Final Fantasy Hacktics

General => Archives => Mercenaries => Topic started by: LastingDawn on December 08, 2008, 07:36:29 pm

Title: Monk Rehaul Job Discussion (Rad/Ramza Skillset Updated!)
Post by: LastingDawn on December 08, 2008, 07:36:29 pm
Monks,  Master's of internal energy.

August 22nd, 2010

The Monk's in Mercenaries are... quite varied depending on certain people's thoughts. They have lost Martial Arts (probably only being to be given to a few bosses) but have gained Two Swords innate and the ability to equip Claws (Hello Yang!) this will make their class new and fresh, at least that's the plan, here's the nearly finalized Skillset.

Thanks goes to Philsov and Mav (and many others whose names I can't recall for the original skill ideas)for these wonderful skills!


QuoteMonk - Master of Internal Energy, also the starting point for all physical-ish jobs.  If you wanna know the basics, you start with yourself.  

Iconic skills:
Searing Salvation - clears the soul of impurities with holy fire.  Deals 15% HP damage, able to target self and allies.  (Self-only cleanse is worthless for most of the big ones, we need function here)
Chakra - melee-range, PA-based spirit exhertion damage!
(Secret Skill) - I don't think Demi Fist is fitting for the class, but we'll go back to these later.

Ramza:
Golden Hand - 5 range linear, instant, no MP - cancels Charging and Performing
Ogre Run - 2 range linear, instant, no MP - Earth ele damage + haste cancel proc.
Wave Fist - 2 range, single target.  Like the old one, only shorter range.
Pressure Point - PA*X (or MA*X?) damage with a 25% chance to Don't Act target.  1 range, 1-3CTR.
Meditate - Self-only regen, 100%.
Grid - Self only defend + protect

Rad:
Mage Bane Fist - melee range, small charge time, no MP - 25% MP damage
Turning Gust - self-AoE, instant, no MP.  - no ele damage + Float/Regen/Faith cancel proc.
Consuming Fist - PA-based damage with recoil.  2 range, 1 AoE.
Radiant Claw - 4 range, single target, CT, MP - artillery shot
Tranquility - Enemy-only.  Dispells all status effects on the user.  PA+X% success rate.
Brace - Self only defend + shell

~

QuoteMonk's Unique Weaponry, Claws[/size]

CLAWS:              [(PA / 2) * PA ]  
                   Range 1v2 (from below) / 1v3 (from above)
                   YES Two Swords
                   NO Two Hands
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
## NAME               WP  Ev  COST   E.LV  EFFECTS
-- --------------     --  --  -----  ----  --------------------------------------
30 Fire Claw          0   00  1500   10   PA + 1, Half: Fire, Fire Elemental

31 Bone Claw          0   20  4000   16   Always: Undead, Add: Undead, Strengthen: Dark, Dark Elemental

32 Climbing Claw      0   25  6500   22   MA + 1, Jump + 3 Add: Slow, Ice Elemental

73 *6 Survivor        0   00  10000  32   Immune: Crystal, Treasure

74 *6 White Fang      0   00  60000  44   100% Cancel: All Status Ailments

5D *8 Fabul's Finest  0   10  10    (50)  Sp + 1, Initial: Haste, Strengthen Lightning, Lightning Elemental, Add: Confusion
-------

Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 08, 2008, 07:57:03 pm
Let him use staves (if you still have them) and maybe make them a martial artist (Not fists, weapons and thats his name, Martial Artist) (sad name... i know).
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 08, 2008, 08:03:48 pm
I think you mean Sticks. Staves are Priest's staff weapons.

Uh...yeah, I'll try and think about this while at work, but like you said, FFT Monk is horribly broken which is why I made him enemy-only.

I'm assuming you want them to stay martial artist-esque like how boomkick said, right?
Title:
Post by: Cheetah on December 08, 2008, 08:08:58 pm
How are they horrible broken exactly?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 08, 2008, 08:16:47 pm
They have a skillset which emphasizes Everything, Healing, Removing Status, Recovering MP! Long Range physical attacks, and multi hit techniques, all at the cost of... 0 MP. That's what I would call broken, anyhow
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 08, 2008, 08:32:25 pm
Yup i meant sticks, srry about that.

They area meant to be complete physical fighters, except for the occasional magic stick (like the Monkey King in Chinese mythology).
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 08, 2008, 08:35:57 pm
Sticks are based on MA, and we already have enough PA-MA, fighters around. therefore it probably wouldn't be too useful for there to be another.
Title:
Post by: Cheetah on December 08, 2008, 10:26:57 pm
Okay that is what I thought on the monk. I wouldn't recommend making many changes to them till you see how they stack up against all the new jobs you are introducing. Though if you want to completely rework the role of the class I guess that would be something different.
Title:
Post by: DarthPaul on December 08, 2008, 10:40:04 pm
Uh the damned have you ever heard of a "quarter staff" not to argue but that is a monk/ martial artist type weapon not priestly but anyway maybe just putting in mp costs would even out the whole brokenness of the class.
Title:
Post by: Disco_Peach on December 08, 2008, 11:17:21 pm
Yeah Monks were too uber boken. That's why I toned them down in my hack. Merely gave them a couple of strategic moves. I also let them keep a revival spell, just to spice them up a bit. My "Monk" class (Fighter) is actually a Lv2 job class along with the Knight. That's how much I toned it down. I say give yours simple spells that are always useful no matter the level they're in or the situation they're in.
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2008, 02:50:40 am
Quote from: "darthpaul"Uh the damned have you ever heard of a "quarter staff" not to argue but that is a monk/ martial artist type weapon not priestly.

Yes, darthpaul, I know what a quarter staff is. I wasn't saying that Monks can't use Bo Staffs, I was saying that in-game Staves are more like walking canes.

Anyway, I did some thinking while I had to freaking walk to my home from work again and I had an idea that was somewhat triggered by the Cantor thread before this: What if you combined Monks and Dancers (since Dancers also seem to get nuked in everyone else's patch)?

Now now, here me out. I'm not saying give the Monks more range since that's the one thing they don't have. Earth Slash certainly needs to go and stay gone, whether it's evadable or not, as do Revive, Stigma Magic, and maybe Chakra.

What I mean is a thematic combination of the two. Whereas Cantors had Hymns that focused on helping others, Monks (who may well need a name change) would focus on themselves through Body Control [note: this is just what I'm generally calling the abilities I'm going to now suggest; I am not suggesting, however, that this would be the actual skill set name].

A large part of their techniques would focus on themselves, such as ridding themselves of status and such--I'm weary of stat-boosts, but perhaps you could make it work:



 Among those would remain some of the lesser used Monk skills such as Secret Fist, Wave Fist (well, okay, that's well-used and one needs to be nerfed), Repeating Fist and maybe even Spin Fist (haha...no); hell, maybe you could even have a really nerfed Chakra that applied only to the self, especially since Detoxify is basically a lesser Stigma Magic. (Way lesser, but still a lesser version.) I guess even more skills could be gleaned from whatever type of equipment you had, if any.***


* Note: This is not meant to be an in-game description, none of these are.
** No, I don't like this one, but I figured I would post the ones that weren't extremely repetitive.
*** For the record, I think part of the "brokenness" is the support skill "Martial Arts" in and of itself, so I'm curious as to how you are going to tackle that.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 09, 2008, 10:54:57 am
Hmm... we already have a healer, and that is the cantor. I was thinking that the new monk should not have any sort of healing capability (chakra, stigma, and the like).

i wanted him to focus on physical attacks and, if you read my post before, based of the Monkey King in chinese mythology where his weapon is the source of all of most of his strength.

