Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => The Lounge => Topic started by: VincentCraven on April 09, 2010, 08:40:57 am

Title: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 09, 2010, 08:40:57 am
(Dissatisfied with recently released games, that is)

I decided to do a little RPG research.

It would be most helpful if you simply put down your favorite RPG game of all time AND the latest satisfying RPG you've played.  If you know what subset each is ('pure', action, strategy) that's cool too.

If you're feeling rather 'talkative,' details about what makes for great RPGs would also be welcome, as well as lists of other great games.

In case you are curious about my motives, I'm trying to build my computer skills in fun ways, though I wouldn't expect a great game to come of this any time soon.  University teaching is way too slow.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kyousukeee on April 09, 2010, 10:14:40 am
My favorite RPG would be Star Ocean 2
I believe not everyone is familiar with SO2 so I'll list a few reasons :
- Item customization
The key concept for me in this game . You can make your own weapons , armors , food (!) etc or make 'em better by combining two equips or adding jewels and ores . I'm pretty sure there are over 500 itens in this game which makes the scavenger hunt very enjoyable :D
You can open up skills to create itens as you buy skill books in the game , and when you have the right level you'll open 'advanced skills' which helps you in some weird way ( Eg. Summon a gigant bunny to walk around in the world map pretty much like a chocobo ) .
Early in the game you can also open the 'pickpocket' skill which you can use to steal itens from people in town and even your own team members in 'Private Actions' ( tho it'll most likely drop your friendship level with them ) and later you get the advanced skill which-I-forgot-the-name to create counterfeit checks you can sell for a high amount of money , contracts that grant you ownership of INNs so you don't have to pay for the night and even itens that level you up =p

- Real time battles
No turns , you can move around the battlefield to attack monsters , run around them , lure to let your other chars attack it from behind , run from mobs when you are low on health and give time to the healers to cure you and much more . Most of the strong spells will 'freeze' the battle due to animation purposes but you can choose which spells your mages can cast or even put them in a melee mode . After you get some skills books , you'll open the combo counter - it won't add damage or anything but you can see which fighting skills are being triggered .

- Characters relaionship
All haracters in the game are unique with their own personalities , they have their own list of skills that they are good at ( writing , drawing , cooking etc ) and you can train them to get the skills they aren't naturally proficient at . Favorite foods which will heal them for 100% HP and MP . . .
You can futher the interaction with them through the 'Private Actions' . Those are events that happens in pretty much every town in the game , some at specific times , others can be started at any point . You can raise ( or drop ) your friendship/love level with them - which will affect the ending and even the support they give to your character in battle ( Eg. if you have a really bad relationship with Rena she'll heal other more often than you ) .
There are all sorts of events , it will explain things related to the story , others events are romantic-oriented , some will be very funny ( Eg. when Leon tells Claude that he is in love with all female members of your team and ask you to get him to 'date' one of them ) and so on . On most of the events you can either help your friends and get a better relationship with them or mess the whole thing and make even the serious events hilarious .

- Replay
Due to the several combinations of possible endings , which is something around 80 combinations or so plus the different difficulty levels you can open up later I'd say replaying the game is always fun and the increased difficulty makes the game even better .

The graphics aren't good but the game is awesome . The 'freedom' you have in this game is something I've never seen in any other game thus making Star Ocean 2 unique to me , since it's not a 'static' game something aways change whenever you play it . It beats any FF game I've played so far .
My second favorite is Tactics Ogre for PSX - Strategy game
Well any fan of fantasy strategy games HAVE to play this game .
Good plot with different possibilities , excellent gameplay . . . way better than FFT .

after those 2 comes a list of games but not exactly in that order :
Vagrant Story / Final Fantasy IV , VI , VII , Tactics / Castlevania series mostly SOTN onwards / Tactics Ogre the Knight of Lodis / Kartia / Zelda a Link to the Past

My least favorites would be
SaGa Frontier 2 - Good graphics but I didn't enjoy it at all , kinda boring and I had only the japanese version =p
Iggdra Union - Horrible limited gameplay , very polluted graphics .
Knights in the Nightmare - Cool battles but very limited too .

I believe that what makes a game good to play is not being a static thing , I mean , most RPGs are like that . . . a story with a defined storyline , minor changes in course which will not affect the end and nothing else . That's why I like TO , even if the ending does not change much , you can make a different route in the game which will take you to a whole different plot . SO2 doesn't allow you this possibility but the item crafting , customization and character relationship makes up for the straight storyline .
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Tigerspike on April 09, 2010, 11:57:51 am
My favorite RPGs are Final Fantasy I, IV, VI, Tactics Ogre, Disgaea 3, and Chrono Trigger.  I'll also add that I enjoy the Fire Emblem series even though it is very light on RPG elements.

