Quote"Panthers replaced by Tonberrys"
Other than the sprite being rather meh, I don't really see any problem with replacing panthers.
For PW, I replaced Uribos with Tonberries, and that seemed to work out fairly nicely and it was a smooth transition. I'm surprised he didn't do away with Uribos for 'em too.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 10:19:52 pm
For PW, I replaced Uribos with Tonberries, and that seemed to work out fairly nicely and it was a smooth transition. I'm surprised he didn't do away with Uribos for 'em too.
Yeah, that works much better as a replacement. Uribos are a rare monster (like Tonberries), while Panthers are a much more common one. It affects the game a lot to remove them.
Also: the FFT engine is rather limited. I think the whole endeavour to make a "sorta new FFT fan game" (which is what Voldemort is seemingly doing) is rather pointless.
I hate to say it, but he's walking on ground already walked then. CCP, CoP, and PW already fill that "new FFT fan game" spot without the huge difficulty that a lot of people don't enjoy. So I dunno, I wish he'd scale back to his original goal of making 1.3 a harder/rebalanced FFT. It worked out well for him, and there's no reason to change that now.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 10:52:33 pm
I hate to say it, but he's walking on ground already walked then. CCP, CoP, and PW already fill that "new FFT fan game" spot without the huge difficulty that a lot of people don't enjoy. So I dunno, I wish he'd scale back to his original goal of making 1.3 a harder/rebalanced FFT. It worked out well for him, and there's no reason to change that now.
Well, he's kind of gone insane.
Anyways, if you want to make a "fan FFT game", then I really think we can just make a new indie game. The engine for FFT is very limited in what you can do (compare it to, say Tactics Ogre). I played Ace of Spades, it's alright, but it doesn't seem that hard. As long as you don't violate copyright law, you should be fine.
I dunno, FFT has a lot more variety in its ability/equipment system than, say, TO, unless you mean the PSP version. It also has the most tools and ASM knowledge currently, so it just seems easier to muck around with FFT. Also, Haver, you should come on IRC sometime. :P
OMG, Kage he gave you credit.
Also, wtf panthers? Uribo like you guys said....is the ideal replacement.....both are rare....small....I'm just not feeling it.....derp.
Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-
Quote from: Celdia on December 07, 2011, 11:41:03 pm
Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-
It isn't the old 1.3. It is Arch's own fun patch. Get over it.
Maybe we should start freaking out when CCP, COP or FFH+ get an update ... hm?! Show our fellow members of FFH support rather than Arch.
But on a discussion level ...
I say awesome for PW for the work on Tonberry :D And Worker 8 ... oh my ... don't how know that will pan out.... He is very strong now (more so then before)!
The thing that I dislike most is what happens if someone has an already finished end-game save
He has to start over if he wants a legit worker 8 with items, which sucks (Same thing happened with Onion Knight, Death Knight and White Chocobo)
And if someone used monsters, he has to dismiss all panthers and look for tomberries, otherwise inconsistences in stats may happen
Anyway:
Both ideas are nice (Imho), but the whole Tomberry stuff looks Overpowered and out of place for 1.3 (Or maybe, what 1.3 was meant to be at the beginning)
Worker 8 with item is now usable (Expecially because he can use elixir) unless if still has 12 speed at level 99, because if he does, it's useless (in 1.3 you can stack a lot of +speed items)
Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 04:00:23 am
The thing that I dislike most is what happens if someone has an already finished end-game save
He has to start over if he wants a legit worker 8 with items, which sucks (Same thing happened with Onion Knight, Death Knight and White Chocobo)
And if someone used monsters, he has to dismiss all panthers and look for tomberries, otherwise inconsistences in stats may happen
Anyway:
Both ideas are nice (Imho), but the whole Tomberry stuff looks Overpowered and out of place for 1.3 (Or maybe, what 1.3 was meant to be at the beginning)
Worker 8 with item is now usable (Expecially because he can use elixir) unless if still has 12 speed at level 99, because if he does, it's useless (in 1.3 you can stack a lot of +speed items)
Uh Dome apparently elixir is gone replaced with something hell if I know what it is.
Quote from: GeneralStrife on December 08, 2011, 04:32:17 am
Uh Dome apparently elixir is gone replaced with something hell if I know what it is.