The point is that the new class would have something like this is skills.

Long stick- I dont know the official name, but basically this skill enables his stick to grow longer (pun not intended) and hit targets farther.
Furious Blows- Like repeating fist, both in looks and damage wise.
Stun Blow- Deals meager damage while inflicting either Don't Ace, or Don't Move.
Spiritual Frenzy- Reduces his own Hp by half and goes Berserk.

Something like that
Title:
Post by: DarthPaul on December 09, 2008, 11:48:02 am
Quote from: "The Damned"Yes, darthpaul, I know what a quarter staff is. I wasn't saying that Monks can't use Bo Staffs, I was saying that in-game Staves are more like walking canes.



Meh I took what you said the wrong way then.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 11:51:03 am
Staff discussion needs to die folks. Give these guys sticks. Sticks look like battle rods, like The Damned said. I mean, that's what they are.

Get rid of Martial Arts.

BOF3 Relevance Time. Pick any you like & modify. (MP Costs on these)

1) Disembowel - Fatal Blow. (Needs a flashy animation.) Melee Range, super inaccurate, ~ PA+10% innacurate. Vertical 0, Evadeable, HP = 1.

2) Kyrie - Destroys Undead.

3) Mighty Chop - Attack vs one. Ignores defense. (Knockback type damage like Worker 8, ignores Protect, DEF UP, etc.)

4) Flying Kick - Damage based on Speed. (Jump animation, lands immediately unlike dragoons', way shorter range.)

5) Meditation - Persevering, interruptable, heals self HP 33% per round. (Only healing move they're gonna get.)

6) Sacrifice - Basically a single target Self-Destruct. Shock damage (Caster MaxHP - Caster CurHP) to target, caster dies. Can Miss.
Title:
Post by: Zuka on December 09, 2008, 03:08:21 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"They have a skillset which emphasizes Everything, Healing, Removing Status, Recovering MP! Long Range physical attacks, and multi hit techniques, all at the cost of... 0 MP. That's what I would call broken, anyhow

While i agree with you in some respects, I totally disagree in many others, for example, using anything as a support ability besides "Martial Arts" means those monk skills are so weak they're basically useless, this provides the task of actually coming up with a way to make those skills strong enough to actually be useful on characters such as an arbalist, who, without his crossbows is essentially useless... Not to mention, a majority of the monks abilities are limited in vertical and horizontal reach, to the extent that the monk, with his poor speed and movement is really only self-sufficient, and not a good party support character. I've always felt that there should be other classes with access to Chakra, considering that without it, an ether, or dark sword, you are NOT restoring MP (I say this cause the battle should be over before anyone is a crystal if you're playing right) I think the monk, if anything, is under balanced, and should have a better reach of abilities. Though I do think that his physical attack power makes up for a lot, the simple fact is that there are 5 useful monk skills (not including, support, reactionary, and movement abilities) Wave fist, Earth Slash, Chakra, Stigma magic, and Revive. The later three of-course can only be used on even terrain, and within one square of the target, thereby limiting them EXTREMELY. Other monk skills are unpredictable and inacurate, they have almost no range, and are an insult to the monk's Physical Attack potential, i mean, spin fist is a joke, and secret fist is a waste of time when in 3 turns a monk could just slaughter you. To boot, there are no actual multi-hit techniques in the monk job, just one that's named as though it is multi-hit, it's really just a random damage that is a waste of time to actually use. (repeating fist)

However, this is of-course, my personal opinion, I'm a huge fan of the monk, but they really aren't cut out to be what you're lead to believe they can be.

||EDIT|| WTF was I thiking?!?!?!
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 03:34:13 pm
Quote from: "Zuka"However, this is of-course, my personal opinion,


I disagreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee





Let's begin.

Bare Fists are boostable by Martial Arts, PA, AND Brave.

A 97 Brave Monk can 1 shot anything it wants. And it can do this from the beginning of the game, no uber weapons required.


97 Brave Monk = Auto-800-999 damage.

Two Swords it and it's 1600++ damage. Concentrate that and it's 800-999 100% accurate damage.

So naturally, you move on to:

97 Brave Ninja w/ MA

Earth Slash = Instant FREE 760+ 100% 8 panel range attack, you don't even need Concentrate for it to be 100%. So just stack Earth Clothes + Bracer.

Or if you really want a 1 shotter 8 panel range cannon, stay in Monk Job, Earth Clothes, Bracer, AND Attack UP. Earth Slash will take care of the 100% accuracy and the 8 panel range.



Wave Fist + MA = Instant FREE 3 range + 3 Vert Tol. attack. Boostable by Attack UP or Concentrate.


That's all you need to know.


I don't even need to talk about the bonus utility that Chakra or Revive provide. Those are just icing on the cake.


Yes, you do need Martial Arts for the Monk Skills to be worth a damn. The problem here is that Monks have it Innate (not to mention Martial Arts can be used outside of the Monk Job), therefor making their offensive skills boostable by a great number of other combinations.

When you look at a job and try to judge it, you have to look at the entire thing, not just pretend like requiring Martial Arts to be broken makes it any less broken. :shock:  :shock:
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 09, 2008, 04:55:48 pm
Quote from: "Zuka"
Quote from: "LastingDawn"They have a skillset which emphasizes Everything, Healing, Removing Status, Recovering MP! Long Range physical attacks, and multi hit techniques, all at the cost of... 0 MP. That's what I would call broken, anyhow

While i agree with you in some respects, I totally disagree in many others, for example, using anything as a support ability besides "Martial Arts" means those monk skills are so weak they're basically useless, this provides the task of actually coming up with a way to make those skills strong enough to actually be useful on characters such as an arbalist, who, without his crossbows is essentially useless... Not to mention, a majority of the monks abilities are limited in vertical and horizontal reach, to the extent that the monk, with his poor speed and movement is really only self-sufficient, and not a good party support character. I've always felt that there should be other classes with access to Chakra, considering that without it, an ether, or dark sword, you are NOT restoring MP (I say this cause the battle should be over before anyone is a crystal if you're playing right) I think the monk, if anything, is under balanced, and should have a better reach of abilities. Though I do think that his physical attack power makes up for a lot, the simple fact is that there are 5 useful monk skills (not including, support, reactionary, and movement abilities) Wave fist, Earth Slash, Chakra, Stigma magic, and Revive. The later three of-course can only be used on even terrain, and within one square of the target, thereby limiting them EXTREMELY. Other monk skills are unpredictable and inacurate, they have almost no range, and are an insult to the monk's Physical Attack potential, i mean, spin fist is a joke, and secret fist is a waste of time when in 3 turns a monk could just slaughter you. To boot, there are no actual multi-hit techniques in the monk job, just one that's named as though it is multi-hit, it's really just a random damage that is a waste of time to actually use. (repeating fist)

However, this is of-course, my personal opinion, I'm a huge fan of the monk, but they really aren't cut out to be what you're lead to believe they can be.