To me, what makes a great RPG is optional content (quests, equipment, characters, etc.), the ability to customize your party, alternate endings, and a great cast of characters.  I also love being able to explore the world, as it reinforces the concept that you are part of the world.

This also makes me think about what I haven'y enjoyed in the latest Final Fantasy games.  In FFX there was really no exploration, the characters were boring (to me), and much like VIII & IX, there was the annoying and tacked-on romance.  FFXII played itself, and I really didn't like the characters all that much (Vaan, why are you here on this quest?  Balthier, shut up about being the leading man, you sound like you've escaped from the mental ward :roll: ).


EDIT: I'll concede that I enjoyed the gambit system to an extent, however, I personally feel that it is unbalanced--making the game too easy when used, and making combat a chore when not used.  After a short time playing the game I had been able to set up a gambit system where I was able to wipe out any enemy on the map without having to be in the same room as my console--and that isn't an exaggeration.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Dokurider on April 09, 2010, 04:20:59 pm
Huh, I've been looking for good RPGs, too.

FFXII: See topic here. (http://www.ffhacktics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4919)

Lunar: Silver Star Story. Excellent game. The first RPG I've played that let's you use your whole party at once, among other things.

I used to like Wild Arms as a kid. Really introduced me to the joys pseudo-philosphy.

I used to like FFVIII, cause I thought Squall was pretty cool guy and stuff.

Earthbound is great.

I heard Legend of Mana and Golden Sun are pretty good.

I've also heard nothing but good things about the Shin Megami Tensi series and the Persona series (not so much the translations though...)
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kaijyuu on April 09, 2010, 08:15:03 pm
QuoteI'm pretty sure there are over 500 itens in this game which makes the scavenger hunt very enjoyable :D
1024, actually. As far as I could tell when messing with items, all the slots were used too.

You can get up to 64 of each item with a gameshark/ect. Dunno why they limited it to 20 in-game; always found that annoying.


---


Awesome RPGs you might not of played:
Valkyrie Profile (PS1) - excellent battle system, though badly paced story
Bahamut Lagoon (SNES) - Decent tactical battle system
Soulblazer (SNES) - Good action RPG from back in the day
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 09, 2010, 09:11:11 pm
Interesting...

Star Ocean 2 I've heard of, but I haven't played yet.

Thanks guys, this is a good start for me.

I actually hadn't played FFIV yet, but I've got it on my PC so I've been playing that today.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VampragonLord on April 09, 2010, 09:14:03 pm
super mario RPG
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 09, 2010, 09:14:56 pm
Quote from: "VampragonLord"super mario RPG

Ahh, those were good times.  Glad to hear from other fans of the game.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Gotwald on April 09, 2010, 09:33:22 pm
Quote from: "VampragonLord"super mario RPG
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: SolidSnakeDog on April 09, 2010, 10:19:12 pm
Quote from: "Gotwald"
Quote from: "VampragonLord"super mario RPG

I even played the hacked version of this game. (All enemies got double attack/magic/HP.)
Great game. (The only thing bad about it is this is a bit too simple and really easy...reison wy i played the *Hard* version to get a chalenge :wink: )
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: philsov on April 09, 2010, 11:39:29 pm
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter. -- This game really is underappreciated.  It's a linear game with a set party, but one hell of a dungeon crawler with a decent storyline with a few hints of rogue-likeness (limited number of true saves, ever-growing D% number which causes game over if abused).  The battle system is absolutely marvelous with tactical placement of your 3 members and an ability point system (kinda like xenogears, only... good) that also works with your movement stat.  Upon replaying you gain access to previously locked doors and access to additional scenes which really help round out the story, all while letting your abilities and equipment carry over.  If you really plan ahead, you can get the best possible game score on your third playthrough -- limit your number of saves, complete the game quickly, open all chests, etc.  In fact, with the exception of "Ryu" the blue-haired guy with a sword who turns into a dragon and "nina" the winged mage type, this deviates so far from the rest of the series its probably better as a stand-alone game.  Brilliant gem, imo.