Elixir got removed from the player's arsenal
Can be used only by worker 8 and some enemy unit
Quote from: Celdia on December 07, 2011, 11:41:03 pm
Does this really deserve our attention anymore? -__-
Quote from: dinosaur on December 08, 2011, 12:30:40 am
It isn't the old 1.3. It is Arch's own fun patch. Get over it.
Maybe we should start freaking out when CCP, COP or FFH+ get an update ... hm?! Show our fellow members of FFH support rather than Arch.
>Make annoyed post asking why people keep flipping out over every 1.3 update.
>Completely miss the point, say "Get over it" over something not being said, then reiterate the exact same point as quoted post.
>(http://eveinfo.net/complexes/gf-psy~1.gif)
This makes me realize how mediocre that Tonberry sprite actually turned out though. It looks ridiculous sitting on the Formation Screen next to proper units, even with Twinees' fixes. I think the hood needs to be raised higher instead of having the entire head being revealed, among other things, to fix some of that sprite's awkwardness.
I'll toss another (http://eveinfo.net/complexes/gf-psy~1.gifp) at replacing Panther instead of a rarer monster like the Uribo with Tonberry, though. Glad to see Worker 8 finally got a fucking Item command of his own. Now if he only got Fly, unless he already got that in a previous version and I missed it.
My question about Voldemort's latest release
(http://data.whicdn.com/images/14099474/why_god_why__yotsuba_coloring_by_xcommando-d41o8hb_large.jpg)
Oh, I don't know if any of you knew, but I am working for a few days on a new Tonberry(not really new, just a cleaned up version of the old one, since it was a straight rip), Twinees inspired me to rework Tonberry :P
And I see really nothing wrong with Arch using our sprites, he gives credits, so it is all cool.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 07, 2011, 11:03:47 pm
I dunno, FFT has a lot more variety in its ability/equipment system than, say, TO, unless you mean the PSP version. It also has the most tools and ASM knowledge currently, so it just seems easier to muck around with FFT.
This is what I meant. Compare FFT and TO maps and characters. FFT has much smaller maps, with far fewer amount of characters on them. The limitations of the PS1 are the cause of this, sadly. It also is missing a few cool features (2 player mode for instance). FFT does have a lot of cool things going for it, but in some ways it was a step backwards. This is why we should stop messing with FFT. Let it die.
Make a new game that acts as a spiritual successor, it will give us so much more freedom. As long as it avoids violating copyright law, I see no problem.
Quote
Also, wtf panthers? Uribo like you guys said....is the ideal replacement.....both are rare....small....I'm just not feeling it.....derp.
I asked Voldemort. He replaced Uribos with Cactuars.
There's a Cactuar sprite? Did Jon make it?
To be honest, Arch is making a patch, just like we are. He's messing with the game to do what he thinks is "cool", just like we are. Yes, we've had our disagreements with him before, but he's not here anymore. Why are we even caring what he does to the game? Does it matter if it's not original? Does it matter if it shows a contempt for the player by being difficult? If people on ID are contributing to the project and people on ID want to play it, we should be content.
To be honest, we really aren't much better than ID in making community projects. We have Dome's project (FFT+), Celdia's project (CCP), ETernal's project (PW), and Kokojo's project (CoP). There are testers who give advice/inspiration to mechanics, but few group decisions. There are also "experts" in spriting and ASM who provide their services and point out limitations, but very rarely do they do more than provide advice. Don't give me the BS that people have different viewpoints and thus can never agree (since that implies everyone is also obstinately proud and unyielding), no one on here has seriously tried to make a project where decisions were made as a group.
If 1.3 becomes big again (and by consequence, Arch/ID), why should we be worried? We're not rivals, at least not anymore (especially since nothing really stops you from being a dual member).
Quote from: Havermeyer
Anyways, if you want to make a "fan FFT game", then I really think we can just make a new indie game. The engine for FFT is very limited in what you can do (compare it to, say Tactics Ogre). I played Ace of Spades, it's alright, but it doesn't seem that hard. As long as you don't violate copyright law, you should be fine.
Compare FFT and TO maps and characters. FFT has much smaller maps, with far fewer amount of characters on them. The limitations of the PS1 are the cause of this, sadly. It also is missing a few cool features (2 player mode for instance). FFT does have a lot of cool things going for it, but in some ways it was a step backwards. This is why we should stop messing with FFT. Let it die.
Make a new game that acts as a spiritual successor, it will give us so much more freedom.