 I took the time to read this and I can notice at least a Dozen inconsistencies...

Quotefor example, using anything as a support ability besides "Martial Arts" means those monk skills are so weak they're basically useless, this provides the task of actually coming up with a way to make those skills strong enough to actually be useful on characters such as an arbalist, who, without his crossbows is essentially useless...

Voldemort has done a well enough job of disproving that.

QuoteNot to mention, a majority of the monks abilities are limited in vertical and horizontal reach, to the extent that the monk, with his poor speed and movement is really only self-sufficient, and not a good party support character. I've always felt that there should be other classes with access to Chakra, considering that without it, an ether, or dark sword, you are NOT restoring MP (I say this cause the battle should be over before anyone is a crystal if you're playing right)

As does every normal ability except Geomancy, which is not the topic of discussion at the moment. Also he is the Master of Support, he cures more things then Esuna, heals HP and MP At the Same Time, to multiple people, and the ability to Revive, dead units. He has taken the role of White Mage and improved upon it, sure he doesn't have their Status, but that is all he lacks. Monk is the quintessential perfect leader. With a move that can hit across the field, hitting multiple opponents, a ranged physical attack, a move to restore MP, a move to restore HP, and Revive. What does any normal class have to compare to that?

QuoteI think the monk, if anything, is under balanced, and should have a better reach of abilities. Though I do think that his physical attack power makes up for a lot, the simple fact is that there are 5 useful monk skills (not including, support, reactionary, and movement abilities) Wave fist, Earth Slash, Chakra, Stigma magic, and Revive. The later three of-course can only be used on even terrain, and within one square of the target, thereby limiting them EXTREMELY. Other monk skills are unpredictable and inacurate, they have almost no range, and are an insult to the monk's Physical Attack potential, i mean, spin fist is a joke, and secret fist is a waste of time when in 3 turns a monk could just slaughter you. To boot, there are no actual multi-hit techniques in the monk job, just one that's named as though it is multi-hit, it's really just a random damage that is a waste of time to actually use. (repeating fist)

Spin Fist is a Joke yes, beyond that though, every other move has it's purpose (except Secret Fist) and they have 5 of 7 useful moves. For a skillset to retain it's near complete use the whole game is very rare, but Monk manages to do that, with it's all encompassing abilities. Five of his abilities are never outweighed as the game goes on. Which is how it should be, but his abilities are simply too powerful.
-------------------------------------------------------------


On Topic - Yes, The Damned, I'd like the monk to have no healing capabilities, also the Stick idea sounds good, but like many other things will require an ASM hack, since the power of sticks are based on MA. That would need changed to PA.

Also Voldemort, quite great ideas! Along with you Boombkick, they each seem like fair ideas to apply.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 09, 2008, 05:26:41 pm
I can NEARLY solo most of the story line battles with monk back in vanilla because of what i had on him (Ramza). Just max his brave and push his faith all the way down to innocence. He just kills with fists (double).

When i say nearly i say about 60%. Chakra is a lifesaver.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 05:35:37 pm
ya chakra's pretty damn good.. especially when you tank with it (chakra, wait.. chakra.. wait) and the surrounding people just sit there picking things off
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2008, 07:30:37 pm
Although we're finally getting on topic, I've a question that I feel is related (or at least may be): If we can know, then you mind telling us what you plan to do with Hessian, LastingDawn?

I'm personally weary to suggest physical attacks/things that might overlap with that class, which I feel is slated to be the prime physical class given that it's one of the last ones you open and its opposite is Red Mage.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 07:34:57 pm
personally, I have zero clue what LD plans to do with Hessian, or what it's supposed to do
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 09, 2008, 08:18:27 pm
Well the plan is basically a "super mercenary, a much advanced version of Ramza's normal class (without the steal abilities), to be honest, I'm unsure of what to do with it, while Red Mage is the only mage to equip Armor, it might be smart to base something off of an opposite of Red Mage, but we'll get to that eventually.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 08:20:07 pm
What would be the opposite of Red Mage?

Physical skill sampler job?
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2008, 09:36:29 pm
A Blue Mage is the opposite of a Red Mage, duh.  :P

(Technically I'm correct despite initially putting that as a joke.)

Anyway, I guess the end classes make sense. I mean, I know what the word Hessian refers to and since the whole gist of this is Mercenaries, I should have guessed it was Ramza's SSJ form and that Red Mage was Apprentice Rad's SSJ form.

Eye r stopid.

The fact that Voldemort7 borrowed from BOF3 gives me an idea that I had already used like with the Treasure. Give me an hour....[/cryptic]


Code Breaker EDIT: Okay, well that didn't take an hour. Anyway, seeing the whole "Soul" mechanic thing in Sentinal Blade's patch over the weekend reminded me that Saga Frontier (and probably the whole Saga Series) gets no love, so I thought that if Voldemort7 could borrow from BoF3, that I could borrow from a similarly awesome game.

All of these are meant to be Range: 1, Effect Area: 0 attack, except One-Inch Punch, which is a nerfed Wave Fist, and Orge Run, which is a nerfed Earth Slash. All of these are evadable except maybe Air Throw. [Once again, anything that follows is not meant to be an in-game description.]

Air Throw: A physical damage throwing that throws the enemy into the air. It will miss Floating enemies. (Earth elemental.)

Karate Chop: A simple karate chop to the temple, if well-applied, can cause Blindness. (Smallest damage of all these abilities simply because it tries to add one of the negative statuses that most beneficial to someone in close, unless you're not going to allow Monks to wear Mantles.)

Crush Beat: A simple one-two punch that attempts to always hit twice. (Too bad it has to be based on MA at this point....)

Rotation Kick: A grandoise over-the-head forward flip kick that attempts to ground all enemies, whether or not they are airborne. (Cancel: Float.)

Gold Hand: One's hand glows with an eerie golden light that attempts to disrupt the mind through either pain or more mystic sense of things. (Cancels: Charging and Performing.)

Orge Run: A wave of sand/dirt/mud is sent at the enemy that attempts to knock them off their feet or otherwise enmire them. (Earth Elemental, Cancels: Haste, Range: 2, Linear Attack)

Last Shot: An improved Secret Fist that attempts to add Death Sentence, Poison and Haste. (Well, maybe not Haste. Regardless, this should do no damage. It should just have a higher hit rate [and maybe not be MA-based so that Wizard's with their new rods can't use a lot better than Monks].)

One-Inch Punch: The Monk punches with such speed and controlled force that air pressure hits the enemy instead of his own fist. (Wind Elemental. Nerfed damage. Range: 2. I was also going to suggest maybe using Throw Stone/Dash's formula, but then I remembered that that formula doesn't take whatever elemental you give it. Lame.)


So that's eight technique on of the high possibility that if they stay, they'll probably still have Martial Arts in some capacity.

Regardless, I would say that since they're fighters, they should probably have Innate Defend. (No, not Innate Defending like Warders. I mean the option to use "Defend".)

