Employment...Future of games

[Million Melodi]

You know, the creators of games should really scan forums of us Fans, and utilize the talent that makes adjustments. Don't get me wrong, the first time I Played FFT and  Sims 2  *I had to sneak that in* became a wonderful xspeariance. But once custom content surfaced, I quickly jumped off the vanilla versions and dove into making my own experience. They really under appreciate you guys, and maybe hire ya'll for future product improvement. Man.... Games ain't what they used to be. kick ass      sprites      kicking ass      custom sprites      Kick Ass-ness      Naruto sprites?      Kicking Asscheaks      More Shinobi      Stronger NME"S to kick their Ass's      Recolors to look sweet while we do it     

[formerdeathcorps]

You know, the creators of games should really scan forums of us Fans, and utilize the talent that makes adjustments. Don't get me wrong, the first time I Played FFT and  Sims 2   *I had to sneak that in* became a wonderful xspeariance. But once custom content surfaced, I quickly jumped off the vanilla versions and dove into making my own experience. They really under appreciate you guys, and maybe hire ya'll for future product improvement. Man.... Games ain't what they used to be.

I've been saying the same thing, but the gaming companies would rather see us as pirates and copyright thieves unless we only play what they make (and not what we edit) and accept their changes to a series as the final word over everything (no matter how much the wish for profit overrides storyline coherence, good gameplay, or creativity).

[GeneralStrife]

  this thread

[Million Melodi]

General feels the same way

[Lijj]

Great signature!

[Lijj]

oh it's not your signature but I appreciate it anyway; very funny

[GeneralStrife]

this thread is the reason waldo is hiding

[Dome]

I agree
SE should think of us as a resource, not as a danger
We are improving/creating for free new games/mods

But such a thing won't happen...

[Million Melodi]

I should put that on my sig...Most of the extra content (DLC) are gained by payment, and majority of things they want to hide we'll find. So it wouldn't be possible to acquire DLC's because we beat a game using a requirement, and exchanged our ticket for something else. So they keep making a slightly new modified version in a year or so. Which is why... I F-IN love the Sims 2 for PC. Will Wright wanted to make new games that would supersede his semi-godly creation, but we that idea with a butt load of Free CC. I bet, someone was thinking of us when they created FFT. They where like, "Man, my boss wanted me to hurry this game up like his time in bed with his wife! But...." and that was the end of his thoughts, cause that's how quick his boss finishes up in bed.

[Mando]

I mean let us be serious here...
The reason why gaming companies wouldn't ever use us as a resource or for employment is that we are not "creating original work"

In order to get in the gaming industry and "create" video games or artwork you need a connection (for the Japanese gaming companies) or be an amazing programmer, artist, or musician. Otherwise most people could get a job at these companies dealing with HR, Marketing, or even Community Support.

I know many people here would say but my ideas are original!!!! The issue is... the game itself is still Square Enix's property. If people want to show their skills then they need to hop on the Tethical team like Lijj did (sprite wise).

That is something being built from the ground up and would actually catch major development attention if it gets popular enough.

Note* I am not saying that someone couldn't get a job if they made an epic mod that thousands or people played... I am just pointing out as far as this community goes... only people I could ever see dealing with gaming industry as of right now are those doing ASM and Artists because they CAN and HAVE created original work.

...this is just something to keep in mind.


Other suggestions: Become good at community relations and market yourself to companies after some experience in industry, start creating original music pieces, become fluent in multiple languages, create original art, storyboard-script stories/games/movies (yes this involves light sketching), and many other things... just don't use tools others made and think it will land you a super awesome job. If you pay someone enough money they would more than likely be able to learn to use them as well and create similar products >.>;

[formerdeathcorps]

1) You're essentially saying to be one-man studio.  This works if and only if you have the talent to draw, make music, and program.  Considering how most major video game companies split this task (i.e. their top producers aren't all artists, programmers, AND musicians simultaneously), there's no reason to expect yourself to.  I think it would be more practical to learn one of the above crafts and form a team.  If you look at the early histories of many video game companies, that's how they got started too.

2)

The reason why gaming companies wouldn't ever use us as a resource or for employment is that we are not "creating original work"

This feels like the "public excuse" they'll give for shutting down a fan-site engaged in hacking.  The average user-generated patch online pales in comparison to the stuff the game company makes, but as a whole, the fan-base functions as strong a development tool as the main company.  IP issues (with title/character crossovers and ownership of the game's storyline/plot/battle system/physics engine) aside, the fanbase provides:
1) Free advertising
2) Final bug-testing
3) Complaints on public forums = Free Market Research
4) Via Hackers/Spriters...free mechanics/plot-line development and customization
5) Unlike rival companies and corporate careerists, most fans will be delighted (rather than threaten to sue) if the main company uses their ideas (even without credit).
Considering the dearth of creativity and sound AI/mechanics in games lately, it would be irrational for a game company to not use the millions of eyes of fans to help them.  However, by relying on the fanbase, the game company forfeits their absolute control over the creation of mechanics, AI, and plot.  This, I feel, is the real reason why they don't want to use the fans as a resource.