Advantages to hacking FFT over PSP LuCT:
Hacking is not stifled by DRM/compression stupidities. As a result, more tools exist and they can go further in depth. This has created operational inertia: we aren't even done with exploring FFT and are best tools are for it, so we have little mental need to leave.
FFT AI > LuCT AI.
PSP and most of its emulators have no debugger, making most hacking difficult (because you have no understanding of what's in a RAM table).
FFT has a cleaner mechanics system. Simple in its core, but difficult to master. LuCT has way too many stats pertaining to one unit, most of which are UNNECESSARY. They also lack sufficient early-game variety, while the late-game gear is all fairly arbitrary. LuCT's system of job innates and skill mastery also offers the player less choice than FFT. I haven't hacked LuCT so I don't know how easy it is to change, but it makes it a harder base to use.
Advantages to LuCT over FFT:
Bigger Map
More Units
Branching Storyline/Better Event Script System
Note that PvP is not an exclusive advantage for LuCT because FFT has debug mode. And really, when you consider that even the PSX version of TO had a bigger map than FFT with more units, this isn't really a PS1 VRAM restriction problem, but an image compression problem. FFT's maps and sprites are done in more detail than TO's; hence, we can't have as many of them. Also, a bigger map means little if your units also move more squares per turn than in FFT. Essentially, all the advantages LuCT has over FFT are things that hackers can resolve; all we need is image compression in FFT and event command rewrites (which Xif is working on).
Advantages of homebrew over hacking:
1) No copyright/DRM issues if done correctly
2) You can use advanced coding languages and translate into MIPS
3) You don't have to worry about hard-coded mechanics or inscrutable code (since you're the one writing it)
4) ROM size problems can be ignored. If we're making a PC port, even RAM size is irrelevant since most modern PCs and laptops have far more usable RAM than the PSX/PSP (and it's highly unlikely we'll even use that much since we're probably not coding a 3D graphics/physics engine).
However, this requires us build EVERYTHING from scratch. Also, a good number of us are actually more proficient in ASM than in C++. In short, we will have to throw away everything FFT did right just to either jump through a legal hoop or to ensure total "freedom" to create a game.
Quote*Branching Storyline/Better Event Script System
Makes me wonder a bit. TO - TKOL didn't really have a branching storyline like the kind in TO - LUCT.
And my only complaint about ID is that their forum is really damn slow and it lags when I scroll up or down.
I think it's great that FFT is still getting love, even if it's via 1.3 or other projects. That can't be said about a ton of games out there that also deserve that attention (I'm looking at you, Lunar series), so- in its own way- FFH has made FFT, well, more timeless than it was before.
If everyone pitched in more FFT would be even more timeless if Mercs and Remix never died. Kokojo never gave up on cop though, and PW we still have to see what happens
QuoteHowever, this requires us build EVERYTHING from scratch.
You know what? Totally fucking worth it.
Quote from: Havermayer on December 08, 2011, 05:37:21 pm
You know what? Totally fucking worth it.
Why reinvent the wheel when you don't have to?
That's what tethical is doing.
ARGH, just caught the context in that. Tethical, or it's single player sucessor, will eventually replace FFT as our flagship mod. At least, I think so.
Voldemort here (yes, its me, if you want proof that its me, ask if I made this post on ID and I will verify that I made this account).
Some people directed me to this post LOL'ing at the fact that its been over a year since I leave and there's STILL whining about 1.3 on here. Seriously? C'mon guys, I am sure you have your own projects and endeavors to worry about now.
I can't believe that its been a year since I left this place and there's STILL people stalking my updates to 1.3 then reporting them here as if it were some sort of sin that I keep working on my project with the ideas and concepts that are worked on at ID.
Yes, I replaced Panthers with Tonberries. Why didn't I pick Uribos? Because I'm eventually replacing those with Cactuars. Why am I going to do that? Because its my project, because I want to, and because I can create good gameplay for them that also promotes balance and re-playability.
QuoteIf 1.3 becomes big again (and by consequence, Arch/ID)
lol. If it gets big again? 1.3 was never "big" on FFH in the first place. 1.3 has had more downloads and more video related views in the past year than in the 2.5 years it was hosted here.
Do you enjoy 1.3? Awesome, then play it! Do you hate the direction I'm taking 1.3 in? Awesome, don't play it!