Anyway, I hope this would help us focus on a more-straightforward Monk that's only relatively great at attacking rather than fucking godlike at it and then still amazing at everything else (as long as verticals are taken into account).
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 09, 2008, 11:14:08 pm
The monk class can vary greatly depending on what you are thinking of, such as a beatdown monk and a spiritual monk. The Zuka, Voldemort and LD owned your ass. Anyways...

Exorcise: Attempts to send the living dead into their final resting place, PA+10% chance to crystalize dead undead units.

Cleasing Ritual: Attempts to remove all evil aura on target, Attacks Target, PA+MA% chance to cure Poison, Blind, Don't Act, Don't Move, Oil, Death Sentence

Meditation: Attempts to clean the monk's soul, clearing himself of all impurities, Removes ALL Status Effects on Monk, Adds Sleep

Soul Strike: Attacks the target's soul, ignoring defences. Ignores Defence Up/Protect PA+30% Accurate

Spirit's Strength: PA+2, User loses 10% Max HP

Stone Splitting Punch: 3 Range attack, Wave Fist Formula, PA+50% Accurate

Spirit Split: Attempts to seperate a unit's spirit from their body, 5% Add Dead, 10% Add Stop, 1 Range

First Aid: Heals target, 1 Range, heals 5-25% Hp

This is a different interpretation of a monk, hope this might help.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 11:25:46 pm
The Damned I usually love your ideas but the only one I like out of your post this time is Death Sentence + Haste + Poison

the rest are mmmehhh

however the more ideas the better the final skillset will be   :oops:  :oops:  :oops:  :cry:
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2008, 11:43:08 pm
If there's a final skillset at this point; I personally don't like my skillset either, but I was trying to not focus to heavily on status and just straight damage with some type of option. (That and trying to stick within the current graphics in the game, although I have no idea what Air Throw would look like since you can't really animate the affected sprite after outside of the "damaged" affect. But I digress yet again.)

It may well just be easier for LastingDawn to just get rid of Monk and eitehr replace it or just focus on the other classes for now considering he himself is currently unsure what Monks should do; just that vanilla monks are broken.

I think my own lack of enthuaism for Monk is showing.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 09, 2008, 11:45:48 pm
QuoteIf there's a final skillset at this point;

err... wtf

 there is no final skillset , just the idea that LD wants to replace the job

that's what we're trying to come up with


QuoteIt may well just be easier for LastingDawn to just get rid of Monk and eitehr replace it or just focus on the other classes for now considering he himself is currently sure what Monks should do; just that vanilla monks are broken.

it's easy as pie to re purpose the job and turn it into something else altogether

why get rid of it?



you're weird
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 09, 2008, 11:49:10 pm
Quote from: "Voldemort7"you're weird

You're saying that like it's news or something.

Anyway, I say if it's broken, there's no reason to "fix it". Just buy a new one if possible and focus on something else, at least for now.

I do agree that it would be rather easy to repurpose it since Punch Art isn't bitchy like Item (grr...), but LastingDawn himself said that he wasn't really sure what to do with Monk. We kind of need some direction to go on....

P.S. Personally, I got the impression that LastingDawn just wanted to change/nerf the Monk class given that name hasn't changed like all the other jobs (sans Archer and, uh, Knight?), but that may just be me misunderstanding things.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 09, 2008, 11:59:19 pm
Great ideas, everyone! Unfortunately... most of the ideas you suggested aren't possible PX, EXorcise is, Cleansing Ritual doesn't have that formula in an attempt to create. A status can't remove and add, I don't think any amount of ASM hacking can help that. to be honest... I'm not even sure how to make Voldemort's "ignore defense" move work. Spirit's Strength is another impossibility, no way to take away your Max HP in a battle.

Stone Splitting is possible,

Spirit Split would have to be 25% on each.

First Aid doesn't really... fit a monk, nothing... monk like about it.
----------------------------------------------

Air Throw, quite an interesting idea. The animation for it is what... worries me.

Karate Chop - While Blind is truly effective up-close, it's quite a low tiered status, if it were a normal damage move while applying Darkness, that could work... hmm... I'll have to come back to that.


Crush Beat - Aie, if only it didn't have to be based on MA... then again, one MA move isn't too bad, but it would have to be more... magically inclined.

Rotation Kick, would that only affect floating units? As in, a move comparable to Death that disables the status and hurts them X%?

Golden Hand - very interesting description... I like the move.

?Ogre? Run - Very creative! A thing that cancels Haste that isn't slow is quite a nice addition.

Last Shot - Hold that thought, I actually have a thought to make Death Sentence usable, but it will probably be in another set.

One Inch Punch is a weakened Wave Fist, yes. Hard to say what I'll do with that...
---------------------------------------------------

1) Disembowel is an interesting move, I can see that going to Blansch as well for some reason...

2) Kyrie - very nice name, Undead are really getting bounced around here... hard to say if I want another "kill undead" move.

3) Mighty Chop - I can't quite understand how that's done... maybe you know?

4) Flying Kick - I like the thought, a move based on Speed is pretty inventive in itself.

5) Meditation - seems like it will need quite a bit of a charge time/

6) Sacrifice - An... odd move, a one hit Self Destruct? Sure it shouldn't add
a status or anything...? I mean, Archer's have Doom Archer which has a chance to add Confusion, Self Destruct on the Blue Mage is well... Self Destruct. Martyr might a way into the game again, not sure yet.
----------------------------------------

Ah well allow me to make my intentions more clear, I really like the idea of a Monk that uses Staves and/or his Bare Fists. I think Tactics just made them too... unlike Monks. My own personal ideas for this...

 I love Yang from FF4, and if only his skillset could be mimiced... the only thing we can even partially do is "kick" which could get out of hand. Brace and Boost are unavailable in Tactics unfortunately, though I really like both of them as ideas... but alas, I doubt anything like that can be done.

So, I'm looking for something more intune with the "classic Monk" of FF lore, if possible. The sticks are good ideas though, since only Oracles can equip them currently, that would need a formula change though...
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 10, 2008, 12:30:03 am
First and foremost, I'm retarded for not linking to the Monk page on FFCompendium earlier. Hell, I didn't even think about it. (http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/monk.shtml)

Everyone click that, especially if they don't know about Yang--I myself have never played FF4. (And, no, I'm not sure how to make that website fit fully in a screen without having to scroll back and forth annoyingly.)

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Air Throw, quite an interesting idea. The animation for it is what... worries me.

Yeah.

QuoteKarate Chop - While Blind is truly effective up-close, it's quite a low tiered status, if it were a normal damage move while applying Darkness, that could work... hmm... I'll have to come back to that.

Personally, I'd rather go with lesser damage just to be "safe", even if we're not worrying about numbers.


QuoteCrush Beat - Aie, if only it didn't have to be based on MA... then again, one MA move isn't too bad, but it would have to be more... magically inclined.

How so? Like elemental? (Crush Beat looks rather like an explosion in Saga Frontier.)

More Status interaction? The only appropriate thing I could think of would destroying/crushing barriers, but Crumble already does that (or will do that) for Warder.