Dragon Age:Origins -- everyone is one of three classes (warrior, rogue, mage) but there's plenty of specialities to go around.  Decent-sized cast of characters with a 4-person and tactical type battle system, complete with a gambit-like system that comes with presets like "healer" or "archer" or "tank" if you don't want to mess with it.  A lot of open-endedness in terms of direction (though you ultimately complete all 5-ish scenarios eventually), pretty good dungeon crawls, plenty of side-stuff for cash, and the ability to make several key decisions which affect your party (OR LACK OF :D) and the final series of battles.

Persona 4 -- again, good dungeon crawls with a good crew of unique yet interchangeable characters.  Plenty of customization for the main character, and even set to the turn of a sim-type game where you have to juggle the RPG dungeon crawling with spending time with friends and going to clubs/work for cash/battle boosting/cutscenes.  Probably the only RPG that's come out recently that features the older, traditional JRPG combat where I'm on the bottom of the screen and I kill the enemies in front of me.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 11, 2010, 08:48:02 am
I'd play a hacked version of SMRPG, but I've beaten it so many times it's really not worth it even for the increased difficulty.
That being said, it's probably a pretty good start for trying to learn how to make games.

@Philsov: The latest Breath of Fire, eh?  I haven't played too many rouge-like games, but it sounds pretty cool.

There are lots of games that I liked at the time just because I hadn't experienced that type of story before, but I think I mostly liked certain facets of particular games rather than the whole package.

E.g. Quest64:  Probably one of my favorite battle systems, but the storyline could literally fit in about a page or two with all conversation included.

I played Golden Sun and I liked the puzzles embedded in it as well as the overall elemental dynamic, but looking back the story was pretty forgettable.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Archael on April 11, 2010, 03:59:37 pm
I >REALLY< enjoyed Star Ocean 2
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Xifanie on April 11, 2010, 04:14:24 pm
I second Star Ocean 2

Tales of Phantasia, play the PSX version or higher; the SNES version sucks. You can find translation patches on romhacking.net.
Give it a try if you haven't.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kaijyuu on April 11, 2010, 05:08:22 pm
Star Ocean 1 for the SNES was pretty good. There's a remake for the ps2 (or maybe 1, I can't remember) with voice overs and whatnot but I haven't played it so can't say if it's any good.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Zeron on April 11, 2010, 05:32:24 pm
If you want a game with an indepth (and excellent) story then Xenosaga's definitely one to consider.  If you're not all to interested in story then stay the fuck clear of it.

Like Philsov, I also really enjoyed B0F.  Haven't played it in years, so can't say much, but it was a fun one with a decent enough little story.  Some unique battle  system quirks that were good.

Disgaea is a fun enough strategy RPG, but the battle system isn't anything too exciting a lot of the time.  Still I definitely thought it was worth the money time.  Good characters, and a good game overall.  Although the second game was pretty annoying...

I've only heard good things about Shadow Hearts and Shin Megami Tensei, but haven't played either series.  Anyone have opinions on these games?  I guess Persona 4 that philsov mentioned is part of SMT...
For the SMT series is there an order you have to play them in, or are they all separate games?
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Smitson on April 11, 2010, 07:58:32 pm
Star Ocean 2, Jeanne D Arc.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 11, 2010, 11:04:17 pm
I'll make Star Ocean 2 my next.

Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Mari on April 12, 2010, 06:35:53 pm
Time Stalkers!
Fairly unknown game, but I spent many many hours playing it and never a one of them was not fun!
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Skip Sandwich on April 14, 2010, 04:44:45 pm
the MegaTen series is similar to the FF series, in that the games feature similar concepts and motifs, but the plot and characters from game to game are largely irrevelant. the first-person dungeon crawls in the earlier games are a pain in the ass, especially to me, so I'd actually suggest playing one of the many spin-off series instead, Devil Summoner, Digital Devil Saga, and Persona are all very good series based on Megami Tensei.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VampragonLord on April 15, 2010, 12:31:27 pm
digimon world ONE!
i know, i know, ack digimon. But the first digimon world is actually quite good, the gameplay is fairly unique, and it was made BEFORE the show was, so it wasnt smashed with "zomg bandwagonmarketing"
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Dome on April 15, 2010, 01:02:17 pm
Quote from: "VampragonLord"digimon world ONE!
i know, i know, ack digimon. But the first digimon world is actually quite good, the gameplay is fairly unique, and it was made BEFORE the show was, so it wasnt smashed with "zomg bandwagonmarketing"
It wasn't a bad game, but I hate that digimons always die and you have to start over with the training again and again and again
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VampragonLord on April 15, 2010, 03:59:13 pm
they keep [tamer level]% of their stats when they die.  it also helps if you rush the good training upgrades (training manual + vegimons vegies + the bug upgrades to your gym) it really makes it much easier when you start off with 100 in the main stat + like 14 per training session...
and the dying was a bit of an upset when you had just gotten your fav digimon or a really cool one, but you can always build up to something new, and the game just had so much to EXPLORE.  i think that was my favorite part.
you could train almost any stat, and just have decent weight/low care mistakes you would get something fairly strong. and if you really want it to live forever/shortcut the training (do not recommend this, though how you play is up to you) you could always give yourself an infinite supply of that melon that extends life + stat chips. It takes away the fun of training the digimon yourself, but if youre looking for very specific results/too attached to your digimon it IS a route you can take.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 17, 2010, 04:03:13 am
Interesting...