@ Havermayer / OP / or whatever your name is: A handful of 1.3 haters making a topic here gives me more views / downloads / overall buzz than you can imagine. It does not detract from 1.3, it only helps it grow even more. I know you can't comprehend this, hence this topic with all its stupidity.
It's shit like this and posts like these that lets me be 1000% sure that never working on this site again was the right decision.
@ The hard workers that actually care about the real work being done here instead of creating more drama like FormerDeathCorps: Props to you man. I feel your pain of having to deal with this BS. Mad respect.
People like the OP, instead of contributing to this site, do it a disservice by wanting to start drama. Drama which just wastes your members time on other peoples projects (1.3) and only serves to give 1.3 even MORE attention, instead of helping the projects on FFH. Those are the people who you should be banning, instead of generating free Buzz (thanks) on members that left the site A YEAR AGO.
I have some serious respect for some people on here (including the ones that visit ID and ffh like Twinees and don't let petty shit get in the way of working on what makes them happy).
But this shit is sad to see.
I agree that people should play what they do like, and not what they don't. I'm happy that you decided not to work here on FFH any more, since now you're happy and we're producing a ton more stuff.
I think the problem people are having, Arch, is that 1.3 is so different than it was, say, back at 1.3030, which really tried to stick tride and true to Vanilla. So seeing some of these latest changes... people have to wonder what's going on. It's a very different feel than old 1.3, so people are going to be naturally leery of them. If you are changing what your goals are (which is perfectly fine), what are they now then?
I also welcome you to join us on IRC. I, for one, would enjoy having a one-on-one discussion with you regarding this matter.
Voldemort!
I see you haven't changed a bit! That's...well...whatever
While you are here, can you tell me why I get this error message everytime I try to see ID's forum?
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1792/nuovoimmaginebitmapfy.png)
I sent you a PM on youtube, and also informed BastardPoetry about the matter, but to no avail
Did you ban me for some bullshit reason?
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 08, 2011, 06:20:13 pm
I'm happy that you decided not to work here on FFH any more, since now you're happy and we're producing a ton more stuff.
Looking at the site again, the only thing that has been done in a year is some progress on Tethical, which at this rate, is another dead project in Archives because the manhours that its going to take to finishing it and turning it into a 100% FFT engine clone is bigger than you can imagine. It's cool, but its not an attainable goal and anyone who knows about finishing things knows this is true. I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but think about it for a second.
If Tethical is ever finished, I will donate 500 US$ to FFH. I am this confident that it won't ever happen. You can quote me on that. If you ever finish a full storyline / event hack, I will record all of it and promote it on my Youtube. Again, you can quote me. But I know that it also won't ever happen, because this is like history repeating itself, and ppl doing things as a hobby instead of driving to create a finished product.
About your other projects, it's cool that you have fun working on them, but there is still no finished storyline mods that I can play on this site. FFT+ is a 1.3 clone (there's like 100 of those floating around, no offense). Parted Ways, which I don't see being finished anytime in the next 3 years (again no offense, this is just what I see) and other fun mods like CCP that you can play if you're bored. Kokojo's project is another one that is lightyears away from being done, with no work force in sight bent on finishing it.
It seems that everyone ignores Asmo's sticky about finishing games!
QuoteI think the problem people are having, Arch,
You really have no reason to have a "problem". 1.3 will continue to exist whether people here disagree or not. It's totally irrelevant. You having a problem 1.3's updates is a waste of your own time, and is only serving to help 1.3 grow at this point.
QuoteI think the problem people are having, Arch, is that 1.3 is so different than it was, say, back at 1.3030, which really tried to stick tride and true to Vanilla. So seeing some of these latest changes... people have to wonder what's going on. It's a very different feel than old 1.3, so people are going to be naturally leery of them. If you are changing what your goals are (which is perfectly fine), what are they now then?
This is 1.3's description:
FFT 1.3 is a fan-made modification of the game Final Fantasy Tactics for the Play Station and Play Station Portable gaming systems. There's thousands of minor changes that add up to big differences. Generally speaking, 1.3 increases difficulty, adds new random battles to the world map and Deep Dungeon, improves monsters, and re-balances the skills and items to make the game more fun and challenging.Adding in a few spells or monster sprites won't change that. They are still the same goals. The whole "OMG 1.3 is straying too far from its original goals!! AHHH!" is just an excuse some people are trying to formulate so they can say the mod is worse now than it was before. Untrue. If we're going by popularity, it's bigger now than ever. Bigger than any project here, bigger than 1.3 ever was here.