Hell, there's actually a lot in the Warder thread that could maybe used for Monks after there are leftovers.

QuoteRotation Kick, would that only affect floating units? As in, a move comparable to Death that disables the status and hurts them X%?

No. It's just a regular attack with the ability to Cancel Float. I'd rather above using the Death formula for much since a)it relies on MA and b)it always heals Undead.

Most physical attacks should do neither of those things if so possible.

QuoteGolden Hand - very interesting description... I like the move.

Thanks much. I always did like that attack in-game.

Quote?Ogre? Run - Very creative! A thing that cancels Haste that isn't slow is quite a nice addition.

Yeah...I don't know where the "Orge" part comes from either.

And, yeah, I'm trying not to impede on Time Mage's territory since it currently sucks ass outside of Haste and Slow, so alternatives to Slow that aren't as proactive are what I try to focus on personally.

QuoteLast Shot - Hold that thought, I actually have a thought to make Death Sentence usable, but it will probably be in another set.

Ah. Well, I should have figured when the Killer Bee thing was rejected.

So noted.


I'm going to see if I can try and find a video of the Saga Frontier techniques, but it probably doesn't (readily) exist.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 10, 2008, 01:37:37 am
Oh yeah now we are talking. Yang eh?

SPRITE CHANGE!!!! MAKE EM BALD, PONYTAIL CHINESE STYLE, NO SHIRT!!!

NO STICKS, CLAWS ONLY, TWO SWORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kick: 1 Range, 2 Area, 0/1 V, Splits damage evenly between targets

CHARGE +5!!!!!!!!!

Grid adds defense right? I never used it and i never used Yang after i PLeveled Cecil to 50? Maybe add defend or something.

Getting these claws straight off FF IX's Red Head Amarant

Cat's Claws
Buy: 4000 Sell: 2000 Attack Power: 23[yeah... lower these or something] Notes: Ordinary claws used for combat. Add St: None Abilities: Chakra (30); Counter (240)
Poison Claws
Buy: 5000 Sell: 2500 Attack Power: 33 Notes: Combat knuckles. Add St: Poison
Mythril Claws:
Buy: 6500 Sell: 3250 Attack Power: 39
Kaiser Knuckles
Buy: 18000 Sell: 9000 Attack Power: 75 Notes: Claws with a wind spirit dwelling inside. Elem-Atk: Wind
Avenger
Buy: 16000 Sell: 8000 Attack Power: 70 Notes: Powerful claws that can kill opponents with one hit. Add St: Death Blow

From FF IV Yang:
Fire Claws/Ice Claws/Thunder Claws: Stronger than poison but weaker than mythril i suppose

Custom Claws:
Moogle Claws: Strong as Cat's Claws, Add: Charm/Confusion
Chocobo Claws: Strong as Cat's Claws, Add: Haste

All I can think of now, good night and have a pleasant tomorrow!

EDIT: Hehe Blow-up post
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 10, 2008, 01:44:54 am
You could make a bracer type weapon, but make it the punching animation?
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 10, 2008, 02:28:31 am
Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"NO STICKS, CLAWS ONLY, FINAL DESTINATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...That's all I have to say at the moment.

*goes to bed*
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 10, 2008, 07:58:32 am
As Boomkick points out, Claws are a very difficult thing to create, especially because one of the... wait actually... hmm... we might be able to use the bag animations for this. I'll try something when I get home from work, if Claws can work, then great! If they can't... well... we can always go with bracer weapons. Now back to moves...

---------------------

Crush Beat, ah, what I meant was a more... magical sounding name is all, since Crush Beat doesn't sound too... magical.

Rotation Kick - hmm, what formula would you suggest for this and Karate Chop?
Title:
Post by: Zuka on December 10, 2008, 11:22:58 am
allright, well, I didn't intend to stir up such a problem among the group and throw everyone off topic, my feelings are simply that a monk, while being a good rounded character, is not OVER powered, I can think of more times that buying revive was a waste of JP than when it was useful... all not the point, I have a couple Ideas for a new class, or at least a couple new abilities...

Elemental Sword: Using effect from any appropriate black magic (I would likely use the lvl 1's) with the formula PA+WP/*MA for a sort of Red Mage character (You remember them, decent MA, decent PA, not excelling at either) Reminiscent of FFIX's magic sword abilities.

not to mention, you could easily fix how broken the monk is by changing the formula of Chakra to heal with MA, or the same for revive, you could even change their earth slash or wave fist to MA and they would be super nerfed right there, just an Idea, though i respect all of your opinions and still lean toward dissagreement with you... I think you're all very knowledgeable about the game, but clearly wer have different play styles, which I cannot and will not hold against you... heck, that's why I joined this forum...

(edit): Too early in the morning, I thought I was in the new classes topic, sorry everyone.
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 10, 2008, 11:42:54 am
Quote from: "Zuka"allright, well, I didn't intend to stir up such a problem among the group and throw everyone off topic, my feelings are simply that a monk, while being a good rounded character, is not OVER powered, I can think of more times that buying revive was a waste of JP than when it was useful....


If you think Revive was a waste of JP because of it's silly little vert. tol limitation you are not seeing the big picture of WHY the skillset is fucking amazing. As I explained in my previous post, Earth Slash and Wave Fist alone are borderline broken ON THEIR OWN, they don't even need Reviva OR Chakra present to be an amazing skillset.




Quotenot to mention, you could easily fix how broken the monk is by changing the formula of Chakra to heal with MA, or the same for revive, you could even change their earth slash or wave fist to MA and they would be super nerfed right there, just an Idea,

I am getting the notion that you do not have much understanding of what we are capable of modifying, or how internal FFT skill mechanics work...

I am almost sure at this point that Martial Arts is out of Mercenaries, this new job won't need it for it's skills to be good

you are forgetting LD has complete control over that formulas these skills will use... they won't need Martial Arts to function if he doesn't want them to



Quotethough i respect all of your opinions and still lean toward dissagreement with you... I think you're all very knowledgeable about the game, but clearly wer have different play styles, which I cannot and will not hold against you... heck, that's why I joined this forum...



leaning toward disagreement is OK, but some of the reasons you post for calling Monk's Skillset sub-par are very misinformed...

the skillset won't become broken for someone who doesn't know how to maximize it,, but this mod (hell, most people who play mods) are already very familiar with game mechanics

you can be sure they're gonna be rockin full monk PA + Earth Slash + Earth Clothes + Attack Up if they can get their hands on something equivalent to it

I know I would
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 10, 2008, 12:27:24 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Crush Beat, ah, what I meant was a more... magical sounding name is all, since Crush Beat doesn't sound too... magical.

Rotation Kick - hmm, what formula would you suggest for this and Karate Chop?

Oh, the names aren't really important--they're all just taken directly from the Saga Frontier moves that inspired them; I would never name something Orge Run.

As for formulas, well, currently the PA-based ones suck to put it plainly. The only (decent) one I see that actually adds Status is 2D, which would work for Rotation Kick...at least until you add Claws/weapons into the mix, then it would probably come rather strong even without claws--although I just got an idea for something else....

