Final Fantasy Hacktics

Here is a list of Questions. Copy the questions, put an [X] next to the choice you like and post the reply here.

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[] - Yes
[] - No

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker ? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[X] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[X] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[] - Yes
[X] - No


I believe we should start small. We should first try to see if we can make monsters useful by merging all the movesets and doing some tweaking of Innates and such before we even consider letting them be able to switch RSMs, much less wear equipment.

Doesn't letting monsters equip weapons screw them up immensely anyway?

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker ? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[X] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[X] - 3 move monsters
[] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

We already have our base in 1.3 monsters. From there, remove elemental weaknesses (except for the undead ones - I don't think you can do anything about that anyway?) and give all monsters at least ~300 HP. Now, instead of having 3 tiers of each monster type, we only have 1 tier. These monsters would have 5 abilities total - 4 that are spread through the three tiers in 1.3, and one monster skill. Each monster's monster skill will likely put the monsters relatively even with generics in terms of power. We can tweak from there.

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[X] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only The items in arena are really well balanced imo and allow for a lot more strategy in teams for roles etc.
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters (Im not sure how this would work?)
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[X] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up (Assuming there are JP costs)
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker ? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[X] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[X] - Yes
[] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[X] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker ? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[X] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[X] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Bad news. Monsters can't equip anything it seems. Entering a battle removes the monster's equipment, unless they are Male/Female gender. If they are, we get bugs like this:

(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj174/FF255Master/UltimaDemon.png)


We *MAY* find a fix, but it is unlikely. Still, answer if you feel like answering the questions, answer question 2, just in case.

I'm working on it. I can't guarantee anything because of the way the game works though. I will have to change the way how monster abilities display to show like a regular human:
skillset
skillset
r
s
m

instead of
skill
skill
skill
skill

don't demons, workers and someothers have a skillsets instead of skills?

Monsters can be done like Demons (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqGJZ0rlA-I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqGJZ0rlA-I)) for example) and such but they still will not keep equipment. They lose it all as soon as the battle begins. Like the chocobo in the video was equipped but lost it all.

here's my answers, personal comments are separated by brackets

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories? [Lasting Dawn made this work somehow in Mercenaries]
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[X] - Yes, Accessories only [Exception, Skeleton, Goblin, and Mind Flayer monsters should be able to equip weapons and armor as well]
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes [provided you mean no more then 2 of the same monster class]
[] - No

skip summarized it pretty well. Especially on the part of humanoid monsters being able to equip themselves fully. We might need to add/change/remove  reactions/supports in some monsters to make them balanced though, so I'm not keen on the "reactions from 1.3" idea...

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[X] - Yes, Accessories only
[] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[] - No
[X] - Yes, but it should be fixed for each monster class.

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter

Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes (What Skip said, though)
[] - No

Basically, monsters should be like "loadouts" to the generic classes - standard, powerful units ready to use right out of the box, that provide a specific utility to teams. They should not be able to stand alone, so a whole team of them cannot be made effectively. Also, due to the use of generic secondaries, the same-skill rule applies - i.e. Assume Mindflayers are given geomancy secondary - you cannot then have a Mindflayer and 2 Geomancers on your team.

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[] - 3 move monsters
[X] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[] - No
[X] - I like Aero's idea

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

Question 4 asks if you want them to be able to choose a reaction, each one given a certain reaction, or all of them have counter, if any of you are confused.

If any of the questions need to be clarified, I'm pretty sure it's Question 7 (especially in the face of the tiered or separate question).

By monster classes, I mean not being able to use 3 different monster classes. Eg. You can have a team of 2 humans, a Goblin, and a Chocobo, but can't have a team with a human, a Goblin, a Chocobo and a Skeleton. You also can't have a team of 3 Chocobo's and a human. It's basically stopping people from slapping 4 monsters into a team and entering with 0 effort.

Also, Aero, can you clarify a bit? If secondaries were fixed, we may as well have 1 skillset for the monster, except for examples such as Geomancy/Jump. Monsters learn everything anyway.

I myself was thinking that monsters may have some generic abilities added to pad out their skillsets, for example, Goblins might gain Throw Stone, Confuse and Threaten in addition to Tackle, Turn Punch, Goblin Fist, Eye Gouge and Mutilate.

This reminds me of something I've yet to fully test: How does Talk Skill work with monsters anyway? I'm guessing they don't need Monster Talk, but it wouldn't first time I've been wrong about something I've yet to confirm.

