opponent.

~

Gambler - My life is a chip in your pile.  Ante up!

Iconics:
Darts -  Formula: 1F (100-CasF)*(100-TarF)* (Move + 0) * Current MP/2 #Hit Rdm - X Variable:10 - Y Variable: 0 - Range: 4 - Effect Area: 0 - Vertical: 1 - - CT: 2 - MP: 15
Jackpot - 50/50 chance to hurt or heal targets in range.  How is this getting rigged up?
(Shady Deal) - Steal Acc

Ramza:
Dice Off - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals light-moderate non-elemental magical damage 1-6 times randomly between the gambler and his target
Straight - Deals one of 5 status effects at 50% -- (Blind/Poison/Don't Move/Addle/Berserk)
Ace of Spades - Deals high damage, Low chance to cause instant death.
Double Down - Self + AoE 1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Reraise/Don't Move
Roulette - Haste or Slow to everything in sight
Polarize - Innocent or Faith everything in sight

Rad:
Coin Toss - Range 1, area 1, linear attack, random fire, deals moderate-heavy non-elemental magical damage to either the Gambler or his target (only hits once, so 50-50 odds)
Three of a Kind - 3 range linear - PA-based damage with a chance to inflict ?????
Tantalize - MA+60% chance to inflict Stop. (we need less charm and confusion imo)
Drink Off - Self + AoE1.  ~50% chance to work with 50/50 Sleep/Berserk
???? - Poison or Regen to everything in sight
Dazzle - Blind or Protect to everything in sight (Defend and Blind might be more fitting, but def is too temp for blind)

~

Reliquarian - Much like the Scryer, this chap is capped on available, so little will be added/split.  Tweaking may be needed, but later!

~

Blue Mage - Needs no description!

Iconics
Choco Cure - Self AoE Curing
Drain Touch - MP damage and MP restoration all in one!
(Hurricane) - I think self-destruct is imba, but secret skills will be looked at after the status effect bit.  

Ramza
Eye gouge
Ice Breath
Triple Thunder
Spark
Calm Spirit
Not cat kick - ???

Rad
Mind Blast
Blaster
Blow Fire
Triple Attack
Wind Soul
Circle

~

Esperblade - Subjected to a paradigm shift.  The esperblades will only be able to summon Espers tied to their equipped weapon, thanks to ARH. There are 4 subgroups with 4 espers each, to the tune of:  Healing, Support, Elemental, and Non-elemental.  Highly specialized but highly effective.  All spells are Faith-based, and all spells in the elemental and non-elemental brances have a 100% chance to hit.  Also forgive me for imprinting summon functions from my own patch :3.

Healing
Moogle - Range 4. AoE 2 - Wide-area healing
Fairy - Range 4, AoE 0 - Revives target with 50% health (Raise, basically)
Leviathan - Range 3, AoE 2 - Regen infliction
Silf - Range 3, AoE 1 - Drains 15% HP from targets.  (does AoE drain work, at all?  Would be nice to siphon life from a large area, while keeping things balanced for boss fights coupled with the drain cap ASM)

Elemental - Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh do the same damage with the same MP cost.  Titan is stronger (same MP?) due to range issues.
Ifrit - Range 4, AoE 2, affects both enemies and allies.  Fire elemental.
Shiva - Range 6, linear.  Enemies only.  Ice ele
Ramuh - Range 4, 3-way attack.  Enemies only. Lit ele
Titan - Range 0, AoE 2.  Enemies only.  Earth ele.  

Support
Golem - Range 3, AoE 1 - Esuna-like effect, high success rate.
Salamander - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 170) chance to inflict Berserk.  Enemy only.
Lich - Range 4, AoE 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 180) - Removes all positive status from the enemy.
Carbunkle - ?Confuddle? - Range 4, AoE - 1 - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 130) - inflicts Charm, Confuse, OR sleep.  Enemy only.

Non-elemental
Bahamut - Range 4, AoE 2.  Affects both enemies and allies.  Higher damage and MP cost than ifrit.
Odin - Range 6 Linear - CFa/100 * TFa/100 * (MA + 140) to inflict either Dead or Death Sentence
Zodiac - Range 4, AoE 0 - heavy damage, no AoE.
Cyclops - Range 4, AoE 3 - Med-Light damage, wide area.

That's it for now