I'm not sure I want to use 2D for Karate Chop, but there's honestly NOTHING else (that isn't followed by NS or has some MA in it) outside of the Weapons formulas, which I've had trouble with personally--you could maybe use that since you seem to have a working version of Beso Toxico already (which I haven't been able to replicate).

Crap, this reminds that I probably didn't add the Formulas to the Wiki like I had meant to.

Wiki EDIT (heh): Okay, I edited in the Formulas on the Wiki...except for some reason it won't remember me, so I didn't do under my forum name. Damn. I'll have to fix that later.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 23, 2008, 03:07:20 pm
LD if your going for claws, then maybe there should be effects for claws, like Voldemort did with daggers in v1.3

These are just suggestions, they are "or":
-Extra Attacks
-Extra Speed
-Status Effects (both beneficial/negative, both inflicting and self inflicting)

Some examples:

Claw- Regular claw, useful for tearing the living crap out of something.
WP- 8
WEv- 20
Other- +1 Speed

Bronze Claw- Regular claw reinforced with bronze.
WP- 9
WEv- 20
Other- +1 PA

Magic Claw- Regular claw blessed with Magic.
WP- 7
WEv- 20
Other- +2 MA

Mythril Claw- Strong claw used frequently by the royal army.
WP- 10
WEv- 20
Other- +1 PA and +1 Speed

....on to the more powerful ones

Shredder- A devious claw that was used to slaughter thousands.
WP- 16
WEv- 15
Other- +2 PA

Death's Wish- A claw sent from Hell
WP- 15
WEv- 20
Other- Inflicts Death Sentence, Always Undead.

Hashmalum's Pain- Claw given to his most loyal and powerful servant.
WP- 18
WEv- 20
Other- +2 PA and +2 MA, Inflicts Dead, Always Slow, Initial Petrify.

Thats what i've got for claws.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 23, 2008, 09:51:07 pm
Ohh... I like Hashmalum's pain. But normally as a rule in FF, Claws don't give attack power (at least it was that way in FF4...) which is what I'm basing this on... so, the ideas work, if we take away all of the WP dealings. This allows for a bit more... varied technique.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 23, 2008, 09:57:27 pm
Damn guys if you want claws look at FFIX FFS!!!! I POSTED PLENTY OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STRAIGHT OUT OF THE DAMN STRATEGY GUIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 23, 2008, 10:03:03 pm
Well, FF9's claws didn't really... they weren't that attractive to me, I preferred FF4's way of doing it. Which was, the Claws gave no WP, they may have risen Attack, or Mind, they could status, and had Elements on them, so I'm wondering... should I also give monk's Auto Dual Weild, so they can use the Claws, as they were in FF4?
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 23, 2008, 11:41:47 pm
Quote from: "LastingDawn"Well, FF9's claws didn't really... they weren't that attractive to me, I preferred FF4's way of doing it. Which was, the Claws gave no WP, they may have risen Attack, or Mind, they could status, and had Elements on them, so I'm wondering... should I also give monk's Auto Dual Weild, so they can use the Claws, as they were in FF4?

If they can use Claws, then yes, I would say that yes they should use Innate Two Swords/Dual Wield.

HOWEVER, I would only say this should happen IF AND ONLY IF there are two concurrent conditions: Monks lose Martial Arts (and it stays "lost", as in it's not even in their skill set) AND no other weapon can be Dual-Wielded.

Even then, Two Swords is almost as troublesome as Martial Arts when it comes to braindead "broken" set-ups. However, having Claws (good job on the animation there) have 0 WP seems like a set in the right direction and part of Two Swords is broken-ness is that it applies to all weapons that can be Two Swords, not just a class or a specific weapon.

That said, I'm going to suggest five obvious Claws--all of them have 0 WP (if that's possible; otherwise 1 WP shouldn't screw with anything too badly):



...It's funny how that last one started out as a joke until I actually thought about it.

P.S. Those are not meant to be in-game descriptions.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 24, 2008, 01:30:23 am
Aqua Rake, heh. Nice throw back, Poison Claws... don't really seem to pack the... power to find true, use, though if it's combined with another Claw, Poison and Undead... how does that even work? Santa Claws would of course be a rare item, haha! Love the concept though. Talons... bah, cursed Knockback working on only two skills... Bony Claws, very creative! I like it.

Well... Monks and Abralist will both have Two Swords, but of course there is no "equip Claw" and there won't be such a skill as "equip crossbow".
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 24, 2008, 01:56:20 am
Ok, more claw ideas

Dark Whisper (yes i know)- A claw imbuned (wow how do u spell that...) with dark magic.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Dark Holy (spell/animation).

Queklin's Bile- A claw taken straight out of his impure belly.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Inflicts Poison or Death Sentence (100%), Always Poison, Cancels Regen.

(the one above is suicidal)

Velius' Wraith- A claw empowered by Velius' thirst for blood and chaos.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Poison Frog, Always Berserk.

Zalera's Thirst- A claw cursed with the vampiric capabilities of Elmdor and Zalera.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to cast Blood Suck (lol), Always Undead.

Ascension- A claw representing the rise of the Bloody Angel.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to Inflict Faith, Initial Reraise

Chaos- A claw representing the plight of the Arch Angel.
WP- 0
WEv- 20
Other- Chance to Cast Death, Always Protect/Shell.

Are we seriously going to do poles?
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 24, 2008, 10:02:09 am
I'm glad you liked my ideas, LastingDawn.

Thinking about it a bit more, if Monks get the ability to equip Claws, then they should perhaps lose the ability to equip Gauntlets (as long as their PA is slightly boosted to compensate stat-wise).

It's just a thought I had right now.

Quote from: "LastingDawn"Aqua Rake, heh. Nice throw back.

Well, we needed it in there somewhere considering I think it's been Blue Magic in like every game and yet neither of our Blue Mages has it.

QuotePoison Claws... don't really seem to pack the... power to find true, use, though if it's combined with another Claw, Poison and Undead... how does that even work?

Well, you could always just make Claw a one-handed weapon.

With regards to Poison Claws, however, they were meant to be the weakest Claw, especially since they're the most obvious design-wise.

QuoteSanta Claws would of course be a rare item, haha! Love the concept though.

But of course. You have to love puns (unless you're a recovering-Dominic Deegan fan).

Thank Star Ocean 2 for existing combined with the fact that I suddenly remembered that hilariously absurd "Manga Claus" from last year at work where he had a katana on the cover. (I never bothered to read it, though).

QuoteTalons... bah, cursed Knockback working on only two skills....

I thought as much. Oh well.

QuoteBony Claws, very creative! I like it.

It's funny due to the fact that I was thinking of Wolverine initially, but yet I didn't end up putting Regen in there somewhere.

QuoteWell... Monks and Abralist will both have Two Swords, but of course there is no "equip Claw" and there won't be such a skill as "equip crossbow".

Oh, this seems like a great idea then.

(I don't know how I forgot that Arbalist has Innate Two Swords already when that's their whole schtick.)

Quote from: "boomkick"Are we seriously going to do poles?

Probably not since Poles would still have to changed to PA formula and Claws seem like they're enough for now.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 24, 2008, 03:36:08 pm
Cat Claws: 0 PA Chance to sleep

Amphibious Claws: Chance to frog

Fire/Ice/Lightning Claws: Yeah...