Question 1
Should we have 3 move monsters(Chocobos, Goblins, etc in vanilla) or seperate moveset monsters(Ultima Demons, Apandas, Worker 8 )? Seperate moveset monsters will mean the removal of Monster Skill and Monster Talk.
[X] - 3 move monsters - but imo punt Monster Skill and make all the monsters 4 move monsters.  Attack-ish + 3 real moves.
[] - seperate moveset

Question 2
Should monsters be able to equip Weapons/Armor/Accessories?
[] - Yes, to all equipment
[] - Yes, Armor and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Armor only
[] - Yes, Weapons and Accessories only
[] - Yes, Weapons only
[] - Yes, Armor only
[] - Yes, Accessories only
[X] - No.   Strongly in favor of shotgunning immunities onto monsters, however.  stats and class evasion covers the rest.

Question 3
Should monsters be able to equip a different secondary?
[] - Yes, using the human generic abilities
[] - Yes, using a special list of secondaries for monsters
[X] - No

Question 4
Should monsters be able to equip different reactions?
[] - Yes
[X] - No, reactions are set like 1.3 - not 1.3 exactly, but a set but varied rxn is the way to go.
[] - No, only reaction they get is Counter


Question 5
Should monsters be able to equip different supports?
[] - Yes
[] - Yes, but only Attack Up/Defense Up/Magic Attack Up/Magic Defense Up
[X] - No - if they deserve anything they can get it innate.

Question 6
Should monsters be able to equip different movements?
[] - Yes
[X] - No

Question 7
Should monsters be limited to 2 monster classes per team?
[X] - Yes
[] - No

some preliminary monster ideas, sticking with 4 move monsters for now because thinking up unique monster abilities is difficult

Skeleton
Always: Undead
Absorb: Dark
Weak: Holy, Fire
Half: Ice, Wind
Immune: Don't Act, Don't Move, Death Sentence, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Reaction: HP Restore
Support: Defend UP
Move: Move Underwater

Knife Hand: basic attack, range 1v3, may inflict Don't Act

Burial: deals 40% of target hp damage, range 4, area 4, linear attack, dark element

Coffin Nail: deals PA/2 * PA damage, range 2, area 1v3, dark element, may inflict Don't Move

Lurk: self heal 25% hp and add Defending (death formula)

Ghost
Always: Undead
Initial: Transparent
Weak: Holy, Fire
Half: Ice
Cancel: Earth
Immune: Don't Act, Don't Move, Death Sentence, Poison, Regen, Sleep
Reaction: Sunken State
Support: Defend UP
Move: Teleport, Float

Throw Spirit: deals PA/2 * MA damage, range 4

Possession: give a single ally an extra turn, cannot target self, range 3

Scare: inflict Don't Move, Confusion or Sleep, range 4, area 0

Malevolence: sacrifice self to deal shock damage + 100% Charm, range 4, area 0

this is going to bring up a ton of balance considerations that you're gonna have to deal with on top of the current generic metagame which isn't balanced for 4v4 play, currently

IMO balance this shit for 4v4 perfectly and THEN think about making huge changes like these

Quote from: "Voldemort"this is going to bring up a ton of balance considerations that you're gonna have to deal with on top of the current generic metagame which isn't balanced for 4v4 play, currently

IMO balance this shit for 4v4 perfectly and THEN think about making huge changes like these

That is the plan Arch.

then why is this thread here

It's list of questions if they would add it and if they would add it what kind of direction it should go, when 4v4 is perfected, this doesn't mean that it comes right away.

the proposed monsters I posted were more of a format check then anything, to see if we're all agreed yet, I should have been more clear on that when I posted them

Speaking of the proposed monsters, it's rather eerie how similar we think alike at times....

But, yeah, more than anything this thread is just to get the preliminary decisions out of the way while we try to finish balancing the Humes.

I just thought of something important to consider with allowing monsters, Panthers and the Blood Suck status. Is Blood Suck too powerful of a status ailment even at a 25% infection rate? Given that the only way humans have of guarding against it are 108 gems, and the only means of curing it is Holy Water, if one or both were not present on a team then even a single infection could spell doom.

No blood suck status. Ever.

I want to say the same for the Confusion status also.

Quotethe only means of curing it is Holy Water, if one or both were not present on a team then even a single infection could spell doom.

Possibly.  But we can also easily expand esuna/remedy/stigma magic/etc to cancel it as well.  That aspect is curable.

However, I'm still against it (more than morbol status!) because even if cleansing is available a team can go from clearly ahead to completely defeated in a single round if the suckers keep attacking the person next on AT.

What if blood suck status no longer counted as Unable to fight? Then it would basically become a more potent version of confuse, but the AI will still attack the afflicted, and if an entire team gets infected, then they can keep fighting on (though the match might possibly devolve into a massive 8-way blood orgy)

....and we could also probably edit the blood suck ability to not inflict blood suck 100% of the time to avoid becoming a zombie swarm.

We could even make the human version of blood suck not inflict status at all, so only vampires could infect people (at a 25% chance or less), and not infected humans

which in turn turns blood suck into a combination berserk/confusion that's easily cleansable.  This seems fine