What I've been trying to say all along

[Archael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60gCWl9_TOs

[Pickle Girl Fanboy]

I love you.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

While being a staunch theist I agree with much of what he says.  I especially think the part about most religious people just following what thier religious "authorities" tell them.  But it's not just the religious that do it.  All of humanity does it.  Many atheists gather behind Richard Dawkins like he's the messiah of reason, but if your read any of his books you'll realize that the man can't string to sentences together without a breakdown of reason.  But people just accept him at his word.  Wether theist, atheist, or agnostic, people need to educate themselves.  We are in the information age, but yet people don't seek out information, they'd rather take someone else's word for it.

Anyway, I wish he wouldn't have put the music over his words so I could hear better.

[Archael]

While being a staunch theist I agree with much of what he says.  I especially think the part about most religious people just following what thier religious "authorities" tell them.  But it's not just the religious that do it.  All of humanity does it.  Many atheists gather behind Richard Dawkins like he's the messiah of reason, but if your read any of his books you'll realize that the man can't string to sentences together without a breakdown of reason.  But people just accept him at his word.  Wether theist, atheist, or agnostic, people need to educate themselves.

I've read 2 RD books, and I fail to see this "breakdown of reason" you're talking about

he makes a lot of good points and they are 100% backed up with reasonable arguments

I don't really think his approach is the right one, though (RD), because his blatant disrespect for the beliefs turns a lot of people off, and no one likes being told they are wrong, especially not in a condescending way

there is a huge problem with the equating you're trying to make here though, and that is that the problems highlighted in the video stem from people gathering behind RELIGION - NOT philosophers, secularists or state / church separatists like RD

the problems with the attitudes and situations mentioned in the video all stem from organized religion, and you simply cannot attribute them to anything else, especially not someone like RD, who actually goes against religion in the first place

Many atheists gather behind Richard Dawkins like he's the messiah of reason, but if your read any of his books you'll realize that the man can't string to sentences together without a breakdown of reason.  But people just accept him at his word.

Until I see someone killing others (for centuries) and blowing up buildings in the name of Richard Dawkins, (a guy who is trying to fight against the division and problems that religion creates in the first place) your comparison is invalid

But it's not just the religious that do it. All of humanity does it

the problem is that religion gives those who lack better judgment a reason and (in their eyes) a justification for their actions - and as mentioned in the video, it has done this MUCH MORE than the good it has propagated

there is no debating the points made in this video, whether you are theist or atheist, the issue brought up is undeniable, and cannot be dismissed with a simple "oh well RD followers have the same sheep mentality as fundamentalist muslims do, so it's OK"

it's not just a "your deity isn't real" issue here, it's more of a "your beliefs are not only false, but they also cause problems for the rest of humanity"

[Mental_Gear]

If I've learned ANYTHING from Playstation Home it's that talking about your faith on the net is a one-way ticket to flameland, so I might as well keep my mouth shut.

[Archael]

from playing FFT you mean, where the church turned out to be a bunch of demons, and the savior was actually possessed by the demon leader

 

[DarthPaul]

Until I see someone killing others (for centuries) and blowing up buildings in the name of Richard Dawkins, (a guy who is trying to fight against the division and problems that religion creates in the first place) your comparison is invalid

His comparison is valid in that he said they follow his words. What would have been invalid would be saying they would kill and die for Richard Dawkins. Unless he meant that, but I don't think he did.

there is no debating the points made in this video, whether you are theist or atheist, the issue brought up is undeniable, and cannot be dismissed with a simple "oh well RD followers have the same sheep mentality as fundamentalist muslims do, so it's OK"

The sad fact here is people will find a way to dispute it by combining scripture or whatever together and call that an argument. It doesn't work but people will still call him out for his statements. It is only human nature to want to cling to your beliefs till they are shattered beyond a shaodow of a doubt.

[DarthPaul]

from playing FFT you mean, where the church turned out to be a bunch of demons, and the savior was actually possessed by the demon leader

 

Best plot twist ever imagined.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

Until I see someone killing others (for centuries) and blowing up buildings in the name of Richard Dawkins, (a guy who is trying to fight against the division and problems that religion creates in the first place) your comparison is invalid

His comparison is valid in that he said they follow his words. What would have been invalid would be saying they would kill and die for Richard Dawkins. Unless he meant that, but I don't think he did.

This.  My point is that people will mindlessly believe someone without doing thier own research.  This may be because they need a sense of belonging, to advance thier own agenda, or just to justify thier preconceived beliefs.