Adremelk's Wrath: 0 WP, 10% Evasion, 100% chance to cast Thunder 3 on hit, Add Stop[FF XII!]

Claws of Destruction: Claws born from the hide of Zodiark, it's power destroys the user and his enemy. 30WP, 0% evasion, PA+ 10, MA+ 10, Always Haste, Always Death Sentence, Cancels Zombie[Super suicide claw]

Since these claws have WEv, you think monks should get weapon guard?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 24, 2008, 03:44:21 pm
Well Weapon Guard is in the base class, of all classes now, it's also free. So it's not too much of a large change. As for the ideas...

Why would Cat Claws put to sleep? That one is a bit... iffy...

Amphibious Claws is a pretty interesting idea, come to think of it. Frog is a rare status in Mercenaries. With Invoker's not having anything as such... So it's a good possibility that idea will survive.

Fire/Ice/Lightning Claws, is exactly half of Yang's Weaponry in FF4, not sure about this though..

Claws of Destruction is too powerful, one very strong spell and that's it.

Claws of Adramelk is impossible to make.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 24, 2008, 07:16:29 pm
Well in FFTA Catnip caused berserk so change the cat claws to that
Title:
Post by: The Damned on December 25, 2008, 12:00:46 am
LastingDawn, whenever you get the time to respond to this, I'm curious: Have you also begun deciding on what ideas to use for Monk's Active Abilities?

Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Claws of Destruction: Claws born from the hide of Zodiark, it's power destroys the user and his enemy. 30WP, 0% evasion, PA+ 10, MA+ 10, Always Haste, Always Death Sentence, Cancels Zombie[Super suicide claw]

I'm going to echo a "No way."

Considering it's possible that something blocks Dead will still be around, like an Angel Ring or Judo Outfit, this is literally too good. Even without that, unless you were fighting teleporting archers, at least one person dies on the enemy side and you can always ressurect the claw guy.

Also, Reraise.

QuoteSince these claws have WEv, you think monks should get weapon guard?

They'll have to equip it.

Giving people Innate [Insert Reaction here], unless it's through ASM hacking, makes them unable to equip any other Reactions.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 26, 2008, 01:22:48 pm
In reality, the claws are usually very quick weapons, usually around 5-15 pounds at the most. So their active abilities should be based off the claws they use (i would believe so).

Examples:

Furious Blows- Basically a repeating fist, except they do stable damage, yet very slighty random damage.

Reflect- No its not that magic version of reflect, it basically gives Monk defense and makes him hard to hit.

Ghost Strike- Basically a wave fist, except it attacks one's mana and restores his own.

Radiant Claw- Slashes a far away opponent for high damage, CT and high mana cost. Holy Explosion animation would do.

Bloody Strike- Low damage, yet it steals life from the opponent.

Spire- Crush Punch animation, strikes an enemy 3 panels away.

Whirlwind- Basically a turn punch, except it has a chance to add Don't Act.

Secret Strike- Basically secret fist, except in now does minor damage.

Forced Recuperation- Heals user for some hp, but adds one of many negative status on the user.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on December 26, 2008, 03:23:28 pm
Update on the first post! We have quite a few ideas for Monk skills... which do you fellows think is best? Or which ones is our list missing?
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 28, 2008, 04:06:17 am
Title:
Post by: Archael on December 28, 2008, 11:09:31 am
Boomkick your suggestions kill off any and all creativity it's not even funny

I don't have time to reply to all of those ATM but I'll just say be more open-minded

the balance here won't be the same as in vanilla or 1.3

remember that when calling something overpowered or too good
Title:
Post by: boomkick on December 28, 2008, 11:39:43 am
Yeah im sometimes really critical, but to clear it up i think most of those ideas were really cool.

Quote from: "Voldemort7"Boomkick your suggestions kill off any and all creativity it's not even funny...

O could you clarify, i dont know if im defining your comment the way you want.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on December 29, 2008, 01:08:58 pm
Since claws do NOT increase damage, either the skills do damage or help the claws effects

Rapid strike: Attacks the enemy 2 times, low damage[allows higher percentage on inflicting status]

Grid: Self protect and defend

Chakra: 1 target, 1 range, 0 vert, heals Hp and Mp, near 50% chance to miss

Blades of Fury: The monk spins around, hacking away at anything near the target but the user loses 25% of his health

Fatal Wound: The monk attempts to hit an organ of the target, 0 vert, 5 turn charge, inaccurate, 10% Addle, Don't Move, Don't Act, Death Sentence, Blind

Wind Scar: The monk strikes the wind at such speeds that it slices his target at a range[3 range, single target, wind damage]
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 03, 2009, 03:17:31 pm
Somehow missed this post...


Quote from: "PX_Timefordeath"Since claws do NOT increase damage, either the skills do damage or help the claws effects

That sounds... about right.

QuoteRapid strike: Attacks the enemy 2 times, low damage[allows higher percentage on inflicting status]

Only way to do this is to use one of the MA formulas, which I do not plan to do for Monks.

QuoteGrid: Self protect and defend

I like the idea, but add Shell to it, and we have what Brace is, in FF4, this of course will cost HP, since I don't want them to be using HP.

QuoteChakra: 1 target, 1 range, 0 vert, heals Hp and Mp, near 50% chance to miss

I don't like the idea of That Chakra returning in anyway, How about this... casts Berserk, Regen, and recover's 30% HP?

QuoteBlades of Fury: The monk spins around, hacking away at anything near the target but the user loses 25% of his health

Kind of like a Spin Punch with a cost, eh? Too much like Dark Wave though, unless its just 1 range, around the caster.



QuoteFatal Wound: The monk attempts to hit an organ of the target, 0 vert, 5 turn charge, inaccurate, 10% Addle, Don't Move, Don't Act, Death Sentence, Blind

Set percentages for status aren't possible.

QuoteWind Scar: The monk strikes the wind at such speeds that it slices his target at a range[3 range, single target, wind damage]

So it's Wave Fist with the wind element? Hmm... probably not, in this case. I think I have enough info compiled from you fellows to start working on the actual class abilities, thank you very much! I will update the thread once I bring up the draft of the set.
Title:
Post by: philsov on January 19, 2009, 09:28:22 am
Am I reading this right?

0 WP weaponry inherits the [PA * Br/100] when attacking?  If so, awesome.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 19, 2009, 06:41:10 pm
Hmm... I didn't think of this before but it Has to be that way, I'll need to ask a favor of one of the ASM hackers then.
Title:
Post by: dwib on January 19, 2009, 07:59:16 pm
ok first, boomkick, please reply to ideas you actually have something to say to.
Quote from: "boomkick"
QuoteFire/Ice/Lightning Claws: Yeah...
Yeah...
is such a waste.

anyways, thoughts...
i don't like monks having elemental skills.
Exorcise is a very monk-like skill, although it should crystalize alive undead units as well or else its worthless.
Kick is classic Yang monk, which LD seems to lean towards. definitely a good idea for a range skill.