I'd played Digimon World 3, and it was mediocre.  I'll have to take a look at world one.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kagebunji on April 17, 2010, 08:03:41 am
Definitly Star Ocean 2, but for PSP, voice casting and better in general. If you feel like it, play Star Ocean 1 for PSP too, great game, better from SO2 a bit IMO. And play on hardest difficulty avaible, rest is kinda too easy in both SO 1 and 2. Also, You should play Valkyrie Profile (both 1 and 2), VP:Silmeria has a great plot and gameplay, VP:Lenneth is a bit worse, since it is lacking some serious plot.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kaijyuu on April 17, 2010, 03:40:02 pm
VP1 has a fine plot... if you get the A ending. Otherwise the "ending" is comprised of a few text boxes....

As for star ocean 2, I'd suggest downloading an "undub" for it. The localized voice acting sucks in general.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: philsov on April 17, 2010, 04:27:44 pm
Well that's somewhere around 80 points.

Keep the dub vincent!

Quote from: "VampragonLord"digimon world ONE!
i know, i know, ack digimon. But the first digimon world is actually quite good, the gameplay is fairly unique, and it was made BEFORE the show was, so it wasnt smashed with "zomg bandwagonmarketing"

2 was pretty good, too.  It was basically the exact same as Dragon Warrior Monsters, only its all digimon themed.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kagebunji on April 17, 2010, 04:38:12 pm
I do not agree Kaijyu, VA is far better in version for PSP, the one on PSx sucked(Opera *puke*). Yes, VP1's plot begins on ending A, but thereis nothing untill then.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: VincentCraven on April 18, 2010, 07:26:15 am
Quote from: "Kagebunji"Definitly Star Ocean 2, but for PSP, voice casting and better in general. If you feel like it, play Star Ocean 1 for PSP too, great game, better from SO2 a bit IMO. And play on hardest difficulty avaible, rest is kinda too easy in both SO 1 and 2. Also, You should play Valkyrie Profile (both 1 and 2), VP:Silmeria has a great plot and gameplay, VP:Lenneth is a bit worse, since it is lacking some serious plot.

Quote from: "Kaijyuu"VP1 has a fine plot... if you get the A ending. Otherwise the "ending" is comprised of a few text boxes....

As for star ocean 2, I'd suggest downloading an "undub" for it. The localized voice acting sucks in general.

Quote from: "philsov"Well that's somewhere around 80 points.

Keep the dub vincent!

I'll probably end up getting dub cuz that sounds easier to get.  I don't have a PSP, so that's an interesting suggestion that I won't pursue.  I'll know for reference though that Kagebunji claims it's better on PSP.

On the other hand, maybe it's time I got a PSP too? Hmmm, nah probably not.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Kagebunji on April 18, 2010, 03:10:31 pm
If you like Kingdom hearts, then buy PSP, Birth by Sleep will be out in summer(probably), and there are some other games worth playing, Dissidia, Crisis Core, and more. But it is your call.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Edge on April 19, 2010, 02:24:37 am
I recently wrote my top 10 rpg list on another site. http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=115883 (http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=115883)

I think a game you might want to check out is Terranigma. It was made by Square Enix and was one of the last SNES games. It is the 3rd game in the soul blazer series. The combat is not turn based, but you level up and have statistics of str/hp like a rpg. It has one of the deepest storylines ever in a game. The best part of the game is resurrecting the humans, and recreating towns and helping civilizations grow. It was never released in the US, but you should at least look at it if you have never heard of it. It starts a bit slow, but the game becomes pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Dokurider on April 20, 2010, 03:50:54 am
Quote from: "VampragonLord"digimon world ONE!
i know, i know, ack digimon. But the first digimon world is actually quite good, the gameplay is fairly unique, and it was made BEFORE the show was, so it wasnt smashed with "zomg bandwagonmarketing"

