Final Fantasy Hacktics

Dark holy got Nerfed?  why? it was already weaker than flare or holy by every possible metric.

Quote from: Malroth on August 02, 2016, 04:52:07 pm
Dark holy got Nerfed?  why? it was already weaker than flare or holy by every possible metric.

Kind of in the same boat as you on that one, but wasn't around to discuss this (I actually was out this whole weekend and didn't really know changes were being discussed.)

I liked it paralleling holy.

Quote from: silentkaster on August 02, 2016, 05:24:22 pm
Kind of in the same boat as you on that one, but wasn't around to discuss this (I actually was out this whole weekend and didn't really know changes were being discussed.)

I liked it paralleling holy.

while i personally did like it paralelling holy myself. (and was having half a mind to make a yinyang character that used both holy and dark holy as key abilities for its attacks) unlike flare it can be strengthened by dark strengthening. in this regard. i will say that Dark holy is stronger than flare ever was. but also had a vulnerability of not working against absorb dark teams.

Defense-piercing skills such as the nether spells (counters low-Brave) and tons (counters low-Faith) should always be weaker due to their design (example: compare Bolt to Nether Bolt).  While tons require specific setups (during battle, even, with the likes of buffing with Innocent and/or putting the targets to sleep) to be able to one-hit low-Faith units, Dark Holy could one-hit low-Brave units with simply having decent MA.  Nether Bolt is only MAx9, and it has proven destructive towards low-Brave units, while Dark Holy was MAx16, which is MUCH higher.  Thus, MAx14 is still very potent for an UnBrave skill, and it's still justified due to Dark Holy's single-target nature, 5 CT, and high MP cost.

Quote from: Andrew on August 02, 2016, 06:16:12 pm
Defense-piercing skills such as the nether spells (counters low-Brave) and tons (counters low-Faith) should always be weaker due to their design (example: compare Bolt to Nether Bolt).  While tons require specific setups (during battle, even, with the likes of buffing with Innocent and/or putting the targets to sleep) to be able to one-hit low-Faith units, Dark Holy could one-hit low-Brave units with simply having decent MA.  Nether Bolt is only MAx9, and it has proven destructive towards low-Brave units, while Dark Holy was MAx16, which is MUCH higher.  Thus, MAx14 is still very potent for an UnBrave skill, and it's still justified due to Dark Holy's single-target nature, 5 CT, and high MP cost.

Sorry, then I must also point this out if that's the case.

I'm going to argue several main points.

1. We have already buffed having low brave by introducing Lay on Hands...a res skill on a popular skillset. So this is kind of a big deal. While you can say we counter balanced with Dark Holy, we put the Unbrave res skill on a skillset that previously had no res skill. We put Dark Holy (AKA "Nether Holy" so it can be compared to other Nether skills) on the same skillset that has the other un-brave attack skills.

2. You used tons to make your point with innocent, but there are no innocent or faith status that can manipulate brave. It can only be manipulated with MA and strengthening. Tons have the advantage of status and while they are weaker, they're all instant. That in itself is pretty huge, especially when you have an AI running around that might use Dark Holy to one shot instead of using a better AOE skill to damage multiple people. (Since the Ninja doesn't have AOE skills besides Houkouton which is a different range and type of attack altogether, this also is a minor point in my favor.)

3. The Nether spells have AOE which Dark Holy does not.

4. This might encourage mid-brave builds. We see so many 40 brave units like mages and Chemists running around and part of your argument is that they're getting punished. Well, sorry. That's how it should be. They should have something to worry about too and it's all on one skill set. Absorb Dark, wear reflect ring or raise your brave and you're covered against this threat. (Of course, you open yourself up to others but what kind of build doesn't?)

5. There are other ways to nerf the spell than lower its MA like have it cost more MP or raise its CT (in which case I'd also argue to raise Holy's CT since it has the potential, and does, one shot 70 faith units and some even lower faith.)

I kinda look at this like I do old Ultima now. It's probably not going to be worth the one shot and it's less useful than flare now in my opinion.

(Note: Any more replies in this thread on this topic I will be moving to a new topic or the Balance discussion thread along with what is already existing.)

As an aside, we really need to make sure we let people on the forum know and give at least 48 hour notice so that people can be present at the discussions. We can't assume "there are enough people in discord" and just do it as messages get lost or are too far to scroll up. I almost protested the changes since I strongly disagree with a couple of them, this being one of them but let it go this time.

Eh, I tried.

Here's a quick battle with my SCC team vs DW's Touch me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8f87TU0fYc&feature=youtu.be

Silentkaster's Andrew's Favorite vs Celdia's Weapons of War
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-XiiPzuizU&feature=youtu.be

FFT Arena 140a - CT5Holy (Trampoline) vs TrueLight (Immobilized)

FFT Arena 140a - Dokurider (Oregon Trail) vs dw6561 (Suikoden II Girls)

FFT Arena 140a - silentkaster (Andrew's Favorite) vs Shintroy (Bad Breath)


Edit Note: Defense Ring currently protects against Stop instead of Sleep; this will be fixed soon.

Apologies, these videos are (possibly) not an accurate representation of how the teams actually fare in matches. They were recorded inadvertedly with a patch containing old bugs. I will re-do those matches with the proper setup. In the meantime, please use the below .rar, which contains the fixed old bugs as well as some new bug fixes (which will be posted once the sticky is updated).

FFT Arena 1.4A - Silentkaster (Need for Speed) vs. Malroth (I Made a Lore Team)

FFT Arena 1.4A - Heroebal (Summer Fun) vs. CT5Holy (Tag!)