I'm going off topic. You guys should listen to FDC and the people focused on making things. Not this OP whiner.
QuoteI, for one, would enjoy having a one-on-one discussion with you regarding this matter.
No thanks. I only stopped by to give my sympathies to FDC and people with their eyes open like him. There's nothing to discuss. 1.3 will continue to be updated as I see fit (because I am its editor), and ID will continue to grow. This will hold true regardless of how many projects end up getting canned here, whether they ever had a chance of being finished into something we can play or not.
You seem to be forgetting that CCP and CoP Chapter II are also done, and have become quite popular among certain other communities. Koko and I have begun work on CoP Chapter III, with many fun things in store for it!
Regarding 1.3, by all means, have at the new changes! If that's what you want to do, go for it. That's the point of modding- to craft things as you see fit. But excuse or no, you can't deny that 1.3 has changed quite a bit since 1.3029/1.3030 and that it's likely to draw criticism for it.
As I mentioned above, I don't believe people should play things they don't enjoy. However, people are going to be vocal about why they don't enjoy it. I guess my point is this: 1.3 has changed a lot since it was hosted on FFH, and a lot of the changes seem very random. It's okay to say that you're just changing the game to be more fun or balanced, but people want more than that. A specific reason why you changed such-and-such.
Let's take FFVI Hardtype, for example. At first, there was criticism because I divided magic up more to each character, since in the original, anyone can learn anything. People first thought that it was just a lolchange, and disregarded it. However, when I explained that it was to make each character more unique and distinct, people were better with it.
Ultimately, I don't care what 1.3 does that much because I don't play it. However, those that do/have played it and care... they might want a better explanation than what you're saying. Just my two Gil, is all.
Quote from: Eternal248 on December 08, 2011, 06:46:36 pm
You seem to be forgetting that CCP and CoP Chapter II are also done, and have become quite popular among certain other communities. Koko and I have begun work on CoP Chapter III, with many fun things in store for it!
Uh huh
QuoteI guess my point is this: 1.3 has changed a lot since it was hosted on FFH, and a lot of the changes seem very random. It's okay to say that you're just changing the game to be more fun or balanced, but people want more than that. A specific reason why you changed such-and-such.
You sound like I owe people an explanation, like I must go as a herald to every site that pays attention to 1.3 and explain my changes personally after I make them.
That's not how it works, man.
You want to know why 1.3 receives its recent changes? Go to ID.
But in troll topics like these you certainly won't find answers, only people circle jerking about Voldemort and his mad descent into 1.3 updates, which are apparently so bad that they have caused it to be the biggest FFT mod ever.
That crazy Arch! What will he do now!
Anyway I didn't come here to discuss this pointless crap with you, just to tell FDC that I sympathize.
See you around bros
1)
Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 06:27:17 pm
Voldemort!
I see you haven't changed a bit! That's...well...whatever
While you are here, can you tell me why I get this error message everytime I try to see ID's forum?
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1792/nuovoimmaginebitmapfy.png)
I sent you a PM on youtube, and also informed BastardPoetry about the matter, but to no avail
Did you ban me for some bullshit reason?
2) Popularity =/= Quality
3) That's not the original patch description, you changed it when you left FFH in order to add custom/random stuff to attract more people (Onion/Dark knight, Boco the white chocobo, Marche, etc etc)
4) By your logic, 1.3 is a clone of 1.2 which is a clone of 1.1
P.s: To be honest, I don't think 1.3 it's bad
The only thing that bothers me is that it looks more like a "Arch Class Patch" instead of a rebalancing mod (which always claimed to be)
I'm just curious as to how many of you that are whining about this actually PLAY 1.3? It's a very difficult mod, and I think it's one that not "everyone" can play casually and still have fun with. Looks like a lot of bitching just to bitch. Also, as Celdia said, is it even worth your time to keep making these threads?
I would also like to note, how many times do any of you visit ID and see a thread made mocking some new release to a patch made over here? Zero. (Maybe that's because there's never anything released) We don't spend half our time scanning your forums for shit we can poke at and give random criticism on without playing it. Have you even given the new 1.3 a shot and seen that the new tonberry might actually be a good implementation? I highly doubt it.
Seriously guys. Grow the fuck up. It would be different if he was over here posting shit about it and throwing it in your face, but Voldemort isn't even provoking you in any way anymore.