Oh, thank god I'm not the only one that thought that was a good game. I put hundreds of hours into that game.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: SilvasRuin on April 26, 2010, 10:05:26 am
Favorite RPG I've played is Lunar 2: Eternal Blue Complete on the PSX.
- Every character's backstory was thoroughly explored.
- Cliches abound in any RPG, but only one portion of the plot felt overly cheesy and/or forced to me.
- It had everything that was good about Lunar 1.
- All five characters were useful.  Each one of them played a role that was significantly different from the others.  The closest to redundancy is the "second" swordsman type character, but considering the main character feels a bit more like a red mage than a straight up warrior, I don't feel the overlap is too bad.
- A strong and balanced mix of drama and humor.
- Very well developed world lore.
- Best genre savvy Xanatos Gambit I have ever seen.


Favorite recent game is a tough choice, partially because there have been very few.  Most recent is Wild ARMs XF.
- The story is fairly predictable.  The only time it caught me off-guard was when I figured out the twist half-way through the game and the characters never did... even in the epilogue.  Basically I couldn't care much less about it's story.  Most of the characters seem to be perpetually stupid anyways.
- Positioning mattered.  Frankly this amazes me as the field was made of hexagons instead of squares.  Somehow they managed to keep the player able to hide the squishy characters behind the front lines if necessary.
- Grinding was rarely necessary and had an enemy you could fight to make it relatively painless.
- Almost every Job/Class/Profession had its uses and advantages.  Same goes for the abilities.  Secutor Equip or whatever it was called is especially valuable because they have the highest raw attack power weapons in the game and is the only way to enable equipping shields.  The closest to useless were Excavator (only good for extreme movement), High Templar (poor stat multipliers, spread too thin, but good skills), and Extremists or whatever they were called.  Only three nearly useless is pretty danged good.  If I didn't have a habit of sticking with the story relevant characters, I would have had a hard choice on which jobs to use.
- The game had great balance.  The enemies generally weren't pushovers.  Many missions had certain methods to turn the tide in your favor if you took the right approach, but it didn't exactly cheapen the experience to do so.  Often the gimmicks made each fight feel more fresh and innovative.  Sadly this ended around the last chapter.  The game became too easy.
- Many of the story character exclusive jobs were fun to use.  That said, Tony isn't worth using anymore as soon as you become able to recruit more characters, the main character's gun sucks and her stats are an example of why "Jack of all trades" sucks in such games, the last story character you get has such dismal speed as to be a liability, and Ragnar has one passive ability that only he can have that allows you to make him virtually immortal.


A bit less recent favorite of mine is Lost Odyssey.
- Deep story.
- Optional side-stories you can read that are deep with philosophy or emotion.
- A strong variety in characters.
- An innovative way to approach the traditional row mechanic that requires significantly more strategy.
- Mages are the way mages always should have been.  They need the support of protective tanks to survive, and their spells, while costly, are actually powerful enough to be worthy of the concept.  Seriously, swinging around a sword should never be as effective as conjuring a massive explosion in your enemy's face.
- Random encounters weren't just a sea of mooks you had to trudge through while dispatching with your weakest attacks.  Unless you power-leveled, you had to take them seriously to survive.  They were also quite rare compared to most of the genre.  Less annoyance and more significance?  Yes please.
- Bosses required critical thinking to beat.  Most were survivable before knowing what you were going up against, but you had to figure out their weak point, vulnerability, or whatever countered them most effectively quickly or risk a game over.  That said, if you did lose, there was usually some way you could go back and prepare a bit to make the battle easier.
- The game gave you a few really awesome and customizable characters in the form of the immortals, but if you tried relying exclusively on these toys, you would wind up screwed.  The immortals' best method of learning abilities was by learning them by fighting beside the mortals that had those abilities.  You get the abilities on the mortals by leveling them up.  While there are several points in the story where your party is dictated to you, the latter parts of the game gave you the choice... yet it still required that you keep shuffling characters around so you could continue to improve the immortals.  Basically this "soft cap" on how long you could effectively use a core party helped vary things up and keep the game from growing stale.
Title: Re: Examples of good RPG games? (for those who are dissatisfied)
Post by: Meow_von_Lazerstein on May 13, 2010, 11:32:45 pm
Suikoden 1&2
Growlanser Generations
Arc the Lad Collection
Xenogears