3)

In order to get in the gaming industry and "create" video games or artwork you need a connection (for the Japanese gaming companies) or be an amazing programmer, artist, or musician. Otherwise most people could get a job at these companies dealing with HR, Marketing, or even Community Support.

This assumes "we" "want" to get "their" attention.  I personally don't, unless it was on equitable terms (with big companies, it almost NEVER is).

4)

I know many people here would say but my ideas are original!!!! The issue is... the game itself is still Square Enix's property. If people want to show their skills then they need to hop on the Tethical team like Lijj did (sprite wise).

That is something being built from the ground up and would actually catch major development attention if it gets popular enough....
If you pay someone enough money they would more than likely be able to learn to use them as well and create similar products.

Undoubtedly true on both counts.  However, if we were to follow the strictest interpretation of IP laws, this essentially poses an unfair entry barrier against independent gamers.  They'd have to make everything from scratch, which restricts both the quality (essentially you're forced to create a one-man/few-man coding team, and you have to generate realistic 2D/3D graphics/sprites/mechanics without using any existing model), and the quantity (because the above work is crushingly heavy/frustrating and you're doing this for free).  To be honest, that's not a reasonable expectation for a newb (unless he majored in programming) who comes here (or to any other hacking site) with a dream of making FFT (or whatever other game) look like what he wants.  Of course, he can't make money off it, but there's no reason why that can't be the first step for someone to ultimately make "his own" game.  And if he thinks it's good, why not share (legal issues aside)?  Whether or not he "strikes it big" is totally dependent on the merits of his (re)creations and how well he advertises, because with a proof of concept in hand, the conversion to "original material" is only a matter of tedium (and such a popular modder could easily use his fans to help him here).

[Mando]

Well, nothing is stopping people from collaborating if they want to do so FDC except themselves, and if they collaborated the person would not have to be a "one man studio".

I totally agree the whole "original work" policy is unfair. "To learn one must first imitate." Someone had to have learned and copied some scripts from each other at some point or another... that is why many programming languages/software have libraries of classes and code...

Either way I am with you on this. I don't want their attention either and I could never see myself working in anyway for the gaming industry.

[Alma Beoulve]

They do.

http://www.square-enix.com/na/careers/#cs01

This position is in regards to the rerelease of FFXIV, but there are several who are in this position for the regular gaming communities as well.

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

"SE is competing for attention among our ever-increasing distractions as much as money.  This site, while it doesn't make take money away from SE, is still competing with SE's own creations which derive from FFT, so we are taking money from them."
^That's the only argument SE has.  It is easily countered with the following:

"By modifying SE's product, and making sure that you have to have your own personal SE product to use our tools, then we are driving demand for SE's product, and what's more, this increase in demand can be measured and quantified, which is more than can be said for anything SE complains about in their argument.  Also, we're putting out free advertising for SE's products, both by our positive portrayals of their product and our demand that users of our tools buy their own product before they can use our tools.  We can reinforce this portion of the argument by having threads that show where you can buy the legitimate SE products that our tools modify.  If anything, SE should be paying us for all the good we're doing them, and if they give us any crap we could always turn this site into a forum for modding Tethical.

TL;DR
PGF saves the day once again.

[Alma Beoulve]

The only problem is you are editing their work which they have copyright protection due to the encryption. You have to use software that bypasses the encryption on the disc or UMD.

I see your point, but you can't really expect to go into a legal argument expecting to use the ends justify the means approach. It won't end well.

Also, might I recommend not having on your flash page "We're trying to elude SE so lets change servers!" It really makes a well-thought out post such as yours diminish in value. If FFH wants to be recognized for good deed so elude legal actions of any sorts, your first step should be not to have asshole moves reflecting your site.

Its like moderators. I site could be excellent, but if you have bad moderators, the site burns down with them. Epitomization is important y'know.

[Xifanie]

WotL has encryption, sure, but not the PSX version.

We moved servers because it was free. I always said I wasn't scared of a C&D and that I would frame it; I really mean it, I'd love to get a C&D from SE lol. I mainly mentioned that fact because a lot of people including Eternal were scared like hell that you would make us shut down by reporting us. I just calmed down unnecessary tension.

Since when did FFH want to be recognized for good deeds? We just hack a video game.

[Alma Beoulve]

Now, for more pressing matters. Exactly what is Pickle Girl Fanboy using to hold up the pickle? *Licks Tootsie Pop*

[GeneralStrife]

I hate people who start legal topics, this thread needs to be destroyed like Britney Spear's career.