Get over it.
Dome... 1.1 and 1.2 were super minor WP MP, CT, JP amount, Skillset for Calc changes. Honestly, they're almost insignificant.
Quote from: SerdashI'm just curious as to how many of you that are whining about this actually PLAY 1.3? It's a very difficult mod, and I think it's one that not "everyone" can play casually and still have fun with.
Me, FFMaster, and many others finished ALL 1.3 fights except the "Impossible" ones
We played (And finished) a lot of versions of the patch
Quote from: Serdash(Maybe that's because there's never anything released)
CCP, FFT: Plus, CoP, PW...yeah, nothing released so far
The only thing in which I agree is that this topic wasn't needed, at all
Not saying you -need- to give them an explanation, but it would likely mitigate people thinking they're all just random changes because you felt like it. And, if they are, and you say that, at least it's an explanation.
Do I agree with how Haver went about this thread? Not particularly, but that doesn't mean we all feel as he does. There will always be a few folks who won't like you or your work. Just take it as criticism, and choose whether to act on it or not.
Quote from: Zaen on December 08, 2011, 07:03:47 pm
Dome... 1.1 and 1.2 were super minor WP MP, CT, JP amount, Skillset for Calc changes. Honestly, they're almost insignificant.
1.3 is based on them, like Arch says in 1.3's description, right?
He put a huge amount of work on it to "Turn" 1.2 in 1.3...and I did the same for FFT: Plus
I see no difference, and I don't see why FFT: Plus should be addressed as a 1.3 clone while 1.3 shouldn't be called a 1.2 clone
Quote from: Serdash on December 08, 2011, 07:01:01 pm
I'm just curious as to how many of you that are whining about this actually PLAY 1.3? It's a very difficult mod, and I think it's one that not "everyone" can play casually and still have fun with. Looks like a lot of bitching just to bitch. Also, as Celdia said, is it even worth your time to keep making these threads?
I would also like to note, how many times do any of you visit ID and see a thread made mocking some new release to a patch made over here? Zero. (Maybe that's because there's never anything released) We don't spend half our time scanning your forums for shit we can poke at and give random criticism on without playing it. Have you even given the new 1.3 a shot and seen that the new tonberry might actually be a good implementation? I highly doubt it.
Seriously guys. Grow the fuck up. It would be different if he was over here posting shit about it and throwing it in your face, but Voldemort isn't even provoking you in any way anymore.
Get over it.
And we don't go over to your site post obscenities do we?
Quote from: Voldemort7 on December 08, 2011, 06:11:33 pmYes, I replaced Panthers with Tonberries. Why didn't I pick Uribos? Because I'm eventually replacing those with Cactuars. Why am I going to do that? Because its my project, because I want to, and because I can create good gameplay for them that also promotes balance and re-playability.
I'm just more imagining all the people who are going to load Saving Algus, see 1 Thief, 4-5 Squires, and a goddamn Tonberry and go "WHAT THE FUCK TONBERRY UP MY SHIT D:" without even knowing how strong/weak it is solely because of its rep as a Tonberry. Then again, that's expert player-trolling, good sir. I'm all for some good player-trolling.
I know once upon a time, a guy by the name of Wolfran here was working on a very nice Cactuar sprite by hand and left it half-finished. If you want a nice-looking one (far preferable to an FFTA/2 rip, I find all of them end up looking mediocre for a number of reasons without lots of touchup work), you should probably either bug him to finish it, or see if you can find the half-finished sheet and bug another spriter you know with decent skills to try finishing it. I dunno if Twinees would have time to finish up that thing, though.
Quote from: Voldemort7 on December 08, 2011, 06:11:33 pm@ Havermayer / OP / or whatever your name is: A handful of 1.3 haters making a topic here gives me more views / downloads / overall buzz than you can imagine. It does not detract from 1.3, it only helps it grow even more. I know you can't comprehend this, hence this topic with all its stupidity.
No such thing as bad press, really.
Quote from: Voldemort7 on December 08, 2011, 06:32:52 pmLooking at the site again, the only thing that has been done in a year is some progress on Tethical
Meh. It was very much a tools/hacking based summer. Maybe somebody other than Elric can get to using the rigged-as-hell Event Editor I made and actually make something... at least that boy almost has an entire chapter of original content in what feels like no time at all. Someone knows how to do something!