And Arch, totally my bad, the author I was thinking of was Victor Stenger.  The book that I'm mainly thinking of is God: The Failed Hypothesis. The comment of blind following still applies to RD.

the problem is that religion gives those who lack better judgment a reason and (in their eyes) a justification for their actions - and as mentioned in the video, it has done this MUCH MORE than the good it has propagated

Do you measure good and bad by tonnage or with a yard stick?

there is no debating the points made in this video, whether you are theist or atheist, the issue brought up is undeniable, and cannot be dismissed with a simple "oh well RD followers have the same sheep mentality as fundamentalist muslims do, so it's OK"

I didn't debate the points in the video.  I agree that many, many bad things have been done in the name of religion, but my point was that humanity would be a bunch o' dicks with or without religion.  If religion didn't exist, humanity would have found something else to justify thier stupidity.

[tithin]

Voldemort you are quickly becoming the worst person because you keep banging on about religion and linking to terrible videos about the hypocrisy of religion. Quick piece of advice homey, we're all well aware.

[boomkick]

Religion was created for three reasons IMOIMOIMO

1. To control the common people.

2. To create a ideal society.

3. To control the believers of said religion.

I say let anyone who believes religion does make their lives better keep it. I'm not saying it is wrong, but there are some "unreasonable" ideas in religion many of us couldn't solve with any logical/scientific reason.

[Kaijyuu]

What's there to debate? That people manipulate religion for personal gain and/or other stupidity? That's been well known for centuries.

The video doesn't say much more. The main point (above) had one fallacy tacked on: the impossible to prove statistic (religion does more harm than good). Everything else on that topic was on sound logical footing.
 
The semantics, weak analogies and begging the question were all supporting his justification of his little crusade (see I did one myself).


Also, the pictures and music were distracting. I'm not sure the point of either.

[Archael]

Voldemort you are quickly becoming the worst person because you keep banging on about religion and linking to terrible videos about the hypocrisy of religion. Quick piece of advice homey, we're all well aware.

if you were well aware, you would be beating up xtians irl like me

but clearly you are not

so I will continue to post videos sorry bro

[Archael]

I didn't debate the points in the video.  I agree that many, many bad things have been done in the name of religion, but my point was that humanity would be a bunch o' dicks with or without religion.

the vid specifically mentions "a world where unreasonable and un-defendable, bigoted positions simply fall to reason and well-being for society"

meaning; it would be alot harder to justify being a "dick" without religion around to cover your ass

this is true even if substitutes for religion were there or not... it's still a very big point against the presence of religion

you don't justify something negative just because other negatives *might* take it's place, you try to get rid of those negatives regardless

If religion didn't exist, humanity would have found something else to justify thier stupidity.

this is a pretty big claim, and even if it was true, it still doesn't take away the fact that we'd be better off without the extra scapegoat for stupidity (religion). The fewer of them we have (scapegoats, reasons for stupid and/or evil fucks to hide behind) the better, see above

[Xifanie]

The Atheism revolt is part of the new era. There's no reason to just stand there and wait for things to happen. The more atheists revolts, the faster the new era will come.

Theism should be banned from the surface of earth.

[DarthPaul]

1. Create your own religion.
2. Spread some nonsense.
3.????
4. Profit.

[Mental_Gear]

I don't have a problem with someone having different beliefs to me - but I DO have a problem with bigotry as displayed by Zodiac's last post.

[SilvasRuin]

1. Create your own religion.
2. Spread some nonsense.
3.????
4. Profit.

And for proof that this works, look up the shenanigans of  L. Ron Hubbard.

[DarthPaul]

I don't have a problem with Zodiac's bigotry because theism will be gone in a century or two.

I don't think it will be banned either, just people will come to realize that creationism just sounds to hooky.

This is just a speculative theory mind you.

Also if there is a god then we were wrong who cares. I cannot believe in a benevolent god existing in the same realm as hell.

[Kuraudo Sutoraifu]

I don't think it will be banned either, just people will come to realize that creationism just sounds to hooky.

"Nothing asploded and made the universe" sounds just as hooky as "someone made nothing asplode and made the universe".

Also if there is a St. Ajora then we were wrong who cares. I cannot believe in a benevolent St. Ajora existing in the same realm as hell.

Just what exactly is your perception of hell?  I'm always curious about what people think hell is.  I always think it's wierd when people think it's where the devil lives or something like that.  People have strange thoughts on heaven, too, like humans becoming angels when they die or stuff like that.

you don't justify something negative just because other negatives *might* take it's place

Have I tried to justify anything?  I don't think I have.  I'm pretty sure I've just said that humanity will do bad things, and it's not contingent upon the presence of religion.  In fact, I've agreed that people use religion to be dicks.  I am saying that humanity's malevolence is rooted in humanity, not religion.  And if you believe religion was created by man, then you should agree.  Because then religion is just a branch off of the ole' humanity tree.