^ Make sure to watch TrueLight's recording posted above!

***Barren's team, "Personally, I Prefer The Air", was outdated when I recorded.  I just checked all of the other teams and they were up-to-date.  I'll record a rematch for Barren sometime today.***


Each match is available in 720p60fps quality.

FFT Arena 1.40a: TrueLight (Rend Asunder)  -=VS=-  gatebuster202 (Lionhearted)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Reks (Mantle Gear)  -=VS=-  CT5Holy (Trampoline)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Heroebal (Bieber Summer Fever 1.40 2016 World Tour!!!)  -=VS=-  Barren (Personally, I Prefer The Air)

REMATCH - FFT Arena 1.40a: Heroebal (Bieber Summer Fever 1.40 2016 World Tour!!!)  -=VS=-  Barren (Personally, I Prefer The Air)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Corosar (Return of the Base Elements)  -=VS=-  Jaaster (Stellazio)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Anima Zero (Frozen in Time)  -=VS=-  Malroth (I Made a Lore team)

FFT Arena 1.40a: dw6561 (Mirror Item)  -=VS=-  Celdia (Weapons of War)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Shintroy (RaNGers)  -=VS=-  Dokurider (Gossip Circle)

FFT Arena 1.40a: silentkaster (100% Accuracy)  -=VS=-  WKW (Kakumeiki)

Quote from: Andrew on August 06, 2016, 01:28:42 am
FFT Arena 1.40a: TrueLight (Rend Asunder)  -=VS=-  gatebuster202 (Lionhearted)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Reks (Mantle Gear)  -=VS=-  CT5Holy (Trampoline)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Heroebal (Bieber Summer Fever 1.40 2016 World Tour!!!)  -=VS=-  Barren (Personally, I Prefer The Air)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Corosar (Return of the Base Elements)  -=VS=-  Jaaster (Stellazio)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Anima Zero (Frozen in Time)  -=VS=-  Malroth (I Made a Lore team)

FFT Arena 1.40a: dw6561 (Mirror Item)  -=VS=-  Celdia (Weapons of War)

FFT Arena 1.40a: Shintroy (RaNGers)  -=VS=-  Dokurider (Gossip Circle)

FFT Arena 1.40a: silentkaster (100% Accuracy)  -=VS=-  WKW (Kakumeiki)

spoiler: All Matches and Information

spoiler: How I do things

I use www.random.org to determine who fights who, and then I'll use the latest teams.  During my first few posts, though, I'll be randomly-picking the teams, as well.

All three maps per match are randomly-selected. 

If there are an uneven amount of active players, then the odd one out will fight a completely-random player, active or not!

If there are less than 10 active players, then I will use random, non-active players to fill in the gaps.

Zalmo won't like this one bit, but... RNGesus is the true god.  Sorry to break it to ya, man.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3RK1n2ZPqxk8wZdG8-wyng
- Additional team information can be found on YouTube in the description section for each match.
- The embedded videos only run in 720p30.  If you want 720p60, you will have to watch them on YouTube.

spoiler: 001   FFT Arena 1.40a: TrueLight (Rend Asunder)  -=VS=-  gatebuster202 (Lionhearted)

spoiler: 002   FFT Arena 1.40a: Reks (Mantle Gear)  -=VS=-  CT5Holy (Trampoline)

spoiler: 003   FFT Arena 1.40a: Heroebal (Bieber Summer Fever 1.40 2016 World Tour!!!)  -=VS=-  Barren (Personally, I Prefer The Air)

spoiler: 004   FFT Arena 1.40a: Corosar (Return of the Base Elements)  -=VS=-  Jaaster (Stellazio)

spoiler: 005   FFT Arena 1.40a: Anima Zero (Frozen in Time)  -=VS=-  Malroth (I Made a Lore team)

spoiler: 006   FFT Arena 1.40a: dw6561 (Mirror Item)  -=VS=-  Celdia (Weapons of War)

spoiler: 007   FFT Arena 1.40a: Shintroy (RaNGers)  -=VS=-  Dokurider (Gossip Circle)

spoiler: 008   FFT Arena 1.40a: silentkaster (100% Accuracy)  -=VS=-  WKW (Kakumeiki)

Uhhh Andrew ,I had that team updated for a few days and that was just the previous version of it. Or did you record it way back in advance?

Quote from: Barren on August 06, 2016, 07:24:44 am
Uhhh Andrew ,I had that team updated for a few days and that was just the previous version of it. Or did you record it way back in advance?

No, I recorded all of these yesterday.  I must have missed your update somehow, apologies.  I'll record a rematch today sometime.

I just checked all of the other teams that I recorded with, and they were all up-to-date, so no worries, guys.

my question is.. and it was hidden in my spoiler tag for my match but i am courious. Has anything changed with the algorithm with the teams self preservation system? i find my team seems to refuse to cast or use revival abilities. last i remember the team should be trying to revive more than attack.

Nope, the AI is acting as intended, Corosar.  Due to what was happening at that time in your match, your team's AI realized that it was not worth going for the revival, since those units would most-likely die anyway, and opted-out for dealing damage instead (because the AI *loves* dealing damage, as we all know).

EDIT 1: I will be updating my former matches post once Heroebal's and Barren's rematch is done processing on YouTube.

EDIT 2: Matches post updated with Heroebal's and Barren's rematch.

weird. my team use to not stop reviving when it could of ended the match in the last patch. its why i was wondering. its throwing me off personally. i am often use to building around making sure as many units can revive as possible.