But in seriousness, why /is/ this a topic?
Also trying to recode FFT into a completely different engine is stupid... and already being done, as pointed out by many with Tethical. Though that project seems to be missing the "Keep it simple, stupid!" element from FFT mechanics-wise that makes basically every design ever better from the bits I've skimmed, so I'm not aboard it's hype-train for now, when I can do everything I want within the confines of the original game.
Quote from: ffta7072 on December 08, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
IIRC, all you did was spam anyway.
YOU. YOU DITCHED ME.
So I just did it myself, eh.
Quote from: ffta7072 on December 08, 2011, 07:12:24 pm
IIRC, all you did was spam anyway.
Way to go with the troll attitude, man
I see you have changed a lot from when you left FFH, right?
I mean: Yes, I "Spammed" a lot, and I still do
I contributed as much as I could, and I also managed to finish a fully playable patch, and release it
And then?
Do you want to prove points just considering who is posting?
Oh hey, Arch posted. I was wondering why this topic exploded.
Could ya'll just, you know, grow up? Water under the bridge? No?
Whatever.
Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 07:07:55 pm
1.3 is based on them, like Arch says in 1.3's description, right?
He put a huge amount of work on it to "Turn" 1.2 in 1.3...and I did the same for FFT: Plus
I see no difference, and I don't see why FFT: Plus should be addressed as a 1.3 clone while 1.3 shouldn't be called a 1.2 clone
The difference is that a 1.3 is based on 1.1 and 1.2, it did not literally take the patch itself and build upon it like FFT+ with 1.3. FFT+ IS LITERALLY 13030 (? or an earlier version) with your own changes added on top of it and exported under a new name. It is literally the actual file with additions you made to it. There's a difference whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
FFT 1.3 took the concepts behind 1.1 and 1.2 (which were actually very simple to implement, as Zaen pointed out) and then continued from there. FFT 1.3 is based on 1.1 and 1.2. It is not a clone of them.
FFT+ is a 1.3 clone, and is in competition with every other 1.3 clone out there (I think 70 or 80 total last time I checked) for the disenfranchised players cut from the 1.3 player base, which is bigger than all of them combined.
FFT+ was dead on arrival because of this. You'll need much more than 1.3 clones to get people to play your project.
If 1.1 and 1.2 was a few months of work, 1.3 is 3-4 years of manhours of work (4 years as of 1.3.0.4). So yes, your project is just another uninspired clone. I'm surprised you haven't realized all of this by now, Dome.
Quote from: Voldemort7 on December 08, 2011, 07:19:54 pm
The difference is that a 1.3 is based on 1.1 and 1.2, it did not literally take the patch itself and build upon it like FFT+ with 1.3. FFT+ IS LITERALLY 13030 with your own changes added on top of it and exported under a new name. It is literally the actual file with additions you made to it. There's a difference whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
FFT 1.3 took the concepts behind 1.1 and 1.2 (which were actually very simple to implement, as Zaen pointed out) and then continued from there. FFT 1.3 is based on 1.1 and 1.2. It is not a clone of them.
FFT+ is a 1.3 clone, and is in competition with every other 1.3 clone out there (I think 70 or 80 total last time I checked) for the disenfranchised 1.3 player base, which is bigger than all of them combined.
FFT+ was dead on arrival because of this. You'll need much more than 1.3 clones to get people to play your project.
One simple question: Have you ever played FFT: Plus?
Sorry FFTA, I accidentally edited your post instead of quoting it like I thought I had. I deleted it since I don't recall exactly what you posted, so I don't want to put words in your mouth. Also, FFTA, why do you have a second account? You were never banned.
Anyways, I think we can all agree that people should play what they like and not play what they don't. I made an analogy earlier on IRC: sometimes a woman looks terrible in something, but you shouldn't say anything about it anyways. I think that kind of applies here.
And Dome, you are not banned from ID
If you can't access the site it is because my host has decided to block whatever IP or ISP you're using, for some reason
Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 07:16:40 pm
Way to go with the troll attitude, man
I see you have changed a lot from when you left FFH, right?
I mean: Yes, I "Spammed" a lot, and I still do
I contributed as much as I could, and I also managed to finish a fully playable patch, and release it
And then?
Do you want to prove points based on the one who posts them?
Hell yeah I've changed. Why would I want to be part of this counter productive cult?