NEW IDEA : Mantra - monk sacrifices himself to fully heal a teammate
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 19, 2009, 08:35:51 pm
Well, I think he's just expressing his distaste for the Fire/Ice/Lightning Claws, it is a bit generic. Also I think the idea you've mentioned isn't possible Dwib, if so, how do you plan to make it work?
Title:
Post by: boomkick on January 20, 2009, 12:57:39 am
Like dwib said, those elemental claws would just waste space. And since there is limited space, i believe they should not be included (unless something special is going to one of them).

Sorry for my bad comments on the skills, just was in a bad mood at that instance.

Anything else you need LD?
Title:
Post by: dwib on January 20, 2009, 04:58:36 pm
hey, i was in a bad mood at the instance of making my post too lol

also, for the mantra idea, i was thinking you could change the values of the wish/energy formula to take all the users HP, but i appear to be wrong :(
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 20, 2009, 11:03:27 pm
Before I got sick, forgot my purpose, came back to do some work for 1.3, I forget the skillset, I had actually chosen for the Monk, so... only thing to do is review again.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 22, 2009, 10:22:50 am
Alright, new and may I saw probably improved skillset chosen, check first post for details.

Feel free to post your thoughts on changes and recommendations.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on January 22, 2009, 10:49:01 am
Needs a 1 Ranged attack, or Whirlwind (like spin fist) for crowd control or just as another form of defense.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 22, 2009, 08:43:58 pm
Crush Beat in a way... is a 1 ranged attack, just because it's based on MA doesn't make it any less of a one ranged attack.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 22, 2009, 09:53:19 pm
Alright, fixed up a few of the skills, Searing Salvation replaces the (impossible to incorporate) move Meditation, Turning Gust replaces the while classic and aptly named kick, there is no... kick animation to speak of, based on MA.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 22, 2009, 10:38:39 pm
This should be fun since, in theory, claws do next to none damage which translates to no damage skills based on wp. Can't wait to see them do a ludicrous 24 damage endgame.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 22, 2009, 10:43:23 pm
Heh, well I'll use another formula for them all, I assure you they will not be dealing 24 damage endgame.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on January 23, 2009, 12:04:01 am
The skills look good, but any specifics on what the claws will be or that will stay uncertain until a while later?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 23, 2009, 12:23:22 am
I first want to get the skills, since they won't be influenced by the claws, really.
Title:
Post by: boomkick on January 23, 2009, 01:56:28 am
Uhh, new skill.

Furious Gash (or Flash Strike)- (is it possible to make asura's animation do a claw strike animation with it?). It does increased damage in a line. Cross shaped attack range. (If you have ever played Kingdom Hearts 2, then its like that move with sephiroth where the sky turns dark, he stances, and slashes through you, do a uncountable number of hits).
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 23, 2009, 09:07:34 pm
Power Strike: CT 5ct Deals 4x as much damage but inaccurate?(based off Yang's power attack) Maybe add berserk or slow after the attack.
Title:
Post by: spoonman on January 23, 2009, 10:35:48 pm
What'd be cool is a 4x 'power strike' like you said, but has like a 50-75% chance of breaking the weapon or something. Just saying 'cause I hate inaccurate moves.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 23, 2009, 10:39:46 pm
Hmm... while interesting, I don't think that's one very possible, though Chakra is kind of a cop out, so is the idea of Focus for that matter... In FF5, there was a move called "Build-Up" which was basically a charged attack. Of course, what's a better synoym for "Build Up" That's not "Accumulate"?
Title:
Post by: spoonman on January 23, 2009, 10:46:27 pm
Hmm, dunno. Flex Nuts?

Er... How about Empower?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on January 23, 2009, 10:53:18 pm
Empower I think is the name for it in WoTL, well, the name of the Minotaur's Build up Power or whatever it's called. But I guess there's not many choices... Empower's a good idea.
Title:
Post by: spoonman on January 23, 2009, 10:58:04 pm
I remember a Gather Power in the PSX version, which raised PA by 2.

Yeah, I can't really think of any other synonyms that aren't... cheesy.
Title:
Post by: PX_Timefordeath on January 24, 2009, 01:15:59 am
Accrue Force?
Title:
Post by: ArkDelgato on January 25, 2009, 04:03:38 pm
What about a drunken fist style skill that adds confuse (or the animation) and berserk (for the power)
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on February 01, 2009, 03:54:24 pm
I'd say by this point that Monk's have been finished. Their skills just need a slight bit of tweaking to... actually work.
Title:
Post by: NKKCLOUD on March 16, 2009, 05:25:15 pm
Monks are in my opinion the second best job of ALL the game not only their magical and physical equality but also their neverending useful spells that makes fucking good to any battle
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on March 17, 2009, 02:30:44 pm
That's why they've been completely changed, I Hated that about them in Vanilla and 1.3, it was terribly annoying... that's why they have been altered to this amount, being what an FF monk traditionally is, moves taken from FF4,5, and 9 respectively.
Title:
Post by: RamzaBot on April 11, 2009, 07:25:00 pm
I know this is for monks but this idea could be for other classes to.
Kinda like with the charge time, but have amount of uses. Like you can only use this attack once.
Then you either wait 2-3 turns for it to be ready again. Or use like Meditate. (or some other skill) to
Ready it sooner.
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on April 12, 2009, 01:38:13 pm
Eh heh... there's no way to make a spell or skill like that.
Title:
Post by: RamzaBot on April 12, 2009, 03:43:16 pm
I see. Well it was just an idea. So I take it you're just using existing abilities then ?
Just mixing it up ?
Title:
Post by: LastingDawn on April 12, 2009, 05:13:32 pm
Well, it's all we can do. We use what the game's system allows us to. There's no prior coding to what you've mentioned, unless MP itself was limited, in such, to allow for that.
Title:
Post by: RamzaBot on April 14, 2009, 04:52:10 pm
Well I'm just pit balling ideas. I am totally interested in this game. Like hard core. It's been my most expected game. I've been fiending to play it. Even more so than the newer games. I just love the original. Plus I love the ideas you have so far. Makes me remember my childhood as well. Please don't abandon this idea.
Title: Re: Monk Rehaul Job Discussion
Post by: LastingDawn on July 30, 2010, 12:29:09 pm
Resurrection!

This is one that is Sorely in need of abilities. From 8 to 16... oy, I am glad to have this community's assistance with this.
Title: Re: Monk Rehaul Job Discussion
Post by: Gotwald on August 09, 2010, 08:09:26 pm
Like I said on IRC, can the monks have some kind of ability to make themselves innocent? Like, "Purifying vision" where they meditate (charge time) and then for a short period of time (innocent duration) have seen the truth behind life and magic and are immune to the effects.
Title: Re: Monk Rehaul Job Discussion
Post by: LastingDawn on August 22, 2010, 10:25:44 am
Quote from: "Gotwald"Like I said on IRC, can the monks have some kind of ability to make themselves innocent? Like, "Purifying vision" where they meditate (charge time) and then for a short period of time (innocent duration) have seen the truth behind life and magic and are immune to the effects.

Adding Innocent to Meditate might be a good idea. I rather like that.

Also for those who don't like sifting through several different threads, I've added the synergy skillsets for Monk into the first post. Opinion and the like would be appreciated.