I'm sick of this. insanely derpy hasn't mentioned FFH in the last 6 or 7 months. In fact, I completely forgot about the "place." Stop embarrassing yourself. I see the same five people on this thread that I expected to see.
Especially eternal with his "intelligent gibberish" that really isn't helping your case.
Also, I lol'd at the "me and Kokojo are working on call of power....all the fun changes!" or w/e. I'm sure you meant koko? I don't consider changing names of items and pressing the pretty little arrow keys on patcher work on a large patch like that. IMO, it is minor. IIRC, that's all you could do, considering pride was the only reason your patch that I don't even know the name of tbh (Lack of...completion).
Don't comment on completed patches that get more publicity than all of your completed patches combined if you're going to hate.
On second thought, I hope you do, so I can have another laugh.
Also, for some reason password wasn't working.
Quote from: Dome on December 08, 2011, 07:21:00 pm
One simple question: Have you ever played FFT: Plus?
Yeah, and when I open it in an editing program, I can see every change from 13030 I myself personally made to those files, with your crap added on top
You have no shame, and people who know about 1.3 know this about FFT+
1.3 Clone FTW
The only post in this thread that has truely bashed 1.3 and ID has been the OP, and you guys have taken it personal and brought your posse to come here and piss on our site. Cause of one post. My 2 cents. We have already stated the opinion of the OP is not that of the whole site. With your logic arch 1.3 is a FFH clone because you used the tools from this site. You took the ideas and criticism from this site, you started it on this site etc.
You're excactly right, other than the fact that the tools don't belong to you.
I guess 1.3 is a joe davidson clone?
Open source tools (created by joe davidson) are OPEN SOURCE - not owned by you. Nor are they owned by arch.
That statement was truly ignorant man.
Quote from: Voldemort7 on December 08, 2011, 07:32:00 pm
Yeah, and when I open it in an editing program, I can see every change from 13030 I myself personally made to those files, with your crap added on top
You have no shame, and people who know about 1.3 know this about FFT+
1.3 Clone FTW
Of course you see what you did, I started FFT: Plus using 1.3 as a base, and I never tried to hide that
Btw, I don't think you have played FFT: Plus
1) Speed stack is almost impossible in FFT: Plus (No 20 speed hasted freaks like in 1.3)
2) Monster in FFT: Plus are not overshadowed by generics (Which happens in 1.3...I still need to see someone use a generic monster in the DD instead of a generic/special human unit without being penalized)
3) Spells are useable at every level, the same cannot be said for 1.3 (Because of the huge speed numbers that units can get...you are forced to use Short charge, limiting the options of spellcasters)
4) Defense and healing is useful in FFT: Plus, because it's impossible to make uber-damaging buillds (Which, again, is possible in 1.3)
5) With the whole "No rare poach, Every unit has the same growths" people can focus more on fighting and less on building "Perfect" units / harvesting to get good stuff
6) FFT: Plus does not punish you if you level, like 1.3 does
Also, I never said that I wouldn't add custom stuff into FFT: Plus, like you did, only to later add custom stuff to draw the people's attention
Permission to spam thread as it's fell into pointless drama?
Quote from: GeneralStrife on December 08, 2011, 07:37:38 pm
With your logic arch 1.3 is a FFH clone because you used the tools from this site. You took the ideas and criticism from this site, you started it on this site etc.
FFH is not a patch. It is not the files that I created for 1.3. I get ideas and criticism from insanelyderpy's community now. Does that mean they are the ones who work on 1.3 and make it possible? No.
Ideas and criticism can come from
anywhere. That does not mean the work belongs to you.
For your information, FFTPatcher was created by a guy called Joe Davidson AKA Melonhead. FFTPatcher is not the property of FFH. Melonhead has zero problems with 1.3 being created using his tools.
I can't even believe this argument is being presented, this is a waste of my time at this point
@ FDC: I'm so sorry man
Also, Bill gates, Steve jobs (deceased) get MILLIONS of requests, criticisms, feedback.
Does this make Microsoft Windows property of your neighbor who gave a very good idea to microsoft? No. He could go make his own Operating system with his idea though, making it his.
Bill gates gives credit, but does he say, "this is yours!"
EDIT:
Arch posted before me. Didn't notice.
ITT: Everybody's mad?
This is really, really dumb.
I'm locking this silly topic. If you wish to continue this, please join #FFHS on esper.net.